Updating Classic Incans to LED

xxo

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Many people have an old incandescent light or two kicking around that may have some sentimental value or at least is too nice to throw away, even if they don't have much value as a collector's item, but doesn't get much use because LEDs have passed the old incan technology by. In most cases, these old lights can be brought back into useful service with low cost LED drop-ins that are easy to install as changing the bulb. Here are mine:


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When I passed my trusty now nearly 35 year old 4D Maglite into semi retirement some years ago (after more than 20 years of faithful service), I wanted to keep it ready for use casual use, but I didn't want to put too much money into it (considering it was likely to be used infrequently), I didn't want to permanently alter any of it's parts and I didn't want alkalines leaking in it. At the time, (7-8 years ago) I went with a typical inexpensive 40 lumen LED drop-in from Rayovac and some simple AA to D adapter shells from Eneloop (so that I could use Eneloops in it). The LED was OK, though never as bright as I would have liked for a big 4D Mag and the old Eneloop shells needed a coin to make contact with the base of the AA Eneloop cell to the Mag's tail spring. Now there are better options. Currently I have a 55 lumen Nite Ize LED drop in in this light that is not only brighter than the old Rayovac drop in but has a better, more neutral tint. I am probably going to upgrade again to the newer 74 lumen Nite Ize drop in which should give about the same brightness as the old Mag 4 cell krypton bulb with much better run time. One thing I really like about these Nite Ize drop-ins is that they work in 2 to 6 cell lights so you don't have to worry about Voltage too much and can use the same drop-in in a bunch of different lights.

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Eneloop has since improved their AA to D adapters by adding a twist on base so you no longer need a coin to make contact with the tail spring. I also use 3 AA to D parallel adapters, which are nice since you can triple the run time you get with AA's, or if you don't have enough AA's on hand to put 3 in each adapter, you can run them with 1 or 2 cells. These are sold for cheap by venders in China, just be careful to order the parallel adapters, not the series which will triple the Voltage!

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I gave basically the same treatment to my old 2D Mag, which is pushing 20 years old but has seen little use simply because even in the incan days the 19 lumens of Mag's 2 cell krypton bulb just didn't cut it. With the Nite Ize drop-in running on Eneloops in adapters, this makes a great utility light for around the house with no problems with leaking alkalines.


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A couple other classic lights that I have upgraded recently:


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Fulton MX-991/U "Moonbeam"- this is the Vietnam era/current version of the old crook neck/angle head flashlights of WW2. A lot people have one of these from their time in the military, if not they are still being made by Fulton and new production and military surplus can be found at army navy stores, as well as gun shows, yard sales and the like as well as Ebay.

Mine is not that old as evidenced by the switch guard that was added to the design around the mid 80's.

The old moonbeam is fairly durable and dependable light, but brightness was never it's forte (hence the moonbeam nickname?). With the 55 lumen Nite Ize drop-in it real shines (literally!), making it a nice general purpose light for around the house or for camping trips. In the Fulton the Nite Ize drop-in beam beam is more floody than in a focused Maglite and is likely to have some artifacts – white wall hunters need not apply!

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If on the other hand, you are an actual hunter and want to use the MX-991/U for tracking blood trails with the aid of the blue lens that stores in the little compartment in the base - hang on to the the old incan bulb tucked under the tail cap spring (or better yet switch it out for a brighter 2 cell Maglite krypton or xenon PR base bulb – it has to be a PR bulb, newer bi pin Mag bulbs don't fit in the Fulton). Typical white LEDs filtered through a blue lens won't make blood stand out like an incandescent bulb does. A blue filtered ican bulb makes bright red almost glow while a blue filtered LED makes it look black. In fact I am thinking of setting up a moonbeam specifically for this purpose with a couple of 3 AA to D series adapters (which would raise the Voltage to about 9 Volts) and a 5 or 6 cell Maglite PR bulb. Even at 9 Volts, this set up could still be used with the Nite Ize 2-6 cell drop-in.

