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Thread: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

  1. #1

    Ooo Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Warning: pic heavy, as usual.

    UPDATE OCTOBER 19, 2011: Lumintop has sent me revised versions of the TD15X to test, along with dedicated multiple-cell battery tubes. You can read about them in my new review here.




    Specifications:
    • LED: CREE XM-L T6 LED
    • Max Output / Runtime: 720 lumens / 1 hour
    • Middle output / Runtime: 200 lumens / 4 hours
    • Low output / Runtime: 20 lumens / 35 hours
    • Length: 5.83 inches (148mm), Bezel Diameter 1.50 inches (38mm), Body Diameter 1 inches (25.4mm)
    • Weight: 5.3 ounces (150g)
    • Light Mode: Low-Middle-High-Strobe
    • Waterproof IPX-8
    • Battery Type: 2x CR123A batteries, 1x Li-ion 18650 or 1x 17670 battery
    • Battery Type with 1 x Extension Tube: 3x CR123A batteries
    • Battery Type with 2 x Extension Tube: 4x CR123A , 2x Li-ion 18650 or 2x 17670 batteries
    • Precision reflector creates smooth, optimized beam
    • Coated tempered window resists impact, 99% Transmission of light, protect the reflector and LED
    • Four output mode by loosen and tighten the bezel to switch - lowest for longest runtime, highest for maximum light, and strobe for tactical
    • High-strength aerospace aluminum body, Mil-Spec hard-anodized for extreme durability
    • Tactical tailcap switch - press for momentary-on, click for constant-on
    • High ductility steel clip provides multiple carry options
    • Anti-reverse protection circuit
    • Weatherproof O-Ring sealed that keep moisture, dust and dirt outside of your flashlight
    • Wear resistant square thread
    • Stainless steel crenelated Strike Bezel and scalloped tailcap provide further defensive options.
    • Intelligent memory circuitry memorizes last mode when activating the light.
    • Combat Ring with anti-rolling design for secure hold in all conditions
    • Included accessories: holster, lanyard, body clip, two spare o-rings, and a rubber switch boot.
    • Estimated MSRP ~$99

    Following on the heels of Lumintop’s popular XP-G thrower (the recently reviewed TD-15), here is a revised model featuring the new Cree high-output XM-L emitter (TD-15X). Let’s see how it compares, shall we? …





    On the surface, the TD-15X looks much the same – in fact, they don’t seem to have updated the packaging yet (i.e. it still shows the TD-15’s specs)! As before, packaging is fairly typical, with the light, good quality wrist lanyard, decent quality holster, spare o-rings and boot cap, replacement cover for the attached pocket clip. There was no manual with my TD-15X.

    Here’s how the TD-15/TD-15X compare to other lights, with or without the battery extender (shown below with 0, 1 or 2 extenders in place).


    From left to right: Redilast 18650, Lumintop TD-15, TD-15X, ArmyTek Predator, 4Sevens Maelstrom G5, Ray Tactical X60, Xtar D01



    From left to right: Redilast 18650, Lumintop TD-15, TD-15X (1 extender), Olight M31, JetBeam M1X, Fenix TK45, Eagletac M3C4


    From left to right: Redilast 18650, Lumintop TD-15, TD-15X (2 extenders), Olight M31 (with extender), Thrunite Catapult V2, JetBeam M1X (with extender), Fenix TK45.

    TD-15X (no extender): Weight 150.3g (no batteries), Length 147.3mm x Width 37.8mm (bezel)
    TD-15 (no extender): Weight: 139.2g (no batteries), Length 148.7mm x Width 37.8mm (bezel)
    Each extender adds 15.2g weight and 34.4mm length

    The TD-15X is consistent with the TD-15 in overall build, but is a lot smaller and lighter than other high-output XM-L lights.






    The build looks much the same, except for the extra “X” label after the model number. O-rings have changed from orange to black. And the screw threads in the head have been altered on the TD-15X – there is no longer any “wiggle” when loosened.

    Build quality remains very high, as before. Screw threads are square-cut, and anodized at the tailcap for lock-out.

    Anodizing is again perfect on my sample, no chips in a gloss black (HA = type III). Knurling is acceptable, if a bit smooth, and the light has a lot of features that help with grip. Lettering is sharp and clear, in bright white against the shiny black finish.

    Light can tailstand. Note the removable scalloped stainless steel tailcap and bezel rings.

    Flat-top 18650s worked on my sample.

    Clip is similar to Olight lights, and is removable with an included cover to hide the attachment area.




    TD-15 (XP-G R5) on the left, TD-15X (XM-L) on the right.

    The TD-15 featured Cree XP-G R5, and the new TD-15X has the high-output Cree XM-L emitter. FYI, the reflector seems to be same on both versions - basically smooth, with a very light "feathering" effect, as shown above. As the XM-L has a much larger die, it is clear that this light will not throw as well as the smaller XP-G. However, the XM-L can output a lot more light overall, so will that be enough to compensate? Let us see …

    All lights are on Hi on AW protected 18650, about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences.









    Note that I accidentally left my TD-15 on Hi, not Turbo for these shots. Turbo would be slightly brighter - scroll down to the runtimes for an output comparison.

    I've recently updated my 100-Yard Outdoor Beamshot Round-up, including the latest XM-L lights. Check out that round-up thread for more details on the testing method, plus higher quality JPEG images of all lights. For now, here is an animated GIF of relevant Lumintop and XM-L comparisons:



    Unfortunately, the snow cover leads to a lot reflections (both of the ambient background city lights and moonlight, as well as from the individual light spillbeams). But hopefully this helps provide a general idea of the difference in output and throw of the TD-15 and TD-15X.

    Simply put, the TD-15X has much higher overall output - especially on 2x Li-ion sources, where it is about twice as bright. But it still doesn’t throw quite as far as the original TD-15 (although it is close).



    In comparison to other high-output XM-L based lights, the TD15-X (on 2x Li-ion) has similar overall max output, but less throw than typical. This is likely due to smaller head.

    Scroll down to my summary table and runtime graphs for more comparisons.

    User Interface

    The UI of the TD-15X is similar to the TD-15, but slightly simplified.

    As before, turn the light on by pressing the tailcap clicky (press for momentary on, click for locked on),

    Basic operation on both lights is controlled by loosen-tighten twisting of the head (i.e. similar to the Olight M20 and related lights). On the TD-15, this gave you Lo > Med > Hi, in repeating sequence. On the TD-15X, the sequence is Lo > Med > Hi > Strobe, in repeating sequence.

    On the TD-15, there was a "Tactical mode" that you accessed by doing a loosen-tighten twist twice in under 0.5 secs. This mode had two states - Turbo > Strobe - accessed in repeating sequence. The TD-15’s Turbo mode was slightly brighter than Hi originally, but quickly dropped down the regulated Hi level.

    The TD-15X dispenses with this dual setup, and simply has the 4 output modes available in sequence. The advantage is that you no longer need to do the special switching back and forth between Turbo/Strobe and the rest of the modes. The disadvantage is that Strobe is now on the main sequence.

