Possible new multi cell Li-Ion Universal Balanced charger setup

Alin10123 said:

But it's not because of the charger. It's because of user error, not the charger.

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Alin10123 said:

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This thread was started by Luxluthor in order to find a safe way to charge lithium cells.

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In the case that started all this (Norm's thread) it may well have been user error, but it was an error that was far too easy to make on this charger.

And that isn't the only safety issue with this charger – a serious problem with it is that a user will assume it is safe to charge cells in series using this charger. It is NOT safe, and it is misleading to say or imply that it is. There is no safe balancing of cell voltages when cells are charged in series on this charger. The potential for imbalance is what makes it inherently unsafe. It should have been withdrawn from sale at once when this was pointed out.

DM51 said:

In the case that started all this (Norm's thread) it may well have been user error, but it was an error that was far too easy to make on this charger.

And that isn't the only safety issue with this charger – a serious problem with it is that a user will assume it is safe to charge cells in series using this charger. It is NOT safe, and it is misleading to say or imply that it is. There is no safe balancing of cell voltages when cells are charged in series on this charger. The potential for imbalance is what makes it inherently unsafe. It should have been withdrawn from sale at once when this was pointed out.

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I am not implying that it's safe to charge unmismatched cells. There is a warning in the thread as well near the top of the buy thread to make sure that the cells are well matched.

Originally Posted by Alin10123
I've actually got one in the works that's coming up here shortly. Just a few quick specs.

-Able to charge 1-6 lithiums at a time (with balance charging capability)
-Can charge 1-14 nimh/nicd cells at a time
-lead acid batteries can be charged
-charging rate of .1-5A
-discharge rate of .1-2A
-charge/discharge cycles 1-5
-10 different memory storage options so that you can program in custom packs.
-Can hook up via USB to the computer (optional)

Price should be well under $100. It would be very well under $100 depending on the amount of interest.

Thoughts?

alin10123
I am certainly interested in the possibility on your new charger, I have many chargers including both your Multi-current, to my Triton. I find no significant danger in using your charger as long as people read the instructions, warnings, and follow common sense. Some people on this site are like the government. I need information, not editorials on how they are going to protect me from myself. Let the idiots blow themselves up..Morons are not my responsibility. If I only engaged in totally safe activities, I would never leave my home. I guess I should sell my motorcycle.

Attacking alin10123 to me is pompous. I am interested in new solutions.

cy said:

I totally disagree with your attempt to trivialize the safety aspect of your "smart" charger.

when you've come to this thread promoting your sale of a new charger. your track record for selling a charger that's questionable after safety issues is pointed out of course comes out.

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What failed? What is the safety issue? The only thing I remember reading about is that some guy blew up a cell by charging one cell with the charger set for 2. Is there a new safety problem with this charger?

Am I to read the above posts correctly? Alin10123 is being bashed because he sells a charger that does exactly what it says it will do? User error is just that. USER error. My truck does absolutely nothing to prevent me from steering into oncoming traffic. If I do, I can't sue GM for building a truck that doesn't prevent me from driving into oncoming traffic.
There are plenty of instructions / warnings (from what I've read) outlining hazards involved with this charger.
If anyone has a bone to pick with Alin10123 regarding the lithium charger involved in the "incident", do it elsewhere. It is off topic in this thread.
The subject is "Possible new multi cell Li-Ion Universal Balanced charger setup". The charger involved in the incident was neither New, nor Balancing.

Lex's suggestion of a 4 cell "universal" cradle for the 4 cell balancing charger is nice. We would have to confirm that it did the proper connecting when it sensed a cell in the cradle. The Hyperion requires different wiring arrangement for 2 or 3 or 5 cell pack.
The power supply, balancing charger, and cradle would be a great solution for most needs. Just plug in a 5 pin plug from the cradle to the charger and you're off to the races!
I might get 4 individual cell holders and wire them up using my 'auto-switching " idea to see if it works as I think it should.

JimmyM said:

The charger involved in the incident was neither New, nor Balancing.

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That it was not a balancing charger is precisely the point. It is unsafe to charge Li-Ions in series if they are not balanced. That is the whole point of this thread, and it is YOU who are off topic for trying to defend the sale of a charger which is inherently unsafe.

DM51 said:

and it is YOU who are off topic for trying to defend the sale of a charger which is inherently unsafe.

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Give me a break. I'm done with this. There is just no explaining personal responsibility to some folks.

Soooooo. Any constructive contribution from those of us here to discuss a Universal balancing charger/cradle?

I will soon receive some of AW's new protected C's. Until I learn better, I plan to charge 'em one at a time, with my Schulze charger. I have read all over these forums about charging li-ions, but I still feel I am in need of more education.

So far, all I have done with my Schulze is use FM's AA adapters for 6 and 12 nimh's. It is great for this.

I have read through all of these threads and have a couple of questions about charging li-ions, especially from those of you who are adept using the Schulze charger.

