Big Jim (PAR36 Lantern) Hotwire List

lctorana

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Had an expensive disaster last night.

First a bit of history. My own little corner of the candlepower world is PAR36 sealed-beam lanterns (epecially the Australian version of the Eveready Model 101C - the "Big Jim".)

I started with a standard, old-model with the 4546 bulb. Heavy-duty Zinc-Carbon battery.

My next purchase was the brighter, newer-model with the 4547 bulb, and a SHD Zinc-Chloride battery - more than double the lux on a ceiling-bounce test.

Third step was to use a H7550 with a 6V SLA battery - the "HaloJim" - more than triple the lux.

Then, after joining CPF and reading about the Roar of the Pelican, I built the "Roar of the Big Jim", with 7xSubC cells plus a 1ohm NTC, driving a 30W GE 4515 stage lamp. Eighteen times the lux.

The next step was to upgrade the Roar of the Big Jim to a H4515 - now 28 times the lux.

The next step up was to the H7604 - 12.8V 50W, driven by 14xSubC cells plus a 2.2ohm NTC, which I dubbed "The Tractor Beam", because of the bulb's intended use as a spotlight for nighttime tractor use. We are now seeing more than 50 times the lux of the 4546. At the last Melbourne meet, I threw down the gauntlet to challenge "any HID present" for brightness and throw - with honours even!

But on with the horsepower race.

My next step was to build another battery with 14xSubC cells of higher capacity plus a 1ohm NTC, and modify a Big Jim to add a buffering relay.
I'm moving into big-power, beyond the reach of the stock switch.

Then I went with a GE 4500 (13V 85W) runway light, which took me to more than 70 times the lux.

Starting to get nervous now.

With the addition of a GE 4509 (13V 100W) arcraft landing light, the "AeroJim" delivers an eye-watering 126 times the lux of the 4546 original.

Googling some aircraft forums recommended me the legendary Q4509 - which is also 13V 100W, but was found to be about double the brightness of the 4509 by the aircraft boys, and at 100 hours v 25 hours, should stand up to some serious overdriving.

OK, so I lashed out and bought a genuine GE Q4509.

Cost me more than A$50.

Nervous, and excited.

The NTC was cold, and the battery had been run down a little.

Hooked it up to the AeroJim in place of the 4509, and switched on.

Watched the lux climb as the NTC warmed up, and :poof:

Just.

Like.

That.
 
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Glen C

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LC, that was great read until the :poof: at the end, I felt for you then. Sometimes the pioneers end up with arrows through them ;)


There should be a thread on your escapades with Dolphins and Big Jims :)
 

Bimmerboy

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Ugghhh... at $50, that definitely hurts, lc. :candle:

Any preliminary ideas on why it burned out? It should've been a success, right?

Just fishing... was the "Q" new or used?
 

lctorana

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Brand new.

Just out of the pristine, OEM-sealed, yellow-and-blue genuine GE box.

But, for the record, it was fairly and squarely my fault. Experienced readers would have picked up on the fact that I used fourteen cells to power a thirteen volt lamp.

Even with the nice gentle ramp-up of the NTC, that is clearly just too much overdrive. Evidently I was just lucky with the 4500 & 4509, or the Q4509 is fragile.

But because (a) it has a 100-hour service life and (b) it is made for rough-and-bumpy aircraft landing use, I was hoping I'd get away with it.

Sigh.
 

SafetyBob

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Yes, I did the math after you posted it but figured that even though you used that many batteries, I figured the amount of power the bulb would have drawn would have pulled the voltage down substantially. Evidently I and you were wrong. Believe me I am writing this stuff down. My bulbs are on the way, but I need to get some more rechargeables before I can power stuff up.

So how many do you think you could have powered it up safety with?

Do you think if you would have paralled some additional NTC's that would have done the trick?

And finally, is there or are there certain host lights you could recommend for PAR 36 lights?

Bob E.
 

YAK-28

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this sounds good, how does the beam compare to a mag* or custom mag* headed light as to throw/flood and spot/spill? how big and heavy is it with all the batteries? :popcorn::popcorn:
 

lctorana

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SafetyBob said:
Yes, I did the math after you posted it but figured that even though you used that many batteries, I figured the amount of power the bulb would have drawn would have pulled the voltage down substantially. Evidently I and you were wrong.
Yes, I did make exactly this assumption, and yes, wrongly. Here's why:
Typically, Sub-C cells are made for high-drain use, and hold up well under load.
With the 4500, I was getting 16.8 volts at the bulb.

SafetyBob said:
So how many do you think you could have powered it up safety with?
My own rule of thumb is to use the same number of cells as the bulb design voltage. This equates to a 20-25% overdrive, as NiCad/NiMH cells are 1.2-1.25 volts.
But I used 14 cells, because it was cheap and convenient to use two pre-made 7-cell packs.

SafetyBob said:
Do you think if you would have paralled some additional NTC's that would have done the trick?
No, that's going the wrong way. In this case, as it happens, I needed MORE resistance in circuit, not less. Or, as I said, less volts.

