"Pre-Release" Lights Discussion

[lightlover]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Forgive my Saturday cheery disposition ...

"Dear CPF members who may have received pre-production models. While we acknowledge that some of these units made it into the retail stream, we would like to remedy this regrettable situation. If you believe you are in possession of a pre-production Armytek flashlight that you bought through one of our retailers, please PM me. I'll ask for specifics to confirm and then promise to make the situation right for you."...

Sounds ever-so-sweetly reasonable to me.

(andrewnewman, from this point on, I'll think of you as a Politician! Or even a Lawyer ... Or maybe: BOTH!)

 

[andrewnewman]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Sounds ever-so-sweetly reasonable to me.

(andrewnewman, from this point on, I'll think of you as a Politician! Or even a Lawyer ... Or maybe: BOTH!)

Hah! I'm an IT Architect. My only goal here is a "win win" for Armytek and the good folks here on CPF (and flashlight enthusiasts elsewhere)....

 

[ArmyTek]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Forgive my Saturday cheery disposition and desire to help Armytek. Even if they admit to selling pre-production models through retailers (and despite the convincing but circumstantial additional evidence), it doesn't necessarily mean that it's SOP.

Hey Armytek! You out there? Please try to rehabilitate yourself. I'll help. Below is a paragraph you are welcome to borrow as your own if you wish:

"Dear CPF members who may have received pre-production models. While we acknowledge that some of these units made it into the retail stream, we would like to remedy this regrettable situation. If you believe you are in possession of a pre-production Armytek flashlight that you bought through one of our retailers, please PM me. I'll ask for specifics to confirm and then promise to make the situation right for you."

After confirmation, Armytek could easily send out the proper production run flashlight. Doubt it would bankrupt them.

Nobody is hiding, don`t worry And it will be better if we will answer to each other respectively.
In manuals we write that we have a right to change specifications without notifications.
The world changes and everything is improving day by day.

 

[andrewnewman]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Nobody is hiding, don`t worry And it will be better if we will answer to each other respectively.
In manuals we write that we have a right to change specifications without notifications.
The world changes and everything is improving day by day.

I assume you meant "respectfully" in your initial smilly-laden sentence. I mean all due respect. I indicated I was trying to help. I actually enjoy your products but I fear you aren't doing your brand much of a service on this thread. I get it. You can change the UI. Olight did it with the S1 (to mixed reviews). Mecarmy did it with the PT16 (to almost universal acclaim). What people believe you did was ship pre-production products. Their evidence is that the lights came from your retailers without instructions and the feature set was lacking features in the online documentation. (Also your admission that a pre-production batch was shipped to retailers in the first post of this broken out thread)

So... with all due respect, if there is truth to this, I am proposing that Armytek take this opportunity to publicly make it right. If this is a mischaracterization of what transpired, I am proposing Armytek correct the record and work directly with those who feel that they didn't get what they ordered. Respectfully.

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

What people believe you did was ship pre-production products. Their evidence is that the lights came from your retailers without instructions and the feature set was lacking features in the online documentation.

My lastest light an A1 Prime standard came without instructions. So that's 4 lights now without. 3 of them are lacking features shown within online documentation. So does this mean the Tiara and Primes are also pre-production products as well? Hold on there is more! The switch is white not yellow as shown online for the standard. That must be proof mine are pre-production as well........ If so it's a bit late into the product life cycle for that. :laughing: However my last light did have an off centered LED which fortunately given the nature of the reflector has zero impact on field use. But still that is two off centered LEDs out of a population of 5. Something for them to work harder on the future. But on the flip side the tint on the Prime standard was spectacular! I mean just wonderful and the build seemed solid. Time will tell however really it was purchased because of being on sale and I really wanted the tail cap and body.

Mostly posting in the thread as have the world's worst tooth infection. On painkillers and antibiotics looking forward to a root canal. Need something to take my mind off it. LOL!

