Found an old friend - SureFire C2-HA ....

New guy here from the wet side of WA. Picked up a greenish OD C2 Centurion back in the day. After searching around the web for upgrade ideas and being overwhelmed I figure I better just plug myself in here and start drinking from the fire hose. I found a TON of drop ins but I don't even know what I'm looking for yet. I ended up picking up a Solarforce L2T last night to beat on. Figured I should leave the C2 in the condition it's in. I've used it a little but hardly at all....

Thanks for all the info,
dl

Re: Found an old friend

Hello and welcome to CPF

Your post above has been approved, in lightly edited form

Please note that "price fishing" (requests for appraisals) is discouraged in the discussion forums here.

Thanks

dimly lit said:

.... Picked up a greenish OD C2 Centurion back in the day....

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Oh, and the thread title was made just a bit more specific ... to help with searches and such

Thanks archimedes, sorry for the fishing. Just curious if I can justify keeping it/upgrading it.

dimly lit said:

Thanks archimedes, sorry for the fishing. Just curious if I can justify keeping it/upgrading it.

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Understood, and you are welcome.

The C2 / C3 (in HA) is among my very favorite vintage torches ... and still highly upgradeable.

You may want to start browsing some of the Malkoff dropin threads here

You must keep it and get a nice p60 for it..........MUST!!! Awesome classic host, as with Archi, treat to a malkoff or go crazy with a triple or quad p60........crazy is fun:welcome:

219b 4000k h17f.....pic for inspiration

If you like(d) the output before, Malkoff has a drop in that will put out a very similar beam yet sip the batteries for hours and hours. It is called M61WLL. (warm/low/low).

An old favorite around here is the M61NL that still sips on batteries yet appears a lot brighter. About triple the output number of the original bulb with a neutral beam that looks a lot like fresh batteries were just installed.
About $45 and a lifetime warranty.

Welcome to the site.

Would be nice to see a photo, if you care to post one up ... that earlier vintage "greenish-bronze" HA finish is not seen much anymore

Although these have different tailcaps and bezels, they should be from a similar era ...

:wow:

dimly lit, keep your original dropins. And add to that if you like from a lot of choices, you can run your C2 as originally intended with 2 primaries and the original P60/P61, use a 16650 protected LiOn rechargable battery with a Lumensfactory HO-4 dropin or convert it with a LED dropin (I first wanted to use the term upgrade as this is an often used term - but not from an incan lover...). If LED, I also highly recommend Malkoff Devices single output mode dropins in neutral or warm tint, and keep the original tailcap as is ...

Thanks all, I do like the idea of longer battery life. Sounds like I need to look into the Malkoff drop in offerings. Looks like they are all about a $52 shipped affair. Is there anything in the cheaper that is will compete?

I'm also looking into rechargeable 16340 batteries. Are they really that dangerous if you stick with quality cells/charger? They just seem like the right way to go.

I'll try to get creative with a pic if I can figure out the posting procedure.

Lumens factory makes a real nice drop in. Also check out Mountain Electronics.

The Malkoff are made to take abuse. Very durable.

Now buying quality cells makes the difference. Names like biggfire, megafire and such (made those up) should be avoided. Seller matters too due to some fakes showing up. Over in the far east trade secrets are about as secret as politicians are honest. So good products get cloned very often.
Again Mountain is a good pick. Many good sellers are out there. Just avoid the eBay sellers who have "genuine" for 1/2 price.

I mentioned Malkoff because they aren't going for max output like 600+ lumens. Just rock solid performers that'll get you lots of light. Newer stuff is going for the crowd who require bright, brighter, brightest stuff. All good there, but heat becomes part of the package and can lead to the need for ways to cool down your light. Anything 500 or less should be fine. But when you cross the 750 line things get pretty warm.

(Trying not to throw a lot of technical stuff like 3 letter acronyms at you until you get more familiar with things like XPG, XML, 219B and stuff like that)

Sanyo 16650 are what i use in most of my surefire lights(c2/6p/z2 etc). These offer 2500mah and good enough for around 5a(more than enough for a malkoff). There are cheaper, but the C2 deserves the best...........Buy once........set for life! . 16340 cells(presume running 2 in the C2) really dont offer much run time, also be aware of the total voltage 4.2v+4.2v=8.4v. So the p60 will need to be able to support that voltage over the usual CR123 cells(3v+3v=6v). Could fry the driver otherwise. Still most 16340 cells are 550-700mah tops.......does not take long to get that voltage down!

