Philips LED bike light

swhs

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I finally started sorting out my beamshot images. I would estimate the Philips light to be at least as good as any 1000 lumen (real lumen, not marketing) light with symmetric beam for on-road use. Note that I don't think symmetric beams are good for on-road use, on the contrary, in my tests it was quite clear they are dangerous when riding on dark/unlit roads: when riding with an Edelux and encountering a Magishine, I could not see anything (except the Magicshine) for a fair distance, so I was not being able to see the edge of the road either...

Have a look here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~swhs/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html#Philips LED bike light

(if you scroll back a bit on that page you see daytime images of the roads I've made the beamshots on)

I've made various movies with comparisons with Edelux, Ktronik triple XP-G, Philips LED bike light but they are pretty big so I'm considering redoing them (320 pix instead of 640 and 1280) or perhaps upload somewhere else. This weekend I'll place more beamshots and probably also a few movies on my webpage.
 

BrianMc

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Nice work. Recording lights static or video is neither as easy as it looks (for those of you who haven't tried) nor inexpensive when you have to buy the lights and decent cameras. Just finding spots you won't be run over or disturb dogs is an issue. :thumbsup:

Definitely looks a like a possibility. With a thrower on the helmet that you can aim where you want, it would be quite acceptable. I wonder how it shows in daylight as a running light to oncoming traffic? Some are so narrow, like my high bem light that they are great at 200-1200 feet where th cone of light is big enough to cover the oncoming lane, but lousy closer unless aimed at the driver.

Looking forawrd to the pics and video. :popcorn:
 

steverosburg

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Yeah, looks real nice. How quick is it to change the batteries? Are any tools required? It would be nice to have a spare set in my pack for those long, early rides.

Also, since it's not available here in the U.S., what kind of adapter would I need in order to use the wall charger? I might just end up doing like you and take the batteries out and charge them in my Maha charger anyway, especially if it's stupid simple and doesn't cause any wear & tear on the unit.
 

swhs

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Yeah, looks real nice. How quick is it to change the batteries? Are any tools required? It would be nice to have a spare set in my pack for those long, early rides.

Also, since it's not available here in the U.S., what kind of adapter would I need in order to use the wall charger? I might just end up doing like you and take the batteries out and charge them in my Maha charger anyway, especially if it's stupid simple and doesn't cause any wear & tear on the unit.

Well, I use my Maha charger too :) As I said in the other post, I didn't get the charger with it from the guy I loaned it from, so I can't tell how fast it cahrges, but according to the specs, the charger is 100-240 V, so you only need a convertor plug from EU -> US plug, nothing more. Taking the batteries out and making them external is also an option...

BrianMc said:
it would be quite acceptable

Not sure what you mean by quite acceptable, it's damn impressive! Yes, visible well in daylight too. You might like to read the section about the truck that switched off its high-beam at 1 km distance because it saw the Philips light (this was at night) and nearly slowed to a crawl when passing me. This beam is better than what I've seen in motorcycles. Perhaps the truck driver thought "What the hell is that!". From riding on those unlit lanes, cars passing with my Edelux then the Philips back on, I get the feeling of having a car headlight. It's just that good. The shots as I say on my webpage look worse than they are because I photographed them too low (at just above handlebar height) because my tripod doesn't go high enough.

But if anyone close to me (not far from Amsterdam) has a Betty and wants to do a comparison, I'm up for it ;-)

I wonder how the Dosun D1 faires against the Philips, but really I'd like a dyno light with this much output, I don't like charging batteries.

Next tests to be done: How long it last on high on full batteries, and what happens when batteries are low.
 

steverosburg

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Next tests to be done: How long it last on high on full batteries, and what happens when batteries are low.

Please, please! You've got me very close to buying one of these, and those are two very good questions. If it really does last two hours on a freshly charged set of batteries, and if it switches to economy mode automatically instead of just shutting off as the batteries near exhaustion, I think that would be enough to seal the deal for me.
 

markus_i

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....
I wonder how the Dosun D1 faires against the Philips, but really I'd like a dyno light with this much output, I don't like charging batteries.
...