 

[scs]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

My lastest light an A1 Prime standard came without instructions. So that's 4 lights now without. 3 of them are lacking features shown within online documentation. So does this mean the Tiara and Primes are also pre-production products as well? Hold on there is more! The switch is white not yellow as shown online for the standard. That must be proof mine are pre-production as well........ If so it's a bit late into the product life cycle for that. :laughing: However my last light did have an off centered LED which fortunately given the nature of the reflector has zero impact on field use. But still that is two off centered LEDs out of a population of 5. Something for them to work harder on the future. But on the flip side the tint on the Prime standard was spectacular! I mean just wonderful and the build seemed solid. Time will tell however really it was purchased because of being on sale and I really wanted the tail cap and body.

Mostly posting in the thread as have the world's worst tooth infection. On painkillers and antibiotics looking forward to a root canal. Need something to take my mind off it. LOL!

Make sure to rid of all the infection. Coworker of relative had infection in jaw bone after implants. Did not end well because of a late diagnosis.

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Make sure to rid of all the infection. Coworker of relative had infection in jaw bone after implants. Did not end well because of a late diagnosis.

Thanks brother! I took xrays yesterday and they seen it. Going to kill the infection first then do the root canal. Sucks!!!!

 

[michael33]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Hello, with my tiny post count and my newbie-knowledge I might not be the right to judge, but even after 14 days of flashaholic-infection and trying to circle down on a Tiara A1 I felt that most of the posts I read in this thread made me constantly nodd. I had a week-long conversation with AT to get simple info on why the pro needs battery-chemistry indication and the non-pro not, although I was assured that I can use unprotected batteries. After a few days I felt that maybe this post would explain it, but I never got the answer from AT, instead, every email - as direct as I was asking - was answered with something different. Tautology here we come. Politeness made me stop further elaborating on this issue with Sandra. I then tried to understand if I could get a pre-V3 as I was told that this would have the new XP-L (that´s the better one, right?). Apparently, some CPF-members got it. AT told me I need to enquire in the forum (are there two divisions?), but never got replies to PM. Now nkon.nl told me, they had v2 with XP-L already as "new" v2. So for a new enthusiast this all seems not like "Canadian" engineering but more like foxconn-chaos-management. And it´s a real pitty as the A1 seems to fulfil all my needs and I could convice 3 friends to get the same lamp (yeah, I did all the research and they just pay

On that note:
With all you experts....how mature these pre-releases would be...now reading about all these little hick-ups quality-wise in the past I´d rather not be the beta-tester for the v3. On the other hand, if it is scheduled for date X and I purchase a few just before that, I would be bummed...

Some info and honest answers appreciated. Should I go with v2 or v3 or try to get the mysterious "new" v2? I can absolutely live with a nicely dried-aged V2

Thanks!
peter

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

The pros don't really need battery chemistry indication to operate. I don't use it for my Tiara A1 as that negates the opportunity to use primary AAs in the field if my lithium ions run down. However if I was running unprotected lithium ion I would use it. Not sure I would run unprotected in a not pro Tiara as how would it know not to over discharge the battery being 1xAA based? That said it could run not protected lithium ion but it would be a good idea to charge them before it goes into flrefly final mode aka almost totally rundown.

Also don't use the indication on my Prime A2 or C1 pro. They come selected for 2XAA and 1XCR123 from the factory and for now will leave it there. Not sure if the battery state indicator means anything. My A2 just ran down the batteries and kept flashing green till the bitter end however never really paid attention to that.

 

[michael33]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

I totally agree with you, of course I would only run protected ones, but the point is that it would be much more transparent for customers if I new what´s going on in the torch and then decide myself what is best rather than left puzzled that a more expensive model needs indication and the cheaper not, but apparently can still go with all chemistries...

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

I totally agree with you, of course I would only run protected ones, but the point is that it would be much more transparent for customers if I new what´s going on in the torch and then decide myself what is best rather than left puzzled that a more expensive model needs indication and the cheaper not, but apparently can still go with all chemistries...

If you had the pro you could safely run not protected because it won't over discharge the battery. So yes the standard can run naked but you might risk over discharging the battery IMO. So that's the difference near as I can tell but Armytek does a poor job explaining this unless I am mistaken. I just did a field testing review video for these lights as purchased 3 of them. Will post it ASAP once the write up is done. Based on my use I would recommend the Standard.

