Buy advice: Fujitsu HR-3UTC (2014) vs Eneloop BK-3MCCE (new)

Which one would you advise? Just go for the cheaper?


Fujitsu HR-3UTC from december 2014 for EUR 6,95 /4.

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Fujitsu AA HR-3UTC 1900mAh (White) UK.html

http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/fujitsu-white/

OR

New Eneloop BK-3MCCE for EUR 8,90 /4.

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3MCCE 1900mAh (White) UK.html

http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/panasonic-eneloop/



Fujitsu is cheaper but older. Too old?
Same chemistry or not? AAcharger test shows Eneloop has faster higher internal resistance, but comparing with only one tested Fujitsu battery?

I use both the Fujitsu and Eneloop and they are identical in performance and appearance. Even the date code embossing is in the same place and same depth.

Interestingly the Ikea Ladda 2450 appears to be the same battery also, I believe they are all made at the FDK factory in Japan. I only buy the Ikea ones now as they are cheaper for the same performance. I do find the older (4years +) Eneloops lose a little performance compared to newer Ikea Ladda.

Big_S said:

I use both the Fujitsu and Eneloop and they are identical in performance and appearance. Even the date code embossing is in the same place and same depth.

Interestingly the Ikea Ladda 2450 appears to be the same battery also, I believe they are all made at the FDK factory in Japan. I only buy the Ikea ones now as they are cheaper for the same performance. I do find the older (4years +) Eneloops lose a little performance compared to newer Ikea Ladda.

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Thank you for your reply. I also think they are from the same FDK factory in Japan, but the composition can be different.
Here: http://www.fdk.com/battery/nimh_e/dry_cell_compatible_twicell.html you can see the batteries for industry (OEM) from the FDK plant.
The HR-3UTG on that page might be slightly different than the HR-3UTC (Fujitsu) or BK-3MCCE (Eneloop).
I guess consumers will never really know for sure if the chemistry composition is the same in Fujitsu, Eneloop or Ladda. And if we do, is the difference worth it...

The higher capacity batteries like Ladda 2450 have 3 times shorter cycle lifetime (looking at AAcycler data). I will probably not recharge them much, but I like the idea of longer lifetime so I want to go for normal 2Ah.

What is the normal lifetime of a NiMH LSD battery (like Eneloop)? Is a 4 year old battery already halfway it's lifetime or can it still go for a decade?

NiMHi said:

What is the normal lifetime of a NiMH LSD battery (like Eneloop)? Is a 4 year old battery already halfway it's lifetime or can it still go for a decade?

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Someone idea's? Perhaps data?

Let's say the amount of charging is relative low (100-200x) over the next 10 years. Will a NiMH LSD survive (capacity >80% and no high IR) or will old age kill it sooner?

Can't speak to 10 years, but I have lots of 4-5 year old NiMH batteries in various brands that are still fine. They have, however, probably been discharged and recharged less than 50 times each.

We won't get to 10 years, unscathed, with the high cap ~2500s, in whatever wrapper, even the ones made at FDK, which is owned by Fujitsu, which makes the batteries for Panasonic and others.

Just the nature of the beast.

Cycles don't matter, since they just don't age gracefully.

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

We won't get to 10 years, unscathed, with the high cap ~2500s, in whatever wrapper, even the ones made at FDK, which is owned by Fujitsu, which makes the batteries for Panasonic and others.

Just the nature of the beast.

Cycles don't matter, since they just don't age gracefully.

Chris

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And the min ~1900 ones?

NiMHi said:

And the min ~1900 ones?

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I'm approaching 7 years with some Gen. 2 AAs and AAAs. Most of the AAs are within a good I.R. range on my Maha C9000, but some of the AAAs (light green/dark green) are getting up to the 2.00v rejection range.

I've lost most of my 12 Duracell Ion Core 2450mAh AAs, after almost 3 years.

Anyhow, as some of us around here espouse, if you need more capacity and you're going use them on a daily/weekly basis, then go with the high caps, but if you're looking for longevity, then they're not it.

Basically, use them and abuse them.

Chris

I have two 1st generation Eneloops manufactured 11/2009 and still work brilliantly with minor loss of capacity like 5% or so. They ended up to me so I have no idea of their usage pattern but nevertheless they now work in a Nitcore LED light. My other 2nd generation Eneloops made 3/2010 are also great performers and I think they hold their capacity even better to those 1st gen, like they may have lost 3-4% or so. So, surely Eneloops can work 10 years and more probably without any significant loss. Also measured their IR and all are in the range 20-30mΩ!!!!! My 3 year Eneloop Pros (16 total, manufactured 01/2015) still going strong, very slight capacity drop like 2-4% or so however their IR is more scattered like 30-60mΩ. All made in Japan so I think you can't go wrong with these batteries, no matter the use.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to buy some Fujitsu's (from probably 2014) and I think (hope) they will last a long time.

If you can buy them locally, get the Ikea Ladda. They are the same batteries as Eneloops but a lot cheaper.

eh123456 said:

If you can buy them locally, get the Ikea Ladda. They are the same batteries as Eneloops but a lot cheaper.

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I see more people say that on the www, but I'm not sure if that is true. Perhaps from the same factory, same production line, but perhaps not the same chemical composition.

With Li-Ion the life cycle can increase massive with just a little different additive. See here (from Jeff Dahn presentation): https://youtu.be/pxP0Cu00sZs?t=47m8s

I know Li-Ion is not NiMH, but I like my LSD batteries to last long, both in cycles and in (life)time. So far Eneloop (and Fujitsu) have proven to do so. Ikea Ladda (from China) not.

According to the following thread, Ikea Laddas are worse than Eneloop Pros at holding a charge over a period of several months. That is, the Laddas have higher self-discharge than the Eneloop Pros. So, they don't appear to be identical.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...one-done-Self-Discharge-tests-on-Eneloop-Pros

If you want the best, you'll have to pay up for the Eneloops. If you want good but cheap, go with the Laddas.

^^^ Also note that the above link shows that the 2450 Ladda are much more inconsistent between samples than the Eneloop Pro - same as in AACycler's tests.

The Fujitsu's (HR-3UTC) that I got have a stamp that says "1 7 -0714". My old eneloops from around 2013 have a "1 2- 02AW" stamp, so my guess is that the new Fujitsu are from 2017, but not 100% sure.

Is there any truth in doing a condition charge for new NiMH LSD batteries? If so, how?

I think I'm just going to do a standard -dV 700 mA charge, 350 mA discharge and final 700mA charge.

NiMHi said:

Is there any truth in doing a condition charge for new NiMH LSD batteries? If so, how?

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It helps, but only a small amount. For example, I was able to go from an average of 1917 mAh to 1972 mAh, after conditioning. This is averaging 4 new regular Eneloops, and testing using a 250mA discharge to 0.8v. It's a 2.8% gain. That's up to you to decide if it's worth it.

Do do the conditioning, just drain the cell to 0.8v, then charge to 100%. That's one full cycle.

I think you'll eventually get the 2.8% extra capacity just though normal use. But, doing a couple of full cycles will get it for you faster.