Why are there no good lanterns out there?

StorminMatt

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I have a Coleman fluorescent lantern from several years ago. It runs on 8 D cells in series. And it puts out maybe 300-400 lumens. This is enough for many situations. But it is certainly a far cry from the output of a good gasoline or propane lantern. It's also a far cry from the output of my Malkoff Mag, which uses an XM-L2 is powered by only three D cells, and runs for around four hours on those cells. Imagine what could be done today with a lantern that ran on the same 8 D cells, but had even just a single XM-L2. Or perhaps better yet, three XM-L2s or a single MT-G2! It would be as bright as a gas lantern, or brighter. But it could still run for HOURS on Tenergy Centura or Premium D cells. But such a lantern doesn't exist, and probably never will. Instead, we are stuck with lanterns running outdated LEDs which give off a dim 150-250 lumens of bluish light. What gives? Why can't anyone make a good LED camping lantern with decent output using modern emitters?
 

Baroutologos

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Hello stormingmat,

The same question has bother me a couple of years ago and was the starting point at making my own lanterns that now evolved in retrofitting old obsolete relics (lanterns) that once served proudly to illuminate people's every day life. :)


***
In light output terms, YES, there is a wide gap between commercial led or fluorescent lanterns and what mantle lanterns (propane, gas, oil) can.

While working with electricity, things are clean and nice in general its major draw back is power supply or better storage.
(This applies not only to lanterns but in general to cars, electronic device etc)

When articles are powered by mains, no problem. When it comes to portable electricity without a gas/diesel generator there is a big one.

In lantern's terms, due to those inherent restrictions most manufacturers (if not all) have been focused at making tiny, small and larger products able to provide a basic light to have the job be done.

Another major consideration that poses a solid drawback to your wish is the cost. The cost comparison per lumen's output of a finished system of led or fl lighting vs mantle lighting favours considerably the later. Let alone compactness (per running hours) and life of service (since no electronics or corrosion affected parts).

***

In practical lantern's terms, i had a similar wish by member Ledaddict (in vintage lantern's terms) and we concluded to those
http://www.rechargeable-led-lantern.com/bryans-lanterns/
Dimmable. Ouput at full around 900lm. Power supply comes from main (PSU) or a car battery for a max current draw of 1.4 amps for a camping instance.

The sky is the limit, as long as you consider output vs running time issues.


At bottom line, anything can be made at a cost, but inherently poses some drawback as well as advantages in contrast to best alternatives. (e.g. electric lanterns with a solar cell can be "refilled")

Cheers,
Barou
 
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jtr1962

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The good news here is LED COBs which put out a lot lumens very efficiently are becoming much less expensive, so we might soon see better commercial products. For example, Cree CXA 1304s putting out well in excess of 400 lumens at only 3.6 watts can be had for under $4. You can still get ~100 lm/W and 800-900 lumens running them at higher currents. With 4 D cells and an efficient driver you can probably get 5 hours with 800-900 lumens output (or proportionately more at lower currents). LEDs will only get more efficient while batteries will increase in energy density, so I have little doubt electric lanterns rivaling the output/runtime of mantle lanterns will exist soon.
 

LEDAdd1ct

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Aside from the stuff you can buy custom through the CPF modders (like Panos, see above) Favourlight does make, and sell, neutral/warm white LED lanterns.

Please see the guide I made here.
 

Hoop

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The reason, I think, is because the big name manufacturers of lanterns--and their distribution partners, are typically in a race to the bottom in terms of pricing, and no "boutique" manufacturers have jumped into the lantern game. Surprising is that the better selling lanterns on Amazon are actually $30, $8, and $45, being the Rayovac Sportsman, Coleman MicroPacker, and Coleman Quad. The Rayovac has a better sales rank than the MicroPacker and costs four times as much. The Coleman Quad is not sales ranked but has 400 reviews which means it gets plenty of sales. I would have expected the MicroPacker to get the most sales simply based on it's price. This shows that there is sufficient demand for a better quality unit, at least at these low price points.

The question is, what would someone be willing to pay for an all metal, 1,000 lumen, dimmable, high CRI LED lantern with lifepo4 batteries and a long runtime? $200? $300? Also, what constitutes a good lantern in your mind?

Well, I guess since propane sets the bar, 1,000 lumens with 8 hours runtime on high would be a good goal when designing an led lantern.
 
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Lampbeam

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My propane mantle lantern is the brightest lantern I own. My eight D battery compact fluorescent doesn't even come close. I've been considering buying a Black Diamond Titan but it only has 250 lumens so why bother? I'm sure somebody will make a 4 x 18650 lantern soon that will rival a propane lantern.
 

Hoop

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I'm sure somebody will make a 4 x 18650 lantern soon that will rival a propane lantern.

