LED H11 bulb for projectors

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Frtigern

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I have a car with separate low and high beam headlight bulbs. Low beams are in halogen projectors and high beams are in reflector housing. I figure that since most LED bulbs are made for combined high/low beam reflector headlamps I don't have any option except to do HID retrofit. However, I do see that 360 degree beam angle H11's are used as fog lights but they lack any heatsink. I found a couple styles of single beam LED H11 bulbs that have 3 or 4 LEDs. Can someone tell me how projector headlamps are different? I know that projectors utilize a lens and a cutoff. As far as single beam LED bulbs and HID bulbs which are used in HID projectors what do I need to look for in a LED bulb to match the output and light spread of an HID bulb? It seems the housing of the projector is catching the light and throwing it but is relying entirely of the cutoff to differentiate where light is being thrown down the road. Dual beam halogen and LED bulbs however work on a different principle utilizing the reflector to throw light where you want it to go. So what am I looking for if I am to try and buy an H11 bulb to put in a Halogen bulb?
 

Alaric Darconville

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You didn't read many threads here before posting, apparently.

HID "retrofits" are unsafe and illegal. LED "bulbs" for headlamps are unsafe and illegal, whether in a projector or reflector assembly.

Perhaps, knowing exactly what make, model, and year vehicle you have, we can recommend a safe, effective, and legal upgrade, rather than a waste of your money on bulb-shaped toys.
 

Frtigern

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I have read several threads related but couldn't find anything about LED bulbs in single beam halogen reflectors. It seems most bulbs are made for dual beam reflector housings. I understand that HID retrofits and LED replacement bulbs may be unsafe if they aren't the right bulbs and aren't adjusted properly. I've seen both good and bad HID retrofits and LEDs. I installed good LEDs in my other vehicle and it works great. I know that there are so many cheap LEDs out there that aren't well designed and can be considered "toys" and that's why I was hoping for more information on the question so I could test it in my vehicle. If it doesn't work, fine but if it does I want to document my experience on what will work safely. As far as illegal, I've seen stock headlights that should be illegal, but maybe it's not the bulbs that are the problem but that they need to be professionally adjusted. I would like to know what makes it illegal. Is it just a broad statement statement saying that any bulb other than what comes stock is illegal or does it specify exactly which kinds are allowed?

I have a 2010 Mazda 3
 

Alaric Darconville

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I have read several threads related but couldn't find anything about LED bulbs in single beam halogen reflectors.
Single beam, dual beam, it doesn't matter.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?387680-LED-headlight-bulbs-illegal
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?321214-Replacing-H7-Bulbs-with-LEDs
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?377987-LED-H4-and-H7-bulbs-legality
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?393807-H11-projector-bulbs-35w-HID-vs-LED
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Yes-another-LED-Headlight-conversion-question


I understand that HID retrofits and LED replacement bulbs may be unsafe if they aren't the right bulbs and aren't adjusted properly.
Are unsafe. There is no "right bulb" and no "adjusting properly".

I've seen both good and bad HID retrofits and LEDs.
You've seen all bad of both. The type of mounting precision, proper sealing *and* venting required, and a multitude of other aspects of "retrofitting" an HID projector into a vehicle it was not designed for means the chance of someone getting all of that correct is asymptotic to zero if not actually zero.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?380558-What-s-wrong-with-projector-retrofits


I installed good LEDs in my other vehicle and it works great.
They may appear to work great, but they don't actually work great. Your opinion of their efficacy is subjective, and our brains are easily fooled.


I know that there are so many cheap LEDs out there that aren't well designed and can be considered "toys" and that's why I was hoping for more information on the question so I could test it in my vehicle. If it doesn't work, fine but if it does I want to document my experience on what will work safely.
Then purchase a lot of testing equipment and the apposite SAE documents so you can perform objective measurements. Or send it all off to Calcoast ITL, along with a handsome amount of money so they can do the objective testing. Throwing these toys in your car, shining them on the wall and driving around a few blocks is not testing, it's playing.

As far as illegal, I've seen stock headlights that should be illegal, but maybe it's not the bulbs that are the problem but that they need to be professionally adjusted.
Many vehicles, sometimes even from the factory, could stand to have the headlamps aimed properly. However, the lamp assemblies themselves are legal and *can* be adjusted properly, and there are many options for safely replacing the factory bulbs with better-performing bulbs from Philips, Osram, Narva, Vosla, or GE (depending on the bulbs used).

Thus endeth that portion of this thread dealing with some of the whys and wherefores of the problem with HID "retrofits" and LED "bulbs" in headlamps.

Moving on:

I have a 2010 Mazda 3
Now we've got something to work with!


That Mazda 3 might be a candidate for new headlamps at this time, depending where you live, whether you park in a garage and have covered parking at work, and whether the headlamps have been damaged by abrasion from road grit/grime/salt and whether cleaning chemicals have damaged them. Sadly, the plastic lenses on modern cars degrade sooner than they really ought to. Since they may be a candidate for new headlamps, and since it appears that the 2010 Mazda 3 had a factory HID option, you could just get the headlamps replaced with new OEM HID headlamps at a competent dealership and have that snazzy HID upgrade you've always wanted.


If you choose to stay the halogen route, and also don't feel like the headlamps need to be replaced (be honest about their condition when you look at them. Even slight blemishes in the lens translate to a large loss of output and beam focus) then there are still some options. If you've never replaced those bulbs since obtaining the car, chances are they are of the "long life" variety. These bulbs are "functional" but not optimal when new, and as they age their lumen maintenance and the beam focus degrade. Beam focus isn't a strong point of a long life bulb in the first place, and the life on them is so long that they may appear to work (they light up!) you're getting far less light, and less-focused a beam than ever before. A standard bulb will burn out before they get so wretched; a performance bulb will shuffl off its mortal (filament) coil even earlier-- they're useful right up until the moment they burn out.

