LGHG2 VS. VTC5-Capacity Retention Test

Capolini

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This is a simple test. To me it is practical, informative and useful.

People like HKJ are valuable to me for ALL the testing he does. One thing he can not do because it would be way too time consuming, is to test a battery continuously for its entire life time to see how fast or how slow it may degrade.

Finding out which battery has the most capacity and least amount of voltage curve is very helpful in helping me determine which battery to get.However, it is impossible to know its longevity and rate of degradation until we use them and record their on going history.

I have the time to do that and am a fanatic for doing and keeping track of Voltage checks, battery cycles,capacity tests and purchase dates.

Here are the stats for the batteries:

The discharge rates are ALL @ 1Amp,HKJ and Mine.

VTC5-2600mAh/HKJ-2575
Purchased:6.17.2015
Cycles:170
Used in: SDMinivn- 2X/Week

LGHG2-3000mAh-HKJ-2804
Purchased:1.5.2016
Cycles:105
Used in:TX25C2vn-2X/Week

I just did these tests over night and this morning. I put the batteries in slots 1 and 4. Then I switched the batteries so both can be compared in their respective slots.


LG.VTC5.1.9.21.2017.jpg
LG.VTC5.9.21.207.jpg


As you can see the VTC5 tested similar in both slots and averaged a capacity of 2456mAh. Pretty impressive after 27 months old and 170 cycles.

On the other hand[for whatever reason] the LGHG2 had a difference of 207mAh from slot 1 to slot 4.The average is 2469mAh which is far below its rated capacity.


The LGHG2's numbers do NOT surprise me because it is noticeable in my voltages when I get home and the fact that the light is not as hot as it use to be after 10 minutes of use!!!


The bottom line is that a battery[LGHG2] that is 7 months younger with 65 LESS cycles, has lost a considerable amount more capacity than the VTC5, which is rated at 2600mAh compared to the LGHG2 which is rated at 3000mAh.

Being that the batteries were in the same slots gives a pretty good idea of their capacity regardless of how accurate the OPUS may or may not be. I have found that my Opus averages about 3% high.

I only had one other LGHG2 cell before this. I recycled it after about 16 months. this was Before I had my Opus. However, it was easy to tell that it was losing capacity. My run times and voltages easily determined that.

Your experiences may be different.This is just my experience with 2 X LGHG2. From that experience I would never buy them again. I will stick to 30Q and VTC5/VTC6!:thumbsup:

It is also important to note that both these batteries have been used in the same chargers, my Fenix-ARE-C2 and my KP L2.

Something else I have noticed, regardless of which charger I use.They are having problems terminating the voltage. I just pulled it off the charger after not terminating for about 30 minutes when it was @ 4.18v. It was VERY HOT!! I think I may recycle this one! W/ a brand new 30Q for only $5 and a 1.5 mile ride to Liionwholesale,,,it would certainly be worth it
 

Capolini

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Good information, Cap!
You are certainly a meticulous & patient fellow.


Thanks,,,,meticulous, I will agree. Patient,,,,,,,getting a little better each day!

Actually I am very patient with my hobby, recording info. ect. People is where I still have work to do!
 

ven

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Good info Roberto, thanks for sharing.......another word that springs to mind is fastidious! :)
 

Capolini

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Gentlemen, What about my simple minded and informative test?

Maybe you guys are not as obsessively and compulsively efficient as me and just use the batteries without all those stats that I keep!

It was only 2 X LGHG2 but that was enough for me.
 

ven

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Being honest capo, i do have interest in cells and chargers. I always top cells off(kind of a voltage OCD thing) after use ready. No waiting till next day! So i am quite obsessive in that regard, cells have a place etc etc, lights have cells and locked out. Now for me, if my cell term V is getting bellow 4.18 i take note and check. If V drops bellow 4.15v i take note and check further. Other than that, i simply use and enjoy. I dont have the patience to do full tests on the Opus, if it showed a 3000mah cell at 2900mah or 3100mah...........it makes no difference to me at all. But then which mah would i believe, under or over measured.

