Buying my 1st LED flashlight: Zebralight SC80 vs SC51 vs ThruNite T10 vs Fenix LD12

bon1

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UPDATE:

I've modified the title to reflect the path this thread lead me to.
You can safely skip down to post #30.
Thank you :)

Hi guys,

I currently have an old incan mini Maglite (too long to be pocketable and it does not output enough light to be really useful) and I'll soon be buying my first LED flashlight.

Also, I learned here on the forum why LSD NiMH batteries are so great so that's what I will be using most of the time, but I really need to be able to use my flashlight with AA Alkalines in case of emergencies, etc.

I have the feeling from having been reading on this forum for a while that several lights lack on the quality control department while other lights may not have a great user interface. So I hope you guys can point me in the right direction.

Apparently, it seems that there's lights with "PWM" that are not easy on the eyes, so I would favor the current-controlled ones. But, again, I have no idea which lights use one technology or the other.

Other features I'm looking for are:
  • Reverse polarity protection.
  • Good grip, yet easily pocketable. I guess this means an overall length somewhere between 90 mm and 110 mm.
  • This will be my primary flahslight, so it must be reliable and efficient with the use of batteries.
  • Enough modes (lumen output) to make the flashlight usable in all situations, yet I do not want any strobing or disco modes. But I could accept this modes if they're so well hidden that's nearly impossible to turn them accidentally on.
  • The flashlight should be somewhat drop resistant, the glass too.
  • As always, the cheaper the better, but I guess I could fork up to 60 or perhaps 70 USD shipped to Europe.
After browsing this forum for countless hours, I came to like the following lights:
  • Sunwayman V10A--PWM?
  • Fenix E11--poor quality head?
  • Klarus P1A--only low and high, but is the low high enough to be useful most of the time providing a long runtime on a single AA?
  • Xeno E03--does it have switch issues? Good enough electrical contact between tailcap and main body?
Please, let me know if there's any alternatives to the above lights. Also, I would like to know if the above lighs have any issues, anything ranging from poor quality control, manufacturing defects, reliability, etc. to a poorly designed user interface.

Suggestions on where to buy this torch will be highly welcome. :)

Eventually, I'm searching for a flashlight one can depend on.

Thank you in advance! :)
 
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Dougcov

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

mini mag useful for those late night trips to the can
try streamlight - protac AA, much more power, mot too expensive, pocket size, tough
 

joe1512

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Sounds like you've done a good deal of research already. The problem is that AAs tend to cause some issues with getting a nice form factor.

The 2xAA is what you want, but it is going to be longer. But skinny so you can still kind of pocket it. That gives enough voltage to drive an XP-G emitter at 200+ lumens.

A 1xAA light is a bit limited in output and runtime, despite being pretty easy to carry.

So we have a few options:

a) Consider a Romisen Flood to Throw light that uses 3xAAA batteries. 3xAAA makes for a short light that is slightly fatter than AA but not by much. Has the voltage to drive an emitter decently. Flood to throws are neat because of the nice smooth beam with no hotspot. They are my favorite worklights. For 25 bucks max, they are pretty decent.
However they have 3 modes, High, Medium, and yucky STROBE. Bleaugh.


b) The Olight 35 uses 3xAAs. Kind of fat, but not very long. 3 brightness levels up to 400+ lumens. 84 USD though.


c) The ZebraLight makes very efficient 1xAA lights that hit 200 lumens. The NiteCore EZ AA is 60 bucks and pretty solid.


Your suggestions:

Xeno E03. Needs a Rechargable Lithium battery to get those levels of brightness. Without it, its a pretty average light.

Klarus P1A - 2 levels kind of sucks.

Fenix E11 - crap. Old emitter, 105 lumens.

sunwayman v10a - Ding Ding Ding. This might be your winner. Decent XP-G emitter, variable brightness adjustment which is really cool.

heres a review: They didnt detect any PWM issues. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...tinuously-Variable)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS
 

CrazyHighVoltage

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

hi bon1

i have the fenix e11 mine doesnt have a poor qualay head it feels bombproof and its cheap
but the mode spacing isnt great because it doesnt have a realy low low,
personely i would go for the sunwayman v10a.
 

davecroft

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Might be worth taking a look at the Jetbeam BA10 or BA20. Only 2 modes, but they are well built lights at a good price.

