Regular Eneloop vs pro

I was just about to order some Eneloop pro AA, And then I found out here that Ikea Ladd batteries are probably the same as the pro's.
Good news, they are a lot cheaper!
but, doing some more reading on this forum I noticed some posts mentioning that the pro's do not last very long at all, I haven't really found much more about this issue, if this really is true then I guess no more pro's for me.
So here's my question: I am using my Fenix HL50 daily So I go through quite a lot off batteries, so far I have been using Eneloop pro's in this light, I have quite a few of these so I don't know how many times they have been charged.
I did some measurements this morning;Letting it run on high ( 150 lumens), and now and then checking if the turbo ( 285 lumens) worked.
after two hours turbo stopped working, I then took out the battery and measured the voltage; 0.97 v.
5 min later only low and mid setting where working,i measured 0.91 v.
this is normally the stage I notice the battery is empty and I replace it.
Should I go back to regular Eneloops for this light?

I also have a Nitecore EA81and a ThruNite TN4A

these are being used strictly for emergencies, so the Pro's hardly get recharged at all, so I would be okay here.

Pro do not have the long life of normal eneloop, but they will usual last a some years.

thanks, I submitted the posts to early, the edited version has some more info

Pro is said to be rechargeable up to 500 times which is still awful lot. I just ordered eneloop pros for my edc flashlight. I will report back how they are doing

I run 10 pcs 3rd gen eneloops in nihm compatible devices. They are rated for 1800 cycles, but despite off they are being used constantly, they are far below even 100 cycles.

If you do the math, either cell is likely to last longer than the equipment you put it into. If you re-charge once a week, the pro is good for just under 10 years, and the standard product for about 35 years! As I said, you are far more likely to replace the equipment the cell is in long before the cell gives out.
t

I don't think the Ikea Laddas are exactly the same as Eneloop Pros. This thread seems to indicate the Laddas aren't quite as good at holding a charge over time.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?447670-Anyone-done-Self-Discharge-tests-on-Eneloop-Pros

But that may not be important in your application, especially given the price difference.

Also, there's the question of whether Laddas hold up over time. But since the Eneloop Pros aren't really designed to last a long time, that probably isn't too important either.

There had been some speculation that the Pro version may be less robust than the standard formulation, but I have searched for anything substantive to confirm or refute this.

Although plausible, I would be interested to know any data addressing this.

Note that I am not referring to recharge cycles, but stresses, such as physical drops, temperature extremes, or similar.

mattheww50 said:

If you do the math, either cell is likely to last longer than the equipment you put it into. If you re-charge once a week, the pro is good for just under 10 years, and the standard product for about 35 years! As I said, you are far more likely to replace the equipment the cell is in long before the cell gives out.
t

Click to expand...

I know about the 500 cycles, what I am referring to is the mentioning by some members here that they only get 30 or 50 cycles out of these batteries.
I thought I linked to these posts, but apparently one can't link to a individual post, just a thread.

here it is
scroll down to post number 17

Well, someone needs to take a stand. Eneloop Pros are fragile and not worth the considerable extra money for a negligible increase in capacity and a massively decreased cell life. I think I got maybe 50 recharges out of the 8 AAAs I own before they all exhibited the symptoms of increased resistance: dim lights. I take full responsibility for the damage incurred by my Eneloop Pros, basically my first set of rechargeables, and though I tried, could never really estimate when they'd hit the knee before dropping below 1V

Click to expand...

and post number 2

Pro or XX supposedly have a cycle rate of 500, but test have show you can get less than 300 if you fully discharge the battery`s every time which really defeats the point in having the extra capacity.

Click to expand...

so, is there any truth to these ridiculously low cycle figures? or should I just ignore these posts?

My father uses his 1aaa edc light (fenix ld02) with eneloop pro for the last 3-4 years. He keeps his flashlight in the car (winter is around -21, summer is +36 Celsius). The light works well with that battery. It was recharged a few times.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

I don't think the Ikea Laddas are exactly the same as Eneloop Pros. This thread seems to indicate the Laddas aren't quite as good at holding a charge over time.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?447670-Anyone-done-Self-Discharge-tests-on-Eneloop-Pros

But that may not be important in your application, especially given the price difference.

Also, there's the question of whether Laddas hold up over time. But since the Eneloop Pros aren't really designed to last a long time, that probably isn't too important either.

Click to expand...

I just read this thread you mentioned, interesting, but I'm not really all that bothered about 85 or 70% discharge, I was just wondering about this 30 to 50 cycles and then the batteries dying.

30 to 50 cycles is still a huge cost saving over primaries

linpp said:

I just read this thread you mentioned, interesting, but I'm not really all that bothered about 85 or 70% discharge, I was just wondering about this 30 to 50 cycles and then the batteries dying.

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Cycle life will depend on many factors. For very high-rate devices I wouldn't be surprised if you get only 50 cycles, since the rising IR is the determining factor. For moderate rates one should expect 3-4 times more according to AACycler's data for cells cycled at 500mA discharge (and 1A charge). Let's briefly examine his results.

2 1900mAh eneloop delivered about 750 & 720Ah total to 80% capacity in about 400 cycles.

2 2450mAh Ikea Ladda delivered about 500 & 380Ah total to 80% capacity in about 217 & 156 cycles.

2 2500mAh Eneloop Pro delivered about 390Ah total to 80% capacity in about 165 cycles.

So the best regular eneloop delivered about 50% more Ah than the best Ladda Pro over its lifetime, and about 92% more than an Eneloop Pro.

And the best Ladda Pro delivered about 28% more than the best Eneloop Pro, while the worst was about the same.

But at rates much higher than 500mA the comparison may be much different, esp. since AACyler's graphs show that there is high variation in IR between samples (so you may have to filter for good high-rate cells).

Note that the cycle life is much lower than Panasonic's claims (2100) because Panasonic uses IEC tests which are designed to model "typical" lower rate devices using shallower (60%) cycles, and it doesn't deem them "dead" till they reach 60% capacity, vs. 80% in AACycler's tests (see here for further info)

@Gauss163

Thank you for explaining all this, I'm getting a somewhat clearer picture now.
The Eneloop pro / Ladda batteries are good for my emergency lights, but the appliances and lights I use daily I will definitely stick with the regular Eneloops.

linpp said:

@Gauss163
The Eneloop pro / Ladda batteries are good for my emergency lights, but the appliances and lights I use daily I will definitely stick with the regular Eneloops.

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If anything, I'd make that the reverse. Emergency lights are seldom used, and so will benefit from the very low self-discharge that regular Eneloops give you. Your daily lights don't care about self-discharge, and might benefit from the extra run-time of the Pros or Laddas. Or, just stick with regulars for everything (like I do).

Take note of Fujitsu Black Pro rechargeable batteries.
The Takasaki manufacturer will no doubt keep something back for themself, it's a Japanese 'Thing'.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

If anything, I'd make that the reverse. Emergency lights are seldom used, and so will benefit from the very low self-discharge that regular Eneloops give you. Your daily lights don't care about self-discharge, and might benefit from the extra run-time of the Pros or Laddas. Or, just stick with regulars for everything (like I do).

Click to expand...

Actually, your argument about emergency lights benefiting from the low self-discharge makes sense, I think I'll get regular Eneloops for the emergency lights, and then get a bunch of these relatively cheap Ladda s For my HL 50 headlamp.
I realise in the long run these are more expensive but the daily convenience of two hours runtime instead of one hour forty is worth it to me