CR123A meltdown in PM6: What happened?

Paul_in_Maryland · #1 08-30-2005, 06:39 PM

Look what happened to the CR123A cells in my Pelican M6 xenon light:

left: (+) terminal of lower cell
right: (-) terminal of upper cell

What's more, the red rubber shroud that covers the clickie switch had peeled away and was hanging by a thread.

An acrid smell filled the vicinity. The cells were quite new, from a reputable dealer and manufacturer.

I didn't notice the damage right away--not till I reached for the light and saw the dangling rubber sheath.

What happened? Did the switch turn on and stay on while the light was in my belt pouch, causing the light to overheat? The lamp assembly is fine, and with fresh cells the light works fine.

tvodrd · #2 08-30-2005, 07:03 PM

JMO, but it looks as if the lower cell catasprophically vented. Do yo have a voltmeter to check the upper, towards the lamp, cell? If it's still 3V we may have another clue.

Larry

Beamhead · #3 08-30-2005, 07:37 PM

What brand of cells were they?

nemul · #4 08-30-2005, 07:58 PM

Paul_in_Maryland · #5 08-30-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvodrd

Do yo have a voltmeter to check the upper, towards the lamp, cell? If it's still 3V we may have another clue. Larry

Sorry, I don't.

Paul_in_Maryland · #6 08-30-2005, 08:00 PM

Battery Station.

Billson · #7 08-30-2005, 08:23 PM

Have you tried to contact Kevin and have the cells sent back to him for analysis?

tvodrd · #8 08-30-2005, 08:28 PM

Paul,

After cleaning everything, can you pop the front cell along with a fresh one into the PM6 and try it? (That assumes it works with 2 fresh cells again.)

Larry

HarryN · #9 08-30-2005, 10:39 PM

Battery Station is a very reputable RETAILER. The warranty from the MANUFACTURER of reputable BATTERIES will provide a warranty for damage from the cells on your device - as long as it does not recharge the cells.

Paul_in_Maryland · #10 08-31-2005, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billson

Have you tried to contact Kevin and have the cells sent back to him for analysis?

No, I haven't. I guess I should. You know, the clickie switch on a PM6 is very sensitive, and I just figured that the light turned on and stayed on in my bag, which might cause any cell to vent. I use a glass lens so that would explain why there's no damage there--if, in fact, the light turned on.

Paul_in_Maryland · #11 08-31-2005, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvodrd

Paul,

After cleaning everything, can you pop the front cell along with a fresh one into the PM6 and try it? (That assumes it works with 2 fresh cells again.)Larry

It does work with fresh cells. I'll try it (when I get home), but can you share with us what this might reveal?

Paul_in_Maryland · #12 08-31-2005, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryN

Battery Station is a very reputable RETAILER. The warranty from the MANUFACTURER of reputable BATTERIES will provide a warranty for damage from the cells on your device - as long as it does not recharge the cells.

The only damage was that the red tailcap shroud came off. The tailcap still works, though the switch mechanism wiggles around. I trust it's not dangerous to touch the metal cap directly.

lexina · #13 08-31-2005, 07:24 PM

Is it my imagination or is this happening more frequently with the PM6 (see 'A Little Accident' sticky thread under General Discussions). Could it be a design fault rather than faulty batteries? Am concerned cos I was thinking of getting the PM6.

The other incidents I have read involved the PT Surge and PT 40, both dive-lights which, being air/water-tight, do not allow built-up hydrogen gas to escape.

Incidentally, I have yet to come across an incident involving any of the Surefires.

TonkinWarrior · #14 08-31-2005, 10:53 PM

That PM6 tailcap could well be the source of the problem. We had a pretty thorough thread about this issue a month or so ago. The bottom line is, while the PM6 is a rugged "throw" light, its tailcap is often problematic. Mine is touchy, too.

Pelican has good customer service. If you call them, they'll give you a service/claim number and tell ya to send it in for fix... or replacement.

HarryN · #15 08-31-2005, 11:35 PM

Does anyone know the current draw on the PM6 ? As you get above 1 amp from each cell, things can start to warm up.

