It's not just the lumens, it's the lux that's important

etc

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
5,777
Location
Northern Virginia
My Malkoff M61T drop-in appears much more powerful than M61 that's floodier only because the former has over twice the lux of the latter.

On paper, there isn't a huge difference between these two lights. But because the M61xx series is a bit floody, it just doesn't appear to be as bright despite 320 lumens.

another excellent example of high lumens but low lux is Malkoff M91. It's over twice as bright as M61 but you don't see it as it's very floody. The lumens are not focused into a hotspot that's very hot but rather disseminated over an area. This may be what you want, say M61LL or LLL is great for reading a book.

Malkoff Hound Dog has very high lux. That's why the Hound Dog on *low* has higher lux than Malkoff M61 - the "high" full power module, not those reduced lumens "low-low" variants.

You can shine a M61 on the wall and then superimpose the HD on low and it walks all over it - while of course the total *lumens* of HD on low is less than that total lumens of M61.
Hound Dog throws better even on low. Hound Dog Super follows the same pattern. On low, it's pretty high lux.

Higher lux is like cheating, it makes a weaker light appear stronger.

I EDC'ed a SF G2x Pro for a while, it had a 15/320 mode and the 15 lumen mode was not a joke, it was actually adequate for most tasks, being so high luxed and focused. Had no issues with it even outside.

so it's critical to understand the relationship between brute force lumens and lux.
 

iamlucky13

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
1,139
True, although which is more important depends on how the light is used.

My D4 has both higher lumens and lux than my Thrunite Archer, but I prefer to use the Archer for it's tighter beam when seeing across my big yard, both because it's a more efficient way to see long distance, and because it has less foreground illumination. Yet at shorter distances or indoors, I like the D4, even if I'm only using it at its minimum mode, because the more diffuse beam covers a larger area. Across a room, the hotspot on my Archer is only about 2' in across - too small to see much.

I've started paying some attention to the candela* to lumens ratio to get an idea what the best use is of a given light, if both figures are available. A higher ratio means a tighter, throwier beam. A lower ratio is a floodier beam.

On the D4 with the Nichia emitter option it should be 3.3 Cd/lumen.

On my Archer (v2 with XP-G2), it's about 15 Cd/lm. Not accounting for the possibility of a dazzling foreground with the D4, I can see the same distance with 1/5 the power using my Archer.

And on a big dedicated thrower like the Thrunite TN42, the ratio is a massive 300 Cd/lm (and something like 500 Cd/lm on the BLF GT).


* 1 candela = 1 lux at 1 meter distance.
 

maukka

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
641
Location
Finland
This is exactly why focusable flashlights are essential. They offer the best of both worlds.
 

richbuff

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
2,264
Location
Prescott Az
Also,

That is why knowledge about beam profile is important when choosing a flashlight.

Additionally, that is why I have 18 real flashlights, instead of far fewer. I want pure flood, small, medium and large power/size; hybrid some throw and some flood small, medium and large power/size; and mostly throw, small medium and large power/size. I have not been dissatisfied with or sold or given away any of the lights that I have purchased, because I know what I want in the beam profile department from a light of given size, and I select accordingly. Also, I anticipate performance technology advances and gladly grab them when further advanced products appear.
 

etc

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
5,777
Location
Northern Virginia
This is exactly why focusable flashlights are essential. They offer the best of both worlds.

Theoretically.

In reality they introduce moving parts, rings, more likely to leak, the white-wall picture is off.. maybe there is a well made focusing light but I've never seen one.

Hint: It's not the Maglite.

In reality you have the reflectored design like the older Hound Dogs and the lense design like the latest-greatest Hound Dog Super or the M61T series. It's either floor or throw.

I kind of prefer the later.
 

etc

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
5,777
Location
Northern Virginia
I really like the beam profile of Malkoff M61LLL 219 - for reading and stuff and navigating room to room.

It's a bit weak for outdoor stuff, unless in the 3x123 configuration or maybe 2x18650. Yeah, it *can* work outdoors but hardly the optimum. You can do much better. Even M61 is much better.

Of all the Malkoffs, M61LLL-219B is the light I use most often. The combination of useful flood and long runtime.

OTOH, you really don't want to read using Hound Dog Super. that thing will drill a hole in whatever it is you are reading. Even on low.
 

Poppy

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
8,359
Location
Northern New Jersey
Our friend TEEJ from New Jersey has a great thread describing lux and lumens

etc I agree with you that it is important to understand the whole lux and lumens concept and how they work together to make the light that one is looking for, for his particular application.

Like richbluff, I have flooders, and throwers, and mid-range stuff.

I find that I use the mid-range stuff more than any other.
I have a number of convoy S2+ lights, and I like them a bit more with the XML2 than with the XPL. I like the slightly broader hot spot of the XML2.

Throwers are cool, but some throw farther, than I can accurately see. Flooders, are great at times but if you need light to go a bit of a distance, they run through batteries pretty quickly, because you'll need to really crank up the lumens.
 

iamlucky13

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
1,139
In reality they introduce moving parts, rings, more likely to leak, the white-wall picture is off.. maybe there is a well made focusing light but I've never seen one.

Hint: It's not the Maglite.

I'm a bit curious to try Fenix's hybrid FD30 or FD41 focusing lights. I don't know how rugged they are, but the beamshots I've seen don't look bad - the color fringing at the beam periphery doesn't seem much worse than the usual Cree rainbow:

FD41 Defocused
FD41 Focused
 

etc

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
5,777
Location
Northern Virginia
I'm a bit curious to try Fenix's hybrid FD30 or FD41 focusing lights. I don't know how rugged they are, but the beamshots I've seen don't look bad - the color fringing at the beam periphery doesn't seem much worse than the usual Cree rainbow:

FD41 Defocused
FD41 Focused

Hm, interesting.

would be helpful to see this against a white-wall.

the defocused one is hard to tell as it's not hitting anything.
 

iamlucky13

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
1,139
I agree. Whoever started that collection of headshots chose a place with a good mix of near and far to compare, with objects to illuminate, but also some featureless areas to see the beam.

Most importantly, the pictures give consistent comparisons.

It's a worthwhile thread to bookmark.
 

Unicorn

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 19, 2000
Messages
1,339
Location
Near Seattle, WA
I've always said that just having one number is meaningless. Years ago it was all about the "candlepower," while Surefire was fighting to get people to use lumens. "It could be honestly said that a laser is 1,000,000 candlepower, but how usable is that?" But then, now usable is 600 lumens if it's in a ball of light and you can't see more than a few yards away? Area light great, lighting up a path while running, or checking out the doors on the warehouse you're a guard at, not so much.
Having both lumens and lux is great since that lets you know both the total amount of light, and how well it's focused so you can make a better decision on that light based on your need or desire. Flood or spot? If it just says 1,000 lumens you just don't know. The ANSI ratings do help with that at least.
 
Top