# The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens (now 14!)



## andrewwynn

My buddy LarryK came up with a really neat idea.. put a par64, 600W landing light into a $7.99 harbor freight spotlight.. piecsa crap that had a 'pie pan' for a reflector.. it'd be funny if it wasn't sad. 

Anyhow.. with utter astonishment we discovered that the lamp fits inside the bezel exactly if it was made for it.. 





here is a direct link to the host larry used.

He came up with a LiPO pack that can take the punishment that fits completely inside.. and we have measured over 550W under load.. we are estimating roughly 12,000 torch lumen.. it's quite stunning. 

Only have indoor beams so far, but we will get the outdoor shots next time we do some head-to-head with the likes of the maxabeam etc.. 

for now.. 





The LarryK12 aka 'LK12'.. on top.. the 'soft flood' trying to be a spot below it.. is a Mag625.. 2500+L from 10'.. the LK12 is about 15' away. 





Here is the LK12 on top of an X990 set to spot.. this time about the same distance.. 15' away.

HOLY COW.. what fun! 

The light weighs 4.44 pounds with the battery pack internal! 

-awr


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## jtice

*Re: The "LarryK12"*



Thats really stomping the X990.
Cant wait to see some outdoor shots,

what kinda runtime do you expect?

~John


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## nemul

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

yes, outdoor shots!


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## missionaryman

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

yes please do some outdoor beamshots


does it run reliably enough to sell?


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## That_Guy

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

A fully self-contained "The Sleeper", pretty impressive! I was thinking of making a light using a par64 landing light, but the $800 cost of a custom machined handle put me off.  Now you've come up with a host for the lamp for only $8! The fact that it's self contained is a bonus!

What lamp did you use? Is it the Q4559X used in The Sleeper? What battery did you use? I know it's li-po, but how many cells is it, what capacity is it, how much did it cost, where did you get it from and how long does it run for?


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## missionaryman

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

it makes the mag625 look like a minimag and the x990 look like a 3w luxeon

I just can't believe how much light that thing is putting out - wont it mel in the plastic host?


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## greenLED

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

I wonder if the heat will melt that housing?


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

Hi, I'll chime in here. First off I can not take full credit for this, someone else made a similar light some time back but as far as I remember it was not self contained. I used a GE 4559 28 volt lamp with 8 2150 mah Tanic Li-po batteries. The batteries are running at just about spec. 10-12 C discharge rate that will yield about 5 minutes runtime. But it was not about runtime to begin with, just seeing if it was doable. I want to use a higher capacity battery in the future but boy are they expensive. For a 6000 mah 28.8 volt pack your looking at around $ 300.00 or more. As far as heat goes AWR and myself were quite surprised that the majority of the heat goes out the front. In fact the beam shots were taken with me holding the bulb only, and AWR's brother JR manning the switch. I am putting the light together today with a low voltage warning device installed so I don't ruin $ 150.00 worth of batteries. Will do some outdoor beam shots as soon as AWR and myself get together again. It is quite impressive seeing that much light comming out of a 4.4 pound package.


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## LEDcandle

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

Is the reflector Alu??
Btw, :goodjob: !!!!
It's a monster!!!


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

The bulb is a one piece sealed beam and all glass, similar to an automotive lamp.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

holy smoke that's the most i've ever seen LK type.. he's not a typer. 

after running a minute or two (hand holding from the back).. the outer edge that touches the plastic wasn't even 100F.. with a 4-5 minute runtime.. there is virtually no concern of heat issues, it's kinda neat that way. 

The reflector is built into the glass envelope of the bulb.. and apparently .. thick enough and reflective enough that very very little heat gets out the back, it's quite amazing. 

LK did hit on the fact the batts aren't cheap.. and it's not really recommended to use the cells stacked to 8 like that.. i'm looking into an alternative for mine.. using sub-c NiMH.. so i can add another cell to compete with voltage sag.. I'll maybe try to use the PIR to run it for some regulated output to boot.. i'll have to find a bigger FET perhaps than the hotdriver models, although actually that FET should work if it turns on fast enough. 

I have a bit of a mock-up with my v28 battery and flashlight.. but there seems to be an incompatibility with the v28 battery.. it ticks off for a microsecond every second or so.. it puts about a .4V kick through the lamp that actually makes an audible tick.. but the real problem is that the battery is limiting output for God only knows what reason.. I have pulled over 40A at 26.5V from a v28 battery.. it's outsmarting me some how and a real bummer at this point... as it stands i can only get about 520W out of the v28 battery and the stutters are an issue.. I will look into some other options.. LK already picked up another host for me to use for mine, and i'll probably stuff it with a bunch of NiMH to get a few more mAH than the LiPOs. 

-awr


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## Meduza

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

That is a crazy light... 

What runtime do you expect with Sub-C ?


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## bfg9000

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

awr, if it's being underdriven due to the v28 sagging anyway, it may be worth trying an off-the-shelf 36v Dewalt Li-ion pack and a regulator. Not much overdrive headroom to play with though since that lamp is only rated 25 hours at 28v.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

aiming for 8-9 minutes.. you'd be surprised how long 9 minutes is in 10 second bursts  It was really sad to see how pummeled a 2700 Lumen light like the Mag625 was!

-awr


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## paulr

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

:wow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

I'm still trying to figure out the Q4559x and the 4557 lamps. 

Q4559x - 600 watts and 670,000 centerbean candlepower
4557 - 1000 watts and 540,000 centerbeam candlepower

Does this mean that the 4559x is more of a spot and the 4557 is more of a flood? I can't find any lumen ratings for these. Anyone else have any luck finding the numbers?


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

Andrew, when you get the NMH batterypack figured out (with regulator?), will you consider making some additional packs to sell us? Or maybe give us the spec so we can have one made by CBP or someone else that does this? I've been wanting to do something with the Q4559 or 4557 for a long time but didn't want to get into making a host. I've got a couple of Costco HIDs and would like to mod one with this. Also hoping someone can respond to my question in the post above.

Opps, just realized its not the Costco/HF light, its the cheapee HF spotlight. Guess I'll have to pick one more up. Looks like the 8825 - 1vga for 19.99?


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

i don't remember the model.. they had two.. one has a 12V SLA cell for $30 list (20 on sale) the other is 'plug in 12V' for $16 list'.. on sale on the web for $7.99. 

the orange $20 one looks nicer.. if i had a use for a $13 SLA 4AH gel cell i'd have gotten the orange one.. i wanted mine to be a different color than Larry's anyhow so opted for the gray even if it doesn't look at nice... the orange does look a bit cheezy. 

I'm qute sure i'll be posting my solution for the bat-pack.. most likely it will involve some plates of copper pcb, some 10ga wire or 1/8th inch copper rods and a bunch of 3mm or 2.5mm nuts.. will be pretty easy for somebody to copy-cat... but i might have CBP weld them for me into a pack as well. 

I don't think regulation will be required.. 24 bats will get just about 28V (rated value) to the lamp and when we've been testing the lamp it's been run about 24 to 26V anyhow already is stunnnning. 

it's more of a flood than a spot, but with a spot that is just mind-blowing bright in spite of the monster flood.. well what can you say when you pump on the order of 12,000 L out of the front of an 8" hole... it's flabbergasting to see it in operation.. good clean fun!

-awr


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## Sway

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

Just a hint for making beam shots with the 4559, shoot it a little higher off the ground than you normally would. I found a big difference with "_my camera_" shooting in what I call helicopter style holding the light over your head vs. from waist level.

Nice work guys it looks like a self contained $7.99 spot till *BAM!* 

Later
Kelly


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

OK, took the plunge and bought 2 HF Orange spots, 2 ea. GE Q4559x and 1 GE 4557 lamps. I searched on HF for Spotlights and the return showed this spotlight about 3 or 4 down on pg 1. It showed a price of 19.99 but when I clicked on the spotlight itself, the price on the next page was 14.99. Be sure to buy it from the second pg or it rings up at 19.99.

Found the Q4559x (600 watt Halogen) for 33.44 each and the 4557 (1000 watt) for 40.94.

Now just waiting for some technical info from Andrew once he get the battery pack figured out. This will be fun!


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

If you don't care about the color and have no use for the 5 amp SLA battery, you can buy the same light in gray without the battery for $ 7.99,
ITEM 90247-2VGA


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

I just realized the funny coincidence.. the '12' in the LK12 meant 12 thousand lumens.. and "K" also means thousand.. just a coincidence that K is larry's name... I think i might use that backwards nomenclaure on a future light.. i.e the "K18" if it outputs 18,000L that's kinda cool.


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## FirstDsent

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

I have to admit, I'm unenlightened regarding hotwires, but what is the disadvantage to using 3 9V SLAs in series instead of all those expensive lithiums -space issues notwithstanding? How would the runtime compare?

Bernie


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

SLA come in steps of 6V. a set of five might run from 30V but the batteries would be bigger than the light and certainly heavier.


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## Handlobraesing

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*



andrewwynn said:


> SLA come in steps of 6V. a set of five might run from 30V but the batteries would be bigger than the light and certainly heavier.



600W is right around the wattage of an overhead projector and its gonna definitely need a cooling fan.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

not needed at all.. the heat goes out the front... bat runs out before it's needed


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## mdocod

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

i'm definetally going to have to keep an eye on this project... I'm very interested in a light over 10,000 lumens, just never thought I'd be abel to afford it- sounds like I might be able to afford it afterall.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Budget about $180-200 and it's doable, don't expect it to be $15.99... batteries, charging system, $30 for a bulb, it does add up. 

-awr


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## mdocod

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

$200 isn't bad, considering this thing is probably significantly brighter than any 35-50W HID available, and possibly as bright or brighter than the very expensive 75W options, and probably brighter than a maxabeam...

I just had an idea.... what about the 28V li-ion pack with molicel cells made for milwalkee 28V tools- are those packs regulated in any way? or would they be higher voltage (too high) fresh off the charger? should be goof for about 7-8 minuts i think.


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## cmacclel

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*



mdocod said:


> $200 isn't bad, considering this thing is probably significantly brighter than any 35-50W HID available, and possibly as bright or brighter than the very expensive 75W options, and probably brighter than a maxabeam...
> 
> I just had an idea.... what about the 28V li-ion pack with molicel cells made for milwalkee 28V tools- are those packs regulated in any way? or would they be higher voltage (too high) fresh off the charger? should be goof for about 7-8 minuts i think.




Your talking 20+ amps load. This is only acheivable with High quality Lithium Polymer cells like the Tanic Packs Larry used. I have a few Kokam 3s1p Lithium packs that will do 30amps continously but if you wanted not to push the cells HARD you would need a 2p battery pack.

Mac


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

the molicels blow away the capability of any LiPO pack.. they can output over 30C.. 100A.. however.. trying to run the light from the V28 pack.. voltage limiting is kicking in for God knows what reason and it's only outputting about 24.5V.. 

I have measured over 40A with the V28 pack and it was just getting warmed up.. they are 3AH cells also, which means taking the guts out of a v28 pack would probably get more voltage to the lamp than the 8-up of tanic packs.. with 50% more runtime to boot.. however it does not seem to want to run through the pack electronics for whatever reason.. seems to want an inductive load, or there is some communication going on between battery and tool. 