I've been thinking about that one, too. From the data, it looks like the LEDs are getting at most 1 A (probably more like 0.8 A - let's wait for the results from the runtime test) from the batteries in high power mode, so there are several possibilities, unfortunately most of which involve completely disassembling the electronics part of the light:

1) charge the light from a hub dynamo, either through a DIY charger or maybe a b&m e-Werk. Should get a runtime ratio of (at least - e-Werk might give better results) 3:1 (6 hours charging for 2 hours runtime on high beam) in that way. Needs a check whether simultaneous charging and running is possible.

2) rip out the electronics and batteries, just run the two LEDs in series from a simple rectifier/capacitor circuit (maybe throw in a series capacitor for enhanced output). Runs idefinitely, but will only yield about half of the high beam output on batteries.

3) replace the electronics and batteries with something that will use both LEDs directly at low speed, then boost the current through the LEDs at higher speed (similar to the booster circuit in the Cyo/Edelux, but if possible with automatic switching between direct/boosted mode and the temperature management from the original circuit).

4) get really involved and add a standing light to 2) or 3), with rear light supply thrown in.

Bye
Markus
 

markus_i

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Update:
Dynamo driven battery chargers were a central theme in the last two issues of the German online bike magazine 'fahrradzukunft' (http://www.fahrradzukunft.de/). One of the best systems (surpassing even the e-Werk) was the 'Forumslader' (http://www.forumslader.de/), a communal project from a German cycling forum.
The principle of the Forumslader is simple: charge a 12V battery pack (10 NiMHs, 4 LiFePO4, whatever) through a low-drop regulator from the dynamo, then use an optional high efficiency step-down switcher to provide 5V for USB users. That'll yield something like up to 4.5 Watts in low-speed mode and >8 Watts in high-speed mode (i.e. with series capacitors engaged). Efficiency could probably be better (overall efficiency is about 50%), but simplicity and robustness might be worth it.

Bye
Markus(_really_ tempted now...)
 

BrianMc

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Had a look at you new postings.

I will have to look into hosting larger resolution pics and posting the thumbnails. Keeps our Moderators happy. :thumbsup:

swhs: I have pasted your comments from your web page and extracted them/praphrased them so readers don't have to go back and forth and get messed up. They are in bold typeface. I trust that is OK with you.

The lens ..lets light go ... directly into your eyes. This is a serious design flaw!.

It is easy for Phillips to fix and easy for an owner to remedy. I like that the lens wraps the front of the 'hood' of the lamp as you get good side marking and some straight down light. A piece of black tape or black enamel paint masked and sprayed onto the offending bit would fix it easily. I don't know what a factory masking and paint job would add to cost of production, but it would help their customers night vision.

The blue 'fuel guage' LEDs ... should be less bright, they are to intrusive.

Some older riders with less night vision may not agree, but that said, a piece of semi-transparent tape or a thin coat of clear paint with a little blue or black mixed in might tone that down some. Often, 'fuel gauges' are on a momentary switch to reduce power drain and prevent this issue. A good idea for an updaed version from Phillips.

Pressing the button makes the light come on in low mode, additional presses ...switches between low and high mode. Keeping the button pressed for about 2 seconds switches the light off.

Nice, neat, simple.

My first impression on 1 August: Wow, that looks to be nearly a car headlight!

Possible. A halogen car headligght is 900-1100 lumens but spread over a much wider area. So the narrow beam may be as bright at a fraction of the lumens.

The owner of the Philips light and I, rode comparing four lights: the Edelux, Kerry's dyno powered triple XP-G, the Philips light, and an old halogen. We both felt that the Philips gave an extremely good illumination and we both had the idea that more light was not needed. Especially the little posts on the side of the road with reflective material while riding with high mode are almost annoying... more comparison tests this week.

An excess of light where you don't want it is counter productive. I have had the same experience with my light setup. Less can be more.

