Wow!!! I can't believe I had to login to get an answer to this :)

cheaperrooter

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This forum is full of so much information that very seldom do I have to login anymore to ask a question. If I can't find it here I can definitely google it and come up with an answer. So I am very shocked that an answer to this simple question is so hard to come by!

Everything and everybody tests it with a load and I can find the voltage of it under various loads all over the place.

But what I can't find is what the voltage should be for a CR123a brand-new, non-rechargeable. Just a good ole disposable lithium battery! My eyes are going blurry reading so much information and not being able to find that out. HELP!

But while I'm here I'm sure the experts can fill me in on something that's a mystery. OK so the reason I'm looking for an answer to that question is this.

I'm a prepper. Before I got into the 18650 rechargeable phase of life, I stockpiled hundreds of the 123a.

About half of those are the titanium innovations. The other half Duracell. I will admit, I don't know how long it's been but I know it hasn't been no 10 years. But it's been a while, maybe 7,8 or so...

Since I have rechargeables I haven't really touched any of those batteries. But I bought an IR patrol thermal imaging scope and it takes 2 (one but you could buy an extender) but not a 18650.

In a way, I'm kinda glad I found this out now, before anything bad happened. Because after inserting two batteries and have the display show two brand-new batteries, within 10 or 15 minutes, sometimes five minutes, they are all dead as a door nail. The Duracell's the same thing but nowhere near as bad. Actually the Duracell's are the same age and they are running about twice as long, maybe 30 minutes to 45 minutes, but still pooping out way premature and way before the expiration date stamped on them.

When I put my voltmeter (no I'm not advanced enough to know how to check it with a load) on the Titaniums are ALL reading 3.08-3.11 and the Duracells with exp dates of 2017-2019 around 3.25-3.30.

So that's why I'm trying to find out what it reads new, because one thing I'm fairly sure of, 3.10 is not dead neither is 3.25 dead. That voltage in my head should be somewhere around "medium" LOL. I know that's not the scientific term I'm sure...

I'd would guess that it has to hit the 2's before it's dead. But I could be wrong, hence why I am making this post.

The mysterious part to me is why they all drain so fast under load? I'm assuming that even not knowing what the voltage should read new, that even at 3.10 they should last a while. To fade that fast is shocking to me!

As it appears I'm getting ready to throw away and toss a couple hundred batteries. I just bought 100 surefire as back up for my 18650's.

Any input would be appreciated guys and gals :)

Oh yeah I forgot to add, want to know what the voltage should read new and also "still usable" because I want to go through every single battery and check it before I toss them because every once in a while I do come across a good pair!
 
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cheaperrooter

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That's a weird one. New CR123s are 3v.

Well that just scared the heck out of me! But 3.0 new, really? I thought I read on here and learned that the rating was the "average" which means like a 18650 is 3.6 but fully charged it's 4.1.

So I just assumed that 3.0 would be like 3.9 or something new?
 

ecallahan

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It would be worth getting a battery tester. I've had no luck correlating open cell voltage to remaining capacity on CR123.
 
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cheaperrooter

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Actually...I am a very stupid man!!! Spent most of my day trying to figure out what the voltages are on a new CR123a, when I remembered I ordered 100 new surefires, and all I had to do was test them!
SMH at myself in shame. I'm just glad I figured that out before anybody out there in candleland did :)

Ok, so new is 3.25. So in other words my Duracell's have not lost ANY voltage as they are the exact same as my NEW surefire. And the titanium's are only 3.10.

Hmmmmmmm. Wondering now if maybe I have something going on with my thermal imager and its draining batteries much faster than it should???
 

hiuintahs

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My unused but 2 year old Panasonic, Surefire, and Duracell CR123A's read 3.25x Volts unloaded. I think that is pretty close to where they were new. I don't use CR123A's and have never discharged one all the way. I use mostly rechargeable batteries and am a lot more familiar with the discharge curve of Eneloops. I have recently picked up a Quark QTL that I plan to just use a CR123A and its now down to 3.00v unloaded and still hits full brightness level.

cheaperrooter, I think your assessment is correct that it will be well into the 2's when depleted as measured unloaded.
 

nfetterly

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I've got some titanium innovations that came as part of a package. I was using them one at a time in my E1e with LED insert. But they only last a few minutes before I can no longer use high and then it starts blinking. Switched to some battery stations CR123s for now, will dispose of the other ones.
 

cheaperrooter

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Thanks guys, that does help a lot! Think I'll take out my 18650 and run 2 batteries in my Fenix PD32 and see if they drain off fast.

The specs for my IR Patrol M300W is 2 hours 1 battery and 5 hours 2 batteries. Knowing that manufacturers LOVE to run advertisements showing long run times, I will assume there's some plush there. So let's say 4 hours versus 5.

