Mistaken for a terrorist

Last night around 11PM I was walking with my Fivemega Mini-HID through the large plaza of a huge entertainment complex composed of several low travertine-faced buildings surrounded by tall high rises. I was surreptitiously shining it all around by holding it down by my side and angling it up at buildings or having it half-inserted into my coat sleeve. I walked up the wide steps to the upper level of the plaza which was almost devoid of people, blithely shining that amazing bluish light in all directions, sweeping the beam across a hundred yards of concrete plaza dotted with manicured shrubbery, and up the sides of buildings, occasionally oscillating the light rapidly to produce a poor man's laser show on the light colored travertine building walls. I was lost in Flashaholic bliss.

Suddenly I became aware of a presence in back of me, I turned and there was a uniformed security man scowling at me, his right fist wrapped around a billy club or baton at his side. The following isn't quite verbatim but is close.

"Excuse me Sir, was that you shining that light all around?"

Yes it was, I was trying out my new light

"What is that?" (moving closer)
It's just a flashlight

"Why were you shining it at all these buildings, like you were checking them out; what are you doing here?"

(Now he's right on top of me looking aggressive but not quite knowing what to make of me)

It's a tiny HID light, you know, like those bright blue car headlights. (He looks at the Mini-HID, a silver colored truncated D size Mag 6 7/8" long with a Night Ize clip, looking like no other light he'd ever seen)

"Why are you shining a bright light at these buildings and at those windows high up like you're inspecting them, what're you doing?"

(It suddenly dawns on me that I'm under suspicion, not as a common criminal but most likely as some sort of terrorist-related individual. This place is VERY terrorism conscious and has trebled their private security force since 9/11, and of course the recent Boston terrorism scare didn't help things at all)

Look officer, (I called him that purposely even though he wasn't an LEO) I'm a member of a group that tests high-tech lights for the military and law enforcement community (I laid it on really thick) and I was testing this light to see how far it would throw and remain bright. Here- try it. (I pushed the light toward him and I could see that he wanted to take it, was actually fascinated by it even though I had turned it off but he gently pushed it away). I remained genuinely pleasant and friendly throughout and we eventually started talking. I asked him if he had thought I was some kind of terrorist

"You got to be careful these days".

I asked what lights his company supplied (None!) and commiserated with him having to stand around in the cold while others went home to warm apartments. He turned out to be a nice guy and we joked around and eventually said good night. Just before we parted I said

So is it OK if I do a little light testing from time to time?

"Sir, you know I can't say yes to that"

Yeah, I know. Goodnight

"Have a good one".


Brightnorm

Those kind of stories make me feel bad.
I work in the private security sector, and hear horror stories all the time about security guards overstepping their bounds or harrassing people. This story doesn't sound too bad, as it seems the security guard was fairly "nice". But the fact that he approached you with a weapon (baton) drawn in his hand is unacceptable. Here, in Canada, this could easily constitute assault or in the least intimidation (up to 5yrs in jail).
The stricter laws here ususally keep MOST security guards in check.
You have to remember that you are a law abiding citizen and you have your rights. No one can take them away from you, and anyone that does is comitting an offense.
My father was harrassed here by the US Embassy security when he was taking photos of a building NEXT to the embassy from across the street! No need to say he got pretty furious.
I have had a few encounters myself, but knowing the laws and my rights I find that they tend to back right off as soon as they realize you know more than them about what they can and can't do.
I have actually gotten away with beating a security guard sensless because he got it into his head that he is above and beyond the law and better than the people he works to protect. This was followed by him getting fired and a written letter of apology from his employer.

bottom line - KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!

The guard wasn't actually "brandishing" the baton but had it gripped in his hand by his side. I'm pretty good about defending my rights but I felt guilty in this case because I knew that my behavior constituted an "annoyance" even if it wasn't technically illegal. (though it may have been)

Thanks for the information

Brightnorm

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif ...let's just say I just censored myself as I was going underground with my post... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Glad you're allright brighthorn.

This was handled really well. The guard was obviously concerned even if he was not as well informed as all of the people here and brightnorm was levelheaded and showed great judgement.

I would suggest one thing....brightnorm...take a light that you don't use and give it to the poor guy. Maybe give him the URL to the CPF website.

Just a thought.

Now that sounds like a good idea. The bloke was probley just bored.

Don't sneak around and act like you're trying to hide something and you'll be fine.

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/589/

Mark

@ Minjin
Yep. It's amazing what people can get away with if they act like they're not doing anything wrong. Nobody gives them a second thought... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I'm not that way though, and it has paid off on more than one occasion.