    As before, the light has a memory mode, and retains the last setting used.

    PWM and Strobe

    As with the TD-15, the TD-15X has no evidence of PWM on any mode, leading me to believe it is current-controlled.



    Strobe is 9.6 Hz.

    Testing Method:

    All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

    I have recently devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lighbox values to Lumens thread for more info.

    Throw/Output Summary Chart:

    Effective November 2010, I have revised my summary tables to match with the current ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.sliderule.ca/FL1.htm for a description of the terms used in these tables.



    And from my TD-15 review to compare:



    These results confirm that the TD-15X is at least twice as bright overall (on 2x Li-ion), but still doesn't throw quite as far as the TD-15 (although it is close).

    Output/Runtime Comparison:

    How does the TD-15X compare to the original TD-15?





    First off, note that you do not get max possible output on 1x18650 (as expected - that's a lot to ask from a single 3.7V Li-ion source).

    On 2x or 3X battery sources (e.g. 2x18650, 3xCR123A/RCR, etc), the TD-15X can produce about twice the max output of the TD-15. Basically, you can think of the TD-15X's Hi mode as having twice the output, but only half the runtime as the TD-15 on Turbo (on the same batteries).

    In contrast, the TD-15X's Med mode is almost as bright as the TD-15 on Turbo, but with up to three times the runtime. There's the efficiency advantage of running a high-output emitter at lower drive currents.

    Here's how the TD-15X compares to other high-output SST-50/XM-L lights:













    As you can see, the TD-15X is nicely consistent with this class of high-output lights. In some cases (especially on Med), it seems to outperform.

    Potential Issues

    The output and current drive level is very high 2x or 3x battery sources, so 2xCR123A/RCR should not be used (due to excessive discharge rates). 2xIMR RCR would be acceptable, but I don't recommend using unprotected cells in this light (i.e. no low-voltage cut-off feature).

    Given the relatively small build of the TD-15X compared to other lights driven at these levels, I am concerned about the longevity of the emitter and circuit if run on Hi for extended periods (i.e. lower mass and presumed lower heatsinking ability).

    Strobe mode is now on the main sequence of the TD-15X (i.e. no longer "hidden").

    Preliminary Observations

    The TD-15X delivers the same relative performance as the "big gun" high-output XM-L lights. But it does so in the much smaller body of the TD-15 (which is itself a top-performing XP-G thrower).

    This is an interesting crossing of classes. Although I'm all in favor of reusing successful designs, this one comes with a big caveat - do not run it on Hi with 2xCR123A or 2xRCR (except maybe IMR cells). It would not be safe for the cells, due to the high discharge rate. I recommend you stick with 1x18650, or use one battery extender for 3xCR123A/3xRCR/2x18650 (or 2 extenders and 2x18650).

    However you choose to run the light, I also recommend you limit your use of Hi to short periods of time only, due to the lower mass (and presumed lower heatsinking) of this light compared to other dedicated high output lights.

    That being said, runtime performance is excellent, on all battery sources and at all levels tested. The Med mode is particularly impressive - you can certainly see the benefits of taking a high-output emitter and running it at lower drive currents.

    I suspect we will start seeing a lot of XM-L-based lights in this 1x18650 form factor (and smaller), due to the improved efficiency at lower outputs. Max output will likely be lower on most multi-power lights in this size class, but I note that the TD-15X is not as heavily driven on 1x18650. But it still qualifies as the brightest 1x18650 light I've seen to date.

    In terms of throw, it's interesting to see what happens when you take the much larger die of the XM-L and fit it to a smaller reflector designed for maximum throw with an XP-G. Throw is obviously going to be reduced, for the same relative output level. But even with the doubled max output possible in this case, peak center throw is still not quite up to TD-15's level (although it is close).

    Build-wise, I'm glad to see they've resolved the "wiggle" issue when the head is loosened. But I personally don't like seeing Strobe on the main sequence.

    All in all, this is an interesting (and relatively inexpensive) high-output option for those who like the TD-15's form factor. But I would consider this an "enthusiast" light, as you need to pay careful attention to battery configurations on Hi.

    UPDATE February 13, 2011: It seems there are a couple of versions of this light being sold - some with and some without strobe (i.e. L > M > H > S, or L > M > H sequence). It also seems like some of the more recent versions are not as heavily-driven on 2x/3x battery sources as mine (but may be higher-driven on 1x). I am still awaiting word from Lumintop, so scroll down this thread for a discussion.
    ----

    TD-15X provided by Lumintop for review.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 01-17-2012 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by monanoke on 02-04-2011 10:14 PM GMT

    Excellent review, that I wish I had read before I bought and recently sold this very nice light. Just did not fit my needs but fortunately my Father-in-laws needs perfectly. Thanks again!

    P.S. Am I reading that Max graph correctly in that the TD-15x ran longer with a single 18650, than with 2 x 18650? (1hr31min vs. 1hr7min)
    Written by Glow_Worm on 02-04-2011 11:08 PM GMT

    Great review as always selfbuilt! I wonder if there are slightly different circuit versions of the TD-15X out there (as there are versions both w/ and w/o the strobe mode). On my sample, I don't see a significant difference in brightness between single and multi-cell configurations. I got mine about 2 weeks ago from Going Gear, and tested it with various combinations of cells with my light meter in a small half-bath in my house. While I'm a little disappointed that I don't get a big brightness increase with additional cells, it does make the decision of which configuration I will use a lot easier, as I greatly prefer the shorter size and less worry of the single cell version when there's not a huge difference in output. The multi-cell configs hold their brightness much better over an extended period, but at least the single cell declines fairly gracefully as the battery is depleted rather than shutting off abruptly when the protection circuit kicks in.

    Anyway, here's the bounce values I get with mine, along with comparisons to some of my other lights:

    TD-15x, 1 x AW18650 ... 87.1

    TD-15X, 2 x AW18500 ... 85.1

    TD-15x, 2 x AW18650 ... 84.4

    TD-15X, 3 x CR123 ... 85.8

    TD-15X, 2 x IMR16340 ... 87.0

    JetBeam M2S, 2 x AW18500 ... 89.1

    Surefire M3LT-S, 2 x AW17500 ... 76.0

    EagleTac M2XC4 Neutral, 2 x AW18650 ... 73.5

    G5 Maelstrom, 1 x AW18650 ... 42.5

    ZebraLight SC51, 1 x NiZn ... 28.2

    Anto XPG-R4, 1 x AW18650 ... 40.2

    HDS Hi-CRI, 1 x AW RCR123 ... 14.2

    The HDS Hi-CRI Clicky is supposedly calibrated at 100 lumens, and the Anto XP-G R4 is one I bought from bigchellis that he tested at right around 300 lumens. If the bounce values scale to lumens (and I'm sure they don't exactly, as my light meter is a cheap DX model, and a bounce test in a half-bath is far from an integrating sphere), my TD-15X seems to put out around 600 lumens initially on all of my battery combinations.

