The most powerful Maglite mods list

jimjones3630 said:

Pete 20.1vbulb wow! Noticed get the same amount of voltage reduction with favorite NTC or AW's driver. 6x3.3v 19.8v nominal, looks like maxed out. 6x3.7v(emoli)22.2vbat, your getting about 1v sag in your circuit. 21.2vbulb may not instan-flash 64458. One NTC might be too much.

2xemoli with NTC, 5761 last night got 8.17vbat, 6.9vbulb. That why think might be too much

Exciting stuff!



Jim

Click to expand...

Certanly is Exciting stuff!

There is so much good info in this thread, Driving Hotwires for reasonable runtimes on Emoli has brought us a long way. Glad I jumped on them a while back.

I have been sitting reading lots but been to busy to post much on this recently.

However:

Fired up my first 64458 tonight in a 6D with 5 Emoli .

19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A

The cells were brand new, and read 3.87V on them, They haven't been charged yet.

the output was comparable, and may be arguably brighter, than my 64623 in a 6C on 4 Emoli.

That was running on a 4 x Emoli 14.4 V resting pack, 14V from the bulb pin to the tailcap. 9.3A. Did notice an initial spike of 12+A.

these 4 cells have been used and are reading 3.82V now.

I was hoping for a bit more from the 458 on 18V, compared to the 6C x 4 emoli 64623 it wasnt all that, but as Jim mentioned the 64623 realy does shine on 4 Emoli, I have even insta flashed one, on a fresh~ish pack, and the cells weren't even quite at 16.8V altogether ( around 16.6V)

But I will charge the cells tomorrow, and have fully charged comparison.

Good Idea on the 5C with extras to do the 4 Emoli, its a grat platform, and all the bits are still obtainable, I managed to get the emoli's in the C's without boring, and very thin tape, but its snug.

I have 2 more 6C's to experiment with, and near all the lamps osram do from 20W up to 100W, I'd like to try a good balance in at least one build to be able to manage the heat for the full length of the packs runtime.

I'm certanly looking forward to Lux Luthor testing the lamps, as I now think most of the 20W to 90 W lamps need in the region of 5 Emoli, some maybee 6.

Hopefully the IRC lamps realy like 6 Emoli

I had been thinking for a long time of the 458 in one of my 7C's, which I will no doubt do;

But now wonder if a 458 in a 6D and 37mm extention and 6 emoli's can be tamed by JimmyM, If he will build a max trim pot into his switch i'm going to need, as I think I will blow this mag switch soon on 12A.

Still, I very much doubt that will stop me from putting 7 Emoli in a 6D with both the 37mm & the 73mm extentions on the end to try with the 64655, and hope it likes the initial Kick up the behind. That lamp only has 50Hrs on it, so i'm guessing ita already being driven very hard at 24V.

64655 notes flashed just over 26v and this 24v bulb is horizontal filament. Interesting to see side by side with 4458.

of late, 3xemoil in 4C with 62138 100w is stunning bright white. If going to 4C form might as well go for the most lumens. 11.85vbulb 62138= 1743 tlumens out the window. 64430 9.28vbulb =1937 tlumens out the window.

62138 looks to me whiter and more pleasing maybe it's the axial filament but goes against the numbers giving up almost 200lumen to 64430.

James, after reading your post hooked up 64623 on 4xemolis, had been awhile since lighted one up, it is stunning above 16v. Think I'll use it for rest of the week.

Hi Lux

Updated Measurements with E-Moli cells

My measurements (mm)

Old C-Mag . . 26.30
New C-Mag . 26.24

AW Clion . . . 25.62

A123 26650 . 26.91 Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

A123 26650 . 25.91 Bare
A123 26650 . 25.99 Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits
A123 26650 . 26.21 Parcel Tape (multi Layer) Fits very snugly

UPDATE :- E-Moli Arrived

E-Moli 26700 . 26.60 Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

E-Moli 26700 . 26.10 Bare
E-Moli 26700 . 26.24 Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits Old-C Snugly
Fits New-C Exactly/Just too big depending on tolerences ?



Cheers
Pete

ps.

NOTE: A123 Cells are reversed polarity . . . Can is +ve and Pip is -ve
E-Moli data sheet

Raoul_Duke said:

But now wonder if a 458 in a 6D and 37mm extention and 6 emoli's can be tamed by JimmyM, If he will build a max trim pot into his switch i'm going to need, as I think I will blow this mag switch soon on 12A.