The V28 packs are also a misnomer to be called that they should be called V25.9 since they are SEVEN CELL not 8 cell packs.. marketing morons.. grrr.

I was thinking of using the v28 molicells but i can get more power from a 24 pack of sub-c's for not much more $

-awr


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

OH.. btw.. in testing.. managed to WELD my 14ga solid copper wire to the spade lug on my power analyzer! It is quite awesome to see that lamp come on.. the v28 doesn't care at all about the 22A draw, but for some reason there was limiting going on.. so it's not a 'direct drive' situation with the V28 pack.. i'm going to get both my packs charged to try in parallel to see if at 12A it'll behave.. i can use two packs if i need to 

-awr


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Mike at CBP indicates that 24 Sub C 4200's will maintain above 1 volt @ a 22 amp draw which should be a partial amp above the theoretical load of the 600 Watt lamp @ 28 volts. 

Can anyone give me the exact inside (usable) dimentions of the battery compartment of the HF spolight in question?

Is there a chance that 24 fresh SubC cells @ approx 33+ volts will blow the Q4559x lamp or will they sag enough to be ok?


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## cmacclel

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Ok learn something new everyday. Whats the details on the v28 pack?? Any links with Info??

Mac


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Mac, check this link out about the cells in the V28,
http://www.molienergy.com/Press Releases/release040117.htm


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Got my 2 Q4559x and 1 4557 lamps today from Skygeek.com. I've never purchased nor seen actual high wattage landing lights before. When i open the shipping box, i noticed right away that the two Q lamp boxes had apparently been opened before and taped shut. Further inspection revealed that the factory GE box was marked Q4559 - without the X. Someone hand wrote the X under the factory part number. Upon opening these boxes, I noticed a white haze/residue on the glass around the terminals on both lamps and the terminal material looked like it had seen very high heat or arcing. I do not have a 28 volt source yet so I can't try them out. These things just look used. The lamps themselves are marked Q4559x.

The 4559 was sealed in the GE box but exhibits the exact same description as above.

Anyone have experiece in buying these GE lamps and by chance, experience with Skygeek.com?


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## FirstDsent

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

This is the flashlight equivalent of the minigun that Jesse Ventura used in the movie Predator

I want one (of each!)
Bernie

P.S. There's no such thing as rechargable ammunition, so aulthough runtime on the minigun is potentially longer, it would cost $tens of thousands to find out. I'll stick with the LK12


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

i'm still teetering back n forth if mine will run from v28cells extracted or use 24 NiMHs... or just made out of the v28 host lamp.. if i can figure out how to disable the ckt that is holding back voltage. 

-awr


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## BVH

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Larry, Andrew, did you have to change out the stock HF light switch?


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Yes, I installed a 35 amp toggle switch. I use the stock switch to turn my battery low voltage warning signal on and off.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

I would (will) use an FET for switching.. the stock switch is probably good for 10A at best. 

-awr


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## FirstDsent

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*



andrewwynn said:


> I would (will) use an FET for switching.. the stock switch is probably good for 10A at best.
> 
> -awr


Awr,
What is a FET? I have seen this switch referenced in your high-po light threads, but I don't get the EE lingo.

Bernie


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## Monolith

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*



FirstDsent said:


> Awr,
> What is a FET? I have seen this switch referenced in your high-po light threads, but I don't get the EE lingo.
> 
> Bernie


Field Effect Transistor


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## FirstDsent

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Well, that gets me half way there. Thank you. What makes the FET better for high-amp use, and what is a common (intended) application for it?

Bernie


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

FET is the electronic equivalent of a relay. it uses a small control voltage to control a large amount of current.. The good ones have less resistance than a switch, and since it's all semi-conductor there are no contacts to get grimely so they are far more reliable.


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## Starlight

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

I purchased my Q4559x from stagelightswarehouse.com. The cost was $45.30 including shipping. The bulb came in a sealed factory box and was obviously new. The problem was that they sent the wrong bulb, a 4559 instead of the Q4559x. I called them about the mistake. They shipped the correct bulb the following day and told me to keep the 4559 for my trouble. The 4559 will also work in this light, it is slightly less bright and has lower rated life, but it is nice to have a spare. Needless to say, I recommend them for your supplies for any bulbs.


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## larryk

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Starlight, how does the beam compare between the 2 lamps ? Does the Q4559X have a tighter spot ? Also does the Q4559X have the metal shield around the filament like the 4559 ?


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## Starlight

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

I will let you know when everything arrives. I am in the buying stage, not the building stage. I don't even have the light in hand yet, and won't decide about buying batteries until I can measure the light.


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12" 12,000 torch lumens*

Larry was not happy with the torture he was putting on the 8S1P pack.. pulling 23A out of a pack the size of kid's juice box... so he doubled it up to an 8S2P pack.. that not being good enough he also swapped the lamp for a 'QX' model that outputs like 20-25% more light.. holy COW that thing is ludcirous now.. the beam is more 'floody' perhaps.. at least not as round and definied of a hot-spot.. we will have to get some outdoor beamshots. 

With the 2P pack, now rather than sagging to 26.5V under load, it holds 30V initially and after 1/2 minute was still holding 29.5V.. so some overdrive to boot.. it's insanely white and bright now. 

I've figured out most likely how to disable the current limiting going on on my V25.9 pack and will attempt to put in the switch that will keep the FETs ON so it stops the madness.. my light will not be as bright but it sure will be SMALLER.. i'm planning to just attach the lamp to the bezel of my v28 work light.. so it'll just have a really big head on a stalk. I also have one of the grey versions of the spotlight as a backup in-case that doesn't work out.

-awr


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## missionaryman

beamshots...


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## andrewwynn

dying to get beamshots it'll probably be at least another week before we can pull off a nice beamshot demo. 

-awr


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## BVH

Andrew is this 8S2P pack something commercially available or is it custome made by someone or?? Does it fit inside the light completely?

I've got all my parts except for deciding what I want to do with a batt pack.


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## andrewwynn

of course fits inside completely... the main point for larry was to make it self contained vs 'the sleeper'.. 

the 8S2P pack is made from 8 packs of 7.2V Tanic barrery packs.. about $320 in cells.. i am looking to use 24xIB3800 sub C.. closer to $150.

-awr


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## BVH

Andrew, did you consider the CBP 4200 Sub C's? Thats what I was thinking of and am thinking of sending my stripped HF shell to Michael at CBP to have one sized and made, if they will fit.


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## BVH

Deleted.


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## elnino

Any updates? How about outdoor beamshots? Thx.


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## andrewwynn

hoping for this weekend.


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## elnino

Beamshots??? Updates???


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## larryk

It has been raining the last 2 weekends here in Wisconsin. Hopefully next weekend the weather will cooperate. We will try to get beam shots with known lights like the X990, 10 Million Candlepower Thor, Cosco HID and maybe a MaxaBeam.


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## tdurand

I'll bring a barn burner for a comparison shot when I get mine.
Let me know. I'm nearby you guys.


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## larryk

tdurand said:


> I'll bring a barn burner for a comparison shot when I get mine.
> Let me know. I'm nearby you guys.



I have a BarnBurner on order also, it will be an interesting comparison.


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## missionaryman

I just so want to be there!!!

you guys have to take lots of photos for the rest of us.


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## andrewwynn

yes you do! the LK12 is insane, even though it's really the LK14 or 16.. though i do like the beam from the original lamp better (more round spot).. it's an absolutely insane flashight. 

-awr


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## NikolaTesla

I seen this light run. We went out to do beam shots one night.

That thing is a Killer. Smokes'm all. X990 run and hide. 

LarryK made a beauty of a complete package.:goodjob: 

I do not impress easily but in this case,:wow: :wow: :wow:


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## elnino

What exactly makes an LK12 an LK14 (or LK16)? Is it just the batteries or is it the batteries and the bulb? Thanks.


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## larryk

Thanks for the kind words NikolaTesla, hope to see you on Sat.
elnino, I doubled up on the batteries so now instead of being slightly under driven, it is getting slightly overdriven by about 1.5 volts. I also changed to the Q4559X Halogen filled Lamp that is 25% brighter at the cost of a less desirable beam.


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## andrewwynn

Well it was a combo of the $9 host, the lamp that is a very common aircraft landing light and a set of batteries that will generate 28.8V. 

Larry discovered how perfect the lamp fit the host and pieced it together, so i named it in his honor. 

-awr


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## elnino

I understand that part. I just put one together with the help of Starlight. I am using the Q4559X lamp with 24 SC NiMH 3600mAh batteries. So hot off the charger, would I have an LK12 or LK14? Is there anyway to know without having a light meter? Just curious.


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## andrewwynn

the LK14 uses the 'X' lamp.. so you have the LK14. 

-awr


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## larryk

Beamshots were going to be Sat. night, guess what, rained out again.


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## DFiorentino

Can I post "Jeers to Rain"  

:lolsign: 
-DF


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## andrewwynn

ok.. finally got some beamshots.. wasn't exactly planned so we only got the 'big bulb'.. but we got some nice comparisons.. 

here is the album






Beamshot to 400' with LarryK in the foreground.. notice how the light itself glows bright orange.. it's a sight to see! Good job of standing still btw Larry.. that's a 2.5 sec exposure!









That's the X990 on the left.. the LarryK14 on the right.. unretouched photos!

look at the album to see the other lights.. including the Maxabeam and more.

-awr


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## Delvance

Mhmm light...Thanks for sharing!

I'll have to build something like this soon hrmm...


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## CroMAGnet

*























Nice Package LarryK!!
*​


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## missionaryman

now _that_ would make an interesting cycle light, I wonder if twofish have a mount for it...


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## andrewwynn

it's actually reasonably light.. it would not be hard to mount on handlebars.. you could just bolt on 2-3 of the typical bike mounts and go. 

Enough light for about 1.3miles of riding! 

-awr


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## DFiorentino

CroMAGnet said:


> *Nice Package LarryK!!
> *​



:eeew: 

 
-DF


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## CroMAGnet

DFiorentino said:


> :eeew:
> 
> 
> -DF





















LOL​


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## loalight

holy fracking cow, nice one!


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## andrewwynn

loalight said:


> holy fracking cow, nice one!



That is nearly the universal 'first words' when somebody sees the larryk14 turned on the first time. It is so stunningly overwhelming compared to anything else.. not even 2 35W HID AND a maxabeam at the same time can compete with it... 

you can literally light up a tree line from 600' away that a Mag100 can barely do at 150'. 

Now i'm getting really excited to get the oscarbeam built.. 90,000L.. it'll make the LK14 look like a maglite. 

-awr


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## mdocod

those beamshots make me want to cry- I now have a slightly modified thor, and the amondotech (3152)... both of them blow me away every time I turn them on- but those beamshots suggest that these instruments are mere toys in comparison with a landing light!!!

Those beamshots are beautifully done!! Great work!!! thankyou for sharing! I'm in awww


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## missionaryman

when will it ever stop...

