# Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .



## marcis

Just noticed these two new flashlights listed on Zebralights product comparison chart. Listed as 3x 18650 in flood, and spot/spill models. I am generally an AA guy, but may try this light due to the output.


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## candle lamp

That's good & awesome news.


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## Shenanigans

Saweet, hopefully they aren't terribly expensive because I will have both of them. The specs say 3.5" & 4" length, either that's an error, or it's going to be an interesting design.


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## leon2245

> The specs say 3.5" & 4" length, either that's an error, or it's going to be an interesting design.


 
Yeah that doesn't sound right, but considering the trend lately is toward "soup can" ergonomics, you never know.


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## RedForest UK

That could possibly be right for the 'bare' emitter version with 3 18650's side by side..


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## NickBose

leon2245 said:


> "soup can" ergonomics



I'd choose soup can ergonomic over toilet plunger ergonomic without a blink.

Soup can or not, i almost get the Dry 3xXML at cnqualitygoods but this really made me think twice. I will most likely hold off and wait.


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## hazna

NickBose said:


> Soup can or not, i almost get the Dry 3xXML at cnqualitygoods but this really made me think twice. I will most likely hold off and wait.



If you want something now, just buy it. Knowing zebralight, it might take a bit of time before it comes to the market. 

So the 'b' refers to a bare emitter, and all flood?


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## leon2245

NickBose said:


> I'd choose soup can ergonomic over toilet plunger ergonomic without a blink.
> 
> Soup can or not, i almost get the Dry 3xXML at cnqualitygoods but this really made me think twice. I will most likely hold off and wait.



Yeah that's the other extreme. Either all lined up in a plunger handle, or all bunched up in a can. Some proportion in between might be nice in the hand.


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## Scubie67

How would they get all that to fit in that size


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## Colonel Sanders

*"Some proportion in between might be nice in the hand."*

2 x 26650s would give you that with capacity similar to 3 x 18650s. I'd be all over that....of course, I'll be all over this one as well!


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## Philonous

It's a shame these are clearly so far away, as the concept really is mind-blowing. My only concerns are as follows:


1) At 4 inches dead, this is going to be even shorter than the SC600. The bezel is listed as significantly wider (obviously given the 3x18650 format), but at that length the reflector must surely be shallower as well. I'm just wondering what the beam profile is going to be like.


2) The Q50 and SC600 both step down after the first few minutes, and I imagine the same will be true of the S6330. So how long will we get 2400 lumens for, and what will we be left with after 5-10 minutes? Given the size of this thing, one has to wonder what kind of a step-down we'll see.


Still, this is a unbelievable idea. I mean, if they pull it off, ZL will be making a light that is brighter than the TK70, but only 4x2.25 inches in size (never mind the flood version). Obviously it's going to be a wall of light vs the TK70's flood-throw combo, but still...


You have to wonder how much money ZL could make if they decided to make a third version with a deeper reflector on it. With a larger potential cooling area it could run at max for longer, and would obviously have much better throw. I think they could tempt a lot more people with something like that.


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## ZebraLight

Philonous said:


> It's a shame these are clearly so far away, as the concept really is mind-blowing. My only concerns are as follows:
> 
> 
> 1) At 4 inches dead, this is going to be even shorter than the SC600. The bezel is listed as significantly wider (obviously given the 3x18650 format), but at that length the reflector must surely be shallower as well. I'm just wondering what the beam profile is going to be like.
> 
> 
> 2) The Q50 and SC600 both step down after the first few minutes, and I imagine the same will be true of the S6330. So how long will we get 2400 lumens for, and what will we be left with after 5-10 minutes? Given the size of this thing, one has to wonder what kind of a step-down we'll see.
> 
> 
> Still, this is a unbelievable idea. I mean, if they pull it off, ZL will be making a light that is brighter than the TK70, but only 4x2.25 inches in size (never mind the flood version). Obviously it's going to be a wall of light vs the TK70's flood-throw combo, but still...
> 
> 
> You have to wonder how much money ZL could make if they decided to make a third version with a deeper reflector on it. With a larger potential cooling area it could run at max for longer, and would obviously have much better throw. I think they could tempt a lot more people with something like that.




The profile/size of each reflector is EXACTLY the same as the SC600. A PID thermal regulation will be implemented using 288 brightness levels (all current regulated, but only a few are accessible by users). For safety, each battery is monitored and protected independently, so you can mix and match different ones (1-3, fully charged or partially charged/depleted, 2200/2600/2900 etc.).


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## Colonel Sanders

*"For safety, each battery is monitored and protected independently, so you can mix and match different ones (1-3, fully charged or partially charged/depleted, 2200/2600/2900 etc.)."*

Ok, now THAT is freakin' cool. Never heard of that! 

So this is more or less like holding three SC600s very close together. JMO, but I agree with Philonious above that a farther throwing version of this would be really cool and quite a change for Zebralight. Not like this is going to be an EDC so a little extra length or even width would not be such a bad thing if it meant more throw.

P.S....WHERE IS THE SC600*W*?!?


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## Philonous

ZebraLight said:


> The profile/size of each reflector is EXACTLY the same as the SC600.




Listen, I think you guys are being a bit irresponsible here. Bending the fabric of space-time, just so you can make your light 0.2 inches shorter, is very dangerous and likely to result in the destruction of the universe as we know it. You need to take a long, hard look at your manufacturing policies! 




ZebraLight said:


> A PID thermal regulation will be implemented using 288 brightness levels (all current regulated, but only a few are accessible by users). For safety, each battery is monitored and protected independently, so you can mix and match different ones (1-3, fully charged or partially charged/depleted, 2200/2600/2900 etc.).


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## Harry999

Very interesting. I have been avoiding the 18650 power lights because of their size. The Nitecore TM was the most interesting to me recently because it is smaller than most. The Zebralight version is even more interesting. I will keep an eye on this one...


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## Cataract

:ironic: oo:  <- that's my face when I found this thread just now

Do take your time so my wallet has time to forgive me for the next 5 purchases!


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## Zenbaas

I also wish these lights weren't so far away!  

Zebralight if I may ask, what would the body diameter be for this light...? EDIT: Bezel diameter is 2.25 Inches (5.6 cm)

(I really hope this flashlight comes in at a good price point, I would love to get one!)


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## wink2769

Zebralight's build quality compared to price point is amazing compared to most other manufactures. I really hope it continues as they move forward, especially with the s6330.


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## ZebraLight

Zenbaas said:


> I also wish these lights weren't so far away!
> 
> Zebralight if I may ask, what would the body diameter be for this light...? EDIT: Bezel diameter is 2.25 Inches (5.6 cm)
> 
> (I really hope this flashlight comes in at a good price point, I would love to get one!)



Bezel: 2.25 in (57mm)
Body: 1.75 in (44.4mm)


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## mvyrmnd

S6330bw might be my first production light purchase in more than a year, if they make that option...


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## jhc37013

Does anyone remember when the SC50 and SC60 came out, wasn't it about a year ago? It's amazing how far they've come in such a short time and just plan stunning where they seem to be headed, the SC600 use to be a light I could only dream about and now I'm still fascinated every time I pull it from my pocket and turn it on max.

Now I see all the new headlamps coming out soon along with the Q50, SC80 and these S6330 models, wake me up I dreaming. Oh I almost forgot about the planned "T" models that are said to made in the USA, yes obviously I'm drinking the cool aid and love the flavors.


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## g.p.

Can't wait...guess I'd better start saving! :thumbsup:


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## 2100

2400L means each emitter is 800L. 3A gives you 937L at the emitter when cold (25 deg C at the emitter) and if you derate 15% with really good reflectors and use like UCL glass that'd be 800L OTF. But it will be impossible to hold anywhere near that figure with that small mass/size, but not sure how's the drop and it really depends on the ambient temp that you'll be operating in. Still very good for a pocket rocket!

TK70 is ANSI, believe it's measured after 3 minutes.


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## g.p.

Zebralight - 

Please consider providing a holster with this one.

:thanks:


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## mmace1

leon2245 said:


> Yeah that's the other extreme. Either all lined up in a plunger handle, or all bunched up in a can. Some proportion in between might be nice in the hand.


 
You mean like...the traditional design that's been in use for 90 years? Now that's just crazy talk


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## Darvis

You had me at "PID"


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## applevision

Darvis said:


> You had me at "PID"


 
LOL! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Wow, Zebralight is on the move lately!


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## excfenix

Subscribed. I was gonna pull the trigger on Nitecore's TM11 but I just have to wait for this first. Dimension-wise, the S6330 is smaller. I love the efficiency and resultant runtimes of my SC600. Please include this feature in the S6330. I'd love a faster strobe and beacon modes.


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## HIDblue

excfenix said:


> Subscribed. I was gonna pull the trigger on Nitecore's TM11 but I just have to wait for this first. Dimension-wise, the S6330 is smaller. I love the efficiency and resultant runtimes of my SC600. Please include this feature in the S6330. I'd love a faster strobe and beacon modes.



+1. I almost bought the TM11 during the black Friday sales, but this sounds like it's definitely worth the wait. I'm still amazed at the output of my new H600 and that's only on a single 18650.


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## excfenix

ZebraLight said:


> A PID thermal regulation will be implemented using 288 brightness levels (all current regulated, but only a few are accessible by users).



Someone please help me on this. I don't understand what any of this means. Just make sure it doesn't do any annoying cycling between turbo and the next step-down like the TM11 does--if using temperature as a means to step-down.



ZebraLight said:


> For safety, each battery is monitored and protected independently, so you can mix and match different ones (1-3, fully charged or partially charged/depleted, 2200/2600/2900 etc.).



That's amazing. Never heard of this on a light! Good-bye, cell-matching!


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## Scubie67

Unless you are ordering a SC600(w) ,I hope you have a whole lot of patience


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## juplin

excfenix said:


> Someone please help me on this. I don't understand what any of this means. Just make sure it doesn't do any annoying cycling between turbo and the next step-down like the TM11 does--if using temperature as a means to step-down.


It will be helpful by referring to the following article:
http://www.csimn.com/CSI_pages/PIDforDummies.html
In the implementation of S6330, the sensor in the first figure will be the temperature sensor, measured process variable will be the measured temperature, PID controller will be the microcontroller used for S6330 along with firmware code, set point will be the highest safe temperature for XM-L core, controller output will be the stepped down brightness level, either user-accessible or non-user-accessible brightness level in the 288 brightness levels,(if the measured temperature is higher than the highest safe temperature) or stepped up brightness level (if the measured temperature is lower than the highest safe temperature), process will be changing from current brightness level to the stepped down or up brightness level, process variable will be the added or reduced brightness level, and disturbance will be raised or lowered XM-L core temperature assosiated with the added or reduced brightness level.

Annoying cycling between turbo and the next step-down like the TM11 will be eliminated or mimimized in the PID temperature control, since the difference of adjacent brightness levels is so small that it's hard to be perceived by eyes thanks to the subdivision of 288 brightness levels (graceful stepping down:naughty in addition to that Integral and Derivative terms are addded in the controller to alleviate the steady-state error. 
It will be helpful by referring to the following article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller


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## excfenix

juplin said:


> It will be helpful by referring to the following article:
> http://www.csimn.com/CSI_pages/PIDforDummies.html
> In the implementation of S6330, the sensor in the first figure will be the temperature sensor, measured process variable will be the measured temperature, PID controller will be the microcontroller used for S6330 along with firmware code, set point will be the highest safe temperature for XM-L core, controller output will be the stepped down brightness level, either user-accessible or non-user-accessible brightness level in the 288 brightness levels,(if the measured temperature is higher than the highest safe temperature) or stepped up brightness level (if the measured temperature is lower than the highest safe temperature), process will be changing from current brightness level to the stepped down or up brightness level, process variable will be the added or reduced brightness level, and disturbance will be raised or lowered XM-L core temperature assosiated with the added or reduced brightness level.
> 
> Annoying cycling between turbo and the next step-down like the TM11 will be eliminated or mimimized in the PID temperature control, since the difference of adjacent brightness levels is so small that it's hard to be perceived by eyes thanks to the subdivision of 288 brightness levels (graceful stepping down:naughty in addition to that Integral and Derivative terms are addded in the controller to alleviate the steady-state error.
> It will be helpful by referring to the following article:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller



It's been a while, but thanks! I understand it now, lol. Your effort was not in vain.


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## WmArnold1

ZebraLight said:


> Bezel: 2.25 in (57mm)
> Body: 1.75 in (44.4mm)



@ZebraLight; I'm really interested in the S6330 too! This seems like a great follow-on to your hugely successful S600 and a serious competitor against the Malkoff/Mag-Light craze.

Fwiw, your Bezel & Body dimensions are very close to the D-cell Mag-Lights I've used since the 80's ==> albeit, only 4 inches tall !?! <==

Please consider offering a turbo-head model or something with deeper reflectors and a little more more throw. (I'm planning to carry this in my car) A little extra height would also balance out the stumpy Mag-Light form-factor I'm visualizing and remain on par with a 4.8 inch can of soda-pop.

Hopefully Yours, and, Hopefully Soon; William


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## guiri

For what it's worth, I would be interested in a thrower too. I just got the TM11 and although I love the light,
I can't help but FEELING it's not as powerful as my SR91 (although I KNOW it is) because of the lack of throw.

I also wanted it for the car for emergencies and I feel that more throw could be important if you should get stuck looking
for a hurt animal or person and you have to be out in the terrain looking.

Thickness doesn't bother me and I think the TM11 is nicely balanced. I would love a simple interface, front button
and a low and a super low mode for hundreds or even thousands of hours in case of an emergency.


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## tobrien

ZebraLight always produces winners and I cannot wait for these next few models to come out.

i love my SC51 and SC600


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## CarpentryHero

I'm excited

Merry Christmas Zebralight


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## berfles

I've heard a lot of people saying "it's a shame it's so far away" but no info as to where they're getting this from. Is there a rough date of when this is coming out, or any other info yet?


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## CarpentryHero

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...mVwOW9Fc0FfUDFVSHVNS1E&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC 
Just the spreadsheet which has no release date for these two models. Might not be in 2012, that this is released though I hope I'm wrong


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## g.p.

No lights have been able to capture my interest aftering finding out about these. I hope they're going to be out this year!


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## berfles

Ditto, disappointing there is no information about it as far as a hint of release.


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## bgogo

waiting for that awesome product.


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## ScaryFatKidGT

I wonder how many lumens the light will stabilize temperature at if left on for 30+ min.


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## my_crib_too

Any update on this model?


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## tobrien

my_crib_too said:


> Any update on this model?


i wish


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## TEEJ

As soon as the cold fusion driver is ready, the light is coming out.


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## ciccio90

news about zebras???


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## TEEJ

ciccio90 said:


> news about zebras???



Its all there in black and white.

:naughty:


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## guiri

TEEJ said:


> Its all there in black and white.
> 
> :naughty:



No, you didn't?! :devil:


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## iron potato

HIDblue said:


> +1. I almost bought the TM11 during the black Friday sales, but this sounds like it's definitely worth the wait. I'm still amazed at the output of my new H600 and that's only on a single 18650.



+2, same here, almost pull the trigger for RRT3 XM-L
Loving my SC600 too, S6330 definitely worth the wait :thumbsup:


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## guiri

I DID get the TM11 but wanted something with a little more throw so I'm curious about this one too.


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## 276

I emailed Zebralight at the beginning of the month asking when these two were coming out and they told me in a few months.


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## tobrien

276 said:


> I emailed Zebralight at the beginning of the month asking when these two were coming out and they told me in a few months.


good work, thanks for reporting back


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## TEEJ

guiri said:


> No, you didn't?! :devil:




LOL

It was like I was a Toon, and they sang out "Shave and a Hair Cut....."

My 2¢ was impossible to stop.

:huh:


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## ciccio90

i send an email to zebra the say that start the production in between febrary and march.......but still nothing news about!!!!???!!!! i want buy one nitecore tm11 or niteye 30 but if the zebra release these new model i think to by only these zebra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! come on zebra more fastest!!!!!!!!


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## my#1hobby

ciccio90 said:


> i send an email to zebra the say that start the production in between febrary and march.......but still nothing news about!!!!???!!!! i want buy one nitecore tm11 or niteye 30 but if the zebra release these new model i think to by only these zebra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! come on zebra more fastest!!!!!!!!


That's what I'm waiting for too! No more lights for me until these become available......


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## shane45_1911

ciccio90 said:


> come on zebra more fastest!!!!!!!!



Exactly! More fastest for me too please!


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## pblanch

Ive just figured out why the new flashlights are being released as soon as we would all like. They are too busy answering emails about when stuff is coming out!


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## AnAppleSnail

I'd like to see a recoil reflector used in a light like this. I want to try some experiments with a heat pipe and a faceted small reflector to give reasonable throw and spill in a smaller-than-usual package. I guess it's time to cut up those spare laptops for their heatpipes...


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## WmArnold1

AnAppleSnail said:


> ... I want to try some experiments with a heat pipe ... I guess it's time to cut up those spare laptops for their heatpipes...



Hello AnAppleSnail; I've been joking about flashlights with *fans* and completely forgot about heat-pipes! 

Note that someone built a jensen-case size light that pumps over 120 watts into a Luminus CSM-360 using heat-pipes here.

That said; I'll bet we see flashlights with heat-pipes before fans because heat-pipes work better for IPX7 (waterproof) testing too. :naughty:

Take Care, William


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## AnAppleSnail

WmArnold1 said:


> That said; I'll bet we see flashlights with heat-pipes before fans because heat-pipes work better for IPX7 (waterproof) testing too. :naughty:
> 
> Take Care, William


Omnidirectional heat pipes are good for recoil LEDs in particular. Rather than mess with reflectors allowing some light to escape un-touched, recoil LEDs sit on a thin metal strip facing into the reflector. This can give shockingly good throw, as with the DealExtreme Ultrafire 'recoil' LED light.





16000 lux from a Cree XR-C P4 in a 40mm bezel. The reflector cup in the host "appears" to be about 35mm diameter and 25mm depth to driver, though.
A faceted reflector could give a useful but directed wide beam around a fierce central beam. But this idea may be tied up in patents


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## funder

"Throw" is mainly determined by size of the collimating device. Changing he format without increasing the size helps little in increasing the throw.


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## g.p.

Anybody have any updates?


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## TEEJ

funder said:


> "Throw" is mainly determined by size of the collimating device. Changing he format without increasing the size helps little in increasing the throw.



LOL

I guess aspherics don't work at all then. :nana:

:devil:


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## carl

These new upcoming ZL models sound like:

1) Similar to the Lupine Betty TL-S in size and output
2) Regarding battery access, Unlike the Betty where the head screws off to get to the battery, the ZL will screw off a tailcap - this will maintain a good heat-transfer path from the head to the battery tube like other ZLs.
3) Will use collimating plastic optics similar to the Betty to keep the overall length very short - much shorter than using a reflector.
4) Will use multiple LEDS mounted on a flat face heat sink - arranged in a circular pattern similar to the Betty.
5) Will have throw vs spill options by either using all XMLs (for spill) or using a mixture of XMLs and XPGs for medium throw/spill like the Betty. Models with more throw may have a bit less total lumens - like the Betty.
6) Electronic side clicky like other ZLs and the Betty.
7) Much cheaper than the Betty - $850 including charger.
8) Much lower low than the Betty (Betty on low = 250 lumens).

I'm in! This model is much more exciting to me than the 4XAA model they were planning but temporarily put on hold.


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## tonkem

Sounds like a Betty then? I have a Betty TL-S and it puts out a lot of light  I guess we will see when/if Zebralight comes out with these lights. I am leaning toward the Q50 myself... If it comes out


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## carl

If I had a Betty, there would be nothing else to top that!


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## tonkem

Carl, you know they are always coming up with something brighter and better. I had a polarion ph40 for a while, and thought nothing else could top that. Of course, the Betty is not the same kind of light as the Polarion was, but for my usage, much more practical(and cheaper than the polarion). I have a Wilma TL, Betty TL-S, Piko DUO X, a couple of surefire E1L's and a Sunwayman M10a, and just ordered a Zebralight SC80 from the Marketplace. I should be set, but being on this forum does not help  I would like to get the Q50 whenever it comes out, since it uses AA batteries and I have a few AA lights, in the Sunway M30a, M40a Surefire Saint, and Surefire E2Laa. I actually prefer the AA lights over the 123 lights, for constant use, but the 123 lights are my glovebox (store for a while) lights. 

You should just pick up a Betty and see how you like it.... It can do double duty as a bike light, if you need an excuse to spend the money....




carl said:


> If I had a Betty, there would be nothing else to top that!


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## TEEJ

tonkem said:


> Carl, you know they are always coming up with something brighter and better. I had a polarion ph40 for a while, and thought nothing else could top that. Of course, the Betty is not the same kind of light as the Polarion was, but for my usage, much more practical(and cheaper than the polarion). I have a Wilma TL, Betty TL-S, Piko DUO X, a couple of surefire E1L's and a Sunwayman M10a, and just ordered a Zebralight SC80 from the Marketplace. I should be set, but being on this forum does not help  I would like to get the Q50 whenever it comes out, since it uses AA batteries and I have a few AA lights, in the Sunway M30a, M40a Surefire Saint, and Surefire E2Laa. I actually prefer the AA lights over the 123 lights, for constant use, but the 123 lights are my glovebox (store for a while) lights.
> 
> You should just pick up a Betty and see how you like it.... It can do double duty as a bike light, if you need an excuse to spend the money....



Think of it as why you read about guys who cheat on their super model wives, etc....when they GOT them, they were thinking "What could top THIS?!"...and then they find something new.

:devil:


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## carl

tonkem said:


> You should just pick up a Betty....



The only way I could afford the Betty ($850) is if Greece, Italy, and Spain all default on their national loans, thereby causing them to be ejected from the EU, resulting in a significant drop in the Euro. 

And since what happens in Europe won't stay in Europe, this will cause our US economy and dollar to drop. But there will be a small lag-time period between the drop in the Euro and the drop in the dollar whereby I could possibly order direct from Germany or another European dealer at, say, half-price. 

But then, I would still have to convince my wife we can afford a $425 flashlight in a dropping economy, thanks to the problems in the EU, and this will still be a very hard sell since I am a family man with a kid in private school.

But we can always hope....

Now if Greece would just reject the austerity measures demanded by Germany and France and get the ball rolling on this exquisite plan.....(lol!)


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## carl

TEEJ said:


> Think of it as why you read about guys who cheat on their super model wives, etc....when they GOT them, they were thinking "What could top THIS?!"...and then they find something new.
> 
> :devil:



Your statement is so true but I'm not going there.....(lol!)


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## romteb

carl said:


> But then, I would still have to convince my wife we can afford a $425 flashlight in a dropping economy



Could be usefull when we'll all be living in the streets, just sayin...


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## biglights

LOL, for sure. Could be very expensive!!!


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## tonkem

carl said:


> The only way I could afford the Betty ($850)



You could watch for them on the marketplace  You never know when a "flashaholic" will want to let one go


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## duro

carl said:


> The only way I could afford the Betty ($850) is if Greece, Italy, and Spain all default on their national loans, thereby causing them to be ejected from the EU, resulting in a significant drop in the Euro.
> 
> And since what happens in Europe won't stay in Europe, this will cause our US economy and dollar to drop. But there will be a small lag-time period between the drop in the Euro and the drop in the dollar whereby I could possibly order direct from Germany or another European dealer at, say, half-price.
> 
> But then, I would still have to convince my wife we can afford a $425 flashlight in a dropping economy, thanks to the problems in the EU, and this will still be a very hard sell since I am a family man with a kid in private school.
> 
> But we can always hope....
> 
> Now if Greece would just reject the austerity measures demanded by Germany and France and get the ball rolling on this exquisite plan.....(lol!)






I take it you listen to a lot of NPR  Where is this zebralight?