That configuration on high would run for 3.5 hours or so at 1,000 lumens. To hit an 8 hour runtime like propane you would need more batteries.

Amongst the circle packings of four, seven, and eight circles within a circle, seven has the highest packing density:
4: .6863:1
7: .7777:1
8: .7325:1

Eight 18650's lends itself to more voltage configurations than seven, however, and has a slightly better packing density than four. A configuration of eight 18650's would allow an LED lantern to rival a propane lantern, and the lantern body could be around 2.75 to 3" in outside diameter. Nine batteries would best be done in a square configuration, which would be about the same apparent size as the circular eight arrangement and could be configured in either 3S3P or 9s.

wrns.jpg
 
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Baroutologos

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Good ideas are being gathered over here about a electric lantern rivaling in equal terms (output and running time) a propane one. Perhaps some day, i'll manage to make one, per vintage specs of course.
We see till then :)

Cheers
 

dss_777

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:thumbsup:
The reason, I think, is because the big name manufacturers of lanterns--and their distribution partners, are typically in a race to the bottom in terms of pricing, and no "boutique" manufacturers have jumped into the lantern game. Surprising is that the better selling lanterns on Amazon are actually $30, $8, and $45, being the Rayovac Sportsman, Coleman MicroPacker, and Coleman Quad. The Rayovac has a better sales rank than the MicroPacker and costs four times as much. The Coleman Quad is not sales ranked but has 400 reviews which means it gets plenty of sales. I would have expected the MicroPacker to get the most sales simply based on it's price. This shows that there is sufficient demand for a better quality unit, at least at these low price points.

The question is, what would someone be willing to pay for an all metal, 1,000 lumen, dimmable, high CRI LED lantern with lifepo4 batteries and a long runtime? $200? $300? Also, what constitutes a good lantern in your mind?

Well, I guess since propane sets the bar, 1,000 lumens with 8 hours runtime on high would be a good goal when designing an led lantern.

Unfortunately, I think your assessment of lantern manufacturing is pretty accurate. Favourlite makes some nice lanterns, though.

Thanks to LEDAddict1 for pointing them out. :thumbsup:

However, I have not found a 1# tank of propane lasts anywhere near 8 hours, at least on high. Mfg. specs on Colemans latest 2-mantle lantern are in the 8 hour range, but I question that.

The real advantage of LED lanterns is that they ARE small, light, safe for kids and non-mechanical friends and relatives, and they VERY indoor-friendly. Lanterns are just not very SEXY, especially compared to flashlights, even though they fill the safe, portable area light role very well, IMO. Like flashlights, it must be same thinking that makes us believe "plastic = cheap" and "metal & glass = expensive".
 

RI Chevy

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My propane mantle lantern is the brightest lantern I own. My eight D battery compact fluorescent doesn't even come close. I've been considering buying a Black Diamond Titan but it only has 250 lumens so why bother? I'm sure somebody will make a 4 x 18650 lantern soon that will rival a propane lantern.

That configuration on high would run for 3.5 hours or so at 1,000 lumens. To hit an 8 hour runtime like propane you would need more batteries.

Amongst the circle packings of four, seven, and eight circles within a circle, seven has the highest packing density:
4: .6863:1
7: .7777:1
8: .7325:1

Eight 18650's lends itself to more voltage configurations than seven, however, and has a slightly better packing density than four. A configuration of eight 18650's would allow an LED lantern to rival a propane lantern, and the lantern body could be around 2.75 to 3" in outside diameter. Nine batteries would best be done in a square configuration, which would be about the same apparent size as the circular eight arrangement and could be configured in either 3S3P or 9s.

Maybe a lantern that runs on 4-26650 4500 mAh Cells?
 

StarHalo

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But I don't need a multi-hundred lumen output lantern, I would only use something like that to like up a camping area in lieu of a bonfire. The Favourlight with the warm emitter has all the bases covered as far as inexpensive indoor power outage lighting goes, ~100 firelight lumens on common batteries for ~$30, that'll do..
 

Monocrom

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There's a good chance that the companies that make lanterns figured there just isn't enough demand out there to push the envelope.
 

flyingtoaster

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First off, hello everyone. I found this thread on a Google search and this seems like an active and interesting forum. I am a frequent hiker, backpacker, and car camper, so lighting is important to me.

OP, there is a good lantern out there with a modern emitter. Hoop, is this similar to what you mentioned? 5hrs, 1k lumens, and is compatible with both a proprietary rechargeable battery and 4 D batteries.

http://www.coleman.com/product/1000-lumen-cpx-6-lantern/2000013865?contextCategory=1080

With that said,

-Since the 1930s, the majority of liquid fuel lanterns have been 300-500 cp (approx. 700 to 1100 lumens)

-Today, we use lanterns for camping and in case of emergency

- When camping, the idea is to have a warm, soft light that illuminates the immediate area without blinding your neighbors. 500 cp lanterns (like the modern Coleman Powerhouse and the Petromax and its clones) are borderline too bright.

