# Annoyed by non-flashaholics?



## markr6 (Apr 23, 2013)

Well, not necessarily annoyed by the actual person but the fact that they don't know any better. Do you ever feel this way?

For example, I was visiting my parents the other day and I noticed two flashlights my dad had by the furnace in the basement. Total junk! It was probably a $10-15 flashlight back in the mid-90's, but the output was just rediculous. Dim, orange donut beam that would maybe make it 50' with a 2'x'2 laser-tight spot.

My grandmother also moved into an apartment last month. We visited her and I saw some huge rubberized flashlight she had in her bedroom. It probably weighed 2lbs, put out next to no light (weak batteries probably 6 years old).

Of course, I think to myself "WHY???" I know it's just a flashlight to them and they could care less, which I don't get and almost annoys me. At least buy a decent Energizer LED at the hardware store for $15!! By the way, I gave my dad a Fenix E11 for a gift last year and I'm 99% sure he didn't open it and has no idea where it is. :shakehead


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## N_N_R (Apr 23, 2013)

kinda .... though not the very same situation... but my best friend has to go home in the dark for about five or so minutes in winter (I've seen her street and been there), it's literally no-light-total-darkness place. Somehow she bought a flashlight, may be after my 24/7 rants about it or may be God appeared to her and ordered her to do so... it's a cheap light, though, it has some LeD which is nowhere near the power of a normal light.. but this isn't even what I'm annoyed at but the fact she doesn't have it with her... wtf. And then I'm also annoyed when she calls me an addict and a maniac .... (may be for a reason though )


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## Norm (Apr 23, 2013)

markr6 said:


> Well, not necessarily annoyed by the actual person but the fact that they don't know any better. Do you ever feel this way?



Mark I feel that as a good flashaholic it is your duty to spread the word, by buying a quality flashlight for all of those folks, you will no longer have a reason to feel annoyed.

Problem solved :devil:

Norm


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## Cerealand (Apr 23, 2013)

That's what I did. My brothers and parents now all have Malkoff MD2s. There a sf 9p with a M61 in the living room and various 47's mini in their pocket for EDC.


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## appliancejunk (Apr 23, 2013)

I have found it a waste of time and money to buy friends and family good flashlight. Cash is the only gift worth giving. Everyone can buy their own toys then. Only took me 30 years of gift giving to figure that one out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Norm (Apr 23, 2013)

appliancejunk said:


> I have found it a waste of time and money to buy friends and family good flashlight.



On they contrary, I've found the single AAA flashlights I give as gifts to have been greatly appreciated, one gift often leads to enquiries from friends or relatives of the recipient asking where they can obtain their own.

Going out to lunch with an old friend today and have a Thrunite TI packed 

Norm


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## PANGES (Apr 23, 2013)

I think with any hobby-like thing, there are always threads like these. lol. With cars, it's "How can you drive such a crappy car?" With headphone forums, it's "how can you listen to those crappy ipod earbuds?" and likewise, with this forum, "how can you use such dim, crappy tinted flashlights?"

First world problems.


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## StarHalo (Apr 23, 2013)

That's pretty impressive that in both examples you were able to find the flashlight, and it actually lit when you turned it on. That's better preparedness than the majority of people have..


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## RIX TUX (Apr 23, 2013)

markr6 said:


> Well, not necessarily annoyed by the actual person but the fact that they don't know any better. Do you ever feel this way?
> 
> For example, I was visiting my parents the other day and I noticed two flashlights my dad had by the furnace in the basement. Total junk! It was probably a $10-15 flashlight back in the mid-90's, but the output was just rediculous. Dim, orange donut beam that would maybe make it 50' with a 2'x'2 laser-tight spot.
> 
> ...


thats funny.......my dad lives in the country and had a bunch of cheapies from gifts and a maglite 2 d cell that was always near dead, so I got him a streamlight polytac and after he used it once he loves it and always has it near, I now have to supply him with 123 batts or else he would be buying them at CVS for 12-15 $ a pair. And I had to get my mom a light because she kept using his and he couldn't find it.


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## Lou Minescence (Apr 23, 2013)

StarHalo said:


> That's pretty impressive that in both examples you were able to find the flashlight, and it actually lit when you turned it on. That's better preparedness than the majority of people have..



Very true. Usually the batteries are corroded and stuck in the light. Probably just as well the lights are cheap. Toss it and get another. An endless circle.


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## SeriouslyFlashlights (Apr 23, 2013)

I think it is mostly just ignorance. People just don't realize that there are a ton of better options then what the big box stores sell. I know in my case when I show people the difference between a regular old flashlight vs a good flashlight they are always shocked. It's just a matter of pointing some people in the right direction, other people on the other hand will never care since it's just a flashlight to them. They don't care if it's great or not as long as it produces some light.


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## RIX TUX (Apr 23, 2013)

Retail stores dont really have good lights at good prices, they only have below average lights so the non lovers dont know whats out there. Every time I check out the stores it makes me laugh. The best light in a store has 150 lumens and cost 40 dollars.


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## Treeguy (Apr 23, 2013)

I enjoy non-flasaholics because to them my Surefire makes me look cool.


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## TEEJ (Apr 23, 2013)

LOL

Thank god I don't get annoyed, there's so MANY of them.



We are a minority...a small one. So are aficionados of many many hobbies as well.


An uncle of mine gave me a stamp collecting kit when I was a kid...I pasted the stamps that came with it into the book, and haven't seen it since. Its didn't register as important or interesting to me.


THAT is how what we are interested in feels like to everyone ELSE.


You really can't expect people to even get excited by finding out there's really way better flashlights...that doesn't MEAN anything to them. They are not into flashlights because there are no cool ones in the hardware store....they are not into flashlights because flashlights, as a concept, are of no interest to them.


Now, that said, these things are on a sliding scale...just like every other interest you may have.

So, SOME random souls will see your light, and GET interested...but never ever ASSUME that someone will when you show them. It will ANNOY the hell out of them.




A small victory - I was doing a forensic inspection, and the property manager at the site was a little old lady. She wanted to show me an area of concern where there was no electricity (Hurricane Sandy), and she was holding a 2D red plastic flashlight that looked as if it had been flotsam or jetsam at one point in its history. The plastic lens was yellowed and even a bit warped, scratched to heck, etc. 

I had a Klarus XT11 in my pocket, and a few other small bright lights. She asks if I have a flashlight, because its really dark down there....I say sure, and hold up my keychain, which, of course, had a keychain light on it.

She looks at me like I'm insane, and says reassuringly, "Well, at least* I *came prepared"...

So we head own into the dark dank subterranean levels, and she has her flashlight on, and there's a dim yellow spot a foot across, as in LITERALLY 1 candle's worth at a distance...with a hole in its middle...pretty useless. I'm grinning from ear to ear, WAITING to turn on the wee keychain light.

I finally said, wait, your light is too dim, I need to use a brighter flashlight....she thinks I'm going back to the truck, and I take the key chain light, and hit the turbo and ~ 500 lumens blasts out, filling the chamber with light as if the room had a light switch and bright lamps on.

