Who is going crazy, me or Eagtac?

Hi guys.
I have been lurking on this forum for couple of years now taking your advice on the flashlights for my work and enjoying your reviews, but now I also need your advice and opinion. So I purchased the new EAGTAC T25L-R in a kit with the XHP35 HI E2 led option.
After a month of waiting (shipping from US to UK) I got it out of the box and I noticed a problem straight away. Big dark yellow spot right in the centre of the hotspot. In addition there is a hair like imperfection in the same area. I need you guys to tell me is it normal or do I have a right to warranty this torch. I never had this symptom with any of my Nitecores, Olights or Klaruses...

It's hard to capture with a camera, video below shows the problem much better.







In my email exchange with Eagtac customer service they indicated that they were asking their electroplating factory to send some orange peel reflectors to test to see if this improves the situation, but also said the yellow spot is normal and asked me to send them photos to compare to their samples.

In addition to my previous email with images here's a video showing the problem with the led. At longer distances I'm operating a ring of light with a dark hole in the middle. please remember human eyes have better dynamic range so this torch is really unusable..
https://youtu.be/EtKVSICGK-g


And that's it, no mention about a replacement, return or anything. I need this torch to inspect building so need an even and uniform beam to see the mold, structural damage etc. Am I going crazy or are they just blowing me off?Any thoughts or advice will be much appreciated guys.

I call it the "fried egg beam". Seen it with a few lights.
If they balk you can put a bit of scotch tape over the lens and difuse that yellow away.

My main issue is that I have emailed them that I have a problem with their light but Eagtac only response is "you might be right, well fix it in the future".

bykfixer. If you watch the video you will see how bad it is. This light's main selling point is it's range (400yards), well at 50y I'm operating a big doughnut, and I don't thin tape over the lense will help.

bykfixer said:

I call it the "fried egg beam". Seen it with a few lights.
If they balk you can put a bit of scotch tape over the lens and difuse that yellow away.

Click to expand...

My personal experience has been is that "fried egg" effect tends to be an artifact of the reflector though some emitters seem to be a bit more prone to the effect than others.
(ahem.... early production run CREE XM-L2 T6..I'm looking at YOU)

zespectre said:

My personal experience has been is that "fried egg" effect tends to be an artifact of the reflector though some emitters seem to be a bit more prone to the effect than others.
(ahem.... early production run CREE XM-L2 T6..I'm looking at YOU)

Click to expand...

Agreed.
My first experience with it was a check out counter type light that touted it's beautiful neutral beam. Yeah neutral alright. Once I had scuffed the lens a bit it was actually pretty good.

But yup, it seems to be a reflector thing. I don't own anything "throwy" with a T6 though...

zespectre said:

My personal experience has been is that "fried egg" effect tends to be an artifact of the reflector though some emitters seem to be a bit more prone to the effect than others.

Click to expand...

My understanding of the optics (meaning here the study of light, not what the word usually refers to on these forums, a curved lens) is that any imperfection we see in a hotspot must be due to reflector artifacts, as the hotspot is the light that bounces off the reflector, while, conversely, the spill is light direct from the emitter (or lamp) that never touches the reflector.

Yet in my personal experience, this is not always the case. Sometimes there is, in my case, crud on the lamp, which I would presume is messing with the light bouncing off the reflector and causing imperfection in the hotspot. I finally figured this out by noticing sometimes my incan hotspot gets an hourglass shape, or seems to have a crease in it, and after not being able to find any debris on the reflector, and then cleaning the bulb with alcohol, it often solves the problem, returning my hotspot to perfect and round. This surprised me.

I also get a distictly yellowy hotspot artifact with this light with 3B tint, and so do many others who have described the same problem. I am pretty sure it is not the reflector, but, again, I expect it to be a reflector issue, and maybe it is, I just don't believe it is. Under close scrutiny, the reflector appears flawless. I could be completely wrong, of course, but in this case, I think it is a combination of a flawed emitter and the smooth reflector magnifying the unfortunate variation from an otherwise acceptable neutral tint.

