Looking for a good quality tactical light

I'm looking for a tactical light that could also be mounted to a shotgun or rifle. I'd like it to have the following:
-around the $100 price range
-rear clicky
-tail stand if possible
-momentary on
-easy access to turbo and strobe
-multiple modes such as moonlight, low, med, turbo (any more than that would be too many modes I think. Beacon or SOS is fine as long as they are a side/hidden mode.)
-one or two x 18650 and the ability to take cr123 primaries
-potted electronics and dual springs for recoil
-durable
-for mode changing, no twisty. Either clicking through modes or a side switch might make sense.
-mode memory
-durable
-good customer service (I've had bad experiences with some Chinese manufacturers and I do not want to ever have to send it to China if there was issues)
-a good mix of throw and flood (probably at least 250 meters, but doesn't have to be a 500+ meter thrower)

What do you guys think? Thanks.

Generally speaking, you do not want a multi-mode light attached to a weapon - there is a good chance of recoil breaking the circuit just enough to switch settings.

If you rule out Chinese manufacturers, you're looking at Surefire, Elzetta, Malkoff, Streamlight, and I *think* Quark services their flashlights domestically, but I don't know.

Tail-standing rules out everyone but Malkoff. But he doesn't produce anything else meeting your specs: no mode memory or strobe.

A mix of throw and flood at 250 meters in a single 18650/2xCR123s isn't happening. Most of the lights that can reach that far are pretty bulky to be mounting on a rifle.

It sounds like you're trying to shove too many specs into one device, but maybe someone else has a better recommendation.

I agree that a light meeting the throw, strobe, tailcap, and service requirements doesn't exist.

I also agree that tailcap switched multi-mode is unwise.

TMedina said:

Generally speaking, you do not want a multi-mode light attached to a weapon - there is a good chance of recoil breaking the circuit just enough to switch settings.

If you rule out Chinese manufacturers, you're looking at Surefire, Elzetta, Malkoff, Streamlight, and I *think* Quark services their flashlights domestically, but I don't know.

Tail-standing rules out everyone but Malkoff. But he doesn't produce anything else meeting your specs: no mode memory or strobe.

A mix of throw and flood at 250 meters in a single 18650/2xCR123s isn't happening. Most of the lights that can reach that far are pretty bulky to be mounting on a rifle.

It sounds like you're trying to shove too many specs into one device, but maybe someone else has a better recommendation.

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I guess tailstanding isn't an absolute must, and regarding the throw and flood, I meant I want it to be able to throw 250 m, many lights can do that. I just don't have a lot of experience with a shotgun or rifle lights.

I've looked into Malkoff, and yes I'd love to have one, it would just be nice to have strobe. I've also looked into Pflex pro lights, they seem to have most the features I want, I'm just not sure if they are good for rifles etc. What do you guys think would be best for a rifle/shotgun light?

If I wanted to mount a weaponlight, I'd go with either a Surefire or a Malkoff. Depending on your mounting hardware, you might look at an Arisaka 600-series body with a Malkoff E2T head. Projected range on that is 137 meters, give or take. For home defense, I would take a Malkoff E2 scout head and slap it on an Arisaka body for a better balance of throw and spill in close quarters.

I suppose the better question would be: how do you intend to use rifle/shotgun light? Hunting? Home defense? Something else?

To give you an idea of the light necessary to reach 250 meters, look at the Malkoff Hound Dog - rated at 300+ meters. But it's not a small light and not something easily mounted on a weapon, although with the right hardware combination, I imagine it's possible.

Also, are you talking about 250 meter ANSI illumination (a pretty much useless .25 lux on target) or actually illuminating something to a degree that will make it visible at 250 meters (1-2 lux or more).

Eliminating the shrouded tailcap does little to improve your odds of finding a light to meet your requirements, especially if you'd like to be able to see a target at over 200 meters. You may need to go the modded light route if this is the case, so if it breaks you'd send it to the modder for repair instead of China.

I actually had a Hound Dog with MD3 mounted on a 7.62 x 51 NATO AR for a while and it worked out fine, but it was hardly a lightweight build, so some additional weight wasn't a big deal.

I just noticed cyberescudo's review of the Eagtac T25L-R, it has a head twist to select but I like the way this company uses that. Not a 'back and forth' type set-up that you get with ordinary twisties. Maybe have a look at that one? Definitely seems throwy for its size.

