New Nitecore nl1835hp 18650 arrived dead out of the package

Rwilliam

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First, I have enjoyed and use this forum for many yearsn, thx!

I recently got 2 Nitecore mh23's and 3 nl1835hp batteries, 2 sellers.

My concern is my first 2 batteries arrived charged with 3.5-3.5 volts per the MH23 flasher.
The 3rd battery was dead. These batteries have only been out a few years could have died completely?

In the past I used eneloops, powerex charger, in my Felix TK41, I have no experience with rechargeable lithium types. Served me well for many years, researched it on CPF, thanks again! RW

should I just charge the dead battery? Or Send it back?
 

Crazyeddiethefirst

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Is it possible the safety circuit is tripped? In my experience even 10 year old Lithium Ion batteries are not "dead". Try putting it in the appropriate charger and check the voltage after a few minutes-if it is in the "normal" range, the protection circuit had been tripped. If it was me, I would use it a few days and see if it worked as it should-if not send it back. Just my opinion and I am open to hear what others say. Obviously if it does not charge then send it back...
 

zipplet

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Agreed with Crazyeddie - stick the bad one in a charger that supports reviving protection circuit tripped batteries (all XTAR chargers for example) for about 1-2 minutes, then measure the voltage. It should then register a low voltage but above 2V. Then charge at a slow speed until full. Measure the resting voltage 1 hour after charging. Then wait 24 hours and measure it again. If it has fallen noticeably (e.g. 4.15V -> 4.0V) then the cell has suffered some damage.

As for the other, it sounds fine. It is fairly normal for them to be shipped with a voltage around 3.5-3.7V.
 

Rwilliam

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Thank you. I asked the seller he said it was normal, as they ship them with little charge due to explosion risk during air transport. I will update the thread after.

as I understand it the cell is turned off around 2.7 volts to prevent damaging the cell due to low voltage?
 

Rwilliam

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Agreed with Crazyeddie - stick the bad one in a charger that supports reviving protection circuit tripped batteries (all XTAR chargers for example) for about 1-2 minutes, then measure the voltage. It should then register a low voltage but above 2V. Then charge at a slow speed until full. Measure the resting voltage 1 hour after charging. Then wait 24 hours and measure it again. If it has fallen noticeably (e.g. 4.15V -> 4.0V) then the cell has suffered some damage.

As for the other, it sounds fine. It is fairly normal for them to be shipped with a voltage around 3.5-3.7V.


Which xtar charger would recocommend? VC4 looks inexpensive and has this feature: "
  • 0V activation can bring dead batteries back to life"

Is "OV" a revival cycle?


with my eneloop powerx charger I found a full discharge and recharge works as well or better then cycling regenerating feature.

Appreciate it
 

ChrisGarrett

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Take 0v cell and put nose to nose with a charged cell (+ to +,) then short the two negative ends with a paper clip. That should reset the PCB circuit, if it's been tripped.

Chris
 

fyrstormer

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It is sometimes helpful to charge protected cells using a NiMH charger for a few minutes, to bring up the voltage enough that the protection circuit disengages. Then finish charging in a Li-Ion charger.
 

zipplet

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Which xtar charger would recocommend?
Pretty much all of their chargers offer this function. Other brands also offer it, but I recommend XTAR myself due to their track record with safety.
(If you would like me to recommend a specific model please let me know your requirements)
0V activation function is XTAR's marketing for being able to revive a battery with tripped protection circuit. It applies a very slow charge to wake up the battery, then switches to normal charging if the battery was able to recover.
What charger do you currently use?
 
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Gauss163

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Pretty much all of their chargers offer this function. Other brands also offer it, but I recommend XTAR myself due to their track record with safety

Beware marketing hype (esp. regarding safety). Reports here and elsewhere contradict such claims. If you are sincerely concerned about safety of consumer-level chargers then I recommend that your peruse user feedback both here and on other hobby forums (and also Amazon). Search on the manufacturer / model with keywords like smoke, fire, melt, burn, safety etc. This will reveal a more truthful view of the matter. Also peruse reviews and take note of quality control issues.
 

zipplet

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Beware marketing hype (esp. regarding safety). Reports here and elsewhere contradict such claims. If you are sincerely concerned about safety of consumer-level chargers then I recommend that your peruse user feedback both here and on other hobby forums (and also Amazon). Search on the manufacturer / model with keywords like smoke, fire, melt, burn, safety etc. This will reveal a more truthful view of the matter. Also peruse reviews and take note of quality control issues.

