Another unsecured 18650 explosion - in a handbag this time

keithy

Enlightened
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
212
Saw this yesterday. A woman who had an 18650 for her vaper explode in her handbag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPC3rf-x9g

It looks like the battery was loose and not in a case and likely shorted.

Just wondering - do vape stores warn that loose spare batteries can be hazardous?
 

Thom2022

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
224
Yes they do in my experience in the UK. regulated vaping devices are inherently quite safe but the people who use them are quite often absolute weapons grade morons who believe they know better who then run off and blame the device, battery, seller. Planetary alignment or anything bar themselves for the incident. It looks bad for vaping which is a shame.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
Looking at purposely exploded 18650s on YouTube. What I am seeing is flameout on short, and explosion on overcharge.

Her leather purse appears to have contained the fire well.

This woman obviously wants to sue. But likely she caused a short or over charged.

Now, the kid who lost teeth and hole in tongue...cheap cell,too much current overcharge. Maybe vape pens should all be redesigned at right angles to the mouth, if no other pen electronic safe guards introduced.
 

moozooh

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
496
She didn't seem fully sober in that vid. You know that kind of muddled facial expression when you can tell the brain is strained to process information in realtime, so even the simplest of phrases and gestures are slowed down and dragged out. :)

It depends on the definition of "fireproof" that you want to use. Technically, well-processed natural leather is nonflammable—that is, it doesn't catch fire. If exposed to continuous open fire, it will shrink, become charred, and smolder until it disintegrates. However, the same doesn't hold true for other fabrics that make up an article of leather clothing (e.g. inner liner, seams, etc. — they can catch fire).

Note that many (perhaps most) fabrics can be processed in a way that makes them nonflammable—by impregnating, orienting, and increasing the density ("weight") of fibers in particular ways. Even synthetic ones which are notorious for their flammability! Instead of catching fire and sticking to skin and other surfaces, they would shrink and evaporate, leaving only a small amount of non-sticky ash behind.

Materials typically called fireproof are also expected to contain fire (e. g. stop it from propagating further before disintegrating) to a certain degree, which leather doesn't help much with due to significant shrinking and subsequent tearing. That said, among the fabrics used for everyday clothing and other items, leather is by far the most protective.
 

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
She didn't seem fully sober in that vid. You know that kind of muddled facial expression when you can tell the brain is strained to process information in realtime, so even the simplest of phrases and gestures are slowed down and dragged out. :)


It depends on the definition of "fireproof" that you want to use. Technically, well-processed natural leather is nonflammable—that is, it doesn't catch fire. If exposed to continuous open fire, it will shrink, become charred, and smolder until it disintegrates. However, the same doesn't hold true for other fabrics that make up an article of leather clothing (e.g. inner liner, seams, etc. — they can catch fire).

Note that many (perhaps most) fabrics can be processed in a way that makes them nonflammable—by impregnating, orienting, and increasing the density ("weight") of fibers in particular ways. Even synthetic ones which are notorious for their flammability! Instead of catching fire and sticking to skin and other surfaces, they would shrink and evaporate, leaving only a small amount of non-sticky ash behind.

Materials typically called fireproof are also expected to contain fire (e. g. stop it from propagating further before disintegrating) to a certain degree, which leather doesn't help much with due to significant shrinking and subsequent tearing. That said, among the fabrics used for everyday clothing and other items, leather is by far the most protective.

You seem to have tested or read up.

Seeing this video, I grabbed a left leather garden glove. It looks untreated, not aesthetic as to impress the garden. Then. Butane and propane blow torch. The stuff barely chars in a half minute of the hottest flame. In fact. I was so impressed that i tried with my hand inside, where it took half a minute before I had to remove my finger.

Been fire testing. Leather is clear winner over Fiberglass,silicone or even aluminum flashing. Treated materials, I have tested are consumed,but don't sustain a flame. I may borate infuse some leather, cover with a thin borated silicone, then start the 2-5 minute blue blow torch tests.