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## TEEJ

carl said:


> The only way I could afford the Betty ($850) is if Greece, Italy, and Spain all default on their national loans, thereby causing them to be ejected from the EU, resulting in a significant drop in the Euro.
> 
> And since what happens in Europe won't stay in Europe, this will cause our US economy and dollar to drop. But there will be a small lag-time period between the drop in the Euro and the drop in the dollar whereby I could possibly order direct from Germany or another European dealer at, say, half-price.
> 
> But then, I would still have to convince my wife we can afford a $425 flashlight in a dropping economy, thanks to the problems in the EU, and this will still be a very hard sell since I am a family man with a kid in private school.
> 
> But we can always hope....
> 
> Now if Greece would just reject the austerity measures demanded by Germany and France and get the ball rolling on this exquisite plan.....(lol!)



No, the perfect plan is for it to LOOK like that's GOING TO happen, so stocks plunge and the purchase from Germany, etc, is going to work to discount your costs.....but for everything to rally and the economies of the world live happily ever after...until you need another light...

And to explain all this to your wife, so she knows the $ will be there.

:devil:


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## Swede74

I just noticed that Zebralight has moved the S6630 from "Partial List of Future Products" to "Flashlight" on their product comparison spreadsheet. I suppose that could mean it's one step closer to becoming available for purchase / pre-order.

http://www.zebralight.com/ (click on the red box on the left that says "Compare All Models")


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## henry1960

Holy Molly....11 Modes!!!


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## JudasD

wow! good catch. lets hope it's not just a sorting typo on their end.

JD


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## tonkem

Now where are the pics? Sounds good at $199  Loving the Zebras...


----------



## JudasD

$199 might be a bit high for me. It would need to be a real performer since i already own a TM-11.

JD


----------



## tonkem

I have a Lupine Betty TL, and Wilma TL, but have fallen in love with the smaller form factor of the Zebralights. Nothing could compare with the Betty TL or Wilma TL, for its size, until this light, and the Lupines are MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE


----------



## WmArnold1

henry1960 said:


> Holy Molly....11 Modes!!!



That's only two more than the SC600's 9 modes; two high, two medium, and two low; with four separate choices within H2; programatically selectable after seven quick-clicks..

Yes, setting up H2 was a royal PITA to at first, and, the SC600 refuses start-up in H2 if you choose strobe. But I love the gui and find myself double-clicking within my selected level all of the time.


----------



## guiri

carl said:


> The only way I could afford the Betty ($850) is if Greece, Italy, and Spain all default on their national loans, thereby causing them to be ejected from the EU, resulting in a significant drop in the Euro.
> 
> And since what happens in Europe won't stay in Europe, this will cause our US economy and dollar to drop. But there will be a small lag-time period between the drop in the Euro and the drop in the dollar whereby I could possibly order direct from Germany or another European dealer at, say, half-price.
> 
> But then, I would still have to convince my wife we can afford a $425 flashlight in a dropping economy, thanks to the problems in the EU, and this will still be a very hard sell since I am a family man with a kid in private school.
> 
> But we can always hope....
> 
> Now if Greece would just reject the austerity measures demanded by Germany and France and get the ball rolling on this exquisite plan.....(lol!)





Now, I don't know if your wife will buy the story but I tell you one thing, she might actually give up after HALF the explanation and go ahead and let you do it so I say, go fer it!


----------



## Patriot

I'm really looking forward to the first pictures of these two models. I've been a huge fan of the triple XM-Ls with 3 or 4 18650s and is seems these might be the smallest yet and at prices that can't be beat. I'm setting money aside for this one now.


----------



## don.gwapo

Wow! At 4 inches with over 2k+ lumens, the size is just amazing and the price is very reasonable.


----------



## WmArnold1

don.gwapo said:


> Wow! At 4 inches with over 2k+ lumens, the size is just amazing and the price is very reasonable.



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the S6330 is essentially three SC600's, with three reflectors almost exactly like the SC600 too: 80 degree spill & 10 degree hot spot. Thus, the "wall-of-light" said by many.

I've EDC'd a 2x CR123 light since 2008 and the SC600 for a little over a month now. I imagine that the S6330 will be a little thick for the pocket (no jokes here please ;-) but it should be a superb hoster item for short range lighting.

I feel that my pocket SC600 works perfectly for searching within a 10 yard radius but said wall of spill is a little distracting when I'm, say, trying to read house numbers from the street. So, my next light will have a little more throw in lieu of a wall-of-light that is just three times brighter. The S6330's bezel diameter is 2.25 inches (57 mm) and I'd rather carry a single-emitter light with that bezel size on my belt for searching within 40 yards or so. Sorry. YMMV


----------



## g.p.

WmArnold1 said:


> I feel that my pocket SC600 works perfectly for searching within a 10 yard radius...


Are you joking? Something is wrong with your SC600 (or your eyes) if it's only good for 10 yards. I can light up the house at the other end of my block (6-7 houses down) well enough to easily pick out people and details. It gets even better when I'm somewhere without any light polution.


----------



## don.gwapo

WmArnold1 said:


> I'm under the impression that the S6330 is essentially three SC600's,


That's my guess as well. Maybe S6330 is a blown up SC600 but we could be wrong until we see a photo of this light.


----------



## WmArnold1

g.p. said:


> Are you joking? Something is wrong with your SC600 (or your eyes) if it's only good for 10 yards. I can light up the house at the other end of my block (6-7 houses down) well enough to easily pick out people and details. It gets even better when I'm somewhere without any light polution.



Yes, I'm old and wear glasses  But, I don't believe that the 10-degree hot-spot from our SC600's will be very helpful reading numbers on a house that is 150 to 200 yards away after the nearby wall-of-light has caused my pupil to choak down and reduce my night vision. Be real. With my bad eyesight and all; I have trouble reading house numbers that are more than 25 yards from the street using my 750 lumen SC600. But, I can read them easily using my old 200 lumen oLight T20-Q5 because it throws better and the side-spill isn't so overwhelming.

P.S. my "only good for 10 yards" was a little harsh; sorry. IMHO, I can read house numbers and search effectively out to 20 yards with my SC600.


----------



## g.p.

Yes you definitely need to use the levels on the SC600appropriately, or face pupil dilation and loss of night vision!


----------



## tobrien

Omg finally


----------



## biglights

Very very intersesting


----------



## carl

I sure hope the girth of the light is not too big - otherwise maybe ZL should go with a 26650 configuration.

I sure like the form factor of the Lupine Betty - still way too expensive though. 

Unless of course, the Spanish banks go belly up even after the recent bailout, the Greeks vote for the leftists on June 17, and as of lately, if Ireland leaves the EU too, thus forcing the euro way down and giving all of us an opportunity to get a 'economic double-dip recession' special deal straight from Germany (lol!). On the other hand, such a serious situation with its contagion most likely spreading to the US, will make spending on our little pet hobbies that much more difficult to justify. We will all need to hunker down and be satisfied just to look at pictures of flashlights, and coming here to CPF of course.


----------



## guiri

Which Carl is why we need to stock up on lights now 

Don't forget to mention in the Europe thing that if some old ladies from Russia win the Eurovision contest, it could really impact the economy as well 

As for girth. If it's not thicker than the TM11, I'm good 

Love my TM by the way but I did want a little more throw so if I can sell it at a decent price, I might.

Would like to see pics of the light though


----------



## TEEJ

WmArnold1 said:


> Yes, I'm old and wear glasses  But, I don't believe that the 10-degree hot-spot from our SC600's will be very helpful reading numbers on a house that is 150 to 200 yards away after the nearby wall-of-light has caused my pupil to choak down and reduce my night vision. Be real. With my bad eyesight and all; I have trouble reading house numbers that are more than 25 yards from the street using my 750 lumen SC600. But, I can read them easily using my old 200 lumen oLight T20-Q5 because it throws better and the side-spill isn't so overwhelming.
> 
> P.S. my "only good for 10 yards" was a little harsh; sorry. IMHO, I can read house numbers and search effectively out to 20 yards with my SC600.



I did some measurements, and the side spill shutting down the pupils is not so much the factor as the lumens being more concentrated, thus producing more lux on target.

Apparently, from what my meters, etc, and eyes, are telling me, is that if the 200 lumens is concentrated onto a patch of small surface area, that area will be more brightly lit/easier to discern details of, than the light from a 750 lumen light that is covering a much larger surface area.

So, if I spread out my 750 lumens over a large area, each lumen is spread thinner, and, the LUX produced is proportionally lower. (We SEE Lux, we do NOT see lumens...).

This is why I can get a brighter lux reading on a distant target with a crappy 131 lumen LED maglite than with a 750 lumen SC600, etc.

By the time the lumens HIT the target, if I use a shotgun analogy...the maglite pattern is super tight, and all the lumens whack the small target, so I get almost all of the 131 lumens being turned to lux.

The SC600 pattern is like a sawed off shotgun, for a distant target, the llumens are so scattered in such a large pattern, that only a few of the original 750 actually HIT the target, and, therefore, only a few of them get turned to lux.


If ENOUGH lumens get turned to lux, you CAN read that house number....if not, well, you need to shoot at it from a closer range/use a different choked light, etc.


The aspheric lensed lights are more like sniper rifles in this regard....SUPER small patch of light, BUT, ALL the lumens hit the target (Hitting it in the shape of the LED)




So, its not so much that spill ruins night vision...what you are FOCUSED on controls your pupil dilation (Hence how you look for a concussion, etc, with a flashlight...the pupils contract differently under these scenarios...) 

In other words, If I used the aspheric to project a tight beam onto a distant target sufficiently for you to see the house number, with zero spill...and you are looking AT those numbers...you will STILL see them even if I ALSO turn on the SC600. The added peripheral light didn't make the lux on target needed change. (I tried it, it works).



I think the impression was given by the lights that were available back when impressions were being formed. Almost all lights had tight beams, as they produced, compared to today's lights, almost no lumens...and HAD TO concentrate everything as tightly as they could to SEE anything anyway.

When competitive lights came out with more floody beams, people would notice that even though the lights were "brighter", they could see distant details better with the more concentrated albeit lower lumen beams.

Once an opinion like this forms, and gets "taught" as dogma....well, its all but impossible for facts to intervene. 


Obviously, its all a question of DEGREE, but, all things being equal...the concentration of the available lumens will play a much larger role than the amount of spill per se.


----------



## moozooh

I guess it also depends on your purposes and the clarity of your vision—mine isn't too good, and I don't wear glasses (so that it won't worsen faster), so having a distance of some 200 m brightly lit entirely is at least as good for me as a 200 m throw, as I won't be able to discern anything meaningful past that point anyway.


----------



## peteybaby

Interesting email. I would just add a bit to it:

I usually use my high-powered lights walking the dogs in the woods. I'm on trails with trees everywhere. If I always pointed the light straight ahead, and always looked straight ahead, what you wrote would probably be true. But I look all around us when we walk in the woods at night. If I look to the side, I'm often still pointing the light forward and using the spill to see the side. In that case, a really bright spill can probably close down the pupils.

Your post was a good reminder though that when I go for night walks, I should keep my light pointed forward and use the spill, rather than point my light at everything I look at.


----------



## TEEJ

peteybaby said:


> Interesting email. I would just add a bit to it:
> 
> I usually use my high-powered lights walking the dogs in the woods. I'm on trails with trees everywhere. If I always pointed the light straight ahead, and always looked straight ahead, what you wrote would probably be true. But I look all around us when we walk in the woods at night. If I look to the side, I'm often still pointing the light forward and using the spill to see the side. In that case, a really bright spill can probably close down the pupils.
> 
> Your post was a good reminder though that when I go for night walks, I should keep my light pointed forward and use the spill, rather than point my light at everything I look at.



LOL

Of course.

I call it the projector screen phenomenon. You see "the light", but not what the light is ON. 

If you have TOO MUCH light on something you are looking AT, it WILL require you to close down to avoid "over exposure"...and, typically, you just see a bright light reflecting back at you...as you can't stop down your eyes enough to overcome the LUX you're faced with.

An aspheric is again the poster child for this. Too close, and you see the LED's image projected onto the tree or wall or whatever, and that's about it. The LED image itself is so bright, that you can't see what its ON. What its ON is acting like a projector screen.



This is a case that illustrates that too much light concentrated on a target can actually obscure the target details. Too much light ON the target can also obscure what's NEXT TO the target for the same reason. 

Its analogous to how we see best in full daylight...but NOT with the sun in our eyes.






Aspheric beam on a round tree ~ 405 meters away...you see the LED, but, not much else. 



Its also why there might be more than one light that's BEST for a particular scenario....it puts the right intensity of light, with the right sized spot of light onto the target, at the range you need. 





Reflector Based Olight SR90 at the same tree...can see the tree, AND what's around it (If what you wanted was in the tree, and jumped off and ran, you'd SEE them do it...) 

The SR90's generous spill is not preventing me from seeing the tree and its details...its adding context. In full daylight, I'd be able to see the tree fine, even though everything ELSE is also lit up by the sunlight all around me. As long as the lux on target is not too dim, I will still be able to see it. 


If your eyes are night adapted, that intensity/lux produced can be lower to see the same levels of detail...but, night adapted eyes are not as good at SEEING certain types of details, a trade off.


As you age, it worsens of course...as the adjustment time, and night vision, go bye bye with time.




To further complicate matters, you see DETAILS with about a 2º cone of vision dead ahead from your pupils...which is your WORST night vision range.

This is why for night fighting, etc, you learn to look to the SIDE of where you are trying to see something in the dark...as you have BETTER light gathering off center from your normal line of sight.

Essentially, your peripheral vision is better at seeing in the dark.

That all means that you need even MORE light on a target far away to SEE details...as seeing DETAILS requires you to get your fovea (~ that 2º field of vision that hates the dark...) centered on the details of interest. 


So, as I've gotten older, I've found I need more and more light for the equivalent tasks. 

Luckily, the lighting technology seems intent of keeping up with my slide into darkness. (I see worse, so they make the available lights brighter...)


----------



## WmArnold1

*The "throw" of a light is as much a factor of the spill as it is of the spot.* Please grab a fresh cup of coffee (or whatever) and bear with me for a few sentences..

Although ANSI throw is defined as the distance out to 0.25 Lux in the center of the beam, (ref) it presumes that your eyes are fully night-adapted and that you can see whatever you need to see on a clear, moonless, starlit night.

That's not reasonable enough for a lot of people. Subsequently, there is a competing formula for "throw" with the distance out to 1.0 Lux. But, there again; it still presumes that your eyes are fully night-adapted and that ambient light levels (which includes your side-spill) have not compromised eye sensitivity significantly above said starlit paradigm.

Although our bare eyes can work within ambient lighting conditions ranging over nine orders of magnitude, our eyes are limited to about two orders of magnitude (100:1 - say; ambient / 10 thru ambient * 10) within any particular environment and adaptation to changing scenes takes several minutes. Our eyes do this to optimize visual acuity within a scene. (ref: "luminance adaptation")

For the sake of argument; I'm going to say that we cannot see whatever we need to see when it is lighted below 1/10th of the ambient light level. Subsequently, the "throw" of my flashlight in an 500 Lux (IES category D) department store setting would be the distance out to a 50 Lux spot. For my personal favorite; the SC600, we're talking roughly 8 meters (26 feet) here. Ymmv.. And, most importantly; *the distance to 0.25 Lux is irrelevant within a department store*.

The point I'm trying to establish here is that real-world "throw" depends on ambient lighting conditions. And, in sufficient darkness; side-spill contributes to the ambient!

At full tilt; my SC600 pumps approximately 280 Lumens (37%) into the 20-degree-spot cone and 470 Lumens (63%) into the overlapping 80-degree-spill cone. (total: 750 lu) So, assuming that I arbitrarily place my wall-of-(spill)-light at, say, 2 meters (6 feet); I will respectfully assert that my ambient light is never below 53 Lux and my eyes wouldn't be able to see whatever I need to read accurately below 5.3 Lux; Which is.. 24 meters? Yes, this is totally subjective, but under no circumstances does a SC600 have anywhere near a real-world "throw" of 150, 200, or even 405 meters; because of it's wall-of-(spill)-light. And, Imho, the forthcoming S6330 won't have it either, for that same reason!

Repeating what I said here; I can personally read house numbers at 25 yards better with my 200 Lumen Olight T20-Q5 than my SC600, and, I'm going to predict that the brighter S6330 will just choke my pupils down a little further and *I'll end up with essentially the same visual acuity that I had with my SC600*. (readers: I apologize for needing seven paragraphs to justify saying that..)

The bottom line; when I look for a bigger light, I'm looking for a narrower spill-cone, or, best of all; the _*same *_80-degree spill-cone, just with fewer Lumens within it; as TIR (total internal reflection) optics could do without increasing any outside diameters. ==> I'm visualizing triple XM-L's feeding three merged TIR's!!

P.S. Here's some quick & dirty measurements & math for my old T20: 97 lumens (47%) into 6 degree spot cone, 108 lumens (53%) into a 48 degree spill-cone. (total: 205 lu) Technically, it throws 1.8 times farther than my SC600, but the T20's beam is just too narrow for 99.44% of my EDC use.


----------



## carl

Dear ZL: Here are my priorities for this light:
1) More throw than spill - even if this adds more length to the light.
2) Handle as small in diameter as possible - no big knobby handle pattern (like the Spark SP6) which increases total diameter - just fine knurling is good.
3) More than 3 LEDs to keep heat down but produce same amount of light.
4) Charger port like Spark SP6.


----------



## srfreddy

carl said:


> Dear ZL: Here are my priorities for this light:
> 1) More throw than spill - even if this adds more length to the light.
> 2) Handle as small in diameter as possible - no big knobby handle pattern (like the Spark SP6) which increases total diameter - just fine knurling is good.
> 3) More than 3 LEDs to keep heat down but produce same amount of light.
> 4) Charger port like Spark SP6.



Quite frankly, a charging port is a PITA to waterproof...


----------



## g.p.

Where are you guys living that you need flashlights to read house numbers (especially from such great distances)? :thinking: 

Don't you have street lamps and porch lights?


----------



## WmArnold1

g.p. said:


> Where are you guys living that you need flashlights to read house numbers (especially from such great distances)? :thinking:
> 
> Don't you have street lamps and porch lights?



I was an emergency responder before GPS was practical and most of my night-runs seemed to be to places without mailboxes at the curb. The overwhelming majority of the neighborhoods I see, then and now, don't leave their porch lights on. If a street lamp helps you see a porch address, it's a rare coincidence.

Thankfully, I've got GPS today, but "reading house numbers" is still a quantifiable benchmark that anybody can use in lieu of picturing generic spots on trees, buildings, etc.

A person with 20-20 vision (possibly using corrective lenses ;-) can read 4-inch (102mm) house numbers at 102 feet in broad daylight. If you need to "throw" farther; use proportionally larger text. Seeing spots, for the sake of seeing spots, doesn't mean very much to me; at any distance.


----------



## anthony lumens

Where is the zebralight s6330 and the s6330b? Looked even zebras site and saw no such thing?


----------



## treek13

anthony lumens said:


> Where is the zebralight s6330 and the s6330b? Looked even zebras site and saw no such thing?


On the ZebraLight site, there is a Compare All Models link that includes future products.


----------



## carl

srfreddy said:


> Quite frankly, a charging port is a PITA to waterproof...



The Spark SP6 charger port consists of a simple knurled cap with an o-ring on the mating threaded male post. It doesn't look like a PITA to waterproof but I could be wrong.


----------



## asot

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

First pictures appeared on FB


----------



## server

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

http://i.imgur.com/m0NwB.jpg pic from FB here


----------



## don.gwapo

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

Wow! .

Like a SC600 3x chunkier with fins.


----------



## Jay611j

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

Dang it's small! I can't wait for it to come out......


----------



## g.p.

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

It would be cool if an extender tube was an option. Would be the same or even shorter than a standard 2D, twice the run time of normal, and would probably balance really well. 

Can you imagine how long the low power run time would be with six 18650's!?!?!


----------



## WmArnold1

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*



g.p. said:


> It would be cool if an extender tube was an option. Would be the same or even shorter than a standard 2D, twice the run time of normal, and would probably balance really well...



I agree, G.P! Since the S6330's diameter requires a holster, doubling the batteries would make it balance really well. As it stands, (pun intended) it's shorter than a can of pop!

Imho, the spill-cone should be a little tighter than 80 degrees though.. (but, we don't need to go around *that* tree again, we did it above)

ZebraLight; please consider balancing S6330 spot & spill cones with a TIR (total internal reflection) lens. It's the rage at SureFire.. (ref)


----------



## Jay611j

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

Now that would be the ultimate light. I would KILL for one with TIR lenses :devil:.


----------



## CarpentryHero

*Re: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen*

Check Zebralight Facebook for the S6330 i posted A link in this thread  

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...2-what-new-lights-are-you-excited-about/page2


----------



## Adrenaline_6

srfreddy said:


> Quite frankly, a charging port is a PITA to waterproof...



The new Klarus RS11 magnetic charging idea makes it less painful.


----------



## carl

Ahem, well I just took a look at the picture of the SC6330 standing next to the maglite and.... well, uh, before I make any statement about my opinion on how it looks, what do y'all think of the form factor?

And were they purposely trying to take a pic WITHOUT the switch or something?


----------



## tonkem

I need more information, of course, as do the rest of us. I like it, so far, but I don't know which maglite that is, so have no true reference of it's size, compared to my Lupine Betty. One thing I am sure to like is the low low that the Zebra will have vs the Betty. Awaiting more information


----------



## AnAppleSnail

tonkem said:


> I don't know which maglite that is



2D incan maglite, if I'm any judge.


----------



## ElectronGuru

carl said:


> And were they purposely trying to take a pic WITHOUT the switch or something?



It's a teaser pic, getting you to focus on the comparison of forms.


----------



## OneBigDay

carl said:


> Ahem, well I just took a look at the picture of the SC6330 standing next to the maglite and.... well, uh, before I make any statement about my opinion on how it looks, what do y'all think of the form factor? ...



Reminds me of a thread I read a while back saying with multiple cells you either you go for the toilet plunger form factor, or the soup can form factor. Zebralight has opted for soup can on this one.

I was hoping for something completely different. I was hoping for something like the Spark SD-6 or SD52 - an all flood bare emitter XM-L room lighter with 3x18650 that would run forever. I guess this is not it. :shrug:


----------



## moozooh

The S6330b is bare-LED, though, and, knowing ZebraLight's drivers, it will totally run forever. Maybe you should wait for that one.


----------



## Matjazz

I just got Nitecore TM11 when I found out about Zebralight s6330. I was restless waiting what will Zebralight bring out but now I am at peace. With a head that size I wonder why they decided to make 3x18650 battery tube rather than 4x that would have less than 5mm larger radius.


----------



## WmArnold1

Matjazz said:


> I just got Nitecore TM11 when I found out about Zebralight s6330. I was restless waiting what will Zebralight bring out but now I am at peace. With a head that size I wonder why they decided to make 3x18650 battery tube rather than 4x that would have less than 5mm larger radius.



I think it makes the electronics simpler for them; someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that the S6330 would run one led with one 18650, two with two, etc. I don't see three separate switches, but I'm betting it's three separate SC600 drivers.


----------



## oKtosiTe

WmArnold1 said:


> I think it makes the electronics simpler for them; someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere that the S6330 would run one led with one 18650, two with two, etc. I don't see three separate switches, but I'm betting it's three separate SC600 drivers.



It would certainly explain its ability to mix and match batteries.


----------



## phips

The form-factor looks a bit uncomfortable... a reasonably big diameter but I think I would have preferred being able to fully grip the light.
Maybe there will a 6x18650 tube, runtime with 0.1 lumen should be nice


----------



## Philonous

Man I want this light. A second Sun, in my hands. Seriously, 2,400 lumens? Size-wize, we are not in Kansas anymore.


----------



## don.gwapo

I hope this light won't be a teaser for a very long time just like the Q50 did.


----------



## guiri

So, still no pics?


----------



## Luminater

I'm not sure 

See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm


----------



## guiri

Oo, cool. Fat little sucker


----------



## pblanch

Oh please please please have it compatable with CR123's. Its going to take days to recharge all my 18650's for it to get working a full capacity again.