I like the Fenix E11, for the money I think it is hard to beat, but you need to watch the quality of the head. I don't consider the XP-E to be an 'old' emitter, it gives a nice coloured beam and is well suited to the optic used in the E11, giving a surprising amount of light - for 105 lumens, it actually seems as bright as my Nitecore EZAA R5 in use. It throws well for a single AA too. And no glass lens to break!

Bear in mind the Sunwayman is almost 3 times the price of the Fenix (in the UK) so you would expect it to be much better. But 3 times better?

If you are in the UK, you can save money on almost any light by getting it from Hong Kong. It is more hassle, takes a lot longer and can be a pain if you need to return it for any reason, but I now buy all mine from there and have had no problems. The Sunwayman V10a XP-G costs £68.95 from a UK dealer, it is £47 from HK Equipment (I have used this dealer and have no complaints).
 
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egrep

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

V series can't be beat. V10A, V20A, V10R. All use the same head and driver. They are available in XPG or XML. Get the V10R and a (sold out, must find WTB) 14500 extender and you've got excellent versatility. I wonder if there is enough interest for a run of aluminum 14500 1 & 2x extenders?
 

bon1

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Bear in mind the Sunwayman is almost 3 times the price of the Fenix (in the UK) so you would expect it to be much better. But 3 times better?

I guess the V10A would be those 3 times better if someone could comfirm us that it is current controlled instead of PWM.

I'll be considering all your advice for a couple days before choosing a flashlight.

I think the four models I listed have been on the market for a long while now, so I hope people that have had them for some time can tell us their experiences with them. :)
 

reppans

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

..... but I really need to be able to use my flashlight with AA Alkalines in case of emergencies, etc.
  • This will be my primary flahslight, so it must be reliable and efficient with the use of batteries.
  • Enough modes (lumen output) to make the flashlight usable in all situations,.....

Emergency use typically means long runtimes to me.

While the infinitely variable magnetic rings are a very cool feature, they really suck up the juice at low lumen levels. The V10A with 40hrs runtime at 1 lumen is pretty pathetic, I'd much rather go for the M10A with 100hrs at 4 lumens.

But if your definition of emergency runtime is like mine, I'd consider a light with moonlight mode (0.2 lumens) for around 400 hours from a single AA Alk. :)

Moonlight also happens to be one of my favorite non-emergency modes as it preserves my night vision and doesn't disturb others. In an emergency, it's also enough light with which I can do just about anything I need to, with perhaps just a bit more work aiming the hot spot.
 

bon1

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Emergency use typically means long runtimes to me.

While the infinitely variable magnetic rings are a very cool feature, they really suck up the juice at low lumen levels. The V10A with 40hrs runtime at 1 lumen is pretty pathetic, I'd much rather go for the M10A with 100hrs at 4 lumens.

But if your definition of emergency runtime is like mine, I'd consider a light with moonlight mode (0.2 lumens) for around 400 hours from a single AA Alk. :)

Moonlight also happens to be one of my favorite non-emergency modes as it preserves my night vision and doesn't disturb others. In an emergency, it's also enough light with which I can do just about anything I need to, with perhaps just a bit more work aiming the hot spot.

Thank you for your advice! :)

But what flashlights would you advice me to look for?

As for the Sunwayman M10A, doesn't it have a strobe mode?
 

reppans

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Well, from what I read, I'm not your typical flashlight user. I happen to highly favor ultra-efficient low-end lumen lights in 1xAA - i.e., light/small EDC carry lights that lasts a long, long time. I'm a bit of a camper and I prefer to let my eyes go into night vision mode... and then stay there. I'll probably spend 50/40/10% my time on "low/med/high" modes, which for the record, happens to be 0.2/4/20+ lumens for me :).

If you like a long running moonlight as much as I do, followed-up by other closely spaced low low modes, in a 1xAA, then your choices become quite narrow - it's pretty much just the 4Sevens Quark and Zebralight SC or H 51 (I like "w" for warm tint). Sure, they've got 100-200 lumen highs, but I never use them, unless I feel like I'm being stalked, or riding a bicycle downhill at night.

Unfortunately 4Sevens hasn't buried their disco modes, although you could limit yourself buy programming only 2 mode with the Tactical version. The ZL's UI is very, very good and you won't mistakenly get the strobe, but I've heard people have problems with them and the warranty isn't nearly as good as 4Sevens.

(btw, I'm not crazy about the M10A... 4 lumens is too high of a low for me, although at 100 hrs, it sounds amazingly efficient at that level)
 
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bon1

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Chances are I'll be switching from lit to unlit places, so I'm quite sure I'll need more than those 0.2 lumens. Also, I'm going to need a well lit area whenever I'm working on an dark place since I may be using tools, etc.