I think it would be a good idea if someone made a simple but durable housing for the larryk14 so you can get some more run time happening.



andrewwynn said:


> That is nearly the universal 'first words' when somebody sees the larryk14 turned on the first time. It is so stunningly overwhelming compared to anything else.. not even 2 35W HID AND a maxabeam at the same time can compete with it...
> 
> you can literally light up a tree line from 600' away that a Mag100 can barely do at 150'.
> 
> Now i'm getting really excited to get the oscarbeam built.. 90,000L.. it'll make the LK14 look like a maglite.
> 
> -awr


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## andrewwynn

actually.. there is quite easily enough room for double the battery pack that larry has in his.. you'd have to be creative to use the space behind the lamp.. but the price excalates pretty quickly.. larry has about $250 battery in his light. 

The reality.. we were out for about an hour.. used the light as much as we wanted.. didn't run the battery out.. it really is a 'burst mode' flashlight.. have a low power light like a mag100 around for longer burns and this thing for the 'holy caaarap'' shot. The housing LK found is a total gimme for this mod.. it's a really nice compact size. 

mcocod.. click on the next page over on the site.. 'Hots'.. if you want to see me cry.. those are the 100W class lights and a 25 and 35W light. 

The last page shows the head-to-head.. where the amondotech AND the X990 both lit up the same tree and the K14 just smokes them both at once!

-awr


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## missionaryman

but wont it melt or warp the plastic host if runs for any longer than what it currently can?


----------



## andrewwynn

actually the first tests were with one of just just holding the lamp in our hands.. a solid minute of runtime doesn't get the lamp even 'warm' on the back.. it's stunning actually how little heat goes out the back. Not sure what kind of runtime would start to cause a problem


----------



## iamerror

The outdoor shot really shows you how bright that light is. That is simply amazing, especially considering the size to brightness ratio!


----------



## andrewwynn

we are thinking that for a self-contained hand-held light.. there is nothing with more lumen per volume.. it really is in a class by itself. I think there was the 'sleeper' is it.. not sure if it holes 29.5V under load though.. the LK14 really is insanely bright.. and absolutely fun.. Larry just told me today that even after a month of having it running.. that every single time he turns it on it makes him smile.. how could it be any other way? 

-awr


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## missionaryman

the larryk12/14 has got me thinking, next year we will be taking a team into the Papua region higlands only accessible by dug out canoe on croc infested rivers.
We have a little Honda EU10i 240v generator, could I build someting similarly powerful to mount at the front of the canoe running straight from the generator?


----------



## andrewwynn

i would start a little more efficient maybe.. 600W will cost a LOT in fuel to run from a generator.. it would be nice to have the likes of 50-100W headlamp but with the LK12 for really lighting up the dark when you really need it. 

-awr


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## mtbkndad

andrewwynn said:


> we are thinking that for a self-contained hand-held light.. there is nothing with more lumen per volume.. it really is in a class by itself. I think there was the 'sleeper' is it.. not sure if it holes 29.5V under load though.. the LK14 really is insanely bright.. and absolutely fun.. Larry just told me today that even after a month of having it running.. that every single time he turns it on it makes him smile.. how could it be any other way?
> 
> -awr




I think the Ken 4 may beat the LarryK in the lumen per volume department.
I believe it has a 400 Watt bulb in a Vector body. I do not know how over driven it is. 
See the yellow light in the link below.
When I saw it in use it did not have a full charge and all I could think was, "that much light should not be able to come out of something so small".
Click on the link below and then click on "HID Lights 2" to see a picture of the little yellow Ken 4.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenshiro2/


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## andrewwynn

400:14000 is a 35:1 ratio.. estimate os about 12:1 ratio of volume between the two... sure that light is only 400L ?


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## AW

These 10AH LiIon batteries will handle up to 30A draw. With the super low internal resistance of < 10 mohm each cell, they rocks. For such a high drain application, the less no. of cells involved, the less chance of imbalance discharge problem and lower resistance from cells and contact points. There are even 20AH cells in the same form factor available. All with PTC protection built-in.


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## andrewwynn

gimme gimme gimme!

:-D


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## DFiorentino

Yeah, what AWR said...gimme!  

I could use a dozen+ of them.  

-DF


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## andrewwynn

that would likely be a 4-digit invoice. Those are not going to be cheap.


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## DFiorentino

Yeah, kind of figured that they were out of my reach. But I could still use a dozen of them  .

-DF


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## andrewwynn

couldn't we all :-D I did pick up like 20+ of the LiON D cells.. i 'just knew' i'd find a use for them all.. turns out that 5 of them will work great with the osram IRC lamps.. and at 18V they are like 35% more efficient than the 100W lamps at 13V.. means yeah a big light.. but my 625 lamp will output 2700L for about 26 minutes in a 4D host (4 LiON D).. but the IRC50 lamp will output 2700L for FIFTY minutes in a 5D host. Maybe i'll make a 4D host that holds 5 cells to shrink the size a bit. 

-awr


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## mtbkndad

andrewwynn said:


> 400:14000 is a 35:1 ratio.. estimate os about 12:1 ratio of volume between the two... sure that light is only 400L ?



That was a typo. It is a 400 Watt bulb.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## andrewwynn

nice! yeah i'd like to see that! i knew that was a typo, but didn't know if it was 4000L or what.. self contained? what kind of runtime? 

-awr


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## mtbkndad

Self contained, yes.
Runtime, not bad for what it is but I will need to ask Kenshiro.
I was just looking at my photos of a not fully charged Ken 4 and the Barn Burner.
There is just no comparison.
The Barn Burner will have no chance against a LarryK light.
At least not for the first 8 or 10 minutes  .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## andrewwynn

i am working on a 10 or 20AH solution for the LK14.. my personal LK might be the "LK10" 'cause i'm trying to run it from a single 'v28' battery which really is a 'v26' battery.. for size and simplicity considerations... it'll be 1/3 the size of the LK light.. simply a upright stalk flashlight.. like drill lantern but with an 8" bezel vs 2.5" bezel. 

here is the album






Here is the 7AH LiON solution i'm hoping to fit in there.

-awr


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## andrewwynn

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

found a nicer looking host to make mine:






In addition.. i figured out how to jam-pack 24xD NiMH 10A cells in the beast.. good to have computer models of things :-D.. estimated runtime is going to bump from 8-9 to 24 minutes! It'll be heavier than a jug of milk compared to larry's 'feels empty'.. but i can add a cell or two to get the voltage bumped up if i have to as well. 

In addition.. i'm working on something very sneaky.. let's just say.. there is a chance the LK might have to be renamed once again.

-awr


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## Pila_Power

*Re: The "LarryK12"*

sneaky, sneaky... I wonder... 

Hey AWR, I have a 5D [email protected] that is only running a trilux combo...

Maybe in the future I'll come bug you to trick it out with your latest gizmos, eh? 

I'm happy to be a high-power guinea pig!


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## elnino

What brand of host are you using? It looks much nicer than the grey and orange hosts from Harbor Freight. And what about the build quality? Is it along the lines (cheap) as the HF models? Thanks.


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## elnino

I am currently using 3 NiMH Battery Packs, 9.6V, 3600mAH AIRSOFT in my LarryK12. Would using 2 of the following packs be an upgrade or not:

PolyQuest 12C-16c Burst 4S (14.8 volts) lipo battery with taps. Bare leads
100N 4s -- $79.95
14.8V 3100mAh (4 cells) 
Rating: 12C (37.2A) continuous, 16C (49.6A) burst
Dimension: 125mm x 45mm x 28mm 
Weight: 275 grams 
Termination: Wire leads & Multi-Connector


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## andrewwynn

elnino.. harbor freight also.. just do a search for 'spotlight' on their website it'll show up on the first page. 

I didn't get it yet.. we are concerned that the bezel size isn't the same, so dont' order a copy 'til i get mine and know the answer.

Larry might know better than me about the LiPO packs.. it sounds like a very simliar pack to what Larry is using.. but it would take 4 of them to make 8S2P.. but.. hmm.. that's a bigger pack than larry's.. 3.1AH.. you could get away with 8S1P.. I doubt you'd have much advantage over the 3.6AH pack you have now... it wouldn't be worth the effort IMHO. 

Hey where'd you get those 3.6 packs.. i might be interested in using the same. 


-awr


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## elnino

Four packs??? I think I'll stick with the NiMH cells. I bought the three 9.6V packs from amondotech.com (thanks to Starlight!). Cheap Battery Packs has the LiPo packs.


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## andrewwynn

OK.. the host came in.. it's incredible! sooo much nicer than the original host for the LK.. it has much thicket glass.. rubber boot round the lens.. 

I am going to let a small cat out of the bag.. my version.. will have a reflector and bulb solution not the 'big ACL' bulb like larry's.. so i can try different bulbs.. but more importantly.. have a pinpoint of light to have an improved spot.. i want the 'white laser' effect like maxabeam but with 12x the output.. there will still be palenty of flood light. 

I think that you could probably actually use the stock reflector but it's got a goofly flat bottom vs being complete parabola so i bought a replacement PAR64 reflector. 

more to come.

-awr


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## Sway

andrewwynn said:


> i want the 'white laser' effect like maxabeam but with 12x the output.. there will still be palenty of flood light.



Now you and I have came full circle, went through this several years ago and settled on HID because of the efficiency and light source size......I’m curious to see what you come up with :thumbsup:

Later
Kelly


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## andrewwynn

yeah HID is hands-down the winner for any practical light.. the LK14.. definitely not practical, but it's absolutely the most fun of any light i've seen. 

Got the reflectors in but sadly they are designed to be a 'flood' reflector.. they are a nice parabola it seems.. but not plated or even very shiny.. so.. work is involved i have to polish and possibly plate the reflector to get the 'punch' i'm aiming for.. though i will try it with the 'frosted' reflector to see what the beam looks like. 

When talking about 20,000 bulb lumen or so.. i might not mind some frosting in the reflector to smooth out the beam.. but will have to polish/plate to get it to be the 'zinger' that i'm aiming for (like your icon). 

the self-contained aspect of the LK14 is really incredible.. and with larry's version with the LiPos.. it feels empty.. it's quite a stunner.

-awr


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## Sway

20K L.......that’s a lot of filament to bring in line, have you thought about a smaller reflector inside the main reflector to focus some of the spill back to the main focal point. It’s a little more (well a lot more) than my gray matter can work out but secondary recoil set up would kill some of the flood/spill and focus it back to the beam.

I played around with the Blitz using cardboard circles of various sizes from 2” to 4” placed in the center of the lens, I don’t recall what gave the best results but I was able to kill a lot of the spill without effecting the throw very much making the beam “MaxaBeamish” in appearance. 

If you can find a way to harness lost lumens it will be a killer set up 

Later
Kelly


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## andrewwynn

I *really* like that idea.. the reflector is really quite shallow.. i'll have to make a spreadsheet like i did for the 11mm reflectors.. to see where the light is going.. thanks a LOT for the suggestion. 

I know that in the 'grand opening' type of lights they use a cylinder around the lamp to prevent side spill.. i'm guessing.. that it might just block the flood more than re-direct it.. but it will definitel get that pencil beam look doing that.. so maybe i'll have a couple 'modes' by swapping shields.. one that blocks the spill for a lower lumen but more contrast solution and the other like you suggest.. bouncing the spill light back into the reflector.. my guess.. is that the right curve.. will re-focus the light properly to get it back into line.. just need to figure out what that curve is.. 

