Swearing off the lithium

So trying to build my own little setup of non lithium lights....

Tiny edc thrunite tie or ultratac k18
Medium I'm looking at either manker t01 olight s1a baton or klarus mi7
Big boys thrunite tn4a hi or Nitecore ea51 (I've possibly got that Nitecore wrong...It's the one that runs 8 AA batteries though).

Anyway...Without going into the tints, beams, etc etc what are people's general, personal thoughts on the best non lithium ion lights? All views appreciated.

Multiple battery flashlights can have individual cells fail prematurely, causing complications. Are you going to use NiMH? Any flashlight that needs significant power deserves a significant battery. Perhaps you can describe to us why you feel like swearing off lithium is a good idea.

KITROBASKIN said:

Multiple battery flashlights can have individual cells fail prematurely, causing complications. Are you going to use NiMH? Any flashlight that needs significant power deserves a significant battery. Perhaps you can describe to us why you feel like swearing off lithium is a good idea.

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Yes I'm going with eneloops. I find lithium batteries a faff to be honest, i am intrinsically lazy and having to keep a battery within certain parameters is too much like hard work. That coupled with the slight fear i have of one of my 18650s blowing up...I know it's not common but it's possible and far more likely with a lithium ion...And whilst i would dearly love a great big multi lithium torch, the added faff of having to put multiple batteries in all at exactly the same charge and the resulting catastrophe if you don't just puts me off.
I know most of you folks are diligent and sensible...I'm not really...And i can see a disaster in my near future lol

blindedbythenight said:

So trying to build my own little setup of non lithium lights....

Tiny edc thrunite tie or ultratac k18
Medium I'm looking at either manker t01 olight s1a baton or klarus mi7
Big boys thrunite tn4a hi or Nitecore ea51 (I've possibly got that Nitecore wrong...It's the one that runs 8 AA batteries though).

Anyway...Without going into the tints, beams, etc etc what are people's general, personal thoughts on the best non lithium ion lights? All views appreciated.

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I think you may be referring to the EA81.

I'm from a different school of thought. I cannot stand constantly buying batteries for my lights, and wondering if they're going to leak all over the lights (as alkaline batteries tend to do, even long before their expiration date). I've had too many lights ruined that way. I stopped buying alkaline batteries, years ago.

But, it sounds like you're going with NiMh batteries, which are quite safe, but you sacrifice output and run times, and overall performance, unless you're using something that runs on multiple batteries, like the EA81 you mentioned, which make the light considerably bulkier, for every day carry.

I haven't really kept up with the latest trends, with respect to non-lithium-ion powered lights (and I own a very small percentage of them, compared to the lithium ion lights), so I'm not sure what I could recommend that would compare with a lithium ion powered light, in the way of output, run times, and overall performance - and, for me, it's all about the performance/reliability of a light. Tints are really important to me, as well, and it can be difficult finding a light I like, with the tint I want (I prefer neutral and warmer tints, over cool white, for most of my applications, although I still own several cool white lights, which see very little use, these days.

I've grown accustomed to routinely charging my batteries, and knowing that I always have a full charge on a light, at any given time - good to go, on a moment's notice (regardless of whether they're NiMhs, LiFePO4s, lithium ion, or whatever). Batteries for whatever light(s) I used that day, automatically get charged, that evening, without exception.

Understood and respected. Please keep us updated on your experience.

blindedbythenight said:

Yes I'm going with eneloops. I find lithium batteries a faff to be honest, i am intrinsically lazy and having to keep a battery within certain parameters is too much like hard work. That coupled with the slight fear i have of one of my 18650s blowing up...I know it's not common but it's possible and far more likely with a lithium ion...And whilst i would dearly love a great big multi lithium torch, the added faff of having to put multiple batteries in all at exactly the same charge and the resulting catastrophe if you don't just puts me off.
I know most of you folks are diligent and sensible...I'm not really...And i can see a disaster in my near future lol

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blindedbythenight said:

Yes I'm going with eneloops. I find lithium batteries a faff to be honest, i am intrinsically lazy and having to keep a battery within certain parameters is too much like hard work. That coupled with the slight fear i have of one of my 18650s blowing up...I know it's not common but it's possible and far more likely with a lithium ion...And whilst i would dearly love a great big multi lithium torch, the added faff of having to put multiple batteries in all at exactly the same charge and the resulting catastrophe if you don't just puts me off.
I know most of you folks are diligent and sensible...I'm not really...And i can see a disaster in my near future lol

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I think many people have exaggerated the problems/dangers associated with lithium ion batteries, and, in many cases the problems occurred, while not using good batteries and chargers - or using them in an unsafe manner.