Philips' claim of a throw of 80 metres looks reasonable: I'd say, ca. 70 m from my first test. With the Edelux I get ca. 50 m and the triple XP-G ca. 40 m.

With twin reflectors of that size and small die emitters, they should. To get throw from XP-Gs I had to resort to aspherical lenses so they'd fit an MR11 body. Bigger is better in lenses or reflectors for throw.

...The first ride with the Philips light .. I got a reflecting traffic cone at a distance of 630 metres. With the Edelux ...I got to about 450 metres.... very hard to improve on ...as that road just isn't straight enough ...

I will check this on my system for comparison purposes. Good idea.

What oncoming traffic sees:

Sounds like the light should be aimed with the top at or just above the horzon or what's the point of the sharp upper cutoff?

Conclusion (preliminary): Best bike light I've ever seen. ... except to have it dyno powered! ...a bit more closeup light. ... If that darker bit was a brighter I'd like it even more.

So Phillips: Grade B+ to A-?. Version two needs a blacked out upper lip on the lens, a momentary switch for the 'fuel gauge', a bit more near field, and some fill in of the dark spot, and don't forget a dyno version.

But in the mean time, it looks like a winner!

swhs: Keep up the good work!

I wonder if Geoman might be interested in an NA distributorship?
 

steverosburg

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Another question: how water-resistant is it? I don't generally ride in the rain, but it would be nice to know that if I get caught it the rain it wouldn't damage it.

EDIT: I don't see it in this thread, but I'm also curious whether this light can be charged on-the-fly via USB. Since it's powered by ordinary NiMH AA batteries it wouldn't be too much of a problem to stop and change them, but it would be fantastic if I didn't have to, for those rare occasions where I know I'll be out in the dark for more than 2 hours. Since the charger which comes with the unit is 1000mA, I assume there is no built-in circuit which limits the USB power to 500mA (USB spec). This may mean it's possible to entirely power the unit off the USB port, which is a really attractive option if I want to run an external battery pack.
 
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swhs

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Another question: how water-resistant is it? I don't generally ride in the rain, but it would be nice to know that if I get caught it the rain it wouldn't damage it.

The lid is on the bottom, and the aluminium bottom section sits in rubber that's probably glued on the top section. Looks to be waterproof, as it should be for daily use in germany and the Netherlands.

steverosburg said:
EDIT: I don't see it in this thread, but I'm also curious whether this light can be charged on-the-fly via USB. Since it's powered by ordinary NiMH AA batteries it wouldn't be too much of a problem to stop and change them, but it would be fantastic if I didn't have to, for those rare occasions where I know I'll be out in the dark for more than 2 hours. Since the charger which comes with the unit is 1000mA, I assume there is no built-in circuit which limits the USB power to 500mA (USB spec). This may mean it's possible to entirely power the unit off the USB port, which is a really attractive option if I want to run an external battery pack.

Not sure, I suppose I can use a standard USB cable, just haven't tried it as I don't use USB stuff except for the camera.

BrianMc said:
swhs: I have pasted your comments from your web page and extracted them/praphrased them so readers don't have to go back and forth and get messed up. They are in bold typeface. I trust that is OK with you.

Yes, looks a good summary of my findings. I've added some more beamshots, timings of the light (blue leds etc.) on high and uploaded one of the videos:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~swhs/fiets/te...philips-edelux-320p--2010-08-10--04.47.14.mp4

Note that the movies all look better on my camera than on the PC monitor; The latter is an oldish Samsung 701v which doesn't have a great contrast/brightness, so that could be the problem.

It should be obvious when the Edelux is on (narrowest beam) and when the Philips is on. Let me know if this is useful or not, if so I will put up a few more including Edelux-Philips-Triple XP-G


Btw, modifying a Philips for dyno is something I've been considering for a while.

Rating: I'd say 8.5 out of 10. Just a few small imperfections, but it's already about as good as you will need for on-road use. Wet smooth asphalt is another matter, then you never have enough light and you are really dependant on reflections from other objects, therefore the wide beam is good.
 