With Eagtac's reply, I think they believe an orange peel reflector would mitigate the effect of a flaw in the emitter being magnified enough by the smooth reflector to be visible and annoying, perhaps by washing out or diluting the effect of a small flaw in the phosphor of the emitter, a flaw perhaps invisible to the naked eye when examining the emitter closely, where the tint really is that ugly yellow.

If you are otherwise satisfied with the flashlight, the host and UI, perhaps contact Vinh for an emitter swap, and he will make certain no such artifacts exist when he returns the light to you. I'd ask him for his recommendation on a high CRI emitter in the tint range of your preference. While this will void your Eagtac warranty, Vinh also warranties his work.

However...

Mattbigmonster said:

I need this torch to inspect building so need an even and uniform beam to see the mold, structural damage etc.

Click to expand...

...sounds to me like what you really want is a decent incan, as there is no substitute to an incandescent light source when you need to see all you can see as accurately as possible. Runtime and maximum brightness are not everything, but accurately seeing what can be seen is really the ball game.

/too many words

I guess its probably normal.. i have a nitecore concept 1 with the xhp 35 e2 with dome, and dark yellow spot is visible on the white wall..

Thanks guys for your input. My main question is, am I crazy to expect an even beam and am I crazy when I say this light is not up to expectations (not fit for my task). I need to see the far walls and sealings and asses them for any imperfections like cracks bulging or mold.
Apart from the lumens this light have a beam pattewrn like an old soviet era flat battery torch:

If it's not fit for the purpose for which you bought it, you should ask for a swap/replacement. I wouldn't be overly impressed with a hole of darkness in the middle of the beam, and if you explain why it's unsuitable for your purpose you might get a sympathetic hearing. Can't hurt to ask.....

Ok guys so a bit of an update.
1. I am a bit dissapointed with ET customer service. It takes them almost a week to reply to every email. Also they have ignored most of my questions like: Do all your T25L-R flashlights have this problem? Have you tested this led with this flashlight? Do you agree this is a fault? If It's not fit fo purpose do I return it to you or my dealer? If a new orange peel reflector doesn't solve the problem will you replace it for me maybe with a alternative emiter? And other. I was only getting one or two sentences saying that "a little yellow spot is normal" and that their "factory is working on the orange peel reflector which should solve the problem".

2. They never officialy admited it's a fault or that they accepted this as normal feature in $100 flashlight. But I got a message today saying that the orange peel reflector solves this issue and that it might take up to 3 weeks for me to get a new reflector from the factory.

So no "I'm sorry", no "thank you for bringing this up to our atention", no "don't worry well solve this so you are happy with your purchase" nothing like that. Just "yeah, well send you a part that might work for you"...

4/10 EagleTac and I don't think I will buy their product again, regardless of how good it looks on the website.

I emailed them at the start of the week requesting a replacement switch for one that's malfunctioning. No response yet...

is the led perfectly centered in the reflector? sometimes a off center led can give some strange artifacts. Aldo you can try fine tuning the depth of how far the led is sticking into the reflector, that also can give some strange strange beams.

Be patient. Don't attack them with questions. They said they sent you a new orange peel reflector, right? Wait until you get it, see if it alleviates the issue, then report back your results to EagleTac. Why would they bother to answer questions like what happens if the orange peel reflector doesn't work if the new orange peel reflector ends up solving the issue?

I had issues with my mx25L4 the side button was loose. They said they were going to replace, but then said they would send out a new, wider switch to see if it would accommodate. It took about 3 weeks to a month to get the part. When I got it, it fit perfect.

It was super slow and I was salty too but here I am 3 yrs later with the same light I'm happy with it.

I have found with Eagletac it is best to deal with the dealer first and let them deal with Eagletac. Nothing against Eagletac and I like their products but I have found that trying to deal directly with Chinese customer service is a slow, painful process.

Customer service can be difficult with many of the Chinese companies. They are setup to pump out product but not address customer problems once the product is in use. The top brands have figured out that customer service is important, and poor service can hurt sales. I had a problem with a Thrunite light last year. I emailed them, received a reply the next day and sent the light back to them shortly after. A week later I had a new TN12. That's how customer service is suppose to work.

Here's another solution -- buy your EagTacs from Tod at illuminationgear.com/

Good service, great communication, and he stands behind what he sells.