What lighting best replicates sunlight?

beanbag

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One of my hobbies is fountain pens and inks.
I used to have fluorescent tubes as overhead lighting. It made my ink colors look a bit off as compared to how they looked outside under direct or indirect sunlight. (Probably because fluorescent lighting tends to emit at discrete frequencies) Then I upgraded to LED lighting with a high CRI . Bridgelux 3000K 97CRI emitters. It's better, but I think the colors still look a little funny. For example, I noticed that yellows and oranges have this eye-burning fluorescent highlighter glow to them. Maybe it is because LED lighting has a lot of energy at blue and yellow?



Any other forms of lighting suggestions? Maybe a different color temperature?
 

StarHalo

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For task-specific lighting like that, it's best to put the money into good lighting for just the work area; any of the basic 13 watt desk Ottlites will give you excellent color separation for ~$40. These are what most hobbyists who need good color rendering use.
 

chillinn

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I used to work in printing, digital prepress, for about 14 years. Color was tricky, trying to match client mockups to the monitor to film proofs to press. We used tungsten lamps under and above the tables in prepress. Next to the Sun, I prefer halogen lighting for brightness and for accurately determining color.
 
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FRITZHID

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I have hcri LEDs over most of my house but in my 2 work areas I have 100w MH overhead lamps. Cooler than halogen but great color rendition. Down falls being warm-up/cool-down and bulb maintenance.
 

ssanasisredna

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One of my hobbies is fountain pens and inks.
I used to have fluorescent tubes as overhead lighting. It made my ink colors look a bit off as compared to how they looked outside under direct or indirect sunlight. (Probably because fluorescent lighting tends to emit at discrete frequencies) Then I upgraded to LED lighting with a high CRI . Bridgelux 3000K 97CRI emitters. It's better, but I think the colors still look a little funny. For example, I noticed that yellows and oranges have this eye-burning fluorescent highlighter glow to them. Maybe it is because LED lighting has a lot of energy at blue and yellow?



Any other forms of lighting suggestions? Maybe a different color temperature?

If you want it to look like sunlight, then 3000K is not going to do the trick. You need something in the 5000-5500 range. Bridgelux makes 90CRI, 5000 and 5600K modules that are very good. If you can live with a lower CCT, Xicato does 98CRI models at 4000K which under normal illumination levels for indoors provides a very white feeling light.

There are specialized sunlight like lights, truly sunlight like, not just in name, but they tend to be rather expensive. There are some high CCT ceramic metal halide that are pretty good.
 

Enderman

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For working with colour don't go LED.
Buy an incandescent or halogen type light, something studio-grade.
Also, ~5500k-6500k is daylight temperature, but anything above 4500 is called daylight.
 

FRITZHID

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Halogen are good but I've found them to need bulb replacement more often as well as they just simply kick off way more heat than I want when I'm working, especially right over my head. I need 500 watts of halogen to be as effective as my single 100w 96cri 5000k MH.
I have halogen above my stove, since there's plenty of heat there already and color rendition is important when cooking but over my electronics work bench and over my art table, MH has proven most effective. YMMV.
 

markr6

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I like the Hyperikon bulbs - 4000K, 90+ CRI, fairly inexpensive. I've been running them pretty hard in my basement and garage with no issues. The 5000K may work for you, but it always seems too blue IMO, high CRI or not.
 

ssanasisredna

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There are no daylight temp halogen or incan that's naturally that way. It is done with filters. 3000k is okay for color matching but useless for gamut when looking at blues and the like.

OP wants it to look like daylight. 3000K is not going to do that.
 

MattPete

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Either Solux or Soraa.


Due to efficiency regulations, the only screw-in bulb Solux offers is a 3500k Par38 (I have one, and it looks excellent). Solux MR-16s go up to 4700k. Solux are halogen bulbs that use special filters to raise their color temperatures (which hurts their efficiency).