I assume you could just use a single 18650 as they will be independant of voltages of each other but still.


----------



## carl

That 3x18650 looks too fat for me. I wish it were a 2x18650 to make it more Mag 1D size. 

And the cooling fins should be in the lengthwise/axial direction for best heat transfer down to the battery tube rather than the standard fins in the circumferential direction around the base of the head. 

So here's my wish list:

1) 2x18650
2) Magnetic recharge tailcap ala Klarus, etc.
3) 5 or more XMLs ala Lupine for less heat per LED and more Total Output
4) Dual switch ala Nitecore/Klarus

Is it too late to add these details?


----------



## phips

Funny thing is, my wishes are the exact opposite 

1) 3x 18650, because two batteries in parallel waste a lot of space in a circular compartment
2) no charging port for waterproofness and smaller size
3) I would rather have one SST-90
4) single stage electronic switch with a simple interface would be best


----------



## oKtosiTe

phips said:


> 2) no charging port for waterproofness and smaller size



I don't think the Klarus RS11's waterproofness is compromised by its charging port. That's what makes it so cool (IMHO).


----------



## kwak

carl said:


> That 3x18650 looks too fat for me. I wish it were a 2x18650 to make it more Mag 1D size.





To be honest 3 x 18650 is not as fat as you'd think.

My 11 year old kids manage to carry the TM11 without any problems at all.
If you can pick up a can of coke then you can hold a 3 x 18650 without any problems.


----------



## HighlanderNorth

phips said:


> Funny thing is, my wishes are the exact opposite
> 
> 1) 3x 18650, because two batteries in parallel waste a lot of space in a circular compartment
> 2) no charging port for waterproofness and smaller size
> 3) I would rather have one SST-90
> 4) single stage electronic switch with a simple interface would be best




Funny, my wishes are the exact opposite of both of your's! I wish it would have no internal batteries, no internal LED, just a solid cylinder of aluminum that I can tape a batteryjunction watch battery freebie light to!

I dont know much about this light, but it seems like its going to be another Zebralight style flooder.... A wall of light with a very large, sloppy-ish hot spot and a huge spill beam.....


----------



## HighlanderNorth

kwak said:


> To be honest 3 x 18650 is not as fat as you'd think.
> 
> My 11 year old kids manage to carry the TM11 without any problems at all.
> If you can pick up a can of coke then you can hold a 3 x 18650 without any problems.




Yeah, I'd imagine a 3-18650 size light would actually be significantly more narrow than a Coke can to be honest. Not a problem.


----------



## carl

I forgot to add OPTICS to my wish list to allow for crowding more LEDs into the head without making the head bigger. Each LED would run cooler too! Of course, more LEDs means a higher price.


----------



## moozooh

I wonder how far it would throw with TIR lenses in front of each LED. That could make it into a Guinness Book as world's smallest searchlight produced, heh.


----------



## pblanch

I can see me sticking a thin round magnet to the bottom of one so I can attach to something metal.

Of course I will make my mind up when I get it so I can see the internal layout ect.


----------



## WmArnold1

moozooh said:


> I wonder how far it would throw with TIR lenses in front of each LED. That could make it into a Guinness Book as world's smallest searchlight produced, heh.



Throw is a TIR design parameter that depends on the spot-cone. Assuming that a TIR is cut for a perfect 10 degree spot-cone and no spill; 2400 Lumens should throw down to a threshold of 0.25 lux (ANSI) around 632 meters! And, if you feel that the threshold should be 1.0 lux; then, it's 316 meters of throw. YMMV. More throw just means a smaller spot..

But I couldn't live with an aspheric-like flashlight myself. I love the 10-degree spot & 80-degree spill of my SC600, but I feel that too many lumens spill. ==> *With a TIR, one can keep the same spot & spill geometry and also set what percentage of the lumens go each way!* Btw, I guesstimate that my SC600 spot is 63% and the spill is 37% of the total lumens, and, that much spill can be a little distracting when I'm trying to focus on something that is more than 20 meters away..

Personally; I'd want the TIR face to be cut to spot 90% and spill 10% of the lumens. Otherwise, I'm happy with the SC600 spot/spill beam pattern myself.


----------



## samgab

Wow, I've been a bit out of the loop... Just found out about this, and I can't wait! Looks awesome.


----------



## Zenbaas

I'll say this and echo some of the other posters. I would love an extension tube for this light to increase overall runtime. Now that would be awesome..!


----------



## TAutry

Too large for EDC, but would be a heck of a house or car/truck light.


----------



## tobrien

Zenbaas said:


> I'll say this and echo some of the other posters. I would love an extension tube for this light to increase overall runtime. Now that would be awesome..!



ditto. I think that would make it much easier to hold/grip, too, in just having a bit more surface area to grab on to


----------



## Zenbaas

tobrien said:


> ditto. I think that would make it much easier to hold/grip, too, in just having a bit more surface area to grab on to



I really hope they look into it though. Maybe we should throw some hints to them on their FB Page


----------



## tobrien

Zenbaas said:


> I really hope they look into it though. Maybe we should throw some hints to them on their FB Page



i have my doubts it'll make a difference. They seemingly hardly use their FB page, you know? it just seems to be just customers writing and ZL posting a pic every six months


----------



## moozooh

Zenbaas said:


> I'll say this and echo some of the other posters. I would love an extension tube for this light to increase overall runtime. Now that would be awesome..!


Eh, just how much runtime do you guys need?.. 3x3400 mAh is a _lot_ of runtime already, and 4000 mAh cells are due for release next year. Better invest in that than turn it into an unwieldy baton that isn't geared towards tactical use anyway, imo.


----------



## Zenbaas

tobrien said:


> i have my doubts it'll make a difference. They seemingly hardly use their FB page, you know? it just seems to be just customers writing and ZL posting a pic every six months


As unfortunate as your comment is, there is a lot of truth to it. 


moozooh said:


> Eh, just how much runtime do you guys need?.. 3x3400 mAh is a _lot_ of runtime already, and 4000 mAh cells are due for release next year. Better invest in that than turn it into an unwieldy baton that isn't geared towards tactical use anyway, imo.


Well if it is an optional extra it won't affect you or anyone else unless you want it.... Right? So I don't see the problem here. And even with higher capacity cells that is just a plus plus situation in my honest opinion. What would the problem be with optional extra runtime on the highest setting 
?


----------



## sbbsga

I just saw the price for S6330 was set at USD199 in the product comparison.


----------



## g.p.

It's like buying two SC600s and getting one for free.

Not bad. :thumbsup:


----------



## justanotherguy

g.p. said:


> It's like buying two SC600s and getting one for free.
> 
> Not bad. :thumbsup:



+1
!


----------



## toysareforboys

This thing is going to be an absolute MONSTER!







Can't wait for the "b" version, love just raw LED output!!






-Jamie M.


----------



## Philonous

I seriously want this light. Seriously. Very, very seriously. It has got to the stage where I am budgeting for this light in all kinds of ways (not just finance, but SPACE), even though it may not be out for months. I am thinking of places it could go in my backpack, how many 18650s I would want to have in reserve for it, and how I would carry them with me. It's maddening. But the light... *salivates*


----------



## Zenbaas

Seeing as there are a few lights manufacturers with similar offerings I would first wait for some independent reviews.


----------



## Zeruel

toysareforboys said:


>




Woah... it's shorter than TM11 by 1.5". oo:
It has moved up quite a few notches in my to-buy list.


----------



## f22shift

what do you guys usually use your 3xXML's for? i have a dry 3xml and it sits around mostly because of the weight and anything over 500lumens is not used often.


----------



## scout24

One of the beauties of this offering will be the insane runtimes in the lower modes if Zebralight stays true to form.  The big lumen outputs will just be a bonus IMHO...


----------



## sbbsga

f22shift said:


> what do you guys usually use your 3xXML's for? i have a dry 3xml and it sits around mostly because of the weight and anything over 500lumens is not used often.



I use mine to check the yards around the house, I just love the overkill.




scout24 said:


> One of the beauties of this offering will be the insane runtimes in the lower modes if Zebralight stays true to form.  The big lumen outputs will just be a bonus IMHO...



Totally agree. Hopefully S6330 will come with a holster.


----------



## g.p.

sbbsga said:


> Totally agree. Hopefully S6330 will come with a holster.


Looks like it'll fit nicely in a cup holder.


----------



## tobrien

g.p. said:


> Looks like it'll fit nicely in a cup holder.


haha very clever


----------



## samgab

A really powerful (RE) magnetic base could be useful...


----------



## sbbsga

g.p. said:


> Looks like it'll fit nicely in a cup holder.



Oh, no doubt. If TM11 fits, this wouldn't be a problem as long as the dimensions stay true. I just hope that the holster can dampen the rattling to protect the torch and the cup holders.


----------



## BirdofPrey

toysareforboys said:


> This thing is going to be an absolute MONSTER!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Jamie M.



I'm trying to imagine in my head whether or not this would realistically be too big to fit on my duty belt. I currently use a little 4Sevens Maelstrom (1st Gen) so obviously much larger than that but...


----------



## Pandorum

sbbsga said:


> I just saw the price for S6330 was set at USD199 in the product comparison.



150 would be a more reasonable price in my book.


----------



## moozooh

Lupine Betty TL S, Tiny Monster, and TN30 are all substantially more expensive (especially the Betty at 700$ or so) while not having ZL's power efficiency, handy UI, extremely compact size and other features ZL are constantly introducing in their lights. 200$ is a fair price at worst.


----------



## biglights

moozooh said:


> Lupine Betty TL S, Tiny Monster, and TN30 are all substantially more expensive (especially the Betty at 700$ or so) while not having ZL's power efficiency, handy UI, extremely compact size and other features ZL are constantly introducing in their lights. 200$ is a fair price at worst.




That is how I was looking at it also. $200 is reasonable, any more and I would have to pass.


----------



## guiri

BirdofPrey said:


> I'm trying to imagine in my head whether or not this would realistically be too big to fit on my duty belt. I currently use a little 4Sevens Maelstrom (1st Gen) so obviously much larger than that but...



It's not that big 'cause I have the Nitecore TM11 and it's pretty damn small (mine comes with a holster). May I suggest you mock something up
with maybe a paper towel tube and something to see if it's too big?

Also, depending on where you are, you could ask if someone has one (or similar light) close to you that you can take a look at.

Hell, had it not been for the gold color, I would recommend that chinese TM11 knock off as I've heard great stuff about it
and it's only like 80 bucks or so, shipped.

George


----------



## don.gwapo

Size, UI & output will be the best selling point of this light. Heck the S6330*B* is even shorter by 1/2 inch. oo:.

Hope they will release this light before the end of this year!


----------



## toysareforboys

don.gwapo said:


> Size, UI & output will be the best selling point of this light. Heck the S6330*B* is even shorter by 1/2 inch. oo:.


Nice! The ONLY light I'll be ordering is the B version.

Like I say, go naked, or go home  I love my flood!

Stock Sipik SK68 flashlight is on the right, in zoomed out/flood mode... my custom "naked" version on the left!




LICK FOR HIGH RES!




LICK FOR HIGH RES!

That's a 132 degree beam angle! The pics were taken with the flashlights 3.75" from the wall, and with my new "flood"/naked configuration the flood beam was a mind blowing 17 inches in diameter! INSANE!

Woot for naked and a little high temp BBQ paint:




LICK FOR HIGH RES!

I placed it on my pool table (about the middle of the room) facing the ceiling, it lit up the entire room perfectly even!! The beam on the ceiling was as big as the pool table if not larger, and gave a nice warm light to the whole room! Check out the cool beam cut off above the "bar" 




LICK FOR SUPER DUPER HIGH RES! Or LICK HERE FOR JUST HIGH RES!

That photo is at 1/2sec exposure *ISO 100* f3.5 at 18mm on my stock 18-55mm lens. NOT a long exposure! 

I love my floods, can't wait for this Zebra B version!

-Jamie M.


----------



## Pandorum

moozooh said:


> Lupine Betty TL S, Tiny Monster, and TN30 are all substantially more expensive (especially the Betty at 700$ or so) while not having ZL's power efficiency, handy UI, extremely compact size and other features ZL are constantly introducing in their lights. 200$ is a fair price at worst.



Guess you have a point but I always felt the Nitecore TM 11 was overpriced. The Lupine well I don't even want to think about that price!


----------



## Matjazz

Pandorum said:


> ... I always felt the Nitecore TM 11 was overpriced.


Me too but then I got it for $150 from gunsafari :twothumbs


----------



## toby_pra

very cool little monster


----------



## ZRXBILL

Great, I've been going nuts deciding between the Thrunite TN30 & the Sunwayman T60CS and now I see this.


----------



## moldyoldy

ZRXBILL said:


> Great, I've been going nuts deciding between the Thrunite TN30 & the Sunwayman T60CS and now I see this.



been there, bought the T60, no regrets. 

The TN30 with more lumens unfortunately has a deeper cut reflector for the 3x XML LEDs which produces many more artifacts in the spill beam. Given that the TN31 was also being offered, I am not sure why the reflector is so deep with what appears to be an attempt at more throw from a 3x XML light. 

On the other hand, the T60 beam, both spot and spill, is very clean. 

The Zebralight 6330 has been on the 2012 proposed list for a while, eventually it will be offered/sold, and I may purchase it because of the individual 18650 management. 

Bottom line for 2012 & high-lumen lights for me: I do not regret the T60 purchase - a very nice light!


----------



## carl

moldyoldy said:


> been there, bought the T60, no regrets...
> Bottom line for 2012 & high-lumen lights for me: I do not regret the T60 purchase - a very nice light!



Glad to hear the SWM T60CS is a good light! Its on my short list of 'to get' lights. Is the low setting low enough for midnight bathroom runs? Some reviews put the low at between 50 - 75 lumens rather than the factory-rated 20 lumens. Just wondering....


----------



## carl

repeat post.


----------



## carl

repeat post


----------



## moldyoldy

carl said:


> Glad to hear the SWM T60CS is a good light! Its on my short list of 'to get' lights. Is the low setting low enough for midnight bathroom runs? Some reviews put the low at between 50 - 75 lumens rather than the factory-rated 20 lumens. Just wondering....



well, I am a bit short on lights to compare with right now - a bunch left in the last week or so and am waiting for replenischments. However, a snap opinion is that the lowest level of the T60 is a brighter than 20 lumens and bordering on too bright for bathroom runs past sleeping family - unless you cup the head in your carrying hand.

In comparing the T60 with a few lights that I do have, the T60 on the lowest level is comparable with the SC600 on M1 and maybe with the LD41 on level 2 (1 level up from the lowest level), and a bit brighter than the SC51 on M1. Note that I am avoiding guesstimating any lumen numbers. Caveat: The varying spot sizes make the brightness difficult to compare and it is several hours from dark enough to do a ceiling bounce test.

My bottom line is the same: absolutely no regrets on purchasing the T60!


----------



## carl

toysareforboys said:


> This thing is going to be an absolute MONSTER!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait for the "b" version, love just raw LED output!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Jamie M.



Just a few observations from the picture:

1) Does anyone notice a faint circular pattern in the middle of the butt-end of the light? It seems to have some depth to it. Is that a recharger port?
2) The battery tube appears to unscrew at the base of the head - this is a departure of ZL's usual one piece head/tube design which aids in heat transfer from the head to tube. For reduced heat-transfer reasons, I am not in favor of this design.
3) There seems to be no replaceable bezel ring in case of dings/dents/etc.. This is consistent with the removable-head design which gives quick access to the lens from the base of the head, thus negating the need for a bezel ring.
4) The overall appearance is super plain - to say the least - even plainer than the rest of the ZL line - which have much nicer mill-work with asymmetric contoured and finned heads with raised areas around the switch. As it is, the S6330 looks so symmetric as though most of the machinework was done on a lathe - much less mill-work when compared to previous models.

But other than that, it looks like another great light! Can't wait for its release!


----------



## carl

moldy - thanks for your input! Two more questions about the T60CS: Is there any audible whine on turbo or max? Does the switch click audibly when switching modes once its already on? The ZLs don't click audibly at all so was wondering for comparison.


----------



## moldyoldy

carl said:


> moldy - thanks for your input! Two more questions about the T60CS: Is there any audible whine on turbo or max? Does the switch click audibly when switching modes once its already on? The ZLs don't click audibly at all so was wondering for comparison.



Ref audible whine: I have not noticed any audible whine when turned on. I perceive a very brief startup whine when switching from off to max. nothing continuous.

Caveat: I suffered some hearing loss while in the military, so I am not the best low-level noise evaluator any more...

Ref switch clicks: yes, the switch click is audible on the T60, although it is asymmetrical. Meaning, depressing the switch makes a lower click sound than releasing the switch which is louder. 

Note that depressing the T60 electronic switch does nothing at that instant. The switch electronics are waiting for either a timeout during depressing the switch - in which case it immediately jumps to max lumens - or for a switch release which would turn on the light in the last mode used. 

Also, if you depressed the switch and held it depressed, the light will switch to max mode and stay there. To access the other levels, you need to release the switch and then depress and hold it depressed to cycle thru the various levels.

FWIW, the difference between max and the next level down is not very visible. The primary advantage of the next lower level from max is thereby the increased runtime!


----------



## moldyoldy

carl said:


> moldy - thanks for your input! Two more questions about the T60CS: Is there any audible whine on turbo or max? Does the switch click audibly when switching modes once its already on? The ZLs don't click audibly at all so was wondering for comparison.



Ummm, all of the ZLs that I have make audible clicks with their switches. ?? The SC600 has the loudest switch click. The SC51 is noticeably quieter.


----------



## carl

moldyoldy said:


> Ummm, all of the ZLs that I have make audible clicks with their switches. ?? The SC600 has the loudest switch click. The SC51 is noticeably quieter.



moldy - thanks again for your input. You're right about the ZL switch making a noise but i characterize all such electronic switches as having a snapping sound while the T60CS seems to have more of a mechanical tinnie click sound similar to, well, clickies like my C2 surefire, etc... All my lights are standard mechanical tail clickies - which I am moving away from and toward side switches. But I am only assuming since I am only going by you tube videos since I don't have either a ZL or a SWM....yet. I love the way the T60CS looks (way nicer IMHO than the S6330) but prefer to wait on that $200 purchase until the S6330 comes out and gets reviewed. I only want one mega-output light and can't afford both.

BTW, about your hearing loss - the high frequency band is the first to go - I hope it doesn't disrupt your ability to hear normal conversation, etc...like it did with my dad - that would be a bummer.


----------



## moldyoldy

carl said:


> moldy - thanks again for your input. You're right about the ZL switch making a noise but i characterize all such electronic switches as having a snapping sound while the T60CS seems to have more of a mechanical tinnie click sound similar to, well, clickies like my C2 surefire, etc... All my lights are standard mechanical tail clickies - which I am moving away from and toward side switches. But I am only assuming since I am only going by you tube videos since I don't have either a ZL or a SWM....yet. I love the way the T60CS looks (way nicer IMHO than the S6330) but prefer to wait on that $200 purchase until the S6330 comes out and gets reviewed. I only want one mega-output light and can't afford both.
> 
> BTW, about your hearing loss - the high frequency band is the first to go - I hope it doesn't disrupt your ability to hear normal conversation, etc...like it did with my dad - that would be a bummer.



Ref my hearing loss: yes, too much radio static and copious releases of kinetic energy can cause problems, both then and later. Casual conversations are somewhat impeded until I tune in to the speaker(s). However the term "plausible deniability" has a new meaning when my wife of 37+ years attempts to carry on what is commonly referred to as "small talk". Common responses from me are: "Are you talking to me?" and "yes, I heard someone talking, but (fill in some appropriate slippery answer here)".......  To stay married for that long requires a significant ability to "tune out" and "ignore" disturbing people and events. I know some Grandpas who simply turn off their hearing aid to solve the problem. 

Back on topic - The question of switches and switch styles: The single complaint that I have about the T60CS is that the rubberized switch is located in an indent which can be confused with the other anti-roll indents. I hope that ZL solves that problem. I have no problem finding the SC600 or SC51 switches quickly, although they also have a slight tendency to roll.

The Fenix response of two side switches is a swag at a solution. An alternative is two tail switches. the usual one switch to turn on and one switch to change modes/levels. Single tail clickies can work, but switching modes with the same switch as used for turning on is confusing to the uninitiated and possibly dangerous under time pressure.

In any case, I probably use my collection of lights more in tail standing mode than hand-holding mode. ie: no ability to tail stand, no purchase. hence for me that means no "tactical" switches that protrude. If I need to turn on a weapon light, then the pressure switches are far preferable to moving a hand to push a button.


----------



## ZRXBILL

moldyoldy said:


> been there, bought the T60, no regrets.
> 
> The TN30 with more lumens unfortunately has a deeper cut reflector for the 3x XML LEDs which produces many more artifacts in the spill beam. Given that the TN31 was also being offered, I am not sure why the reflector is so deep with what appears to be an attempt at more throw from a 3x XML light.
> 
> On the other hand, the T60 beam, both spot and spill, is very clean.
> 
> The Zebralight 6330 has been on the 2012 proposed list for a while, eventually it will be offered/sold, and I may purchase it because of the individual 18650 management.
> 
> Bottom line for 2012 & high-lumen lights for me: I do not regret the T60 purchase - a very nice light!



Thanks, I guess the thing I like best in the TN30 over the T60CS is its 932 lumen mode between 352 & 1580 where the T60CS jumps from 360 straight to 1680 which will more than likely be no problem with the ZL S6330


----------



## carl

Moldy, 

Well at least it sounds like you are making your hearing loss work FOR you! That's a first!


----------



## carl

ZebraLight said:


> The profile/size of each reflector is EXACTLY the same as the SC600.



Say this isn't so! This would mean the S6330 is going to be pure flood and little throw. I would much prefer more throw with a higher-power light of this kind. Please consider using a a deeper reflector profile similar to the Spark SL6 rather than the Zebralight SC600. Thank you for listening.


----------



## kengps

I own a T60CS and love it. The quality level of Sunwayman is great. I love my Zebralights too, but I would never pay $200 for a light with 15,750 lux. The T60CS has the perfect throw/spot size mix I think. (It has 34,100 lux) As some others have said.....The only think wrong with the T60CS is the switch is hard to find by feel. It needs to have a ring, or recess it into the body so you can find it in the dark. I would like to see Zebralight offer some lights with more throw. I just ordered a Nitecore EC1. It is a side-switch light similar in layout to Zebralights' SC31. But it makes around 400 lumens on an RCR and makes 6500 lux. My XPG powered H31 is only around 3000 lux. Nitecore quality totally sucks, so will Zebralight please make a light like the EC1 and EC2 please? Use XPG2 and use a little bit larger, deeper reflector like the EC's have. With XPG2 it should do about 500 lumens and make 9600 lux. (thats what modders are getting with XPG2 in the EC2) With Zebralight quality and UI it would be my perfect pocket light.


----------



## WmArnold1

carl said:


> Say this isn't so! This would mean the S6330 is going to be pure flood and little throw. I would much prefer more throw with a higher-power light of this kind. Please consider using a a deeper reflector profile similar to the Spark SL6 rather than the Zebralight SC600. Thank you for listening.



I'm afraid it's going to be so, Carl; The S6330 is essentially three SC600's merged together with the same 80 degree spill-cone and 10 degree spot-cone. Earlier in this thread (here) I estimated that 37% of the lumens are in the spot-cone and 63% of the lumens are in the spill-cone.

Imho, that beam pattern works beautifully when when you're working within a 10-yard radius, but the flood becomes distracting when you're looking farther than 20-yards out.

