Lithium 123's now on DEA watchlist!

fuego · #1 01-25-2004, 08:48 AM

Good morning,
I don't usually post but I greatly enjoy CPF and my Surefires!This news story has me a bit upset and I need to share with you.
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/ne...ey01222004.htm The article basically says that the DEA has decided that Lithium batteries are a precursor for producing methamphetamine.Walmart is now limiting purchases.Maybe it is a precursor.I DON'T KNOW!
Flashlights are a nice,harmless,nonoffensive hobby of mine.Hell,I don't even flash animals!It seems that any time I find something that gives me a tiny bit of pleasure and relaxation,someone screws it up.Now it's the DEA?It's a screwed up country when Homeland Security and/or DEA cares about flashlight batteries.This makes me sad.

raggie33 · #2 01-25-2004, 08:58 AM

bummer so 4 123,s is a lot?

Greta · #3 01-25-2004, 09:09 AM

First... let's not blow this out of proportion. This is a Walmart thing... I work at KMart and we don't limit lithium battery sales. In addition, the whole thing with psuedoephadrine is selective at best. Not ALL products containing the stuff are limited... by the computer. I can scan one box of Sudafed brand cold/allergy medicine and have to ask for ID. But if I scan a box of AmericanFare (Kmart brand), it just goes right through without any prompt for age verification. On the otherhand, I have to card for spray paint and some kinds of glue/adhesives and for those single-edge razor blades used for scraping paint or whatever.

The whole thing with the lithium batteries is that they CAN be an indication of illegal activities... in conjunction with many other factors. We've discussed this previously. Just because you have a buttload of lithium batteries, doesn't mean you're going to jail. There has to be other criteria as well.

Don't blame the Feds for this one... blame the assholes who are cookin' the shit that is being sold to your children.

Greta · #4 01-25-2004, 09:11 AM

And one other thing...

[ QUOTE ]
...while the average employee is paid $8.23 an hour, well below union wages for comparable jobs.

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I'd like to know where THAT Walmart is!! That would be a considerable raise for me!! And I'm one of the highest paid cashiers at my KMart... they started me higher because I was so over-qualified for the job and the assistant manager is a friend... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

tsg68 · #5 01-25-2004, 09:13 AM

Man, that is sad. I wonder when they'll come up with a background check and waiting period for lithium batts too? Meth production and abuse is a huge problem though, but I'm not sure if this law helps or is just another nuisance.

TSG

Bravo25 · #6 01-25-2004, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
Don't blame the Feds for this one... blame the assholes who are cookin' the shit that is being sold to your children.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice about not blowing it out of proprtion. (at least until they make battery manufactures report my shipments). But I can't say I really blame the assholes alone. We need to see that they get 40 years for doing it!

jayflash · #7 01-25-2004, 09:19 AM

The stupid drug war that Nixon began in the 60's may well haunt us. It would not surprise me if online orders for a dozen 123's will be jeopardized. You may get an unwanted knock on your door someday.

This is why those who don't use drugs should be concerned too. Under the guise of fighting drugs, our homes, money and property can be seized. Why are we repeating the costly mistake of alcohol prohibition which failed 80 years ago? I'll answer that - it's pure politics. The pols believe they'll get more votes from you.

raggie33 · #8 01-25-2004, 09:20 AM

this still stinks some low life drug dealers we cant buy batterys with out looking like a bad person.i wanted to buyat least 20 of em on pay day

tsg68 · #9 01-25-2004, 09:20 AM

Hey Sasha it sounds like small potatoes type stuff that they're worried about, I mean I'm sure that there are other more nefarious ways that manufacturers of meth can get lithiums, like warehouse breakin's or truck jackings or even stealing from inside an establishment, right. Chengiz would probably be able to enlighten us more about this type of activity, eh?

TSG

FlashlightOCD · #10 01-25-2004, 09:22 AM

I'm certainly no expert, but wouldn't it be difficult to extract lithium from batteries? Don't they still contain some pretty nasty chemicals beyond lithium.

I just checked eBay and you can but the pure metal there. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

raggie33 · #11 01-25-2004, 09:24 AM

didnt they use lithium as a salt substute a long time ago i know thats how they came up with the medicine called lithium

Bravo25 · #12 01-25-2004, 09:30 AM

TSG,
Actually the primay way is still the "hit,and run". A bunch of them will hit a town, and steal, or buy as many as they can, then blow out. Or for the connected ones, guess what, order them online.(Can you say tracking from all battery resalers). Perhaps we have already forgotten Las Vegas on New Years. Every motel, and hotel was required to submit a list of guest to the FBI. Hmmmm?

tsg68 · #13 01-25-2004, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
FlashlightOCD said:
I'm certainly no expert, but wouldn't it be difficult to extract lithium from batteries? Don't they still contain some pretty nasty chemicals beyond lithium.

I just checked eBay and you can but the pure metal there. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You ever see a meth addict? I don't think that the meth cookers are really worried about the health of their clientel and therefore are not concerned too much if their product contains toxic byproducts, hell, most of the ingredients and processing chemicals are toxic.

TSG

Greta · #14 01-25-2004, 10:08 AM

Well considering that they also use stuff like toluene and Drano to produce meth, I doubt they really care about those "other nasty chemicals"... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif[/img]

browntown · #15 01-25-2004, 10:19 AM

Not to drift off topic too much, but the local papers are calling my home town of Salem, OR the meth capital of the US. That may be an exagerration, but this town of 150,000ppl is now seeing a very large increase in crime in very rapid order. The press is squarely blaming it on meth. As someone who had his fun in college, and has always been on the side of loosening drug laws, meth seems to have a disproportional level of harm on our communities than other drugs. Here is an article from my local paper.

fuego · #16 01-25-2004, 10:24 AM

Dear CPFers,
I agree that meth sucks.Possessing precursors can be used to establish intent.Producing it is considered a terrorist act(WMD).This falls under the Patriot Act(I and II).What if you were found with lithium and Pseudephedrine(cold medicine)or red phosphorus(matches),or CASH,etc....?
A determined LEO might be willing to pursue this,leading to search,seizure,forfeiture of property.Maybe that's stretching it a bit,but so is tracking battery purchases.