    I also did a 5-minute test to see how quickly the brightness drops with a single 18650 vs. two IMR 16340's, and got these values:

    1 x AW18650

    Mins Lux

    0 ... 87.1

    1 ... 84.6

    2 ... 82.5

    3 ... 81.2

    4 ... 80.2

    5 ... 79.2

    2 x IMR16340

    Mins Lux

    0 ... 87.0

    1 ... 85.6

    2 ... 85.1

    3 ... 84.7

    4 ... 84.3

    5 ... 84.0

    I really like this light a lot; puts out as much light (at least initially) as some of my larger lights, in a more compact package. I am curious why my example doesn't seem much brighter in the multi-cell configurations, but I'm still very happy with it in any event. It feels like a real bargain at $99.
    Written by samm on 02-04-2011 11:26 PM GMT

    Your review is outstanding thank you, it answered all the questions I've been thinking about my new light. I bought the TD-15X about a month ago from Going Gear also and I really like it. I run it with the two extenders and two AW18650 /2900mAh so I guess I'm good to go. I was actually planning on picking up another two extenders and a AW 18650/2900 battery for it this week. It will be the light I keep in my trunk. From what I've read extreme cold takes its toll on the batteries in winter and in summer I should keep them a little less than fully charged, is that correct? Again your review is great and this forum is the best light forum.
    Written by xtestifyx on 02-05-2011 01:20 AM GMT

    Very nice and detailed review

    I could be a little biased, but something about the maelstrom G5 just scream simplicity and function more so than the TD15

    Thanks for the review!
    Written by xed888 on 02-05-2011 05:40 AM GMT

    Selfbuilt,

    Many thanks for the review! Great work! the TD 15X is all I have read it to be!
    Written by selfbuilt on 02-05-2011 09:15 AM GMT

    Glad you are enjoying the review everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by monanoke
    P.S. Am I reading that Max graph correctly in that the TD-15x ran longer with a single 18650, than with 2 x 18650? (1hr31min vs. 1hr7min)
    Yes, although I missed a digit on the figure legend - it's actually 1hr 17min for 2x18650 (fixed). Yes, although I missed a digit on the figure legend - it's actually 1hr 17min for 2x18650 (fixed).

    The reason for this is the much higher - and regulated - output on 2x18650. Note that my ROV scale is not linear for output. If I convert to estimated lumens, on 2x18650 you level off around 750 lumens a few minutes into the run, and are still pretty close to that an hour later. On 1x18650, you start off around 600 lumens, but rapidly decay over the course of an hour to a little over 400 lumens.

    This difference in output, along with the more efficient direct-driving of the emitter, explains to comparable runtimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glow_Worm
    Great review as always selfbuilt! I wonder if there are slightly different circuit versions of the TD-15X out there (as there are versions both w/ and w/o the strobe mode). On my sample, I don't see a significant difference in brightness between single and multi-cell configurations. ... my TD-15X seems to put out around 600 lumens initially on all of my battery combinations. ... I also did a 5-minute test to see how quickly the brightness drops with a single 18650 vs. two IMR 16340's, and got these values:
    That's very interesting. As you can tell from my outdoor pics, there is quite a difference between 1x18650 and 2x18650 on my sample. That's very interesting. As you can tell from my outdoor pics, there is quite a difference between 1x18650 and 2x18650 on my sample.

    I agree with your estimate - from your data, it sounds like your light is putting out ~600 lumens initially (based on the comparison to the M2XC4, the only other high output light we share). That is the level of 1x18650 on my sample.

    Based on your runtime data, is seems like the 2x configurations are regulated at this same level as the un-regulated 1x18650 (I commend you on your detailed testing, BTW ). Thus, it looks like they have fixed the max output to the lower ~600 lumen level.

    Have you tried 3x sources? That would be interesting to compare. Also, have you tried full runtimes on the 2x AW 18500 or 18650 cells on Hi? That would be another way to compare to my results - if they last longer, that would strongly indicate lower output. Note that I use the 2200mAh 18650 cells.

    While I realize some here would be disappointed by this development, I personally am in favour of it, if it pans out. I frankly find this light is driven too high on 2x sources, and would like to see the max output capped at a lower level. I wonder if other people have reported similar consistent levels? ...

    Quote Originally Posted by samm
    YFrom what I've read extreme cold takes its toll on the batteries in winter and in summer I should keep them a little less than fully charged, is that correct?
    I'd recommend you check in with the experts in the electronics/battery subforum, but as a general rule extreme temperature can affect the longevity of cells. So does overcharging, so it's probably best to always store them a little less than fully charged. I'd recommend you check in with the experts in the electronics/battery subforum, but as a general rule extreme temperature can affect the longevity of cells. So does overcharging, so it's probably best to always store them a little less than fully charged.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-05-2011 09:31 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by xtestifyx
    Very nice and detailed review

    I could be a little biased, but something about the maelstrom G5 just scream simplicity and function more so than the TD15

    Thanks for the review!
    I have the Maelstrom and it is a pretty good light. One issue is loosening the head to reach the modes. You have to loosen more to get to the lower modes and if your battery isn't oversize it gets loose between the contacts. Even my AW batteries don't work with complete reliability. There are no clear detents and you have to play around to set the appropriate mode. I have the Maelstrom and it is a pretty good light. One issue is loosening the head to reach the modes. You have to loosen more to get to the lower modes and if your battery isn't oversize it gets loose between the contacts. Even my AW batteries don't work with complete reliability. There are no clear detents and you have to play around to set the appropriate mode.

    This has never been an issue with my Olight M20 or M21 because the head is always tight after you select the mode. The TD15 is suppose to work the same way which I find much simpler and a whole lot more reliable.

    Don't get me started on the Maelstrom's less than stellar tailcap.

    Since this is the XM-L version of the TD15 it would be much brighter than the Maelstrom as well.

    I think I need one!!!
    Written by SCEMan on 02-05-2011 10:04 AM GMT

    "The disadvantage is that Strobe is now on the main sequence. "

    That's a deal-breaker for me. Didn't they learn what the desired UI was from the TD15 revision?

    BTW: Selfbuilt - Another great job as always! Any plans for a Fenix TK35 review?
    Written by dannstrait on 02-05-2011 10:41 AM GMT

    Fantastic review, Selfbuilt. We're so spoiled.

    Can you give any comment on how hot the TD-15X feels after say, 20 min on max compared to the TD-15?

    Is it uncomfortable to hold? Do the batteries (especially the front cell in 2x config) get hot?
    Written by ThumperACC on 02-05-2011 11:44 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by SCEMan
    "The disadvantage is that Strobe is now on the main sequence. "
    Hi, there is a version without the strobe. The one I bought from SBFlashlights (and I believe the one HIDBlue sells) does not have a strobe. Hi -> Med -> Low ... repeat. Hi, there is a version without the strobe. The one I bought from SBFlashlights (and I believe the one HIDBlue sells) does not have a strobe. Hi -> Med -> Low ... repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannstrait
    Can you give any comment on how hot the TD-15X feels after say, 20 min on max compared to the TD-15?