Regarding the throw discussed in earlier replies, I'm confused. I see plenty of 1 x 18650 lights that claim to throw much further than the 250m + I was looking for. The Eagletac mentioned above claims 385m, the Klarus XT12gt I think claims 600m, the Nitecore mh27 claims over 450m, and there are many more.

So for a rifle or shotgun light is it better to get a light designed just for that vs trying to get a tactical light that I can use handheld and mount when I need to?

Should I include Chinese made lights and are there any that you would recommend that could even come close to the reliability of Surefire, Malkoff, etc?

Would I have to go a bit higher than the $100 price range I'm looking for?

Following the ANSI standard, I have no doubt that the lights you mention deliver photons at the distances they claim. Having enough of them make it there to be useful is highly unlikely.

So.....do you want to actually be able to see something well enough at 250 yards to shoot it, or do you just want to follow ANSI ratings?

The number of USA made dedicated throw-style lights designed to be weapon mountable and not intended for handheld use is quite small. The least expensive one I can think of is the Streamlight TLR-1 HPL. It seems that it does include strobe, which is activated by rapidly engaging momentary operation two or more times. It seems to me that strobe could be activated accidentally.

It's highly unlikely that what you're looking for, even if you go by ANSI throw, will be available from a USA manufacturer for less than $100. I only have personal experience with one light of China origins, a FourSevens Quark Tactical, and I would not mount it onto a weapon......definitely not on my 12 gauge.

TA_ls1 said:

Regarding the throw discussed in earlier replies, I'm confused. I see plenty of 1 x 18650 lights that claim to throw much further than the 250m + I was looking for. The Eagletac mentioned above claims 385m, the Klarus XT12gt I think claims 600m, the Nitecore mh27 claims over 450m, and there are many more.

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A lot of that is marketing. Along with the reports of lumen outputs - what a manufacturer claims is technically possible with the LED, but may not be an accurate accounting of what it puts out. I cited Malkoff because the product line is very highly regarded as being accurate in the lumen reportings. The Malkoff line also got started when the founder needed to spot critters at a distance.

So for a rifle or shotgun light is it better to get a light designed just for that vs trying to get a tactical light that I can use handheld and mount when I need to?

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Generally speaking, yes. Especially if you want multiple modes, or more additional features beyond a simple on/off. Multi-mode lights do not handle recoil well - if only because if the batteries bounce, that will break the circuit and change the mode on your light. Which could be really, really bad. On top of which, more features typically means more circuitry to be abused by recoil.

Should I include Chinese made lights and are there any that you would recommend that could even come close to the reliability of Surefire, Malkoff, etc?

Would I have to go a bit higher than the $100 price range I'm looking for?

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At which point, I can't make any recommendations. I don't spend more than $45 or so on Chinese lights. There are plenty of folks that have had good experiences with all sorts of brands - but one thing they all have in common is that any warranty repair will need to be sent overseas. As long as you're ok with that, cool.

I prefer Malkoff because the parts are modular - I can replace the broken part myself without having to buy a whole new light. Or if I need to contact him for warranty repairs, the shop is in Alabama. Likewise, Surefire is based in California, in addition to the brand reputation and performance.

Hmm I have a bit to think about. I also want a set up to use with a pistol. If I got a rail mounted light, it'd be the Streamlight TLR1 HL. TLR2 sounds great, but is pricey. The problem with a mounted pistol light is that there aren't many holsters to fit it, and the ones that do would likely be too bulky, it would be for a Glock 20.

So maybe I should just get a Malkoff or Surefire and be done with it. That way I could hold it in my left hand, pistol in right, and then I could also mount it to a rifle/shotgun and maybe get a dedicated rifle/shotgun light later on in the future. Grizzman, I know you said you used a Hound Dog for a rifle. I could also use the light for general purpose. Would I be ok without strobe? I wonder how much I would actually need or use strobe in real life situations. What do you guys think?

For Malkoff would I be better off with a MD2 high low ring or a Hound Dog? I've looked into the Hound Dog before, and it seems like it has good throw but also decent spill. I know the MD2 is less bright, but how does it compare with the Hound Dog as far as beam profile and throw and spill?

Also, are there any Surefires I should consider? I don't like the 6p interface where you have to turn the tail for constant on, but there are other options I'm not aware of I'm sure.

