# Some A2 issues



## KevinL (Apr 20, 2006)

Hey folks,

While I like my black A2, recently it's been giving me some issues 

After a while I find I can't get the main incandescent beam to fire up at full power. It comes on at a low power level, rather than full blast. I assumed it was time to change batteries, but when I checked the cells coming out of the light they still had plenty of juice (4-5 flash amps and 3V). Worse, when I changed to new cells, the incan beam would come on at reduced power half the time, and full power occasionally. 

It's not a cell problem. I'm guessing there is some kind of resistance building up somewhere that is forcing the main incan out of regulation. 

What do you guys think? Time to drop Surefire a line and see what they can do for me? I'd like to fix the problem in the field without badgering them.. field repairability and reliability is important to me. I kinda prefer the U2's constant-current regulation over the resistance-in-tailcap design that some of the two-level SFs use.


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## a99raptors (Apr 20, 2006)

Man, So sorry about the A2. I just got mine and I love it. Good luck fixing the problem. Do you have another A2 or an L2? You can try switching the tailcap around to see if that is the problem.


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## greenLED (Apr 20, 2006)

Clean all contacts?
I don't have an A2, so I can't think of anything else right now.


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## bwaites (Apr 20, 2006)

Kevin, this problem comes up on frequently used A2's from time to time.

Usually some contact cleaning, at all the contact points, especially in the tailcap area, will resolve it.

The regulation in the A2 is VERY sensitive to resistance apparently, and simple cleaning will usually bring it back.

Jim's notes about the switch and the conduction path in this thread are worth reading:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107943

Hope that helps!!

Bill


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## KevinL (Apr 20, 2006)

:sigh:

Can't have "very sensitive" lights in mission critical roles now can I.... (SF's quote about "When the difference between life and death is measured in thousandths of a second and fractions of an inch" comes to mind here)...

Will try re-cleaning the A2. Wish it wasn't so finicky though. This A2 is hardly used, put 3 sets of cells through it, and it sleeps most of the time. The U2 picks up the tab all the time when the SHTF.


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## bwaites (Apr 20, 2006)

I have 2 of them, and my HA does this from time to time.

I consider them tools, and clean and condition them as tools.

They get wiped down and cleaned at least every month, top to bottom.

Bill


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## Kiessling (Apr 20, 2006)

I have a black one, and encountered the same issue about 3 days ago ... but discovered that the batteries were relatively depleted ... it works well with new ones now.

However ... when I out my ear next to the tailcap, I hear a faint buzzing (like an "arcing" sound" everytime I press the tailcap at the moment it makes contact. I do not have this with my other SF tailcaps. It remains after cleaning the contacts ... but I can't clean those "In" the tailcap.

My conclusions (call the guesses  ) would be that 
a) regulation is really depending on full battery strength here and won't tolerate resistance (as already said by guys wiser than me)
b) the tailcap has some resistance in it that can become critical once the batteries start to become a bit depleted.

bernie


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## KevinL (Apr 20, 2006)

The U2 hasn't been wiped or cleaned in at least 9 months.. I need to get around to do it, but it works so fine in the meantime 

They are tools.. I like the maintenance-free kind though! (I design and build systems for minimal operator intervention at work)


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## greenLED (Apr 20, 2006)

Bernie, that's probably the inductor (?) buzzing inside your light. From what I hear from other lights (U2 and HDS included), it's a fairly normal phenomenon.


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## wquiles (Apr 20, 2006)

I must be extremely lucky then :naughty: 

I have at least 30-35 battery changes in my A2, it is on my left front pocket every single day (no it is not babied) and not a single time have I ever seen this problem. My A2 just simply works every single time 

Will


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## leukos (Apr 20, 2006)

It may be different because of the voltage, but like wquiles, I have over 100 li-ion battery cycles in my A2 with no issues. It did seem like there was an abnormal amount of QC issues with the supremeco black A2's. I hope it is nothing more than dirty contacts. I guess you eliminated the possibility of it being a problem with the batteries, that would have been my first guess.


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## pizzaman (Apr 20, 2006)

What brand battery are you using?

I have had problems with my A2 using BatteryStation lithiums (intermittant low output on incan). Other batteries work fine.

TR


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## KevinL (Apr 21, 2006)

pizzaman said:


> What brand battery are you using?
> 
> I have had problems with my A2 using BatteryStation lithiums (intermittant low output on incan). Other batteries work fine.
> 
> TR



Interesting.. Surefire and Batterystation here. Good point, I'll definitely have to look into this issue.