What's the lumen ouput of an incan mini maglite when the batteries are about 50% discharged? This is just so I can have a reference.
 

cave dave

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

What's the lumen ouput of an incan mini maglite when the batteries are about 50% discharged? This is just so I can have a reference.

With a brand new bulb and new batteries the MiniMag is no more than 15 lumens. Based on old data I have the total runtime about 290 min till near dead on Eneloop Nimh. I would guess most Minmags with older bulbs are putting out around 9 lm or less for most of the run.
 

AaronG

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

PWM isn't necessarily bad. It really depends on the frequency. If the frequency is over 1000 you'll never see it, If it's under 100 it's VERY obvious.

I have the Sunwayman V10R Ti and it's a great lght. I would recommend the V10A or a Zebralight SC51w / SC80w. SC51Fw If your mostly working close.

+ for Sunwayman
Full variability is awesome! You can adjust the rotary with the light on or off so you know what it's set at before you turn it on.
It feels very sturdy. The low is nice and low and the transition between levels is very smooth.

- for Sunwayman
If your constantly in wet and dirty conditions such as sand, mud etc.. You can't clean and lube under the ring. Also the ring doesn't feel as smooth when it's cold.

The bottom end runtime isn't as efficient, but 40 hrs is still a stupid long time for one battery.

+ for zebralight
It's one of the most efficient lights on the market. The user interface is great (although Sunwayman is the best :D ) There are lots of options for tint (cool, warm "w" , high CRI "c") beampattern (regular or flood "F" ) and front or side facing head (SC for flashlight H for angle light)
Also the SC80 can take either AA or CR123 depending on your preference.

- for Zebralight
The 51 series has a low frequency PWM (60hz) on low/low (0.2 lumen) which I find annoying. All other modes are fine. There has also been complaints with the 51 series coming on in your pocket if you don't lock out the tail cap ( slight twist of the tailcap when stored away)

Both of these problems should be fixed with the SC80 because it has a slightly stiffer and more recessed button and all modes are current controlled.
 
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reppans

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

Chances are I'll be switching from lit to unlit places, so I'm quite sure I'll need more than those 0.2 lumens. Also, I'm going to need a well lit area whenever I'm working on an dark place since I may be using tools, etc.

Well, of course, but I just keyed on the comments re: "emergency, efficient, runtime." IMHO, it's always better to have and not need, than need and not have. It's not like you're give-up anything on the mid- to high-end to get moonlight, except perhaps having to cycle through an extra mode.
 

DavidMB

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I've heard that complaint many times here about the runtime on low of the SWM V10A. 40 hours is almost 2 full days. So, lets think this out. Most days have light so you would not be using the it for all 24 of a day. Now we are down to 12. People need to sleep so you probably won't be using it for all 12. So, lets say you'd be using light for half that, with it on constantly. Now we're talking about 6hrs, and 6 nights of light. I think this is pretty reasonable. Stuff has Really got to hit the fan if this isn't enough light in our modern world, and if it has gotten this bad, I think you may have other problems that your light only lasting 40 hours on low. /rant

Regarding the Fenix, Klarus and Xeno.. All of these lights are 2 mode lights except the Xeno. I'm not sure, but I don't think any of them even go down to 1 lumen, and as someone else here said, even 4 lumens is too bright for night adjusted eyes. He is right. 1 lumen is ideal, and can even seem bright for truly night adjusted eyes. Not that any of these lights are bad, they are quality lights. They just don't give you that may options when it comes to the amount of light you need.
 

reppans

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

....Now we're talking about 6hrs, and 6 nights of light. I think this is pretty reasonable. Stuff has Really got to hit the fan if this isn't enough light in our modern world, and if it has gotten this bad, I think you may have other problems that your light only lasting 40 hours on low. /rant

I see it quite a bit differently, perhaps because I highly doubt I'm going to know when my emergency starts so I can drop in a fresh battery for it.

On average, I'd assume I'll have 50% battery capacity remaining when (and if) I need it for a real emergency. Then, I also assume that the lowest light level may not be sufficient for everything that I need to see/do in an emergency, so there goes maybe another 25% ~ 40% of the capacity (remember, we're talking 1xAA here). So now I'm down to 25% ~ 10% of the remaining battery capacity for the lowest lumen level.... well, so I don't have sit in the pitch black twiddling my thumbs.