If i can knock this design out of the park i will likely make a small run of them.. maybe like 10 or something.. it's absolutely hands down the most fun of any light i've used.. obviously you know what i'm talking about.. 

Remind me what light is in your avatar.. it's such an awesome picture! 

-awr


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## andrewwynn

OK.. 'first test' with the new reflector.. and HELLS BELLS it's nice.. it's a pretty broad beam but much to my liking.. a nearly perfect circular spot.. about 9 degrees estimated (25' diam at 160').. I don't have my battery pack yet so i was 'cheating'.. i have a 600W 120V lamp and the reflector comes with plugs just like 120V wall outlet so i just used an extension cord.. i lit up the typical tree i use for my beamshots outside and it made the entire plume of the tree 'daylight'.. 

The beam is just absolutely fantastic.. nearly perfect symmetry.. i think i might just keep one of the reflectors as-is for the 'flood' mode.. it will absolutely be good for a working distance of 700-1000' so i can't wait to get it out to the big field i usually use for beamshots. I have the spreadsheet designed to try to get some ideas for that bounce-back to harvest some of the flood.. with the estimated flood angle of nearly 90°.. there is a lot more light to harvest that is not getting collected by the reflector!

OK.. i have the spreadsheet done... 

could it really be this easy? 






here is the cross-section of the reflector in the LK14.. the lamp is approximated by the lamp-like shape in the middle with the filament center represented by the cross hair.. the two angles coming out of the cross-hair represent the effective 'spot' reflected light.. 

The bottom of the reflector for about 1 3/4 inch is 'flat bottom'.. so it's not going to be focused light so this is my theory.. 

put a spherical reflector.. with a 1" radius, but that is about 1 7/8" diameter with it's focus on the filament.. This is of course represented by the magenta curve.

theory of operation.. as you can see.. on the right edge of the magenta curve.. it 'clips' the light that would leave the main reflector.. since it's a sphere.. the light goes right back at the filament.. it will either go past the filament and directly out the other side.. appearing to the main reflector on the opposite side as coming directly from the filament.. 

The main problem with this proposal.. is that the light directly across from the 'flat bottom'.. will get a bit jumbled.. it will bounce off the bottom flat spot on the reflector and become flood as it sneaks out between the sphere and the main reflector.. it might make for a bizarre situation where there is a brighter flood out at 60° than at 20°.. .. so.. to counter that effect i'm thinking of cutting a hole in the top of the sphere.. which might make for easier lamp replacement to boot. 

I'm thinking that i'll be able to make a holder for the sphere by using standoffs vs screws to hold the ceramic socket down and attaching some threaded rod or such into the standoffs. 

Soooo.. anybody know where i can get some hemispherical mirrors made out of metal that i can cut down to size? 

This project has taken a very interesting turn i have to say. 

The filament size on the 400W lamp i'm planning to use is very simliar in size to the DYS lamp i have right now.. but it is a tighter winding on the 400W i believe so hopefully a bit tighter spot, not that i'm particularly worried.. the amt of spot diversion could also be that the filament on the test lamp wasn't at the focus of the parabola.. so i will be working on a way to fine-tune the height to get it into perfect focus. 

So.. very happy that the 'soft finish' has at least a usable beam.. i will be polishing the snot out of the other reflector to do a test.. and that one i'll work on incorporating the flood reducing sphere!

Thanks for the suggestion Sway! i might not have considered that basic idea for a while!

-awr

ps.. warm up for oscarbeam.. I have about 80% of the parts i need already.. pretty much just need the igniter and i'm good. so.. it'll put the 20,000L of the LK14 to shame.. with 90,000L.. and a smaller filament.. but i don't have a parabolic reflector rather an elliptical one.. so i can't get a pencil focus (not that it matters with 200,000,000 lux).. but the elliptical reflector does lend itself to a very interesting experiment.. 'portable death ray'.. i did the math to figure out that if the arc is in perfect focus on the reflector.. that the other focus of the ellipse (about 4-5' away).. will have about 1300W of energy in less than a square centimeter. 

Consider how fast a 1300W microwave cooks when that energy is spread out over many 100s if not 1000s of cm.. what that means for the oscarbeam should it be focused precisely! My guess... burning holes in 1/2" plywood should not be a challenge. 

-awr


----------



## Sway

Andrew very nice work with the double reflector set up, it’s a hair brain idea I came up with working with the Osram 64535 “Bird Cooker” several years ago trying to think of a way to eliminate some of the spill to achieve better contrast as you put it. The 15K to 20K lumen lamps have so much spill and back scatter it kills your night adapted eyes making it that much harder to see things at a distance. The spot is there but the flood of light makes it more difficult to see, this is where the Maxa Beam excels and gets by with such little power, no back scatter to look through so yours eyes get a boost and that part is *FREE* sometimes less is more 

After seeing I couldn’t achieve what I wanted with big incans in 7 ‘to 9’ reflectors I switched to HID and things got much better, the light source is much smaller but you have the ballast and igniter to work around but it runs much cooler (less IR) and you can put spill blockers on the lens for simple test and not worry about it going up in flames.

Eh’ I don’t know if the efficiency gain would be worth the work it’s a mathematical nightmare but if a simple way can be found to collect some of the lost lumens and focused back instead of just blocking them to bounce out at random it may be worth while, the idea is a folly 

My avatar pic is of the 35/50 HID LightForce Blitz

Later
Kelly


----------



## andrewwynn

The LK14 actually IMHO is meant to be a 'megaflood'.. but from a spotlight perspective 10 deg. beam is 'flood' i won't mind tossing all the flood if necessary and that's a cake-walk.. just use a can around the reflector and drop it down 'til it blocks the flood.. just like they use in the night-beam 'grand opening' type lights.

If i can use a spherical reflector and bounce that light back past the filament so it comes right back out where it's supposed to.. more power too me. 

(basically that is the answer to most of the mathematical nightmare).. oh.. yikes i just thought of what is needed to get the rest of the lost lumen.. it's not that bad.. 

I need a hole in the spherical dome that lets out any of the light that if it were reflected would be just bounced back into the flat on the bottom anyhow.. then i need a LENS on the outside of the sphere to collimate the light that wants to be flood. 

In addition.. since i don't need such a big 'ream' for this solution.. i could use another spherical reflector below the lamp.. to reflect any light that would be going into the useless 'flat' down below.. and reflect it back up through the hole into the optic.. hmmm.. this is really getting interesting now. 

This is why i wanted to use the reflector/lamp solution.. gives me the options of tweaking.. it's so very hard to tweak a sealed beam light. 

'first test' went exceptionally well.. i was inside but i did also send a beam out to my favorite spotting tree about 160' away.. that spot was very big.. like 25' diameter.. but holy crap it was bright. 

I'll have a tester worked out next week with the 400W 36V solution.. the 'final assembly' I'm aiming for just shy of 40V overdrive on the 400W lamp.. the math works out pretty substantial.

I was hoping to over drive by 3 cells.. 39.6V.. but with an UNCANNY CCT of 3550.. that pretty much means i'm pushing the melting point on the filament even at base voltage.. I'm thinking of using an old DC motor concept and using a 'starting resistor' to warm up the filament.. my HD won't run over about 30V so i can't use that :-(

with 3 cell overdrive (14%).. the math works out to 21.7/14.1 k lumen.. and it *says* it's 17.7 hours so it's feasable.. but i know better.. when the CCT is that high forget about that much overdrive.. 

The max i can reliably use the 64625 is at 12.7V or so.. and that is 9% over drive.. so let me re-work with 9% over drive: 

with 2-cell over drive (32 cells).. it will be about 19.4/12.6 klumen.. but the filament size is reasonably small for such tremendous lumen.. and it is white white WHITE!.. so it'll be a fun light even if it's only 90% of the total light of the LK14.. and even if the spot is slightly broader.. i will have more spill control and i think i'll have a much cleaner spot.. we of course will do a head-to head asap. 

I'm kinda thinking i'll want to have one of each of the LKs.. spot and flood.. the beam is absolutely stunning with the 'soft finish' reflector. 

It will be kind of neat working on this project it's kind of a mini version of the oscarbeam.. maybe i'll be able to get more of the light harnessed in the OB with techniques learned with this light. 

ok.. i've updated the reflector cross-section to include what i'm talking about:






Ok.. first the easy stuff.. the hemispherical reflector.. catches light trying to escape as flood.. represented by the thick red line.. it's a spherical reflector with the focus set at the filament.. so the light goes right back to the filament.. counting on some slight misalignment and chaos to help me out here that the light will go past /through the filament and will appear as new light coming from the filament and will simply hit the reflector as shown by the red line and exit parallel to the light's main axis. 

Now.. a bit trickier.. on the bottom.. another partial spherical reflector (magenta).. to collect light trying to hit the flat bottom.. likewise it will bounce back up past the filament.. this time.. there is a hole in the top of the spherical reflector at the top... and there is a lens just outside the sphere.. that is set with its focus at the filament.. so that light that hits it from the filament or bounced back from the other side of the filament will be bent back toward the centerline axis .. 

i'm thinking based on the size of the bottom reflector i won't bother.. although if you follow where that light will go that hits the bottom.. it will become flood light as it bounces out past the upper spherical reflector. 

So.. i needs to finds me a spherical reflector.. well 3/8ths of a sphere anyhow.. that is very close to 1" radius.. any ideas folks? 

it would have to be the likes of steel or aluminum but brass etc would be ok as long as i can polish the snot out of it.. brass might add a tinge of warmer light which might be nice for outdoor use. 

So.. i'm thinking.. 

phase 1: straight up stock reflector. 
phase 2: polish the crap out of the reflector since it's got a satin finish now
phase 3: upper dome, but complete, without the hole.. get rid of the flood at the cost of lumen totals (increase the contrast and effective throw). 
phase 4: cut the hole in the top of the top reflector. (run without the lens at first.. to see if the added flood is a problem or nicer.
phase 5: if the added flood sucks.. add in the lens to focus that flood light back into the main spot beam. 
phase 6: if phase 4&5 show no worthy improvement, go back to phase 3. 

Thanks again, Sway for the input.. I love HID for what it is.. but this is a different monster altogether.. i want 'instant on' 'holy bajeezes what the hell is that' in a self-contained solution. 

The latest calculations estimate a 15 minute runtime which is NOT BAD AT ALL! 

ok.. off to find a sphere and a lens. (that part will be much easier). 

-awr


----------



## megadiy

Hello all-
I tried to do something with this bulb a while back, but it was the housing that stopped me. Kudos to Larry for finding a cheap solution.

For everyone out there, I offer the following:

Q4559X Bulb, $33.44 (100 hour run time, higher output than the 4559)
http://stylespilotshop.stores.yahoo.net/gesealbeamqu1.html

6V 7AH SLA (Hook up 5 and get moderate run time): $7.95 each
http://batteryconnection.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BCI&Product_Code=PS-670

Or:

6v 12AH SLA: $9.95 each http://batteryconnection.com/Mercha...en=PROD&Store_Code=BCI&Product_Code=PS-6100F1

For a cheap battery box, use an old ammo can. You can connect the bulb to the battery through a hole, or actually use a connector. You can get a large enough can to allow a little circuitry (relay, charge controller), put shoulder straps on it and you are ready to go with a mobile light cannon.