Soraa is a violet-based LED available in 2700, 3000, 4000, and 5000k in PAR and MR form factors. I have a 3000k PAR30, and the difference between it and standard LEDs is indescribable. Wood floors and cabinets look warmer under the 3000k Soraa compared to all the 2700k bulbs I've tested (and compared a 3000k 90+ cri Hyperikon BR40). Yet the white's look whiter compared to a 3500k Sylvania LED. If they made a BR30 and BR40 form factor, I'd replace all of my bulbs with Soraa's.
 

beanbag

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But if I get a higher color temperature LED, isn't there still an uneven spectral distribution with a peak at blue / violet?

As for metal halide, do you have any recommendations?
 

ssanasisredna

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But if I get a higher color temperature LED, isn't there still an uneven spectral distribution with a peak at blue / violet?

As for metal halide, do you have any recommendations?

Natural sunlight peaks about 450nm just like high CRI (90+), 5000-5600K LEDs.

Venture Light 90+ CRI products for MH are pretty good. They would be more like about 5000ish. You would probably be quite happy with them.



Xicato modules (4000k) have no peak to speak of.

Bridgelux Ultra Decor (97CRI) are only available at up to 3000K ... which is not going to give you a daylight balance. They do have a blue peak ... and that could fluoresce your inks ... but then so does sunlight (and Soraa likely to even more). Most of those inks will respond more to near UV than 445. Do they glow, or do they have a blue cast? Do you find they are that much different from a 3000K halogen (not standard Incan)?

If you go high CCT, even with some fluorescing if that is what is happening, it's likely to be balanced out (just like in sunlight).

You can buy a Bridgelux 90+ CRI emitter for $10 plus shipping and a driver for about the same. It's a cheap way to try, at least at lower lumens.
 

Enderman

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I bet you couldn't tell the difference without equipment.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LWXznJx_0
I bet a painter or designer that deals with colours every day certainly can.
Maybe you don't realize this, but professionals pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars or more for studio lighting equipment or calibrated monitors with extensive colourspaces and stuff like that.
This isn't a job for some cute high-CRI LED flashlight of yours.
 

LeanBurn

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Well you can relax Enderman.

No one is debating that incandescent is is king. The OP...(Beanbag) was simply asking in the lighting task capacity for fountain pens and inks. The more options the better. :thumbsup:

..and thanks...it is kinda cute now that I look at it. :D
 
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ssanasisredna

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Well you can relax Enderman.

No one is debating that incandescent is is king. The OP...(Beanbag) was simply asking in the lighting task capacity for fountain pens and inks. The more options the better. :thumbsup:

..and thanks...it is kinda cute now that I look at it. :D

I am. Incandescent is not "king", it is just one reference at a given CCT. That does not make it best. You are limited w.r.t. CCT though unless it is filtered in which case it's not behaving like an incan any more.

And no, painters and designers cannot tell the difference with random color samples between 95 and 100CRI, only samples with which they have a lot of experience and even then only under specific lighting conditions they have that experience with. A CCT shift will create far more variance than a 95 to 100 CRI change. The 95CRI is not "worse" than the 100, just different. CRI is not a quality measure, it is comparative measure to a reference standard. It is very easy to argue that the wide gamut Xicato modules at 3000K are "better" than a 100CRI incandescent bulb. They will allow you to discern and discriminate a wider range of colors than the 100CRI incan.

This is all very academic since the OP wants things to look like they do in sunlight ... NOT under an incandescent lamp.

The comment about studios (live studios) spending 100K+ on lighting is also not relevant. A $0.20 incandescent bulb under your argument would provide the same "quality" of lighting. Most of that cost is for diversity of lighting, intensity levels, evenness, and to eliminate shadows. They do not use auto white balancing (like your eyes) as they need to switch from camera to camera without it looking different. The key here is consistency. As monitors are RGB, they are sensitive to small changes in gain on either channel. The wide gamut is just a function of the limited color space of low cost solutions ... again, not really relevant to the argument. All that expense and calibration is actually testimony to us not being able to discern colors very well. Without calibration to remove the human element, the end colors would be all over the place.
 
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