Thanks

TA_ls1 said:

Hmm I have a bit to think about. I also want a set up to use with a pistol. If I got a rail mounted light, it'd be the Streamlight TLR1 HL. TLR2 sounds great, but is pricey. The problem with a mounted pistol light is that there aren't many holsters to fit it, and the ones that do would likely be too bulky, it would be for a Glock 20.

So maybe I should just get a Malkoff or Surefire and be done with it. That way I could hold it in my left hand, pistol in right, and then I could also mount it to a rifle/shotgun and maybe get a dedicated rifle/shotgun light later on in the future. Grizzman, I know you said you used a Hound Dog for a rifle. I could also use the light for general purpose. Would I be ok without strobe? I wonder how much I would actually need or use strobe in real life situations. What do you guys think?

For Malkoff would I be better off with a MD2 high low ring or a Hound Dog? I've looked into the Hound Dog before, and it seems like it has good throw but also decent spill. I know the MD2 is less bright, but how does it compare with the Hound Dog as far as beam profile and throw and spill?

Also, are there any Surefires I should consider? I don't like the 6p interface where you have to turn the tail for constant on, but there are other options I'm not aware of I'm sure.

Thanks

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I personally use a Surefire C2 Centurion modded with an XM-L drop-in and Li-Ion as my "weapon light". The drop-in is a single mode and I use the twisty cap because it does prevent unintentionally locking it on when I don't want to due to an extra heavy press for momentary, which could happen under stress. You could get a McClickie switch for a Surefire I think if you wanted it. I've been thinking of tracking down an original Surefire clickie for my 6P which I use at work. You could also use a Solarforce switch on a 6P to try it out for a while as they are inexpensive and yet still decent quality.

TA_ls1 said:

Would I be ok without strobe? I wonder how much I would actually need or use strobe in real life situations. What do you guys think?

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Strobe is for disco, not weapon lights!

I have never in my life needed a strobe mode. It's typically a "value added" feature with very few practical benefits. There are two exceptions to that rule:

1. A user on here swears by using strobe as a warning light for oncoming cars. Not to knock his opinion, but I think pointing a flashlight, strobe or not, at an on-coming car is asking for trouble.
2. A European police force has a strobe feature in all of their standard issue lights. The specific country escapes me but there's a thread dedicated to the use of tactical strobe which mentions it in some detail. I will point out that this is the only agency I've ever heard of to actively use a strobe feature on their lights.

Hypothetically, if you're out in the woods, you could use a strobe as a personal beacon. But I just bought a dedicated personal beacon for $20 if and when I need it.

Re: MD2 versus Hound Dog. The Hound Dog is a three or four cell flashlight, using CR123 primaries. It's a big boy. I'd defer to @Grizzman on how to mount that sucker to a rifle/shotgun.

However, if you want to be able to pick things out at 250 meters, you'll want the Hound Dog. The MD2 is a personal use light - about the size of a Surefire 6P.

This raises another point - mounting hardware. A "multi-purpose" hand-held light will need separate mounting hardware, which will depend on your weapon.

@Grizzman has some great insights into mounting the flashlight to a weapon, interestingly using the same flashlight models we're discussing here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ifle-light-Looking-at-Surefire-6P-and-Malkoff

I had forgotten about that thread, so thanks for linking to it.

For grins, here's a photo I took years ago of the Hound Dog attached to an MD3 body, on a 7.62 NATO rifle.









The mount in the first photo is a LaRue LT606 offset light mount, which positions the light a significant distance from the barrel. It allows for quick attach/detach of the mount/light from the rifle, but a tool is required to remove the light from the mount. Since that old thread, I've purchased an Elzetta ZROC, which provides tool-less attach/detach of both the mount and the light. It also positions the light much closer to the bore axis. My most recent light mount acquisition was the VLTOR SMQ-OCG, which is an offset mount with an ADM quick release lever which applies clamping pressure to both the rail and the light. The Hound Dog is in this mount in the second photo. As can be seen, this mount positions the light closer to the barrel than the LaRue. If you've got a Picatinny rail, I can take photos, measurements, etc of the above mounts with a variety of 1" lights, as well as feedback on a couple different KeyMod 1" mounts. We could likely have a complete conversation on light mount options.

It should be pretty clear that the Hound Dog is a large head. After dinner, I'll take a quick photo of the MD2 head attached to the MD3 body. This head is the same size for the M61 drop-in, M61T, HOT, etc.