SafetyBob said:
And finally, is there or are there certain host lights you could recommend for PAR 36 lights?


I see you are from USA, so in that case I have 4 recommendations, in no particular order:
  • Energizer 9101IND (current model "Big Jim")
  • "Big Beam" Model 664
  • "Big Beam" Model 666
  • RayOVac RAY301K
Others can chip in with recomendations for old USA models; I believe Eveready, RayOVac and Burgess all made good ones, but don't really know.
 
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lctorana

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this sounds good, how does the beam compare to a mag* or custom mag* headed light as to throw/flood and spot/spill? how big and heavy is it with all the batteries? :popcorn::popcorn:

For throw, there is just no comparison with a Maglite. We're in a totally different class here.

Throw from a sealed-beam lantern with a "spot" bulb is at least a mile.

Yes, a mile. 1760 yards.

Even for the two-watt, 17-lumen standard job.

And the hotwires throw even further...
(I have a 64610-fitted 6D Mag, and the "Tractor Beam" above leaves it for dead in every department. And I have gone two huge steps beyond that now...)

As for "spill", well, if you use a spotlight bulb, there's effectively none. Just a pencil beam of light. Or you can go with a "flood light", that is all flood (or scatter, to be precise!) and no throw, or you can have a wedge-shaped-beam, or an amber-lensed foglight, or, well you get the picture.


How big?

The head is about 5" round or square, and the battery is about a 5x4x2.5" brick. How heavy depends entirely on what sort of cells and how many you fill it with. How long depends on the model - if you go with the ones with the red flasher, they can be up to about 10" long all-up.
 

SafetyBob

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lctorana, thank you so much for the information. I have a couple of "big" incan M@gs too and I now realize to get really, really good throw I must get one of FiveMega's 2 1/2 or 3 inch head/reflectors. The 2 inch head really does limit the flashlight alot even though there is nobody in my zip code with as powerful or bright M@glite as I have!!

Your info on the spot bulbs is very good to know also. I suspected that at least the spot type bulbs would either be really, really good and give spetacular throw or I would be wasting my money. Now I know.

Bob E.
 

Burgess

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to Lctorana --


I always enjoy reading your posts. :wave:



Just wish that this story had a happier ending.


:ohgeez:

_
 

lctorana

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There should be a thread on your escapades with Dolphins and Big Jims
Since you ask, here is a summary:
PAR36.gif


Please let me know if you can't see a picture above!

The Volts and Amps are manufacturer design volts only. Note the first three bulbs won't tolerate any overdrive.

The beam pattern is the size and shape of the hotspot. There is some spill around this, but that's not counted.

MSCP ("Mean Spherical Candlepower") relates to the brightness of the hotspot.

I have calculated the Torch Lumens in two ways: from a ceiling-bounce lux test, and from steradian calculations extrapolated from the MSCP, followed by a conservative hotrating and reflector derating. The result is the likely torch lumens you could reasonably expect with my chosen levels of real-world overdrive.

Note that:
(a) I have never seen published data on the 4500
(b) the Q4509 went :poof: before I could measure the lux
(c) I haven't yet plucked up the courage to try a 4596
 
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Pher

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Kind of going off topic, but how did you encase the batteries with your light?
 

Juggernaut

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How did I miss this tread for so long? Sorry about the :poof:. If it makes you feel any better I recently bought two Bigbeams and after turning one on for 30 seconds it's bulb blew:mecry:. That sucks, but it wasn't over I turned the other on and it's bulb instaflashed!:scowl::rant: They were both brand new and I was using an old HD zinc battery I had put tons of hours on already. I have heard of the Q4509 before and would probably buy it to have some fun with, but I already have the 150 watt Par46 4049 bulb, and at only 15 hours life this thing is so absurdly overdriven stock on a SLA battery I don't think I'll ever get anything brighter. Heck my 1000 watt GE bulb being under driven by a slight 27 volts compared to it's needed 28 volts can't even out throw this thing:eek: "4-21-09, not anymore:devil: !"
 
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Juggernaut

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You had mentioned that the first 3 bulbs can not be over driven. That includes the H7550. The desired voltage is 6, however as we know that's not what is being delivered by the battery. So my question is how many volts does a charged 6 volt SLA make? Would it not have to be like 7 to work? I know that most 12 volt SLA batteries run at 13.5 volts to power their bulb. I was wondering because I was going to run one of these 8 watt H7550 bulbs of two parallels of 5Ds making 7.5 volts. I'm not trying to overdrive it but it's either 6 volts "way under driving:sigh:" or 7.5. Will this cook the bulb:mad:? Just thought it would make my 10D little bit more practical then drastically under driving it's 30 watt bulb with 10Ds "they don't like 2.5 ah draw:sick:"
 

lctorana

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Juggernaut said:
So my question is how many volts does a charged 6 volt SLA make?
6.3V

Juggernaut said:
Would it not have to be like 7 to work?
No.