You may be a candidate for using the H9 instead of the H11 in your low beams (being a projector type headlamp it may have better glare control). For the high beams, replacing the 9005/HB3 with a 9011/HIR1 is a no-brainer. (Upgrading the low beams is trickier because low beams are where we're most concerned with glare for other drivers-- high beams aren't used around other traffic.) Both bulb swaps require trimming the base of the respective bulbs to fit either the socket or the wiring harness.

Speaking of wiring harnesses-- you might have voltage issues to address. Test your voltage drop in accordance with this site. Good bulbs, with the right voltage, will make all the difference.
 

LeoTheLion89

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The problem (or so i have seen and read) with LED Bulbs in projector housings is that the LED will not provide the "notch" of light at the top of projectors to light up signs at night. This isn't a issue with reflector housings however, the issue in Reflector housings is glare.
 
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-Virgil-

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The problem (or so i have seen and read) with LED Bulbs in projector housings is that the LED will not provide the "notch" of light at the top of projectors to light up signs at night. This isn't a issue with reflector housings however, the issue in Reflector housings is glare.

No, the problem isn't that LED bulbs don't light up signs. The problem is LED bulbs don't have a light source of the size, shape, position, orientation, and output characteristics that a halogen lamp is designed for (any halogen lamp...projector, reflector, whatever). The old and oft-repeated comparison applies: it's like trying to see with somebody else's eyeglasses.
 

calflash

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The problem is LED bulbs don't have a light source of the size, shape, position, orientation, and output characteristics that a halogen lamp is designed for (any halogen lamp...projector, reflector, whatever).

Out of curiosity and a lack of knowledge on my part: What are the differences between halogen projectors, HID projectors, and LED projectors? Is it as "simple" as the focal length of the lens used with each light source? Or are there other features behind the lens or perhaps surrounding the "bulb" that affect the image being projected?
 

LeoTheLion89

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No, the problem isn't that LED bulbs don't light up signs. The problem is LED bulbs don't have a light source of the size, shape, position, orientation, and output characteristics that a halogen lamp is designed for (any halogen lamp...projector, reflector, whatever). The old and oft-repeated comparison applies: it's like trying to see with somebody else's eyeglasses.
That is true.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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Out of curiosity and a lack of knowledge on my part: What are the differences between halogen projectors, HID projectors, and LED projectors? Is it as "simple" as the focal length of the lens used with each light source? Or are there other features behind the lens or perhaps surrounding the "bulb" that affect the image being projected?
You've been here quite a long time to not have seen a link to this hundreds of times.
 

Alaric Darconville

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(more bulk wrap about) Switchback LEDs

What do your illegal switchback LEDs have to do with anything?

Let this be your final warning: Stop talking about your unsafe, ineffective, and illegal switchback LEDs and how you think they perform any useful function. The only thing about them we want to hear is that you've finally grown up and removed them and put back the proper bulbs in your vehicle.
 
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calflash

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Thanks - I did glean some points I hadn't remembered. I guess my questions are more about the housing and lens design. Are all projector lenses of the same design - i.e. aspherical or spherical, biconvex or plano-convex? Or do they each have very specific designs to minimize abberation? In a projector headlight, are there light source specific features that block or collimate the light that isn't part of the projected image? My questions stem from a desire to be able to explain more thoroughly to my customers and friends some of the more technical reasons why these "swaps" don't work effectively.
 

Alaric Darconville

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My questions stem from a desire to be able to explain more thoroughly to my customers and friends some of the more technical reasons why these "swaps" don't work effectively.
Sometimes, trying to fight that battle by getting into the esoterica just seems to give the arguers more an "in" to refuting the argument. (On the other hand, the "because I say so" method isn't very good, either.) I can hear it now "but the biconvex corrects for subphotonic abberation by inverting the sinusoidal hyperplenerations" or whatever their little "I got drunk and read HIDPlanet" brains can come up with.

The very basic answer is: "Halogen = single hotspot at center; arc-discharge capsule = two hotspots equidistant from center." Everything else is a distraction from this very simple truth.
 

calflash

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Sometimes, trying to fight that battle by getting into the esoterica just seems to give the arguers more an "in" to refuting the argument.

The very basic answer is: "Halogen = single hotspot at center; arc-discharge capsule = two hotspots equidistant from center." Everything else is a distraction from this very simple truth.

Good point. So maybe the real problem is that my brain doesn't stop there. I've probably gone far enough off topic with this question so I guess I should try to search elsewhere for some of the science beyond what has been discussed. That said, if anyone has a suggestion of where to start reading, please provide a link or suggestion. (PM would be fine too) Thanks.
 

Hilldweller

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You may be a candidate for using the H9 instead of the H11 in your low beams (being a projector type headlamp it may have better glare control). For the high beams, replacing the 9005/HB3 with a 9011/HIR1 is a no-brainer. (Upgrading the low beams is trickier because low beams are where we're most concerned with glare for other drivers-- high beams aren't used around other traffic.) Both bulb swaps require trimming the base of the respective bulbs to fit either the socket or the wiring harness.

Speaking of wiring harnesses-- you might have voltage issues to address. Test your voltage drop in accordance with this site. Good bulbs, with the right voltage, will make all the difference.
I had a couple of Mazda 3s and think this is your best route. Get a good H9 and, if your lens isn't frosted by time/elements, you should be pretty happy. The HIR in the highbeam will be equally enjoyable.
The Mazda projectors are pretty darn good.
 
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