I know that this isn't quite as cool as a self contained version, but this version is MUCH CHEAPER ($40-$50 in batteries VS. $150-$200), and it will give you a lot longer run time (not sure how much....) and the battery pack would still only weigh about 25 lbs.

About the Q4559X: I read that you can overdrive them by 10%, and increase light output by 40%, only reducing the life by 66% (still higher than the original 4559 25 hour life)

I will attemp to get this built this summer, pending the wife's approval.....


----------



## megadiy

Hello Again,
With a little more research, I found a better source for batteries:
Batterymart.com, their shipping costs are much lower than battery connection, it can save you around $10-$15.


----------



## NikolaTesla

I can't wait any longer to see this blaster....


----------



## v8killerturbo4

hmmm, For us guys that off road a lot and are flashaholics, is it possible to use a DC to DC 12v to 28v converter and mount these babies in some KC light housings? That would be very nice!


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I've realized something disturbing, but in a good way. I was amazed at the K12/14, just amazed. However, at the mention of an "oscarbeam" with 90,000 lumens made me forget about the K12/14. I wonder what I'll think of the oscarbeam when an even more powerful light is created...


----------



## andrewwynn

to run the likes of LK14 continuously.. electronic conversion is not practical.. 

pulling on the order of 22A at 28V = 55-57A from the 12V source...

However.. of course we've already thought of this.. the solution is a 28VDC belt-driven generator.. just like an alternator you would mount on your engine with a v-belt. 

OB will be absolutely ludicrous.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Just read about the oscarbeam, by the way. Whoah...

Could you give us an update as to the status of the most recent version of the LarryK12/14/etc.?

If it's not too horrendously difficult (i.e. involving milling, soldering, drilling, etc.), I'd like to try one of these. It seems like it's basically a cheap host light, a kick-butt bulb, and lots of cells.

How is the custom reflector going? The designs to improve throw were looking pretty good.

Is anyone even working on this anymore, or are all eyes on (or as close as possible to, at any rate!) the oscarbeam?


----------



## andrewwynn

I have two LK14s in production right now.. they are a different 'take' on the project.. they are going to use the osram 400W lamp in a parabolic 8" reflector. I'm going to have one polished one that is not polished for a flood beam.. i've tested the non-polished one with a 600W DYS lamp and it's just incredible.. a much nicer beam than the LK14 with the landing light. It probably won't have as many lumens... mine will probably be more like an LK12 or even LK 11.. but with a nearly perfectly round spot.. 

Once i have the basic model working i'm planning to improve the design to include the small spherical reflector to reduce the amount of flood and increase the amount of spot... there will still be plenty of flood no doubt. 

it is not difficult at all to make an LK14.. i think starlight made one and several others.. read the thread for ideas.. somebody has suggested using a trio of 9.6V pre-fab packs... and you can use a 30A switch you can probably find at an auto parts store.. that's the key ingredient.. you need to use a high-current switch or FET. 

hands down the LK is the most fun light to run of ever.. you absolutely can't avoid laughing out loud the first time you see it.. 

Go to this page and hit the 'start slideshow'.. click one at a time 'til the end.. most people laugh out loud just to see the slide show.. realize.. that the X990 is a $500 spotlight and the Maxabeam is a $2000 spotlight! 

Oscarbeam is likely still months away.. i don't think we can get it done by sept.. too bad 'cause laborday is the best day for testing out lights for me.. but at least this laborday i'll have several lights that can start the campfire.. and if NikolaTelsa can come with again.. we can have our maxabeam wars again.. and hopefully both the LKs will be operational by then. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Awesome slideshow! I actually did laugh out loud.

Unfortunately, I'm still pretty lost. Where would I find which bulb, where would I find what kind of batteries, how would I put the batteries together, where would I get what kind of switch...

I like AW's idea of the 20AH LiIon batteries and also your idea of 24 D NiMHs.

If you plan on making more than one of those spherical secondary reflectors, what kind of cost do you forsee? How would it be installed?


----------



## andrewwynn

eBay is a good source for the lamps.. i believe member starlight has one of the 'QX' models he'd sell 'cause he prefers the non-qx.. i liked the more light and more flood of the qx model (ironic since i'm working on a 'more spot' solution with the 400W osram lamp. 

I tried to model options with the big LION cells.. not feasible for LK14. 

i haven't found any source for 2" spheres yet.. i would probably build a wire frame to hold it in place or use some mounting mechanism that holds it to the lens. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I got some 12-gauge wire and a switch. I'll see if I can pick up wire nuts next week.

After I brought home the switch, I noticed that it's only 12V and 30A, which is 360W. The lamp is 600W, so I suppose I need to look for a switch that can handle around 30V and 20A, right?

The rest should be easy - bulb from Starlight, housing from Harbor Freight, batteries and charger from AmondoTech. After that, all I do is build!

I got the switch at Kragen. I asked if they had switches for more power, but they said that the one I picked out was pretty standard. Any ideas?


----------



## andrewwynn

the ratings of switches are not the wattage.. they are the extremes of each.. however in the case you described.. the 12V rating is too low.. it is possible for an arc to form and the switch won't open (turn off).. the voltage rating means how many volts can it safely interrupt.. the current rating is the max continuous current.

it's not an easy thing to find a 30V, 30A switch.. they are quite a monster, it's not a normal thing to switch at all.. what you might look for is either an FET solution which is what i will use or a relay that can handle 30A and runs from something like 12 or 24V (you just wire up to 1/2 the pack or xx cells to get the voltage for the FET gate or the relay pickup). 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

andrewwynn said:


> the ratings of switches are not the wattage.. they are the extremes of each.. however in the case you described.. the 12V rating is too low.. it is possible for an arc to form and the switch won't open (turn off).. the voltage rating means how many volts can it safely interrupt.. the current rating is the max continuous current.
> 
> it's not an easy thing to find a 30V, 30A switch.. they are quite a monster, it's not a normal thing to switch at all.. what you might look for is either an FET solution which is what i will use or a relay that can handle 30A and runs from something like 12 or 24V (you just wire up to 1/2 the pack or xx cells to get the voltage for the FET gate or the relay pickup).
> 
> -awr


:huh2:

Say again?

I think what might be helpful is a link to where I can buy these things. That would likely get me a picture, feature list, etc.

Thanks so much!


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I just got an idea. When you read it, though, please keep in mind that there are no stupid questions (only stupid people  ).

Would it be possible to get two more of these switches and wire them in series? I'm thinking of a straight wire path that goes through all three switches, one after the other, and needs all three to be activated for the light to turn on?

Would that work, or would it just put a 30V 30A load on each of the three switches, making the situation three times worse?


----------



## Starlight

I am using a 12v, 30 amp switch on my Larry 12K right now. I realize that it is underrated, but it has worked fine so far on over 100 cycles.

No, 3 switches in series will not help. Each time you activate one, it takes the full current surge. You are just making the problem 3 times worse.

If you are really concerned, the auto parts stores have 12v, 50 amp switches, which would be closer to rated load.


----------



## andrewwynn

well there ya hear it.. i thought i remembered starlight doing just that.. so.. my advice.. as a precaution against the only bad thing that can really happen.. put in a fuse with one of the barrel type holders (not inline).. and have the fuse assessable from the outside (that's how the original larryk does it).

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Would this switch (12V 50A) be okay? I'll be going to Kragen's on Monday for wire nuts, so I can exchange my 30A switch for the 50A then.


----------



## andrewwynn

that'll do it just fine. I would still put in a fuse just-in-case! 

OH.. btw.. found out something very interesting.. looks like i can get the hotdriver to work for the LK's i'm building.. it's at the absolute limit so i'll probably use a very similar trick i used with the fatman.. since the vBat will be on the order of 2V over the max no-load.. but with the right FET.. the lower voltage LKs could use hotdriver for sure.. needs a big heat-sinked FET though.. but means can get away with continuous overdrive of the lamp for more output!

-awr


----------



## NikolaTesla

Whens mine ready? Call!:touche:


----------



## TigerhawkT3

So, I'm planning on getting three 50A switches to connect the battery packs (instead of using wire nuts). This way, to charge, I can remove the LA and batteries, turn OFF the switches, and use Alin10123's charger by connecting the alligator clips to the proper wires/terminals. The deactivated switches should electrically isolate the packs from one another.

...Right?


----------



## andrewwynn

you don't need to disconnect anything to charge.. each charger will have an isolated pos. and negative.. that's the beauty of ungrounded AC stuff!.. you can hook up all three chargers at the same time and BTW.. exactly what i'm planning.. i will install three charge jacks.. and i can charge one group at a time or all three at the same time if i have 3 chargers... i would of course triple check on the isolation but it pretty much has to be that way. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

andrewwynn said:


> you don't need to disconnect anything to charge.. each charger will have an isolated pos. and negative.. that's the beauty of ungrounded AC stuff!.. you can hook up all three chargers at the same time and BTW.. exactly what i'm planning.. i will install three charge jacks.. and i can charge one group at a time or all three at the same time if i have 3 chargers... i would of course triple check on the isolation but it pretty much has to be that way.
> 
> -awr


(Twenty dollars? I wanted a peanut!
Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts.)

Explain how!

(Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Woohoo!)


----------



## andrewwynn

the connections are like this... 







as you can see.. the + of J3 is also the - of J2 and such.. as long as your charger has isolated grounds you can use multiple chargers at the same time, no problemo. this is exactly how i plan to charge my LK12. 

I will use some charge jacks to make it really convenient.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I'm only planning on buying the one charger that I mentioned earlier. Are you saying that I can use wire nuts to permanently connect them, and then just attach the alligator clips to the + and - wires of each battery pack at a time? I thought that would make the charger see it as a single battery pack of 28.8V, since that's how the bulb will see it.

Would it be simpler, and work, to connect everything using switches, and then just turn them OFF to isolate things?

I should receive my own credit card around Saturday, so I'll soon be able to really start buying things!


----------



## andrewwynn

you can permanently connect them.. if you want to use alligator clips.. you can make some permanent connections.. just wire a smaller wire like 18ga into each of the wire-nutted connections.. and bring that wire to a post inside the back portal.. fasten to a set of the likes of binding posts you can make just by putting some bolts through a plastic fin so you have something nice to attach the clips... just make sure they can't move around lest they short out! 

definitely not simpler and no reason to have more than one switch.. the path is isolated any time the light is off! 

look out world... new credit card! 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

A single switch - awesome. So, I can just run a wire from each connection point out to the original light's charging hole? It sounds like this would create four protruding wires, and I'd just have to connect the charging clamps to adjacent wire pairs.


----------



## andrewwynn

You basically have it figured out.. but what you described just above is a hazzard waiting to happen.. you need to have a fixed solution where it's not possible for the wires to move around. you can have something like screws going through the body that you can clip to them.. but i would prefer them inside so you don't have a shorting hazzard. You could put a fuse on each lead but that's a lot of work. 

