Is anyone else interested in incandescent because of the lack of blue spectrum that is even in warm LEDs?

[ST Dog]

Strictly speaking, cars are for the rich, or at least upper middle class. They're a bum deal. It's a shame we forced them on people by decimating public transit, along with suburbanization. Big mistake. I never owned a car.

Says much about where you've lived. Urban life is very different than rural life.

Public transit will never be viable in rural communities, where houses are miles apart. EVs won't be practical there or for long distances until you can stop somewhere with 10% charge and leave in 5 minutes with 100% charge. That's either a very fast charger (which rural power systems don't support) or a common form factor swappable battery.

And they need to be affordable. They don't buy a new $30k vehicle every 2-3 years. They buy used $5k vehicles and use them for a decade (Ignoring the 20+ year old farm trucks)

Forcing EVs on everyone before then is the problem. No one forced ICE on people. It evolved over time, spreading as it became cheaper/more effective than horses for larger populations.

 

[DaveTheDude]

What is the reason for omitting the blue light from a medical light ?

Blue light delivers more energy per photon than other colors. For folks with retina damage or disease, blue light can exacerbate the underlying condition, and perhaps contribute to permanent retina damage. This is to be avoided. When a first responder or other medical professional is examining a patient's pupil, the emitter is usually located close to the eye, so an emitter that eliminates the blue part of the color spectrum helps prevent damage to the retina and macula, and avoid the eye conditions that can develop. These conditions are generally irreversible. Treatments can only delay vision impairments or improve vision to only some extent and stop these eye conditions from worsening.

So, no blue light into the eyes.

 

[jtr1962]

Says much about where you've lived. Urban life is very different than rural life.

No kidding but the vast majority of people in the US live in either urban or suburban areas. Rural is under 1/6 of the population at this point.

Public transit will never be viable in rural communities, where houses are miles apart. EVs won't be practical there or for long distances until you can stop somewhere with 10% charge and leave in 5 minutes with 100% charge. That's either a very fast charger (which rural power systems don't support) or a common form factor swappable battery.

I never said otherwise. A subway train in rural Montana is just as ridiculous as an SUV in Manhattan. The mode should be matched to the area. The big mistake was decimating public transit in areas where it was used and viable, then trying to shoehorn cars in. That's mostly cities and inner ring suburbs, not rural areas.

There's also a third alternative to make EVs viable in rural areas-enough range so you don't have to worry about charging for the vast majority of trips you make. Somewhere in the range of 500 to 1,000 miles would probably cut it. The idea is to have enough range for about as far as most people feel like driving in a day. At that point, you'll be putting up in a motel at night, and can slow charge at medium rates which the rural grid will support.

It also doesn't matter as much if rural areas stick with ICEs for the foreseeable future. ICEs cause most of their harm when used in large numbers near population centers. That's also the use case most amenable to EVs.

And they need to be affordable. They don't buy a new $30k vehicle every 2-3 years. They buy used $5k vehicles and use them for a decade (Ignoring the 20+ year old farm trucks).

I don't disagree. Cars in general are far too expensive for what they are, whether EV or ICE. We really need more sub $10K vehicles.

Forcing EVs on everyone before then is the problem. No one forced ICE on people. It evolved over time, spreading as it became cheaper/more effective than horses for larger populations.

Nobody is forcing EVs on anyone. Last I checked there are no government mandates which say you won't be allowed to drive an ICE on public roads by some date. The goals for ending the sale of new ICEs by some date are at best moving targets. They'll be moved forwards or backwards, depending upon the state of technology, sales numbers, the number of public chargers, plus other factors.

The irony here though is that until recently ICEs were in fact forced on people. What if someone wanted an EV 50 years ago? Even 20 years ago? They had no real options. Now we're at least giving people a choice.

 

[Monocrom]

Here's the single biggest issue with EVs, today:

Population of NYC = Just under 8.5 Million people.
Outdoor charging stations = Roughly 7,500*

*That includes two cities located nearby in New Jersey.

If you live in an apartment, your ONLY way to charge your EV is to use an outdoor charging station. EVs, for the masses (those who live in apartment buildings) as of right now, as a viable option; is a laughable joke! It truly is. What's available now in terms of charging infrastructure is beyond pathetic. Hybrid technology makes far more sense. But bizarrely is not being promoted over the sad, impractical, joke that is EV technology for the masses.

 

[alpg88]

I had a hybrid, it did not save me on gas, it was actually worse in the winter than regular cars I had, yes the engine worked half the time, but it was an inefficient engine, not nearly as efficient as GDI engine my regular cars had, in the winter it had to work nonstop cuz the heater ran off cooling system, i ended up filling it more often than i did regular 4 cyl cars. It was not a plug in hybrid, but for those that live in apartments it would not do any good cuz you still had to charge it like an electric.

