Experiences with Starkpower and Bioenno

LEDAdd1ct

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I am looking at large LiFePO4 batteries for a dual-purpose lantern and USB charging solution.

Both these companies appear less than ten years old, so it is difficult to gauge reliability.

Amazon has reviews for Bioenno products which are overwhelmingly positive; I can't find as many reviews on Starkpower.

Both companies appear to have two year warranties (I would prefer to see five year warranties).

Bioenno appears to be viewed pretty favorably in the ham radio community; or perhaps more accurately, by some of its members.

I have had email correspondence with both companies over the last few years, and both are happy (as any company would be) to take my money.

I keep flipping back and forth between the two companies.

Thoughts?
Comments?

Any real world experience with either one of these?

The batteries aren't cheap and I want them to work when called upon.

I also want them to last more than two years when the warranty runs out.

There are literally dozens of Chinese made LiFePO4 cell companies out there; the fact both of these companies are U.S. based appeals; although I understand the cells are still manufactured in China.

A penny for...:thinking:
 

HarryN

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I am sort of neck deep into RV / conversion van solar and power upgrades so I will throw in my 2 cents.

- There is a BIG difference between a battery pack designed for mobile use vs stationary, and this is reflected in the price.
- For a lantern / USB charge, the discharge rates are largely not an issue for any of the modern setups. My applications are pulling in the multi kW range, so for that application, the stark discharge rates are too low, so it takes more batteries to keep up vs other brands.
- It is easy to underestimate the impact of temperature (both high and low) on the use of LiFe batteries. The long experience with Li primaries and AGMs dulls us to the realities of just how close to the temperature edge we run LiFe packs. Not so much from a safety viewpoint, but from a cycle life perspective. Just as a reminder, if the battery temperature drops below freezing, they auto shut off to self protect. In other words, if it is the slightest bit cold, you are just carrying a stone.

When we use LiFe batteries in projects, we add substantial protection (mechanical, electrical, thermal) over and above what is used on AGM batteries so that they stay within their preferred operating environment and are less likely to be damaged from impacts. If we used the batteries mentioned, we would still do the same thing.

By the time you add any kind of protection to a smallish (100 amp-hr or so @12 volt) battery, it isn't a lot better than a premium AGM until the pack hits 400 amp-hr , IMHO, but we do both types of projects.

As far as amazon reviews, small to mid size mfgs of items like batteries have a hard time selling on that site, and the cost is considerable for a $1K item.

Probably you could go either way and be fine for most applications. If you are going to do winter use, then neither is a good choice.

Ultra caps actually are the best for low temperature use, but a high end AGM is also very good.
 
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LEDAdd1ct

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Thank you very much for the reply!

The lead acid stuff (I think?) is still super heavy, and, it requires being left on a charger, correct?

I will let everybody know what I decide to do.

*thumbs up*
 

HarryN

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Roughly how much power are you looking for?

If you go down the path of lead - acid, it isn't light, but no it doesn't have to be always on a charger really any more than a LiFe. (Assuming that you go with a high quality AGM type)

Are you wanting something roughly suitecase size that has a 1 kW inverter, charger, solar connections, USB out, 12 volt out that can run the fridge during a black out?

Or more like the size of a hand held lantern with a USB port to charge up your phone?
 

LEDAdd1ct

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I'm looking for something with around 360 watt hours capacity.

I did some searching, and you are absolutely correct in that the pricing is much more favorable for the AGM battery.

I think it's a combination of the "cool factor" of LiFePO4 plus the lower weight. :)

I found a reseller of Bioenno batteries who will sell a battery box that the battery can be housed in with integral USB charging ports and 12V accessory outlets, and they have different models for both AGM and LiFePO4 cells. I've decided to go that route, once I have enough coins set aside. :thumbsup:
 
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HarryN

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Some of the decision is related to what you will be powering from the 12 volt outlets.

Many 12 volt "appliances" , example refrigerators, will not run unless the internal battery is 100% charged. If they discharge down to even 80%, the voltage drops too low for their low voltage detection circuit and they shut off.

There are a few out there that have "voltage regulated 12 volt outlets" that are actually a constant 13 volt output. Those are a lot better, otherwise you have to run the 12 volt appliances via an inverter - (120 vac) to 12 volt DC outlet. Sounds crazy, but true.
 

Gauss163

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[...] Many 12 volt "appliances" , example refrigerators, will not run unless the internal battery is 100% charged. If they discharge down to even 80%, the voltage drops too low for their low voltage detection circuit and they shut off.

That's a problem for some 3S Li-ion packs, but not for the 4S LiFePO4 discussed above, because their voltage range 14V-10V matches the SLA range well - see below

P1Z4m.png
 

HarryN

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That's a problem for some 3S Li-ion packs, but not for the 4S LiFePO4 discussed above, because their voltage range 14V-10V matches the SLA range well - see below

P1Z4m.png

Probably right.

Using the 2 C discharge curve, it looks like the voltage at the cell is around 3.2 volts.

3.2 x 4 = 12.8 volts. Some losses to the terminals, say 0.1 volts, another 0.2 volts going through the fuse + round trip through the wire = 12.5 volts. Just barely enough if you are running an inverter load + enough to keep some appliances running, but probably enough.

Too marginal for a commercial installer to take a chance but for a DIYer you can always try again if it fails.

Why take a chance when a 24 volt system ensures success?
 
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