Having worked both security (briefly) and law enforcement (9 years), the work is often about spotting the unusual and investigating it. The "suspect" is often a bit put out, but that can't be helped. It can be made a pleasant interaction once the officer has determined nothing illegal is happening, as in the example above.

Also, I will discreetly put a gun in my hand if I think I might be dealing with a real criminal and I can't see his hands.

I like the idea of giving the guy a cheap flashlight. From now on I'll walk around with a couple of those $1.00 keychain lights in my pocket as giveaways. I've given out several dozen of them to friends and colleagues.

Brightnotm

[ QUOTE ]
Lightraven said:
Having worked both security (briefly) and law enforcement (9 years), the work is often about spotting the unusual and investigating it. The "suspect" is often a bit put out, but that can't be helped. It can be made a pleasant interaction once the officer has determined nothing illegal is happening, as in the example above.

Also, I will discreetly put a gun in my hand if I think I might be dealing with a real criminal and I can't see his hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also have to admit that when I used to work as a security guard and approached a potentially (in my mind, at least) dangerous situation/person I would have a weapon on the ready, although usually not drawn (but it would take me 0.5 sec to draw and hit the assailant).
According to the laws here, technically for a private citizen (which security guards are) to draw a weapon of any sort is only justified if it is determined reasonable in the course of self defense.
I found that being polite and curteous and projecting a non threatening attitude will save yourself from an altercation in most cases, becuase when ego and testosterone come into play "reaonable" goes straight out the window. That being said, there are always hard-heads out there that need their place shown to them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

If you ever feel mistreated by security or police always ask them to ID themselves (which they must do, with the exception of unlicensed security) and file a complaint with their employer.

Yesterday, one of my second line supervisors was interviewing a subject based on a citizen's call. When he decided to arrest the subject, the subject went Hannibal Lecter on him and bit him several times on the arm, drawing blood. Pretty nasty.

The bad guy was later caught and is now being charged with a felony assault instead of a no-jail/no-fine misdemeanor that he was committing. Incidentally, the subject continued to resist, spit and even break a handcuff but was never even roughed up by our guys.

I think you handled the situation very well by just being honest with the guy and not getting angry. I will be honest in turn and say that I can completely, 150% understand where he was coming from. You can never be too careful these days, and who knows why someone would be shining a high-powered light up at buildings late at night. It is plausible that a terrorist - or even just a common burglar - could be doing this to scope things out. I agree with what lightraven said. The security guy's job was to look for the unusual, and a guy shining lights around late at night probably is somewhat unusual. (Hey, not everyone is a flashaholic!) Yes, you have rights and you really weren't doing anything wrong - but come on, think about how it *could* look to someone - especially in an area that you said is very terrorist-conscious. My point is that I think the both of you handled it well.

[ QUOTE ]
shifty646 said:I have actually gotten away with beating a security guard sensless because he got it into his head that he is above and beyond the law and better than the people he works to protect. This was followed by him getting fired and a written letter of apology from his employer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good grief! What did the poor guy do that you had to get away with beating him senseless?

I use to use a hand held spot light to read addresses delivering newspapers. Lets just say the folks and cops werent too pleased about a guy driving in circles shining a few million candle powers into peoples homes from the street.

[ QUOTE ]
flashlight_widow said:
Good grief! What did the poor guy do that you had to get away with beating him senseless?

[/ QUOTE ]

That "poor guy" comitted a number of offences which I could have charged him such as false arrest, assault, defamation of character, and probably a few more if I had gotten my lawyer involved. My actions would have been acquitted had it gotten to the court level as they would have been justified as self defense.
The story goes something like that: I walked out of a store which had a uniformed security guard standing at the exit. As I walk out the EAS alarm goes off (those bars that beep at exit). Now, everyone knows that those things often go off for no reason, they are easily set off by umbrellas, pagers, cell phones, and a number of other things. The guard was one of those big tough guys that think they own the world, and I myself am not a "big" guy being just 5'9". I was in a hurry so I ignored it, knowing full well that I didn't steal anything. As I the alarm goes off the security guard immideatly started heading in my direction and said "Sir", by that time I was already out of the store. He followed me outside and yelled at me again "Sir, exuse me". I chose to ignore that and kept on walking. The guard caught up to me and grabbed my shoulder from behind quite firmly. I immidietly stopped turned around while twisting his arm off and pushed him back, a standard (i think)defensive move. I asked him "What the hell do you think you're doing?"
He then said "OK, buddy. You're gonna have to come with me" and advanced towards me. I backed off and said "I'm not going anywhere. You better **** off or I'll call the cops and harge you with assault." at which he smirked dismissively and rushed me. It all happened very quickly. Basically he tried to take me down, it ended up with him being flipped and a few well delivered blows to his face. I then turned him on his stomach and hand cuffed him. He managed to get a good hit on me so my eyebrow split open , which I think saved me from being arrested at the scene.
The police had arrived at the scene shortly after at which point I told them the story. I explained that I didn't wish to press any charges. We were both treated at the scene by paramedics.
I don't know if I would have been able to get away with it that easily had I not had my PI licence on me.