I don't need 2250-2400 Lumens to work within a 10-yard radius; I already bump my SC600 down a lot. *I'm buying a higher-power light to work 20-yards out and beyond.*

The bottom line; when I look for a bigger light, I'm looking for a narrower spill-cone, or, best of all; the _*same *80-degree spill-cone, just with fewer Lumens within it; as TIR (total internal reflection) optics could do without increasing any outside diameters. ==> I'm visualizing triple XM-L's feeding three merged TIR's!!!
_
In fact; there could even be interchangeable TIR lenses allowing people to select the spot/throw configuration that works best for them. I would buy more than one lens too.. ~grins~

ZebraLight: please consider TIR optics for the S6330. At least one. :naughty:


----------



## twl

I agree with WmArnold1 on the subject of triple floods.
I like them all right, but it seems that everybody and his uncle are now mashing 3 of their older model lights together into one housing and calling it "big lumens".
It's like the easy way out to make a big number, so that people will say "WOW!".

Basically, I think that we've now seen practically every Chinese maker throw these XML triples out there, and they are all over DX and every other cheap outlet imaginable, it's time somebody got a new idea. Some new "brand version" of the same old thing is tiresome after the millionth iteration. The first few were "WOW!", and the rest were "Me too".
And I really don't mean the 4,5,6, 8, 10 XML flashlights mashed into some even huger single-housing, to make "even bigger lumens" with the same basic idea to the "nth degree".

Some optics or beams that have some throw would be nice. And WmArnold's idea of interchangeable optics sounds real cool, but I don't know about the technical possibilities of that. 
If Zebralight intends to be something better than the next flashlight on the block, then they need to show it. Just another triple XML flooder isn't setting them apart. Especially entering this late in the game with the same old product that everybody else has had available for a year or more.


----------



## Zenbaas

Agreed my SC600 does flood well enough. Need this to have some proper throw otherwise there's no point for me.


----------



## AnAppleSnail

I imagine, but would not create, a strange beastie reminiscent of the Spy Triple V, but without varying tints. The overall light is ellispoidal in body cross-section, and the head expands a bit on both of the 'flat' sides. There is a cylindrical 'transition' section between the ovoid body holding a control ring.

The reason for that head lump is the bare (XM-L or XP-G2) emitter. Perhaps it sits under a glass/acrylic dome. One (XP-G2) emitter (Half of the ellipsoid head) is in a typical Zebralight reflector. The other (XP-G2, ultimate throw is not the goal) is behind an aspheric lens focused for decent throw. (1 bare, 2 std, 3 aspheric)

The control ring selects the emitter and has 6 positions (1, 12, 2, 23, 3, 13 in order) The interface is otherwise as a standard ZL electronic clicky. The indicator on the control ring points to the emitter selected, with reasonable detents to avoid missing intent.

So with the control ring in Pos 1 and a single click, I get High1 Flood. With the control ring at 23 and 1-second press-hold, I get ZL beam + Aspheric in L1.

I wouldn't actually want to make this because of the complexity of the above UI shrinking the market share size. It would be 3 SC600 circuits duct-taped together, but they would speak through different optics.

How's THAT for a ZL rumor?

Crap, wrong thread. Anyway, there's no 123 mode because that would be silly. (4A max vs 6A max) It's already bright as crap and this lets it run on only 1-2 18650s or 4 really quality AAs.


----------



## carl

Zenbaas said:


> Agreed my SC600 does flood well enough. Need this to have some proper throw otherwise there's no point for me.



If this S6330 is going to be nothing more than a flood light, is there anything we can do to head-off this disaster before its released?


----------



## oKtosiTe

carl said:


> If this S6330 is going to be nothing more than a flood light, is there anything we can do to head-off this disaster before its released?



Disaster? I consider my TM11 slightly too throwy. Wouldn't have minded a more gradual, wider hotspot.
So to me the upcoming ZLs look quite interesting.


----------



## maxrep12

carl said:


> If this S6330 is going to be nothing more than a flood light, is there anything we can do to head-off this disaster before its released?


Flood lights are more usefull than throwers, in general. This becomes especially true as lights increase their lumen output. With 2400 lumens, I expect to have use of my peripheral vision. 

Beachball hotspots are more of a parlor trick than a utility.


----------



## tonkem

carl said:


> If this S6330 is going to be nothing more than a flood light, is there anything we can do to head-off this disaster before its released?



Hey Carl, the flood monster will be the bare LED version of the 6330. This one will be more like the SC600 as far as flood, which has a decent throw on high, but is not going to win any throw contests. When I took my Betty TL-S with the 26 deg 2600 lumen head out, it is like lighting up everything in front of you, but also throws ok, but obviously over a wide area, when on the highest level


----------



## moozooh

People are arguing about this as if there aren't enough dedicated throwers... Especially considering there's literally nothing else to light up a huge area like SC6330 and especially SC6330b are going to do for the kind of price ZL are asking. This light will throw 250 yards easily on max power, and for the rest you have ThruNite and Olight and saabluster's mods.


----------



## WmArnold1

moozooh said:


> People are arguing about this as if there aren't enough dedicated throwers... Especially considering there's literally nothing else to light up a huge area like SC6330 and especially SC6330b are going to do for the kind of price ZL are asking. This light will throw 250 yards easily on max power, and for the rest you have ThruNite and Olight and saabluster's mods.



I disagree with you, moozoh; the bare S6330 will *not* throw out to 250 yards. Technically, I figure that 37% of the 750 lumens from each led are in the 10-degree spot-cone and, although that calculates out to 218 meters for each of the three hot-spots, I still feel comfortable saying that the geometric precision of three merged SC600 reflectors will *not* focus the combined 832 hot-spot-lumens (3 * 750 * 37%) within a 65 meter diameter spot at 250 yards. (that's 0.25 lux) Let alone the 44 meter diameter spot a perfect 10-degree cone would produce.

More importantly, as I explained in detail here; *the "throw" of a light is as much a factor of the spill as it is of the spot.* Because, if you're spilling 1710 lumens (3 * 750 * 63%) into a 80-degree cone from the S6330; there's going to be so much nearby illumination that your pupils will choke-down somewhat and your retina will not even begin to process anything illuminated by 0.25 lux at 250 yards.

I really don't want to start a debate about what constitutes throw though. My only desire is for manufactures other than Surefire to use TIR optics for precise control of the spot & spill cones. And, with TIR, you can control the percentage of lumens going between spot & spill independently of the angles too!

I don't know if it would be everyone's cup of tea, but I think I'd like to have, say, 80% of the lumens going into a 10-degree spot-cone and 20% of the lumens going into a 60-degree spill-cone. That way, the spill wouldn't be quite as near or quite as bright and the spot would (technically) throw out to 550 meters!

For the record; I wouldn't truly expect to *use* that light at 550 meters, but I'll bet it would kick-*** out to 300+ tho! YMMV.


----------



## juplin

Anyway, the beam pattern of S6330 will be excellent for bike light.


----------



## moozooh

WmArnold1 said:


> I disagree with you, moozoh; the bare S6330 will *not* throw out to 250 yards. Technically, I figure that 37% of the 750 lumens from each led are in the 10-degree spot-cone and, although that calculates out to 218 meters for each of the three hot-spots, I still feel comfortable saying that the geometric precision of three merged SC600 reflectors will *not* focus the combined 832 hot-spot-lumens (3 * 750 * 37%) within a 65 meter diameter spot at 250 yards. (that's 0.25 lux) Let alone the 44 meter diameter spot a perfect 10-degree cone would produce.



That's 3*800*37% to be more exact. 250 yards is not much more than the 200 or so SC600 throws to, I dunno, maybe you're right. I think whatever it will throw to will be sufficient for actual use.



WmArnold1 said:


> More importantly, as I explained in detail here; *the "throw" of a light is as much a factor of the spill as it is of the spot.* Because, if you're spilling 1710 lumens (3 * 750 * 63%) into a 80-degree cone from the S6330; there's going to be so much nearby illumination that your pupils will choke-down somewhat and your retina will not even begin to process anything illuminated by 0.25 lux at 250 yards.



You can't throw this argument out without telling how much is "so much". Pupils are choked down by the intensity of light (lux), not overall amount of light emitted (lumens), and there won't be significantly more lux "nearby" than there would be from the aforementioned SC600 because they're spread over a wide area, a _very_ wide area.



WmArnold1 said:


> That way, the spill wouldn't be quite as near or quite as bright and the spot would (technically) throw out to 550 meters!
> 
> For the record; I wouldn't truly expect to *use* that light at 550 meters, but I'll bet it would kick-*** out to 300+ tho! YMMV.



Yeah, I'm sure you understand that wouldn't be very useful at all. There are about two things requiring illumination at >300 meters, one of them being very specific professions (military service, search and rescue, and law enforcement) ZebraLight clearly aren't targeting, the other being flashaholic bragging and obsession with numbers. ZL are making utility lights, and they're great at that, which is why this one illuminates _larger_ area, not _farther_ area. They emphasize on that by making a modification that illuminates _even larger_ area.

The only point I agree with you on is that more manufacturers need to start using TIR optics in their light, but I, for one, don't want it for the throw in this particular light, but rather for even beam. But the reasons this isn't happening might be due to some patent encumbrance we may not know about. The only non-custom flashlight brand I know of that is using TIR optics is Surefire (you might want to correct me on that). For what it's worth, we know they like being a-holes about everything they've patented. I really don't think there are many more reasons for manufacturers to stick with reflectors.


----------



## twl

The other triple XML lights out there with this kind of format don't throw much, and I don't expect this one to either.
If it throws 150 yards in a useful manner, that would be typical for a light of this type. Especially since its specs show a fairly narrow head size, which means it won't have much reflector size on each of those LEDs.


----------



## WmArnold1

moozooh said:


> ...The only point I agree with you on is that more manufacturers need to start using TIR optics in their light, but I, for one, don't want it for the throw in this particular light, but rather for even beam. But the reasons this isn't happening might be due to some patent encumbrance we may not know about. The only non-custom flashlight brand I know of that is using TIR optics is Surefire (you might want to correct me on that). For what it's worth, we know they like being a-holes about everything they've patented. I really don't think there are many more reasons for manufacturers to stick with reflectors.



Then we agree on the only thing I truly care about Moozooh - TIR optics! - Kudos; Fwiw, I got sucked into the throw/spill fracas when I reported here that I could read house-numbers better at 25 yards with my 200 Lumen oLight T20-Q5 because it throws better and the side-spill isn't so overwhelming. The point I was trying to make was that spill is relevant and I debate-ably doubt that the S6330 would work much better on house-numbers than my SC600 does. I don't need to work at 300+ yards, but that's probably the 0.25 lux limit of a good 50-100 yard working light. I wish everyone would use the 1.0 lux standard for throw..

Btw, I respect the bike-light folks and anyone who wants more light within, say, a 15 yard radius. But, my SC600 EDC completely floats my boat within 15 yards.

I'm almost certain that TIR's are not generally patented and Inova was the first TIR in mass-production - I still have several of them too. Although design & prototype costs are really high, TIR's end up being just a COC or Acrylic injection molded part in production. Imho, the entire LED flashlight craze begets from the Luminous-Efficacy of LED's and I can't fathom why more manufactures don't follow-through with the delivery efficiency of TIR optics - it's like they're drag-racing with cheap bias-ply tires - more TIR slicks please!


----------



## g.p.

maxrep12 said:


> Flood lights are more usefull than throwers, in general. This becomes especially true as lights increase their lumen output. With 2400 lumens, I expect to have use of my peripheral vision.
> 
> Beachball hotspots are more of a parlor trick than a utility.





tonkem said:


> Hey Carl, the flood monster will be the bare LED version of the 6330. This one will be more like the SC600 as far as flood, which has a decent throw on high, but is not going to win any throw contests. When I took my Betty TL-S with the 26 deg 2600 lumen head out, it is like lighting up everything in front of you, but also throws ok, but obviously over a wide area, when on the highest level





moozooh said:


> People are arguing about this as if there aren't enough dedicated throwers... Especially considering there's literally nothing else to light up a huge area like SC6330 and especially SC6330b are going to do for the kind of price ZL are asking. This light will throw 250 yards easily on max power, and for the rest you have ThruNite and Olight and saabluster's mods.


+1

I'm very happy with the throw/spill on my sc600. It's a perfect compromise for everyday use, and on high it lights up the house on the far end of my street. I suspect that three SC600's bundled together will only do it better...and the price is like buying two sc600's and getting one for free! 

If you want a thrower...go buy one of the many models available and quit complaining about the s6330. You need big reflectors, not lumens, to have a great thrower. A huge reflector would defeat the whole purpose of the s6330 - large output in the most compact size.


----------



## WmArnold1

g.p. said:


> ...If you want a thrower...go buy one of the many models available and quit complaining about the s6330. _*You need big reflectors, [emphasis added]*_ not lumens, to have a great thrower. A huge reflector would defeat the whole purpose of the s6330 - large output in the most compact size.



Yes, No, and Yes; G.P! There's plenty of super-size reflectors in the market and there's also plenty of shower-head XM-L flooder's too. But one does *not* need big reflectors for a tightly controlled beam, and that misconception is exactly why I'm advocating TIR. I'm not a optical-engineer, but I believe that the diameter can stay about the same as it currently is, and the overall length might grow a little if a lot of spill is desired. I.e; the shortest TIR lens throws almost like an aspheric, the tallest one floods in a ring.

==> And that's my point: Manufactures can dial-in whatever spot/spill parameters they want with minimal dimensional penalty. And, there isn't many TIR's in the market right now either. Imho, ZL has won enough volume in the SC600 to consider the high up-front costs of designing a TIR lens (or two ;-) and shooting for another slam-dunk high-volume product with their S6330. Otherwise, I predict an also-rans. Just my $0.02; YMMV.


----------



## g.p.

As long as it's not like an aspheric with little to no spill.


----------



## tobrien

g.p. said:


> As long as it's not like an aspheric with little to no spill.



i doubt ZL would ever make one like that lol


----------



## WmArnold1

WmArnold1 said:


> ...I'm almost certain that TIR's are not generally patented and Inova was the first TIR in mass-production - I still have several of them too. Although design & prototype costs are really high, TIR's end up being just a COC or Acrylic injection molded part in production. Imho, the entire LED flashlight craze begets from the Luminous-Efficacy of LED's and I can't fathom why more manufactures don't follow-through with the delivery efficiency of TIR optics - it's like they're drag-racing with cheap bias-ply tires - more TIR slicks please!



Um, I may have been wrong above, but I still do not believe that TIR's _*in general*_ are patented because Inova brought "TIROS" to market in April of 2004. ( And that's what brought me into CPF  However, Surefire does in fact hold at least two patents mentioning TIR: 8007156 & 8033690 and I find that especially interesting because these two patents were granted in 2011 while the 2005 patent-application 0201100 was _*not *_granted..

Surefire's patents might explain why there isn't more TIR's in the market though; nobody wins when when the lawyers have to get involved.  [just kidding; I've won three patents myself. Lawyers definitely take the fun out of inventing though.]


----------



## carl

There are many aspects of this discussion on spill vs throw which I never considered before - great info!

I guess we can all anticipate and hope for some really positive things to come with this new S6330. 

1) I just noticed the head diameter for the ZL S6330 is 2.25 inch = 57mm. 
2) The TM11 and TM15 and Sunwayman T60CS all have head diameters of 60mm.
3) I wonder if 3mm will make any difference either way - I assume this means 3 shallower reflectors for the S6330 or more overlap of the 3 reflectors towards the center.


----------



## levelflight

It looks like a Zebralight s6330 vs. Nitecore TM15 shootout at the OK corral is inevitable. Coming soon...
I'm hoping I don't have to dip into my wallet twice to placate the inner need for bright speed!









I sure hope SelfBuilt has some bench time set aside for a quick turn on the inside track for these two.


----------



## Bwolcott

levelflight said:


> It looks like a Zebralight s6330 vs. Nitecore TM15 shootout at the OK corral is inevitable. Coming soon...
> I'm hoping I don't have to dip into my wallet twice to placate the inner need for bright speed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope SelfBuilt has some bench time set aside for a quick turn on the inside track for these two.





I think the tk15 will throw much better


----------



## levelflight

It depends upon what you want to compare, I feel. My assessment mostly considers the form factor,
battery capacity, and overall output, along with the UI. Your priority interests are quite likely to differ.
I have in mind the somewhat humorous image of two LED cowboys dueling it out at low noon
behind the big barn, stubby little canons in hand. Wham!! Everybody wins!


----------



## tonkem

Looks like, according to their Facebook page, they will be releasing pics and specs soon:

ZebraLight, Inc. Will release photos and specs before the end of next week. 

They released photos of new batteries and the SC52 already


----------



## carl

tonkem said:


> Looks like, according to their Facebook page, they will be releasing pics and specs soon:
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc. Will release photos and specs before the end of next week.
> 
> They released photos of new batteries and the SC52 already





Good news! Can't wait!


----------



## xed888

Zebra light has released pics of the 6330 on their Facebook page! Go check it out!


----------



## server

here are the pics they released for those who don't use facebook:
http://i.imgur.com/NyGZG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GfS3x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OnP9e.jpg

they wrote: S6330 3*(XM-L+18650) 2400Lm and ZL631 Batteries
the batteries are: ZL631 18650, protected, Panasonic 3100mAh cell


----------



## kolbasz

It still looks like a low quality flashlight, not a premium product from a premium manufacturer.
The reflector is so ugly, that it needs some optical tuning, like by the TM11

Sorry zebralight, but please keep working on it! 
It worth, because this sector is getting more and more popular!


----------



## Triffid

kolbasz said:


> The reflector is so ugly


Agree. I'm disappointed.


----------



## CVLPA

There doesn't seem to be anyway to fasten a lanyard.


----------



## Bwolcott

the size is insane!


----------



## raphaello

It does appear to be a light without a "character", let say, but it is still way ahead (aesthetically) of THE most ugliest flashlights - Olight's ... and particularly the BATON series ... man those are some awful looking lights :sick2just my opinion). 
Anyways, if this flashlight performs as great as I've heard it would, I really don't care how it looks at all ! 

Really looking forward to this beast :devil:


----------



## juplin

CVLPA said:


> There doesn't seem to be anyway to fasten a lanyard.


Fasten a string between the cooling fins ? :mecry:


----------



## excfenix

Yeah it's Kinda ugly overall. But the reflector has little difference to the TM11 other than the Nitecore plastic pieces that fill in the gaps. I wish it had the Zebralight logo on it to make look more 'premium' like the SC600. But function > looks, always.


----------



## papageorgio

I'm surprised it doesn't have the natural HA like all their lights. I like the look of the natural HA.


----------



## Mr460mag

I hope it will come with a god beltpouch. An if the pouch has molle attachment, I will be even more happy. The light also need a lanyard attachment, and battery indikator would be nice


----------



## carl

1) Super-generic appearance. The SC600 and the SC52 are much better-looking lights with curvatures and milled areas. I was hoping for a jumbo-size SC600. Oh well.

2) Super shallow reflectors for short distances only, so small they don't even override each other in the middle. When a Zebralight Rep. previously said the reflector was like three SC600 reflectors put together, they weren't kidding.

3) I like the stainless lens retainer ring except it doesn't protrude enough out front to protect against drops.

4) Very compact which is goodness.

5) No lanyard hole. 

6) Where's the recharger port? Do we still have to unscrew the battery case from the head to recharge?


It probably follows the usual Zebralight theme - flood beam, very compact - barely longer than the battery, reflector which avoids unusual beam patterns (other 3xLED reflectors override in the middle causing unusual spill patterns), a low-low beam, a very wide beam intensity range, super run times and driver efficiency, virtually no extra space used up for switch location, etc.. 

Very interesting - Can't wait for a review with beamshots! 

Server - thanks for the pic links.


----------



## moozooh

carl said:


> 6) Where's the recharger port? Do we still have to unscrew the battery case from the head to recharge?



"The" recharger port? The notion never went beyond speculation, and even that was quickly dispelled with the first photo a couple pages back. It's the same as SC600: turn off the tail, take the batteries out, recharge separately.


----------



## carl

moozooh said:


> "The" recharger port? The notion never went beyond speculation, and even that was quickly dispelled with the first photo a couple pages back. It's the same as SC600: turn off the tail, take the batteries out, recharge separately.



I was hoping the notion was a true one, maybe on the side of the head not showing in the photo - similar to the side port on the TM15. So much for speculations and notions here on CPF. Maybe I let my imagination get carried away...


----------



## g.p.

Black!?!?! :green:

:thumbsdow


----------



## brightasday

g.p. said:


> Black!?!?! :green:
> 
> :thumbsdow



That was my reaction too! I really like the usual color of Zebralights. Somehow black is less appealing, and makes it seem like the cheap knockoffs. IMO the first picture, comparing the 6330 to a Maglite, looked much better.


----------



## biglights

So far this is a big let down, lets hope the performance will make up for it.


----------



## jfl

I like the black HA coating, but is there going to be a neutral version at launch?


----------



## g.p.

jfl said:


> I like the black HA coating, but is there going to be a neutral version at launch?


Why does this question come out in every new light thread? Every manufacturer that I have ever seen comment on the subject say that neutral/warm versions do not sell compared to the standard versions. Therefore warm/nuetral tints are not their main priority because making money is their main priority! 

So despite warm/neutral tint lovers being very vocal, they are not the majority (at least not with their wallets) and need to wait it out.


----------



## jfl

g.p. said:


> Why does this question come out in every new light thread? Every manufacturer that I have ever seen comment on the subject say that neutral/warm versions do not sell compared to the standard versions. Therefore warm/nuetral tints are not their main priority because making money is their main priority!
> 
> So despite warm/neutral tint lovers being very vocal, they are not the majority (at least not with their wallets) and need to wait it out.



What you say may be so, but I just counted off 12 neutral Zebralights from their product comparison page, so it seems this particular company is interested in producing neutral lights, even if they may not sell as well. I was just excited about having a neutral version at launch date - that's all - and was hoping that Zebralight would reply. 

So, anyway, say what you will, but I won't let you take away my hope and enthusiasm.


----------



## twl

4500k and above is relatively acceptable as "near white", and sort of "neutral" in certain ways since it's not too far from real neutral of sunlight, which is 5500k-6500k.
"Warm" is a yellow colored light.

That being said, if a person likes yellow colored lights, he should be able to buy them if he wants them.


----------



## romteb

Definitly not the design language of Zebralight (except for the size), looks like a thrunite or cheap OEM, the only thing missing is a tacky logo.

Screams cheaper subcontractor...


----------



## juplin

CVLPA said:


> There doesn't seem to be anyway to fasten a lanyard.


Someone said in Facebook that V2 of S6330 will be able to fasten a lanyard.
Shall we bypass this version and wait for V2 of S6330 :thinking:


----------



## twl

I agree that it doesn't look like typical Zebralight manufacture/style.
Some generic subcontractor probably.


----------



## carl

juplin said:


> Someone said in Facebook that V2 of S6330 will be able to fasten a lanyard.
> Shall we bypass this version and wait for V2 of S6330 :thinking:



Can we have deeper reflectors for V3?
And a recharger port for V4?
And a blue or red switch beacon for V5?


----------



## moozooh

Can we also have it named TM15 for v6? 

That "someone" who mentioned lanyard in v2 isn't a ZL employee, and it wasn't even a statement. That being said, I'm genuinely surprised there's no lanyard attachment for the light that arguably needs it the most. Maybe it's on the other side of the body?


----------



## carl

moozooh said:


> Can we also have it named TM15 for v6?



LOL - You read my mind!


What ZL should do is make the tail end like the Spark SP6. Then you get the lanyard AND recharger port plus a bit of extra length to get more grip for larger hands. As it is, it looks almost too short, especially if its only 4 inches long. Short is ok for a small diameter 18650 light but maybe not so for a large diameter 3X18650 light. No one wants to grip this thing with just 3 fingers around the battery tube!

Is someone working on a review (turboBB, selfbuilt, etc..?)


----------



## RedForest UK

Removed for reasons stated below.


----------



## flame2000

Look wise, it's not going to score high points. For a fat stubby light, I find the budget Skyray King too be much better looking than this.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Two posts were deleted that do not pertain to this thread.

Bill


----------



## Fireclaw18

flame2000 said:


> Look wise, it's not going to score high points. For a fat stubby light, I find the budget Skyray King too be much better looking than this.



