Will the laser replace LED?

yellow

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thats funny, all those marketing brabble from BMW,
I NEVER yet saw any of their cars with a Xenon (= HID) light I would like, they all look soooo blue to me.
:rolleyes:
If they really succeed in getting their output colors "whiter", then probably ...


(but when reading the article more intense, I get the feeling, they WANT that blue light - they should go to Alfa Romeo and check the HID there - there is nothing I regret in the Giulietta, just chosen instead of the "model 1" early this year)



PS: when that technology gets to our lights, then finally all those "laser danger" stickers make sense ...
;)
 
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AnAppleSnail

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A blue-laser diode, is 1000 times as bright as an LED but uses just two-thirds the energy

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/bmw-laser-headlights-slice-through-the-dark

That's a poor summary of the efficiency. I may as well say that my steak is a billion times bigger than yours, because I can only smell a few molecules of yours but eat billions of molecules of mine.

RTFA wrote:
"It's true that LEDs are more efficient at turning electricity into light, though laser efficiency is rapidly catching up. But for overall system efficiency, it's no contest: LEDs are nowhere near as good at getting the light to where you want it to go."

[snip]
"A pair of the old halogen headlights drew about 120 watts from a car's battery; a couple of today's best LED headlights draw roughly 40 W. Laser light's usage is projected to drop below 30 W."

Edit: It's sad to see BMW positioning on the 6000K-CCT-is-king bandwagon, just because their technology puts them there. They should see the excellent European and US traffic safety studies on the interaction between CCT and glare, and CCT and better visibility.
 
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RetroTechie

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A blue-laser diode, is 1000 times as bright as an LED but uses just two-thirds the energy
Brightness alone says nothing about energy efficiency, so above statement should be read as marketing blurb. The devil is in the details:

The lasers will be safely contained, with no chance of bouncing their fierce rays off unfortunate retinas, even in the event of a collision. That's because the BMW lamps turn the intense blue beam into a tightly concentrated but nonlaser—and therefore eye-friendly—cone of white light.

The production version will have up to four Class 4 blue-laser diodes. Collimating lenses will direct their beams onto a phosphorus plate that will convert the laser beams to white light, which will bounce off secondary optics and reflect onto the road. To show me how it works, here in the night simulator lab, Erdl dips a phosphorus wafer into a blue laser beam. The wafer blocks some laser photons and lets others stream through. Among the blocked photons, some stimulate—or "pump"—the phosphorus atoms to emit yellow light. The mix of blue light streaming through and yellow emitted from within produces brilliant white light. It's the basic technique used, at lower intensities, in most white-light-emitting LEDs.
Translated: the light source itself emits the light through a very small surface area, which is nice but (in itself) useless for lighting purposes. So it's combined with phospors to produce white light, making it not much different from white power LEDs already on the market.

So everything depends on practical implementation, and real world product specs. As compared to a white power LED: its output isn't too hard to focus into a tight beam, as long as reflector is significantly bigger than the LED's light-emitting area. And some spill is usually not unwanted; there's few practical uses for 'light-sword-in-the-sky' type light sources.
:touche:
 

RTR882

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Very nice technology. Similar technique as we use to get white light out of a LED, i.e., blue led with a phosphor coating. I guess this means our flashlights will be obsolete soon, but that happens every year anyway.
 

dc38

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Very nice technology. Similar technique as we use to get white light out of a LED, i.e., blue led with a phosphor coating. I guess this means our flashlights will be obsolete soon, but that happens every year anyway.

Doubt it...the typical led is still cheaper than a decent laser diode...that's not including the phosphor cost. Not to mention, we have 1000 lumens out of a properly driven single die LED, and that kind of relatively inexpensive output won't be phased out soon. We still use incans, for goodness sake...
 
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Disciple

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A layman's forecast:

I don't expect that lasers will replace LEDs for common flashlights, as LEDs have high efficiency, low cost, and safety. The article acknowledges that the laser diodes are not as efficient, but says that the combined optical system is more efficient; this may be true in some applications or beam shapes, but I don't think it can beat a high quality reflector for total light output.

For dedicated throwers however I expect that the laser-stimulated phosphor will be vastly superior because the surface brightness should be much higher than any LED, even with a Wavien collar. I expect that the K40vn and even Deft-X will seem quaint in a few years as Maxabeam intensity levels become possible from similar sized lights. Phosphor life could be a problem however.
 