Agreed * 100000%. I strongly endorse this. My own recommendation/opinion about the use of any charger comes from my own research, in-depth reviews posted by some kind members here, and occasionally a teardown/analysis done by myself (I am an no expert but an electronics hobbyist). Every manufacturer claims they are the safest; but the reality is far from that.

Going off topic, but this is one of the things I really enjoy about this community. People have other peoples backs with regards to things like this, everyone learns and (in theory) the number of accidents is minimised.
 

Rwilliam

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Take 0v cell and put nose to nose with a charged cell (+ to +,) then short the two negative ends with a paper clip. That should reset the PCB circuit, if it's been tripped.

Chris


Thx! It worked.

The MH23 flashed charging for about 2 seconds then rapid flashing indicating a problem, I tristed the end onoff a couple times it fired right up, still charging.

Btw: I had a second battery sent from the eBay seller it did the same thing?
 

ChrisGarrett

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Thx! It worked.

The MH23 flashed charging for about 2 seconds then rapid flashing indicating a problem, I tristed the end onoff a couple times it fired right up, still charging.

Btw: I had a second battery sent from the eBay seller it did the same thing?
 

ChrisGarrett

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Thx! It worked.

The MH23 flashed charging for about 2 seconds then rapid flashing indicating a problem, I tristed the end onoff a couple times it fired right up, still charging.

Btw: I had a second battery sent from the eBay seller it did the same thing?

Just my two cents, but you probably want to stay away from Ebay sellers.

Storage voltage from reputable sellers is between 3.60v-3.70v, for li-ion cells.

Congrats.

Chris
 

Rwilliam

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Just my two cents, but you probably want to stay away from Ebay sellers.

Storage voltage from reputable sellers is between 3.60v-3.70v, for li-ion cells.

Congrats.

Chris


I agree. My first two nl1835hp arrived with 3.5v per the MH23 flash indicator, then charged to 4.3v. After a week or two of light use (haha) fell to 4.1, few weeks later 4v.

The cell I shorted that arrived dead ( note the seller sent me a replacement that also was unchangable) only charged to 4.1v.
Note: I bought 2 MH23 and have a total of 4 cells from two sellers.



Does does the lower initial charge indicate a bad cell or perhaps fake?
 

Rwilliam

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Here is the reply from the seller, any feedback appreciated:

"Xxxx,

A standard protected 18650 battery should not be charged above 4.2v. The protection circuit is supposed to prevent the voltage from exceeding 4.2v. Otherwise the 18650 cell would run the risk of being ruined at the worst and shortening the life at the best. Most good protection circuit built in a good 18650 battery would stop the charging at around 4.12v or 4.13v to leave enough safety net.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx . Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. If you would like to clarify, we could get you connected with the Nitecore factory rep directly to have a discussion there. We are the Nitecore distributor, we can get you connected with them directly.

Let me know if you want to talk with Nitecore about this.

Thank you
James"
 
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ChrisGarrett

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Here is the reply from the seller, any feedback appreciated:

"Xxxx,

A standard protected 18650 battery should not be charged above 4.2v. The protection circuit is supposed to prevent the voltage from exceeding 4.2v. Otherwise the 18650 cell would run the risk of being ruined at the worst and shortening the life at the best. Most good protection circuit built in a good 18650 battery would stop the charging at around 4.12v or 4.13v to leave enough safety net.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx . Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. If you would like to clarify, we could get you connected with the Nitecore factory rep directly to have a discussion there. We are the Nitecore distributor, we can get you connected with them directly.

Let me know if you want to talk with Nitecore about this.

Thank you
James"

While I don't have a lot of protected cells here and only one protected NiteCore 18650, that guy isn't correct. While protection circuits can be configured by somebody for X, Y or Z, that reply isn't entirely correct.

Protection circuits will generally give a little wiggle room, say to 4.25v (within charging specs of +/- .05v) and not cutoff at <4.14v.

Learn how to handle/measure li-ion cells and ditch protection circuits altogether.

Does your car have an 80mph/120kph governor on the motor?

I think not.

Chris
 

Gauss163

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Just my two cents, but you probably want to stay away from Ebay sellers.

Storage voltage from reputable sellers is between 3.60v-3.70v, for li-ion cells.

Nowadays storage voltage is not necessarily the same as shipping voltage. Some manufacturers and distributors seem to be shipping at lower voltages recently due to shipping regulations.

eBay is no different from any other large marketplace - seller quality spans a large spectrum. Generally you are completely protected by the eBay money-back guarantee, and as long as you take normal precautions any problems that occur should be rare (and usually you get the item for free in that case). I've purchased thousands of items on eBay and only very rarely had problems. Many items were 5x to 10x less than street price (some even free).
 
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