 

[michael33]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

If you had the pro you could safely run not protected because it won't over discharge the battery. So yes the standard can run naked but you might risk over discharging the battery IMO. So that's the difference near as I can tell but Armytek does a poor job explaining this unless I am mistaken. I just did a field testing review video for these lights as purchased 3 of them. Will post it ASAP once the write up is done. Based on my use I would recommend the Standard.

Again, you are completely right. Armytek, though, says I could run unprotected ones in the standard model, what to my knowledge is a risky statement, having read quite a few posts on the Tiara.

Anyhow, I will try ignore the shitty marketing, order some protected 14500 and have fun - with a standard by the way, as I also think it´s superiour for my purposes: all the amenities of the pro, but simpler as no strobe mode.

On a different note: anyone knows if there are GITD o-rings available for the Tiara that I can put in?

Thanks!

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

I had great luck with Keep power 14500 for my A1 Tiara Pro and Prime (standard). Good protected AA sized lithium ion at a good price. Illumination supply has them.

 

[scs]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Bykfixer, I'm responding here to your post in the Armytek Postage thread so as not to further derail the OP. Do note that the dealer and the customer did NOT know they had received and purchased so called pre-release models. Armytek came out and confessed they were pre-release models. Their words. Pre-release models are not earlier versions in a series of versions, like V1, V2, and so on. Pre-release models are UNDOCUMENTED versions. Their specs match no set of specs published on AT's or the dealer's site and no manual AT uploads. The customer was misled because the product he received did not match the description on AT's site at the time of purchase nor that on the seller's site, which was just copied and from AT's site. I don't understand how you believe this is not a problem.

 

[coffeecup66]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

Could this be a case of knocking down "Straw Men" ... ?


link removed

Cheers.

 

[michael33]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

HI Woods Walker, this might sound like a blow prom the past, but due to recent issues still of importance to me:

I had some problems with a non-pro where every time I used Li-O and had the flashlight on for a while, the PCB kicked in. Now, that is generally a nice feature of the battery, but I would prefer that the lamp would step down one power level rather than triggering the PCB.

However, I really wonder how the Tiara (both models as I would leave the primary cell mode for versatility reasons on my pro, too) should distinguish whether it is a NiMH or primary where it should decrease power at, say, 1.2V, and a Li-O where this should happen at say 3.6V. Otherwise it is obvious that the Tiara (non pro always, pro version only if selected primary cells) will always go from high mode or any mode to complete darkness without warning if used with Li-O - simply because the electronics will not start stepping down before reaching, say, 0.8V for the sake of an example, which will always be far below the PCB-trigger point.

ps: I refer to this post for the voltage of my Keeppower 14500, where the PCB will kick it at 2.8 or 2.5V (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Keeppower-18650-3400mAh-(Black)).

Am I wrong? (let´s hope it and the flashlight is broken)

Michael

 

[Woods Walker]

Re: Prime / Prime Pro. Every Day Carry Lights.

HI Woods Walker, this might sound like a blow prom the past, but due to recent issues still of importance to me:

I had some problems with a non-pro where every time I used Li-O and had the flashlight on for a while, the PCB kicked in. Now, that is generally a nice feature of the battery, but I would prefer that the lamp would step down one power level rather than triggering the PCB.

However, I really wonder how the Tiara (both models as I would leave the primary cell mode for versatility reasons on my pro, too) should distinguish whether it is a NiMH or primary where it should decrease power at, say, 1.2V, and a Li-O where this should happen at say 3.6V. Otherwise it is obvious that the Tiara (non pro always, pro version only if selected primary cells) will always go from high mode or any mode to complete darkness without warning if used with Li-O - simply because the electronics will not start stepping down before reaching, say, 0.8V for the sake of an example, which will always be far below the PCB-trigger point.

ps: I refer to this post for the voltage of my Keeppower 14500, where the PCB will kick it at 2.8 or 2.5V (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Keeppower-18650-3400mAh-(Black)).

Am I wrong? (let´s hope it and the flashlight is broken)

Michael

The pro version can be set for Lithium ion however doing so will take it off line in terms of running 1XAA until reset for it. I can test what happens if the Pro is set for lithium ion as it runs down.