Here's a couple pics

Very nice! yes only a malkoff is good enough IMHO....................

From the info I've been able to find, I think the M61 is the Malkoff that I need? Looking for a good amount of flood as well as brightness in the center (spot). Does that sound like the right direction?

Nice example. My favorite of the P60 platform incan Surefires...

dimly lit said:

From the info I've been able to find, I think the M61 is the Malkoff that I need? Looking for a good amount of flood as well as brightness in the center (spot). Does that sound like the right direction?

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The M61 variants (without "T") are neither throwers nor floody lights. Imho this reflector is the best reflector (in its size peer group) for general usage and the best compromise between spot and flood/spill) I have seen.


Here's my thinking about the M61: The M61 has around 325 measured out the front lumens, the M61N around 300. Your eyes will hardly see a difference in light output.


However, the 6200 Kelvin of the M61 is quite cool, whereas the M61N has 4000K and a better CRI. Although I do not have the M61 my educated guess from other cool lights is that the colors will be washed out and contrast will suffer when compared to the M61N.

Hence, if you want to actually recognize things in the dark my recommendation is to go with the M61N. If your primary use is to (temporarily) blind opponents, you can live with the M61.

Maybe you can see the better color rendition and contrast when comparing the M61 (cool) and M361N (neutral) here:
http://flashlightguide.com/2013/11/review-malkoff-md2-flashlight/

but note, the M361N seems to be a little throwier here because it puts out more lumens (375). (And draws considerable more power from the battery - 1.4 amps instead of 0.65 amps.


This is about usefulness, not tint preferences or dislikings. Some folks just hate cool, neutral or warm tints.



If runtime is more of a concern than lumens output the "L" variants might be a good choice too for the C2 (compensating for the smaller capacity in the C2 (compared to a MD2) if using rechargable battery and the lack of a low setting).
Btw, the term "L" for "Low" is a bit misleading, 160 Malkoff lumens (M61NL) is rather a good medium.
Runtime does not make a difference if using primaries in either C2 or MD2 of course.


All depends on your usage and preferences. Btw. can you tell us more about this?



P.S. 2x primaries or a 16650 protected LiOn rechargable battery are the best options for your C2

dimly lit said:

I'm also looking into rechargeable 16340 batteries. Are they really that dangerous if you stick with quality cells/charger? They just seem like the right way to go.

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For a Malkoff M61 dropin or one of its variants I see no point in using low capacity 16340 rechargables, you are better off with one 16650 *).
As far as harzard is concerned, they are equally potentially dangerous, that is because of their chemistry. However, if you follow some rules you should be good.
Particularly,
- use quality cells, no cheapos
- use a quality charger
- use "protected" cells (but they are thicker and longer due to their additional protection circuits)
- don't use any damaged cells
- if using multiple cells in a serial setup (e.g. 2 x 16340), use cells from the same production batch. Use and load them always together - as a pair for life.
- do not leave them unattended when loading
- load them in an non-burning environment (I usually load them in my bathroom, non-flammable materials, somehow unattended while I am in another room but they won't set the house on fire when catching fire or exploding)
- load them in a vented environment (you do not want to breathe in the gases should they explode)
- don't overcharge them (should normally be prevented by the protection circuit as well as the charger, if using the right voltage and amperage)
- optionally, use a "Fireproof Explosion-proof Lipo Guard / Charge Protection Bag". I have one and sometimes use it.
- don't overdischarge them (should normally be prevented by the protection circuit)
- don't overload them regarding max. current draw. Should not be a problem with M61s (and should normally be prevented by the protection circuit anyway).


In short, quality cells and charger with M61s and a bit of common sense and pre-caution then the danger is very very small.



*)
E.g. Keeppower 16650 2500 mAh (nominal), with a "normal" charger charging the battery to 4.2 Volt, it has a (real) capacity of 1,900+ mAh:

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Keeppower 16650 2500mAh (Black) 2015 UK.html

(although the navigation is a little confuding this is a great site btw., has also reviews of chargers)