-For comparison purposes, let's say 4 D batteries cost $6 and one gallon of Coleman fuel costs $13 a gallon.

-The CPX6 lantern lasts 5 hours at 1000 lumens (presumably on 4D) and a 500cp lantern will burn for around 7 hours on a quart of fuel.
-> CPX6 ($1.20/hr) vs lantern ($0.46/hr)
Note: Mantles last about 20 hours (new Chinese Coleman) to 200 hours (Fillipino Peerless brand)

-Both types of lantern have a cost saving option
-On CPX6, you can use the rechargeable battery. If it will run for 5 hours on 4D, maybe 4 hours on the rechargeable
-On the liquid fuel lantern, you can use regular unleaded at $3.60/gal, but you wil have to clean the generator every 10 to 20 fills (takes 5 min) and if you store the lantern with pump gas, it will gum up in a few years.

-If you need to run your CPX6 continuously, you will either need to have a steady supply of D batteries or you will need 2 rechargeable batteries, with one constantly charging. For the liquid fuel lantern, as long as you have gasoline, there is virtually no downtime.

-In an emergency situation, are you more likely to find batteries on store shelves, or will you be able to scavenge small amounts of gasoline?

-Even if electric lanterns match liquid fuel in light output and runtime, you will need an auxilary heater and bug zapper.

-Would you rather have something made in China of plastic, or made in USA of steel, brass, and glass (ok, I am not fair and unbiased).

Whether you prefer one or the other, if you consider yourself a lighting enthusiast, I believe it is important to have a classic pressure lantern in your collection in case SHTF.

-Ryan

OH YEAH,

From an environmental perspective, is it less damaging to throw away countless D batteries, one or two rechargeable batteries, or burn many gallons of white gas?
 
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Phaserburn

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Heck, that Coleman looks great! Ordered!

They say they are using a special phosphor called intematix to control color temp. I thought that was just sales make believe, but intematix is a real company and the product looks interesting.
 
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flyingtoaster

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Lol you're welcome. Interesting is different from functional. I have a VTEC engine but I admit a V8 is more functional. Now hunt for a classic pressure lantern.



Heck, that Coleman looks great! Ordered!

They say they are using a special phosphor called intermatix to control color temp. I thought that was just sales make believe, but intermatix is a real company and the product looks interesting.
 

LEDAdd1ct

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@flyingtoaster, thank you for the info on the new LED lantern! I hadn't heard of it. I will refrain from purchasing it until Phaserburn posts his impressions. :D

Now, the new Coleman claims 1,000 lumens from five LEDs.

For about the same cost in parts, you could build something that has been on my wish list for some time. I contacted the maker of these a few years ago, but haven't heard back, so gave up.

These should be moddable for either AC or DC use, are cheap, versatile, extremely durable, made in whatever country you live in (if country of origin concerns you), and can be as bright as you like:

Link

Here is some data from another thread on carbon fueled lanterns:

Here is what Coleman has from their newsroom. The lumens they list are less than has been reported on this site. Note there is a misprint on the northstar saying it is a 2 mantle and it is a single. This document is dated 1/16/12. The link is below.

NorthStar® Dual Fuel™ InstaStart™ Lantern:
Mantle: Two mantle design uses No. 95 Insta-Clip® mantles (included)
Lumens: Up to 1138 lumens on high
Run Time: Up to 7 hours on high on one tank of fuel
Features: Battery InstaStart™ Ignition for fast, matchless lighting (includes one AAA battery)
Fuel Capacity: 2.0 pints
Model No: 3000000944

Premium Powerhouse® Dual Fuel™ Lantern (295 Series):
Powerhouse® Technology: Burns 25% brighter than 285 series lanterns
Mantle: Two mantle design uses No. 21 Insta-Clip® mantles (included)
Lumens: Up to 1107 lumens on high
Run Time: Up to 7 hours on high on one tank of fuel
Features: Lights easily with matches. Filter funnel included.
Fuel Capacity: 2.0 pints
Model No: 3000000946

Premium Dual Fuel™ Lantern (285 Series):
Mantle: Two mantle design uses No. 21 Insta-Clip® mantles (included)
Lumens: Up to 861 lumens on high
Run Time: Up to 7 hours on high on one tank of fuel
Features: Lights easily with matches. Filter funnel included.
Fuel Capacity: 1.3 pints
Model No: 3000000923

http://news.coleman.com/pr/col/dual-fuel-lanterns-221913.aspx
 
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