I don't think the new zebralight looks any worse than a Skyray King. It's probably more compact which is a good thing. But I do agree that it looks very generic. From the cylindrical shape to the black anodizing... it looks very generic. Previous Zebralights have all had a unique look starting with their grey anodizing.... but this new Zebralight seems to lack that.

Hopefully the production light will have grey anodizing.


----------



## carl

If it had some of the high-end features that other Zebralight/Spark lights already have, I could live with the generic looks. 



BTW, Does anyone know how to post the facebook pics here? thanks.


----------



## juplin

Shall we wait for a right version with lanyard hole or we just tolerate a crippled version without lanyard attachment?

Don't forget lanyard attachment is required by bikelight which shall be one of the important markets S6330 is targeted at.


----------



## oKtosiTe

carl said:


> If it had some of the high-end features that other Zebralight/Spark lights already have, I could live with the generic looks.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, Does anyone know how to post the facebook pics here? thanks.



I wonder if hotlinking to Facebook is tolerated here. It could be argued that Facebook is an image-hosting site...
If it is, simply right-click the image (on the timeline, the full-size is too big for CPF) and "Copy image URL" (or similar). Then simply "Insert Image" here, and paste the URL.


----------



## mr.lumen

the s10 looks sick, the rest of the line... not so much. lol




raphaello said:


> It does appear to be a light without a "character", let say, but it is still way ahead (aesthetically) of THE most ugliest flashlights - Olight's ... and particularly the BATON series ... man those are some awful looking lights :sick2just my opinion).
> Anyways, if this flashlight performs as great as I've heard it would, I really don't care how it looks at all !
> 
> Really looking forward to this beast :devil:


----------



## CVLPA

juplin said:


> Shall we wait for a right version with lanyard hole or we just tolerate a crippled version without lanyard attachment?


This light or the new Fenix TK75 or maybe both will be my next light/s (after i receive the sc52). If S6330 gets good reviews i will not wait for a V2 with lanyard attachment that may or may not come. And since the SC600 is my favorite light now i can't see how they can fail when this light is like three SC600 stuck together for the price of two!


----------



## carl

double post


----------



## g.p.

CVLPA said:


> This light or the new Fenix TK75 or maybe both will be my next light/s (after i receive the sc52). If S6330 gets good reviews i will not wait for a V2 with lanyard attachment that may or may not come. And since the SC600 is my favorite light now i can't see how they can fail when this light is like three SC600 stuck together for the price of two!


Hadn't seen the TK 75 yet...now that is nice looking. If it has the low lows of the Zebralights I may have a tough decision between it and the SC6330!


----------



## hb-light

I just found out about this yesterday... but i've read the ENTIRE thread... it was like a rollercoaster ride... production has taken more than a year now... AND x-mas is coming up!!! and i want to give myself a present!! So most likely it will be ready for then??? Thats my guess. 

Hien - Proud owner of sc50+ (old school) and sc600 (just got this one and batteries haven't come in yet . )


----------



## Zenbaas

light zebra said:


> I just found out about this yesterday... but i've read the ENTIRE thread... it was like a rollercoaster ride... production has taken more than a year now... AND x-mas is coming up!!! and i want to give myself a present!! So most likely it will be ready for then??? Thats my guess.
> 
> Hien - Proud owner of sc50+ (old school) and sc600 (just got this one and batteries haven't come in yet . )



Don't hold your breath. ZL seems to have a philosophy of "it will be out when it's out". So sit back and relax and look at other offerings if you can't wait. I only check this thread every few weeks because I know how slow things go.  

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Scubie67

Zenbaas said:


> Don't hold your breath. ZL seems to have a philosophy of "it will be out when it's out". So sit back and relax and look at other offerings if you can't wait. I only check this thread every few weeks because I know how slow things go.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2



I have been waiting on the Q50 for 1 1/2 years now,HAHA. 

I hope Zebralight isn't put in charge of preventing any Asteroid Life Extinction Event Hits,If so We probably won't make it.


----------



## Li-Ion

www.zebralight.com/S6330-Triple-18650-Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight_p_104.html


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Did you notice that you can use 1, 2, or 3 18650's in this light....and it doesn't matter if each has a different charge level (one fully charged, one partially charged, & one empty.) I talked to someone at zebralight who explained this to me.....very cool. This offers a high degree of safety with this multi-cell light. I don't think there's any other flashlight out there that has this capability. Is there?


----------



## flame2000

Li-Ion said:


> www.zebralight.com/S6330-Triple-18650-Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight_p_104.html



........this one or the TK75?


----------



## Outdoorsman5

The website says this thing will run at 0.09 lumens for a year......that's cool and kind of funny.


----------



## g.p.

flame2000 said:


> ........this one or the TK75?



Yeah, that TK75 is one good looking light, but I love the UI and levels of the ZL. The diameter may also be easier to hold. ZL really should have gotten the 6330 out sooner, they are probably going to lose a lot of sales because of the TK75. Heck, they probably gave Fenix the idea for the TK75 since they released info so long ago.


Was hoping there would be an updated picture of it...hopefully of it in the standard ZL color. Anybody else notice that it comes with a rubber holder and headband! :laughing:


----------



## sbbsga

g.p. said:


> Was hoping there would be an updated picture of it...hopefully of it in the standard ZL color. Anybody else notice that it comes with a rubber holder and headband! :laughing:



I saw the holder and headband as well as the lanyard ring. 

Maybe the black colour helps with cooling?



Sent using Tapatalk HD.


----------



## flame2000

g.p. said:


> Yeah, that TK75 is one good looking light, but I love the UI and levels of the ZL. The diameter may also be easier to hold. ZL really should have gotten the 6330 out sooner, they are probably going to lose a lot of sales because of the TK75. Heck, they probably gave Fenix the idea for the TK75 since they released info so long ago.
> 
> 
> Was hoping there would be an updated picture of it...hopefully of it in the standard ZL color. Anybody else notice that it comes with a rubber holder and headband! :laughing:



Yup, the UI & levels on ZL win hands down! :bow:........and the spec sheet mentioned it can also run on just 1x18650! :thumbsup:
And both the ZL and TK75 are going for $199. No way I'm gonna strap a tin can to my head! :laughing:


----------



## dts71

Li-Ion said:


> www.zebralight.com/S6330-Triple-18650-Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight_p_104.html



Since this light is mainly for when you need plenty of light, I think it's a pity that so many of the levels are spent on the low end.
Sure it's nice to have your flavor of really low low but I'd rather have easy access to 2200, 1100 and 400 without reprogramming.

Suggestion
H1 2200 H2 1100 / Strobe (not that I'd use the strobe part, but it would be consistent with other lights)
M1 400 M2 260 / 75
L1 24 L2 5,7 / 1,9 /0,43 (Just an example - exact spacing is not a biggie since it is a searchlight rather than a "reading in the tent light" - I would bring one or 2 flashlight for low light situations anyway)


----------



## raphaello

I think a comparison of the TK75 and the S6330 is just out of the question for me. Just look at these numbers: 

Lenght: 185mm (TK75) vs *105mm *(S6330)
Weight: 510 grams (TK75) vs *283 grams *(S6330) 
And the sweetest thing of all: 4 batteries (TK75) vs 3 batteries (S6330) 

All I can say is ...  Zebralight is one hell of a company !


----------



## g.p.

raphaello said:


> I think a comparison of the TK75 and the S6330 is just out of the question for me. Just look at these numbers:
> 
> Lenght: 185mm (TK75) vs *105mm *(S6330)
> Weight: 510 grams (TK75) vs *283 grams *(S6330)
> And the sweetest thing of all: 4 batteries (TK75) vs 3 batteries (S6330)
> 
> All I can say is ...  Zebralight is one hell of a company !



And the big one for me...

6330 - 
Bezel: 57mm
Body: 44.4mm

TK75 - 
Bezel: 87.5mm
Body: 52.5mm

But damn that TK75 is so much better looking...and that throw! Guess I may have to get both. I'm lucky that work will pay for $500 in "tools" after Jan 1st! :nana:


----------



## 276

Those are some crazy runtimes on low


----------



## oKtosiTe

g.p. said:


> And the big one for me...
> 
> 6330 -
> Bezel: 57mm
> Body: 44.4mm
> 
> TK75 -
> Bezel: 87.5mm
> Body: 52.5mm
> 
> But damn that TK75 is so much better looking...and that throw! Guess I may have to get both. I'm lucky that work will pay for $500 in "tools" after Jan 1st! :nana:



TK75 looks much throwier to me. Not sure they're really competing in the same segment.


----------



## g.p.

oKtosiTe said:


> TK75 looks much throwier to me. Not sure they're really competing in the same segment.


It better be, otherwise that's a much bigger head for no reason.


----------



## sbbsga

oKtosiTe said:


> TK75 looks much throwier to me. Not sure they're really competing in the same segment.



Totally agree, they have very different context. Maybe they appear the same because of the similar retail price.


----------



## Bwolcott

g.p. said:


> It better be, otherwise that's a much bigger head for no reason.




yea Fenix is saying 90,000 lux with it


----------



## Zenbaas

TK75 looks mighty interesting. Would love to see the two compared side by side. If the TK75 had significantly more throw then I know which way I'm heading. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## a.lber.to

Finally! Has anyone else pre-ordered this? I am very curious to see what the actual run times on high will be compared to my TM-11...


----------



## Luminater

delete


----------



## Outdoorsman5

It looks like the Fenix TK75 is going to be a good bit more throwy than the Zebra S6330. I think the size difference alone puts these two lights in different catagories. The Zebra looks more like three SC600's put together. The three reflectors are smaller than the Fenix TK75 which also means the Zebra will be more floody. Still very bright though, and should throw well just through brute force. I like that the Zebra is smaller, more efficient, more output options, safer (each cell can have a different charge), & better UI. I like to see some lux numbers on it though.


----------



## pageyjim

I'm in. Not going to pre-order though. I will wait for a few reports back. I expect all to be positive though.


----------



## g.p.

Outdoorsman5 said:


> safer (each cell can have a different charge)...


I think the issue of safety with multi-cell 18650 lights is being blown out of proportion, especially with the TK75 and it's extension tubes (up to 12 18650s!). I'm into large scale electric RC airplanes and we've been using large multi-cell lipo packs for years now. In the past couple of years parallel charging has become common. You literally hook multiple packs together and charge them as one pack (for faster charging). Hooking together depleted packs at different states of discharge and having them instantly equalize at unlimited rates of discharge was a huge saftey debate in the beginning, but really has been a non-issue. *As long as the packs are anywhere close to the same general state-of-charge* they equalize almost instantly without getting hot or anything. The ZL 6330 will prevent issues with people using cells that aren't even close to the same state of charge, but that is just being careless...you need to keep track of cells that have been discharged already.

The other issue that I keep reading about on here is "matched cells". In RC we take multi cell packs and hook several of them together in both series and parallel, depending on the power system. Even when a cell goes bad, I have not heard of it causing a fire. The majority of in-flight fires are caused when an electronic component goes bad.

The big safety issue with lipos on the RC side of things is when charging. There are chargers that monitor and balance the individual cells. Since we always charge 18650s as individual cells on the flashlight side of things, the risk of something going wrong is low IMO. FYI, nicads and other battery chemeistries have fires too...


----------



## carl

High mode but no turbo mode like the SC600?

Maybe greater heat sink mass keeps things cooler than with SC600 so high mode on this model is like turbo mode on SC600 with no need to drop down power after 5 minutes.


----------



## carl

g.p. said:


> I think the issue of safety with multi-cell 18650 lights is being blown out



"Blown out"? Please, your choice of words....LOL!


----------



## hb-light

So the s6330 has beam profile of 80 degrees spill and 10 degrees hspot... tk75 has a 80 deg. spill... what about the hspot...?? wasn't able to find it


----------



## carl

So they added a lanyard feature to the light - was this because of all of our complaining back on page 8 and 9 of this thread? Or did they plan on having a lanyard all along?


----------



## xed888

Blown out of proportion is a normal english phrase.


----------



## Zenbaas

carl said:


> So they added a lanyard feature to the light - was this because of all of our complaining back on page 8 and 9 of this thread? Or did they plan on having a lanyard all along?



Where did you see this? 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Bwolcott

Zenbaas said:


> TK75 looks mighty interesting. Would love to see the two compared side by side. If the TK75 had significantly more throw then I know which way I'm heading.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2




It will just look at the two lights its pretty obvious the fenix tk75 will throw way better, likewise its obvious zebralight wasnt going for throw


----------



## xed888

Zenbaas said:


> Where did you see this?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


 its on their website under Features: Lanyard ring


----------



## Zenbaas

Bwolcott said:


> It will just look at the two lights its pretty obvious the fenix tk75 will throw way better, likewise its obvious zebralight wasnt going for throw



Hence the word significantly. How much I would classify as significant is of course a whole other story. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Bwolcott

Zenbaas said:


> Hence the word significantly. How much I would classify as significant is of course a whole other story.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2




well if the 6330 is floody like the tm11 then the tk75 should have about 4 times the lux, so pretty significant


----------



## biglights

Bwolcott said:


> well if the 6330 is floody like the tm11 then the tk75 should have about 4 times the lux, so pretty significant



Well said, I would think the 6330 would be lucky to get 25 to 30 lux. Cant wait for some actually specs.


----------



## carl

From the Zebralight web page: "Pre-order. Estimated Shipping date: December 20, 2012. The S6330 will come with Type III Class I (natural) anodizing." 

So they changed the body color from black HAIII to natural HAIII - was this because of all of our complaining back on page 8 and 9 of this thread too? Or did they plan on having natural HAIII all along? LOL!


----------



## Outdoorsman5

carl said:


> From the Zebralight web page: "Pre-order. Estimated Shipping date: December 20, 2012. The S6330 will come with Type III Class I (natural) anodizing."
> 
> So they changed the body color from black HAIII to natural HAIII - was this because of all of our complaining back on page 8 and 9 of this thread too? Or did they plan on having natural HAIII all along? LOL!



That's good news. You know, I admire zebralight. I've seen them make changes (pretty quick) after seeing our conversations on CPF threads which lead to some quick improvements to the SC51/H51/SC31/H31/SC600/H600 & others. I can't verify that these changes to the new S6330 (adding lanyard & changing the color) have come because of our chatter on this thread, but I bet that is what has happened. I think it's cool that they value our input, and believe that they are on to something. They are the experts at making lights, and we are the experts at using them. So, who better to turn to for input on what works & what doesn't.


----------



## g.p.

carl said:


> From the Zebralight web page: "Pre-order. Estimated Shipping date: December 20, 2012. The S6330 will come with Type III Class I (natural) anodizing."
> 
> So they changed the body color from black HAIII to natural HAIII - was this because of all of our complaining back on page 8 and 9 of this thread too? Or did they plan on having natural HAIII all along? LOL!


I emailed them and asked what color it was going to be, also mentioned that I didn't care for the black. They never replied, but maybe they got a bunch of those questions.

So is natural what the "normal" ZL color is? I assume it is, but you know how that goes!


----------



## tobrien

Outdoorsman5 said:


> That's good news. You know, I admire zebralight. I've seen them make changes (pretty quick) after seeing our conversations on CPF threads which lead to some quick improvements to the SC51/H51/SC31/H31/SC600/H600 & others. I can't verify that these changes to the new S6330 (adding lanyard & changing the color) have come because of our chatter on this thread, but I bet that is what has happened. I think it's cool that they value our input, and believe that they are on to something. They are the experts at making lights, and we are the experts at using them. So, who better to turn to for input on what works & what doesn't.


incredibly well stated


----------



## Primax

Is there any news when the S6330b is available? Currently i have the Jetbeam 3M XML 450lumen mounted on my bicycle. Works great with a wide beam to illuminate the complete road.
Should the current S6330 be usable on a bicycle? Or should better wait for the flood version.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Primax said:


> Is there any news when the S6330b is available? Currently i have the Jetbeam 3M XML 450lumen mounted on my bicycle. Works great with a wide beam to illuminate the complete road.
> Should the current S6330 be usable on a bicycle? Or should better wait for the flood version.



I bet either would work well, but I bet you'd want more throw than the floody version for bike use. You may want to wait for reviews on each of these after they're released to be certain, but waiting can be a pain.

By the way, :welcome:


----------



## carl

I expect the regular S6330 to be all flood - can't imagine needing even more flood on top of that.


----------



## tobrien

carl said:


> I expect the regular S6330 to be all flood - can't imagine needing even more flood on top of that.



that's a good point haha. i didn't even think about that


----------



## Philonous

If it's not black, then I am really glad. Seriously considering this light pending reviews.


----------



## ZebraLight

g.p. said:


> I think the issue of safety with multi-cell 18650 lights is being blown out of proportion, especially with the TK75 and it's extension tubes (up to 12 18650s!). I'm into large scale electric RC airplanes and we've been using large multi-cell lipo packs for years now. In the past couple of years parallel charging has become common. You literally hook multiple packs together and charge them as one pack (for faster charging). Hooking together depleted packs at different states of discharge and having them instantly equalize at unlimited rates of discharge was a huge saftey debate in the beginning, but really has been a non-issue. *As long as the packs are anywhere close to the same general state-of-charge* they equalize almost instantly without getting hot or anything. The ZL 6330 will prevent issues with people using cells that aren't even close to the same state of charge, but that is just being careless...you need to keep track of cells that have been discharged already.
> 
> The other issue that I keep reading about on here is "matched cells". In RC we take multi cell packs and hook several of them together in both series and parallel, depending on the power system. Even when a cell goes bad, I have not heard of it causing a fire. The majority of in-flight fires are caused when an electronic component goes bad.
> 
> The big safety issue with lipos on the RC side of things is when charging. There are chargers that monitor and balance the individual cells. Since we always charge 18650s as individual cells on the flashlight side of things, the risk of something going wrong is low IMO. FYI, nicads and other battery chemeistries have fires too...



Batteries in the TK75 or TMxx are connected in parallel, but they are not packs, because the connections between the batteries are *not spot welded*. A drop of the flashlight could potentially disconnect some of the connections and leaving only one battery there trying to power all three LEDs. What if the protection circuit of that last battery is not working properly at that critical moment (shock, current over 2C, and potentially sparks from sudden disconnection of other batteries)?


----------



## Primax

carl said:


> I expect the regular S6330 to be all flood - can't imagine needing even more flood on top of that.



I could not resist and already signed up with the preorder option.


----------



## g.p.

ZebraLight said:


> Batteries in the TK75 or TMxx are connected in parallel, but they are not packs, because the connections between the batteries are *not spot welded*. A drop of the flashlight could potentially disconnect some of the connections and leaving only one battery there trying to power all three LEDs. What if the protection circuit of that last battery is not working properly at that critical moment (shock, current over 2C, and potentially sparks from sudden disconnection of other batteries)?


That sounds like a poorly designed battery holder and a lot of "what ifs". On top of that, it takes a lot longer than a spilt second of high current discharge to cause a dangerous situation with a lipo. And lastly, what is a spark going to do with batteries that are sealed and aren't vented to the atmosphere? You would have to have a cell that is punctured for a spark to be a safety issue. If you dropped your flashlight hard enough to do that kind of damage you should be inspecting the cells for damage...if the flashlight even worked anymore. Sounds like a Mythbusters episode. 

Even if all of the "what ifs" lined up I doubt anything would even happen:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi5lGtm_ItQ 


I understand that you are marketing a product and safer is always better, but fear mongering is not helping the industry in any way. Like all batteries, 18650s need to be respected...not feared.


----------



## tonkem

Primax said:


> I could not resist and already signed up with the preorder option.



Be sure to let us know how you like it when you get it. Also, let us all know when you get a ship email.  I also look forward to this light.


----------



## Primax

No problem, When i get the flashlight i can compare it with some other Jetbeam models that i have.


----------



## WmArnold1

g.p. said:


> And the big one for me...
> 
> 6330 -
> Bezel: 57mm
> Body: 44.4mm
> 
> TK75 -
> Bezel: 87.5mm
> Body: 52.5mm
> 
> But damn that TK75 is so much better looking...and that throw! Guess I may have to get both. I'm lucky that work will pay for $500 in "tools" after Jan 1st! :nana:



I'm shopping for something with more throw too. _*But I'm not buying into bigger reflector-heads*_, I'm waiting for manufactures to realize that TIR optics can dial-in whatever throw you want to market without increasing the current bezel diameters from where they're at now; for throw.

Case-in-point; the SC600 benchmark is a 10-degree spot & 80-degree spill. If my math is correct; a TIR-optic for that exact same spec can have a diameter of 11mm and a height of 6.5mm ==> and that's slightly smaller than the SC600 reflector is. So; ZL could use three TIR's in their S6330 and dial-in whatever throw they want to market because TIR's get *smaller* when increasing their throw parameters.

Fwiw, my drawing-board optic budgets lumens a little better on paper too; Given that the SC600 reflects only 37% of its lumens into the 10-degree hot-spot and spills the remaining 63% into a 80-degree cone, note that my optic reflects 67% into the same spot and spills only 33% of its lumens. Awesome technology!

I wonder which manufacturer will be the first to produce tri-optics? Probably Surefire... :sigh:


----------



## twl

WmArnold1 said:


> I wonder which manufacturer will be the first to produce tri-optics? Probably Surefire... :sigh:



You mean Tri Optics like this?







or this?






It seems that several manufacturers already are using it.
But not for the XML, so far.


----------



## WmArnold1

twl said:


> You mean Tri Optics like these..
> 
> It seems that several manufacturers already are using it.
> 
> But not for the XML, so far.



Maybe I need to visit CPF more,  I've only seen TIR-optics on lights with a single emitter. What models are those?


----------



## twl

WmArnold1 said:


> Maybe I need to visit CPF more,  I've only seen TIR-optics on lights with a single emitter. What models are those?



The one in the picture with the cat is the Malkoff Wildcat, with triple XPG2 behind optics. 1350 Lumens at turn on.
The one in the picture with the watch and knife is an Oveready TorchLab Moddoolar Triple XPE behind optics. 1100 Lumens at turn on.


----------



## RedForest UK

You can buy triple XP-G and even triple XM-L optics at cutter and illumination-supply I think. The Elektrolumens 'big bruiser' line uses triple XM-L with optics too afaik.


----------



## WmArnold1

Thanks for responding Twl & RedForest UK! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't said Malkoff, Oveready, and Elektrolumens lights pretty-much dedicated throwers? Going from the S6330 to any of these would be like going from from flood-city to almost aspheric. ~grins~ I'm hoping my next flashlight will camp somewhere between these extremes.

Fwiw; TIR optics don't have to throw like an aspheric, they can also "spill" the center portion of the beam, as old-school reflectors do; just with more control.

Apparently, Inova, Surefire, and a few others have produced (for lack of a better term) tiered-TIR's, but there is just not many optics out there that produce the spot/spill/gradient beam-patterns we've used forever.

Btw, I also looked into cutter & illumination-supply and surmise that they distribute Carclo TIR optics. Subsequently, I could only find dedicated thrower-type optics within Carclo's Optic-Selector. So; no joy ~ yet...


----------



## Bwolcott

WmArnold1 said:


> Thanks for responding Twl & RedForest UK! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't said Malkoff, Oveready, and Elektrolumens lights pretty-much dedicated throwers? Going from the S6330 to any of these would be like going from from flood-city to almost aspheric. ~grins~ I'm hoping my next flashlight will camp somewhere between these extremes.
> 
> Fwiw; TIR optics don't have to throw like an aspheric, they can also "spill" the center portion of the beam, as old-school reflectors do; just with more control.
> 
> Apparently, Inova, Surefire, and a few others have produced (for lack of a better term) tiered-TIR's, but there is just not many optics out there that produce the spot/spill/gradient beam-patterns we've used forever.
> 
> Btw, I also looked into cutter & illumination-supply and surmise that they distribute Carclo TIR optics. Subsequently, I could only find dedicated thrower-type optics within Carclo's Optic-Selector. So; no joy ~ yet...





no there def not dedicated throwers the bruiser is mostly flood


----------



## twl

WmArnold1 said:


> Thanks for responding Twl & RedForest UK! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't said Malkoff, Oveready, and Elektrolumens lights pretty-much dedicated throwers? Going from the S6330 to any of these would be like going from from flood-city to almost aspheric. ~grins~ I'm hoping my next flashlight will camp somewhere between these extremes.
> 
> Fwiw; TIR optics don't have to throw like an aspheric, they can also "spill" the center portion of the beam, as old-school reflectors do; just with more control.
> 
> Apparently, Inova, Surefire, and a few others have produced (for lack of a better term) tiered-TIR's, but there is just not many optics out there that produce the spot/spill/gradient beam-patterns we've used forever.
> 
> Btw, I also looked into cutter & illumination-supply and surmise that they distribute Carclo TIR optics. Subsequently, I could only find dedicated thrower-type optics within Carclo's Optic-Selector. So; no joy ~ yet...



