SureFire EB1 Backup 200 Lumen Flashlight

[tobrien]

So if I want an L1 style interface, I need the tactical E1B right?

 

[Robin24k]

Yes, the tactical versional has a two-stage switch.

If so , how many lux does it put out from 1 meter ?

I've measured 12,000cd with a LFP123A.

I appreciate your hard work so thank you. The old E1B was 90 percent after 1 hour. Look at is now with the new EB1. I don't understand why from a professional viewpoint you don't think this is pathetic compared to the E1B? If I wanted a light that was going to start to decline fast after 30 min I don't need to pay top dollar for a Surefire. Flat regulation is also a sign of a quality in my book.

It's a tradeoff between output and runtime, which doesn't any bearing on quality. It's not hard to make flat regulation, but then you'll see practical problems such as short runtimes and excessive heat production. Avoiding these issues should be a sign of quality, not the other way around.

I wish Surefire would chime in on this.
Has anyone called them and ask whether on not this to be true to them ??

At this point, I don't see any issue with the runtime.

 

[djdawg]

Thanks for the quick answer ..........I,d probably be one to get one of these anyway and judge for myself.
I like hearing others thoughts all the same .......... seeings how Iam far from being any light guru myself .....LOL

 

[doctordun]

I've heard that the backup with the rear flange will be available for pre-orders by mid December.
Has anyone heard about the tactical? I would think that it would be later if Surefire is fulfilling contracts first.

 

[Viking]

I've measured 12,000cd with a LFP123A.

wov... That's awesome.
Thank you once again , I really appreciate it.

 

[brianna]

The Surefire E1B had excellent run time and regulation without producing excessive heat. The EB1 looks like zero regulation. The fast downhill slide looks like they are just relying on the battery to maintain voltage.

 

[270winchester]

The Surefire E1B had excellent run time and regulation without producing excessive heat. The EB1 looks like zero regulation. The fast downhill slide looks like they are just relying on the battery to maintain voltage.

It's a tradeoff between output and runtime, which doesn't any bearing on quality. It's not hard to make flat regulation, but then you'll see practical problems such as short runtimes and excessive heat production. Avoiding these issues should be a sign of quality, not the other way around.


At this point, I don't see any issue with the runtime.

I agree with Robin. Show me a 1 cell 200 lumen TIR light with flat regulation for 1 hour on the market.

I'll be buying one, for sure, whenever they get them to the dealers.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

I only own Surefire so this is not a bash. I am mad and frustrated to have waited 5 years to see Surefire come out with the EB1. This light is a inferior upgrade to the awesome E1B. Crap regulation, no real run time improvement, and my gosh at least they could have used a more recent emitter.
So now I (or the rest of us) will have to wait another 5 years and hope the next model actually has flat regulation, and a significant lumen and run time improvement. If I was spending $50 for this light I would expect this. However at over $200 I expect flat regulation, not a cliff dive.

I don't think you're alone in those observations but since it is a SF we'll be assured that this is not yet another case of yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices. Isn't the XP-E sort of a poor man's version of the XP-G? As Cree says: 'XP-E HEW [High-Efficiency White] is designed to enable faster adoption of LED in cost-sensitive, consumer lighting products.'

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...odules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXPEHEW.pdf

The new EB1 emitter does seem to be brighter for a few minutes than the E1B but the E1B runtime plot shows that SF can do nice regulation when they want to. That wheel has already been invented and the regulation on high on the EB1 with 'current sag' seems to me to be a step backward.

Brasso showed me how to use the RCR123 in his beloved L1 and it rocks, seems almost as bright as an L2. Wonder if the RCR123 will work well in the EB1 since it can produce more current than the primary? I'll be happy to try it if I get an EB1 but after seeing the runtime plots I'm not too anxious to be an early adopter.

Looks like Robin24k's light was in some sort of milspec poly pak rather than a retail blister card or box. I assume it is a review item from the initial military production run.

I bought a couple of E1B's on eBay a while back and they had a similar packaging with NSN numbers and cage codes, made me wonder about their provenance. Were they extras from a contract run or comshaw (naval parlance for 'it fell off a truck')?

 

[kyhunter1]

The EB1 without good output regulation is not for me. I will wait till somebody sells cheap on the market place, and then have it modded. For now, my old E1B, and E1B lego with a VME/M31N more than meets my needs.