Click to expand...

I'll be using the 40V MOSFET in all of the soft-starters, so voltage won't be an issue. Also, there will be a trim pot onboard to adjust the max-duty cycle. Parts are ordered and I'll start building as soon as I get them. I do have to order more of the big MOSFETs though. (No pre-orders, please) Once built and tested, I post in the proper forum.

My newest project involves a Garrity 2D host (basically the same as a Mag, and I'll probably switch this project to a Mag once I've played a little). I've figured out that I can mod the switch to handle higer amps and I can fit four CR123A cells in it with a reducer tube and different rear spring. My question is, what kind of wattage bulb can four CR123As or RCR123As power? The RCRs I use are only 680mah. I have a bi-pin bulb that is 12V and 75 watts, which off of four of these cells would be overdriven to around 15 volts and drawing around 5 amps. I'm not worried about melting the lens and reflector in this first test (I'll use short bursts) but I am worried about overtaxing the batteries. What RCR123A or CR123A cells have the highest mah rating?

Is there a better way to get 12-15 volts that will fit in a 2D host without boring the body?

As a side question, how in the heck do you get the snap ring that holds the switch into a Mag out? I thought I had every tool known to man but I don't have snap ring pliers that will fit into the tube and I haven't had any luck with screw drivers.

Thanks,
Doug

CR123As can work at ~2.5A max.

R123s can deliver 1.2A safely, 1.5A max.

In both cases, voltages will sag significantly.

You might get a bit of smoke with the set-up you are proposing, and certainly some heat, but not much light.

After you remove the Mag Switch out the bottom, then slide a kitchen table knife which is wide enough, and thin enough to slide under the ears of the snap ring. It is not in place with much tension.

The CR123 cells are pretty limited in their usefulness, and safety for a more agressive type of multi-cell applicaiton. It is why we use larger cells and/or NiMH cells.

Hi Lux (et Al)

Just a few readings from my A123s and E-Molis


IRC50
5x AW-C. .Vbulb 18.8 @ 5.1A (~95W)
6x A123 . .Vbulb 19.7 @ 5.2A (~102W)
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 19.6 @ 5.3A (~104W)

IRC65
6x A123 . .Vbulb 19.1 @ 6.44A (~123W)
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.5 @ 6.40A (~118W)

64458
6x A123 . .Vbulb 18.7 @ 11.5A (~215W) (ClampMeter !)
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A (~189W) (ClampMeter !)

All really great bulbs.
Wonder what the Lumen/Watt of the 64458 and the IRCs are ?

Just got the bits to build an FET-Switch but no time . . .


Cheers Pete

Thanks for updating your results Pete , with the clamped results.

You got readings for 5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A.

I got 19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A

I didn't use a clamp meter, just forgot for a second the fuse was rated 10A verses the expected > 10A bulb curren draw, still It survived.

Weird, for some reason, I thought the 458 would pull more A but I guess the voltage needs to be higher for this.

Were your Emoli cells fully charged.

Looking back Mine wern't and the pack voltage was 19.3.

With 21V it may be more current pulled, ( I remember seeing a 12A start up on the meter, but it dropped almost instantly to arround 10A
but the 4.2V is nominal, and quickly drops off under load, looking at the emoli graph thats knocking about, and the periodic measurement of the Voltage / performance of my pack

What kind of switch were you using? A kiu'd D switch?

I'm thinking 6 emolis to run the 64458, but need a way to tame the 25.2 starting voltage. I think once the 4.2V nominal is down under load the 3.7 x 6 cells 22.2 V will not make it to the pins, so it might just sit at 21V or so, which seems to be a good place to be with this lamp.

Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.

sl12 1r010 NTC using on 5761 with 2xemoli 8.17vbulb down to 6.9vbulb.
The % residual resistance of NTC would be same but could change with inceased heat.

Don't have a way yet to try SL121R010 on 6 Emoli cells but will do on 5 cells and post results here.

Raoul_Duke said:

Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.

Click to expand...

64458 with 5 Emoli with NTC controlled surge protection soft start Amertherm SL12 1R010 NTC
20.2vbat, 16.59vbulb.