I personally would put in 3 charge jacks and fix up a cord that has a charge plug on it. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

It sounds like a cap would be nice to cover the protruding screws with. Maybe a loop with a cap tethered to it, a little hinged lid... Any ideas?


----------



## andrewwynn

just put them inside the back porthole. you can have 4 bolts up the side about 3/4 inch apart.. perfect for clipping the alligator clips


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Excellent.

Hurry up and get here, MasterCard... My bank account is too full.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

So...

Where would I find one of those handy fuses, and which one should I get?

Also, is there any particular reason to get RC battery packs instead of hooking up multiple cells? I'm thinking of just buying 24 5000mAh C cells and putting them in those holders they have at Fry's. Would that work just as well, or are the ready-made packs specially balanced, or low-resistance, or something?


----------



## andrewwynn

you can get a barrel fuse holder at just about any electronics store, probably even ®S.. You can not use 'holders'.. we are talking about 22A here.. they need to be soldered/welded packs.. the cells also need to handle 22A.. so RC-rated high-current cells are a must! 

I'm making mine from multiple single cells.. sub-c size. i've not found suitable C size that can handle the current.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Ah! That's good to know. I don't want to go boom.

Here's where I'm planning on getting the:
Switch
Connectors
Fuse here or here

What do you think?


----------



## andrewwynn

here is the fuse holder type i'm talking about.. but it's only rated for 10A.. with some beefing up of the internal wiring it should be ok,., you can't run 22A through a fine spring.. it should have a wire held to the fuse with the spring, or no spring.

the connectors are for attaching the bat packs, right? 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

A search for "fuse holder" on RadioShack returns results with higher amp ratings than 10. Are these holders the wrong style, or something? A search for "glass fuse" returns a bunch of fuses, with ratings of up to 20, 30, and 60 amps. Do I need to get one of these, too? Does the fuse blow if too many amps run through it, i.e., would a 30A fuse be good? If the fuse blows, does it need to be replaced?

Sorry for all the n00b questions - I'm a total novice in electrical matters.


----------



## andrewwynn

well.. the key to usefulness is access if you wanted to disconnect and also to leave the fuse out when not using the light.. so a kid or a cat etc doesn't turn on the light.. 

the LK12 will absolutely start fires.. from several feet away... i would not recommend having one without either a key or a fuse you can remove to act as the key. 

the panel-mount is the nicest solution because you have immediate access from the outside. the blade-type that autos use are nice but inline-fuses aren't as easy to use, but that wouldn't be terrible either.

30A fuse should be plenty.. yup fuses need to be replaced if they blow, not like circuit breakers.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

So, what exactly is the purpose of the fuse? Is it meant to be left in the light when you don't want it turned on, so that if it's accidentally activated, the fuse will blow? If that's the case, perhaps I can simply connect an extra switch and mount it inside the light as a kind of internal safety. That way, the light would have to be actually opened up to activate it. After activation, the light could be reassembled and switched on and off from the outside switch.

:thinking: Right?


----------



## andrewwynn

the fuse is like the 'car keys'.. you take it out and it doesn't operate... to use it you must install it.. in addition it does the normal job of a fuse.. it will blow rather than starting a fire or such if something 'goes awry'. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

"Goes awry"? :huh:

Like... what?


----------



## andrewwynn

I just moved the post to a new thread to share with anybody interested in high-power battery packs and alert them to the inherent hazzard of high-power.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Holy schla-moly! OK, I'm getting a fuse!

Howzabout this in the "ATO" version or the "mini" version - each is a 25-pack of 30A spade fuses.

You were probably afraid of this, but: What's the difference between the ATO and mini?


----------



## andrewwynn

There are two types of blade fuses for cars.. the mini is about 1/8th the volume of the standard.. the standard is probably better for use with 22A.. more surface area on the connector. 25A would probably be enough and safer.. you will not likely ever blow the fuse so a 2-pack will be enough. 

Fuse=good.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Ah ha!

So would this be good? A 5-pack of 25A spade fuses, and not "mini."

It looks like ATO, JCASE, and Maxi are brands. Any recommendations?

BTW, only ATO has 25A in particular. The other two have 20A and 30A.


----------



## andrewwynn

with no picture i'm not familar with the names, etc.. but yes.. the bigger spade fuse would probably be very good.. i'm thinking i might use that for mine as well, hopefully i can find a panel-mount holder for the spade fuse.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Well, my MasterCard came yesterday (see Wells Fargo thread in CAFE), and after spending a few hundred dollars, I'm ready to spend some more. I'm going to email Starlight when I get home to see if he can still sell me the Q4559X. After that's confirmed, I'll buy the host, batteries, switch, connectors, and fuse (I already have 12g wire).

I think this might happen soon!


----------



## NikolaTesla

I am holding my breath! I get #2 SOON! 12000 Lumens at least out the front! Who-Yaaa!
















 :goodjob:

Andrew makes really neat lights, I must add. They are BRIGHT, They are COOL. They take forever to get done and cost a ton of $$$$ but WORTH EVERY BIT OF IT!:naughty: :naughty:


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I have the 12ga. wire and switches, and the fuses, connectors, and batteries are on order. All that're left are the host and bulb. Does anyone know if Starlight still has the Q4559X? I emailed him recently, and haven't gotten a response back yet.

12,000 lumens... soon...


----------



## elnino

IIRC the 4559 will get you 12,000 lumens and the Q4559X will get you 14,000.


----------



## Starlight

TigerhawkT3, I still have the Q4559X bulb. I have not received an email from you recently.


----------



## andrewwynn

the 14,000L is only when using ludicrous power plant.. larry's LK14 uses 8S2P LiPO pack.. like a 4.2AH pack.. maybe worth $350.. it holds 29.5V under load, hence the crazy overdrive. that said.. yes.. it's definitely brighter but it's kinda a weird beam.. one of the reasons i'm going with bulb n reflector vs sealed beam. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

What host can I get, and where?


----------



## iamerror

For a host you can use the orange 3MCP Harbor Freight spotlight (item number 08825 on the their website).


----------



## andrewwynn

i prefer the host that comes with a rechargeable bat.. it cost about $35.. and you get a nice charger, a power supply and 7AH SLA battery out of the deal. 

-awr


----------



## choppers

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:


----------



## TigerhawkT3

So, iamerror, you mean this one, and andrewwynn, you mean this one? If they're functionally equivalent (neither requires dremel/lathe/etc. work, both will easily accept new parts, etc.), then the one andrewwynn mentioned looks a little nicer and sturdier.


----------



## andrewwynn

depending on how you do the mod.. the hosts will require some cutting (just some plastic fins).. if you use the ACL.. my choice for host (correct btw).. has a much thicker lens and has a rubber boot around the bezel so it can mask the fact that without modding.. the bezel doesn't screw on all the way (but it will assemble.. it just looks a bit funny).


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Cutting? What cutting? Describe this cutting, please.


----------



## Starlight

TigerhawkT3, if you buy batteries in the configuration I told you to get, there is no cutting required. You just have to remove the electronics board.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

:sweat: WHEW!! Now that's a relief.

I have the switches, fuses, wire, and batteries. I have already ordered the bulb (thanks, Starlight!), wire nuts (thanks, Starlight!), and charger (thanks, Alin10123!). I think the only thing I still haven't ordered is the host.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I got the Q4559X today, and this thing is HUGE! I showed it to my parents, and they just couldn't understand why I would "need" such a bright light. Since I can't exactly admit to them I'm a flashaholic, I just kept on telling them that I wanted it because "it's bright." My mom was suggesting situations I could use it in, like illuminating a basketball game (I don't play basketball), gardening (I don't garden), or for some general lighting during outdoor parties. I said that it wouldn't last long enough for a basketball game, it would burn plants if left too close to them, and it would need to be suspended a few hundred feet high to be dim enough to light a party.

I'm going to order the host now.


----------



## andrewwynn

LOL.. well.. what it works better than any light i've seen.. trying to locate somebody/something in a big open space like a valley or field.. nothing else remotely comes close.. not even remotely. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I don't think my parents would have liked that excuse either, since I've never had to do anything even remotely like that. It's good to know that I will soon be able to, if I need to.

I used this expression a few times: "These are used as HEADLIGHTS for AIRPLANES." It just felt so right to say that. What's the fire-starting distance/time on these things, anyway?

I don't remember seeing any + or - labels on the contacts under the LA. Which is which?

The battery packs came shrink-wrapped. Is that what holds them together, or do I need to remove it before use?


----------



## Starlight

Leave the battery packs shrink wrapped. There is no + or - on the lamp. Electricity happily flows in either direction through it.

Give yourself a treat. Put the wire nuts on the battery packs, so that they are in series, then touch the wires to the lamp. Do this outside at night, and don't look at the business end of the lamp.


----------



## andrewwynn

great treat. been there done that... actually.. try it INSIDE at night.. even more impressive.. just bounce it off a ceiling.. don't worry the lamp won't get hot.

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

The third battery pack is charging in Alin10123's 2A universal charger as I type this. So, shall I cut off the packs' RC connectors, strip the ends, and then wire-nut them in place?

The anticipation and suspense are really getting to me. I'm almost afraid to try it, because right now there is still a chance that it will work, but if I try it and it doesn't work, there's no chance.

Regardless of worry, you can bet that'll I'll definitely do that as soon as the last battery is finished charging...


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I tried it. Just so you don't worry, I'll tell you right now that it worked. It's "very" (a woefully inadequate word) bright.

First, it took me several minutes to work up the courage to snip off the plastic RC connectors. I was cutting the second wire on the first pack, when the rest of the cutter contacted the previously cut wire. Sparks ensued, and I worried. I continued and did the rest of the packs. (I felt like I was performing a bris... :laughing: )

It was significantly easier to strip a quarter-inch or so from each wire, because, hey, I already cut off the RC connectors, so no big difference now. Never before having stripped wire in my life, it worked a lot better than I expected it to.

After snipping and stripping, I tested the voltage of each pack with my DMM. Each pack read at around 11V, so that looked good. I relaxed a bit about the accidental shorting that occured earlier.

I connected the wires with wire nuts. Simple.

I loosened the screw on one of the lamp's terminals, put some bare wire under it, and tightened. Then, I touched the opposite wire to the other terminal. There were immediate sparks, so I opened the circuit. I tried again, and nothing happened - the other end had fallen out.

I tried everything again, and held on for a second or two. The lamp began to glow a bit, so that was encouraging.

I tried one more time, and held on. Even with the unreliable connections and jury-rigged assembly, this thing is so totally bright.

I can't wait for the host to arrive so construction can begin in earnest!


----------



## andrewwynn

I've welded the wires to the terminals from just touching them.. it's a 50-60A surge i'm sure at least.. plenty enough to weld.. it makes a really nice spark! 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Question: How do I connect the fuse? There are no screws or anything; each terminal is just a blade. How do I secure the wires to each contact?


----------



## Starlight

Solder, or drill a hole in the blades and use a screw and nut.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Starlight said:


> Solder, or drill a hole in the blades and use a screw and nut.