    Is it uncomfortable to hold? Do the batteries (especially the front cell in 2x config) get hot?
    I ran mine for 60 minutes straight on 3 CR123s, holding it about 1 minute out of each 5 minute period. When I'd first pick it up after it laying on the table for 4 minutes, it was on the verge of being uncomfortable to hold. After about 10 seconds of holding it, my hand cooled it enough to be comfortable. I'd imagine if you were holding it continuously you could go indefinitely and still be able to hold it. I ran mine for 60 minutes straight on 3 CR123s, holding it about 1 minute out of each 5 minute period. When I'd first pick it up after it laying on the table for 4 minutes, it was on the verge of being uncomfortable to hold. After about 10 seconds of holding it, my hand cooled it enough to be comfortable. I'd imagine if you were holding it continuously you could go indefinitely and still be able to hold it.

    ThumperACC
    Written by brightnorm on 02-05-2011 06:12 PM GMT

    Really terrific review that answers many questions and clarifies performance and options. So helpful! A+

    Brightnorm
    Written by xtestifyx on 02-05-2011 08:34 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    I have the Maelstrom and it is a pretty good light. One issue is loosening the head to reach the modes. You have to loosen more to get to the lower modes and if your battery isn't oversize it gets loose between the contacts. Even my AW batteries don't work with complete reliability. There are no clear detents and you have to play around to set the appropriate mode.

    This has never been an issue with my Olight M20 or M21 because the head is always tight after you select the mode. The TD15 is suppose to work the same way which I find much simpler and a whole lot more reliable.

    Don't get me started on the Maelstrom's less than stellar tailcap.

    Since this is the XM-L version of the TD15 it would be much brighter than the Maelstrom as well.

    I think I need one!!!
    Thanks for the explanation, I personally like the G5 just because of the twisting head. I too have problems with AW's non button top cell, but negated the problem with a Redilast battery. Thanks for the explanation, I personally like the G5 just because of the twisting head. I too have problems with AW's non button top cell, but negated the problem with a Redilast battery.

    I do remember a mod that a CPF member did with a 2.8Amp Driver from DX and an XM-L Emitter. It yielded a good 600-700 solid Lumens which is pretty interesting

    I don't think the tail cap is much of an issue, but I don't know your experience with it. 4Seven's CS is pretty impeccable. Be sure to drop them a call, they're friendly!
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 03-11-2011 at 01:53 PM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by wacbzz on 02-05-2011 11:12 PM GMT

    Great review Selfbuilt. This just further validates all that both ManChow and I have written about this light.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThumperACC
    Hi, there is a version without the strobe. The one I bought from SBFlashlights (and I believe the one HIDBlue sells) does not have a strobe. Hi -> Med -> Low ... repeat.
    Written by Glow_Worm on 02-06-2011 03:24 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt
    That's very interesting. As you can tell from my outdoor pics, there is quite a difference between 1x18650 and 2x18650 on my sample.

    ...

    Also, have you tried full runtimes on the 2x AW 18500 or 18650 cells on Hi? That would be another way to compare to my results - if they last longer, that would strongly indicate lower output. Note that I use the 2200mAh 18650 cells.
    Selfbuilt, I tried your suggestion with full run-times on High with 3 different configurations. My run-time w/ 2xAW18500 (1500 mAh) was 77 mins vs. your 56 mins, so I'm pretty well convinced mine has a slightly different regulation than yours. On the other hand my 1xAW18650 (2200 mAh) run-time was only 72 mins vs. your 91 mins. Go figure. Selfbuilt, I tried your suggestion with full run-times on High with 3 different configurations. My run-time w/ 2xAW18500 (1500 mAh) was 77 mins vs. your 56 mins, so I'm pretty well convinced mine has a slightly different regulation than yours. On the other hand my 1xAW18650 (2200 mAh) run-time was only 72 mins vs. your 91 mins. Go figure.

    Anyway, here's what my results look like with 1x18650, 2x18500, and 2xIMR16340 (550mAh). I used a fan to cool the light for the 18650 and 18500 tests, but only used occasional hand cooling on the 16340 test, so I think it's brightness levels might have better matched the 2x18500 had I used a fan on it as well.



    Thanks for the suggestion to confirm the apparently different circuit in my sample.
    Written by xed888 on 02-06-2011 03:36 AM GMT

    Glowworm,

    Does your sample have the strobe function? this is just to determine whether yours and Selfbuilt's samples are indeed different.
    Written by Glow_Worm on 02-06-2011 10:38 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by xed888
    Glowworm,

    Does your sample have the strobe function? this is just to determine whether yours and Selfbuilt's samples are indeed different.
    Yes, mine has the strobe mode (I actually wish it didn't). Yes, mine has the strobe mode (I actually wish it didn't).
    Written by Neo9710 on 02-06-2011 12:11 PM GMT

    THANK YOU SELFBUILT...Looks like Im gonna pick this baby up...Now from where...
    Written by selfbuilt on 02-06-2011 12:35 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Glow_Worm
    Selfbuilt, I tried your suggestion with full run-times on High with 3 different configurations. My run-time w/ 2xAW18500 (1500 mAh) was 77 mins vs. your 56 mins, so I'm pretty well convinced mine has a slightly different regulation than yours. On the other hand my 1xAW18650 (2200 mAh) run-time was only 72 mins vs. your 91 mins. Go figure.

    Thanks for the runtimes. It makes it very clear that your circuit performs differently from mine Thanks for the runtimes. It makes it very clear that your circuit performs differently from mine

    I'm going to suggest that yours may be slightly brighter than mine on 1x18650 (hence the slightly lower runtime you had). But the difference from mine on 2x cells is very clear - yours must not be driven as hard.

    BTW, I tried 2x IMR RCR cells, and got 16 mins until 50% - quite a bit less than you (under a cooling fan the whole time). This again supports that lower max output on your sample. Frankly, I think that's a good deal for you - much better to be running the light at a little bit lower than absolute max power.

    I've asked Lumintop for more info on the these circuit differences (also the strobe mode issue), and will let you know when I hear back. But since we are in the middle of Chinese New Year, it may not be until the middle of this coming week.
    Written by xed888 on 02-06-2011 02:18 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt
    Glad you are enjoying the review everyone.

    Yes, although I missed a digit on the figure legend - it's actually 1hr 17min for 2x18650 (fixed).

    The reason for this is the much higher - and regulated - output on 2x18650. Note that my ROV scale is not linear for output. If I convert to estimated lumens, on 2x18650 you level off around 750 lumens a few minutes into the run, and are still pretty close to that an hour later. On 1x18650, you start off around 600 lumens, but rapidly decay over the course of an hour to a little over 400 lumens.

    This difference in output, along with the more efficient direct-driving of the emitter, explains to comparable runtimes.

    That's very interesting. As you can tell from my outdoor pics, there is quite a difference between 1x18650 and 2x18650 on my sample.

    I agree with your estimate - from your data, it sounds like your light is putting out ~600 lumens initially (based on the comparison to the M2XC4, the only other high output light we share). That is the level of 1x18650 on my sample.

