Philips Xtreme-Vision +100 questions

The Xtreme-Vision +100 is the best H4 bulb I've ever used in my 99 Jeep Cherokee XJ.

There is a blue package version that says H4 (which is what I used before).

There is a red package version that says 9003.

The packages are slightly different prices when sold at the same website. For example CandlePower.com.

Also, CandlePower.com says the blue package H4 is for motorcycles, and the red package 9003 is for cars. What the heck? I'm confused because I thought H4 and 9003 were the same bulb? Is there a difference?

P.S. - I have tried the blue package Xtreme-Vision-Plus +130 bulbs and don't like them. I'm strictly a PXV+100 fan. However, I'm now confused about whether there is two versions of PXV+100.

Charley3 said:

What the heck? I'm confused because I thought H4 and 9003 were the same bulb? Is there a difference?

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Yes, you're confused. So are they-- the H4 is interchangeable with the 9003/HB2. That "X is for motorcycles, Y is for cars" seems to have come out of thin air.

The nominal spec on HB2 is 1500/910 lumens at 12.8v in the US reg, and 1650/1000 at 13.2v and 1250/750 at 12.0v. If we use the standard 3.4 exponent for light change with voltage change:

Start with 1250/750 at 12.0:
At 12.8 the math gives us 1557/934 (that is 3.1%/2.6% off from nominal spec at 12.8v)
At 13.2 the math gives us 1728/1037 (that is 4.7%/3.7% off from nominal spec at 13.2v)

Start with 1650/1000 at 13.2:
At 12.8 the math gives us 1486/901 (that is 0.9%/1% off from nominal spec at 12.8v)
At 12.0 the math gives us 1193/723 (that is 4.5%/3.6% off from nominal spec at 12v)

Start with 1500/910 at 12.8:
At 12.0 the math gives us 1204/731 (that is 3.7%/2.5% off from the nominal spec at 12v)
At 13.2 the math gives us 1665/1010 (that is 0.9%/1% off from the nominal spec at 13.2v)

However, the US reg has a ±10% allowable tolerance, the UNECE reg has a ±15% allowable tolerance (that is, the H4 has a wider range of allowable output). The US-spec also has a tighter filament precision tolerance-- and it's filament precision that gets you better focus.

However, nowadays when you get the high-performance bulbs from Philips you're getting that precision in either designation. And, despite CandlePowerInc (no relation) saying differently on a product page, they themselves say that "In areas where there is no legal preference for 9003 bulbs over H4 bulbs in cars, any H4 or 9003 bulb can be used with confidence in any headlamp. (That .PDF on the similarities/differences is good enough for an overview without being too esoteric or arcane.)

Just like pretty much any other store, their goal is to make money. They're not immune from selling lighting-equipment shaped toys, so be careful what you "Add to Cart".

Charley3 said:

However, I'm now confused about whether there is two versions of PXV+100.

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The different packaging could have been due to the bulbs being intended for different markets.

I've used the red-packaged XV +100 9003 and the blue-packaged XV +130 H4, and IIRC the +100 9003's had DOT and SAE markings but no E certification mark on the bulbs, whereas the +130 H4's had the E mark but no DOT or SAE.

It might matter if you take your vehicle to get inspected and they're strict about the lighting.

This PDF explains things a bit:
http://candlepowerinc.com/pdfs/H4_9003.pdf

In a nut shell: The US specs for this bulb (where it's called an HB2 or 9003) are a little tighter/more precise than the Europe/rest of the world specs for this bulb (where it's called an H4). But if you're shopping top-line bulbs like these various premium items from Philips, Vosla, etc, the overwhelming likelihood is you could gather up 25 of the HB2 and 25 of the H4 and put them through formal testing and not find a pattern of the HB2s being closer to dead-on-spec than the H4s or vice-versa.

Legally, an H4 is not the same bulb as an HB2 (though any bulb that meets the HB2 spec also meets the H4 spec, and many bulbs are double-marked). But if you're anywhere on the continent of North America, I will find my biggest hat and eat it with mayonnaise and post the video on the internet if you ever get any police officer or vehicle inspector pulling the bulb out of your headlamp and saying "You can't be having these in your car, they're H4 instead of HB2/9003".

-Virgil- said:

But if you're anywhere on the continent of North America, I will find my biggest hat and eat it with mayonnaise and post the video on the internet if you ever get any police officer or vehicle inspector pulling the bulb out of your headlamp and saying "You can't be having these in your car, they're H4 instead of HB2/9003".

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Hope you haven't annoyed drmalenko lately
That'd be quite the conspiracy, though...