Maybe another NTC better suited for 64458

Raoul_Duke said:

Thanks for updating your results Pete , with the clamped results.

You got readings for 5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A.

I got 19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A

I didn't use a clamp meter, just forgot for a second the fuse was rated 10A verses the expected > 10A bulb curren draw, still It survived.

Weird, for some reason, I thought the 458 would pull more A but I guess the voltage needs to be higher for this.

Were your Emoli cells fully charged.

Looking back Mine wern't and the pack voltage was 19.3.

With 21V it may be more current pulled, ( I remember seeing a 12A start up on the meter, but it dropped almost instantly to arround 10A
but the 4.2V is nominal, and quickly drops off under load, looking at the emoli graph thats knocking about, and the periodic measurement of the Voltage / performance of my pack

What kind of switch were you using? A kiu'd D switch?

I'm thinking 6 emolis to run the 64458, but need a way to tame the 25.2 starting voltage. I think once the 4.2V nominal is down under load the 3.7 x 6 cells 22.2 V will not make it to the pins, so it might just sit at 21V or so, which seems to be a good place to be with this lamp.

Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.

Click to expand...

Hi Raoul,

Still got to get round to making my KIU-FET switch (Std. Kiu-D for now) and until I do I am not really testing the 64458 !

Hoping for the JimmyM Softstarter with Trim-Pot to arrive down the line so that then 6 E-Moli might work rather nicely ! ! !

Cheers Pete

OK !

Made up an FET switch at last !

Based on the simple schematic from JimmyM




[URL="http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fmosfetschemmjimmymos7.jpg"] . . [/URL]



The Batt-Neg / Source Node is on the reverse - The Source leg of the FET goes through a hole in the PCB. 10K resistor soldered to Source Leg !

The component side has just three areas - Gate, Drain and Switch - See Thumb-3 Above

The Kiu bulb wires come through the hole in the middle and attach to the Drain and the Switch/Battery Spring (see Thumb) with a little magnet soldered on for good measure !

I also put some of that copper braid on the Mag Tail-Spring - it came from the V28 pack that provided the E-Molis !

So - What's the difference ?

Well firstly no damage to Mag Switch from 10+Amps.

and much lower resistance

6x A123 - IRC65

Mag Switch - 20.9V Open Circuit
19.10VBulb @ 6.44A

FET Switch and TailFix - 19.97V Open Circuit
19.28VBulb @ 7.10A

With slightly more used cells still get higher VBulb and higher Amps.


6x A123 - 64458

0 Min . . . . 21.1V O/C . 19.5VBulb @ 11.6A (226W)
3.5 Min . . .20.0V O/C . 18.6VBulb @ 10.4A (193W)
7.0 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 18.3VBulb @ 10.2A (187W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
~11.5 Min cutoff @ 15V
Slow dimming and drop -off.
Recharge 2.8Ah in 22min

5x E-Moli - 64458

0 Min . . . . 20.5V O/C . 18.7VBulb @ 10.6A (198W)
3.5 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 17.9VBulb @ 9.8A (175W)
7.0 Min . . .19.3V O/C . 17.6VBulb @ 9.6A (169W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
13.3 Min . . 17.5V O/C . 15.0VBulb @ 8.6A (129W)
~13.3 Min cutoff @ 15V
Very flat middle section !
Precipitous - Almost vertical drop-off at the end - very rapid dimming to possible cell damage ?

Interesting !

Pete

Wooo, Excellant! Don't you love how flat both cells discharge? A123 no problem discharge down to 2v, heard A123 charging programs can trickle back to life when less than 2v. Emoli overdischare question is inconclusive as I understand.
Great job Pete :twothumbs
http://www.swift-tuning.com/EMOLI_26700A.pdf

petrev said:

OK !

Made up an FET switch at last !

Based on the simple schematic from JimmyM




[URL="http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fmosfetschemmjimmymos7.jpg"] . . [/URL]



The Batt-Neg / Source Node is on the reverse - The Source leg of the FET goes through a hole in the PCB. 10K resistor soldered to Source Leg !

The component side has just three areas - Gate, Drain and Switch - See Thumb-3 Above

The Kiu bulb wires come through the hole in the middle and attach to the Drain and the Switch/Battery Spring (see Thumb) with a little magnet soldered on for good measure !