If you use high quality batteries and smart chargers, from reputable sources, problems like these are greatly minimized.

I liken it to knowing that it's possible that one can die in a plane crash, or be struck by lightning, but stressing out over it doesn't really make sense. Plane travel is statistically still the most efficient, and one of the safest forms of long distance travel, over driving.

KITROBASKIN said:

Understood and respected. Please keep us updated on your experience.

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I second this, and would be very interested in seeing what the original poster ended up buying, to serve his lighting needs.

Sometimes, I get asked, by people who think along the same terms, and don't want to be bothered with the safety concerns over lithium ion battery-powered devices, what the best light might be for their needs.

s

KITROBASKIN said:

Multiple battery flashlights can have individual cells fail prematurely, causing complications. Are you going to use NiMH? Any flashlight that needs significant power deserves a significant battery. Perhaps you can describe to us why you feel like swearing off lithium is a good idea.

Click to expand...

OP please stick to WHAT you want, and avoid any WHY you want tangents, as you'll never win those. GLHF

It is indeed the EA81 I was fumbling for, and do you know what I love about it....It looks like a torch...You know when you watched land of the giants or the A-team and they used a torch...Or if an action man had a toy torch...It would look like the EA81, i know its an asthetic but such is my shallowness haha.

leon2245 said:

s

OP please stick to WHAT you want, and avoid any WHY you want tangents, as you'll never win those. GLHF

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Haha indeed...I think if anything I've "found" reasons because I have what I consider completed my requirements in lithium ion and just want a justifiable excuse to buy more lights...I imagine in a year or so I'll be back wanting to find my ultimate set of 18650s haha.

The Fenix TK41 is an 8 AA celled light that runs on NiMH and alkaleaks.

I've got a couple of the older versions with the single emitter that I purchased solely because of battery availability of AA sized cells.

I use Eneloops exclusively as I too have had many items wrecked by leaking alkaline batteries.

Leon2245, KITROBASIN never directed blindedbythenight to ignore his reasoning for an alkaline celled light. He pointed out that some of the supposed negatives of lithium were overblown.

Blindedbythenight, whatever floats your boat is the light to get. You're paying for it, so purchase away.

Just for clarification i would be only using eneloops. Thanks for the info on the Fenix, whilst the red and blue novelty of running around pretending to be a police car might keep me entertained for a bit, it's only half the output of the Nitecore and I've never been the biggest Fenix fan after a couple of disappointing lights. Any info on multi AA lights though gratefully accepted

To me:

Lithium cells are like Ferrari. Super high performance, high maintenance and quirky. Get authentic.

NiMh are like Toyota/Lexus. High performance, very little maintenance if any and extremely reliable and dependable.

Alka-leaks are like a Ford Pinto, get you where you need to go but at any moment, boom.

LeanBurn said:

To me:

Lithium cells are like Ferrari. Super high performance, high maintenance and quirky. Get authentic.

NiMh are like Toyota/Lexus. High performance, very little maintenance if any and extremely reliable and dependable.

Alka-leaks are like a Ford Pinto, get you where you need to go but at any moment, boom.

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Haha....I used to hope I'd get places despite nothing working in my first car...And I'm pretty sure I would be the kind of person to drive out of the Lamborghini showroom and crash a mile away showing off to women I'd never hope of getting....I'm currently looking at buying a Toyota....So i guess that says it all. Good analogy!

Consider Amazon Basics NiMh (Amaloops...it is what I use), the Japanese made ones are still available (at least they used to be) are in the same league as Enerloops, but at less of a premium price and reputable, lots of threads on them. If not Enerloops are well trusted.

NoNotAgain said:

The Fenix TK41 is an 8 AA celled light that runs on NiMH and alkaleaks.

I've got a couple of the older versions with the single emitter that I purchased solely because of battery availability of AA sized cells.

I use Eneloops exclusively as I too have had many items wrecked by leaking alkaline batteries.