The little old lady said "HOLY F.......!!!!!!", and dropped her light, which shattered all over the stone floor......and I casually mentioned that lights don't need to be as large any more. 

I then mentioned they can be tougher too, and threw it onto the floor next to hers, showed it wasn't damaged, and then went about my business.

Later, up top again, she asked what kind of light it was and a few other questions. Its seems that up to THAT point, her idea of a flashlight was to get one as cheap as possible, preferably at a yard sale for a few cents, and use old batteries in it to save even more money. She was PROUD of how cheap that light had been she just had...THAT had been her interest.

By the time I left, she was copying down sites that had lights, cells and chargers. 

:devil:






PS - If you're here now, sorry....no offense.


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## Gun (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't feel this way since I'm not really a flashaholic yet but I'm sure I will eventually, sort of like I do about computers now


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## Risky (Apr 23, 2013)

It's a combination of ignorance and that people are mostly cheap and won't pay more than 5 bucks for a flashlight they barely use except for emergencies. 

My friend thought I was crazy for spending a hundred bucks on a surefire flashlight. He's also the same person who spent 500 on an Eotech for his rifle. Go figure.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 23, 2013)

SeriouslyFlashlights said:


> I think it is mostly just ignorance. People just don't realize that there are a ton of better options then what the big box stores sell. I know in my case when I show people the difference between a regular old flashlight vs a good flashlight they are always shocked. It's just a matter of pointing some people in the right direction, other people on the other hand will never care since it's just a flashlight to them. They don't care if it's great or not as long as it produces some light.



I'm going to play devils advocate 

Perhaps they're more interested in cars, "Hey, why don't you tweak the airflow ratio of your Ford Escort, maybe swap those with aftermarket platinum plugs, you can boost your pound-feet torque ratio from 126 to 150 with no decrease in-..."
...(snooooze)
Perhaps they're more into sewing, "Hey, this pattern #12 has double over pearl stitching, uses organic free trade hand wound yarn from Cairo, I think the 12-strand hemp gives a nice seam quality that is unlikely to-....
(...snooooze)
or perhaps computers? "Hey, by modifying the front fan air duct and installing a Corsair Hydro intercooler bridged to the chipset heat sink, coupled with vibration dampening and jelly grommets and tweaking the bus speed multiplier to 3.2 I boosted the clock speed to 1.37 giga-....."
(...snooooze)

The fact is no one Cares. Nobody. It's just another 'somebodies' hobby.


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## TEEJ (Apr 23, 2013)

ledmitter_nli said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate
> 
> Perhaps they're more interested in cars, "Hey, why don't you tweak the airflow ratio of your Ford Escort, maybe swap those with aftermarket platinum plugs, you can boost your pound-feet torque ratio from 126 to 150 with no decrease in-..."
> ...(snooooze)
> ...



LOL

You & I said the same thing.


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## Slazmo (Apr 23, 2013)

I like being the guy that asks someone at night when they're shining their torch around - 'so what torch do you have' I'll ask... The Answer = this uber sweet LED $25 torch off ebay with red led in the centre so that I can see at night... My response - 'Ahh thats cool mate...' So the guy usually asks what light do you have yourself. Depending on what I am doing I usually show him and the convo goes quiet from there on... The response is usually 'where and how much?'...

My mother is a recent convert into better torches, whatever I upgrade to I give her my older offerings. I also managed to convert a girl at work to carry a EDC - so I got her a X1DM-GT so its downhill for her now.


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## Mikeg23 (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't get annoyed by non-flashaholics or even people that are ill prepared. I do get annoyed when people who should know better don't take care of things and then get irritated when they don't work properly. With flashlights the key thing is batteries!


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 23, 2013)

People won't take interest unless it pays into something that motivates them. Usually, Fear. Money. Happiness.

You might give a nod to flashlights and fear. Everyone feels the need for self preservation so their learning about ultra portable and BRIGHT illumination amidst darkness might inspire inquisitive questions.

Light is essential. Where'as an iPod or an electric shaver isn't so much.


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## Erik1213 (Apr 23, 2013)

There is only one thing that annoys me about non-flashaholics. When they walk up with a huge 3D MagLite and shine it on the floor and say, "Mine's brighter!".

If I could get them in the woods on a cloudy night, then they would realize why a 900 lumen pocket floodlight is nicer than a 120 lumen spot beam Mag.


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## enomosiki (Apr 23, 2013)

Non-flashaholics don't annoy me. For most people, they just haven't realized the value of having quality illumination tool available to them. Even the ones that do have yet to realize that there is a much larger selection available on the Internet than what they can see on store shelves.

However, I do get annoyed when people proclaim how carrying flashlights is useless, and trying to mock me for doing so. Ironically, they are the first ones to come to me, begging for a loaner when they need a light. I had a coworker that used to question the flashlights that I carried, which ended the moment when I refused to lend him any of my lights after he lost his keys--car and house--somewhere inside the building.

I do have great time having conversations with LEOs, EMTs and soldiers. Most aren't flashaholics, but they know the value of having light in darkness and have something of nerdgasms upon witnessing my CX2DL.


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## david57strat (Apr 23, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> LOL
> 
> Thank god I don't get annoyed, there's so MANY of them.
> 
> ...



It sounds like you've won over a new convert for the cause. Well done!

I very much enjoyed reading this account of your experience with the little old lady property manager and her old 2D light that barely lit up much of anything. It reminds me, very much, of my dad. He's got this old rubberized 2D light that is exactly the same deal. Big, bulky thing that, even with two brand new alkaline batteries, provides no more light than a Mini Mag AA incandescent. In fact, far worse light than one of those. I threw a spare bulb that I had from an old 2D Maglite in it, and it helped the beam...a little; but it's still a very inefficient relic of a light; super low power light with almost no spill, and a very poor hotspot, by today's standards.

I've gifted him maybe three or four far nicer lights, some of which he keeps in the family room, and one by his desk (Gotta give him props for that); but for some reason, he seems to hang on to that old rubberized flashlight. I have no idea why. Truly, it barely lights up anything, even closeby, let alone, a large room, and it weighs a ton, by comparison, to those other lights I've given him. I gave him a Nite Ize LED upgraded 4D Maglite, some years ago. Not a million dollar light (or upgrade, for that matter), but, up until that time, I seem to recall he was carrying a 2AA Mini Mag incandescent in the car. Being a flashaholic, it made no sense to me. 

The car is the one place where you should always have at least one decent light that ALWAYS works; no matter who you are; no matter what you drive; that and a basic tool box/kit. If you get stuck out at night, you need to see, and/or be seen. You may need to look under the hood, or light up the area you're working in, while you change out a tire, or even lay out some flares...or even just wait for help to arrive (If you've called AAA, or whomever, to help you out), assuming your car is completely dead, and your emergency flashers aren't working well, or at all - particularly if you're on a poorly, or not lit street, where you could easily be hit by a car.