Bonded leather isn't real. It is most likely to increase flammablity, is what all the dyes and leather conditioners will do.

One can be sure most leather apparel with be so *******ized as to be flammable.

There are eBay antique leather firefighters helmets for sale, which indicates it was the gold standard before space age gobbledygook marketing replaced it. My experience is that man made substitutes never match the original. White China brush holds 4x the latex paint than a synthetic. Lambskin rolls 4x paint than a synthetic. Wool is empirically way warmer once wet than synthetic. (Military surplus,was my only source for ℅100 wool. I freeze in anything else,with got frostbite in 2006 on toes with 3 socks an 70 below shoes on, in 20s.). Seal skin shoes are only safe shoes in the Arctic. 100℅ Cotton shirts reigne for breathable comfort. Not saying synthetic is bad. Usually over rated,and cheaper. Overrated because it is cheaper.

I don't see any good leather suppliers on eBay. I do fear this lady and her clones, willing to pay $1000 for a purse, and her biker husband, may drive the leather price high enough, that i will need to find other avenues for a cheap flame proof material.
 
Last edited:

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
On a chimney repair forum they were using fiberglass to fireproof gaps. Half the people said the torched the stuff and it melt, the other half said it doesn't. Clearly the melting point is around 600c and a flame is at least 1000. My empirical test explain the difference in opinion. Butane lighter could not melt more than the individual threads. Propane blow torch can melt inches thick of the cloth in a second. Still,is is the most fireproof fabric I was able to find so far.

One of had nomex only slightly ahead of leather for flame spread index. One engineer who works on cat scanners told me nomex is only sold in bulk to large companies. This needs verification beyond my first six Google hits.
 
Last edited:

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
Nomex is meta-aramid felt. Then, there is something called "pan" felt with very high temperature rating.

Then, what exactly is a welders banket's specs? Doubtful it is only fiberglass.
 

moozooh

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
496
There are eBay antique leather firefighters helmets for sale, which indicates it was the gold standard before space age gobbledygook marketing replaced it.
Um, no, if you really believe that people who regularly have to risk their lives by going in burning buildings and whatnot decided to change their fabric of choice just because of marketing, a reality check might be in order. :v

Here's a brief layman-level explanation as to why it goes beyond simple flame spread index. A modern firefighter suit isn't something you can replicate in leather. Even if Nomex and other high-tech fabrics didn't exist, alternatives to leather would still be actively sought out because of the seams (made chiefly out of cotton threads, which are remarkably bad at surviving repetitive exposure to extreme heat) and the fact that leather is as good at keeping heat outside as it is at trapping it inside. If you've ever tried wearing a pair of leather pants in hot summer... well, the sensation is certainly hard to forget.

100℅ Cotton shirts reigne for breathable comfort.
Actually, this hasn't been the case since about forever, but a good non-cotton shirt is neither cheap nor easy to find, which is why people tend to forget they exist at all. Out of natural fibers, linen and hemp are much, much superior to cotton in every respect except wrinkling; certain types of wool and silk are also more breathable, stretch and stain less over time, and are far less odor-retentive compared to even the lightest cotton. I have clothes made out of all of these fabrics, and cotton is by far the worst at wicking moisture, body heat, and odor away. (That being said, I also avoid cheap synthetics like plague.) Denim jeans are also 100% cotton, by the way; certainly not something I'd mention with "breathable" in the same sentence. In any case, give 100% hemp a go if you can procure it—I guarantee you'll love it. :)

You might also want to check what professional athletes choose when money is not an issue. Modern synthetic and mixed-fiber fabrics are extremely versatile, and can be tailored to mimic virtually any characteristics you want if your equipment is good enough. E.g. polypropylene is used for hypoallergenic babies' diapers, dishwasher-safe tableware, ultra-absorbent microfiber cloths, and waterproof tents, and is good at all of those applications. Fascinating stuff.

As for non-clothing fireproofing, I suggest taking a look at aerogel.
 