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If you are looking to pick up a MX-991/U, I would recommend a USA made model over any of the Chinese knockoffs such as Rothco or no-name copies marked TL-122, which are not near as well made as the genuine USA milspec models. U.S. Military contract MX-991/U's were made by G.T Price, USAlite, Bright Star and possibly others?, but Fulton was by far the most common and is the current supplier to the armed forces.


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Eveready No. 108 Floating Lantern, AKA the Dolphin Mark 1 – these came out in the mid to late 60's and were tremendously popular in the pre-Maglite era with people wanting a dependable flashlight. A bunch of them were sold in the USA, and thanks to their quality construction many have survived and can often can be found for cheap at yard sales or thrift shops (where I got this one) if you don't have one already. In Australia this light is legendary as the first in a long line 6 Volt Dolphin lanterns that remain greatly successful on the Australian and New Zealand markets.

I wanted to try the Nite Ize drop in in the Mark 1, but it didn't fit the Eveready's socket very well and I couldn't get it to light up, I didn't fiddle with it because I had already found the Nite Ize drop in to give a unfocused beam in my Rayovac lantern so I went with the old 40 lumen drop-in I took out of my 4D Mag instead. In case you are wondering, both the Nite Ize and Rayovac drop in's will work with both center positive (most flashlights) or center negative (most 6V lanterns) configurations. Not all drop-ins will, so you need to check this when selecting a drop-in for lanterns or to get a drop-in that is center negative intended specifically for lanterns. Again 40 lumens is not quite as bright as I would want for a light this size, but it will do for the time being. On the plus side the hot spot is tightly focused for a good amount of throw, with a wide spill bean bright enough to keep from walking into things and runtime with a 6 Volt lantern battery is near forever (Rayovac lists the runtime as 120 hrs with "general purpose" battery, an alkaline battery would likely at least double this).

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For those who would rather not bother with 6 Volt lantern batteries, there are adapters what allow the use of 4 D cell batteries, these are made by Rayovac (until recently?) and Dorcy (currently) and military surplus versions are also sold on ebay. While good deals on 6 V super/heavy duty lantern batteries can be had and they have good capacity with 4 F cells inside, alkaline versions often have smaller D cells inside and usually cost more than 4 D cells. Of course, once you have a 4D to 6V adapter, you can also use AA adapters to run Eneloops or Energzier L91 lithiums (great for lights stored in vehicles and for extended storage).


If you have one of these classics yourself or maybe a friend or family member does, it might make some sense to bring it back into service!
 

bykfixer

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Nice thread xxo.

The vp of sales at Fulton hooked me up with an upgrade kit for the 991 (after I paid the $18 lol) where there is a pair of flimsy D to A adapters and a really nice LED drop in like the Nite Ize PR bulb type, but a pretty sweet, nearly neutral beam. He said it was requested by the Marines for weight savings and comes with the "Marines" version of their lights currently.

I sent Fulton an email requesting a lens kit for my TL122's (that are pretty close to those 991's). He responded.

I use those Nite Ize in older yellow plastic lights like Dorcey or Rayovac Industrials. The beam already sucked so no big deal.

Now my favorite is some Maglite modules from early Maglite LED days in incan Maglites. Don Keller had some left over from his second stint at Maglite so I bought a couple. Again, ugly ugly ugly versus modern stuff but it kinda goes with the vintage of a couple of my early 00's Maglites.

IMG_20171126_145252.jpg


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A prototype by Don Keller
This PR type LED never went into production. It's too bad because that hour glass lens thingy really helped it look like an incan beam.

Now a 5mm Yuji in a minimag makes the minimag bulb look pretty bright in comparison, but when the lights are out for days and days, they'll provide enough light to read or play board games etc. I stopped running one at 57 hours to preserve the remaining fuel in the batteries for when I do need it.

IMG_20180309_173216.jpg

I used Nite Ize/Terra Lux reflectors versus drilling.

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A Yuji in a 3volt P60 module.
Scout24 showed me this trick where you remove the P60 bulb and insert the Yuji, bending the pins to match what was configured by the P60 bulb.
Yup, the P60 is a bi-pin that's epoxy'd to the reflector dish.