No, they wouldn't be classified as dedicated throwers, and in fact they'd be considered more as floody lights.
However, they would be less floody than the typical Zebralight beam, generally with about 12-15 degree beams with large generous spill.
What happens with these "narrow" optics is that 3 of them get put in one head and they cause a fairly wide beam shape with the 3 of them together, and it works as a medium controlled flood with copious spill.
A dedicated thrower is going to have a beam of less than 6 degrees, and generally even tighter than that, going all the way to the extreme of aspheric lenses with some of them.

If you do a search for beam shots of the Wildcat, you'll see it lights up quite a wide area, but still will throw around 150 yards too. Good general purpose lights.


----------



## carl

1) I have wondered about and wanted more use of optics too. But all of the beam patterns I've seen here with triple optics/LEDs have been 'room sweeper' flood beams. And they were using small-die LEDs which are suited to be made to throw. 

2) The Lupine Betty TL (the model which uses seven XMLs with optics) appears to have a beam which is quite floody. 

3) The optic itself introduces lumens losses. Loss of lumens going through the optic and then again through the glass lens in front of the optic. Every time an imperfectly transparent material is introduced in front of the beam, lumens are lost going through it.

4) Reflectors also have lumens losses especially if using an orange peel or sputtered surface texture but I believe (although i am not sure) that a high-quality smooth reflector loses less lumens than an optic. Most triple reflector designs so far seem to be very smooth except for the Zebralight S6330 which has a mild orange peel surface. In any case, maybe a smaller head with optics may not be worth the lumens losses to some designers.

5) Maybe a triple LED with triple small-medium sized aspheric optics bunched close together might work for what you want but I have never seen this done before even by a custom builder and the head may not be that much smaller than using reflectors. And who knows, maybe using aspherics may make the head longer - just can't win, right? So I think there may be some merit to keeping things simple using reflectors after all.


----------



## toysareforboys

Any news on the S6330b release date?!?! I'M FREAKIN OUT!

-Jamie M.


----------



## WmArnold1

Imho, it looks like most of the optic-lights just put frosting, ripples, or some kind of diffuser pattern on the face of a "narrow" TIR for spill, and that's the lossy/lousy way to do it. Again tho, imho.

Thanks for introducing the Lupine Betty TL here, Carl! It's the _*first *_multi-optic light I've seen with a clean beam pattern and a crystal-clear TIR. Especially note that the "bump" in the center of the led socket is not meant to collimate the near-vertical led emissions but rather to diverge them into a nice "spill" pattern. (i.e. the curvature is outward rather than inward) That's the right way to do it, and I'm not finding that done anywhere else; yet. ( Carclo; I hope you are reading this ;-)

Size-wise; the 'Betty houses seven (7!) XM-L U2's within a 54mm bezel (which is smaller than the S6330!) and gives us the choice of purchasing separate optics for either 16-degree, 22-degree, or a 26-degree beam. With reflectors (huge ones too) those options would not be possible.

Technology wise; this is the way I hope to go with my next light. But the 'Betty is a little steep for me; $869 at Amazon as I write this. 

So, I'm back to advocating that ZL, et, al, bring clear TIR technology within reach of us mere-mortals. Today's market is flooded with flooder's and I'm just trolling for a little more throw now. The challenge is, I don't want to totally loose my spill, only dial it down a few notches relative to the hot-spot. And, the S6330 can't do that for me without optics - Sorry - I'll get off my soap-box now.


----------



## juplin

Here is my SC600 TIR experiment for reference.
SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens





Beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens (camera parameters: F2.8/ 1/12 seconds / ISO 100)





Beamshot of SC600 with stock reflector (canera parameters: F2.8/ 1/10 seconds / ISO 100)





The beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR shall be similar to SC600 with smooth reflector of original dimensions. Hot spot of TIR version is slightly enhanced, but tint shift toward blue.
I don't think S6330 with triple TIR will have any advantage over existing reflectors.


----------



## moozooh

juplin said:


> Here is my SC600 TIR experiment for reference.



Any further info about this? Like changes in intensity or the overall amount of light?


----------



## juplin

moozooh said:


> Any further info about this? Like changes in intensity or the overall amount of light?


I don't have luxmeter to measure the intensity of the hot spot, which can be roughly estimated from the comparative beam shots.
The most effective way to increase the intensity of the hot spot of SC600 (or make SC600 more throw) is to increase the diameter of the reflector.
Changing reflector to TIR while keeping the diameter of the head unchanged will do little help to throw.


----------



## WmArnold1

juplin said:


> I don't have luxmeter to measure the intensity of the hot spot, which can be roughly estimated from the comparative beam shots.
> The most effective way to increase the intensity of the hot spot of SC600 (or make SC600 more throw) is to increase the diameter of the reflector.
> Changing reflector to TIR while keeping the diameter of the head unchanged will do little help to throw.



That's an _*awesome *_modification, Juplin!!! However, I'm compelled to disagree with your statement regarding diameter because one can pull a greater percentage of the lumens from the "spill" into your 10-degree hot-spot by carefully crafting the shape of the LED socket. (which is what I'm advocating here in general) If you're turning these out; I can share a profile.. :naughty:


----------



## juplin

WmArnold1 said:


> That's an _*awesome *_modification, Juplin!!! However, I'm compelled to disagree with your statement regarding diameter because one can pull a greater percentage of the lumens from the "spill" into your 10-degree hot-spot by carefully crafting the shape of the LED socket. (which is what I'm advocating here in general) If you're turning these out; I can share a profile.. :naughty:


The 10-degree TIR spec is given by the dealer who also provides 25 and 45 degree of frosted TIR with same 20 mm diameter.
See also the beam shot of Carclo's 12.4-degree TIR with 26.5mm diameter for XM-L.








http://www.carclo-optics.com/opticselect/intranet/optics/details/index.php?id_optics=58
The beam shot of Carclo's 12.4-degree TIR is similar to my 10-degree TIR.
BTW, it is the common sense that the throw of flashlight is majorly governed by the diameter of reflector or optics for the same emitter.


----------



## tonkem

WmArnold1 said:


> Imho, it looks like most of the optic-lights just put frosting, ripples, or some kind of diffuser pattern on the face of a "narrow" TIR for spill, and that's the lossy/lousy way to do it. Again tho, imho.
> 
> Thanks for introducing the Lupine Betty TL here, Carl! It's the _*first *_multi-optic light I've seen with a clean beam pattern and a crystal-clear TIR. Especially note that the "bump" in the center of the led socket is not meant to collimate the near-vertical led emissions but rather to diverge them into a nice "spill" pattern. (i.e. the curvature is outward rather than inward) That's the right way to do it, and I'm not finding that done anywhere else; yet. ( Carclo; I hope you are reading this ;-)
> 
> Size-wise; the 'Betty houses seven (7!) XM-L U2's within a 54mm bezel (which is smaller than the S6330!) and gives us the choice of purchasing separate optics for either 16-degree, 22-degree, or a 26-degree beam. With reflectors (huge ones too) those options would not be possible.
> 
> Technology wise; this is the way I hope to go with my next light. But the 'Betty is a little steep for me; $869 at Amazon as I write this.
> 
> So, I'm back to advocating that ZL, et, al, bring clear TIR technology within reach of us mere-mortals. Today's market is flooded with flooder's and I'm just trolling for a little more throw now. The challenge is, I don't want to totally loose my spill, only dial it down a few notches relative to the hot-spot. And, the S6330 can't do that for me without optics - Sorry - I'll get off my soap-box now.



You can always start with a Lupine Wilma TL, that has 4 Cree XPG emitters for 1100 lumens, vs the 2600 lumens of the betty. I have both the Betty TL-s and the Wilma TL, and there is a huge difference in output between the 2, obviously the Betty TL, in the 26 deg 2600 lumen model is MUCH brighter, but they both are not the best throwers. The 16 deg Wilma TL, that I have, seems to throw better than the Betty, but the Betty is so much brighter, that it is hard to be sure, since the large increase in brightness allows for extended reach, even if the 26 deg beam is not the best for throw. What I really like about the S6330 is the Long runtime on lows, something the Lupines cannot do, as the low for the Betty is 250 lumens, and the Wilma is 50 lumens, but is still really bright  Hope this helps. For some pics, check this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ght-decision&p=4066882&viewfull=1#post4066882

I have been considering purchasing a light with a bit more throw, and have been looking at the Surefire UB3t to fit that bill, but we shall see, as that is a much larger light that any I have now. having owned an M1X in the past, it seems it would be similar, just did not like the length of the Jetbeam M1X, but the saving grace for the surefire, is the lower modes, but I will likely wait a bit


----------



## tonkem

juplin said:


> Here is my SC600 TIR experiment for reference.
> SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens (camera parameters: F2.8/ 1/12 seconds / ISO 100)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beamshot of SC600 with stock reflector (canera parameters: F2.8/ 1/10 seconds / ISO 100)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR shall be similar to SC600 with smooth reflector of original dimensions. Hot spot of TIR version is slightly enhanced, but tint shift toward blue.
> I don't think S6330 with triple TIR will have any advantage over existing reflectors.



does the use of this optic on the SC600 greatly improve the throw and reduce sidespill, similar to the surefire implementation? Also, where would one purchase this? Which model specifically did you get, and I assume this is a drop in, on top of the old reflector, or do you need to remove it? thanks for the info.


----------



## WmArnold1

juplin said:


> ... BTW, it is the common sense that the throw of flashlight is majorly governed by the diameter of reflector or optics for the same emitter.



Although my common sense is debatable, I almost agree with that Juplin  Throw is primarily governed by spot-cone degrees and _secondarily _by the percentage of lumens that are captured by the reflecting surface. Old-school reflectors need _depth _to capture greater percentages, and TIR's can direct nearly 100% into the spot-cone, if desired. I don't want to digress, but having overly generous spill also compromises one's capability to process objects down at the 0.25 Lux standard for throw too.

Generally tho, Yes; bigger diameters throw more. Obviously for old-school reflectors and to a much, much, smaller degree for TIR's too.

So; if the S6330 is going to throw farther than three floody SC600's, its spot-cone needs to be smaller and/or it's spill needs to be reined-in a little. Personally, I'd be happy with just the latter myself: less flood ==> more throw, imho, the 10-degree spot-cone doesn't need to change. (i.e. the overall diameter and reflecting surface doesn't need to change; the TIR's LED socket shape is where opportunity lies)

Going back to Juplin's handsome beam-shots, the spot-cone diameters look similar (10-degrees) and, yes, the spills look excessively similar too. Subsequently, *this* TIR isn't significantly different than the factory reflector and I couldn't find any Carclo's that were either. _But_, that's not enough to disqualify TIR technology in general; please consider how well multiple TIR-optics work for the Lupine Betty TL mentioned by Carl & Tonkem above. They can dial-in whatever beam-pattern and throw they want!

The S6330 is slated to output 2400 Lumens which is in the same ballpark as the 'Betty's 2600, albeit without the fancy optics.. :devil:


----------



## juplin

tonkem said:


> does the use of this optic on the SC600 greatly improve the throw and reduce sidespill, similar to the surefire implementation? Also, where would one purchase this? Which model specifically did you get, and I assume this is a drop in, on top of the old reflector, or do you need to remove it? thanks for the info.


This 10-degree TIR lens with 20mm diameter and 13 mm height was bought from a local dealer in Taiwan. The stock reflector of SC600 must be removed and replaced with the TIR lens. However, the dimensions of this TIR lens are smaller than stock reflector in both diameter and height. To compensate for the size difference, the accessory O-ring for SC600 tailcap must be used to wrap around the TIR lens, in addition to the original O-ring in the head. Throw is slightly improved with this TIR in a silimar way that smooth reflector does.
The above linked 12.4-degree TIR lens with 26.5 mm diameter from Carclo shall be another alternative.


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## twl

WmArnold1 said:


> Although my common sense is debatable, I almost agree with that Juplin  Throw is primarily governed by spot-cone degrees and _secondarily _by the percentage of lumens that are captured by the reflecting surface. Old-school reflectors need _depth _to capture greater percentages, and TIR's can direct nearly 100% into the spot-cone, if desired. I don't want to digress, but having overly generous spill also compromises one's capability to process objects down at the 0.25 Lux standard for throw too.
> 
> Generally tho, Yes; bigger diameters throw more. Obviously for old-school reflectors and to a much, much, smaller degree for TIR's too.
> 
> So; if the S6330 is going to throw farther than three floody SC600's, its spot-cone needs to be smaller and/or it's spill needs to be reined-in a little. Personally, I'd be happy with just the latter myself: less flood ==> more throw, imho, the 10-degree spot-cone doesn't need to change. (i.e. the overall diameter and reflecting surface doesn't need to change; the TIR's LED socket shape is where opportunity lies)
> 
> Going back to Juplin's handsome beam-shots, the spot-cone diameters look similar (10-degrees) and, yes, the spills look excessively similar too. Subsequently, *this* TIR isn't significantly different than the factory reflector and I couldn't find any Carclo's that were either. _But_, that's not enough to disqualify TIR technology in general; please consider how well multiple TIR-optics work for the Lupine Betty TL mentioned by Carl & Tonkem above. They can dial-in whatever beam-pattern and throw they want!
> 
> The S6330 is slated to output 2400 Lumens which is in the same ballpark as the 'Betty's 2600, albeit without the fancy optics.. :devil:



I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Zebralight to do something like that.
Zebralight has made a career out of going floody and floodier to the nth degree.
They specialize in very wide flood.


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## tonkem

twl said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Zebralight to do something like that.
> Zebralight has made a career out of going floody and floodier to the nth degree.
> They specialize in very wide flood.



I remember reading that they are planning on releasing lights next year that lean toward more throw, but cannot recall where I saw that. Somewhere in these forums. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## juplin

WmArnold1 said:


> Although my common sense is debatable, I almost agree with that Juplin  Throw is primarily governed by spot-cone degrees and _secondarily _by the percentage of lumens that are captured by the reflecting surface. Old-school reflectors need _depth _to capture greater percentages, and TIR's can direct nearly 100% into the spot-cone, if desired. I don't want to digress, but having overly generous spill also compromises one's capability to process objects down at the 0.25 Lux standard for throw too.
> 
> Generally tho, Yes; bigger diameters throw more. Obviously for old-school reflectors and to a much, much, smaller degree for TIR's too.
> 
> So; if the S6330 is going to throw farther than three floody SC600's, its spot-cone needs to be smaller and/or it's spill needs to be reined-in a little. Personally, I'd be happy with just the latter myself: less flood ==> more throw, imho, the 10-degree spot-cone doesn't need to change. (i.e. the overall diameter and reflecting surface doesn't need to change; the TIR's LED socket shape is where opportunity lies)
> 
> Going back to Juplin's handsome beam-shots, the spot-cone diameters look similar (10-degrees) and, yes, the spills look excessively similar too. Subsequently, *this* TIR isn't significantly different than the factory reflector and I couldn't find any Carclo's that were either. _But_, that's not enough to disqualify TIR technology in general; please consider how well multiple TIR-optics work for the Lupine Betty TL mentioned by Carl & Tonkem above. They can dial-in whatever beam-pattern and throw they want!
> 
> The S6330 is slated to output 2400 Lumens which is in the same ballpark as the 'Betty's 2600, albeit without the fancy optics.. :devil:


Where can I find the whitewall beam shots of these Lupine's ?
I think a picture is better than thousand words.


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## tonkem

juplin said:


> Where can I find the whitewall beam shots of these Lupine's ?
> I think a picture is better than thousand words.



You can goto http://www.lupine2013.de/products/flashlights then click on the light you want to view, then look at "beamshots and runtimes". These are not "white wall" shots, but they are outdoor shots. You can also see the betty TL in this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?339453-Lupine-Betty-TL-S-Review-(7-x-XM-L-U2!)

I can take some shots, but it would be an iPhone 5 camera, not sure how good that would turn out. I have the Betty TL and Wilma TL. Let me know if you would like those shots.


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## WmArnold1

juplin said:


> Where can I find the whitewall beam shots of these Lupine's ?
> I think a picture is better than thousand words.



Indeed; Subwoofer posted a nice review of the Betty TL back on 6/09/12 here - enjoy.


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## WmArnold1

twl said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Zebralight to do something like that.
> Zebralight has made a career out of going floody and floodier to the nth degree.
> They specialize in very wide flood.



Yeah, I'm not sure how I got started on the optic topic here. Hopefully, ZL isn't the only manufacturer reading this..


----------



## juplin

WmArnold1 said:


> Indeed; Subwoofer posted a nice review of the Betty TL back on 6/09/12 here - enjoy.


Thanks! From the outdoor beams of the thread, I still think Lupine Betty TL is far from a throw-oriented flashlight.
Just for reference, I have additional outdoor beams of SC600 with 10-degree TIR.
SC600 with 10-degree TIR throwed to the window of 4th floor 30M away.






Outdoor beam of SC600 with 10-degree TIR, Turbo mode





Outdoor beam of Spark SL6-740NW, Turbo Mode




Both outdoor beams are in same exposure, and thus can be compared directly.
Spark SL6 is considered to be little thrower than original SC600, while SC600 with 10-degree TIR is little thrower than Spark SL6.
However, I also don't think SC600 with 10-degree TIR is a throw-oriented flashlight.


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## WmArnold1

juplin said:


> ... However, I also don't think SC600 with 10-degree TIR is a throw-oriented flashlight.



Technically, anything sporting a 10-degree spot-cone should throw well. Imho, we're either bleeding too many lumens into the spill and/or said copious spill is compromising our ability to realize how well said 10-degree spot-cone throws. No-matter-what-tho; please continue your awesome work on this, Juplin!

Again tho, imho; "throw" is a hard thing to quantify. Generally, I think the market is overly flooded with flood and lumens need to be shifted into the spot-cone. Given that there's two ways to do that, I predict that TIR technology will eventually prevail..


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## Optics_Man

Hi, I return back here after not posing for some years as I have returned as the Sales Director of Carclo Optics after being else ware for the past 2 years.

This is all very interesting but the big question is what is the largest optic you guys could use? and what beam are you looking for? the next point is as I have read the beam angle is very much a function of the die size and the dia. of the optic.


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## Optics_Man

Here is an optic that is 60mm dia with 3 different Cree LED's with different chip sizes but the same optic and you can see the changes in beam angle.
take a look on my dropbox as not able to drop a image in here

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/43eq2wg8r3xqy06/-ENItaxTsZ


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## WmArnold1

Optics_Man said:


> Hi, I return back here after not posing for some years as I have returned as the Sales Director of Carclo Optics after being else ware for the past 2 years.
> 
> This is all very interesting but the big question is what is the largest optic you guys could use? and what beam are you looking for? the next point is as I have read the beam angle is very much a function of the die size and the dia. of the optic.



Thanks for weighing-in here, Optics_Man! This particular thread is primarily discussing the S6330, which Zebralight will ship in the next month or so. Meantime, ZL has posted a tentative picture on facebook here.

It's commonly believed that the S6330 is essentially three SC600's fused together. Identical reflectors too; 10-degree spot & 80-degree spill. In fact, ZL even says that the S6330 will operate with one, two, or all three 18650 batteries; corresponding with 1, 2, or 3 of the LED's being operational.

Because the SC600 is famously floody, the S6330 is expected to be at least three times more so. Subsequently, several of the participants here have been discussing ways to limit the flooding as a way to increase the "throw" of the S6330 (and that is applicable for a lot of other lights in general too)

To answer your question; the SC600's bezel is 28mm and three of those diameters could fit separately into the S6330 effortlessly. I believe the height available is 13mm or so, but I have not measured that directly myself. 

To pose two questions of my own; given that both methods spec a 10-degree spot-cone and Juplin has carefully fitted a 20mm Carclo TIR optic within a SC600 body above; why would the TIR's "spill" be comperable to the 80-degree reflector's? Could a better LED socket profile clean the flooding up significantly for the XM-L die??

Eagerly awaiting the favor of your reply; WmArnold1, et, al.


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## juplin

WmArnold1 said:


> To pose two questions of my own; given that both methods spec a 10-degree spot-cone and Juplin has carefully fitted a 20mm Carclo TIR optic within a SC600 body above; why would the TIR's "spill" be comperable to the 80-degree reflector's? Could a better LED socket profile clean the flooding up significantly for the XM-L die??
> 
> Eagerly awaiting the favor of your reply; WmArnold1, et, al.


Add one word in case of some confusion.
I don't know the original supplier of the 10-degree TIR lens I used for SC600, since it was provided by a local dealer.
This 10-degree TIR lens has 20mm diameter and 13mm height.

Carclo has another 12.4-degree TIR lens that shall be possible to be used in SC600.
http://www.carclo-optics.com/opticselect/intranet/optics/details/index.php?id_optics=58
Spec are 26.5mm diameter and 13.90mm height, and have additional spec in the table:
Cree XM-L XLamp® White 85.9% 12.4 16.8 10048_Cree_XM-L_white_31-01-11.ies


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## CarpentryHero

TIR in an sc600 ? Yes please oo: that sounds awesome. I'd love to see a beamshot comparison


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## CarpentryHero

juplin said:


> Here is my SC600 TIR experiment for reference.
> SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR lens (camera parameters: F2.8/ 1/12 seconds / ISO 100)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beamshot of SC600 with stock reflector (canera parameters: F2.8/ 1/10 seconds / ISO 100)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The beamshot of SC600 modded to 10° TIR shall be similar to SC600 with smooth reflector of original dimensions. Hot spot of TIR version is slightly enhanced, but tint shift toward blue.
> I don't think S6330 with triple TIR will have any advantage over existing reflectors.




Thats pretty sweet, are the 10 and 12 degree optics the only ones in this size range? And do you need to pop out the reflector to use it?


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## juplin

CarpentryHero said:


> Thats pretty sweet, are the 10 and 12 degree optics the only ones in this size range? And do you need to pop out the reflector to use it?


TIR optics with other beam angles can also fit in the head of SC600, but optics with 10 or 12 degree will favor the enhancement of throw.
The original reflector of SC600 shall be replaced by the TIR optics.


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## NickBose

I am a big ZL fan (I have had 4 ZL), but while thinking about getting this or the Niteye 40, I come across this http://www.solarstorm.hk/productview.asp?id=21
I want a bit more lumen, a bit more throw, and I don't mind a larger lights and more cells (but no toilet plunger!). Should I wait for the Solarstorm L3 - I know the UI may not be as good but what about lumen and lux?


----------



## CarpentryHero

juplin said:


> TIR optics with other beam angles can also fit in the head of SC600, but optics with 10 or 12 degree will favor the enhancement of throw.
> The original reflector of SC600 shall be replaced by the TIR optics.




Thanks juplin, sounds like a great upgrade. Where can I get one?


----------



## carl

Anyone know:
1) About how much light is lost (not transmitted) through the optic, either by light reflected back toward the LED or light not directed in the forward direction out the front face of the optic?
2) Will the optic lose its clarity over time with use, especially as the plastic optic gets repeatedly heated by the LED?
3) How hot can the optic get? How much heat can it take?


----------



## carl

NickBose said:


> I am a big ZL fan (I have had 4 ZL), but while thinking about getting this or the Niteye 40, I come across this http://www.solarstorm.hk/productview.asp?id=21
> I want a bit more lumen, a bit more throw, and I don't mind a larger lights and more cells (but no toilet plunger!). Should I wait for the Solarstorm L3 - I know the UI may not be as good but what about lumen and lux?