1. I am reading in these forums that it is best to charge 2 or more li-ions in parallel. Should I even consider charging, say 2, in serial? If I were to do so, I plan to with 2 like cells as best as I can and monitor like all get-out. What do you think?
2. Is there some easy way that I can charge 2 or more li-ion C's in parallel with my Schulze? Is there some easy to make "cradle" using ordinary household materials, or at least a few items from a hardware store? I must confess, alas, that I am not good at all at engineering and making things.
3. Should I wait for a possible new li-ion charger that has been discussed?

Are there other thoughts that you would like to share?

Thanks!

Here are some comments on this.

Tom

Tom: Thanks for the link. I posted pretty close to when you did. Your comments are most appreciated.

Hello Zehnmm,

You can use a variation of Cy's charging clamp to charge cells in parallel. You simply have a bar instead of his single cell contacts. It is a bit of a trick to get more than 2 cells lined up, but with minimal gymnastics, I can usually manage 3 cells. I usually only charge 2 at a time.

If you have cells that have been discharged together in the same application, you can series charge them. If you select the Li-Ion charge setting on the Schulze, they will be charged to 4.1 volts. You can then check them to see if they are balanced, and change your setting to Li-Po for a 4.2 volt charge.

Tom

Thank God for SilverFox. Excellent post.

JimmyM - Thank you for your well reasoned input. KK

JimmyM said:

What failed? What is the safety issue? The only thing I remember reading about is that some guy blew up a cell by charging one cell with the charger set for 2. Is there a new safety problem with this charger?

Am I to read the above posts correctly? Alin10123 is being bashed because he sells a charger that does exactly what it says it will do? User error is just that. USER error. My truck does absolutely nothing to prevent me from steering into oncoming traffic. If I do, I can't sue GM for building a truck that doesn't prevent me from driving into oncoming traffic.
There are plenty of instructions / warnings (from what I've read) outlining hazards involved with this charger.
If anyone has a bone to pick with Alin10123 regarding the lithium charger involved in the "incident", do it elsewhere. It is off topic in this thread.
The subject is "Possible new multi cell Li-Ion Universal Balanced charger setup". The charger involved in the incident was neither New, nor Balancing.

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I started this thread to both point out the lack of, and to make sure we give input about the best way to have a reliable universal charging cradle for the various size Li-Ions....independent of whichever charger is used. I was shocked to realize how dangerous my Lithium charging has been, and even more shocked that there was no practical cradle in existence for doing balance charging, or parallel charging. Essentially, someone will make a few bucks for providing this needed cradle...which I don't want any part of. I'm only interested in it being done, and done safely. I'm also interested in what is the best "home made" setup in the short term for SAFE charging of my Li-Ions.

The types of Li-Ion chargers, or safety of chargers is really a different topic...but it keeps seeming like there is not ever going to be an easy, foolproof way to safely charge Li-Ion cells...unless a whole new safer chemistry replaces existing types for cells...which I don't see on the horizon yet.

I have found it!!!



Universal charging cradle for 4x AAA, AA, C or D batteries.
Max charging current: 3A
Connection with 4mm banana plug.

They also have a 1 cell universal holder:


What do you think?

Tronic said:

I have found it!!!
Universal charging cradle for 4x AAA, AA, C or D batteries.
Max charging current: 3A
Connection with 4mm banana plug.

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:goodjob:

It look like common ground with only one negative plug. I think it's good for parallel charging and may take some efforts to wire in series.

They also have a 1 cell universal holder:

What do you think?

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Any online store carries them? :naughty:

Thanks.

NetKidz said:

:goodjob:

It look like common ground with only one negative plug. I think it's good for parallel charging and may take some efforts to wire in series.

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Yes, it can be used "as is" for parallel charging. But I think it should be possible to rewire it for seriell charging. I will get one and report back if it can be done.

NetKidz said:

Any online store carries them? :naughty:

Thanks.

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Yes. There is one here in switzerland but that ship only localy.

But there is also one in Germany. www.conrad.de

Unfortunate a direct link to the cradle dont work.
Just search for 512034-62 (This is the order Number)

out standing!!!

do I smell group buy?

Tronic said:

I have found it!!!



Universal charging cradle for 4x AAA, AA, C or D batteries.
Max charging current: 3A
Connection with 4mm banana plug.

Click <HERE> for the Datasheet.

They also have a 1 cell universal holder:


What do you think?

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Great find...you found the needle in the haystack. Hopefully this will work out, or give a platform to build upon. Great Post!!

Darn, I found this English link, but they don't ship to USA or Canada. This says it can connect multiple cradles in series too. I wonder who actually makes it, because I bet they have no idea how needed this is.

Caution - I opened the smaller of the two photos that Tronic posted in the other thread on this subject. My spysweeper went NUTS! Now my NIS jumped out to a full virus scan. Not making an accusation here, just letting you know that you may pick up something nasty if you open the links. KK