Greta · #17 01-25-2004, 10:27 AM

Fuego... you should post more often... I like you!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

raggie33 · #18 01-25-2004, 10:32 AM

what do they consider to many? im sick of paying 7 bucks a peice for em at walmart so will they look at me odd if i order 20 online ? i can get 20 online for what i pay for 3 localy

Bravo25 · #19 01-25-2004, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
what do they consider to many? im sick of paying 7 bucks a peice for em at walmart so will they look at me odd if i order 20 online ? i can get 20 online for what i pay for 3 localy

[/ QUOTE ]

While I know of no "official" tracking list at this time, neither did the people of Vegas know they were going to be part of the FBI guest list.

FlashlightOCD · #20 01-25-2004, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
what do they consider to many? im sick of paying 7 bucks a peice for em at walmart so will they look at me odd if i order 20 online ? i can get 20 online for what i pay for 3 localy

[/ QUOTE ]

Just 20?

Heck I buy 7 boxes at a time when I order from Surefire, so I can get the free shipping ... that is 84 batteries.

I'm also sure I have some Claritin-D in the house that contains Pseudophedrine.

I guess I better lock the doors and close the curtains.

MicroE · #21 01-25-2004, 12:32 PM

FlashlightOCD said:
"...Heck I buy 7 boxes at a time when I order from Surefire, so I can get the free shipping ... that is 84 batteries...."

Now I'm upset (and off topic).
I received a box of 72 from Surefire on Friday.
When I ordered them the lady in customer service didn't say that I could increase the order a small bit and get free shipping.

X-CalBR8 · #22 01-25-2004, 12:58 PM

Here is a link to a similar topic that I started several months ago. It would seem that this issue is continuing to escalate, as I suspected that it would.

Is it just me, or can anyone else remember a time when you were supposedly "innocent until proven guilty" in this country? Now days it's "you have the means to commit a crime so we are going to slap a mandatory drug sentence on you and nip it in the bud". I just don't even have the words to describe how un-American, immoral and just plain wrong I believe such laws to be. That is like saying, 'well sir, you own a gun and so you have the *means* to commit a crime so we had better just take that nasty weapon of mass destruction away from you and throw you in jail *before* you get the chance to hurt anyone with it'.

I'm against kids getting drugged up and then going out and hurting people as much as the next guy, but you have to at least *wait* till they actually commit a crime before you lock them up, that is if you want to have any pretense to justice at all.

@Sasha: I know that your stance is that it's because of the criminals that we have these laws and that they are solely to blame for it, but *bad criminals are no excuse for bad laws*. You've heard my stance on it before that if they really want to do something about the worst of the worst that they should try actually enforcing the death penalty and that is about as harsh as you can get with any criminal, excluding torture (which is banned by the constitution), but we should at least wait for a person to actually commit the crime before laying down the law on them, that's all that I'm saying.

All of this throwing people in jail on mandatory drug sentences over "precursor" stuff is a load of BS and sets a VERY BAD legal precedent. What will be next, I own a gun, so isn't that a precursor to being a murderer? Better go on and lock me up, just to be on the safe side. We, the all-knowing, all-powerful, government lawmakers can't allow you the freedom to possibly go out and kill someone just to prove whether you are a murderer or not. We had better go on and just nip the whole thing in the bud, take away your guns, lock you up, and be done with it, before anybody has the chance to get hurt.

*Sheesh*, what is this country coming to?

raggie33 · #23 01-25-2004, 01:03 PM

people do some werid stuff in this world who in the world would.do that stuff it has to be bad for you.i rather see them smoke a joint or something.so thease people do drug with old batteiers in them and other chemiicals damn id hate to run into them in a dark alley scare the hell out of ya they must look like hell

Greta · #24 01-25-2004, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
All of this throwing people in jail on mandatory drug sentences over "precursor" stuff is a load of BS and sets a VERY BAD legal precedent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... I agree. And would be even more upset if you could provide me with proof that it's actually happening... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] ... Perhaps you have a link to an actual occurance of where someone was tossed in jail just because they had some lithium batteries? Or just because they had some Sudafed? Even though I really, really hate repeating myself, I'll say this again... any ONE "precursor" is not going to land your butt in jail... and it's certainly not going to be enough for any court in this nation to issue a warrant for search. But you put 5-10 "precursors" together and chances are about 99% that it's a duck.

raggie33 · #25 01-25-2004, 01:33 PM

listens to sasha and orders my batts .

Greta · #26 01-25-2004, 01:34 PM

raggie... you're alright in my book... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

raggie33 · #27 01-25-2004, 01:38 PM

thank you sasha and youre alright in my book to [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BlindedByTheLite · #28 01-25-2004, 01:47 PM

Sasha can i call you "Mom"

kakster · #29 01-25-2004, 01:55 PM

I dont know what the situation in the US is like, but here in the UK, you can get a gram of meths or some heroin on the streets for much less than the price of a Duracell 123 battery in the shops.

Greta · #30 01-25-2004, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BlindedByTheLite said:
Sasha can i call you "Mom"

[/ QUOTE ]

That really depends on how old you are... I just turned 42 a few days ago... I wouldn't want anyone to think that I was a little "ho" at 10... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif[/img]