V10A, that's 4-10 hrs.
Quark or ZL, that's 40-100 hrs. (25-62hrs on Eneloops)

In addition, moonlight mode draws such low power (1ma), that you will literally be able to pull "dead" batteries from any high drain device (and possibly even the V10A :whistle:) for quite a few additional hours of runtime.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the V10A must be a fine light, and there's nothing insurmountable here... you can always: change a fresh batt. daily, carry spare batts, get a 18650, etc. etc. We all make our choices and I clearly stated that I'm not your typical user when asked for a suggestion... I just thought the OP considered efficiency/runtime/emergency use important, and that there might be better options for that. :shrug:
 

DavidMB

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

The Sunwayman M10A has much better runtimes at low levels. It's pretty much the same light, control ring, etc. but it gets 100hrs at 4 lumens. It does have a flashy mode which, I'm not a fan of, or need. Okay, scratch that; I just looked again, it only has three modes + strobe. It's still magnetic controlled, but somehow it manages lower draw.

It's a pretty big deal for me now that I've been exposed to an infinitely variable light, I just don't want to go back to only a few modes.

I'm pretty sure also that the V10A is not PWM, I've read a bit about it, and have done tests and cannot detect it.
 

bon1

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

I've got a loaner Maglite LED 3-Cell, rated at 131 lumens, boy! that's like night and day compared to my old incandescent mini maglite!

As per the specifications given by Cave Dave about the incan mini mag, I'm going to need somethign that is:
  • It's over 15 lumens.
  • Runtime over 4.8 hours at over 15 lumens.
  • It weights up to about 60.4 gram.
  • But this time uses a single AA battery (NiMH and Alkaline), as the minimag is way to long to keep in my pocket.
My first bet was the Fenix E11, but I've read way too many negative things about the poorly positioned LED as well as a low quality reflector and lens. Thus, sadly, I have to discard this flashlight. Does Fenix consider upgrading the quality of this flashlight?

I also like the JetBeam BA10 / Klarus P1A, but they only have two modes. The lower mode being rated at 12 lumens which I'm told is similar to the ouput of my current incan mini maglite. So, sadly, I have to discard this torch.

Then, there's the Xeno E03 V2. It's modes are (officially) 140 lumens for 1 hour / 40 lumens for 4 hours / 10 lumens for 20 hours. While this flashlight is moderately priced, I have read several posts on this forum complaining about the switch and flickering (solved after a thorough cleaning? Is that easy to do?). So this could potentially be my first LED flashlight--that depends on your advice! ;)

Concerning the Sunwayman V10A, I've just read this: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?263408-Control-ring-maintenance So I'm totally discarding this torch as my first LED flashlight.

Eventually, AaronG pointed out the new Zebralight SC80 (alternatively: Zebralight SC80w Neutral White. Which one is better? I like the "color" of the Maglite LED 3 Cell for the 2 minutes I had it). I like this flashlight but I have several doubts about it that I hope you guys can clear out for me:
  • Does the SC80 have the same involuntary switch-on issues as the SC51?
  • Is the switch easy to reach if you happen to have big hands?
  • The overall length for this torch is 81.6mm, is this long enough to provide a solid grip? That's very important to me when I need to use the flashlight for a long period of time. Initially, I was willing to accept anything between 90mm and 110mm.
  • Does the clip interfere with the gripping, or is it annoying when you have your flashlight in your pocket?
  • I assume this flashlight can tolerate mild falls of less than 1 meter high and sand or mud should not affect the normal operation of this torch. Am I right?
Somewhere on the Internet I found this quote about the SC80:
The second sub-level of the High can be configured after 6 double clicks. Double click (starting with the 7th) to cycle and select different brightness levels or strobes. Short click to turn off the light when finishing configurations. The selections for the second sub-level of the High are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.
Therefore, should I assume that I can totally get rid of the strobing mode of the SC80? I was thinking I could program it to be 189/77/10 instead of 189/77/strobe.

Wow!, that was a long post! Thank you for reading it all! :)
 

cave dave

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Re: Buying my 1st LED flashlight: V10A vs E11 vs P1A vs E03

The Xeno is a great place to start and it comes with a spare switch. I haven't had any problems with my switches but have taken it apart and its pretty easy to do.

I think you misunderstand how the Zebralight UI works. Except for the sublevel high you don't really "program" a zebralight. You can definitely hide the strobe. The strobe is hidden by default. All the rest of the modes are easy to get to, either by holding the switch down to cycle through or double clicking to get to the sub level.
 
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