Lithium D-cell or alternative?

kilogulf59

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I recently had an incident where AAA cell Energizer alkaline batteries leaked ruining a good flashlight. I believe this was caused from the light being in a vehicle and our great temperature swings here in central WI. This was my first experience with modern alkaline leakage, by the way, and I'm 58-years old.

This problem has been solved, at least for some of my families lights, by ordering AA and AAA cell Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries. My son, however, also carries a D-cell Maglite in his truck, which presents me with my problem.

My question is does anyone make a lithium D-cell battery? If not, what's the alternative to prevent leakage in the future, AA to D cell converters? Ideas anyone?
 
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tokaji

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You can use AA to D cell adaptors.
I check my alkaline battery operated flashlights/other stuff once every month or so for signs of leakage. Usually, an alkaline battery will leak when it is close to empty, or when old and new cells are mixed.
 

kilogulf59

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Thanks for the input fellas.

For our/my use, I'm thinking, since D-cell lithiumbatteries aren't made, the AA to D adapters may be the best way togo. Those Maha Powerex batteries are great only expensive and I'dhave to get a good charger, which is also expensive.

FYI, the Maha Powerex SizeD MH-2D110 batteries, though a bit more money, have 11000 mAh. While I haven't tried them, I haven't heard anything about their being 1.2v instead of 1.5v. Perhaps this is insignificant from a practical standpoint?

For the amount ofactual use these lights get, buying rechargeable batteries and acharger would be a waste of money I feel. I have both AA & AAAEneloops but only put them in items that are used a lot such as mouse& keyboard, remotes, our spotlight (AA to C cell adapters),clocks, et cetera. Our flashlights and headlamp rarely get used, theyjust sit. The non-rechargeable batteries last for many, many years inthem.

From what I've learned from the folks on this forum andby my own experience is if they get used a lot; NiMH, if they justsit; alkaline, and if they sit outside; lithium.

Does anyone know why C &D cell lithium batteries aren't produced?
 
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tokaji

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I think C&D cell litium batteries are not produced, because of the characteristics of the lithium cell, i.e. unless alkaline battery, lithium battery can maintain its high capacity even at high current draw, and it can tolerate relative high current draw despite its size (small internal resistance). To draw higher current from a standard alkaline battery, its size must be increased (to decrease internal resistance). The biggest problem would be price. A lithium D cell would cost a lot more, imho.

Some electronics/flashlights are not recommended to put lithium cells in them, because they were designed for the higher internal resistance and the lower voltage of the alkaline cell (alkaline cell open circuit voltage is around 1.6V, lithium AA cell is about 1.8V when new, but can maintain its voltage better under load), i.e. the lithium cell can shorten their lifetime.

Alkaline cell is rated to -18 celsius (-0.4F), but with a much lower capacity.

Does anyone know why C &D cell lithium batteries aren't produced?
 

Timothybil

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From what I've learned from the folks on this forum andby my own experience is if they get used a lot; NiMH, if they justsit; alkaline, and if they sit outside; lithium.

Does anyone know why C &D cell lithium batteries aren't produced?
First off, alkaleaks NEVER. Lithium primaries or NiMH only.

As far as why the larger cells aren't produced, one major reason - demand! You have to remember that we flashaholics are a small subset of flashlight users, the majority of which see nothing wrong with using alkaline, or god forbid zinc oxide, cells in their dollar store lights. And among us flashaholics, we are much more likely to be using 18650 or larger cells rather than lithium primary C and D cells. So there just isn't the demand out there for suppliers to respond to. IIRC, one of us got a hold of a real lithium primary C or D cell and opened it up to find several AA/AAA cells inside. This is probably our equivalent of an urban myth, but whatever.

TL;DR There just isn't the demand to make it worth while for a supplier to make any.
 

SilverFox

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Hello Tokaji and Kilogulf59,

Keep in mind that Alkaline cells are rated at their starting voltage of 1.5 volts where NiMh cells are rated at their nominal voltage under load of 1.2 volts. If you compare discharge graphs of an Alkaline AA cell and an NiMh AA cell the difference is easy to see.