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steverosburg

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Not sure, I suppose I can use a standard USB cable, just haven't tried it as I don't use USB stuff except for the camera.
You should just be able to use a USB type A to mini B (the kind that come with digital cameras and other electronic devices) to connect from your USB port on your computer to the light. I'm curious whether the light will still function while plugged in, and whether it would extend the run time. I know it's asking a lot for you to test this, but it would be tremendously helpful to know in advance. Then you could be the official "unofficial Philips LED bike light evangelist", as several more of us may owe our purchase to your excellent information... :)

Regardless of whether you have opportunity or means to perform this test, many thanks already for all the information you've posted. I had never heard of this light before, and seems I never would have otherwise.
 

Bobblehat

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I was curious about the question of whether you need a tool to change the cells, as was an earlier poster.

One of swhs's web page photos clearly shows the underside and that a hex (Allen) key is needed. I hope the bolt is captive (looks like it could be).

I also wondered about the inside attachment so I took the liberty of taking a section of one of swhs's web site pics and lightening it. You can clearly view the means of attachment of the base to the rest of the light.

Philipslightbase.jpg


Can I add to the wish list for the Mark II version that a better design of latching the back end of the base to the top is used. That looks like very little alloy in those two little grooved posts (ringed) holding the back of the base to the top ..... although the bolt will take a lot of the load. They look like they could be easy to accidently break at the thinnest point.

Great detail in your reports ..... appreciate the effort you've put in.
 

Uzzi

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I'm thinking that the Philips emitters aren't really that efficient (or bright) . The burning question is... can the emitters be swapped out for two (or more) XPG's?

I read here that the case is made of brushed aluminum, so there is some passive cooling, and a flat surface on top for placing more cooling if needed.
 
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BrianMc

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I'm thinking that the Philips emitters aren't really that efficient (or bright) . The burning question is... can the emitters be swapped out for two (or more) XPG's?

I read here that the case is made of brushed aluminum, so there is some passive cooling, and a flat surface on top for placing more cooling if needed.

panicmechanic suggested just that when he mentioned the Phillips light in the 'Let's design a road front light beam' (or whatever its title) thread as opposed to modding the Schmidt or B & M lights.

The XP-G mod should give less heat, more light, and more runtime. That was before we'd seen anything but the distributor pics and one beam comparo.

The XP-E emitters are closer in physical die size to the Luxeon emitters, but they are less efficient (more heat) and only go to R3 (less light) whereas the XP-G should soon be available in an S2 (another 7 lumens per watt) for about 280 raw lumens for two (no lens losses counted) at 350 mA if the XP-g die will behave with this lens.

The bottom of the light case is also metal, but without a good thermal contact/path, something a modder could fix along with reinforcing or backing up the rear clips, a momentary switch placed in line with the fuel gauge, and masking of the top lens wrap around. With luck, the bigger XP-G die may help near field and the dark spot.

No cash here to try it, Anyone want a go at it?
 

panicmechanic

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panicmechanic suggested just that when he mentioned the Phillips light in the 'Let's design a road front light beam' (or whatever its title) thread as opposed to modding the Schmidt or B & M lights.

The XP-G mod should give less heat, more light, and more runtime. That was before we'd seen anything but the distributor pics and one beam comparo.

Yes, that was then, and now, after seeing swhs's pics, I'd say: just take it as it is. Even if there was a chance of gaining brightness, you would not profit from it, unless you could broaden the beam pattern or add some lumens to the top of the beam.
The light patch seems bright enough for many riding conditions, so much so that swhs mentioned people turning to 'low' when riding close to retroreflective signs and posts.
I wouldn't say the chances for improvement are zero, but then Uzzi's question was also about "two (or more) XP-Gs". I don't see how adding emitters would help, the reflector of this lamp is (obviously very well) designed for single die packages.
 

swhs

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Yes, that was then, and now, after seeing swhs's pics, I'd say: just take it as it is. Even if there was a chance of gaining brightness, you would not profit from it, unless you could broaden the beam pattern or add some lumens to the top of the beam.
The light patch seems bright enough for many riding conditions, so much so that swhs mentioned people turning to 'low' when riding close to retroreflective signs and posts.
I wouldn't say the chances for improvement are zero, but then Uzzi's question was also about "two (or more) XP-Gs". I don't see how adding emitters would help, the reflector of this lamp is (obviously very well) designed for single die packages.

