First flashlight using the new 20700 cell?

brighterthanthesun

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
622
Location
Elk Mound, WI USA
I have been reading about the 20700 cell replacing the venerable 18650 for a while now. Now that the 20700 cell is out, who will be the first to offer a flashlight using this new battery?
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
Wait a few years as I figure that the new battery size will have to replace 18650s in more than just car battery usage. The 20700 is bigger and unless you need a little more power in a single cell vs even more power in 2x18650 batteries it isn't going to happen overnight. IMO unless you need uber runtime or light output the 18650 does fine for most people. I also have got used to the size of 18650 lights and a larger diameter and longer light size needed for a larger cell isn't a plus to me.
I do think for multiple emitter lights the 20700 may have an advantage in that instead of going to a lot of 18650s or bigger 22 or 32mm batteries you can use 1 or a few 20700s and make the light a little smaller.
 

staticx57

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,749
Location
NJ
Which companies are willing to develop lights for unprotected cells? Either that or jump into the fray before battery dimension standards have stabilized?

Zebralight for one. All of the lights I build are voltage aware so I rarely use protected.
 

ven

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
22,533
Location
Manchester UK
Cant see it anytime soon, no doubt it will be years before available to the general public(well so to speak). Even then, its not something that would take off straight away, too many have too much invested in the 18650 format. For a flashlight, the benefit over an 18650 is far from ground breaking anyway.................when you have 1000's together powering motors then yes, but 1 or 4 in a light..........not significant enough to me right now anyway. If i want a single cell light with more mah i simply get a 26650 fed one, the actual size is more comfortable to me over 18650. A 20mm cell wont be that much more significant in size...........1mm around the circumference. If 4000mah..................well i am happy with 3500mah and hardly going to dump all my cells/lights for 500mah(in todays figures as an example). Just my thoughts..............
 

Impossible lumens

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
939
I agree with ven. While 20700 cells may be today's news, in terms of practicality for flashlights it's a lot more like next weeks news. Everybody involved with the flashlight industry has so much invested with the 18650 and 26650 for the higher capacity cells already. There does not seem to be a whole lot of incentive to go with a slightly larger than 18650 cell for the minor benefit of, as ven said about 500 milliamps extra. I think the 20700 would have to be more saturated in the market before we see even a first 20700 light come out. I could be wrong on this though as flashlight manufacturers will do whatever they want. Speaking for myself and likely many others as well, I'll say that I like buying 18650 or 26650 lights because I know that I already have good cells on hand to put into them.
 

chillinn

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
2,527
Location
Mobjack Bay
The difference in volume between the 18650 (16.54cc) and 20700 (21.99cc) is easy to calculate, but please check my math (I get a difference of 5.45cc -- to put that in perspective, the volume of a 10440 is 3.46cc; Vol. of a 14500 is 7.7cc; Vol. of a 15270 is 4.77cc; Vol. of a 16340 is 6.84cc).

What is the difference in capacity?
 
Last edited:

vadimax

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
Vilnius, Lithuania
If I were a flashlight manufacturer I would ignore 20700 form factor entirely :) There is no point having 18650 and 26650 cells. Just to fill the gap?! Pffft :D
 

Impossible lumens

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
939
The difference in volume between the 18650 (16.54cc) and 20700 (21.99cc) is easy to calculate, but please check my math (I get a difference of 5.45cc).

What is the difference in capacity?
I'm really bad at math, but I don't think that the increase in volume closely correlates to increase in capacity when it comes to MAh. I believe there is a diminishing return but would like to find out more as well. Thing with the 20700 cell is that even if MAh do directly correlate to increased volume, the 20700 still isn't very much bigger than an 18650.
 

staticx57

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,749
Location
NJ
If I were a flashlight manufacturer I would ignore 20700 form factor entirely :) There is no point having 18650 and 26650 cells. Just to fill the gap?! Pffft :D

I would disagree with this and it really depends on where the industry is going. 18650 is, by volume, the best cell for both discharge current and capacity. Why? Major manufacturers, read not China, actively develop 18650. If they switch to 20700 then those cells will gain the technology and manufacturing advantage
 

vadimax

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,269
Location
Vilnius, Lithuania
I would disagree with this and it really depends on where the industry is going. 18650 is, by volume, the best cell for both discharge current and capacity. Why? Major manufacturers, read not China, actively develop 18650. If they switch to 20700 then those cells will gain the technology and manufacturing advantage

Everything is connected in this world. 18650 fits in well with a huge market of 1" gun mounts. 20700 will force internal battery tube diameter to 21 mm, external -- 24.5 mm. Only 1.75 mm left to a tube wall thickness including knurling? -- Nonsense. Noone will use a foil thin lights on their guns.
 