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## bwaites (Apr 21, 2006)

Kevin, 

Now that it has been mentioned, I also had Batterystation cells cause problems. They actually replaced 50 cells which I had problems with.

Bill


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## leukos (Apr 21, 2006)

Yes, there were a few threads to this effect in the general discussion forum concerning the A2 and a bad batch of batterystation brand CR123a.


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

That settles it... only SF123s for me from now on.


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

leukos said:


> It did seem like there was an abnormal amount of QC issues with the supremeco black A2's.


 
Anyone else with a HA A2 behaving weird? Be interesting to know because I just got mine, and I really really really love it.


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## underdust (Apr 21, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> Anyone else with a HA A2 behaving weird? Be interesting to know because I just got mine, and I really really really love it.



Recently my HA A2 was acting odd too. It was sitting on a shelf for a couple of weeks (I know... I'm a bad flashaholic), and when I picked it up and pressed the button, the LEDs lit, but the incan was very dim. The batteries were fine, so I figured something might just have been "dirty" inside. I ended up twisting the tailcap all the way on and back off quickly, about 6-10 times, and after that everything worked normally.

This was about a week ago, though, and I haven't checked it since then, so I can't guarantee any long term results.


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

Yoicks! Ain't there anything in life that one can be sure of anymore?


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 21, 2006)

Try a different MA02 lamp-assembly.


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> That settles it... only SF123s for me from now on.


Don't discount the 700mA rechargeable LiIons from AW. That is what myself and others exclusively use in the A2 and it works perfect, and with guilt-free lumens 

Will


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## buba (Apr 21, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Don't discount the 700mA rechargeable LiIons from AW. That is what myself and others exclusively use in the A2 and it works perfect, and with guilt-free lumens
> 
> Will



My unprotected LiIons from AW work fine. I have both the MP brand (700mA) and AW's blue label (750mA) and they fit the A2 body. No issues so far. You can also get the MP brand from Lighthound.


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Don't discount the 700mA rechargeable LiIons from AW. That is what myself and others exclusively use in the A2 and it works perfect, and with guilt-free lumens
> 
> Will


 At the risk of burning your LEDs, right?


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> At the risk of burning your LEDs, right?


Funny that you mentioned that. In here I do "recommend" that you change the resistor values for the LED's when using rechargeable LiIons. I am an EE engineer so in my case I did change the resistors becuase it was the "right" thing to do and since I know and had the tools to do so, however, several here in the forums use these cells without changing the resistors and have not reported any problems. Your milleage might vary 

Will


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

Haha! I almost went to engineering myself. Wish I did though, still got the "bug". Problem is, I don't like to play with the internal workings too much because I don't have the know-how. Anyway, I thought the 7.2-8.4 V was too much for incandescent lamps? Also, do you use protected or unprotected cells?


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> Haha! I almost went to engineering myself. Wish I did though, still got the "bug". Problem is, I don't like to play with the internal workings too much. Also, do you use protected or unprotected cells?


Only the unprotected cells fit due to the nickel ring at the switch side of the battery tube. However, with the A2, almost by pure luck (or by accident!), the A2 does go out of regulation (turns from beautiful white beam to a crappy, low output yellow beam) right when it is the right time to recharge the LiIon cells. So as long as you turn the light off at this point and always use a good charger for your LiIon cells, you should be fine. I have more than 35 cycles on my MP700 cells and they still work great!

Will


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks Will. Read your post about adding the resistor value. Still don't quite understand somethings. Where is the resistor placed? What kind do I need?


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## W4DIZ (Apr 21, 2006)

Two of my co-workers have had the same problem when useing 
Battery station cells in the A2.
Is this normal for these,or did we just get a bad batch?


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> Thanks Will. Read your post about adding the resistor value. Still don't quite understand somethings. Where is the resistor placed? What kind do I need?


Here is the original and still best guide to changing the LED's in the A2 

Will


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## a99raptors (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks Will. Basically, it tells a guy like me with no modding skills, DON'T TOUCH THAT...


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## bwaites (Apr 21, 2006)

W4Diz, 

BatteryStation replaced mine and I've had no further problems, there was evidently a bad batch in the system.