    Based on your runtime data, is seems like the 2x configurations are regulated at this same level as the un-regulated 1x18650 (I commend you on your detailed testing, BTW ). Thus, it looks like they have fixed the max output to the lower ~600 lumen level.

    Have you tried 3x sources? That would be interesting to compare. Also, have you tried full runtimes on the 2x AW 18500 or 18650 cells on Hi? That would be another way to compare to my results - if they last longer, that would strongly indicate lower output. Note that I use the 2200mAh 18650 cells.

    While I realize some here would be disappointed by this development, I personally am in favour of it, if it pans out. I frankly find this light is driven too high on 2x sources, and would like to see the max output capped at a lower level. I wonder if other people have reported similar consistent levels? ...

    I'd recommend you check in with the experts in the electronics/battery subforum, but as a general rule extreme temperature can affect the longevity of cells. So does overcharging, so it's probably best to always store them a little less than fully charged.
    Could it be that Glowworm's torch is the 620 lmn one and the one sent to Selfbuilt, the 720 lms torch? I doubt it as Lumintop's website states that they just upgraded the rating and that it wasn't a new torch.

    Any comments, guys?
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-06-2011 04:37 PM GMT

    Thanks for the review. It is very helpful and informative. How is the tint on the new TD15X? Is it similar to the Catapult XM-L V2 or warmer/cooler than it?
    Written by Glow_Worm on 02-06-2011 05:24 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt
    I've asked Lumintop for more info on the these circuit differences (also the strobe mode issue), and will let you know when I hear back. But since we are in the middle of Chinese New Year, it may not be until the middle of this coming week.
    Great! I'd love to hear what Lumintop says when they get back to you, and I appreciate your insights. Thanks again for all you do. Great! I'd love to hear what Lumintop says when they get back to you, and I appreciate your insights. Thanks again for all you do.
    Written by selfbuilt on 02-08-2011 07:41 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone
    Thanks for the review. It is very helpful and informative. How is the tint on the new TD15X? Is it similar to the Catapult XM-L V2 or warmer/cooler than it?
    So far, all my high-output XM-L lights have been pretty much premium white in tint, with little difference between them. Of course, YMMV ... So far, all my high-output XM-L lights have been pretty much premium white in tint, with little difference between them. Of course, YMMV ...
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-08-2011 08:47 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt
    So far, all my high-output XM-L lights have been pretty much premium white in tint, with little difference between them. Of course, YMMV ...
    That is nice to hear. I ordered this light from TacticalHID last night(without strobe). Your review helped me feel confident about this purchase. Thanks again for the great work on your reviews! That is nice to hear. I ordered this light from TacticalHID last night(without strobe). Your review helped me feel confident about this purchase. Thanks again for the great work on your reviews!
    Written by bigchelis on 02-08-2011 09:22 AM GMT

    I currently have this light at my place an I have to give LuminTop two thumbs up on the XM-L version. Nice beam and good output considering the low current at the LED.

    Here is what I got.
    Hosts ___________Drop-in__________ Cells________ Lumens____ Time____ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)
    Lumentop TD-15X__________XM-L____________2 IMR 18500_____________678.6______1 sec________________________
    _______________________________________________________________665.5______30 sec_______________________
    ________________________________________1.16A atTail_____________ 660.7______1 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________659.5______2 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________657.1______3 min________________________
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-08-2011 11:07 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis
    I currently have this light at my place an I have to give LuminTop two thumbs up on the XM-L version. Nice beam and good output considering the low current at the LED.
    Are you going to test 1x18650 with this light? Are you going to test 1x18650 with this light?
    Written by bigchelis on 02-08-2011 11:33 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone
    Are you going to test 1x18650 with this light?
    I guess I should, but I don't expect the OTF numbers to be as good. I guess I should, but I don't expect the OTF numbers to be as good.
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-08-2011 06:46 PM GMT

    I was just wondering since 1x18650 is how I plan to run the light. I actually like that it isn't fully regulated on 1x18650 so that I will know when it is getting time to either switch the battery or go to a lower mode. It looks like 1x18650 is somewhere between 60-80% OTF of 2x18650.
    Written by selfbuilt on 02-09-2011 07:15 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis
    I guess I should, but I don't expect the OTF numbers to be as good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone
    I was just wondering since 1x18650 is how I plan to run the light. I actually like that it isn't fully regulated on 1x18650 so that I will know when it is getting time to either switch the battery or go to a lower mode. It looks like 1x18650 is somewhere between 60-80% OTF of 2x18650.
    I'm quite curious as your results as well, bigchelis. It will be interesting to see if yours performs like mine (i.e. a large difference between 1x and 2x), or like Glow_Worms's (i.e. little difference, but likely an intermediate output level compared to mine). I'm quite curious as your results as well, bigchelis. It will be interesting to see if yours performs like mine (i.e. a large difference between 1x and 2x), or like Glow_Worms's (i.e. little difference, but likely an intermediate output level compared to mine).

    Written by xed888 on 02-09-2011 07:41 AM GMT

    Hi guys,

    I think i may have just reported the first problem for the TD 15X.

    My max mode has disappeared! I have a fully charged AW 2900 in it and there is no difference between mid and max. low and strobe works though.

    I have 2 extenders and using two AW's yielded no difference either in luminosity.

    any suggestions?
    Written by jhc37013 on 02-09-2011 09:31 PM GMT

    I got my TD15X today and I'm surprised the quality of this light is so good considering the price. It is freakishly bright and the tint is good, I'm beginning to see a pattern of good tints with the XM-L light's I have bought this far no matter the manufacturer.

    Thanks guys for the runtime graphs I think I will order a couple 18500's that seems to be the best size/output ratio according to the run times. I'd say to those members who have been on the fence with this light like I was go ahead and get it I don't see how you could be disappointed, I ordered from Tactical HID and thankfully mine did not come with any SOS or Strobe.
    Written by easilyled on 02-10-2011 09:49 AM GMT

    Excellent review. Many thanks.

    Spotted one tiny error:-



    Preliminary Observations

    The TD-15X delivers the same relative performance as the "big gun" high-output XM-L lights. But it does so in the much smaller body of the TD-15.

    This is an interesting crossing of classes. Although I'm all in favor of reusing successful designs, this one comes with a caveat - I recommend you do not run the TD-15X on Hi with 2xCR123A or 2xRCR (except maybe IMR cells). Best to stick with 1x18650, or use one battery extender for 3xCR123A/3xRCR/2x18650 (or 2 extenders and 2x18650).
    Should be 2X18500. Should be 2X18500.
    Written by bigchelis on 02-10-2011 12:46 PM GMT

    Just as I figured, its less lumens with less voltage input. The total watts appear to be less.

    Hosts ___________Drop-in__________ Cells________ Lumens____ Time____ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)
    Lumentop TD-15X__________XM-L____________1 IMR 18650_____________592.9______1 sec________________________
    _______________________________________________________________538.1______30 sec_______________________
    ________________________________________1.75A atTail_____________ 522.6______1 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________513.1______2 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________502.4______3 min________________________

    VS.