Over the years, i have not found the need to recycle many cells at all, most are in use or some stored ready for use. If some need replacing i simply just buy some more as they have a life span and not a long term investment. For me(subjective and no right or wrong), i dont care about charging to 4.1v, dont care about using a lower rate to get a few more cycles years down the line. I just use and enjoy, of course i treat them right but not to the point it takes up time which is IMO not worth the extra effort/fuss.

I still have pany A and B cells in use, these have been superseded several times in mah and A ratings. So no real point for me looking after cells so much that i would still be using the equivalent of 2000mah today . Or like using well looked after vtc3 when i could be using vtc6 as maybe a better example. These are just my thoughts, not saying i am right, just how i feel.

Respect for keeping charts/lists though, i just dont feel i need to . It is certainly beneficial for the unorganised ones...............me!
 

StorminMatt

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It would have been more informative to know what the capacity of the HG2's were when they were new. Many manufacturers tend to overrate their capacities (Sanyo/Panasonic is pretty bad in this respect). Although I have not tested it with my own HG2's, LG may be one of them. Sonys, on the other hand, live up to their ratings (and then some at times). I know, for instance, that my VTC6's are almost as good as a new NCR18650GA. It doesn't surprise me that you are getting better numbers from the VTC5's for this reason. Now if your HG2's were 3000mAH (or anything close) when new, then THAT would not be good.
 

Bdm82

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Good test sharing Capo. Your dog walking routine is what provides the consistent repeatibily right?

I tend to use most cells more like ven described, though I do tightly control cells I use for review testing.

I'd love to see HJK test a couple cells, send them to capo for a few months of use, then see HKJ test again. It'd be interesting to see not just capacity changes like this but full output curves as well... that'd be neat.

I'll be keeping an eye on my own HG2s. I've got some more new ones arriving soon that I can benchmark.
 

Capolini

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It would have been more informative to know what the capacity of the HG2's were when they were new. Many manufacturers tend to overrate their capacities (Sanyo/Panasonic is pretty bad in this respect). Although I have not tested it with my own HG2's, LG may be one of them. Sonys, on the other hand, live up to their ratings (and then some at times). I know, for instance, that my VTC6's are almost as good as a new NCR18650GA. It doesn't surprise me that you are getting better numbers from the VTC5's for this reason. Now if your HG2's were 3000mAH (or anything close) when new, then THAT would not be good.


That would have helped but I did not have the Opus when the Batteries were new,,,hence HKJ's number for the LGHG2[2804mAh] and VTC5[2575 mAh. None of this is perfect, I am just giving a general Idea and what the state of the batteries are in NOW along with the cycle information. That in itself can help show the difference in degradation between the VTC5 and the LGHG2.
 
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terjee

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I did a vaping comparison of LG HG2 and VTC5, and found you could take marginally more from the VTC5 (not the LG HG2), when both were fresh, at 15W.
 

Capolini

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I did a vaping comparison of LG HG2 and VTC5, and found you could take marginally more from the VTC5 (not the LG HG2), when both were fresh, at 15W.

Thanks for your testing. :D

When you say marginally more do you mean drawing more amps? More output or Both?

My guess is the amp draw since the VTC5 is rated more and is 2600mAh.
 

Capolini

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I did a vaping comparison of LG HG2 and VTC5, and found you could take marginally more from the VTC5 (not the LG HG2), when both were fresh, at 15W.

I forgot to ask you the most important thing,,,the reason for my simple test!

What did you find in terms of Longevity? Which battery degraded at a faster rate?

,Thanks........Capolini
 

terjee

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Sorry for the short explanation.

What I did was use a good quality ecigg, that measures energy taken from the battery. So it becomes more of a real-world test than a laboratory-type test, but that was the goal at the time.