That Solarstorm looks like an awesome light - 2 side-clicky buttons, 6 batteries, 7 LEDs. Price? Any reviews?


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## Bwolcott

As far as i know the solar storm isn't out yet


----------



## juplin

CarpentryHero said:


> Thanks juplin, sounds like a great upgrade. Where can I get one?


Mine is from a local dealer in Taiwan.
Carclo has an alternative optics which shall be more convenient to get.


----------



## xed888

NickBose said:


> I am a big ZL fan (I have had 4 ZL), but while thinking about getting this or the Niteye 40, I come across this http://www.solarstorm.hk/productview.asp?id=21
> I want a bit more lumen, a bit more throw, and I don't mind a larger lights and more cells (but no toilet plunger!). Should I wait for the Solarstorm L3 - I know the UI may not be as good but what about lumen and lux?



if you want a Niteye 40, look at the Black Shadow Terminator


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## NickBose

xed888 said:


> if you want a Niteye 40, look at the Black Shadow Terminator



Thks for the suggestion. There are so many interesting lights now (probably there always have been). For quite a while, ZL has always been unique with their efficiency (no competitors come near in their single AA output), UI, and for this - battery safety management (? First in the world "use any battery you like" in a multi cell light). Look at the Terminator's UI and modes - very poorly done and such a pity for a beautifully machined light. How hard it is for them to get the rest right? May be that's when their prices match up with zebralight and the likes. Having said that, things like the Terminator and L3 look so difficult to resist!


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## WmArnold1

carl said:


> Anyone know:
> 1) About how much light is lost (not transmitted) through the optic, either by light reflected back toward the LED or light not directed in the forward direction out the front face of the optic?
> 2) Will the optic lose its clarity over time with use, especially as the plastic optic gets repeatedly heated by the LED?
> 3) How hot can the optic get? How much heat can it take?



*Re: 1)* CPF member Ra was making a glass-based TIR back in 2010 here and said "...about a year ago, I came up with the first glass based TIR optic, with a efficiency of 92% and a diameter of _*30mm*_..." (8% loss) Btw, check-out Ra's beamshot!!!

Although, a more generic and generally available example might be Carclo's 26.5mm #10048 polycarbonate "plain tight TIR" which is spec'd at 85.9% overall efficiency. (14.1% loss, overall)

*Re: 2)* I've had a 125 lumen Inova T5 since 2005 and I believe it uses an acrylic TIR that doesn't appear to be yellow to me. Modern TIR makers use polycarbonates and copolymers now, and I couldn't Google anything notable regarding aging or degradation for those.

*Re: 3)* Acrylics are stable below 95 deg-C, Polycarbonates are stable below 125 deg-C, COC is stable below 200 deg-C, and optical glass is stable below 500 deg-C.

Keep in mind that the central-most 80-degrees of XM-L emissions are *not* reflected into the spot-cone from our SC600's; so, we're spilling/flooding _*63%*_ of our lumens! TIR technology is merely a means to better manage spot/spill ratio's for better "throw". Yes tho, OTF lumens might be a little lower, overall.


----------



## carl

WmArnold1 - thanks a bunch for all that info - very interesting! Wondering how he made those glass optics. Wow!
So a plastic optic with a 14% loss would decrease the 2400 lumen output to about 2060 lumen - not too bad.

I still wonder whether we get the best of all worlds using a deep triple reflector like the TM15 is the answer. This way, you get:

1) decent throw with medium-sized reflectors
2) overlapping of reflectors in the middle keeps head diameter smaller
3) and no losses from any optics. 

I could be wrong but I suspect any manufacturer who tries to use triple optics on triple XMLs will not get better throw than the TM15 - or the small gain in throw will not justify the increased complexity and costs. But that's a pessimistic view...

Or...we take the optimistic CPF-mod view and hope for an aftermarket kit which replaces the stock tri-reflector with a tri-optic by removing the front bezel ring/lens!


----------



## TEEJ

LOL - Why buy a light designed for flood, and make it a thrower, when there are equivalent throwers that would be more logical starting points?

Unless its just to DO it...which I do get.


----------



## WmArnold1

TEEJ said:


> LOL - Why buy a light designed for flood, and make it a thrower, when there are equivalent throwers that would be more logical starting points?
> 
> Unless its just to DO it...which I do get.



If I had the money, I'd have already bought the Lupine Betty TL. Because, it throws a great beam-pattern from a small size. No, it's not in the dedicated thrower league, but it strikes a nice balance between flood, throw, and size. *And most notably; it defines a market niche!* Further; there are three different models for either 16-deg, 22-deg, or 26-deg hot-spots. But I'm not rolling in dough, so, I'm trolling for someone to produce TIR technology at a price that I can justify..

And, if I wanted raw throw or luminary power without regard to *size*; I'd already have either the Olight SR92 Intimidator or the Olight M6 Marauder too - but I don't - Subsequently, I believe that this discussion is about making a marketable flood/throw/size trade-off between the extremes.

It's debatable why, but few manufactures are incorporating TIR optics for the flood/throw/size balance like the 'Betty. Indeed, I'm trolling here because CPF people like Mash.M, Ra, Juplin, and countless others have been crafting state-of-the-art devices years before they are seen in mass-production and I'm shamelessly hoping to influence manufactures too. I'll bet that the Chinese are reading this..


----------



## carl

TEEJ said:


> LOL - Why buy a light designed for flood, and make it a thrower, when there are equivalent throwers that would be more logical starting points?
> 
> Unless its just to DO it...which I do get.



You are right but I suspect some people want a medium rather than total flood beam from this very compact S6330. The Betty is nice but look at the price! - I'm not single anymore; I have a family to support if you know what I mean.

ONE or two (max) of us semi-regular CPF bloggers here actually owns one so that tells you how far into the stratospere that light's price is at. Is it the US tariffs for that import, or are we spoiled by Chinese prices, or do German products just seem pricey? Just blowin' steam here...


----------



## Patriot

> *Carl*
> So a plastic optic with a 14% loss would decrease the 2400 lumen output to about 2060 lumen - not too bad.



I don't think the difference is that dramatic if you're comparing reflector to TIR. That 14% loss is from emitter to projection or OTF loss. Similarly, there is loss from conventional reflectors as well as scant loss through the UCL. The amount of lumen loss is proportional to the amount that's being reflected by the reflector vs. what's exiting the UCL without being redirected by the reflector. It's plausible that a wider angle LED / dome, or deeper reflector is subject to more light loss since more light is being reflected. Even though LED's direct a large portion of their light "straight forward" as touted by many from that camp, it's evident by a reflectorless light (bare LED) like the ZL H502, just how much light is really being redirected. All of that redirected light is subject to a 10-20% depending on reflector quality, depth, shape, etc. It could be the case that both systems are relatively even given the best case scenario for each. 





TEEJ said:


> LOL - Why buy a light designed for flood, and make it a thrower, when there are equivalent throwers that would be more logical starting points?




Size! 

A gross generalization but we're after TM15 throw but with TM11 size. Always pushing the boundaries of what's possible, right!


----------



## TEEJ

I made an aspherical SC600 by simply placing a loupe infront of the lens...and it focused the LED projection perfectly.

If the three LED version is literally just like 3 SC600's...you could choose one optic option for each...and have one to maximize throw, one for the flood and one for mid range/fill, etc..or whatever combo floated the boat.


----------



## maxrep12

Juplin,

Does the o-ring at the bezel serve to be water tight?

Also, with the new sc600 MKll, there will be a 5.4mm length reduction. I wonder if the head of the sc600 will be changed in any manner. How much do the TIR optics for the sc600 cost? They would be fun to play with in the new 900 lumen MKll!


----------



## juplin

maxrep12 said:


> Juplin,
> 
> Does the o-ring at the bezel serve to be water tight?
> 
> Also, with the new sc600 MKll, there will be a 5.4mm length reduction. I wonder if the head of the sc600 will be changed in any manner. How much do the TIR optics for the sc600 cost? They would be fun to play with in the new 900 lumen MKll!


The o-ring at the bezel should be water tight, but I haven't tested it.
It cost me around US$1.00 for one piece of TIR optics for the sc600. The 5.4mm length reduction may be the overall length reduction.
The length of the head might be same as SC600, or even around 2mm length reduction in the head is still within the adjustment range while fit the TIR optics into the head.


----------



## davpet

Hi guys,

I've pre ordered the s6330 a few days ago. On their website, it says that estimated shipping time is dec. 20. Should I believe this, or is it more likely that my new toy will not arrive this year?


----------



## carl

davpet said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've pre ordered the s6330 a few days ago. On their website, it says that estimated shipping time is dec. 20. Should I believe this, or is it more likely that my new toy will not arrive this year?



I'm guessing its going to be early to mid-January but better late than released hastily with problems and recalls and such. A good reputation is worth retaining at the cost of being late.

BTW, when you get yours, please post your impressions and pics if you can. Much appreciated!


----------



## magnum70383

I'm just waiting for this to come out before busting $200 for either this or the tk75!


----------



## tonkem

magnum70383 said:


> I'm just waiting for this to come out before busting $200 for either this or the tk75!



TK75 will throw better, from what I can tell, but it depends on what you want in a light  We should know this week, if the preorder is correct, but being that I still don't see any updated photos on the website, this week would be optimistic.


----------



## magnum70383

tonkem said:


> TK75 will throw better, from what I can tell, but it depends on what you want in a light  We should know this week, if the preorder is correct, but being that I still don't see any updated photos on the website, this week would be optimistic.


I can't wait!!! I have the batteries and charger waiting already! My fiance and friends think I'm crazy..... sigh


----------



## tonkem

magnum70383 said:


> I can't wait!!! I have the batteries and charger waiting already! My fiance and friends think I'm crazy..... sigh



Join the club


----------



## magnum70383

Just watch.. ONE day.. ONE day power's gonna be out for a week. And they'll be begging me for a flashlight. While I'll have light for 6 months lol


----------



## AVService

magnum70383 said:


> I can't wait!!! I have the batteries and charger waiting already! My fiance and friends think I'm crazy..... sigh



You say this like Crazy is a bad thing?


----------



## davpet

magnum70383 said:


> Just watch.. ONE day.. ONE day power's gonna be out for a week. And they'll be begging me for a flashlight. While I'll have light for 6 months lol



I guess I have to recharge my TM15, before power goes out..  And before my S6330 arrives. Ohh, can't wait.  However I am really worried. If estimated shipping date is December 20, how come they don't even have a picture? Or does this mean, that the FIRST will be ready by then? An other interesting thing: usually when I order something online, my card only gets charged when the product is shipped out. Not in this case.. they took my money in the blink of an eye.


----------



## levelflight

The pictures will be up by December 20th, I bet that's what they really mean.


----------



## jfl

levelflight said:


> The pictures will be up by December 20th, I bet that's what they really mean.



I was told by Zebralight that they are trying to ship the S6330 by the 20th, but there may be a "possible delay" and that I won't have the light before Christmas. :mecry:


----------



## levelflight

They've got a lot of pluck really, to ask for payment before you have even seen a picture of the finished product.


----------



## maxrep12

levelflight said:


> They've got a lot of pluck really, to ask for payment before you have even seen a picture of the finished product.


To be fair, there have been a few pictures out, both in black and natural anodizing. Zebra will pull through. 

Would you rather pre order from HDS or Surefire?

Additionally, the s6330 will sell out, but jfl will get his light before that happens.


----------



## levelflight

If not for the tangible passion of us light addicts they would likely need to market in a more traditional (proven) manner.
All I am saying is that if the light is going to be ready to ship within the next ten days then where are the pictures, as I'm certain they exist. A bit more than an oversight if you ask me.

I like what the manufacturers are doing insofar as it caters to enhancing our addiction, but I'm not so sure it's a healthy precedent. For one thing it sets them up for a fall if basic expectations aren't met....... Zap! Trust gone.
Sure, I may just be blowing smoke......that said, ZL hasn't caught my interest with this tactic even though I am a committed ZL user along with a number of my colleagues, and we are presently in a buying cycle.

I hope it goes well and everyone is happy with what they get!


----------



## magnum70383

well... 2 more days and ill know which one to buy. tk75... s6330.... christmas present


----------



## Yourfun2

Supposed to ship today. What is it they say, No Pics, ???


----------



## TMCGLASSON36

I emailed ZL and they said it will be after Xmas before shipping. No dates set.


----------



## carl

TMCGLASSON36 said:


> I emailed ZL and they said it will be after Xmas before shipping. No dates set.



Late, but it will undoubtedly result in a better product (and who knows, maybe our complaining about the color and no lanyard had a direct hand in the delay). In any case, still looking forward to this light for sure. Its way smaller and less bulky then the TK75 or any other triple XML.


----------



## magnum70383

AVService said:


> You say this like Crazy is a bad thing?



Yes... They say I'm crazy in a bad way....... lol 



carl said:


> Late, but it will undoubtedly result in a better product (and who knows, maybe our complaining about the color and no lanyard had a direct hand in the delay). In any case, still looking forward to this light for sure. Its way smaller and less bulky then the TK75 or any other triple XML.



But from early pix, it looks very ugly! I'm just hoping it's better. That's why I still haven't pulled the trigger either of them


----------



## carl

magnum70383 said:


> But from early pix, it looks very ugly! I'm just hoping it's better. That's why I still haven't pulled the trigger either of them



Yes, true. Although looks is very subjective, I think the consensus here on CPF has been established that it is subjectively ugly. Wish it looked more like a Zebralight than a generic brand.


----------



## Li-Ion

Here are pictures! http://zebralight.com/S6330-Triple-18650-Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight_p_104.html


----------



## xed888

SO they really did listen to the forum. I see olive HA3 and lanyard ring


----------



## stp

I think that for this light ZL should change the interface a little. In my opinion the high from off should be always 400 lm from which you can switch to H1 or H2 with doubleclicks the same way as it is now. So for example if you have H2 set as 1100 and the last used high mode was H1 it should work like that:

Off -> (short click) ->* 400lm* -> (double click) -> H1 2400lm -> (double click) -> H2 1100lm -> (double click) -> H1 2400lm -> (double click) -> H2 1100lm...and so on.

It happens to people that they will power it on high instead of low by mistake or lack of practice. Getting 2400lm instead of 5lm will hurt.


----------



## twl

What I immediately notice is that there are 3 separate very small reflectors.
In most all these types of lights, even with much bigger head size, the 3 reflectors are sort of connected together in an "over-lapping" way, and are much much bigger.
In this smaller light, where I would expect them to use every possible bit of area for reflectors, they have little tiny ones which leaves a large flat area in the front going unused.
I'd expect a very very wide floody spill with this light.

Anyone have an opinion on that?


----------



## xed888

twl said:


> What I immediately notice is that there are 3 separate very small reflectors.
> In most all these types of lights, even with much bigger head size, the 3 reflectors are sort of connected together in an "over-lapping" way, and are much much bigger.
> In this smaller light, where I would expect them to use every possible bit of area for reflectors, they have little tiny ones which leaves a large flat area in the front going unused.
> I'd expect a very very wide floody spill with this light.
> 
> Anyone have an opinion on that?



That is what ZL is going with.


----------



## juplin

New pictures are shown in Zebralight.
http://www.zebralight.com/S6330-Triple-18650-Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight_p_104.html

Traditional unibody aluminum casing is gone.


----------



## Samy

Looks really good! I find it interesting that at 400 lumens the Zebra gets 11 hours with 3 batteries vs the TK75's 400 lumens which gets 12 hours but needs 4 batteries to do it. The zebra is very efficient! The zebra would be a great blackout/power failure tailstander!

cheers


----------



## Matjazz

We can't judge deficiency until we know which batteries were used in both cases.


----------



## moozooh

The last photo is very surprising. It seems that weight limitations (?) have forced ZL to adopt the traditional head-biased thread placement rather than their usual "unibody" + tailcap. Maybe they thought it would make sense with the advanced thermal regulation in place. I'm not a fan of the change, but I guess there were solid reasons for it.

That being said, I like the look of the battery holder frame—I find it unexpectedly graceful.


----------



## sbbsga

That o-ring looks like it's bombproof. Amazing!

I wonder if the cells are touching the inner bore of the body.


Sent using Tapatalk HD.


----------



## AVService

I was told that they are using a PID feedback circuit for the output thermal control regulation and that there are 256 steps to the output available to the PID circuit.
Evidently this will allow the light to throttle back output in such small increments that it will continue to run while adapting to the available voltage and heat without our being able to really perceive these changes.

I don't know how different this is than other lights but it sounds complicated to me?

This is also part of the reason the 1,2 or 3 battery option will work in there as the light will make sure the output stays uniform.

Again what I think I was told or at least how I heard it or remember it?


----------



## juplin

moozooh said:


> The last photo is very surprising. It seems that weight limitations (?) have forced ZL to adopt the traditional head-biased thread placement rather than their usual "unibody" + tailcap. Maybe they thought it would make sense with the advanced thermal regulation in place. I'm not a fan of the change, but I guess there were solid reasons for it.
> 
> That being said, I like the look of the battery holder frame—I find it unexpectedly graceful.


I think removable cylindrical battery holder can not provide 3 independent positive terminals required by battery powering system of S6330. This might force Zebralight to give up their famous unibody aluminum casing.


----------



## moozooh

AVService said:


> I was told that they are using a PID feedback circuit for the output thermal control regulation and that there are 256 steps to the output available to the PID circuit.
> Evidently this will allow the light to throttle back output in such small increments that it will continue to run while adapting to the available voltage and heat without our being able to really perceive these changes.
> 
> I don't know how different this is than other lights but it sounds complicated to me?
> 
> This is also part of the reason the 1,2 or 3 battery option will work in there as the light will make sure the output stays uniform.
> 
> Again what I think I was told or at least how I heard it or remember it?


Refer to the post #12 in this very thread.

Most lights do one of the following:
a) use a dumb stepdown timer that can be reset by turning the light off and back on (think SC600 and SC52), 
b) step down to the next available level—usually staying there—upon reaching a certain thermal state,
c) do nothing and, depending on the output, risk permanent damage to itself or the owner.

This light uses the "b" approach with a twist: it will attempt to maintain its output and, if need be, vary it in very small steps to make sure you never experience a significant drop-off in brightness as long as batteries can keep up. I'm wondering, though, whether that'll also mean gradual rampdown on low battery as opposed to the usual stepping down.



juplin said:


> I think removable cylindrical battery holder can not provide 3 independent positive terminals required by battery powering system of S6330. This might force Zebralight to give up their famous unibody aluminum casing.


I was rather thinking of a triple battery tube that needs no holders, but that would mean thick tube walls (+weight) or some fancy protruding limiters (+complexity, –reliability).


----------



## Yourfun2

Looks like it is going to be a super flood light. Wont be any throw if that is what the reflector really looks like. I like the looks of the TM11 much better than what I see here. Though I do like the recessed button.


----------



## AVService

moozooh said:


> Refer to the post #12 in this very thread.
> 
> Most lights do one of the following:
> a) use a dumb stepdown timer that can be reset by turning the light off and back on (think SC600 and SC52),
> b) step down to the next available level—usually staying there—upon reaching a certain thermal state,
> c) do nothing and, depending on the output, risk permanent damage to itself or the owner.
> 
> This light uses the "b" approach with a twist: it will attempt to maintain its output and, if need be, vary it in very small steps to make sure you never experience a significant drop-off in brightness as long as batteries can keep up. I'm wondering, though, whether that'll also mean gradual rampdown on low battery as opposed to the usual stepping down.
> 
> I am aware of this but was told that this light will use a much more sophisticated technology to control output than any light before it?
> When I looked into the PID control circuits they do seem unusually robust for something like a light to me.
> 
> On the other hand what do I know about it,I am no designer or engineer to say the least.


----------



## BirdofPrey

Yourfun2 said:


> Looks like it is going to be a super flood light. Wont be any throw if that is what the reflector really looks like. I like the looks of the TM11 much better than what I see here. Though I do like the recessed button.



Should throw similar to the SC600 but more so since there are more lumens to play with. 

Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt via Tapatalk 2.


----------



## juplin

moozooh said:


> I was rather thinking of a triple battery tube that needs no holders, but that would mean thick tube walls (+weight) or some fancy protruding limiters (+complexity, –reliability).


The structure of the triple battery tube looks like this:









During assembly, the circuit board must be pushed forward from the tail of the tube and be glued on the head under the structure of Zebralight's unibody casing. This can't be done for the triple battery tube, since the diameter of the circuit board is larger than the inner diameter of the triple battery tube.
Alternatively, they may design a circuit board that matches the contour of the triple battery tube to replace the round circuit board, if the structure of unibody casing is maintained. However, this circuit board has bizarre shape and less space for electronic components, which will lead to questionable feasibility.

These pictures shown above are taken from:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...wer-Review-RUNTIMES-VIDEO-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!


----------



## Yourfun2

This light is 200 grams lighter than the 7G9. So wont be near as beefy as those pics.


----------



## CVLPA

Ah, the pictures are up! I'm very tempted to order it right now! Or the Fenix TK75. Still can't decide until i've seen some reviews.


----------



## carl

Still no change to the shipping date.


----------



## ToyTank

I can't wait for beamshots of this, 10 degree spot is pretty tight for a triple.

Then someone to do a RGB mod- I know i'm dreaming.

$200 is a bit steep for me to impulse buy. At least right now.


----------



## tobrien

BirdofPrey said:


> Should throw similar to the SC600 but more so since there are more lumens to play with.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt via Tapatalk 2.



agreed:

"Orange peel textured reflector, with exactly the same profile as the SC600 reflector" 

(from the product page)


----------



## GordoJones88

I'm really disappointed there is no pocket clip. Booo!






Kidding.


----------



## carl

GordoJones88 said:


> I'm really disappointed there is no pocket clip. Booo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kidding.



Thanks for posting the pic - tired of going back and forth between this thread and the link.


----------



## carl

ToyTank said:


> $200 is a bit steep for me to impulse buy. At least right now.



Just for kicks, what constitutes an impulse buy vs non-impulse? buying immediately vs waiting a few minutes?


----------



## Beckler

CVLPA said:


> Ah, the pictures are up! I'm very tempted to order it right now! Or the Fenix TK75. Still can't decide until i've seen some reviews.



6330 has much more versatility of brightness levels; that's a big plus. But double clicking doesn't really make any sense to me. More innovation is required here.


----------



## TMCGLASSON36

carl said:


> Just for kicks, what constitutes an impulse buy vs non-impulse? buying immediately vs waiting a few minutes?



That is what it is for me. I'm going to preorder this but it will be a WANT not a need. 2400 lumens is cool to light up the neighbors yard but I will not have a practical use for it. But being on this Forum throws being practical out the window. LOL


----------



## TEEJ

carl said:


> Just for kicks, what constitutes an impulse buy vs non-impulse? buying immediately vs waiting a few minutes?



No hard and fast rules for sure...but essentially, I think the "impulse buy" is analogous to grabbing something in the check out line of the supermarket on your way out...you didn't think about comparing it to alternatives, waiting to see if the price dropped, etc...you just saw it, and bought it.



The "NON- Impulse Buy" I guess would be any OTHER pathway...where you DO consider other alternatives, whether the price might drop, etc, and weigh alternatives instead of just grabbing it.


----------



## ToyTank

carl said:


> Just for kicks, what constitutes an impulse buy vs non-impulse? buying immediately vs waiting a few minutes?



Buying immediately sight unseen just because it's "cool" and I like Zebralight is what I'd call an impulse buy.

Non-impulse would be if I had a clear need or use for this light immediately, or after I've seen and used one and decided it's worth $200 to me.



GordoJones88 said:


> I'm really disappointed there is no pocket clip. Booo!
> 
> Kidding.