I mean...you'd think that'd be common sense, and everyone would be equipped with suitable light, right? So many people just refuse to carry, or even have a decent light within convenient reach - even if just for those rare times, when, in an emergency, it could actually save their lives. I just do not get that. So, I'm a strong proponent of gifting lights to people who might, otherwise, be light-less. Usually, it's at least somewhat appreciated.

If you live in a place where power outtages are common, you should have at least one or two perfectly functioning flashlights, and a slew of extra batteries for both. Candles, you say? Yeah yeah...seriously, who uses candles any more, in this day and age - other than on birthday cakes?

That is not a rhetorical question, by the way...

Yes, I am a proud flashaholic, and am very often seen as a flashlight weirdo (by non-flashaholics) -until a power outtage hits, or they need a light, for whatever reason (and they don't have one); then, I'm a hero.

Works for me.

So - back on-point - yes, I do get somewhat annoyed, feel truly sorry for, and just do not understand non-flashaholics, any more than they don't understand me.

Thanks for hearing my two cents' worth.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 23, 2013)

The uninitiated actually *expect* a flashlight to have a characteristic yellow spot with that hole in the center. It's emblematic. They won't know any better. Yeah sure there are 1,000 lumen alternatives, but the thought of 1,000 lumens (as we understand it) is alien to their brick-and-morter familiarized notion of what a flashlight should be. 2 D cells and an incandescent.

They wouldn't know what to do with all those lumens at first sight 

Just think, the majority of us here we're in that same camp...


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## david57strat (Apr 23, 2013)

Norm said:


> Mark I feel that as a good flashaholic it is your duty to spread the word, by buying a quality flashlight for all of those folks, you will no longer have a reason to feel annoyed.
> 
> Problem solved :devil:
> 
> Norm



Agreed. When you care enough about someone to give them a decent light, at the very least, the benefits are two-fold:

1. The recipient wil be equipped with a small, but relatively inexensive tool that could someday actually save his or her life. Worst case, it will be something that can become very convenient and easily useful - if they can just get themselves to keep it on-hand (in their car; at their desk; on their workbench...wherever - but someplace handy.
2. You open them up to the possibiltiy of understanding the flashaholic somewhat better. When they have a nice light in their hands, and put it to good use for the very first time, the lightbulb can finally go off in (some of) their heads (no pun intended), as they realize...doffffff....I had NO idea nicer, not-astronmically-expensive lights have been available to me all this time, and I never knew they were out there! Sure would be nice to have something in my garage, in my tool box, or (you enter convenient location here).

That's a true convert.

It's a whole new (well-lit) world - and now, with the plethora of lights available (mostly on-line,but who cares?), the sky (and what's available in their pocketbook) is the limit.


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## Norm (Apr 24, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> LOLWe are a minority...a small one. So are aficionados of many many hobbies as well.
> 
> 
> An uncle of mine gave me a stamp collecting kit when I was a kid...I pasted the stamps that came with it into the book, and haven't seen it since. Its didn't register as important or interesting to me.
> ...



A flashlight will be seen by most recipients a far more useful than a stamp collection.

The Thrunite TI I gifted at lunch was very well received :wow: :thanks:

Norm


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## buds224 (Apr 24, 2013)

Not necessarily annoyed by them being non-flashaholics, but more upset that they do not understand that everyone has hobbies, and collecting flashlights happens to be one of my many hobbies. It shouldn't be THAT strange.


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## Slazmo (Apr 24, 2013)

people collect all manners of things be it horns of animals, or hub caps... You only have to walk past some peoples houses and notice 'WTF' - makes collecting torches look tame!

I would love to collect some more fancy torches and would absolutely cherish a nice Ti Sunwayman - however funds of that nature are non existent in my pockets...


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## appliancejunk (Apr 24, 2013)

Risky said:


> It's a combination of ignorance and that people are mostly cheap and won't pay more than 5 bucks for a flashlight they barely use except for emergencies.
> 
> My friend thought I was crazy for spending a hundred bucks on a surefire flashlight. He's also the same person who spent 500 on an Eotech for his rifle. Go figure.



Exactly, so to each their own. Cash is king, even when gifting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ev13wt (Apr 24, 2013)

Seriously. Any light is a good light. If it puts out light, it is good enough for 80% of uses.


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## markr6 (Apr 24, 2013)

WOAH!! Ton of responses here! Everyone seems to have a good take on this.

Regarding the E11 gift to my dad - I probably should have put a battery in and showed him the UI so he would know how nice it was. He probably thought "I already have a dozen flashlights" and threw it in a drawer.


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## neutralwhite (Apr 24, 2013)

someone who lives some few doors away from me, who has seen me with a flashlight concealing it in my jacket often, has told my other neighbour she believes im like an FBI MI5 Spy & not to tell me anything ever. lool!.


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## Treeguy (Apr 24, 2013)

Norm said:


> A flashlight will be seen by most recipients a far more useful than a stamp collection.
> 
> Norm



Every Christmas my wife whines about what to get her father. I tell her to get him a flashlight. She says she got him a flashlight five-years ago. I tell her a woman can get a man a flashlight and/or knife every birthday and Christmas until time itself comes to an end, and he will always love the gift.

She just doesn't get it.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Apr 24, 2013)

flashaholics are a special breed, or are we sick? , 99% of people do not understand, they do not prepare for anything, not even a $1 flashlight, but if the power went out, they would be knocking on your door to borrow a flashlight soon enough, or any other of your emergency supplies it makes me sick.

John.


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## JCD (Apr 24, 2013)

Erik1213 said:


> If I could get them in the woods on a cloudy night, then they would realize why a 900 lumen pocket floodlight is nicer than a 120 lumen spot beam Mag.



In the woods, clouds or not, I'd much rather have the incan Mag. Better still would be my stock 9P. Brighter is not the same as more useful.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 24, 2013)

JCD said:


> In the woods, clouds or not, I'd much rather have the incan Mag. Better still would be my stock 9P. Brighter is not the same as more useful.



Yup, for camp and woods an incandescent like Malkoff M61WLL with 70 lumens is pretty darn easy on the eyes.


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## Roger Sully (Apr 24, 2013)

I have a few friends that have come to their senses after I give them the "If it was going to rain, you would carry an umbrella right? You know that it gets dark everynight......"


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## xevious (Apr 24, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> Thank god I don't get annoyed, there's so MANY of them.
> We are a minority...a small one. So are aficionados of many many hobbies as well.


Absolutely.

My parents had been buying these $5 cheap single mode 9-LED lights from supermarkets and hardware stores. They take 3 AAA batteries. And they last maybe 2-3 battery changes, then stop working. Junk. I estimated that they'd spent over $50 on these across the span of 2-3 years. So I gave them an Olight S35 that I'd bought used for $40. My mother thought I was nuts to spend that much, and then her jaw dropped when I said the new price was more like $85. Still, she couldn't deny that the light is top quality. And now it's the only light they use. The others have been tucked into a drawer for 'emergency use'. 

The "flashlight mentality" most people have is similar to digital watches: they are cheap and when they stop working, just buy another. Well anybody who knows anything about watches will know that beyond super cheap digital watches are very high quality ones like G-Shocks that can last for decades easily.