I'm still not even in the ballpark! Actually, I think I'm going to put two of the new surefires in and see how long they will last because that would definitely tell me if I have an issue.
 
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cheaperrooter

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OK, so the surefire's are rockin and rollin with no issues at all, they are paired to go the long-term :)

So than now I am thoroughly confused. I again made a natural assumption that as the years of storage increased, the voltage would go down accordingly. In short I never dreamed the voltage would remain the exact same, but the storage capacity would be diminished.

I thought they went hand-in-hand. The volts dropped as well as the capacity. You have to understand this opens up a major can of worms for me. As a prepper if I am checking my batteries to see if they are good, and I put a voltmeter on let's say a AA battery and get 1.5, then I'm going to assume the battery is good.

What I have learned is that is not true. The voltage may say good, but the battery runs out of being able to supply those
volts long enough to make it useful or classify it as a "good" battery.

This is where the science of batteries come in to play, and that's also where they race too far ahead for my intellect to catch up!!!

But I am perplexed now how I am supposed to check all of my batteries in storage as I always just use the voltmeter and when the voltage dropped down to a certain point, I tossed the battery. In this case and maybe it's only just for this specific battery, the volts are going to read good, in fact like new, but won't supply a sufficient enough amount of power to make them worth keeping.

They are acting as if you were putting AA batteries into a D cell flashlight. The volts are all the same, but there is no stored up power anymore. And again I always thought that was hand-in-hand.

Yes I learned something new but I'm more confused after learning it...
 

SilverFox

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Hello Cheaperrooter,

Lithium chemistry involves passivation. When the layer is thin it offers the benefit of extended shelf life. When the layer get thicker it can interfere with performance.

Here is an article that talks about this.

Tom
 

nbp

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Sorry but I'm not sure I follow you, thinking of what as pertaining to what? LOL

Lithium-ion batteries (rechargeable) like your 18650s are 4.2v hot off the charger. Lithium primaries (disposable) like CR123s are (roughly, as noted above) ~3v. Easy to confuse them.
 

Str8stroke

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Pretty much so the only CR123 cells I buy are Surefire, only from them or a authorized dealer. I may pick up some Streamlight, Olight or Foursevens cells. Really, I don't use enough to warrant any money savings considering the loss in performance I have experienced with "budget" cells. I will add, I have had good success with Panasonic cells. I got a bunch on trade once, they are still performing fairly well. They go in my car & back up back up lights. lol
 

ecallahan

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Another good reason for you to pick up a battery tester is to make sure you are putting 2 batteries in your light with similar capacity, or to check capacity periodically (unless you carry spares).

You can also try 'flash testing' with a DMM (applying a load on the amp setting for a short duration) to determine remaining capacity. I tried that for a while but didn't like the idea and was never that comfortable with the results.
 
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StorminMatt

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Do you think you were thinking of Li-ion cells which have a nominal voltage of 3.7v?
Easy enough mistake.
P

I think the guy is thinking about the voltage RANGE rather than nominal voltage. With Li-Ion, pretty much everyone here knows that voltage ranges from 4.2V fully charged to around 3.0V fully discharged, and that the nominal voltage is 3.7V. But when it comes to CR123's, all you hear about is their nominal voltage of 3.0V. You never really hear what the voltage range is between fully charged vs discharged. I think he brought up Li-Ion as an example to illustrate this point and ask what the range is for CR123.
 

Bdm82

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I think the guy is thinking about the voltage RANGE rather than nominal voltage. With Li-Ion, pretty much everyone here knows that voltage ranges from 4.2V fully charged to around 3.0V fully discharged, and that the nominal voltage is 3.7V. But when it comes to CR123's, all you hear about is their nominal voltage of 3.0V. You never really hear what the voltage range is between fully charged vs discharged. I think he brought up Li-Ion as an example to illustrate this point and ask what the range is for CR123.
I took it this way as well. And now it's been established that new voltage on 123As is 3.25.
Of course there's no minimum range and with nothing to protect for recharging, they can be run down to 0.0V or whatever the lower limit of the light is.
 

archimedes

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There are many technical details involved, but basically, open circuit voltage is a poor gauge of state of charge for lithium primaries.

If you want to start learning about battery chemistry and discharge curves, there are a ton of resources here on CPF, and elsewhere (like Battery University)

To get a very quick idea of what I am talking about, you can download battery specification sheets and take a look at the relevant discharge characteristics, such as (for example) here ...

http://data.energizer.com/products.aspx

These vary dramatically among various battery chemistries, current draw, age ( and quality ! ) of cells, etc, etc, even ambient temperature.

Bottom line, though, is that what you want is a load-based battery tester. ZTS makes a number of robust and relatively simple (if pricey) "MBT" models.



And by the way, based on your later posts, I think you have already learned more than you may realize ...[emoji106]
 
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