CREE 4Flow Teardown and Review

electronupdate

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Appears to be a competitive response to the Philips Slim Style. Same attempt to use copper clad on the circuit board as a heat sink. Same poor warranty (when compared to their previous, more premium bulbs). Flicker present, buzzes with a dimmer due to the light-weight construction, not the best light pattern.

It will be interesting to see how much of the overall market bulbs like this will get.

 

idleprocess

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From a TCO perspective, these new cheap LED bulbs don't have to live very long to beat incandescent/halogen unlike their $20 and $40 counterparts from a few years ago where failing at much less than the 25k hour mark ruined the savings. Break-even is about 2000 hours with $0.10 / kWH electricity, so the ~6.6k warranty period life nets some savings - albeit nothing like hitting the 25k rated life. Of course, CFL is still extremely competitive in this arena provided the applications are otherwise similar but pretty much nobody loves what they get from the $2 CFL.

After almost 20 years of trying, lighting manufacturers seem to have accepted that the mass market values low initial purchase price over all else. Get the market to pay more for quality and maybe we'll also see bulbs that routinely exceed 25k hours with no flicker and great CRI, but the future seems to be in "good enough" lifespan and overall quality. The high-quality arena will be apparently be left to niche products and niche players.
 

brickbat

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Agree. I don't get the emphasis placed on the warranty term. Warranty is not necessarily related to the design lifetime, and further, after a few years the crop of LED lamps will be better, and the old ones probably ought to be replaced at that time simply because they'll be obsolete....
 

MichaelW

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I was wondering if things could get any weirder in the LED market, but Feit has a new 100 watt version that has an internal fan. Seems odd, but so does the large step backwards in efficiency. 22watt for 1600 lumens@2700K.

This Cree design would look very cool if someone applied GITD to the boards.
 

Steve K

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72 lumens per watt doesn't sound that bad for a complete light assembly, especially at 2700K.
I wonder what the lifetime of the fan is??
 

AnAppleSnail

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72 lumens per watt doesn't sound that bad for a complete light assembly, especially at 2700K.
I wonder what the lifetime of the fan is??

It's too easy to forget the whole system.

An LED rated at 140 Lm/watt @ 85C will give about 120 Lm/Watt @ 105C.
This has the heatsink at about 80C, and the exposed parts at about 50C.
Now give the ~30% output drop for correct diffusion and shaping of the light: 84 Lm/watt
Now give the ~95% electric conversion, 79.8 Lm/watt.

And I'm just sitting at a computer making up realistic numbers, and I got within spitting distance of the true measured value.

Fans can have great lifetimes when they are in a stationary application. Server fans and hard drives spin constantly for thousands of hours. My question then, is which price point of fan have they chosen? Even a $20 RC Helicopter has a main motor that will run for a few thousand hours.
 

SemiMan

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Likely less than 140 at 2700k, 20% diffusion, and 85-88 electrical but only say 8-10% max loss due to temp rise.
 

martinaee

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I was wondering if things could get any weirder in the LED market, but Feit has a new 100 watt version that has an internal fan. Seems odd, but so does the large step backwards in efficiency. 22watt for 1600 lumens@2700K.

This Cree design would look very cool if someone applied GITD to the boards.

Is that really bad though? That's basically two 800 lumen 11 watt led bulbs. I'd be worried about the fan failing eventually though. I'm running two 11 watt bulbs using a splitter in some living room lights so basically the same thing. They probably spread the heat better though since all the heat isn't in one bulb.
 

martinaee

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Oh also this bulb should make you all again realize that no matter what... always hate marketing:

Didn't Cree basically poop on Philips and their paddle bulb with their last generation of led bulb's commercial?



Of course the general consumer is only looking at the shape and doesn't realize that for all intents and purposes Cree is more or less eating their words here. OOOOOhhhh... good job Cree. You did what Philips did, but made it a pear shape! GOOD JOB! :shakehead I actually prefer the Philips bulb over these... I still stand that these will surely get clogged up with dust by design. Air is supposed to flow up and into them assuming they are standing vertically with the contacts down.

I wonder what does better in terms of dissipating heat--- the Philips design where essentially the plastic (and some board/copper embedded) become the heat sink or these 4Flow Cree bulbs?
 
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idleprocess

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Per Home Despot's website, these things have been in stock at local stores for several days. Finally spotted these at the local Home Despot in a small floor display not within easy view of the main lighting isle - not sure if initial shipment quantities were low, Cree didn't cough a premium for up for a front endcap display, HD isn't happy about them for some reason, or what.

Bought 3 40W equivalent - 2x 2700K and 1x 5000K to perform an experiment in color mixing. In the heavily-diffused triple fixture they work like, well, a light bulb.
 

jthj

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I just picked a few up and so far I like them. I had to ask someone to help me find the daylight 11 watt version as they only had the lower watt ones on the shelf. I pointed out that the website showed 41 in stock on my phone and he found a case of them un opened above the light bulb aisle. I also have tried the slim style. I prefer Phillips slightly less yellow take on 2700 but in all other regards I'd say the 4flow is a better bulb. It stayed quiet on my Lutron CL dimmer too.
 

bobski

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I picked up a pair of these today (1x 2700K and 1x5000k) from Home Depot. I dislike both of those color temps (it's like the options are candle light or mercury-vapor) so my plan was to swap half of the emitters between the two bulbs using my hot air station. When I got home and watched Electron's review, I realized Cree had already done all the hard work for me. Once out of the bulb shell, the two PCB-planes slide apart with a little wiggling. The electrical connections between the two are those same spring contacts used in the bulb base that Electron detailed in his video... No soldering or hot air required. Even the shell halves are lightly glued.

So:
1. pry the base off the shell
2. spread the two shell halves far enough to remove the guts
3. wiggle the daughter PCB up out of its slot
4. repeat 1-3 with the other bulb and swap the daughter PCBs
5. reassemble

I'm loving the result - it's that nice neutral 3500-4000k range that nobody sells. Reds, yellows, greens, blues... They're all nicely balanced again.
 

brickbat

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Ha - I had thought of that too, but didn't try because I couldn't figure out a good way to separate the bulb halves. How'd you do that? They're not totally glues together?
 

markr6

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I picked up a pair of these today (1x 2700K and 1x5000k) from Home Depot. I dislike both of those color temps (it's like the options are candle light or mercury-vapor)

Exactly. I just still don't understand why almost noone makes a nice neutral bulb. I've tried the limited ones out there and they were no good or too expensive. Why don't they just add a third option at 3800K and cover a majority of consumer preferences?

Good work on pairing up the two bulbs! I'll have to try that.
 

SemiMan

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They would make it at 4000K as that looks "white" to most people under artificial illumination and it by far the predominant (4000/4100) CCT in commercial lighting and hence where the price points and performance are going to be best on the LED front.

Semiman
 

Anders Hoveland

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2700K and 5000k, I dislike both of those color temps (it's like the options are candle light or mercury-vapor)
2700K and 5000K are a little extreme. Probably would have been better if they had made 2900K and 4500K versions.
 

CoveAxe

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Exactly. I just still don't understand why almost noone makes a nice neutral bulb. I've tried the limited ones out there and they were no good or too expensive. Why don't they just add a third option at 3800K and cover a majority of consumer preferences?

By any chance have you tried this one? I'm also looking for a 4000k bulb and this one says it fits the bill.
 
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