Indeed. Reflectors have been designed for specific LEDs. Changing the LEDs with a different type will change the beam pattern, which means there could be artefacts or too much light close up. More light further away is not really needed for normal use, perhaps for high speed descents but even car headlights don't shine much better/further than this light. At least, that goes for the car headlights I've looked at closely since starting the tests with the Philips light. Some are actually much worse, with large distracting artefacts in the beam.

What the Philips light shows, is that we're coming to a point where you don't really need more light, but attention should go to other things:

- Neutral white or even warm white are less annoying to oncoming traffic, easier on the eyes for the rider using it too, and they may be better in the wet (I've done a few short tests with cool vs. neutral, I'm going to test warm white soon).

- Perhaps optimize the beam slightly to remove the problem of reflective posts on the side of the road just reflecting too much which is almost like someone shining a torch in your eyes. I will make some pictures of this too. This may be difficult for various reasons that take too long to explain here. Perhaps this will simply be solved (or at least improved), by mounting the light lower (fork crown height, which is the usual place where dyno lights are positioned), I'm going to check that too.

- A little more light near the front wheel, i.e. just iron out small imperfections in the beam.

Btw, on my webpage I've made some additions and mentioned some possible competitors to this light:
1. B&M IXON IQ, IXON IQ Speed (obviously completely outclassed, because even the Edelux is outclassed)
2. Dosun D1, but I've put a link on my website to a Japanese website with beamshots which show the unevennes in the beam. So I doubt it's better. I doubt it's even close. I don't know what else is being said on that page btw., Google translation produces ununderstable rubbish.
3. B&M Big bang: Too expensive, HID = bluish and fragile.

So, at the moment there is no real competition.

Btw, USB cable: I have some, I think the right ones, but I have to look where they are...

Btw2, the latches of housing are probably strong enough. I think if those are damaged in a crash, the light would have had such a shock that something else is damaged beyond repair anyway. This because of the way the bottom section fits into the top section, and because the latches are placed in the right direction so that in most cases, there is no force on them (think about that when considering what can happen in a crash or if you drop it, by looking at the housing and how something can move in a crash against it, or the loose light itself is dropped).
 
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tandem

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Is Philips selling these lights in North America, specifically Canada, he asked hopefully, yet?

I'm wondering how it would compare against a Planet Bike Blaze 2W, or perhaps more fairly, against two such units.
 

panicmechanic

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@tandem: I didn't find it on their canadian web site. Over here, it was listed under 'automotive' at first.
You might want to contact them.

@swhs: changing to a more neutral tint could be a solution to several issues. Might solve the retroreflective blinding as well.
 

BrianMc

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@panicmechanic: made great points about why it might be a complete waste of time to stuff XP-Gs in there. Since the XP-E is available in warmer tints and is a similar size and more efficient (more light on medium setting for same or longer run time) a warmer tint XP-E pair may be a thought. A real crap shoot, but someone might get lucky.

@swhs:Since you cited your blog page and it has the Sanyo hub generator I will ask an OT but related question: what is your take on it in daily use? It is $40 US, the Novatron $50, the more recent 70 and 80 series Shimanos in the $110-125 range, and the Schmidt is in the $250-300 range depending on exchange rates. At $40, the Sanyo is a bit cheaper than a Shimano 105 front hub. More drag than either the Shimano or Schmidt but I didn't get a sense of whether it is good for the money or to be avoided. I has looks going for it. Considering a 650B wheelset for the errand bike and a dedicated generator light system is on the wish list.
 
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