Juggernaut said:
I know that most 12 volt SLA batteries run at 13.5 volts to power their bulb.
Not true. 12V SLA batteries run at 12.6V. You're thinking of lead-acid battery voltage while the battery is on-charge, and torches are rarely used in this condition. The exception is of course plug-in spotlights, but these tend to use H3 or H4 auto headlight bulbs which are of course designed for use while the ignition is on.

Juggernaut said:
I was wondering because I was going to run one of these 8 watt H7550 bulbs of two parallels of 5Ds making 7.5 volts. I'm not trying to overdrive it but it's either 6 volts "way under driving:sigh:" or 7.5. Will this cook the bulb:mad:?
I'm not sure. It should be OK - after all, Eveready do still make a 7.5V lantern battery with 10 F cells in 5s2p config, and that probably runs a H7550.

But I can' promise you you won't flash the bulb. If you use zinc-chloride cells, you should be OK, but if you use alkalines, the risk is there. And, of course, if you use NiCad or rested NiMH, I can guarantee you will be 100% safe, unless the bulb is faulty. Unfortunately, H7550s are expensive.

One tip - make triply sure the switch is OFF before you connect the battery, as not doing that is the easiest way to flash the bulb.

Juggernaut said:
Just thought it would make my 10D little bit more practical then drastically under driving it's 30 watt bulb with 10Ds "they don't like 2.5 ah draw"
Yes, it would. Pity there's nothing between the 8W H7550 and the 30W 4515, isn't it?

Sorry for not replying sooner.
 

Juggernaut

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Thanks a bunch for replying before I left. When I come back I'll have to devise a way to get this to work. I'd type more but I'm on my way out the door:(. Again thanks for your time. Some day I hope to know as much as you:thumbsup:!
 

chuck614

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I was so smitten by JetskiMark's mod of the Volkano, I had to build one myself. The Volkano is designed for the par36, so the GE4596 fit perfectly. The battery well accomodates the two 3s lipoly batteries from TrueRC with room to spare. The 250w GE4596 was able to handle the lipolies right off the charger. At 28v, that makes for a little less than 10A, so I replaced the stock slide switch with a newer one that still fit the cutout.
If you specialize in par36, you've got to do this easy and powerful mod. I guess I'll never win another Volkano on eBay after this post. :laughing:
 

lctorana

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I was so smitten by JetskiMark's mod of the Volkano, I had to build one myself. The Volkano is designed for the par36, so the GE4596 fit perfectly. The battery well accomodates the two 3s lipoly batteries from TrueRC with room to spare. The 250w GE4596 was able to handle the lipolies right off the charger. At 28v, that makes for a little less than 10A, so I replaced the stock slide switch with a newer one that still fit the cutout.
If you specialize in par36, you've got to do this easy and powerful mod. I guess I'll never win another Volkano on eBay after this post. :laughing:
I'll google Volkano to see what you're talking about. Edit - found it.
(The VolKano is a 4F-in-tin-box PAR36 lamp, similar to the better-known Big Beam Model 166.)

The 4596 is indeed on my list - see table in post #11 above, but I intend to (a) get successful with the Q4509 first, and (b) decide on a means of powering my 4596. At that current, I will use a relay to buffer the switch.

I have considered 8 x Emoli cells, 28 x SubC NiCads or 27 x SubC NiMHs. All 3 will fit in a 8F battery shell, so are workable - the problem with all three approaches is the ruinous cost of the batteries.

One day a decent deal will appear, and I will be in business.

One thing is for certain - a fuse will have to be fitted in such a monster battery.
 
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Juggernaut

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I'll google Volkano to see what you're talking about. Edit - found it.
(The VolKano is a 4F-in-tin-box PAR36 lamp, similar to the better-known Big Beam Model 166.)

The 4596 is indeed on my list - see table in post #11 above, but I intend to (a) get successful with the Q4509 first, and (b) decide on a means of powering my 4596. At that current, I will use a relay to buffer the switch.

I have considered 8 x Emoli cells, 28 x SubC NiCads or 27 x SubC NiMHs. All 3 will fit in a 8F battery shell, so are workable - the problem with all three approaches is the ruinous cost of the batteries.

One day a decent deal will appear, and I will be in business.

One thing is for certain - a fuse will have to be fitted in such a monster battery.

That's so cute;)! Anyways I remember reading about this crazy mod somewhere when I first joined CPF and can't find it now. I was wondering if anyone knows were it is?
: It was two mods in one thread 1. The same 250 watt bulb in a Bigbeam lantern with a RayOvac sportsmen head. But that's not what I'm interested in.

2. The light I'm trying to find. It was based on the duel out put Bigbeam "something" it just went out of production. It looked just like the 266 but with a different head that had a lens and a reflector that held a small secondary bulb and a main bulb. Well anyways he filled the box with sub-c's I think and replaced the bulb with a 450 watt one:faint::D!! Aha there is 1000 watt lights out their but this thing was the same size as the volcano mod:devil:! Anyone knows were this thread is located it would greatly help:twothumbs.
 
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