Uh-oh. I don't have a soldering iron (never soldered anything in my life), and I don't have the means to drill a properly-sized hole in the metal of a small fuse blade. If anyone knows of a good machine shop in the CA bay area, that would be good. Maybe I could bring it to the bay area BBQ in a few weeks!

I don't really want to have to wait until the BBQ, but I also don't want to have a fuseless LK12 (the batteries are too expensive to melt). Any other acceptable connection methods?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Andrew, I sent you an email about this. Great project.


----------



## andrewwynn

tiger.. you need a fuse holder :-D

Lux.. see reply.. in short.. i'm planning a batch of LK12s.. but not for a while and not cheap. (but quite 'loaded'.. i.e. mine will be regulated!). 

-awr


----------



## LuxLuthor

andrewwynn said:


> tiger.. you need a fuse holder :-D
> 
> Lux.. see reply.. in short.. i'm planning a batch of LK12s.. but not for a while and not cheap. (but quite 'loaded'.. i.e. mine will be regulated!).
> 
> -awr



I don't imagine there is much difference between it and the 14K you played with and that higher quality bulb then? Anyway, I'll reply to your email, and maybe I can lock in a position. Thank you sir!


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Where can I get a fuse holder? RadioShack, maybe?


----------



## andrewwynn

RS does have a blade-type fuse holder i believe.. else an autoshop.. it won't be rated for 30A most likely, but if it's solidly built it should work ok for short-term use like the LK. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Radioshack had inline holders for blade fuses, rated at 30A. I bought one for less than $3.

I... I think I'm done! Total cost for parts was around $250. That doesn't include labor and the time I spent, of course. Here's my setup:

Host: Harbor Freight 10MCP
Bulb: Sylvania Q4559X
Batteries: Three 9.6V 3600mAh sub-C NiMH RC packs in series
Switch: Two 12V/50A-rated switches (one internal, one external)
Fuse: 25A blade fuse
Fuse Holder: 30A inline
Wire: 12g
Wire Nuts: Large and small - thanks, Starlight!
Charger: Alin10123's 2A Universal Smart Charger

The original contents of the host can still produce light - it's just a little more complicated to carry around. It's perfectly functional, so I feel somewhat obligated to at least slap together a casing of some sort for it.

I'm itching to do the fire-starting experiment. Any tips/suggestions/advice?

Most importantly, my most sincere thanks and gratitude to all who helped me complete this project, especially andrewwynn and Starlight!


----------



## larryk

Congratulations TigerhawkT3, sounds like you almost there. Starting paper on fire ?? Heck, you can cook you ham and eggs on this light.


----------



## LuxLuthor

larryk said:


> Starting paper on fire ?? Heck, you can cook you ham and eggs on this light.



Even cook green eggs and ham, Sam I am!!!:laughing:


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I just finished recharging the battery packs in my LarryK12 for the first time. When I test-fired it to check for s, I was reminded of how bright the thing is. With the beam bouncing off the ceiling of my room, it's around twice as bright as the ceiling light.

At the recent CPF Bay Area BBQ, I was informed that the large hotspot of the LK12 means that it probably can't burn paper. I don't doubt that I could cook on it, though! Well, I could cook on it, but not very well. The window is convex, so egg whites and steak juices would run off to the sides.


----------



## larryk

Both my GE and Osram lamps have flat windows. It should be a lot more than twice as bright as your ceiling light, unless your using a 300 watt bulb. What brand are your sub C battery packs that you are you using ? Also could you take a photo of the filament on the Sylvania Q4559X ?


----------



## andrewwynn

yeah that's kinda funny 'twice as bright'.. my Mag625 is twice as bright and it's 3500L or so... which is actually more like 3x the amt. of light but once you bounce off the ceiling vs generate at the ceiling .. the ceiling light will output more lux at the floor. 

That said.. even with only 23-24V to the lamp you'll have maybe 10,000L with that light.. it's probably closer to SIX or SEVEN times as bright if you have 3-4 60W lamps.. your eyes are playing tricks on you by 'closing down' when the brighter light is on. 

-awr


----------



## TigerhawkT3

I should have said that it LOOKS twice as bright. It probably IS several times brighter, but a Mk1 CE isn't the most accurate of light measuring tools. I'll measure the ceiling light vs. ceiling bounce with my luxmeter and take some pictures of the LA when I have time tonight. The battery packs are AmondoTech's Titanium brand, 8xSubC NiMH, 3.6Ah.


----------



## BVH

Is anyone interested in making a battery pack to sell? I'd like to finish my QX monster but am not skilled enough in battery pack fabrication.


----------



## larryk

You might what to contact CheapBatteryPacks.com. They can build a battery pack to your specifications. Just make sure you chose a battery that will hold 1.2 volts at 30 amps. If you go on the cheap you will be disappointed.


----------



## BVH

Thanks for the info, Larry.


----------



## andrewwynn

'what he said'.. I'm using CBP for my version.. the LK12+.. 33 cells per pack.. three groups of 11 with a connection point at each group for charging 11 at a time.

-awr


----------



## LuxLuthor

andrewwynn said:


> 'what he said'.. I'm using CBP for my version.. the LK12+.. 33 cells per pack.. three groups of 11 with a connection point at each group for charging 11 at a time.
> 
> -awr



:rock:  :rock:


----------



## windstrings

Humm.......14K...... Hummmmm......... eggs?... Ham?.... me hungry.....


----------



## BVH

More like BBQ Buffalo, I'd think, Windy.


----------



## windstrings

larryk said:


> You might what to contact CheapBatteryPacks.com. They can build a battery pack to your specifications. Just make sure you chose a battery that will hold 1.2 volts at 30 amps. If you go on the cheap you will be disappointed.



That bulb is only a 1.2 volt? my confused again.... :huh2:
I thought we were talking 28 volts?


----------



## larryk

1.2 volts x 24 cells will give you 28.8 volts under load. Or 25 cells for 30 volts. If you want to get adventurous, 26 cells for 31.2 volts. Hope this clears things up a little.


----------



## windstrings

larryk said:


> 1.2 volts x 24 cells will give you 28.8 volts under load. If you want to get gutsy try 25 cells for 30 volts. Hope this clears things up a little.



thanks... its only 3:00 AM..... I'm not thinking.....I guess I'm possessed and can't go to sleep.... 
Lux did it to me......


----------



## LuxLuthor

windstrings said:


> thanks... its only 3:00 AM..... I'm not thinking.....I guess I'm possessed and can't go to sleep....
> Lux did it to me......












Yeah, those Elite 4500 cells are da bomb for this light, cranking at 30A.


.


----------



## windstrings

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah, those Elite 4500 cells are da bomb for this light, cranking at 30A.
> 
> 
> .



I I've always felt like there was a thorn in my side.... or spear.. whatever....


----------



## BVH

Larry, Lux, have you done any voltage readings on initial lighting off of your LarryK after charging to see what the voltage is? Larry seems to be saying that one might get away with 25 or 26 cells to maintain above 29 Volts. Did someone say we can overdrive these at 30+ Volts under load? I'm wondering if the use of more than 24 of the Elite 4500 cells might result in flashing the bulb since they can provide much more amperage than it needs? If I'm going to have a pack made, I want to get it made with the max number of cells I can for overdrive brightness but that won't flash the bulb.


----------



## windstrings

BVH said:


> Larry, Lux, have you done any voltage readings on initial lighting off of your LarryK after charging to see what the voltage is? Larry seems to be saying that one might get away with 25 or 26 cells to maintain above 29 Volts. Did someone say we can overdrive these at 30+ Volts under load? I'm wondering if the use of more than 24 of the Elite 4500 cells might result in flashing the bulb since they can provide much more amperage than it needs? If I'm going to have a pack made, I want to get it made with the max number of cells I can for overdrive brightness but that won't flash the bulb.



It almost sounds like its according to which bulb you choose? Post # 46


> The 4559 has a better spot than the Q4559X but the 4559 is not quite as bright as the Q4559X. Also the Q4559X draws less current with less voltage sag than the 4559 for some reason. My light holds at 29.5 volts under load.



Then heres a quote from post # 45


> I don't see how you could fit more than the 24 Sub-C cells unless you went with a larger than Harbor Freight style spotlight.



But BVH, when you figure out how to make it brighter than Lux's... I'll be ready..... :touche:

Too bad you can't use lithium protected cells (9 X 3.3 volts) "under load" or similiar....maybe 8 is all you could do.
I"ve thought of using 12cell 6A computer batteries with two in series and run those in parallel, but probrably much more hassle and less voltage control than loose batteries that can conform to a case better.


----------



## LuxLuthor

BVH said:


> Larry, Lux, have you done any voltage readings on initial lighting off of your LarryK after charging to see what the voltage is? Larry seems to be saying that one might get away with 25 or 26 cells to maintain above 29 Volts. Did someone say we can overdrive these at 30+ Volts under load? I'm wondering if the use of more than 24 of the Elite 4500 cells might result in flashing the bulb since they can provide much more amperage than it needs? If I'm going to have a pack made, I want to get it made with the max number of cells I can for overdrive brightness but that won't flash the bulb.



Yes, I posted about my hot and resting voltages on page one in that Aircraft Landing Lights thread. And I posted the link of the drain curve of these batteries. Go get Windy to look it up for you! LOL!



windstrings said:


> blah blah blah....But BVH, when you figure out how to make it brighter than Lux's... I'll be ready.....blah blah blah


You failed to realize these lights don't use a ballast....and then you keep screwing around with Lithium ("Fire Hazard") and "El Cheapo" unknown generic Thomas batteries, demonstrating your lack of understanding of the necessary current & safety demands....so you should just stay home and make some dinner, so the "Real Men" have something to eat when they get back from using their lights. And make it snappy, I'm getting hungry! :laughing:

.


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## TigerhawkT3

I'm having problems with my LK12.

It seems that whenever I take it out to places, it's really weak. I can comfortably look at the spot, and when I put my hand in front of it, it's just warm. However, when I try it at home, it's super-bright, and I can't put my hand in front of the beam for more than a moment because it's hot, hot, hot.

All I've got in there are three Amondotech Titatnium 8-cell 3600mAh SubC NiMH packs, two switches, a fuse (25A), a fuse holder, and the bulb (Sylvania Q4559X).

What the heck is going on with my not-so-wow light?


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## LuxLuthor

LOL...funny to see this thread brought back. If it's hot at home (presuming after a fresh charge), but not later...then I would guess one of two things. I was just playing with mine outside showing a city park security guard what a real spotlight can do.

1) One of the cells is bad. Have to trace it down with load challenge.

2) Cells need to be conditioned at 0.1C for 15 hours.

I would say mine gives a healthy kick for about 5 minutes, but I don't usually run it for more than 30 sec at a time because the crazy amps and heat....and that works fine. Some drop off at some point...but the Elite Sub-C's have a kick-*** steady performance graph.

Did it ever work properly with some duration?


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## TigerhawkT3

I charged it up in the afternoon, tested it for a few seconds, then shut it off. It was nice and bright. At the beach a couple hours later, I tried it for about half a minute, and it was ridiculously dim. When I got home a few hours later, I tested it out again, and it was crazy bright. I don't know what the heck is going on.