Right now I'm away from home, but this weekend I'll post some pix of a couple of big lights fed by Nite Ize and eneloops.
 
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LiftdT4R

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Very nice!! I love the 4D Mags. I upgraded an old one myself recently with a Malkoff. I have a couple pics below but I use it all the time when spotting stuff around the yard or when I'm out camping. These lights are sooo well built and have such a good feel it would be a shame not to use them. Thanks for keeping yours going too.

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I really like the Tenergy Centuras if you're looking for a good rechargeable cell. They are Low Self Discharge so even if you don;t use them for a couple years they'll hold a really good charge and they won;t ever leak like Alkalines.
 

ZMZ67

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Great post! I have been a little obsessed with LED drop-ins for a while now finally finding dual-polarity E10 screw base drop-ins for some of my older lanterns that wouldn't accept a PR base. I am still inclined to believe that decent incan lights with LED drop-ins will prove more reliable than the typical low cost LED lights.Many of the incan lights don't have fragile solder points to fail and they are more user serviceable than purpose built LED lights if you do encounter an issue.Avoiding battery leaks is the biggest key and lithium/eneloop AAs in battery adapters will take care of that.

Certainly classic incans have their limitations with somewhat limited output from simple drop-ins but 20-60 lumens is still very useful especially during a power outage.Your never going to get the nice beam of a Malkoff M61 but the beam isn't always bad and is often better than what you would get with the original bulb. We revisit the "lights for elderly family members" subject from time to time here on CPF and these classics can really fit the bill. A simple slide switch 2C or 2D with AA adapters, lithium AA batteries and a Dorcy/Rayovac 10MM drop-in will provide a simple reliable light with decent run-time without the weight of the old alkaleak C and D batteries.

My personal favorites are the 6V lantern style flashlights. Even though the 6V alkaline/carbon zinc batteries still leak it seems to be less damaging IME since the leaking from the sub-cells is somewhat contained by the batteries outer shell.Also the contact points are at one end in lights like the Eveready All American/Dolphin and it can be placed bezel up so gravity can help keep any leaks away from the vital components of the light. The 6V batteries are convenient since they don't require any adapters and they offer good capacity.
 
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xxo

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Bykfixer,

I saw those Fulton kits, I wonder what LED drop-in that they use? The LED modules looked different in different pic I saw, some with a large dome and the others with a small chip mounted on top.


Those Mag LEDs look nice, they don't seem to have lasted very long on the market. I wonder what Mag could come up with now, 12 or so years later.


LifdT4R,

Thank you as well, a Malkoff'd Mag running on Centuras is sweet.

I like the old Mags from the 80's they are built even heavier than the newer mags with a bigger diameter barrel, nice and sturdy but heavy (I can't believe I used to carry the 4D on my belt!).

ZMZ67,

I can see LED drop-ins might be a good addition to an old light that uses hard to find bulbs, heck even the old PR base Maglite bulbs seem to be drying up and it's only been a few years since Mag switched to the bi-pins (which won't focus in my old 4D Mag, because it's socket is no quite deep enough for the bi-pin holder).
 

ZMZ67

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xxo

The LED drop-ins offer better performance in output and of course run-time. Even though incan has some advantages the inefficiency has essentially taken it out of my "user arsenal". Most PR bulb lights have pretty ugly beams anyway and it seems like I really needed to "overdrive" them for the best results. With LEE filters I can modify the tint to my liking and as you pointed out before aged lenses on older lights tend to "warm" the output anyway.

I was really disappointed to see Mag go to the bi-pin bulbs in the C and D lights. The PR bulb Mags are some of the best LED drop-in hosts out there with the focusing feature built into the light and overall great design. The only bi-pin bulb Mags I have tried are the 2C ML25IT and I was unimpressed. Dorcy still offers cheap krypton bulbs on their site but I don't know of anything like the Magnum Star Xenons from Mag.

bykfixer

Have you tried the Yuji (or anything else LED) in the Rayovac 2AA Industrial Incan? The Eveready 2AA Industrial model was a gem since it used PR based bulbs but it was changed to LED only and is discontinued now I believe. The Rayovac is a nice light with the relatively large faceted reflector but the bi-pin design prevents the use of regular PR base drop-ins.I don't have any Yujis to try myself but I was just curious.
 