I also put some of that copper braid on the Mag Tail-Spring - it came from the V28 pack that provided the E-Molis !

So - What's the difference ?

Well firstly no damage to Mag Switch from 10+Amps.

and much lower resistance

6x A123 - IRC65

Mag Switch - 20.9V Open Circuit
19.10VBulb @ 6.44A

FET Switch and TailFix - 19.97V Open Circuit
19.28VBulb @ 7.10A

With slightly more used cells still get higher VBulb and higher Amps.


6x A123 - 64458

0 Min . . . . 21.1V O/C . 19.5VBulb @ 11.6A (226W)
3.5 Min . . .20.0V O/C . 18.6VBulb @ 10.4A (193W)
7.0 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 18.3VBulb @ 10.2A (187W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
~11.5 Min cutoff @ 15V
Slow dimming and drop -off.
Recharge 2.8Ah in 22min

5x E-Moli - 64458

0 Min . . . . 20.5V O/C . 18.7VBulb @ 10.6A (198W)
3.5 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 17.9VBulb @ 9.8A (175W)
7.0 Min . . .19.3V O/C . 17.6VBulb @ 9.6A (169W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
13.3 Min . . 17.5V O/C . 15.0VBulb @ 8.6A (129W)
~13.3 Min cutoff @ 15V
Very flat middle section !
Precipitous - Almost vertical drop-off at the end - very rapid dimming to possible cell damage ?

Interesting !

Pete

Click to expand...

Thanks Jim,

With a component count of 3 it's just about my limit !)

Looking forward to JimmyM's SS - sounds like good progress over in the PWM thread.

Yep gotta love that flat discharge.

Cheers Pete

Have the MOSFET, two resistors. Swithch only no soft start. Still that's some itty bitty soldering work. Looks good. MOSFET is n channel? Rated up to how many volts?

petrev said:

Thanks Jim,

With a component count of 3 it's just about my limit !)

Looking forward to JimmyM's SS - sounds like good progress over in the PWM thread.

Yep gotta love that flat discharge.

Cheers Pete

Click to expand...

jimjones3630 said:

Have the MOSFET, two resistors. Swithch only no soft start. Still that's some itty bitty soldering work. Looks good. MOSFET is n channel? Rated up to how many volts?

Click to expand...

Hi - Simple switch, IRF2804 40V (just in case) D2PAK version is slightly smaller and would fit better - had to trim a bit of heatsink on mine !

Cheers Pete

petrev said:

Hi - Simple switch, IRF2804 40V (just in case) D2PAK version is slightly smaller and would fit better - had to trim a bit of heatsink on mine !

Cheers Pete

Click to expand...

The IRF2804 is a D2PAK package. The body is roughly 10mm x 10mm. There is a smaller package, DPAK, which is quite nice. A TO-220 package sits between the 2, sizewize. My softstarters will use the D2PAK IRF2804.
petrev, If you want to, you can change the resistor values to half of what they are. The IRF2804 has a large gate capacitance which causes it to turn on and off more slowly. If you switch to 2.2k and 5k, the MOSFET will switch faster and thus reduce the heat generated during turn on and off.

JimmyM said:

The IRF2804 is a D2PAK package. The body is roughly 10mm x 10mm. There is a smaller package, DPAK, which is quite nice. A TO-220 package sits between the 2, sizewize. My softstarters will use the D2PAK IRF2804.
petrev, If you want to, you can change the resistor values to half of what they are. The IRF2804 has a large gate capacitance which causes it to turn on and off more slowly. If you switch to 2.2k and 5k, the MOSFET will switch faster and thus reduce the heat generated during turn on and off.

Click to expand...

Hi Jimmy,

The IRF-2804 I used was a TO-220 which has the bigger heat sink but is about the same size, package wise, as the D2PAK. I have some of the D2PAK(TO-262/TO-263) but wanted to use up the bigger heatsink ones first !

DPAK would be quite a bit smaller and if you can suggest a suitable component for other people if they wanted smaller that would be great.

Doubt if I am switching mine on and off fast/often enough to cause much heating until I learn how to signal in Morse Code ! but it's good to know - Darn it - just got 4 each of the 4K7 and 10K . . .

Keep up the good work
Cheers Pete