    Hosts ___________Drop-in__________ Cells________ Lumens____ Time____ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)
    Lumentop TD-15X__________XM-L____________2 IMR 18500_____________678.6______1 sec________________________
    _______________________________________________________________665.5______30 sec_______________________
    ________________________________________1.16A atTail_____________ 660.7______1 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________659.5______2 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________657.1______3 min________________________

    Written by selfbuilt on 02-10-2011 02:19 PM GMT


    Thanks bigchelis - sounds like yours works line mine then. Appreciate the detailed numbers. Thanks bigchelis - sounds like yours works line mine then. Appreciate the detailed numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled
    Spotted one tiny error:-Should be 2X18500.
    Fixed. Fixed.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 03-11-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by 357mag1 on 02-10-2011 03:14 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis
    Just as I figured, its less lumens with less voltage input. The total watts appear to be less.

    Hosts ___________Drop-in__________ Cells________ Lumens____ Time____ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)
    Lumentop TD-15X__________XM-L____________1 IMR 18650_____________592.9______1 sec________________________
    _______________________________________________________________538.1______30 sec_______________________
    ________________________________________1.75A atTail_____________ 522.6______1 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________513.1______2 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________502.4______3 min________________________

    VS.

    Hosts ___________Drop-in__________ Cells________ Lumens____ Time____ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)
    Lumentop TD-15X__________XM-L____________2 IMR 18500_____________678.6______1 sec________________________
    _______________________________________________________________665.5______30 sec_______________________
    ________________________________________1.16A atTail_____________ 660.7______1 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________659.5______2 min________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________657.1______3 min________________________

    Interesting. I just received mine and tailcap readings are 2042ma on one 18650 and 1010ma using two. If anything my sample looks slightly brighter using one 18650. Too bad you don't live nearby I would love to see how mine measures in your sphere. Interesting. I just received mine and tailcap readings are 2042ma on one 18650 and 1010ma using two. If anything my sample looks slightly brighter using one 18650. Too bad you don't live nearby I would love to see how mine measures in your sphere.
    Written by infinus on 02-10-2011 03:23 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    Interesting. I just received mine and tailcap readings are 2042ma on one 18650 and 1010ma using two. If anything my sample looks slightly brighter using one 18650. Too bad you don't live nearby I would love to see how mine measures in your sphere.
    Amperage at the tailcap will change as the voltage changes. If the battery is depleted and the voltage is sagging the current draw from a regulated light will be higher to compensate. Make sure you do your measurements with fully charged batteries. Amperage at the tailcap will change as the voltage changes. If the battery is depleted and the voltage is sagging the current draw from a regulated light will be higher to compensate. Make sure you do your measurements with fully charged batteries.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-10-2011 03:55 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by infinus
    Amperage at the tailcap will change as the voltage changes. If the battery is depleted and the voltage is sagging the current draw from a regulated light will be higher to compensate. Make sure you do your measurements with fully charged batteries.
    Those readings were with LG cells hot off the charger at 4.2V each. Those readings were with LG cells hot off the charger at 4.2V each.
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-10-2011 05:10 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis
    Just as I figured, its less lumens with less voltage input. The total watts appear to be less.
    Thank you for checking that out for us. Your hard work, time, and money invested greatly benefits the CPF community. Thank you for checking that out for us. Your hard work, time, and money invested greatly benefits the CPF community.

    Do you think the results would be pretty much the same with a standard 18650(Redilast 2900, e.g.) and not IMR? I don't know much about IMR cells other than that they can safely discharge at higher rates but have less capacity.
    Written by jhc37013 on 02-10-2011 11:39 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone
    Thank you for checking that out for us. Your hard work, time, and money invested greatly benefits the CPF community.

    Do you think the results would be pretty much the same with a standard 18650(Redilast 2900, e.g.) and not IMR? I don't know much about IMR cells other than that they can safely discharge at higher rates but have less capacity.
    They are both 4.2v so it should be the same brightness with longer runtime on the 18650, the amp draw is not high enough to be an issue with quality 18650. They are both 4.2v so it should be the same brightness with longer runtime on the 18650, the amp draw is not high enough to be an issue with quality 18650.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by selfbuilt on 02-11-2011 08:28 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    Interesting. I just received mine and tailcap readings are 2042ma on one 18650 and 1010ma using two. If anything my sample looks slightly brighter using one 18650. Too bad you don't live nearby I would love to see how mine measures in your sphere.
    I've just checked mine, and I get the following tailcap draws: I've just checked mine, and I get the following tailcap draws:

    1x18650 on Hi: 1.76A

    2x18650 on Hi: 1.31A

    As you can see, my 1x18650 current draw and estimated output are very consistent with bigchelis' actual measurements. My sample seems to be driven a bit hard on 2x18650, and my output estimates similarly seem to be slightly higher than bigchellis' actually measured lumens.

    It seems that there is some variability in the actual output levels on Hi, depending the battery source. I'm still waiting to see if Lumintop has any comment.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-11-2011 10:02 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by jhc37013
    They are both 4.2v so it should be the same brightness with longer runtime on the 18650, the amp draw is not high enough to be an issue with quality 18650.
    I can definitely be happy with over 500 lumens OTF on a single 18650 with around an hour of runtime! I can definitely be happy with over 500 lumens OTF on a single 18650 with around an hour of runtime!
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-11-2011 10:06 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    Interesting. I just received mine and tailcap readings are 2042ma on one 18650 and 1010ma using two. If anything my sample looks slightly brighter using one 18650. Too bad you don't live nearby I would love to see how mine measures in your sphere.
    Where did you purchase your light? Is it one without strobe from TacticalHID or someone else? Where did you purchase your light? Is it one without strobe from TacticalHID or someone else?
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-11-2011 10:13 AM GMT

    I wonder if Lumintop came out with an updated version that isn't quite as bright as the original on two cells but gives full regulation on one cell like 4Sevens did with the G5 Maelstrom?

    Going by tailcap current readings I would think bigchellis' and selfbuilt's samples are brighter on two cells than my TD-15X.

    My light came with up to date packaging with specifications claiming 620 lumens for Max output. No mention of ANSI rating or if that is for LED or OTF.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-11-2011 10:18 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tone
    Where did you purchase your light? Is it one without strobe from TacticalHID or someone else?
    I ordered mine from Going Gear. I ordered mine from Going Gear.

    It has low-medium-high-strobe outputs.
    Written by Glow_Worm on 02-11-2011 10:43 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    I wonder if Lumintop came out with an updated version that isn't quite as bright as the original on two cells but gives full regulation on one cell like 4Sevens did with the G5 Maelstrom?

    Going by tailcap current readings I would think bigchellis' and selfbuilt's samples are brighter on two cells than my TD-15X.