 

[jtr1962]

Here's the single biggest issue with EVs, today:

Population of NYC = Just under 8.5 Million people.
Outdoor charging stations = Roughly 7,500*

*That includes two cities located nearby in New Jersey.

If you live in an apartment, your ONLY way to charge your EV is to use an outdoor charging station. EVs, for the masses (those who live in apartment buildings) as of right now, as a viable option; is a laughable joke! It truly is. What's available now in terms of charging infrastructure is beyond pathetic. Hybrid technology makes far more sense. But bizarrely is not being promoted over the sad, impractical, joke that is EV technology for the masses.

They make sense now more for fleet vehicles which can recharge at their home base at night. I see lots of Amazon's new electric vans.

For apartment buildings with indoor parking there will probably be charging stations.

If you happen to drive to work outside the city, many suburban office parks are already installing charging stations.

If you park curbside and work in the city, for now you're probably SOL.

There is one EV that's very practical right now in NYC. That's e-bikes, or even electric mopeds. Those recharge from any regular outlet.

 

[ST Dog]

The big mistake was decimating public transit in areas where it was used and viable, then trying to shoehorn cars in. That's mostly cities and inner ring suburbs, not rural areas.

That was because people preferred the autonomy. So They chose personal vehicles over public transport. There was no desire to build or maintain public systems.

There's also a third alternative to make EVs viable in rural areas-enough range so you don't have to worry about charging for the vast majority of trips you make.

But you till have to maintain a full charge all the time. I can get in my ICE and drive. If I need gas in 20 miles so be it. Stop and 5 minutes later I'm going again. But with an EV I better maintain a much larger range before I start or I'll be searching for a charger and have to wait a long time to continue (or make lots of shorter stops). I might only make one trip a week or not know with much advance. So that means keeping the EV charged for those unexpected trips, vs grabbing the 5 gal can of gas that I have for other equipment (of course they want to outlaw that too. Yet most electric mowers won't run for 2-3 hours)

Nobody is forcing EVs on anyone. Last I checked there are no government mandates which say you won't be allowed to drive an ICE on public roads by some date. The goals for ending the sale of new ICEs by some date are at best moving targets. They'll be moved forwards or backwards, depending upon the state of technology, sales numbers, the number of public chargers, plus other factors.

But they are trying to. Sure they may keep moving the target date, but it's still looming and manufacturers are not putting much into ICE because of it. And it'll double down on the trend of expensive to maintain vehicles with dozens of modules the average person can't replace and shops can't diagnose.

Of course the manufacturers are going broke with EVs too, even with heavy government subsidies to encourage buyers.

Much like they did with incandescent bulbs. I bought CFL and LED when they made sense for me. Then the government started forcing it. But I have a few applications where I'd much prefer a incan yet the government says no, you can't have those anymore. Several stores here don't carry any incan bulbs, or only some small, niche application bulbs.

 

[ST Dog]

Here's the single biggest issue with EVs, today:
...
If you live in an apartment, your ONLY way to charge your EV is to use an outdoor charging station.

That's not a problem you see. In the city you don't need the autonomy of a vehicle. Just use public transportation.

 

[Monocrom]

They make sense now more for fleet vehicles which can recharge at their home base at night. I see lots of Amazon's new electric vans.

For apartment buildings with indoor parking there will probably be charging stations.

If you happen to drive to work outside the city, many suburban office parks are already installing charging stations.

If you park curbside and work in the city, for now you're probably SOL.

There is one EV that's very practical right now in NYC. That's e-bikes, or even electric mopeds. Those recharge from any regular outlet.

I don't see them being promoted for fleet owners. Just average citizens.

There aren't any NOW. That's the important thing to remember. Plus, if they were installed, those rent prices are getting horribly jacked-up. Oh, and the tenent is paying for the installation out of his own pocket. Plus, gets zero compensation if he moves out. But.... the vast majority of apartment buildings in NYC have no garaged parking spots for residents. Can't have a charging station installed when no spot exists.

It's STILL not enough. Plus, I'm not going on a camping trip outside of the city. I'm talking about using EVs as daily transportation to and from work within city limits. The numbers don't lie. If EVs were being promoted for the masses by mental patients inside of Bellevue, it would be understandable. Instead we have major NYC politicians (including our idiot mayor) doing the promoting. 8.5 million vs. 7,500 is a joke that no one can tell with a straight face.

Not just, for now. Unfortunately, unlike the City's bicycle program, there currently exists ZERO building projects to put up more outdoor Fast Charging stations. That "for now" is realistically going to be for the next two decades.