So I'm not annoyed... I understand why people don't appreciate quality flashlights. It's just an opener to start preaching about the merits of a quality LED light. When you've got a convert, you feel like you've done your duty.


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## DellSuperman (Apr 24, 2013)

HSG said:


> I have a few friends that have come to their senses after I give them the "If it was going to rain, you would carry an umbrella right? You know that it gets dark everynight......"



Well said..! Hahaha..! 

JonK

Sent from my Awesome phone from somewhere in the mountains


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## subwoofer (Apr 24, 2013)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Light is essential. Where'as an iPod or an electric shaver isn't so much.



Good discussion point thread, and I've singled out this reply to give my opinion.

As a devout flashaholic myself, I do have to put my interest into perspective.

We (the human race) have survived without flashlights for millions of year. Our eyes are fantastically sensitive and allow us to make use of tiny amounts of light. Flashlights are NOT essential, and in fact many will see their smart phone as more important. Smart phones allow many people to switch on the camera flash, or simply use the screen's backlight to see if they have to, so why would they invest in a 'proper' flashlight.

Even the nastiest of nasty flashlight beams allows our amazing eyes to see. Yes a better source of light makes it easier, but you have to remember that a flashlight is not a requirement and for many a rarely used item.

What do you ever really need and can't do without. Not much, we are adaptable and that is why we are the dominant species.

So to the OP, no I am not at all annoyed by non-flashaholics, I just keep a single AA 5mmLED light as a loaner (which seems to impress most) and enjoy the better lights myself.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 24, 2013)

^^^ I said light is essential. Not flashlights  Important distinction.


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## ryukin2000 (Apr 24, 2013)

i gave my dad a 2D mag with Malkoff X-pg and a crenelated bezel, he didn't seem to care too much. i even spent 5 mins showing him the before out put and then the after. but last time i went to visit at night and parked in the back alley, he came out shining it around to see who it was. i am glad he uses it now. i like the size because it will be harder for him to lose.


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## gravelmonkey (Apr 24, 2013)

neutralwhite said:


> someone who lives some few doors away from me, who has seen me with a flashlight concealing it in my jacket often, has told my other neighbour she believes im like an FBI MI5 Spy & not to tell me anything ever. lool!.



That wouldn't be the Elzetta and the MP5 it's attached to, would it? :nana:


Also, to the OP, I'm not really annoyed by non-flashaholics- What's better than a non-flashaholic commenting "that's a bright light" when you have something set on low/medium and watching their face when you bump it up to high!?


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## markr6 (Apr 24, 2013)

gravelmonkey said:


> Also, to the OP, I'm not really annoyed by non-flashaholics- What's better than a non-flashaholic commenting "that's a bright light" when you have something set on low/medium and watching their face when you bump it up to high!?



Yeah I know, I've gotten that a lot already and sometimes feel a little bad when showing someone up 

"Annoyed" is probably too strong of a word...not sure of the right word though but you get the idea.


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## JCD (Apr 24, 2013)

ledmitter_nli said:


> JCD said:
> 
> 
> > _In the woods, clouds or not, I'd much rather have the incan Mag. Better still would be my stock 9P. Brighter is not the same as more useful._
> ...



Make it a high CRI Malkoff, and it might start to approach the 9P's usefulness in that environment.


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## xevious (Apr 24, 2013)

subwoofer said:


> We (the human race) have survived without flashlights for millions of year. Our eyes are fantastically sensitive and allow us to make use of tiny amounts of light. Flashlights are NOT essential, and in fact many will see their smart phone as more important. Smart phones allow many people to switch on the camera flash, or simply use the screen's backlight to see if they have to, so why would they invest in a 'proper' flashlight.


I beg to differ. Yes, we can get by without light but the _advantage_ of portable light is phenomenal. It can make the difference between life or death, so necessity is conditional. Think of people lost in the dark too. If portable light wasn't a necessity, nobody would've bothered with flaming torches and candles before the advent of electricity.

The good thing is that some smart phones have decent LED's built in for the primary purpose of assisting the camera, but apps can commandeer them for use as a flashlight. My HTC Evo 3D has a set of twin LED's that are really bright. Frankly, I don't really need another light for use at home during the night. I still find the form factor of something like a NovaTac 120P is just easier to handle. But for a non-flashaholic, LED enabled smart phones are pretty decent substitutes.


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## SemiMan (Apr 24, 2013)

markr6 said:


> Well, not necessarily annoyed by the actual person but the fact that they don't know any better. Do you ever feel this way?
> 
> For example, I was visiting my parents the other day and I noticed two flashlights my dad had by the furnace in the basement. Total junk! It was probably a $10-15 flashlight back in the mid-90's, but the output was just rediculous. Dim, orange donut beam that would maybe make it 50' with a 2'x'2 laser-tight spot.
> 
> ...




The reality markr6, is there are likely things about flashlights and lighting that you believe or do that would make a real expert be "annoyed".

Guess what, they are not the problem, you are. Yup, it's true.

You are being judgmental, plain and simple.

Let it go, you will live longer.



Semiman


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## SeriouslyFlashlights (Apr 24, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> LOL
> 
> A small victory - I was doing a forensic inspection, and the property manager at the site was a little old lady. She wanted to show me an area of concern where there was no electricity (Hurricane Sandy), and she was holding a 2D red plastic flashlight that looked as if it had been flotsam or jetsam at one point in its history. The plastic lens was yellowed and even a bit warped, scratched to heck, etc.




This made me laugh, I actually have this flashlight. It sounds identical, it's horrid but I keep it anyway. It's more of a collectible to me lol.


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## subwoofer (Apr 25, 2013)

xevious said:


> I beg to differ. Yes, we can get by without light but the _advantage_ of portable light is phenomenal. It can make the difference between life or death, so necessity is conditional. Think of people lost in the dark too. If portable light wasn't a necessity, nobody would've bothered with flaming torches and candles before the advent of electricity.
> 
> The good thing is that some smart phones have decent LED's built in for the primary purpose of assisting the camera, but apps can commandeer them for use as a flashlight. My HTC Evo 3D has a set of twin LED's that are really bright. Frankly, I don't really need another light for use at home during the night. I still find the form factor of something like a NovaTac 120P is just easier to handle. But for a non-flashaholic, LED enabled smart phones are pretty decent substitutes.



The point I was making is that a flashlight is NOT a survival essential and although, as you say, it can certainly give you an advantage, most people do not see it as essential.

Interestingly, as life changes and we spend more time inside (inside buildings, in underground places) we have more need to have our own portable lighting. However the safety aspect is taken care of for most of us, as all of these places must have emergency lighting fitted as standard, so removing the need in most peoples eyes.

We are prepared to carry a dedicated light, because we want to and like them. For most this would just be annoying to have to carry around.

However, something like the fauxton has proven to be a real eye opener for many people. I have gifted loads of these and typically I get the comment of how useful it has been. The average person will live without it, but do see how useful a light can be.