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xxo

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ZMZ67,

Why Mag switched to the bi-pin bulbs is a mystery to me as well. The bi-pins have some advantages of being brighter and sometimes give a better focused hot spot with less of a comet tail than the old krypton bulbs, but it sucks that they use a new collar to keep bi pin holder in place that interferes with most drop-ins (though the Nite Ize I posted about will fit the bi-pin collar) and a bi-pin holder won't fit in the tail cap if you want to have the ability to conveniently switch back to incan from an LED drop-in. I also find the bi pins to be a bit fiddly, sometimes getting bent so that they no longer centered, easy to bend back but annoying when it happens. I also wonder if the bi-pin bulbs might work loose after getting knocked around being held in only by friction?....probably would never happen considering how light these bulbs are but they don't have the established track record that the PR bulbs have. And of course as I have found, the bi-pins may not work in a old light from the 80's.




I'm guessing Mag might have been having a hard time sourcing the PR bulbs for some reason. Or maybe the bi-pins cost less - I would think the bulbs themselves might, but it had to be expensive to come out with a new proprietary bulb holder at a time when incan sales were being over taken by LEDs.
 

bykfixer

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The bi-pin bulb has a proven track record going back to the 1980's with the minimag, and Streamlight used them in their TL and Nite Fighters... even the shockproof models. Oh, and early Strions used them. Those famous P60's and other modules by Pelican, Pentagon, SureFire and Streamlight all use bi-pin bulbs but they are glued in. Matter of fact, the lowley PR bulb is a bi-pin at heart. If you tug it from the base you'll see it too was a glued bi-pin.

Now Maglite probably saw the virtues of bi-pin gizmos as a way of providing a tried n true, low cost bulb replacement to appeal to the classic Maglite crowd while using classic xenon brightness.
They outsourced their PR bulbs at one point, but it is my understanding that bi-pin bulbs were made in house. Tony Maglica was quoted as stating he shut down the bulb lab in 2016 due to regulations frowning on light bulbs (paraphrasing here).

Now regarding LED drop in's, yes Nite Ize fit lights that came with either PR bulbs or bi-pin (with its slightly narrower open'd collar). TerraLux does not. It only fits the PR sized hole. But a minute with a steak knife can open the bi-pin collar wide enough to use the TerraLux. Trouble is after that going back to bi-pin does not work because the collar will no longer hold the bi-pin adapter.
I went to zbattery and bought some PR sized collars so as not to permanently re-size bi-pin collars then later decided the $8 Nite Ize was money better spent than the $17 Terra Lux.

Regarding storing spares in the tailcap, you can store just the bi-pin in the sponge by slicing the sponge and inserting the bulb.


So here are my LED'd classics:
IMG_20180526_090402.jpg

L to R; 1917 Franco 2c, 1950's HIPCO 2c, 1970's Eveready 2D Comander, 2000's Maglite 2D (incan), 1990's Dorcey 2D Industrial, 1970's BMG Cub Scout 2c, 1990's Rayovac 2D Industrial, 1970's Kel-Lite 2c, 1940's 2D TL 122B (reporoduction).
 

xxo

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Very nice collection Bykfixer!

I really like the look of that 2CKelite.


You are right about the bi-pins in other lights, the thing that got me to think about the bulbs maybe working loose was my mini Mag with a Nite Ize LED in it - it works loose enough to flicker all the time when using the clicky tail switch, but it weighs much more than the original bi-pin incan bulb due to the LED module. When used as a twisty this doesn't happen because the LED gets pushed back into place each time the light is turned off.

I remember the story about Tony's lab coming up with a new break through in incan bulbs and being shut down by EPA regulations.