Bill


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## W4DIZ (Apr 22, 2006)

bwaites said:


> W4Diz,
> 
> BatteryStation replaced mine and I've had no further problems, there was evidently a bad batch in the system.
> 
> Bill


Thanks for the reply Bill.Its nice to know that we can sill use BatteryStation
cells in the A2's.On a side note: the cells that wont work in the A2 seem to work fine in other lights.


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## bwaites (Apr 22, 2006)

W4DIZ,

The batch I had worked fine in lots of LED lights, and even with a P60 Surefire, thus I had used them for several months before I had to replace the cells in the A2, after I had run through the ones in the spares carrier. BatteryStation was EXCELLENT about replacing them.

Bill


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## lightplay22 (Apr 22, 2006)

My A2 started doing EXACTLY as described in the first post of this thread. I sprayed deoxit in the tail cap and this seemed to help but did not completely eliminate the problem. The only other thing I've done so far is to hit the button against the palm of my hand a few times, and this seemed to help.

Now I never pick it up without trying it just to be sure the incan will come on full power. I sure would like to totally resolve this issue which seems to have just started recently.

Anybody called surefire on this?


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## a99raptors (Apr 23, 2006)

It just happened to me too last night. At first it was just intermittent, then I just couldn't get the full incan power. Cleaned the tailcap and it didn't work. Then I tried the L2 tailcap on it and the same thing happened. So I just changed to a new set of batteries and now it works flawlessly. Hope it keeps up. BTW, I use SF123 cells. Is this a way some A2s let you know its time to swap new cells?


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## lightplay22 (Apr 28, 2006)

I just completed a major breakdown and cleaning that didn't help the problem at all. Tried new bulb-no difference. New set of batteries - problem is solved! Still don't understand because the batteries seem to be far from dead, but now I know what to do if this issue ever comes up again.

I'm happy now!

Its hard to sleep when my A2 is not working properly, LOL


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## KevinL (Apr 28, 2006)

Hmm.. it could be that the A2 bulb is very demanding of power with a relatively high out-of-regulation voltage, so the A2 falls out of regulation even while the cells still have sufficient juice. That would explain why it does it even while all my contacts are clean. Oh well. 

I kinda like the U2 a bit better, it steps down very gracefully all the way to level 1 and really sucks all the power out of batteries.

On the other hand that means the A2 might be more forgiving on R123s... maybe I need some. Where can I get the special ones that'll work?


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## a99raptors (Apr 28, 2006)

My U2 does not step down gracefully. 
once the level 6 stops running, it goes all the way to level 1.


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## KevinL (Apr 28, 2006)

With Surefire cells and their run-till-the-very-last-drop characteristics, my U2 goes from 6 to 1 straight away. With Batterystation cells and lithium ion cells the drop is considerably more graceful. Depends on your battery characteristics to some extent, too. Give it a try. 

Nice sig of yours too.. "I believe" - that was the start of my A2 review. I still believe too, I just need to find a good rechargeable solution for the A2 to keep tickin' on my watch.


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## greenLED (Apr 28, 2006)

I've been forgetting. The plastic lanyard ring on the A2 has to be pressed hard all the way into the body to allow the top of the battery tube to make proper contact with the tailcap. If the lanyard ring is a hair too high, that't prevent the light from operating normally. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with what you're seeing, but I figured it might help other folks reading the thread too.


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## Size15's (Apr 28, 2006)

greenLED said:


> I've been forgetting. The plastic lanyard ring on the A2 has to be pressed hard all the way into the body to allow the top of the battery tube to make proper contact with the tailcap. If the lanyard ring is a hair too high, that't prevent the light from operating normally. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with what you're seeing, but I figured it might help other folks reading the thread too.



I'm not sure which plastic component you are referring to - please can you clarify


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## Protaeus (Apr 28, 2006)

Im not sure that the lanyard ring on the A2 has anything to do with the switch operation. The lanyard ring and the recessed part ofthe tail cap that holds the ring is completely external and not near the threads or the body. 

:huh2:


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## dudemar (Aug 7, 2006)

:bump:


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## sig-in-tx (Aug 7, 2006)

Only trouble I have had with mine was the tail cap. You could push it in to get the high, But it wouldn't come on by screwing the cap down.
One E-mail to surefire they had me a new tail cap in less than a week. I use mine every day at work its dropped kicked you name it I have done it once or twice.
I wouldn't even guess how many cells I have went through. All Surefire brand. Guess I should replace the bulb, Its got to be near its end of life.


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