Cataract

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Interesting read, even though I haven't finished it all. They do mention the whole thing would be contained enough to not risk blinding anyone even in the event of an accident. I have seen some pictures that make me doubt they can foresee all possible scenarios, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Very promising technology, especially if it can be implemented in flashlights for a reasonable cost. I do have to mention I really wonder how BMW has come to have seemingly legal HID bulbs in mos of their cars in north America, as those are illegal in all of Canada and most states... Then again, they are much less bothering than series and non-series HID's from any other makers. I'm still against them as not all cars have the same headlight brightness and can cause some temporary loss of sight in the distance and also kill eye sensitivity for vision on the parts of the road that are not in the spotlight, possibly preventing a driver from seeing that deer about to climb on the road. I am not sure this is a good idea for cars, especially if it is not standard for everyone at the same time!
 

SubLGT

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some excerpts from an interesting, short interview with the co-founder of SoraaLaser:

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...es-will-be-key-to-the-future-of-lighting.html

..."In recent years, a more advanced type of visible laser diode technology has been developed, largely at UC Santa Barbara, based on a material known as semipolar GaN. The use of semipolar GaN results in the elimination of internal electrostatic fields, and maximum overlap between electrons and holes....SoraaLaser have developed a white light module using a reflective approach in which the diode laser pumps a small phosphor chip, which emits up to 500 lm of white light from a 300-μm spot...Laser-based white light sources have very high luminance values (1000 cd/mm2) relative to LEDs, so hundreds of lumens can be emitted within a small beam angle (1–2°), allowing for a high degree of optical control using very small optical elements...Specialty lighting and automotive lighting are now adopting this exciting technology, and will drive a new additional wave of volumes in the coming three years"...
 
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iamlucky13

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4 years since this thread was started and the technology still doesn't seem to be making many waves.

The intensity they're talking about is incredible - 500 lumens from a chip of phosphor less than 1/100th the area of an XP emitter (300 micrometers across vs. 3.5mm).

Since the phosphor conversion is not perfectly efficient, I'd expect the phosphor must get hot. I wonder what work they've done to look at longevity of the phosphor itself.

If they really can produce that much light from such a tiny spot, and package the hole unit including the laser diode in a 7mm square as shown in the diagram in the LEDs Magazine link, this could potentially enable smaller thrower flashlights. That's in addition to the benefit the car manufacturers seem to be pursuing of being able to better control the beam profile of a light source so much closer to being a point source.

I just hope BMW and Audi don't really start equipping cars with 6000K headlights.
 

fyrstormer

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4 years since this thread was started and the technology still doesn't seem to be making many waves.
I re-iterate my original response:
The laser will never replace normal lighting sources, because nobody wants to be legally responsible for blinding people if they malfunction.

I just hope BMW and Audi don't really start equipping cars with 6000K headlights.
HID headlights have been going in the opposite direction, towards warmer light, specifically because bluer light is less effective for seeing clearly on a per-lumen basis. (that being said, there is a lower limit to the brightness of a warm light before it becomes useless for seeing, which is why I still prefer cooler LEDs for handheld-light use.)
 

SubLGT

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Is Acebeam the first to use laser pumped phosphor in a flashlight?

http://www.acebeam.com/white-laser-w10

The W10 is a game changing flashlight that utilises a White laser emitter produce a 250 lumen output [250,000cd] with a beam throw of up to 1000m. A 5100mAh battery combined with the highly efficient LEP light source provides and a runtime of 3.3 hours at maximum output and maximum throw.
 

SubLGT

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SLD Laser, a world leader in commercialization of visible laser light sources, today announced it has demonstrated a laser based white light source with 1000 lumens CW output from its miniature 7mm surface mount device (SMD) package.

Built on its award winning LaserLight SMD platform, this lumen output is more than two times higher than SLD Laser's current generation of commercialized light sources and modules. The light emitting surface is 350 microns in diameter, corresponding to a luminance level of approximately 1530 million candela per square meter (Mcd/m2), an industry first for any solid state light source, and about 10 times higher than the highest luminance LEDs.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sacrame...releases/California/2018/05/03/20180503005551
 

desert.snake

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This may be good for some applications, but what if you need to shine near? Maybe add to this flashlight a diffuse filter or an extra lens like a LedLenser, then it will be more universal. In general, can these lasers work in several modes? I mean, I see only 1 maximum mode. Sometimes only need a few lumens.
 
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