I still think it is a little strange to switch over to bi-pins with all of the expense of coming up with the bi-pin holder so late in the incan flashlight game – seems more like something they should have done when they came out with the redesigned D prefix lights in the early 90's when they could have eliminated the need for a bulb holder and built the new lights from the ground up as bi-pin lights since most of the parts were getting changed anyway.

Nite Ize did good to design there drop-ins to fit either bulb collar, and at $5 (Home Depot) you can't beat them for price on the 55 lumen variety. Another thing that is real nice about the the Nite Ize drop ins is that they work with anything from 2 to 6 cell lights - pretty much eliminates having to buy specific LEDs for different PR bulbed lights!
 

bykfixer

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I did not know more than 2 cells was ok with the Nite Ize. Cool. I'll try one in this....
IMG_20180526_132603.jpg
1960's 3D Dog Supply House with 3 cell DSH extension.
It is non functioning now due to corrosion all over the insides, but when I restore it, a Nite Ize and 6 Rayovac D cells may provide enough run time to last until.... well a long, long time.

Now why Maglite did those bi-pin with adapters when they did?
No telling. Perhaps they were like me in 2010... still thought LED was a fad. lol.
 
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xxo

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Another Nice looking light!

I don't know about older Nite Ize Drop-ins, but the current 55 lumen and 74 are definitely made for 2-6 cells as stated on the packaging.
 

flatline

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Another Nice looking light!

I don't know about older Nite Ize Drop-ins, but the current 55 lumen and 74 are definitely made for 2-6 cells as stated on the packaging.

I seem to remember that 10+ years ago, there were 2-3 cell and 4-6 cell Nite Ize dropins. Having a single dropin that handles 2-6 cells is convenient, but I have to wonder if we're giving up efficiency somewhere.

I've got the 55L Nite Ize dropin in my old 4D mag and it focuses like a spot light. Very impressive results.

I will be sad when I can no longer purchase cheap lights that use PR-style bulbs.

--flatline
 

bykfixer

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At zmz post #7, I have a bi-pin Rayovac 2aa Industrial, but the Yuji would require me to drill a larger hole in the reflector. I prefer to do reversible mods. But yeah, it's a pretty sweet little yellow light. Nice n lightweight and made with real copper parts n pieces.

My local Batteries Plus had 2 dust covered ones. Regrettably I only bought one. The next day the 2nd one was gone.

Now Bright Star did a minimag clone that sucked in terms of output as it used an argon T10 bi-pin bulb instead of krypton or xenon. But the larger globe on the T10 made drilling unrequired. And with a 3200 Yuji it sure is sweet.

IMG_20180311_121724.jpg


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Left is the oem bulb.

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ZMZ67

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byk

Nice mod on the Bright Star! I will have to keep a look out to see if I can pick up a couple more of the Rayovacs somewhere. I only have one myself and like you I am not inclined to mod the reflector. A 3MM LED might fit but I am not aware of a source for a warm/neutral 3MM LED. There are some bi-pin drop ins for the AAA Mini Mag that might be worth a try as well. I do know the Rayovac is still available online at least and is listed on Rayovac's site so it hasn't been discontinued yet.
 

xxo

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I seem to remember that 10+ years ago, there were 2-3 cell and 4-6 cell Nite Ize dropins. Having a single dropin that handles 2-6 cells is convenient, but I have to wonder if we're giving up efficiency somewhere.

I've got the 55L Nite Ize dropin in my old 4D mag and it focuses like a spot light. Very impressive results.

I will be sad when I can no longer purchase cheap lights that use PR-style bulbs.

--flatline



Yeah the Nite Ize drop-ins focus real well, often better than the original bulbs.


BTW, I pulled the spare krypton bulb out of my 4D Mag just to compare, couldn't believe how bad the beam looked, far worse than I remembered when it hit me that I used Mag PR xenon bulbs back in the day and I dug one out of my stash of old bulbs - much, much better than the krypton bulb, not only brighter and whiter but able to be focused into a nice clean looking beam - Mag should have made these standard back then and maybe their wouldn't have been as may complaints about the crappy looking krypton beam.
 
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