Lynx_Arc

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
11,212
Location
Tulsa,OK
I just realized another drawback in that lights that use either 123s or 18650s the 123s would need a sleeve and a spacer to use them properly with a tube designed to fit a 20700 battery. It would also need a spacer for 3AAA carriers too.
 
Last edited:

Chozzehnwahn

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
65
I believe tesla has dumped the 20700 format and is going with a 21700 aka 21-70. They claim 18650 format was an "accident" and not optimal at all. Currently Metabo is using 20700 in their battery packs, but no one else is using this format, so I doubt we will see them in flashlights.
 

texas cop

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
520
Location
Texas
I see 20700/21700 flashlights starting end of 2017 beginning 2018. I personally like the 26650 format as a step up from 18650, but that's dead. Highest capacity 26650 is about 5200 mah, twice that of the highest Chinese 18650 battery. Why because the only remaining makers of 26650 are the Chinese. Throw the very latest technology into the 20700/21700 and we're looking at early production potential 20 amp, 5000 mah batteries. Cr123A's adapter is a moot point as is 1"/25.4mm mounting rings. 30mm, 34mm and 35mm rings already exsist. I do see 18650 sleeves being made at least until 20700/21700 becomes common place. Samsung/BMW 21700. Panasonic/Tesla looks like 20700 is now the 21-70. Very likely we will see Milwaukee, Dewalt, Makita, Ridgid doing the same in 2017/2018. Metabo already is using the Panasonic 20700 in their LiHD battery series.
 

roger-roger

Enlightened
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
433
Location
the Former Territory of Hawaii
I see 20700/21700 flashlights starting end of 2017 beginning 2018. I personally like the 26650 format as a step up from 18650, but that's dead. Highest capacity 26650 is about 5200 mah, twice that of the highest Chinese 18650 battery. Why because the only remaining makers of 26650 are the Chinese. Throw the very latest technology into the 20700/21700 and we're looking at early production potential 20 amp, 5000 mah batteries. Cr123A's adapter is a moot point as is 1"/25.4mm mounting rings. 30mm, 34mm and 35mm rings already exsist. I do see 18650 sleeves being made at least until 20700/21700 becomes common place. Samsung/BMW 21700. Panasonic/Tesla looks like 20700 is now the 21-70. Very likely we will see Milwaukee, Dewalt, Makita, Ridgid doing the same in 2017/2018. Metabo already is using the Panasonic 20700 in their LiHD battery series.


Agree. Even with my short term observations, the flashlight market seems to be following the rest of the electronics industry, with the accelerated need to continue to ramp up new model after new model to stay competitive. The lights will come as soon as its economically feasible to eek out a profit increase.
 

texas cop

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
520
Location
Texas
I missed the original posted question. Who will produce the first 20700 flashlight. Who ever it is that announces. Every one else that is relevant in the market will produce at least one in that first few months. Our current chargers will work, we have the LED's to take advantage of the increased potential. The only missing component is the cell it self. Regardless of cell protection or not most lights have that built in. Car makers don't produce new models each year because the last one was out of date. They do it to stay relevant in the market. To a lesser extent on computers and power tools.

People will buy them. Few are going to say I've already got a 18650 I'll pass.
 

brighterthanthesun

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
622
Location
Elk Mound, WI USA
I missed the original posted question. Who will produce the first 20700 flashlight. Who ever it is that announces. Every one else that is relevant in the market will produce at least one in that first few months. Our current chargers will work, we have the LED's to take advantage of the increased potential. The only missing component is the cell it self. Regardless of cell protection or not most lights have that built in. Car makers don't produce new models each year because the last one was out of date. They do it to stay relevant in the market. To a lesser extent on computers and power tools.

People will buy them. Few are going to say I've already got a 18650 I'll pass.

The missing component is no longer missing, the NCR20700B is available at Illumn right now. Let the race begin.
 

SubLGT

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Messages
1,183
Location
Idaho, USA
I think Nitecore will be the first mainstream manufacturer to market with a 21700/20700 flashlight.
 
Top