The bottom line is that you may see increased brightness from using Alkaline cells at the moment you turn the light on, but NiMh cells will outperform at any point after that because they hold a higher voltage under load.

Tom
 

tokaji

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You are right, Silverfox. The NiMh cell has "flatter" discharge curve on a fixed load at fixed temperature.

Using it in certain flashlights is a different story. My Magmini 2AAA runs longer on alkalines without significant difference in brightness: http://www.led-resource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/MM2AAA_Runtime.png


Hello Tokaji and Kilogulf59,

Keep in mind that Alkaline cells are rated at their starting voltage of 1.5 volts where NiMh cells are rated at their nominal voltage under load of 1.2 volts. If you compare discharge graphs of an Alkaline AA cell and an NiMh AA cell the difference is easy to see.

The bottom line is that you may see increased brightness from using Alkaline cells at the moment you turn the light on, but NiMh cells will outperform at any point after that because they hold a higher voltage under load.

Tom
 

fivemega

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My question is does anyone make alithium D-cell battery? If not, what's the alternative to preventleakage in the future, AA to D cell converters? Ideas anyone?

Battery holders like these are relatively cheap and you can use any AA size batteries even alkaline. Just wrap each loaded battery holder around batteries with plastic wrap but not terminals then insert inside flashlight. Even if they leak, will mess cheap holder and not the flashlight.
However, possible to use Lithium primary AAs but make sure slightly overvoltage can be tolerated by flashlight bulb.
 

fivemega

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Nice rechargables, but keep in mind these are 1.2V NiMH cells. His Maglite will be dimmer with these.
Not really. In many applications (not all) NiMH batteries hold voltage higher than alkalines also can provide higher current which means brighter. No need to mention in long term cost is much lower.
 

broadgage

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Lithium D cells do exist but they are very expensive and of a much higher voltage than alkaline cells.

Saft make them, 3.7 volts and about 15 AH. Two of these in a 2D flashlight with a multi voltage LED bulb are worth considering. Be certain to get the "high rate discharge" version, which is still limited to a lot less than one amp.

Energiser L91 lithiums in adaptors are probably a better option.
 

SilverFox

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Hello Tokaji,

While the Alkaline cells ran your light longer, it appears that the NiMh cells provided higher brightness after about 30 minutes.

It is all about trade offs. If I were running a Magmini 2AAA I would use NiMh and recharge after about 1 hour of use. After around 5 charge/discharge cycles the battery cost for NiMh would be zero.

Tom
 

tokaji

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Hi SilverFox,

Yes, it runs brighter with a few percent, it is insignificant and not noticeable to the human eye, but the extra hour runtime is noticeable. NiMh isn't practical in my application of this light (industrial maintenance).

At home, we run two Fenix LD22 for a few years exclusively on eneloops. Altogether, five pairs of eneloops are used (keyboards, mice, etc), one pair is always kept charged. It is really cost effective.
 

Gauss163

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Nice rechargables, but keep in mind these are 1.2V NiMH cells. His Maglite will be dimmer with these.

An alternative is 1.5V Li-ion based cells which step-down the voltage using internal circuitry, and include a usb recharging jack. Some of the AA/AAA versions have received good reviews, but I don't recall seeing any reviews for size C or D. Common brands are Znter, Kentli, Jugee, etc.
 

xxo

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I keep Energizer lithium AA L91's in my D cell Mag in my vehicle (using adapters) - Energizer Lithiums or CR123's are the way to go for anything kept long term in a vehicle or outside a climate controlled area. I use Eneloops for most other applications. I use Alkalines only for infrequent power outages, camping trips and for cheap stuff that I wouldn't mind that much if it got destroyed be leaking alkalines. I wish the battery alkaline manufactures would drop alkalines altogether and switch everything over to either quality NimH's (like Eneloops) or Lithium primaries (like Energizer ultimate lithiums).
 

Timothybil

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I think cost is the big factor in not dropping alkalines. The chemistries for lithium primaries use some materials that are somewhat more expensive than the alkaline raw materials. And if they did drop alkalines, I believe there would be some severe shortages of some of those components due to the volume needed to replace the large alkaline market. I would rather they spend more time working on keeping them from leaking.
 
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