    My light came with up to date packaging with specifications claiming 620 lumens for Max output. No mention of ANSI rating or if that is for LED or OTF.
    Based on all the run-time curves I've seen, including my own, I don't think anyone has a version that is fully regulated on a single cell. With a single battery, the decline in brightness is steady down to 60% after about an hour, and then it pretty rapidly goes even faster downhill. With two or more cells, my unit holds almost rock-steady brightness until it falls off the cliff at the end. Based on all the run-time curves I've seen, including my own, I don't think anyone has a version that is fully regulated on a single cell. With a single battery, the decline in brightness is steady down to 60% after about an hour, and then it pretty rapidly goes even faster downhill. With two or more cells, my unit holds almost rock-steady brightness until it falls off the cliff at the end.

    I got mine from Going Gear, it has the strobe, and my packaging says 620 Lmns Max & 200 Lms Med. Based on my light meter measurements and comparing it to my 100 Lms OTF HDS in bounce tests, I think both those values are very close to what mine produces OTF.

    I believe selfbuilt's hypothesis is correct in that there are at least two variations out there, one (like his & bigchellis's) that produces close to 700 Lms OTF on multiple cells and more like 580 Lmns (initially) on a single cell, and another version (like mine and probably 357mag1's) that produces about 620 Lms on either one or more cells. With a single cell though, you'll only see that 620 Lm value at the very beginning of a run.

    It'll be interesting to see if Lumintop can confirm this, and explain which is the version currently being produced.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-11-2011 12:16 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Glow_Worm
    Based on all the run-time curves I've seen, including my own, I don't think anyone has a version that is fully regulated on a single cell. With a single battery, the decline in brightness is steady down to 60% after about an hour, and then it pretty rapidly goes even faster downhill. With two or more cells, my unit holds almost rock-steady brightness until it falls off the cliff at the end.

    I got mine from Going Gear, it has the strobe, and my packaging says 620 Lmns Max & 200 Lms Med. Based on my light meter measurements and comparing it to my 100 Lms OTF HDS in bounce tests, I think both those values are very close to what mine produces OTF.

    I believe selfbuilt's hypothesis is correct in that there are at least two variations out there, one (like his & bigchellis's) that produces close to 700 Lms OTF on multiple cells and more like 580 Lmns (initially) on a single cell, and another version (like mine and probably 357mag1's) that produces about 620 Lms on either one or more cells. With a single cell though, you'll only see that 620 Lm value at the very beginning of a run.

    It'll be interesting to see if Lumintop can confirm this, and explain which is the version currently being produced.
    With cells at 4.1V my version shows 1.7A at the tailcap. Looks like Glow Worm has it about right. Here I was hoping mine would regulate on one 18650. With cells at 4.1V my version shows 1.7A at the tailcap. Looks like Glow Worm has it about right. Here I was hoping mine would regulate on one 18650.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by FireHawk007 on 02-12-2011 10:21 PM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by SCEMan
    "The disadvantage is that Strobe is now on the main sequence. "
    Bought mine from SBFlashlights & it does NOT have strobe mode. It comes with 3 modes only: L/M/H Bought mine from SBFlashlights & it does NOT have strobe mode. It comes with 3 modes only: L/M/H
    Written by on 02-13-2011 01:05 AM GMT

    I have used mine on duty for a few days and I like the light thus far. It is very bright and the throw is decent for such a small reflector. I have also checked my readings at the tailcap and they are the same as many others reported here. I get about 1.7mA with a single 18650 and somewhere around 1.3mA using two of the 18650 cells.

    I know very little of how circuits work and I am curious as to how much the actual emitter is being driven at. Based on the numbers reported here can anyone take a guess as an average of how hard this emitter is being driven?

    I have a feeling the TD-15X is not being driven very hard due to the smaller heat sink area of this light. I was hoping for something around the 2.8 to even the 3mA range. I am not wishing to sidetrack this thread however if we are discussing the review of this light (very well done review by the way) the question will only add to the information of this review.

    So how does the tailcap readings of this light play into the actual power received at the emitter? Based on the numbers given in this thread what would the average power be at the emitter? This confused me a little as the tailcap readings seemed to be so low for such a sturdy emitter able to handle much more.
    Written by HKJ on 02-13-2011 03:54 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop
    So how does the tailcap readings of this light play into the actual power received at the emitter?
    A very rough estimate is: A very rough estimate is:

    With one LiIon cells the led current is the same as the tailcap current.

    With two LiIon cells the led current is twice the tailcap current.

    And I do not believe your current measurements, 1.3 mA is 0.0013 ampere!

    You measurements are directly in ampere, i.e. you must either write ampere or a single A. That little m changes the value by a factor 1000.
    Written by on 02-13-2011 04:04 AM GMT

    HKJ thank you for the information and I have no idea the correct way to write the value. I am pretty much out of the loop on the tech stuff however do enjoy learning. So the correct way to say what I was trying to say is my sample shows 1.3A with two 18650 and thus should be about 2.6A at the emitter?? (is this right)....and thanks again.
    Written by HKJ on 02-13-2011 04:24 AM GMT

    Yes.

    Bug again, it is a very rough guide, there are many factors involved: Actual battery voltage, voltage drop in meter, probe wires and connections, driver efficiency, actual led Vf.
    Written by Mr. Tone on 02-17-2011 08:34 PM GMT

    I am extremely impressed with this light. I can't beleive how much light I am getting out of something this size and on 1x18650. By the way, my box reads 620 lumens for high. I measured 1.7 amps drawn at the tail with a fully charged Redilast 2900 18650. The only things I would change about this light would be a more agressive knurling and a nice, neutral white LED.
    Written by easilyled on 02-18-2011 03:01 AM GMT

    I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere but as I can't find it I thought I'd ask if extensions come with the kit or need to be bought separately?

    It looks a lot of bang for the buck, but the fact that the regulation appears to vary (amongst the above reports) is slightly concerning to me.
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  8. #8
    Flashaholic* srfreddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    sbflashlights has gotten TD15X OP reflectors in. I have managed to get both the bezel and the tailcap stainless ring off with strap wrenches and pliers, though also scratching my lens. I need the OP cuz my TD15X has a fat donut hole.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Written by jhc37013 on 02-18-2011 03:20 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled
    I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere but as I can't find it I thought I'd ask if extensions come with the kit or need to be bought separately?

    It looks a lot of bang for the buck, but the fact that the regulation appears to vary (amongst the above reports) is slightly concerning to me.
    I'm not sure about other dealers but TacticalHID includes a extension tube for use of a extra cr123 or you can also use 2x18500 for maximum output and runtime with the one extender. You can also add an additional extender for a total of two which allows 4xcr123 or 2x18650.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-18-2011 05:40 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled
    I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere but as I can't find it I thought I'd ask if extensions come with the kit or need to be bought separately?

    It looks a lot of bang for the buck, but the fact that the regulation appears to vary (amongst the above reports) is slightly concerning to me.
    The light comes with one extender allowing you to run three CR123 batteries or use two 18500s. Additional tubes are available for around $6 so an extra would allow you to run two 18650s. The light comes with one extender allowing you to run three CR123 batteries or use two 18500s. Additional tubes are available for around $6 so an extra would allow you to run two 18650s.