Primary goal was to test for longevity, not just in terms of mAh, but joules or Wh with that specific application.

While the LG HG2 has a higher mAh-rating, the VTC5 keeps the voltage up better. This matters for two reasons. One is that in a regulated device, you'd then discharge at a lower mA-rate, to get the same amount if energy. And with the higher voltage, you can retrieve more of the energy before hitting the low voltage threshold of the device.
 

Capolini

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Great explanation,,Thanks.

I have plenty of 30Q and VTC6 for my modded torches. But when the time comes to get more I am either getting VTC5 or 30Q. I know how well my VTC5 have worked and my 30Q are not old enough yet to see how the degrading process is in comparison to the VTC5.

I just got 4 X VTC6 a few months ago,,,so they are not yet proven or disproven in terms of longevity.

I do have 2 X VTC6 that I got in August of 2016. I have noticed what another member stated[link that tested them over cycles]. I must say they are behaving like the test from that link. That behavior is they degrade even at a slightly faster rate than the LGHG2!

I just charged my 2 X VTC6 yesterday. They came off the charger @ 4.21v. In less than 5 minutes they were @ 4.18v. Now they are @ 4.14v. Not the end of the world but my VTC5 are more than twice as old and they came off the charger yesterday @ 4.20v. They are now @ 4.18v. So they only lost 0.02v compared to the VTC6 which lost 0.07v!

I am certain that in Three days when I use the torch w/ the VTC5, it will be no lower than 4.17v.For longevity and durability it is better than the VTC6 and the LGHG2.

My analyzing brain will have to determine[down the road] whether I use the 30Q or VTC5 and lose some capacity.

Here is the link for LGHG2 and VTC6 and how fast they degrade. In GERMAN but can be translated in English.

http://www.mountainprophet.de/2016/07/22/eine-stichprobe-cyclelife-test-sony-vtc6-vs-lg-hg2/
 

terjee

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The two battery types I'm buying these days, are VTC5A (more power, less voltage drop) and VTC6 (more mAh for low current).

VTC5 (non-A version) is still great, but if price is the same, I'd go 5A or 6.

I'm not a huge fan of the 30Q, because the top is ever so slightly recessed (at least in mine), so it'll be more picky about placements in chargers and similar.

In the chart just above this comment, do take note of the "15A continuous discharge". That's quite heave if your primary use is flashlights.
 

terjee

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*sigh* @ self

I think I've forgotten to mention the most interesting empirical evidence I have, in case you're into that sort of thing. :)

Using batteries for vaping, I'm even more careful than with lights. Higher drain, closer to face and so on.

I set up a plan to relegate vaping batteries down to other uses (lights, backup) when they show signs of wear. This can be drop in capacity, increase in internal resistance, or increased voltage drop when I "fire". Or anything else that makes me suspicious, such as torn wrap, noticing heating etc.

I started out with getting (I think) 8x VTC5 and 8x LG HG2, over a month or so when I started, about 600 days ago.

Now, none of my LG HG2 batteries are still rated good for vaping, but all of my VTC5 are.

I do realize this is all a bit too empirical and random to be a lab quality result, but since I realized all of one type is out, and all of the others are still in, I figured it interesting enough to mention.

As an apropos, Mooch (the HKJ of the vaping world in a way), has considered dropping the LG HG2 off of his recommended battery list, in part because of high number of fakes, and in part because it doesn't offer any advantage over otherwise comparable batteries.

The LG HG2 is still a good battery, don't get me wrong, but there's not much reason to choose it if buying fresh.
 

Capolini

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There is know way to know for sure what the results would be unless someone tests them @5A or 10A. MOOCH/another vapor most likely won't.

I would bet the results would still be the same. After all, aren't the LGHG2 and VTC6 able to deliver higher amps yet they are degrading quicker when it is @ 15A?

I do NOT vape or smoke! I use these in MODIFIED TORCHES and the 30Q fit fine in all my lights.
 
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