I'm here, I'm a flashaholic, and accept that I am abnormal.


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## bluemax_1 (Apr 25, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> A small victory - I was doing a forensic inspection, and the property manager at the site was a little old lady. She wanted to show me an area of concern where there was no electricity (Hurricane Sandy), and she was holding a 2D red plastic flashlight that looked as if it had been flotsam or jetsam at one point in its history. The plastic lens was yellowed and even a bit warped, scratched to heck, etc.
> 
> I had a Klarus XT11 in my pocket, and a few other small bright lights. She asks if I have a flashlight, because its really dark down there....I say sure, and hold up my keychain, which, of course, had a keychain light on it.
> 
> ...



So... what keychain light produces 500 lumens?


Max


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## Speedfreakz (Apr 25, 2013)

bluemax_1 said:


> So... what keychain light produces 500 lumens?
> 
> 
> Max



+1 I want one


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## parnass (Apr 25, 2013)

subwoofer said:


> ...
> However, something like the fauxton has proven to be a real eye opener for many people. I have gifted loads of these and typically I get the comment of how useful it has been. The average person will live without it, but do see how useful a light can be. ....



To the original poster: People with lesser quality flashlights don't bother me. I am glad they have some type of flashlight.

I gave away several fauxtons and one saved my dentist's life, as I posted here in 2009:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Key-chain-flashlight-saved-my-dentist-s-life

I haven't been billed for our family dental work since then.


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## kevleee1 (Apr 25, 2013)

Yes, the uninitiated in any hobby that you have an interest in and they do not is annoying but understandable. I am not a flashaholic by any means. I used to think Maglites were the high end of flashlights. I am warming up to this hobby though. I just acquired a Nitecore EA8 after briefly owning an EA4 (an awesome light by the way). I got Nebo Redline (I know, how could I) which promptly I returned. I own a Maglite XL50. My friends and family just yawns and thinks I'm crazy. I agree that to others it's just a hobby that they do not give any thoughts about. I like collecting and reading about wristwatches, but to others they are happy with $30 Timex. If I notice somebody with a nice flashlight, wristwatch, etc. that I recognize, I will bring up the the subject and mention it otherwise I assume that they have no interest and say nothing. To others they might call us idiot savants but I always say...."Those in the know know"


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## Quiksilver (Apr 25, 2013)

dont really care either way.

regardless of what you think, 99.9999% of people get on just fine with 1 or 0 flashlights in their possession.

I got on just fine without any, though I do enjoy the new possibilities afforded to me by having a bright and reliable flashlight in my possession. An example of this new possibility is night-hiking. Almost impossible, and dangerous is an understatement, unless one is carrying such an illumination tool. Most do not, and only hike while the sun is in the sky. 


One thing that DOES annoy me though, is that our police officers here are issued lights than run on 3xAAA cells. 

Other than that, couldn't care one way or another regarding peoples use of illumination tools.


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## SeriouslyFlashlights (Apr 25, 2013)

Quiksilver said:


> regardless of what you think, 99.9999% of people get on just fine with 1 or 0 flashlights in their possession.
> 
> .



Well this is true for most people...at least until a blizzard or a hurricane is on the way, then it is a mad rush to the store for flashlights and batteries. Shelves are emptied within minutes. I think flashlights are something that most people don't even think about until they really need one.


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## buds224 (Apr 25, 2013)

I remember the Southern California power outage clearly. It lasted long hours. As I was packing up out of our temporary stay at an apartment, people started offering money for my flashlights. I had a TK41 tailstanding lighting up the apartment and used my LD20 to get around and pack the car. It was the strangest night, it was so dark, you literally could not see anything but a few candles from a distance. It was amazing how unprepared that neighborhood was.

I sold none but feared I might get mugged for my equipment (flashlights, water bottles, emergency food supply). It's times like these I am just glad to be prepared, everyone else can just suck it until next time.


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## N_N_R (Apr 25, 2013)

Our new government elections will take place soon. Yesterday on the news they said that the guys who count the votes have been given flashlights so that they can count the votes even if there's power outage. Showing the flashlights, one of the "bosses", it seems, said, holding one of them: those are great, 9-led,very bright lights which would help in any situation: http://www.pakuya.com/upload/20111110/9_LED_mini_flashlight_9_led_mini.jpg

I was like... wtf


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## PANGES (Apr 25, 2013)

bluemax_1 said:


> So... what keychain light produces 500 lumens?
> 
> 
> Max



MBI HF.


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## bluemax_1 (Apr 26, 2013)

PANGES said:


> MBI HF.



Interesting. That Torpedo is especially interesting.


Max


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## subwoofer (Apr 26, 2013)

SeriouslyFlashlights said:


> Well this is true for most people...at least until a blizzard or a hurricane is on the way, then it is a mad rush to the store for flashlights and batteries. Shelves are emptied within minutes. I think flashlights are something that most people don't even think about until they really need one.



I've had to update your statement:

at least until a blizzard or a hurricane is on the way, then it is a mad rush to the store for _____________ and ______________. Shelves are emptied within minutes. I think ____________ are something that most people don't even think about until they really need one

For the generally unprepared, just fill in the blanks. This is not limited to flashlights.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 26, 2013)

I think it's totally understood what subwoofer means.  But you have to admit it'll be nearly impossible to tie fish lures without light, or fix a car engine *with* just the moonlight.


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## MikeSalt (Apr 26, 2013)

I shall soon be educating non-flashaholics when I thin out my collection. I shall only give them to people that I know will find a use for them, I wouldn't want them to be forgotten about in a drawer.


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## blub (Apr 26, 2013)

I hate when I see my brother, nephew or brother in law and they ask how much my lights cost in front of my wife! You can't believe the number of RA lights, Fenix, 4 7s......that only cost $20


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## buds224 (Apr 26, 2013)

blub said:


> I hate when I see my brother, nephew or brother in law and they ask how much my lights cost in front of my wife! You can't believe the number of RA lights, Fenix, 4 7s......that only cost $20



LOL....If I ever run into that dilemma, the value of my lights will be heavily discounted as well.


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## Norm (Apr 26, 2013)

My wife and I have an allowance that is to be spent however we both see fit no questions asked, no guilt no hidden flashlights or other trinkets.

Norm


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## whiteoakjoe (Apr 26, 2013)

Without to much bibliography, I was a CEO of a Law Enforcement Agency. for almost 10 years, and in that position served as a member of a state and local Emergency Management boards. The level of preparedness of most people, or comumities for that matter is really scary. The equipment, or supplies that they have on hand for any emergency or "loss of service" is quite inadequate. Flashlights are just one of the key peices of equipment that are essential, and a good indicator of the level of other "gear or supplies" that is on hand at a home. For some people it's just a matter of not being aware of the new lights on the market but in some instances its just apathy.


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## Terry M (Apr 26, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> LOL
> 
> Thank god I don't get annoyed, there's so MANY of them.
> 
> ...




Best. Post. Ever. 
I really enjoyed reading this. 