    I liked my first one enough that I ordered a second on from a different dealer that isn't suppose to have strobe in the UI. It should arrive today.
    Written by easilyled on 02-18-2011 10:13 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1
    The light comes with one extender allowing you to run three CR123 batteries or use two 18500s. Additional tubes are available for around $6 so an extra would allow you to run two 18650s.

    I liked my first one enough that I ordered a second on from a different dealer that isn't suppose to have strobe in the UI. It should arrive today.
    Thanks for addressing my query Thanks for addressing my query

    It will be interesting to know if there are any obvious differences in brightness when comparing them with various battery configurations.
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-18-2011 07:05 PM GMT

    I received the TD-15X from Tactical Hid today. It does not have the strobe function as stated on their website. That is a definite positive for me.

    Outside testing reveals the "no strobe" version is obviously brighter though the difference isn't huge. Tail cap current using fully charged IMR 18500s in both lights measured 1210ma compared to 985ma for the "strobe" version.

    The following only applies to the "no strobe" version:

    Tailcap current readings with a Fluke 87 using short fat leads reads 2060 - 2080ma using single high quality 18650 Li-Ions right off the charger.

    The only cells in my collection I consider high quality are AW 18650s, LG, Panasonic, Samsung and Sanyo brands (I don't have any Redilast 18650s).

    All Tenergy and Ultrafire 18650s I own (4 and 6 respectively) measured between 1640 - 1850ma with most hovering around 1700ma. That is fresh off the charger and verified battery voltage at 4.2 (varied between 4.18 and 4.21).

    Once again we see that even at a 2A draw the lower quality cells are falling short or in this case sagging more under load. I have two newer Ultrafire 18650s that gave readings of 1890ma and 1970ma respectively. From experience I would almost guarantee they will fall in line with the other UF cells after about 5-6 cycles.

    Using IMR 18650s tailcap readings measured 2250-2280ma.

    IMR 26650s (used a solid aluminum rod) measured 2350-2380ma.

    4Sevens new 26650 measured 2270ma (only tried one).

    The following applies to the "strobe" version:

    Tailcap readings with quality Li-Ion cells were nearly identical to the "no strobe" version.

    Interestingly all except two UF and one Tenergy 18650 read slightly higher current say 2080ma on average compared to 2040ma for the better cells. The three odd balls read around 1750-1800ma. It appears those three sag below the regulation ability of the circuit.

    All 26650 IMR and 4Sevens Li-Ion cells measured 1960-1980ma.

    IMR 18650s draw the same and seem to stay regulated as far down as 3.94V static then start to taper off.

    It appears the quality Li-Ion 18650s start to drop out of regulation around 4.06V static.

    Just to be clear the "no strobe" version's tailcap current on a single cell starts to drop immediately upon turn on.

    With IMR 18650s the tailcap current on each version crosses over at about the 4.05V (static) point.

    I hope that long winded post makes sense and is somewhat useful to prospective buyers.
    Written by easilyled on 02-19-2011 04:20 AM GMT

    Very interesting info 357mag1, thanks.

    Now that you've done all the hard work, perhaps I should buy your brighter version from you?
    Written by 357mag1 on 02-19-2011 06:40 AM GMT

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled
    Very interesting info 357mag1, thanks.

    Now that you've done all the hard work, perhaps I should buy your brighter version from you?
    I would be reluctant to give up my "no blinky" version!!! I would be reluctant to give up my "no blinky" version!!!
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    The main review post has been updated with the final review text.

    The thread discussions have been fully restored from the search engine cache data (thank you tandem!).

    Please carry on!
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 03-11-2011 at 09:40 PM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    I did get the extra extenders, since I'm keeping the light in my trunk and want the longest runtime in an emergency. Am I safe to run the light on 3x18650 AW/2900?? Being careful to run it on high for only short periods of time. And what is a safe period of time 5 min or 10 min or less, or just when it feels hot? As backup batteries for this light should I just get some more AW18650/2900's. Or should I buy just some IMR RCR which I'm not familiar with yet. And not use the CR123's or RCR123A, or 16430 Trustfires, is that correct or not. Sorry to ask what might seem and easy question and possibly answered above , I've read this thread at least 4x's, lol. I'm learning, but a lot of the above is still over my head at this point. Thanks everyone, especially selfbuilt. All your reviews are outstanding!
    Last edited by samm; 03-13-2011 at 03:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* srfreddy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    3 RCR's will give you very low runtime. 3 AW's 2900's is fine, and I've run it for half an hour-just keep you hand on the head.
    Primaries are better backups-4.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by samm View Post
    I did get the extra extenders, since I'm keeping the light in my trunk and want the longest runtime in an emergency. Am I safe to run the light on 3x18650 AW/2900??
    3x18650 should be fine - better runtime than 3xRCR. But I would limit usage on max output, given the heat produced and low mass of the light.

    But for car storage as an emergency light, you are better sticking with primary CR123A, as srfreddy points out. They have much better heat (and especially cold) performance than Li-ion. Also, always make sure you store the light locked out for safety.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Sounds good! I do keep it locked out (thanks to the info from this forum.) Now I'll switch it out to primaries. Thanks selfbuilt and srfreddy.
    Last edited by samm; 03-13-2011 at 01:27 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    TD-15X Run Test on Low using 3xcr123 (Duracell)

    In this test I checked every few hours to see if I could still access High and Medium. It was able to do this up to 32:30 hrs but could only access medium (and low) after that. Then I ran it on medium for about 10 minutes after which it would only run in low, at which point the doorbell rang and unfortunately I turned the light off and didn't get back to it for several hours. When I turned it on it seemed quite dim. I removed the batteries.

    So the TD-15X ran on 3xcr123 for more than 33 hours on Low, allowing access to high for many short periods (approx 5-10 seconds). The TD-15X's low is actually a "higher low" than many other lights. I didn't expect the light to do this well.

    It would be an interesting but pretty inconvenient chore to do more of a "real life" test, alternating between high, medium and low for timed periods. I seem to recall an LEO on one of the review threads stating that he used it for quite a while on various levels.

    Selfbuilt, was it you who mentioned that you wouldn't recommend running the 15x on four cr123's?

    Brightnorm
    Last edited by brightnorm; 04-22-2011 at 02:15 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by brightnorm View Post
    Selfbuilt, was it you who mentioned that you wouldn't recommend running the 15x on four cr123's?
    Hmmm, wasn't me. I haven't tested 4xCR123A, but it according to the specs it should be alright. Assuming there was no change in output, you could extrapolate from the 3x runtimes to get a pretty good idea (i.e. add 33% more runtime for the effect of a fourth cell).
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Excellent data selfbuilt! Any update from Lumintop on the different outputs?

    How many extenders would you have to use for 3x18650s? Four?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Lumintop TD-15X (XM-L) High Output Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysimons View Post
    How many extenders would you have to use for 3x18650s? Four?
    Sounds about right, but accurately supporting varying 18650 cell length gets trickier the further out you go with extenders. Lumintop plans to release dedicated body tubes for multiple-18650 configurations. I will be providing an update soon, as I get a chance to test these.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 09-13-2011 at 01:14 PM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
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