BTW, there are SF lights related incidents reported in the threads as well. Any light which pulls in the 1.5 - 2 amp range from a 123 for very long is going to be on the ragged edge of an issue. (assuming you trust Silverfox's tables)

KevinL · #16 08-31-2005, 11:45 PM

Batterystation is also the exclusive master distributor of these cells which were manufactured at their request and with their involvement, plus they're a Pelican dealer as well, and an all-round good company - you should definitely be able to get some help from them if not a resolution. Give them a shot, they'll make things right.

lexina · #17 09-01-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonkinWarrior

That PM6 tailcap could well be the source of the problem. We had a pretty thorough thread about this issue a month or so ago. The bottom line is, while the PM6 is a rugged "throw" light, its tailcap is often problematic. Mine is touchy, too.

that sounds plausible. if, as Paul says, the switch is very sensitive, it wouldn't be difficult to accidentally knock it on and the batteries would have fully discharged. btw, i thought only the PM6-led came with the clickie?

Paul_in_Maryland · #18 09-01-2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexina

i thought only the PM6-led came with the clickie?

You are correct. I was able to get a clickie because a fellow CPFer had seen read my thread lamenting my inability to purchase one from Pelican, and he contacted a friend at Pelican, who sent me one.

The UCL glass lens came with the light, which I bought used on eBay about two months ago.

The PM 6 used to be my EDC but I no longer feel comfortable carrying a light with such a trigger-happy switch, and I'd rather not use a twistie. I was thinking about giving the PM6 to a GI who is shipping off to Iraq in about 8 days. Should I give it with the bare, wobbly clickie, the twistie, or both?

innerlight · #19 09-01-2005, 08:04 AM

WOW
Sorry to hear that Paul

Hope Pelican treats you well
Let us know how it works out

batterystation · #20 09-02-2005, 10:26 AM

This type of thing is usually caused by batteries in series that are in a different state of charge. Slightly used with fresh, etc. Whatever the cause, we will replace both if you will send them to us. Kevin

Kiessling · #21 09-02-2005, 05:30 PM

I cannot imagine the light being left on is the culprit here ... should be able to safely maintain a continious burn. We have a lot of higher drain lights that don't do this kind of stuff.

Kevin's explanation seems a plausible one.

bernie

Paul_in_Maryland · #22 09-04-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batterystation

This type of thing is usually caused by batteries in series that are in a different state of charge. Slightly used with fresh, etc. Whatever the cause, we will replace both if you will send them to us. Kevin

Kevin, I'm not sure whether, by "both," you mean both cells or both the cells and the flashlight, which I bought used, with a glass lens, on eBay. In any event, I've pretty much made up my mind to give the light to a GI on his way to Iraq, with some fresh, spare batteries from your last shipment to me. So the question is: Which tailcap should I provide? The bare metal clickie? The twistie? Or both?

cy · #23 10-01-2005, 06:47 PM

please do post when/if you determine fault. sure glad no one was hurt!

thanks,

Paul_in_Maryland · #24 10-02-2005, 10:24 AM

I returned the cells to BatteryStation, together with the light. In exchange, Kevin sent me a new Pelican M6 and a ton of new cells, which I've since donated to a "support our troops" drive at my place of work. Kevin, have you determined what happened?

NewBie · #25 03-02-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_in_Maryland

I returned the cells to BatteryStation, together with the light. In exchange, Kevin sent me a new Pelican M6 and a ton of new cells, which I've since donated to a "support our troops" drive at my place of work. Kevin, have you determined what happened?

That is great customer service!

Lunal_Tic · #26 03-02-2006, 09:41 PM

I'm just wondering, do you think the non - clickie versions are less likely to have this problem?

-LT

cy · #27 03-02-2006, 10:03 PM

still wondering what was cause of melt-down?

maybe we'll never know...

Paul_in_Maryland · #28 03-05-2006, 09:02 AM

I never heard back from BatteryStation, so I don't know what, if anything, was found. You might check the sticky thread "A Little Accident" under Flashlights, General.

NewBie · #29 04-22-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_in_Maryland

I never heard back from BatteryStation, so I don't know what, if anything, was found. You might check the sticky thread "A Little Accident" under Flashlights, General.

Wow, yet another Lithium 123 cell flashlight has a cell failure.

We are such a tiny community of under 20,000 users, it is amazing to see additional folks who have Primary cell Lithium battery failures.

I'm surprised that flashlight makers won't spend the additional 0 cents (yes free in some lights-circuitry is already there, just need to implement it) to 50 cents in a light to prevent one possible mode of failure, over discharging cells, which might possibly lead to a failure like you saw.

SilverFox · #30 04-22-2006, 11:01 AM

Hello Newbie,

It is my understanding that AmondTech was concerned about this and it prompted Wayne to include a PTC in his Titanium CR123 cells.

Do you think a PTC would prevent this type of failure?

I am also under the impression that very few primary 123 cells have PTC protection. Have you heard anything about that?

Tom