Now, I know you're going to say I could have been nicer and more co-operative. I could have. But I didn't have to be.
The security guard did break the law, he overstepped his bounds and assaulted me. He violated my rights as a citizen and a human being and I defended myself, which is also my right. At no point before the altercation did I violate any of his rights. Only thing that I violated was his big and fragile ego.

Don't you think you baited the security guard into using more drastic actions? Had you stopped at the door when the alarm went off you would not have had to use your superior ego to stop a man that was doing his job. He couldn't have predicted what you were going to do. You, on the other hand, knew what you were going to do.

I would have praised the poor security guard for doing his job and not running away. Instead you beat up the guy and got him fired.

[ QUOTE ]
shifty646 said:
[ QUOTE ]
flashlight_widow said:
Good grief! What did the poor guy do that you had to get away with beating him senseless?

[/ QUOTE ]

That "poor guy" comitted a number of offences which I could have charged him such as false arrest, assault, defamation of character, and probably a few more if I had gotten my lawyer involved. My actions would have been acquitted had it gotten to the court level as they would have been justified as self defense.
The story goes something like that: I walked out of a store which had a uniformed security guard standing at the exit. As I walk out the EAS alarm goes off (those bars that beep at exit). Now, everyone knows that those things often go off for no reason, they are easily set off by umbrellas, pagers, cell phones, and a number of other things. The guard was one of those big tough guys that think they own the world, and I myself am not a "big" guy being just 5'9". I was in a hurry so I ignored it, knowing full well that I didn't steal anything. As I the alarm goes off the security guard immideatly started heading in my direction and said "Sir", by that time I was already out of the store. He followed me outside and yelled at me again "Sir, exuse me". I chose to ignore that and kept on walking. The guard caught up to me and grabbed my shoulder from behind quite firmly. I immidietly stopped turned around while twisting his arm off and pushed him back, a standard (i think)defensive move. I asked him "What the hell do you think you're doing?"
He then said "OK, buddy. You're gonna have to come with me" and advanced towards me. I backed off and said "I'm not going anywhere. You better **** off or I'll call the cops and harge you with assault." at which he smirked dismissively and rushed me. It all happened very quickly. Basically he tried to take me down, it ended up with him being flipped and a few well delivered blows to his face. I then turned him on his stomach and hand cuffed him. He managed to get a good hit on me so my eyebrow split open , which I think saved me from being arrested at the scene.
The police had arrived at the scene shortly after at which point I told them the story. I explained that I didn't wish to press any charges. We were both treated at the scene by paramedics.
I don't know if I would have been able to get away with it that easily had I not had my PI licence on me.

Now, I know you're going to say I could have been nicer and more co-operative. I could have. But I didn't have to be.
The security guard did break the law, he overstepped his bounds and assaulted me. He violated my rights as a citizen and a human being and I defended myself, which is also my right. At no point before the altercation did I violate any of his rights. Only thing that I violated was his big and fragile ego.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with Haveblue. How is the Guard suppose to know you're not stealing something. Even only hearing your side of the story, I don't see why the guard was even fired. He grabbed you by the shoulder because you ignored his command to stop several times. The alarm did go off afterall. It's his job to check that you're not stealing. Looks like you intentionally took this minor confrontation and made it into a big one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ QUOTE ]
brightnorm said:
Look officer, (I called him that purposely even though he wasn't an LEO) I'm a member of a group that tests high-tech lights for the military and law enforcement community (I laid it on really thick) and I was testing this light to see how far it would throw and remain bright. Here- try it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious, how many LEO or security guard types do we have here that would have actually bought that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think that would depend on who was selling.
Calm confidence can go a long way at times.
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

wear day-glo vest when next testing, look here...

people automatically assume you are not hiding anything, when you are so visible....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1389496,00.html




Stuart