About a year ago, I strobed myself with about 5 different lights ranging from 170 lumens (HDS) through 750 (Quark Tactical) up to 900 (Elzetta AVS), and also 3000 (Oveready Wasp) lumens, with dark adapted eyes. I may be the exception, but I could have stared at the lights till the batteries died in complete comfort.

That's a cool set up above, I like it.

So to help me decide on a Malkoff, I see the MD2 M61 is rated at 325 lumens and 300ft throw. The Hound Dog 1000 lumens, 1000ft. You guys have mentioned Malkoff doesn't inflate their lumen and throw ratings, so I'm wondering how they compare to some lights I have since I'm having trouble finding videos or pics, especially recent ones of the current Malkoffs models/LEDs.

Does anyone know how the MD2 and Hound Dog compare to the beams of the Zebralight SC62w, the SC600 MK3 HI, and the Nitecore mh20gt? For example, is the 325 for the MD2 the same as say the H2 setting on the Zebralights rated at 350? Or is it brighter because they rate the lumens differently, like OTF? What about the Hound Dog? It's rated at 1000 just like the 3 lights I have, will it look the same as far as brightness? What about throw? Thanks

I have an SC52W, which likely puts out a bit less than 500 lumens when fed by a Li-Ion 14500. I've got my meter attached to a tripod in the basement, so I can take some quick measurements today after dark. I fully expect the cool M61 to deliver a bit more candela than the more powerful ZebraLight, but not significantly more. The Hound Dog is in a whole different class compared to the M61.

A few years ago, I took lux measurements at 100 yards with some lights, including both neutral and cool high voltage XM-L2 Hound Dogs, and a 450 lumen M61 SHO. The M61SHO delivered 0.69 lux onto the meter's sensor, an amount inadequate, IMHO, for target engagement at that distance. The neutral high voltage Hound Dog delivered 2.44 lux, and the cool version delivered 2.70 lux. The cool 18650 version of the Hound Dog, which can be driven by primary CR123s in an emergency, will likely approach 3 lux. My 18650 Hound Dog is the neutral version, and I plan to measure it at 100 yards soon.

It seems the M61HOT hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, which is a shame. It is the 2nd best throwing Malkoff, and it totally embarrasses the m61 in throw, due to it's use of an optic instead of a reflector, and higher output. It delivers more spill for closer range situations than the first generation Malkoff M61T and Surefire KE2-A head. My primary 5.56 AR has an M61HOT screwed onto an MD2 that's secured in a Noveske KeyMod mount.

Here are some candela measurements taken with my Extech EasyView 30 light meter.

The SC52W generated 2,960 candela, measured at a distance of 5 meters, from a freshly charged AW IMR 14500.
The cool M61 generated 5,040 candela from two partially depleted AW 18500s.
The M61HOT generated 16,350 candela from a freshly charged 3000 mAh hybrid AW IMR 18650.
The neutral 18650 Hound Dog generated 25,600 candela from a freshly charged NCR18650B.

So should I consider the M61HOT vs M61? The only thing that's steered me away from that is the Malkoff site says the beam is not designed for close up/white walls due to it's throwy profile, but idk. I want to have the option to mount it but also use it for general purposes. I guess the most useful throw I would need would be 100 yards. Anything more would be a plus, but not at the expense of having useful spill closeup for hiking, or hypothetical situations like home defense. I try to imagine a football field to think throw, and I don't think I'd need much more distance than that.

Yes, I think the M61HOT is a much better option for you than the M61. After dark, I can measure the primary spill size at some distance.

Reducing the throw requirement to a minimum of 100 yards opens up additional possibilities, but the standard M61 is still inadequate. This is due to two factors, a smaller reflector than is typical for a P60 drop-in, and the reflector's light orange peel texture.

The M61HOT product page states, "This Light is Designed for Maximum Reach in a Small Format. If You are a White Wall Hunter, This is NOT the Head For You (it does not have a beautiful, symetrical beam on a white wall).". The important part of this statement is in parentheses, and isn't related to a throwy profile. Mine has a small central spot that is nice and round, and this is how it is able to generate the specified candela. The spill that immediately surrounds it is quite bright and is square-ish in shape and not centered around the spot. I consider the Malkoff M60 and Surefire LX2/E2D LED to have barely adequate spill for general use, but not the M61HOT.

Where are you located?