Last edited:

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
Um, no, if you really believe that people who regularly have to risk their lives by going in burning buildings and whatnot decided to change their fabric of choice just because of marketing, a reality check might be in order. :v

Here's a brief layman-level explanation as to why it goes beyond simple flame spread index. A modern firefighter suit isn't something you can replicate in leather. Even if Nomex and other high-tech fabrics didn't exist, alternatives to leather would still be actively sought out because of the seams (made chiefly out of cotton threads, which are remarkably bad at surviving repetitive exposure to extreme heat) and the fact that leather is as good at keeping heat outside as it is at trapping it inside. If you've ever tried wearing a pair of leather pants in hot summer... well, the sensation is certainly hard to forget.


Actually, this hasn't been the case since about forever, but a good non-cotton shirt is neither cheap nor easy to find, which is why people tend to forget they exist at all. Out of natural fibers, linen and hemp are much, much superior to cotton in every respect except wrinkling; certain types of wool and silk are also more breathable, stretch and stain less over time, and are far less odor-retentive compared to even the lightest cotton. I have clothes made out of all of these fabrics, and cotton is by far the worst at wicking moisture, body heat, and odor away. (That being said, I also avoid cheap synthetics like plague.) Denim jeans are also 100% cotton, by the way; certainly not something I'd mention with "breathable" in the same sentence. In any case, give 100% hemp a go if you can procure it—I guarantee you'll love it. :)

You might also want to check what professional athletes choose when money is not an issue. Modern synthetic and mixed-fiber fabrics are extremely versatile, and can be tailored to mimic virtually any characteristics you want if your equipment is good enough. E.g. polypropylene is used for hypoallergenic babies' diapers, dishwasher-safe tableware, ultra-absorbent microfiber cloths, and waterproof tents, and is good at all of those applications. Fascinating stuff.

As for non-clothing fireproofing, I suggest taking a look at aerogel.

Aerogel, just reading link. This is probably the key to silica and carbon welders blankets, which perform way better than filber glass (alas, my local welder supply, has acrylic covered fiberglass, which I wouldn't trust.), according to youtube testing.


I have no argument. Too little time today to follow up. I admit reading your post while pumping gas. And a quick re-read today.

Researching welding blankets (application for me is for a metal halide tarp, 18650 charge bag alternatives (I go through 12 18650s on many days a year, so carry up to 20 protected panasonic voltage tested cells, daily.), and just to better educate myself on fire spread and extinguishing. One youtube welder demonstrated that fiberglass welder blankets are not suitable. The carbonized blanket appeared to work, while the silica cloth blanket worked very well. Well, silica cloth appears to be prohibitive if you have the need for more than one. Then, there is ceramic blankets, which look, at a glance, to be more pricey and effective.

http://www.firesleeveandtape.com/hi...ter-resistant-fabric-cloth-blanket-group.html

Quick notes, of zero importance, (no time for articulation attempt) that hit me were: I have never tried silk or hemp. Hemp, got to try, if legal! Silk Hold heat in is definition of insulation, Silica blanket, seams are weakness with all fire,staple seams, neoprene socks failed me, I prefer wool. All alternatives mentioned, are natural or manual hobbling together natural materials. I have yet to see a blend that was truly superior to the real thing-not in wool blends (for warmth), not in blended paint brushes, etc. It is the marketing department and unqualified claims, that try to brainwash the retailer (and consumer) that such and such product is the best.

 
Last edited:

degarb

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
2,036
Location
Akron, Ohio
http://m.wikihow.com/Make-Cloth-Fireproof?amp=1

The above link, about 6 ways to fireproof cloth, led me to alum fireproofing and leather tanning , which led me to this page on various ways to tan leather, below :

http://gizmodo.com/how-leather-is-slowly-killing-the-people-and-places-tha-1572678618

You may think the above link led me to shave my head and hang out at airports whilst stumbling upon more links. Well, not yet, anyway.

My garden gloves that can take a propane torch punch, looks like a bluish leather, so maybe, chromium tanned? Probably, alum for the vaping purse in the video?
 
Last edited:
Top