How many e-bikes and e-mopeds have we seen on YouTube Vent with flame. Giving off toxic gases from the exploding batteries. Not even remotely practical! I'm glad that many of us came together and convinced Raggie to get a gasoline-powered method of conveyance over the e-scooter he initially asked about. Plus, even if they weren't horrendously dangerous and toxic to the environment, it's just not practical to expect overweight, or physically handicapped, or elderly people to use such e-vehicles to get to work or get around.

The nonsense with promoting EVs for the masses needs to stop, and a heavy emphasis on promoting hybrids (not plug-in hybrids) needs to start.

 

[Monocrom]

That's not a problem you see. In the city you don't need the autonomy of a vehicle. Just use public transportation.

Even in NYC, the vast majority of our neighborhoods have horrendously awful and very much lacking public transportation.

 

[jtr1962]

How many e-bikes and e-mopeds have we seen on YouTube Vent with flame. Giving off toxic gases from the exploding batteries. Not even remotely practical! I'm glad that many of us came together and convinced Raggie to get a gasoline-powered method of conveyance over the e-scooter he initially asked about. Plus, even if they weren't horrendously dangerous and toxic to the environment, it's just not practical to expect overweight, or physically handicapped, or elderly people to use such e-vehicles to get to work or get around.

You've been on CPF long enough to know LiFePO4 batteries solve that problem. EVs are transitioning to them. The e-bike industry needs a little push in that direction too.

I had a gasoline bike motor about 30 years ago. I sent it back for a full refund after about a month. Too noisy, too smelly, not much torque, plus refilling was decidedly way less convenient than just plugging it in at home. Way more expensive per mile, too. They didn't have e-bikes then, so that ended my brief experiment with motorized bikes.

I know e-bikes won't work for everyone. But they could work for many of those who drive mostly in the city.

 

[jtr1962]

That was because people preferred the autonomy. So They chose personal vehicles over public transport. There was no desire to build or maintain public systems.

What about those who couldn't afford vehicles? Or those who didn't have the ability or desire to drive? They were left high and dry. To say people preferred the autonomy is a loaded statement. There was a lot of push by the automobile and oil industries to get rid of public transit so as to force car ownership on people. Remember when cars first started being mass-produced for many they were a solution in search of a problem. Telling people to own one so they could drive in the country on weekends wasn't all that compelling. They had to figure out a way to make cars necessary for daily life. They did, with the government's help.

But you till have to maintain a full charge all the time. I can get in my ICE and drive. If I need gas in 20 miles so be it. Stop and 5 minutes later I'm going again. But with an EV I better maintain a much larger range before I start or I'll be searching for a charger and have to wait a long time to continue (or make lots of shorter stops). I might only make one trip a week or not know with much advance. So that means keeping the EV charged for those unexpected trips, vs grabbing the 5 gal can of gas that I have for other equipment (of course they want to outlaw that too. Yet most electric mowers won't run for 2-3 hours).

For sure EVs change how you deal with "refueling". The most sensible way is to just top it off whenever you can. That way you avoid needing to sit for a while charging a fully depleted battery. Go shopping? If they have a charger plug it in while you shop. No wasted time just waiting to charge. Doesn't matter how much charge you get. The idea is to replace some of those miles you used in whatever time you spend shopping. Get home? Plug it in. Even if you use it later, you add some miles. The model of run until almost empty, then refill, makes EV use more painful than it needs to be. Treat the car like many treat their phones, basically topping them off whenever they're near a power source.

But they are trying to. Sure they may keep moving the target date, but it's still looming and manufacturers are not putting much into ICE because of it. And it'll double down on the trend of expensive to maintain vehicles with dozens of modules the average person can't replace and shops can't diagnose.

Two things. Gas cars are starting to have those expensive modules, too. And ICE is a mature technology. Not much the automakers can do to make it better. Also, and don't quote me on this, I suspect much of the ICE tooling automakers invested in is nearing end of life. It's nearly fully depreciated. They're not going to invest in another round of tooling which they'll need to utilize fully for a generation when they see ICE demand softening, even without mandates. It's just dollars and sense. Is anyone building an incandescent lamp factory these days? Same line of reasoning.

Much like they did with incandescent bulbs. I bought CFL and LED when they made sense for me. Then the government started forcing it. But I have a few applications where I'd much prefer a incan yet the government says no, you can't have those anymore. Several stores here don't carry any incan bulbs, or only some small, niche application bulbs.

You'll be able to find incans on eBay for a long time to come. Besides, even you said you want them for niche applications. Big companies don't bother with niche stuff. Never did, never will. Now the money for them is making LEDs. If they made a niche line of incans, you would probably be paying $10 a bulb. That's why they're not selling them. Won't get enough customers at a price they can make a profit on.