Leon2245, KITROBASIN never directed blindedbythenight to ignore his reasoning for an alkaline celled light. He pointed out that some of the supposed negatives of lithium were overblown.

Blindedbythenight, whatever floats your boat is the light to get. You're paying for it, so purchase away.

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I actually have one of those, and can vouch for it, being a very solid multi-AA light.

It's similar, in size, to a 2D Maglite, but so much more solid, with far superior water proofing, knurling, anodizing, more effective spot/spill beam combination (fixed beam - no need to focus for the best of both worlds), multiple modes, and it uses far more Eco-friendly, better performing batteries.

I'm using Duraloops (Duracell "Ion Core" 2400 mAh NiMhs) in mine, with no problems. You can find these in any Target or WalMart, very inexpensively, but they're great batteries.

Mine is an older version, as well, but no complaints. Solid light. I bought this one (along with a TK22, and a TK51) used, but in fantastic shape, on CPF MarketPlace, in June of 2013, form user surefirefenix. All of these lights have worked flawlessly

Yes, I have a range of NiMH-powered torches, too.

My favorites include ...

• Peak Shasta (N cell)
• Peak Eiger (AAA)
• Peak El Capitan, and Peak Logan (AA)

• SureFire Titan Plus (AAA)

• Malkoff (many different setups, notably two M30 / single AA variants, and an M60LL / double AA option, with a variety of hosts)

• McGizmo Mule (AA)
• McGizmo Haiku (2xAA)

... and some other full custom options.

NoNotAgain said:

The Fenix TK41 is an 8 AA celled light that runs on NiMH and alkaleaks.

Blindedbythenight, whatever floats your boat is the light to get. You're paying for it, so purchase away.

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Absolutely. We all have different lighting needs. If we all needed (or wanted) the same exact thing, these forums (and the world, in general) would be a very boring place in which to partake. There is no right or wrong answer, when it comes to fulfilling our lighting needs; just what's right for each of us. Additionally, some of us choose to use a variety of many different types of battery, to fulfill certain tasks, at certain times.

That's half the fun

Lads...I had a play with all my lithium ion torches last night...Am I being silly getting rid? Am I likely to find anything as powerful in such a small form factor? What are the actual dangers? Am i being paranoid? Worse case scenarios.....I run an 18650 down completely, will that just knacker the battery and render it unusable without it being dangerous? I know I'm talking to a semi biased group here but give me a concise sensible reasoning for keeping/getting rid of my lithiums.....Or ignore the prattlings of someone who can never make his mind up, the choice is yours hehe.

blindedbythenight said:

Am I being silly getting rid?

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Probably, but take that as a compliment.

Thing is, there are people out there I'd rather not see handling LiIon batteries, but you don't seem to be one of them. ;-)

There ARE things that can go wrong, but if you:
- turn in any battery with signs of mechanical damage
- avoid overdischarge (charge after use)
- use high quality cells and chargers
- always use protected batteries if you use multiple, especially in series
- protect well against shorts, especially loose batteries

then most of our LiIon usage is safer than a cellphone.

There are people out there buying the cheapest fake random crap on eBay, then dropping it in their pocket along with keys. Just like gasoline, it's pretty safe when used right, but should be treated with respect.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you're not completely oblivious to the risks involved, and paradoxically, that's also what qualifies you to handle them safely.

I'm not on a mission to convert you to the light and bright side of LiIon, but don't get rid of the lights for the wrong reasons. Keep them, or get rid of them for better reasons.

If I were in your shoes, I'd charge all your LiIons now, but:
- recycle any with a voltage below 2V
- inspect for mechanical damage before placing in charger (always)
- recycle any you have a bad feeling about, bought from a suspect seller for example
- check them once in a while during charging, for excessive heating
- develop a habit or rotating battery in use, always charging after use, with inspection. That way, no battery will self discharge to a dangerously low level, they all get inspected (voltage, damage, heating during charging) and cleared.

It's not a lot of work, and you'd bump the safety and feeling of safety, if you don't already do this.

If you've got money to spare, you could also get an analyzing charger, giving you even more data to work with. I'm partial to the SkyRc MC3000, but it's on the expensive side.

If you'd like to be even more careful, you could set aside your current stock, and order newer safer batteries (depending on what you have now).