I work in the utilities field. We were issued some cheap, plastic 2D light that made the "yellow circle" and it was awful. Then we were issued MagLites - moreso for use as a weapon of sorts for protection. I have managed to get 3 of my co-workers into better lights. They still are getting the "cheapo" lights, but at least they have 300 lumens. And they have finally quite borrowing mine. :devil:


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## fyrstormer (Apr 26, 2013)

It's generally been my experience that people appreciate flashlights more once they have a really good one. They may never buy a second one, but they'll appreciate the one good one they have.


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## Erik1213 (Apr 28, 2013)

JCD said:


> In the woods, clouds or not, I'd much rather have the incan Mag. Better still would be my stock 9P. Brighter is not the same as more useful.



You can use the incan mag, I will use the Zebralight SC600w.:devil:


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## RIX TUX (Apr 28, 2013)

Erik1213 said:


> You can use the incan mag, I will use the Zebralight SC600w.:devil:



Ha.... Im with the Zebra.


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## degarb (Apr 28, 2013)

ledmitter_nli said:


> I'm going to play devils advocate
> 
> Perhaps they're more interested in cars, "Hey, why don't you tweak the airflow ratio of your Ford Escort, maybe swap those with aftermarket platinum plugs, you can boost your pound-feet torque ratio from 126 to 150 with no decrease in-..."
> ...(snooooze)
> ...



Yep.but what annoys us is how much better they would be doing all those things if they could see the hello what they doing! Get a zebra or hp11 Granny! Your stitching is crooked and your cookies would taste better if you could read the recipe! Also, Granny, no wonder you cannot find the "Any Key", you put the cpu in the wrong PCI slot.


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## ledmitter_nli (Apr 28, 2013)

degarb said:


> Yep.but what annoys us is how much better they would be doing all those things if they could see the hello what they doing! Get a zebra or hp11 Granny! Your sticking is crooked and your cookies would taste better if you could read the recipe!



Yep.but what annoys them is how much nicer your flashlight would look in your hands with better quality mittens, or how much quicker you reach your destination, or how much faster your beamshot videos process with a 1.21 gigawatt processor!


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## awyeah (Apr 29, 2013)

Norm said:


> On they contrary, I've found the single AAA flashlights I give as gifts to have been greatly appreciated, one gift often leads to enquiries from friends or relatives of the recipient asking where they can obtain their own. Going out to lunch with an old friend today and have a Thrunite TI packed  Norm


 I also usually get 1xAAA lights for friends, they're inexpensive and still way brighter than anything else they have. It had been the iTP A3, in the future it'll be the i3S or a Thrunite Ti. I always make sure to test my girlfriend's and parents' lights when I see them, changing batteries and keeping them charged is one thing they always forget.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 30, 2013)

Erik1213 said:


> You can use the incan mag, I will use the Zebralight SC600w.:devil:



I'm happy with my incan mags and I'd guarantee that they put out significantly more lumens than your Zebralight! :nana:

Not that any of my maglights are stock. 
You probably can't even set newspaper alight within a few seconds with your SC600w.


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## degarb (Apr 30, 2013)

awyeah said:


> I also usually get 1xAAA lights for friends, they're inexpensive and still way brighter than anything else they have. It had been the iTP A3, in the future it'll be the i3S or a Thrunite Ti. I always make sure to test my girlfriend's and parents' lights when I see them, changing batteries and keeping them charged is one thing they always forget.




Yeah, I have purchased 4 lsd's, charger, and halfway descent light for people that really need them. The light gets thrown in a trunk, batteries lost, and charger misplaced. It is like those people (probably the same people) that cannot follow a dosage on the side of a medicine bottle, and wonder why they don't get the results they need, or why there is a side effect.


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## Poppy (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't get annoyed by non-flashaholics.

Frankly the topic never comes up, unless I bring it up.

Depending upon how wide spread the power outage, and how long it runs, determines to a great extent how people behave. When superstorm Sandy caused widespread outages it was still cool enough outside that many in my neighborhood sat inside at the fireplace with a bottle of wine and a candle. They went to bed a little earlier. Although I offered for them to come to my house (with a generator) they declined saying that they had candles and a flashlight. They didn't want to leave the house unoccupied, or their dog alone.

Others passed the time playing games on their phones and recharging them in the car in the morning.

So for many... a single dimly lit flashlight (enough to keep them from tripping on the way to the bath-room) is enough.

My main concern, for the seniors in my family, is that they have some lights when the power goes out, so that they can safely get their flashlight, or to bed without tripping and getting hurt. So to that end, I've given each, my father, and father-in-law a "emergency power failure light" the type that has two heads and 7W bulbs. I modified it to use one of those 20 led sattelite camping lanterns. It'll put out about 30 lumins for 10-20 hours on a 6V sla. I also gave each an emergency power failure flashlight that plugs into the wall outlet. They'll have flashlights of their own, but if they are out of power beyond a couple of days, I'll just have them come here. Neither ever lets their car get lower than half a tank of gas.

One Christmas I gifted a dozen or so cheap, three led, 2D cell flashlights with fresh batteries. So that friends and other family members at least have a 30 lumin light that will shine for more than 24 hours.

EDIT: I also gifted my father and father-in-law chargers for their cell phones that they can plug into their car cigar lighters. From a prepairedness standpoint that may be more important than a flashlight. I was ready to make a 100 mile trip because I couldn't reach my dad, he had no power and his phone was dead.


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## Spork (Apr 30, 2013)

My grandpa is the only other I know that appreciates a good flashlight as I do. He would not spend as much as me but I have given him many of my out dated lights. I also agree for the most part its a waste to gift high end lights to the non flashaholic crowd. 

Another vote for single aaa lights as being a great gift. Actually I think single cell lights make the best gift lights as its easy for them to replace batteries and scavenge one from somewhere. A sk98 would be a very nice cheap gift light as well. Don't forget about pal or pak lights too. I've been hesitant to give anyone eneloops. Most people won't make the effort to even charge a battery. So yeah a cheap light with some cheap alkalines is the way to go. 

I'm fine not having a generator. Power failures here are rare but we have our bases covered with weather/sw/am/fm radios, flashlights, a solar charger and many eneloops. My wife also keeps several of the portable phone charges around. I'm not to crazy about candles in the house. If you have a lot in the fridge a generator could be useful I guess in a extended outage.


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## JCD (May 1, 2013)

Erik1213 said:


> JCD said:
> 
> 
> > _In the woods, clouds or not, I'd much rather have the incan Mag. Better still would be my stock 9P. Brighter is not the same as more useful._
> ...



Feel free. I'll continue using the tool best suited for the job.


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## SeriouslyFlashlights (May 1, 2013)

Poppy said:


> I don't get annoyed by non-flashaholics.
> 
> Frankly the topic never comes up, unless I bring it up.
> 
> ...



Sure these people can go a day without power, that's easy. The problems start when the power is still out two or three days later. That's what people never think about. I think after a couple of days your neighbors would be very eagar to take up your offer to come on over lol.