 

[aznsx]

Thread title interested me, so... Hard to believe this thread started as a discussion of optical spectra. Now it's just a continuation of some EV thread at the Cafe ... again ... as if there weren't enough of those already

 

[jtr1962]

Thread title interested me, so... Hard to believe this thread started as a discussion of optical spectra. Now it's just a continuation of some EV thread at the Cafe ... again ... as if there weren't enough of those already

Because a few people took a simple analogy I made comparing EV adoption to LED adoption, got triggered, and had to write a thesis on it. I really had no idea that sentence was going to push the thread in this direction, or I wouldn't have even bothered. Like you said, it's not like we don't already have enough EV threads. At least this thread stayed mostly on track for while.

 

[ST Dog]

Even in NYC, the vast majority of our neighborhoods have horrendously awful and very much lacking public transportation.

Maybe my sarcasm wasn't clear …

 

[ST Dog]

Gas cars are starting to have those expensive modules, too.

I said that. They double down on that trend with EVs. Already see it happening.

And ICE is a mature technology. Not much the automakers can do to make it better.

That was claimed in the 70's too. And on through the 2000s.

Shoot of we went back to the more basic vehicles of the 70s and 80 we'd increase fuel efficiency a lot. I'd love to see a 1980 econo box with a modern engine. Not overloaded with all the options that are now standard equipment (power seats, windows, door locks, infotainment systems, etc). I had two carbureted '81 vehicles that got 35-40 MPG. Today we have cars that weight 50-100% more with similar efficiency.

You'll be able to find incans on eBay for a long time to come. Besides, even you said you want them for niche applications.

A few, often of questionable quality, like so many old stock items. I bought a few, turns out they weren't what was claimed. One was remarked 60W bulbs. Another lasted a month.

My point was having choice not government dictates. I also won't replace my toilet because of government dictates (and I want it to clear waste without flushing 3 times).

 

[jtr1962]

A few, often of questionable quality, like so many old stock items. I bought a few, turns out they weren't what was claimed. One was remarked 60W bulbs. Another lasted a month.

My point was having choice not government dictates. I also won't replace my toilet because of government dictates (and I want it to clear waste without flushing 3 times).

I'm going to refrain from discussing cars any further in this thread. On the above, free market capitalism causes as many or more choices to disappear than government dictates. Eventually it's just not profitable to make stuff any more when the market for it becomes too small. That would have eventually happened with incans sooner or later. Maybe some of the government mandates sped it up by a few years. Hard to tell. Repealing them won't result in a flood of new incans on the market.

BTW, incan quality was going downhill even 10 or 15 years ago. I used to replace one bulb at least each month in the dining room chandelier, despite the fact it was only on a few tens of hours per month. I was so thrilled once candelabra base LEDs finally become available. Still using the same bulbs like 8 years later.

You can't really buy a new CRT TV or monitor these days. AFAIK, there were no government mandates to get rid of them. Free market. Something better came out, people wanted it, the old stuff became obsolete. It sucks if you liked the old stuff better.

 

[aznsx]

Because a few people took a simple analogy I made comparing EV adoption to LED adoption, got triggered, and had to write a thesis on it. I really had no idea that sentence was going to push the thread in this direction, or I wouldn't have even bothered. Like you said, it's not like we don't already have enough EV threads. At least this thread stayed mostly on track for while.

No worries, jtr. These things happen. Besides, you're a sparky guy, so you can't be all bad;-)

Just to work in a cheap transportation joke myself:

I think that issue may have become a 'third rail' topic around here

 

[jtr1962]

To be sure I'm not the first, or won't be the last, person here to derail a thread. Oops, there's another transportation joke! So many threads lately have been going off on a million tangents it's making my head spin! Oops again! Tangent is railway parlance for a straight track.

 

[ST Dog]

BTW, incan quality was going downhill even 10 or 15 years ago.

Doesn't match my experience. Prior to the ban on 100W bulbs in 2011 they lasted as long as the ones I was using in the 80s.

And while you can buy them on eBay it's technically illegal to sell them in the USA as of Aug 1, 2023.

You can't really buy a new CRT TV or monitor these days. AFAIK, there were no government mandates to get rid of them. Free market. Something better came out, people wanted it, the old stuff became obsolete. It sucks if you liked the old stuff better.

Better is quite debatable. Cheap sure. Smaller footprint. Less power/heat.
But dim low res screens with crap viewing angles were a huge downgrade versus what CRTs could do in the 90s. 1200 lines was quite common in monitors in the the late 90s. And that was mostly limitations of the graphics cards driving them, not the CRT. Many of us that were used to 17"+ monitors at 1600x1200 and higher hated the switch to lower resolution LCD/LED panels.

OLED is finally getting back to what we had 30 years earlier.