My Jeep Cherokee XJ has a high output alternator and headlight relay harness. What voltage would I likely have at the bulbs?

I assume it'd be around 13.8V or 14V, but that's just a guess.

How many lumens would that give me with Philips XtremeVision +100 bulbs?

What is this and how can I use it to calculate lumens at different voltages?

"standard 3.4 exponent for light change with voltage change"

Charley3 said:

My Jeep Cherokee XJ has a high output alternator and headlight relay harness. What voltage would I likely have at the bulbs? I assume it'd be around 13.8V or 14V, but that's just a guess.

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Not possible to guess accurately. You have to measure with a voltmeter, with both headlamps hooked up (measuring at an unplugged socket gives you a useless number).

How many lumens would that give me with Philips XtremeVision +100 bulbs?

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What is it you are hoping to learn? The number of lumens coming from the bulb doesn't really give you any useful info in terms of how well the headlamps work, because the headlamp will distribute some fraction of those lumens into the beam pattern. What matters most, the most direct linkage to how well you can see, is how the headlamps are aimed. Second after that is how the light is distributed within the beam pattern.

What is this and how can I use it to calculate lumens at different voltages? "standard 3.4 exponent for light change with voltage change"

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Suppose you have a bulb rated 1000 lumens at 13.2 volts, and you want to know how many lumens it will put out if you operate it at 14.0 volts. You do the math this way:

1000 x (14/13.2)^3.4

That is: divide 14 by 13.2, then raise that figure to the 3.4 power, then multiply that figure times 1000.

So (14/13.2) is 1.06

1.0606060606 raised to the 3.4 power is 1.22

1000 times 1.22 is 1220 lumens.

Or let's say you have a bulb rated 1000 lumens at 13.2 volts and you want to know how many lumens it puts out if you operate it at 12.5 volts. It works the same way:

1000 x (12.5/13.2)^3.4

12.5/13.2 = 0.947

0.947 raised to the 3.4 power = 0.83

1000 x 0.83 = 830 lumens.

Thanks for the info I appreciate it. I was a computer programmer. Mostly retired now. My college algebra skills are reasonably good. Calculus not so much since I haven't used it for decades.

I was a financial software programmer/creator/designer. My financial-business math/algebra skills are the subject matter of formulas that I know because I used them every day on the job.

I don't have knowledge of lighting formulas because it's been decades since I had college physics classes, and I didn't need/use physics on the job for financial software. I don't remember if they even taught voltage/lighting formulas in college physics. Maybe that's more of an engineering topic? I don't know.

My knowledge of lighting and physics is weak, but when you give me a relevant formula, I have the algebra skills to understand and use it. Thanks for he info. It's useful and interesting. I love learning new things, especially about lighting physics. I'm bored with financial subject matter now.

Charley3 said:

Thanks for the info I appreciate it. I was a computer programmer. Mostly retired now. My college algebra skills are reasonably good. Calculus not so much since I haven't used it for decades.

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The mathmatical concept is maybe mid-to-late high school (at least, how I remember the '80s). Probably now moved into college freshman level.

My financial-business math/algebra skills are the subject matter of formulas that I know because I used them every day on the job.

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TVM formulas are way more complex than this. (They're also kindof fascinating.)

I don't remember if they even taught voltage/lighting formulas in college physics. Maybe that's more of an engineering topic? I don't know.

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It's probably of more interest to someone running a movie projector than an engineer in general (unless optics is their field). Still, simple enough math.

My knowledge of lighting and physics is weak, but when you give me a relevant formula, I have the algebra skills to understand and use it. Thanks for he info. It's useful and interesting. I love learning new things, especially about lighting physics. I'm bored with financial subject matter now.

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You'll like also learning another thing about bulb voltage-- wattage changes to the power of 1.6 with changes in voltage. Color temperature not only decreases with filament age (a somewhat complex formula see more here (which is all nice and interesting but more useful for a photographer or projectionist)) but it also changes to the power of .42 with changes in voltage (if my recall on that is correct-- again, this is something a projectionist or photographer, or perhaps an archivist working with document imaging, would be concerned with).

And bulb lifespan changes to the -13 (negative 13) power with voltage change. So take a bulb rated 500 hours at 13.2 volts and run it at 14 volts:

500 x (14/13.2)^-13

Work the math the same as above, and you find that at 14v, that bulb can be expected to last 232 hours (and some minutes), that is less than half the rated life.

You guys are a fountain of knowledge. This is very interesting and fun stuff. Photography is a hobby of mine.

Thank you!

I've replaced most of my car lights with the Xtreme Vision lights as recommended by this forum and have bee happy with them. I use to use the Silvertstars but they had a sort lifespan.