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## buds224 (May 1, 2013)

SeriouslyFlashlights said:


> Sure these people can go a day without power, that's easy. The problems start when the power is still out two or three days later. That's what people never think about. I think after a couple of days your neighbors would be very eagar to take up your offer to come on over lol.



Just to add to that.....there is a certain kind of comfort knowing the right light can be used for days (continuously, which equates to even more evenings when not used during the day) on a single cell, which can be reassuring if there are kids in the household. I can hear it now, "thanks Dad".


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## degarb (May 1, 2013)

Before I became a flashaholic, I always thought those super heavy D cell Maglights, were specifically designed to beat us non flashaholics, because of the annoyance of our luminescent ignorance.


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## guyg (May 3, 2013)

i got used to low information users as an avid knife user. The people i am around has no idea of quality or perfomance. I also gave up buying good knives or lites as gifts. I find something on the lower end of a good manufacture. Its sad when a good tool gets put in a drawer and forgotten.


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## cancow (May 4, 2013)

I would be annoyed with your own behavior. Your grandparents have flashlights that work and have worked in the past. From their point of view why would they waste money on something that serves them already? Up until a couple decades ago people did not feel they HAD to have the greatest, latest gadget to fulfill some perceived nich. Money used to be for living a decent life, now it is for fulfilling OCD materialism. But soon all this will change and people will look back at the greed of this era in both awe and disgust. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have a quality product than 100 pieces of junk, but this specialty everything is over the top. I see $300 bats and mitts in stores for 7 year olds. Something is very off these days. But maybe I am just getting old...


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## Erik1213 (May 4, 2013)

JCD said:


> Feel free. I'll continue using the tool best suited for the job.



Right. :thumbsup:


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## Poppy (May 5, 2013)

SeriouslyFlashlights said:


> Sure these people can go a day without power, that's easy. The problems start when the power is still out two or three days later. That's what people never think about. I think after a couple of days your neighbors would be very eagar to take up your offer to come on over lol.



Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I have back-ups, of my back-ups. Lanterns that run on rechargeable 6v SLAs, multiple 18650 batteries, and lights, and idk two dozen or so NiMH AAs, and AAAs. I have enough to supply my house and three or four others.

Back to the original poster, if your grandparents are happy with their 2D flashlights, you might just want to pick up a simple LED bulb replacement, and upgrade the incandescent light they are comfortable with, to one with a 30 lumin, long running LED. Walmart carries the rayovac brand for about $3.


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## jorn (May 5, 2013)

No. Im more annoyed over non-stampcollectors. Without stamps we would have no mail, and i wouldn't have had many flashlights at all. Non-stapmpcollectors dont think of surch issues at all :devil:


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## Cosmic Charlie (May 5, 2013)

No, they don't generally annoy me but rather I see this as a chance to showcase the lights I have and try and convert them to the "light" side


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## degarb (May 5, 2013)

cancow said:


> I would be annoyed with your own behavior. Your grandparents have flashlights that work and have worked in the past. From their point of view why would they waste money on something that serves them already? Up until a couple decades ago people did not feel they HAD to have the greatest, latest gadget to fulfill some perceived nich. Money used to be for living a decent life, now it is for fulfilling OCD materialism. But soon all this will change and people will look back at the greed of this era in both awe and disgust. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have a quality product than 100 pieces of junk, but this specialty everything is over the top. I see $300 bats and mitts in stores for 7 year olds. Something is very off these days. But maybe I am just getting old...




To me, the biggest problem with nonflashaholics, is that they think they can see, when they simply cannot. Good light is seeing well, not just seeing. I deal with this behavior daily. On one hand, it is better that we painters see better than the customer, who thinks they can see (but are really as blind as bats). On the other hand, I must constantly run around and make sure people are wearing their headlamps and lighting an area properly because I hate to pay for touchups.

At home, I am constantly in a state of disgust, because the wife and teen refuse to sweep and wash floors with headlamp--just lamp and window lighting.

I think paying $400 for a regulated ar reflector xml or nichia light really worth $60 to $100, indeed, is o.c.d. But clearly the $4 store light is not going to do what a $30 store light; and the $30 light is not going to do what the $60-$100 internet light will do. I can see paying $300 for a 3000lumen quad xml, if you must see 30 foot away--ie. you are a electric pole worker. Though, beyone 18 to 24 foot away, a painter can just about get away with dollar bill sized skips outside in high noon. (Which is why shoddy painters can paint one house after another on a street, as long as they are cheap and fast.)


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## JCD (May 5, 2013)

Poppy said:


> Back to the original poster, if your grandparents are happy with their 2D flashlights, you might just want to pick up a simple LED bulb replacement, and upgrade the incandescent light they are comfortable with, to one with a 30 lumin, long running LED. Walmart carries the rayovac brand for about $3.



Are quality LED's available in that form factor?

Incandescent lights' reputation for providing a dim, sickly yellow beam is primarily due to the fact that people try to completely drain their alkaline (or "heavy duty") cells before replacing them, due to battery cost. The issue is with the battery technology, not the emitter technology. Perhaps a better option would be to invest in some D cell Eneloops and a smart charger, so that the grandparents have good batteries in their flashlight. With a battery that retains a charged when not used, and has a flatter discharge curve (compared to alkalines) in use, there's nothing wrong with using a 2D incan light for tasks around the house.


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## dougie (May 5, 2013)

I am a flashaholic but understand why some/most people aren't bothered too much about a flashlight. However, I have been a EMT/paramedic for 27 years and have seen and experienced first hand how little money that the UK ambulance, police and fire services are prepared to spend on flashlights. Unfortunately. I've seen plenty of situations where emergency workers simply can't safely illuminate things they need to see to be able to safely and efficiently do their jobs. I've seen staff issued with non intrinsically safe flashlights and then go into explosive environments completely ignorant of the risks that the cheap flashlight they have been issued with poses simply because they know no better. I also have seen police officers trying to carry out searches using pathetic and useless 2 x AA flashlights! If this isn't bad enough a great many of these emergency workers wouldn't countenance spending a few pounds of their own money to buy a good flashlight arguing that the service they work for should supply it. Needless to say these folks were always the first ones to ask to borrow my self purchased light when they couldn't see anything!


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## Poppy (May 5, 2013)

JCD said:


> Are quality LED's available in that form factor?
> 
> Incandescent lights' reputation for providing a dim, sickly yellow beam is primarily due to the fact that people try to completely drain their alkaline (or "heavy duty") cells before replacing them, due to battery cost. <snip>.



I think the form factor is called a 2P bulb. The Rayovac ones at Walmart give a blue beam, not something a flashaholic would be particularly happy about, but it will last for about 50-60 hours in a 2D, and 80 hours in a 3D cell. I don't know if there are better ones available.


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## bluemax_1 (May 5, 2013)

degarb said:


> To me, the biggest problem with nonflashaholics, is that they think they can see, when they simply cannot.



This made me LOL and recall something from high school.