 

[brianna]

I don't think you're alone in those observations but since it is a SF we'll be assured that this is not yet another case of yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices. Isn't the XP-E sort of a poor man's version of the XP-G? As Cree says: 'XP-E HEW [High-Efficiency White] is designed to enable faster adoption of LED in cost-sensitive, consumer lighting products.'

Wow my feelings for surefire are going down the toilet. Poor regulation and a LED intended for cheap lights. Problem is this is not a cheap light.

 

[Glock 22]

For Robin24k, What about trying a RCR123 in it and see what the graph would look like? Since your EB1 is a review sample. Try it and see if it will work. I'm sure other members would be curious to know as well.

 

[Robin24k]

I don't think you're alone in those observations but since it is a SF we'll be assured that this is not yet another case of yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices. Isn't the XP-E sort of a poor man's version of the XP-G? As Cree says: 'XP-E HEW [High-Efficiency White] is designed to enable faster adoption of LED in cost-sensitive, consumer lighting products.'

Not necessarily. Larger LED dies require larger optics, and for an XM-L, the optic will be 1.5" wide. The EB1's bezel is already wider than the E1B's, which tapers off in the front, so that is probably why SureFire had to use the XP-E. It would be better to sacrifice strict regulation rather than size of the light or the beam pattern.

For Robin24k, What about trying a RCR123 in it and see what the graph would look like? Since your EB1 is a review sample. Try it and see if it will work. I'm sure other members would be curious to know as well.

I don't use loose lithium-ion cells...all I've got are LFP123A's.

 

[Glock 22]

I don't use loose lithium-ion cells...all I've got are LFP123A's.

So has any of your test been done with Primary CR123a batteries?

 

[Robin24k]

Sorry, I meant that the only rechargeable 123A's I have are LFP123A's. Lithium primary tests were done with SF123A's.

 

[Glock 22]

Sorry, I meant that the only rechargeable 123A's I have are LFP123A's. Lithium primary tests were done with SF123A's.

That's what I thought, I just wanted to know for sure. Thanks.:thumbsup:

 

[brianna]

Not necessarily. Larger LED dies require larger optics, and for an XM-L, the optic will be 1.5" wide. The EB1's bezel is already wider than the E1B's, which tapers off in the front, so that is probably why SureFire had to use the XP-E. It would be better to sacrifice strict regulation rather than size of the light or the beam pattern.

I do not agree with that at all. It is never a good idea to sacrifice regulation in a premium quality light. Beam pattern should never be sacrificed either. If this means size has to be bigger then so be it. I really want this light to stay the current size, but if it means a sacrifice in those areas then make it bigger. Let us not forget, this is not a cheap Chinese light. Sacrifices are unacceptable for a light in this price range.

 

[Robin24k]

Engineering is all about tradeoffs, and nothing comes without some sort of tradeoff.

If this means size has to be bigger then so be it.

That's where the issue is. Remember, this is the EB1 Backup, and SureFire's marketing materials tout the fact that it's a compact backup light source. If it's too big, it's becomes tactical-sized.

The EB1 is not designed to be a duty light, so strict regulation is not that critical. If you want both high-output and strict regulation, you need something larger that uses multiple 123A's or a lithium-ion battery, not a single-cell backup light.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Engineering is all about tradeoffs, and nothing comes without some sort of tradeoff.

And like I said, maybe we're expecting too much in a $220 MSRP single cell LED light from SF.

But I would suggest that the performance would be considered disappointing if an XP-E light was issued at this price point in 2012 by another manufacturer.

There do seem to be many XP-G lights in the 200 lumen range including the low end SF's.

The XP-E, introduced back in Fall of 2008, is a update of the venerable XR-E with the same die size of 3.45 mm squared I believe. Perhaps the lower price and smaller die size dictated the use of the XP-E to avoid an optic redesign and help keep the price increase to only $60 over the E1B.

 

[Glock 22]

There do seem to be many XP-G lights in the 200 lumen range including the low end SF's.

Take the Malkoff M31 in the cool tint it's around 230 lumens. And you get that output from a single CR123a, plus it's an XP-G led.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Take the Malkoff M31 in the cool tint it's around 230 lumens. And you get that output from a single CR123a, plus it's an XP-G led.

Got one in my hand with a VME head on a SF E1E body. Runs great on an AW RCR123. A little top heavy, I should put a Z68 tailcap on it to keep it from tumbling off my fingertips. Only one mode, great beam but not quite as tight a hotspot as an E1B since it is a reflector instead of TIR. And the whole combination is made in the USA.