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## larryk

Sounds like a conection problem somewhere. I would take it apart check it out.


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## Aircraft800

Do you know anyone with a RC Battery pack tester? The kind of tester that can apply different loads to the cells and check their integrity. You may have a bad pack or bad cell. It sounds more like resistance issue, like burned up contacts in your switch, but from what you describe, that switch should hold up to the 600W bulb. I had a bad connector on a battery pack that would get really hot while quick charging, easy quick find of my high resistance.

I think I'm also having a similar problem with my Titanium cells. I have better charger on the way to try to condition the cells (Supernova 250s). I don't have access to a tester though; I'll get a resistor and check them this week.


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## LuxLuthor

The thing that seems unique in his setup is the bright--dim--bright variations that happen after a charge...which almost has to point to a short. I was originally thinking it was bright at home because it was right after a fresh charge, but if he comes back home after it being dim outside and now it is bright again without having charged it, then something is intermittently shorting out.

In my suggestion of a bad cell that either needs to undergo a conditioning charge (.1C x 15 hrs) or be replaced...that would be more an initial bright period with a very rapid drop off. It is possible to get an idea even without a pack or load tester to get DMM leads in and check each cells voltage.

How did you make your packs? Any chance if you soldered them that there was damage done to a cell, or a short?


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## TigerhawkT3

LuxLuthor said:


> The thing that seems unique in his setup is the bright--dim--bright variations that happen after a charge...which almost has to point to a short. I was originally thinking it was bright at home because it was right after a fresh charge, but if he comes back home after it being dim outside and now it is bright again without having charged it, then something is intermittently shorting out.
> 
> In my suggestion of a bad cell that either needs to undergo a conditioning charge (.1C x 15 hrs) or be replaced...that would be more an initial bright period with a very rapid drop off. It is possible to get an idea even without a pack or load tester to get DMM leads in and check each cells voltage.
> 
> How did you make your packs? Any chance if you soldered them that there was damage done to a cell, or a short?


Yeah, that behavior was really weirding me out. The packs are three pre-assembled Titanium RC packs from Amondotech. I soldered the wires together and covered the connections with electrical tape. Should I try to desolder, check for shorts/etc., and reassemble it?


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## LuxLuthor

I would first look at all the connections between the packs, switch, bulb and look for any sign of arcing or inadequate connections. I would have soldered all the connections for secure connections. You could manually connect the switch wires to each other just to rule out a short within the switch.

Then see if you can get some DMM readings on each of the 3 packs ideally under load, and see if there are any differences....then go after the lower pack first. If you can get a thin lead tester in between individual batteries that would be another first step. If all the pack voltages were the same, I would next do a discharge and 0.1C conditioning charge for 15 hrs. 

Last resort, you may have to take the packs apart for ZTS/resistor load testing and use your new battery jig to resolder back.

BTW, what cells are these?


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## JimmyM

See if you can get readings with a DMM across each of the components. Switches, fuse holders, etc. I think that the "intermittent" dim condition is a poor connection. The other solution might be to let it run in the dim condition until the evidence of a high resistance connection makes itself known. You don't have access to an infrared imaging camera do you?

Side question: Would this lamp survive 3 x 9 cell packs if soft started?


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## Starlight

JimmyM, I run the 4559, not the 4559X, on 26 3600mah Nimh subCs. They are fine, hot off the charger.


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## LuxLuthor

Jimmy is asking about adding the 27th cell with a soft start. Well....there's one way to find out.


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## ez78

Just finished building my larryk14 type spotlight. Mine is ghostbusters type version. Lead acid batteries in the backpack. Heavy, but I don't mind. Ended up using sla batteries because they are so cheap, hold charge very well for long times and easily give the wanted amps. And my 10Ah 5x6v pack actually holds at 29v when running which is crazy bright, haha. 

I added some extras. I have a switch for selecting 24V or 30V. Mainly because I was afraid of instaflash. And there is also a voltage meter with led display so I would't kill my batteries.


Here is one quick picture taken in a hurry. Later I might try to take some beamshots. Maybe comparison with the Amondotech Illuminator.


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## LuxLuthor

ez, now that is a very cool setup. That light looks the nicest of any I have seen with that LED display even if your batteries are separate. 

Where did you get that LED, and is that side toggle on/off for it? I can see a benefit of having that display. Great mod work!


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## RickB

ez78 said:


> Here is one quick picture taken in a hurry. Later I might try to take some beamshots. Maybe comparison with the Amondotech Illuminator.



Beamshots would be cool...

-Rick


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## ez78

LuxLuthor said:


> ez, now that is a very cool setup. That light looks the nicest of any I have seen with that LED display even if your batteries are separate.
> 
> Where did you get that LED, and is that side toggle on/off for it? I can see a benefit of having that display. Great mod work!



Thanks Lux. I found that LED panel in a local electronics store. It has got a voltage meter integrated in it. Google found only this: http://restposten.de/article-2647410.html 
I think that is it though. I payed about $10 for it.

If you Google "led panel meter" it will show similar devices.

The side toggle is for selecting 24V/30V. There is one 6V battery inside the light itself and the switch controls if it is connected in series with the separate battery pack. Which is actually 2 x 12V pack. I use the original off/on1/on2 switch to activate the LED panel.


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## LuxLuthor

ez, Maybe this one I found with google might work


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## ez78

LuxLuthor said:


> ez, Maybe this one I found with google might work



Yeah looks right and quite small too so easier to cut mounting hole. My led panel was default configured to +/- 200mV range but it came with instructions how to enable other ranges by soldering some resistors in places. I did that and now it's 200V max. I think these can often be modified that way even if it is sold as 100mV max or something. 

Damn this is one fun light to play with, haha. 

TigerhawkT3, I hope you get your light fixed soon and thanks for the info you provided sometime ago. Nice youtube video btw. 

Some sharper photos with daylight present:




[URL=http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1276xd9.jpg]


[/URL]


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## Raoul_Duke

LuxLuthor said:


> ez, Maybe this one I found with google might work



Lux, Just a thought you may want to use one of these With that Volt meter, so you can use the whole batterypacks voltage to power the voltmeter.

The Batterypacks voltage could be 7v~36v (unregulated) and It gives a flat 5V output voltage to power the Voltmeter.

I dont know how much power the Meter consumes but looking at the Regulator its good up to 1A with heatsinking, and suggests its use would be:

"An ideal candidate for being used for our Digital Panel Meter or other device driven by 5V DC at low current."

Hopefully low current means the 100ma they talk about, or less) So more juice gets used on the lamp.

I looked into this for some mag mods, but I cant find a voltmeter small enough, might look a bit frankensteinish on the side of a Mag, Still for the price I still may give it a go if I could think of a way to mould a housing on the side.


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## ez78

Raoul, cool find. The harbor freight host has so much space it is easy to just add some extra battery. I just threw one 9V battery in.

Some new beamshots by me here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174325


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## TigerhawkT3

Bump. 

I got a new clamp DMM from Sears a few days ago, so I was finally able to measure the current in my LK12. It starts at about 30A, then drops to 20A within several seconds, remaining pretty stable at that level.

I've been thinking about replacing the currently installed lamp with the weird oblong beam (purchased secondhand) with a new one, which would hopefully have a proper beam like everyone else's. While I do that, maybe I can get the switch to be a bit more inconspicuous (i.e. recessed).


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## puzzl3

Where can i get this? how much?


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## xucchini

I have been lurking here for quite a while. Got bought a Fenix P1D a year or 2 ago. Anyway have always been interested in the LarryK14 and was thinking about picking up a Ryobi tool set including two 2.4Ah 18v lithium batteries.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100618266

I was wondering could I power a LarryK14 off two of them, or is this a really bad idea?


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## BVH

I wired 4 ea., Dewalt 36 Volt A123 packs together in parallel and when I hooked them up and threw the switch, got a big arc and then notta, nothing. The built-in balancing modules all popped/went poof. If there's any circuitry in those batts, I would not wire them together. Extract the cells and make your own pack. 36 Volts is just a wee bit high. With my 24-cell Nimh 4.5 AH pack, I start at about 35 Volts and it immediately drops to about 33.5 or 34. 36 Volts is only one more but I think it may be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.


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## xucchini

Here is a link of someone breaking down the DeWalt 36v A123 packs for use in R/C applications. 

http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/packs.htm

Hmm.. the thought of just being able to use 1 or 2 powertool battery packs is sooo tidy. Oh well


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## suprattmike

I am currently buying parts to build one of these lights and was wondering if anyone had powered one of these with the dewalt 36 volt battery pack, model DC9360. I don't know if this would be too much voltage without a soft starter but the JM-SST is sold out. I don't want to instaflash a $35 dollar bulb. I will be using GE Q4559x bulb.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## LuxLuthor

I don't think anyone has established the soft start protected flash point of the GE Q4559x bulb like I did for bipin bulbs in my sig link. I do believe that the 36V pack will be too much. I know my Larry-14K uses 24 x 4500mAh NiMH SubC cells which charge hot to about 35V. I have always rested it for a few hours until it gets in the 34V neighborhood. Never flashed a bulb.

I think JimmyM is getting "close" to having a regulated solution for lights in this range.


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## windstrings

xucchini said:


> Here is a link of someone breaking down the DeWalt 36v A123 packs for use in R/C applications.
> 
> http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/packs.htm
> 
> Hmm.. the thought of just being able to use 1 or 2 powertool battery packs is sooo tidy. Oh well




I do like the fact that the Milwaukee V28 pack is lithium!


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## SafetyBob

Actually the V28 is or are Emoli batteries of the safe type lithium like variety. They are not lithiums....

Just pulled my pack apart. Also discovered that my Triton2 only charges up to 18 something volts for Li-ion. I thought I could do a whole 28 volt pack......

Bob E.


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## BVH

Bob, looks like you're gonna need Schulze! 

I'm with Lux, I charge mine, let it sit for minimum of two hours then light it off. 34 Volts is my comfort level.

Mike, Send me an extra bulb and I'll use my regulated, variable power supply to find out the blow point.


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## Mr Happy

SafetyBob said:


> Actually the V28 is or are Emoli batteries of the safe type lithium like variety. They are not lithiums....


Well strictly speaking, that's a technicality. Emoli is a lithium ion chemistry -- that's what the "li" on the end of "Emoli" stands for -- E-Manganese Oxide Lithium Ion. It is just a different variety of lithium ion is all.


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## Shep48gc

Sounds like fun. I am building one. I am new to this, anyone around to answer some questions? I plan on going with 24x http://www.megabatteries.com/item_details2.asp?id=14272&cat_id=227&uid=1431 
I do not understand how to connect a charger.


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## BVH

There's a few of us that still play with ours. Some of us have upgraded by purchasing a no longer available programmable regulator board that allows input of up to 70 Volts (IIRC) and is good for a current of 50 amps. I have one such light and run 52 Volts to the board and have the board programmed to provide a regulated 29.7 Volts to the lamp until the batteries are depleted. 24 Nimh cells works fine as long as you let it sit for a couple hours after charging. Output drops off very fast, though.


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## Shep48gc

52 volts? What are you using for a battery?


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