A group of us went on a guided spelunking trip. This was back way before LED flashlights, and even headlamp options were pretty limited. The only bright headlamps with any decent runtime were the carbide lamps. I brought the brightest light I had (6v 4 D-cell with a big reflector) with a set of new batteries plus a set of spare batteries. We get to the caves and the guides give us a safety briefing and I turn to my buddy and ask, "where's your flashlight?". He replies, "I didn't bring one. I'm going to let my eyes adapt to the darkness".

The guide looks at him, pauses, and then starts laughing. He then tells us, "Where we're going, there is NO light except what we bring with us". At one point, he has the whole group stop and turn off all our lights and tells us to stand still with our eyes closed for about 5 minutes. Then he tells us to open our eyes and see what we can see with our lights off. 

That was the darkest darkness I've ever seen. Amazingly, not one single person in the group had a Tritium or GITD watch bezel. There was literally no light at all. I waved my hand in front of my face and couldn't see anything. I actually put my hand on my face because I began to doubt that it was in front of my face.

Of course, my buddy was trying to borrow everyone else's flashlight.


Max


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## JCD (May 5, 2013)

Poppy said:


> I think the form factor is called a 2P bulb. The Rayovac ones at Walmart give a blue beam, not something a flashaholic would be particularly happy about, but it will last for about 50-60 hours in a 2D, and 80 hours in a 3D cell. I don't know if there are better ones available.



In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.


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## bluemax_1 (May 5, 2013)

JCD said:


> In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.



Not necessary for general usage, but in an extended power outage?


Max


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## JCD (May 5, 2013)

bluemax_1 said:


> Not necessary for general usage, but in an extended power outage?
> 
> 
> Max



That's one situation for which long runtime would be beneficial. I think for most people, though, extended power outages are relatively rare, and should not be a primary consideration in a household light, especially considering how little light is needed during power outages compared to more common tasks requiring a household light.

Power outages are easily handled with candles, or even cheap LED lights poorly suited for anything else. Many folks opt to simply go to bed when it gets dark. Of all the inconveniences associated with an extended power outage, lack of light is pretty low on the list.


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## Poppy (May 5, 2013)

Max,
I can relate to cave darkness. Years ago we took a tour at Luray Caverns in Virginia. They had the paths lined with electric lights, but at a certain point they also did a darkness demonstration.
After superstorm Sandy, I was in a number of 2 story apartment buildings after the power had been out for a few days. The emergency light batteries were dead. The halls had no windows, and no light at all. It reminded me of the cave darkness I experienced years before. I now carry a keychain light everywhere I go, because.... you never know.


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## Poppy (May 5, 2013)

JCD said:


> In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.



JCD, you make a decent argument for keeping the incandescent bulb. However there are certain provisions to make it a winable argument.
1. The incan version of the 3D light only runs for 6-8 hours. With brand new3 batteries at the start of a power outage, that may buy the owner 2-3 nights of light. Assuming that the batteries are fresh! What if they are servicable, but at only 75% capacity? Then they are looking at maybe 2 nights, and just a glowing filament on the third. 
2. "Always haveing a fresh set of batteries available is important..." I fully agree, however, I suspect that most people, do not have spare fresh batteries.
3. "switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted" I compared the 3D maglight with the incandescent, to a 2D rayovac LED. Indoors the light is different, primarily by tint. Outdoors, the mag has greater throw, and reminded me of why the maglight was the best, in it's time. For everyday indoor chores, the difference is negligible. 

IMO, the difference in run-time is really significant. Back in the day when all lights were incandescent, more often than not, if one picked up a flashlight to use, the batteries were half dead. Afterall, they really only had a 2-3 hour runtime on carbon batteries. Alkalines picked them up to 4-5 hours. With an LED we are talking about a ten times improvement in run times. 

So let's consider a 3D mag. After 4 hours of use (incan) it will be at 50% capacity, yet at 4 hours use (LED) it will be at 95% capacity. The incan will have a demonstrabile decrease in output, and the LED will not. For the next couple of hours the LED will have an output advantage. (until you change the batteries in the incan) provided of course that you have them, or they are obtainable. IF NOT... then the incan is dead, and the LED has 70 hours of useable light.


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## JCD (May 5, 2013)

Poppy said:


> JCD, you make a decent argument for keeping the incandescent bulb. However there are certain provisions to make it a winable argument.
> 1. The incan version of the 3D light only runs for 6-8 hours. With brand new3 batteries at the start of a power outage, that may buy the owner 2-3 nights of light. Assuming that the batteries are fresh! What if they are servicable, but at only 75% capacity? Then they are looking at maybe 2 nights, and just a glowing filament on the third.
> 2. "Always haveing a fresh set of batteries available is important..." I fully agree, however, I suspect that most people, do not have spare fresh batteries.
> 3. "switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted" I compared the 3D maglight with the incandescent, to a 2D rayovac LED. Indoors the light is different, primarily by tint. Outdoors, the mag has greater throw, and reminded me of why the maglight was the best, in it's time. For everyday indoor chores, the difference is negligible.
> ...



I'm afraid you missed my point, which was the shortcomings of the lights mentioned by the OP have nothing to do with the emitter type and everything to do with the battery type. Switching from incandescent to incan won't solve the problem. As you said, indoors there is little difference between the LED and the incan lamp, except for tint (an important consideration for me, but not for most people), but outdoors the advantage goes to the incan (by a large margin, in my experience).

The best upgrade for the light would be a couple pair (or three pair in the case of a 3D light) of D size Eneloops (or similar LSD NiMH cells). That ensures the user will always have at least one fresh battery of cells for the light. Switching from alkaline chemistry should also improve runtime and provide more even output over most of the discharge. Just as important, Eneloops won't leak inside the flashlight while it sits unused in a drawer, rendering the light inoperable, no matter its emitter type. Switching the emitter to LED doesn't address those issues (not even the runtime in many cases, since most people are reluctant to throw out primary cells that aren't completely dead). Switching the battery type addresses all of them.

For a household light, even 2-3 hours of runtime is far more than is needed for the overwhelming majority of tasks. For the rare extended power outage, a 2D cell single mode light is WAY overkill for ambient lighting, regardless of emitter type. A different light, ideally something that does have very long runtimes, should be used for that task, assuming a flashlight it used for that task at all. (A small, efficient LED based light designed for AC power, plugged into a battery backup, would be an alternate, arguably better, solution. Candles are another viable option, one that many people would find the most practical. More and more people are utilizing gasoline powered generators for extended power outages.)


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## Bullzeyebill (May 5, 2013)

I'm jumping in here as a fellow flashaholic. I am mostly in agreement with JDC. I went for years and years without using flashlights during power outages. I used candles, mini mags, D cell mags, camping lanterns, both gasoline and white gas, and later some of the newer, then, florescent lamps. Never felt the need to use different sources of lighting. I now chose to use LED lights, and other special lights, for my emergency lighting. I should qualify that statement by saying that as a flashaholic I would rather use my LED lights, and some of my higher power incan lights, than turn on an AC light at night. This because I know that my special flashlights are a hobby with me, and I enjoy using them. If I say otherwise, then I am just rationalizing the uses of my flashlights as a necessity, instead of a pleasure.

Bill


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