I did see merchants list it as includeing a headband and silicone holder


----------



## tobrien

ToyTank said:


> I did see merchants list it as includeing a headband and silicone holder


if they actually did make a headband for the s6330 (I know you're joking about the merchants just copying and pasting _other_ ZL product stuff over to this new S6330) they should call it a "neck killer" instead lol


----------



## StandardBattery

They should hurry because Nitecore is following the Zebra Roadmap and they already have the EA4 and the TM15. While the TM15 is in a different price bracket, it is being offered at such large discounts right now that it competes on price and output with the S6330. Although they are quite different packages, probably many will only by one light in this output range given their cost. I don't think we'll see anymore roadmaps/roadmap-updates from Zebralight, they can't fly under the radar of the more well known brands now.


----------



## peterharvey73

Does anyone know if Selfbuilt is presently testing the all new Zebralight S6330 2400 lumen flashlight???
I am curious about the three small reflectors, which don't seem to "overlap" to maximize the diameter of each reflector; I wonder how it will affect the beam?


----------



## jhc37013

I'm glad it has a lanyard attachment now instead of a re-release or version 2 like was done with the SC600, I don't want to drop a $200 light while just taking a walk.


----------



## applevision

I was convinced that I absolutely did not need this light... But after seeing these photographs, my heart is beginning to melt… And thinking about this insane output makes my mouth water. I just am so spoiled using AA Eneloops lately in the Sunwayman M40A and the Nitecore EA4 which are such great lights, that using 18650s seems like a step backwards... But there is SO much power here, at such a small size... And I do love Zebralights... I think I'm going to cave...help! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TEEJ

applevision said:


> I was convinced that I absolutely did not need this light... But after seeing these photographs, my heart is beginning to melt… And thinking about this insane output makes my mouth water. I just am so spoiled using AA Eneloops lately in the Sunwayman M40A and the Nitecore EA4 which are such great lights, that using 18650s seems like a step backwards... But there is SO much power here, at such a small size... And I do love Zebralights... I think I'm going to cave...help!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



18650's pack MORE power into the same sized light, or, allow the same performance in a smaller form factor...as compared to nimh powered alternatives, etc....so 18650's are a step FORWARD, and definitely NOT back.



So, assuming you fear going forward, and want a larger heavier light with less performance...hopefully, this will help you to not buy the Zebralight.


----------



## applevision

TEEJ said:


> 18650's pack MORE power into the same sized light, or, allow the same performance in a smaller form factor...as compared to nimh powered alternatives, etc....so 18650's are a step FORWARD, and definitely NOT back.
> 
> 
> 
> So, assuming you fear going forward, and want a larger heavier light with less performance...hopefully, this will help you to not buy the Zebralight.



Right... it's like asking alcoholics to help me turn down a drink!

Agreed on all accounts, it's just that I love my Eneloops so much, as they are:
-super safe (no worries about 'sploding batts!)
-super common (I have a bunch of them upstairs and downstairs and always have some freshly charged, and I can charge them 4 at a time vs. 1 at a time for 18650s)
-allow for AA alkies to be used in a pinch for lights that use them (an unnecessary redundancy, perhaps, but one I like)

So from a mechanics standpoint, it feels like a step backwards: 
-Specialized batts of which I only have a few
-More difficulty charging and remembering to re-charge without easy backups
-No ability to use alkalines in a pinch

BUT... the trade off is a light that has more power than practically anything on the market regardless of size... and that is as nearly as small as a pocket light, to boot, making the power:size ratio off the charts...

Thanks, TEEJ... I'm doomed on this one now...


----------



## TEEJ

I'm sure it was like the people who rode safe, dependable horse drawn buggies looking at those infernal combustion powered horseless carriages, and all that explosive fuel that they required.




Once you get used to the idea of rechargeables though, its really quite simple. You take cells out of the light, and put the ones from the charger in...and put the cells from the light into the charger.

Next time, do the same thing, rinse, repeat.



Its just not that complicated.



PS - Get a charger that does more cells than you have...because you WILL have more cells than you have now...as you will fall in love with the added power and runtime, etc...and get MORE lithium ion powered lights.

:welcome:


----------



## justanotherguy

TEEJ said:


> I'm sure it was like the people who rode safe, dependable horse drawn buggies looking at those infernal combustion powered horseless carriages, and all that explosive fuel that they required.
> 
> Once you get used to the idea of rechargeables though, its really quite simple. You take cells out of the light, and put the ones from the charger in...and put the cells from the light into the charger.
> Next time, do the same thing, rinse, repeat.
> 
> Its just not that complicated.
> PS - Get a charger that does more cells than you have...because you WILL have more cells than you have now...as you will fall in love with the added power and runtime, etc...and get MORE lithium ion powered lights.
> 
> :welcome:



+1 !!! 
I love the 18650's for their size and runtime!


----------



## oKtosiTe

peterharvey73 said:


> Does anyone know if Selfbuilt is presently testing the all new Zebralight S6330 2400 lumen flashlight???
> I am curious about the three small reflectors, which don't seem to "overlap" to maximize the diameter of each reflector; I wonder how it will affect the beam?


I was pretty skeptical about this light, until I saw this picture. The arrangement of this battery carrier (presumably one with the head) looks quite smart, and based on what I've read about this light so far (independent LED+battery circuits) it may well mean being able to swap batteries without ever having to turn the light off entirely. Well done, ZebraLight!


----------



## carl

One thing about the battery carrier -most people put a lot of lateral pressure when pushing batteries into the carrier - I hope the carrier is solidly attached to the head.


----------



## shane45_1911

carl said:


> One thing about the battery carrier -most people put a lot of lateral pressure when pushing batteries into the carrier - I hope the carrier is solidly attached to the head.


I would expect the carrier is not attached to the head, unless I've missed something in this thread.


----------



## tonkem

shane45_1911 said:


> I would expect the carrier is not attached to the head, unless I've missed something in this thread.



I would hope that it is not attached to the head.


----------



## CarpentryHero

CVLPA said:


> Ah, the pictures are up! I'm very tempted to order it right now! Or the Fenix TK75. Still can't decide until i've seen some reviews.



Just to be clear, the TK75 is a near 80k lux thrower, where as the S6330 is going to be more floody maybe 30k lux. So very different from each other


----------



## magnum70383

applevision said:


> Right... it's like asking alcoholics to help me turn down a drink!
> 
> -super common (I have a bunch of them upstairs and downstairs and always have some freshly charged, and I can charge them 4 at a time vs. 1 at a time for 18650s)
> ...



Get the jetbeam i4 charger. Charges 4x18650 at the same time


----------



## TEEJ

I like the Xtar WP6 II that HJK reviewed, as it does SIX 18650's at a time, with CCV, etc.

It can also do my 14500's, 10440's, RCR123's, etc....which is handy.


That way I can recharge cells for 18650 lights along side those for other lights, very handy. It comes with adapters for the shorter cells.


----------



## moozooh

CarpentryHero said:


> the S6330 is going to be more floody maybe 30k lux.



That's an overly generous estimate. SC600 with XM-L U2 wouldn't even reach 6k lux by itself, so with S6330 you're looking at maybe 10k lux in the overlap area. Still, that would throw the beam some 100–120 meters, which for most applications is plenty enough.


----------



## CarpentryHero

Yeah, I was being generous with the zebralight numbers, I don't buy zebralights for throw


----------



## xed888

tonkem said:


> I would hope that it is not attached to the head.



By the looks of it, I reckon it is attached though.


----------



## applevision

magnum70383 said:


> Get the jetbeam i4 charger. Charges 4x18650 at the same time





TEEJ said:


> I like the Xtar WP6 II that HJK reviewed, as it does SIX 18650's at a time, with CCV, etc.
> 
> It can also do my 14500's, 10440's, RCR123's, etc....which is handy.
> 
> 
> That way I can recharge cells for 18650 lights along side those for other lights, very handy. It comes with adapters for the shorter cells.



Thank you both!


----------



## AVService

Well I got a Newsletter from ZL overnight and now they are saying Jan. 7th and the same pics as have been posted here already were included in the letter!

Maybe we really are close?


----------



## brightasday

The newsletter from ZL did confirm the battery carrier is permanently attached to the head.


----------



## tonkem

Looks like they posted same information on their website:

[h=3]Pre-order. Estimated Shipping date: Jan 7, 2013.[/h]


----------



## justanotherguy

kinda getting interested...I want something majorly floody... I am whetting my appetite with a Firesword V, even though I dont like single modes...


----------



## Scott Packard

> Length: 4.14 inch

My SC600 is 4.23 inches. This S6330 is a very short light, much shorter than my other (3) 18650 lights.


----------



## Gemlab

Ok I had to preorder one.
I got my sc52 and ordered early ,great light.
Sc600 is also a fav.


----------



## verysimple

How would this light compare to Nitecore TM15?

S6330 is $100 cheaper, uses 1 less battery and specs are very close... Win?


----------



## jd_oc

Yeah, I would call it a win. The ZL has better electronics and is significantly smaller as well. I couldn't resist and purchased this light last night (my first flashlight purchase in 14 months!). 7 month runtime at 0.4lumens! That is awesome.



verysimple said:


> How would this light compare to Nitecore TM15?
> 
> S6330 is $100 cheaper, uses 1 less battery and specs are very close... Win?


----------



## tobrien

just noticed ZL cleared out most everything on their GDocs spreadsheet (product comparison) to discontinued.


----------



## LEDburn

Beckler said:


> 6330 has much more versatility of brightness levels; that's a big plus. But double clicking doesn't really make any sense to me. More innovation is required here.



You click the button twice, the light changes between one of two levels, what don't you get?

Do you find that too complex compared to something you have two buttons for, or something with a reverse clicky? 
Pretty sure if you ask any zebralight user (are you one?) they will tell you the UI is amazing and doesn't need any real improvements. 
Perhaps keeping it simple with a single mode forward clicky is best for you. But then it'd need more innovation in the forms of more modes etc.


----------



## TEEJ

Scott Packard said:


> > Length: 4.14 inch
> 
> My SC600 is 4.23 inches. This S6330 is a very short light, much shorter than my other (3) 18650 lights.



LOL

Until you posted that, I never realized it was SHORTER than the SC600.


----------



## Johnno

Thought I could hold out until some reviews popped up, but just couldn't resist any longer. Just pre-ordered a S6330. No regrets though - once the reviews start popping up, they'll most likely be back-ordered for a while... (Had to decide between the S6330 and the new SC52... and the big one won out.) Love the modes and the battery module. Odds are I'll end up getting a SC52 and the new SC600 Mk II next year as well. (Have a SC600 and it is my all time favorite light, followed closely by the SC51.) Sigh... Just wish their lights weren't so damn good! My wallet keeps emptying out - going to be beans and rice for a while, eaten in the glow from a Zebralight.


----------



## davpet

verysimple said:


> How would this light compare to Nitecore TM15?
> 
> S6330 is $100 cheaper, uses 1 less battery and specs are very close... Win?



I think it is more comparable to the TM11, as the TM15 is more of a thrower compared to these lights. I assume that the TM15's heat dissipation will be better, due to its larger head/heat sink. The nr. of brightness modes, size and weight are definitely a win for the Zebra, however the two stage switch of the TM11 and 15 are much more innovative. I will also miss the switch beacon light.


----------



## tonkem

tobrien said:


> just noticed ZL cleared out most everything on their GDocs spreadsheet (product comparison) to discontinued.



Interesting, looking forward to the new models, but strange to discontinue the SC80 as well. Perhaps to make room for the SC82. At least the Q50 is still on the future products list


----------



## moozooh

ZL said they will announce SC82 in March or April. There's a slight chance they'll make the tube a teensy bit wider to allow using 17500s (they're aware of enthusiasts trying that and of the results).


----------



## lightliker

ZRXBILL said:


> Great, I've been going nuts deciding between the Thrunite TN30 & the Sunwayman T60CS and now I see this.


We have the same doubt here .
The cons of this shorty (6330) are the cool white (I really like neutral white) and the gap between the high low mode and the low mid-mode.
Of course you can doubleclick around to go to the right output but then the UI loses it's practical use.
The T60CS can be taken in your pocket too and has more balanced levels. It's a pity that it doesn't come in neutral white and that the batteries are placed in series with the risk of going  when there is a bad cell amongst the three.......


----------



## StandardBattery

davpet said:


> ..... however the two stage switch of the TM11 and 15 are much more innovative. I will also miss the switch beacon light.


My initial thoughts on the Nitecore interface for the EA4 and TM15 are that it is crap. I know if I don't use this light for a while I'll forget about their Turbo Mode vs. Daily mode, and their totally broken lockout is a real pita. Unfortunately now that I have these I'll have to wait for the Zebra version in Neutral and won't be able to be an early adopter. Of course I have the SC600w to warm my heart and I expect using those Nitcores will make me appreciate the Zebra so much more. If that *** TM15 was not such a good deal I could have waited... oh well I have to try many lights otherwise I won't know if I really have the right one for me. I hope I can hold out, I expect the wait for the neutral may not be that long... it would be REALLY cool if it used an XM-L2.


----------



## Patriot

CarpentryHero said:


> Just to be clear, the TK75 is a near 80k lux thrower, where as the S6330 is going to be more floody maybe 30k lux.




30K lux seems like a lot for those small reflectors when compared to the TM11. It would be great if it will achieve that considering its size.


----------



## twl

Patriot said:


> 30K lux seems like a lot for those small reflectors when compared to the TM11. It would be great if it will achieve that considering its size.



The SC600 has ~5250 lux.
This light is basically 3 x SC600 with even the same reflectors. It will be under 15k lux.
Depending on how they focus the beams, it might be under 10k lux.


----------



## davpet

StandardBattery said:


> My initial thoughts on the Nitecore interface for the EA4 and TM15 are that it is crap.



Well, just imagine if you had to double click the shutter release button on your camera to focus, instead of just half pressing it.  Still, I can't comment on the Zebralight just yet. Hope it's really going to ship out on the 7th.. can't wait.


----------



## StandardBattery

davpet said:


> Well, just imagine if you had to double click the shutter release button on your camera to focus, instead of just half pressing it.  Still, I can't comment on the Zebralight just yet. Hope it's really going to ship out on the 7th.. can't wait.



I don't have to imagine, since I have several cameras, Zebralights, and the two Nitecores. I don't feel there is any relationship with a camera interface... different tools different controls, different objectives. When you 1/2 press on a shutter-button you are preparing for a full-press, or taking an instantaneous snapshot reading, if you 1/2 press by accident there is no harm done. On a flashlight you just need to TURN IT ON. Simple click of the Zebralight and it's on, slow click and it's on low. I almost never use the secondary levels so I don't need to double click much, but when I do I find it very easy, and easy to remember. 

I hope you do enjoy your Zebralight, but if you don't there are lots of good lights to choose from these days.


----------



## TEEJ

The difference between the camera and the flashlight is that there is more than one "on".

A camera focuses on the half press, and takes the pic on the full...whereas many lights use a half press for momentary on, which is different from 'on" in that letting go of the switch from half lets the light go out again.

For most people, this is not important. For tactical users who might turn the light on, realize its a bullet magnet when they see their adversaries lit up, and want the light OUT ASAP so they can go somewhere other than the other guy's last aim point...

So a second click is NOT the primary problem, but many prefer the fail-safe nature of just letting go to have the light go off....especially if they trained with twisty lights, etc.

Essentially, people like to use a UI they are familiar with rather than learn something new...especially if they might forget under stress.

If someone sold you a new car, and said, oh, btw, your gas is on the left and the brake is on the right...and you drove off figuring you'd remember THAT....there's a chance you'd forget when some one cut you off and you suddenly had to slam on the brakes.



Its like that for lights too..hence some "features" that confuse people who do not get why in the world a particular UI would work in such an odd way, etc.


----------



## davpet

StandardBattery said:


> I don't have to imagine, since I have several cameras, Zebralights, and the two Nitecores. I don't feel there is any relationship with a camera interface... different tools different controls, different objectives. When you 1/2 press on a shutter-button you are preparing for a full-press, or taking an instantaneous snapshot reading, if you 1/2 press by accident there is no harm done. On a flashlight you just need to TURN IT ON. Simple click of the Zebralight and it's on, slow click and it's on low. I almost never use the secondary levels so I don't need to double click much, but when I do I find it very easy, and easy to remember.
> 
> I hope you do enjoy your Zebralight, but if you don't there are lots of good lights to choose from these days.



Yeah, ok.  I was just trying to point out the fact that with a two stage button, you can have more possibilities. Or, you can reach different functions easier/faster. How the manufacturer programs the ui is a different matter. I am not saying that any manufacturer's ui is better than the other. I am just talking about two stage switches. Heck, probably a three stage switch would give even more possibilities.. and more complications as well. Happy new year!


----------



## davpet

TEEJ said:


> The difference between the camera and the flashlight is that there is more than one "on".
> 
> A camera focuses on the half press, and takes the pic on the full...whereas many lights use a half press for momentary on, which is different from 'on" in that letting go of the switch from half lets the light go out again.
> 
> For most people, this is not important. For tactical users who might turn the light on, realize its a bullet magnet when they see their adversaries lit up, and want the light OUT ASAP so they can go somewhere other than the other guy's last aim point...
> 
> So a second click is NOT the primary problem, but many prefer the fail-safe nature of just letting go to have the light go off....especially if they trained with twisty lights, etc.
> 
> Essentially, people like to use a UI they are familiar with rather than learn something new...especially if they might forget under stress.
> 
> If someone sold you a new car, and said, oh, btw, your gas is on the left and the brake is on the right...and you drove off figuring you'd remember THAT....there's a chance you'd forget when some one cut you off and you suddenly had to slam on the brakes.
> 
> 
> 
> Its like that for lights too..hence some "features" that confuse people who do not get why in the world a particular UI would work in such an odd way, etc.



Maybe because it's 3 in the morning and I just came home from a party, but I don't see whether you support two stage switches or not. 'cause Nitecore's ui does what you described: if you press it halfway and hold it, the light comes on.. release it to switch it off. Press all the way and hold it, the light comes on on turbo. Release to switch off. If you half/full press and release within a second, it stays on. I can't believe I'm writing this down. Probably you know it. 

Yeah, gas on the left and brake on the right would be confusing..


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> Maybe because it's 3 in the morning and I just came home from a party, but I don't see whether you support two stage switches or not. 'cause Nitecore's ui does what you described: if you press it halfway and hold it, the light comes on.. release it to switch it off. Press all the way and hold it, the light comes on on turbo. Release to switch off. If you half/full press and release within a second, it stays on. I can't believe I'm writing this down. Probably you know it.
> 
> Yeah, gas on the left and brake on the right would be confusing..



I'm not so much as supporting per se, more of explaining.

I see a ton of posts where someone says they don't understand why anyone would want a light with more than 0.00000001 lumens, or less than 1,000,000 lumens, or with a strobe, or without a strobe, or a tail switch/side switch/control ring, IR, etc....and I just try to throw perspective out there.


----------



## carl

I wonder if Zebralight should have made the body/tailcap more like the Nitecore EA4 - a rotating internal endcap inside the tailcap - thus making the unibody - that is, the head and battery tube as one piece for improved heat transfer - a possibility.


----------



## kralyevski

i just wonder how much money are being held in peoples pockets (instead for going to Nitecore or Fenix...etc) just because Zebralight decides to announce some flashlight and then in the next few months...still pre-order or back order or nothing (Q50)


----------



## juplin

kralyevski said:


> i just wonder how much money are being held in peoples pockets (instead for going to Nitecore or Fenix...etc) just because Zebralight decides to ...


... (instead for going to Nitecore or Fenix or Olight ...etc)
Count me one for finding alternative. I like Olight's memory for last used mode that Zebralight should provide as an option like they did for cool white/ natural white.


----------



## twl

Just my opinion, but I think that even though it is very short, it is too fat to be considered a pocket light.
I would never EDC anything that's two and a quarter inches across the head.

In the "belt light" category, or the "overcoat pocket" category, that changes the whole dynamics because there are plenty of other lights out there with a lot of lumens and a lot of throw that you can fit in your overcoat pocket or hang on a belt.

Who is the intended market for this light?


----------



## juplin

twl said:


> Who is the intended market for this light?


I will use S6330 as my bike light.
11 hrs @ 400 lumens or 3 hrs @ 1100 lumens is comfortable for biking.


----------



## magnum70383

juplin said:


> I will use S6330 as my bike light.
> 11 hrs @ 400 lumens or 3 hrs @ 1100 lumens is comfortable for biking.



What kind of mount do you have that fits the s6330?? I have a tk41 that I'd love to mount on my bike


----------



## juplin

magnum70383 said:


> What kind of mount do you have that fits the s6330?? I have a tk41 that I'd love to mount on my bike


I will use the following 6-inch clamp for woodworking as my clip for "big" bike light like S6330.





One handle of this 6-inch clamp shall be fastened on the front mount of bike.


----------



## g.p.

Beckler said:


> 6330 has much more versatility of brightness levels; that's a big plus. But double clicking doesn't really make any sense to me. More innovation is required here.


If the switch was easy enough to half push (like a camera), wouldn't it easily activate in your pocket? The biggest complaint of ZL in the past was the too easily activated switches. I don't see how you could only half push the new switches with how much effort it takes now.


----------



## nawwk

I'm deciding between the Zebralight s6330 or the Jetbeam DDR30, $60 difference 2400lm or 3200lm both uses 3X18650.


----------



## TEEJ

The early ZL switches were too easy to pocket activate, but the later ones were more recessed...at least my SC600's never lit in my pockets, etc.

By recessing the button, it seems to have fixed that early problem.


----------



## kolbasz

Or you can count in the SWM T60CS, it is 165USD on hkequipment.net for forum members, free ship.


----------



## Elitl

twl said:


> Who is the intended market for this light?



I am.

However i would prefer 2400 lumens in a SC52 size... but In this forum, we obey the laws of thermodynamics! So i will take the S6330 and its "enormous" size.


----------



## WmArnold1

Elitl said:


> I am.
> 
> However i would prefer 2400 lumens in a SC52 size... but In this forum, we obey the laws of thermodynamics! So i will take the S6330 and its "enormous" size.


I concur; and, as LED's become more thermally efficient, flashlights can become smaller - eventually, 2400 Lu in the SC52 size! - just don't expect the batteries to last.. 

Btw, note that the XM-L2 has been announced here and it's about two bins better for about 60% the price of the "old" XM-L emitter. Subsequently, I'll bet that manufacturers will start purchasing these asap.


----------



## moozooh

ZL won't be using XM-L2 for the next few months, or so I've been told by their representative. They'll eventually upgrade their lights to newer LEDs, but now they're focused on getting neutral white models back in stock and releasing promised new models (SC32, T5, SC82, SC6330b, etc.)


----------



## WmArnold1

moozooh said:


> ZL won't be using XM-L2 for the next few months, or so I've been told by their representative. They'll eventually upgrade their lights to newer LEDs, but now they're focused on getting neutral white models back in stock and releasing promised new models (SC32, T5, SC82, SC6330b, etc.)



That's reasonable.


----------



## tonkem

nawwk said:


> I'm deciding between the Zebralight s6330 or the Jetbeam DDR30, $60 difference 2400lm or 3200lm both uses 3X18650.



I suspect the Jetbeam will throw better, but only had 3 outputs versus the 11 on the zebralight. Also, it is 6.45 inches vs the 4.1 inches of the zebralight. I personally prefer the zebralight quality and interface to the jetbeam. I have only owned one jetbeam, but it was not my favorite  I sold it, as it was not to my liking, but that is me. Other lights I own and have kept, are : surefire E1L, Fury, E2lAA, Lupine Betty TLS, Wilma TL, Zebralights Sc80, sc52, h600, sc600, h502. I have to say I really like the zebralights, and their ability to do a low low, but when are you are talking about 2000 lumens, it may be that you would carry another light to do the low lows. In the case of the Lupine Betty and Wilma, they both only have a low of 250 lumens and 50 lumens respectively, but they are very bright lows, whereas the zebralight will be similar in performance, but can run longer than the betty, and has the lower low options. Just my .02...


----------



## Primax

i received a shipment confirmation..

Shipping Confirmation




This email confirms that your order was Shipped. Please contact us if you have any questions about your order. 


Shipping to continental U.S. via USPS takes about 2-4 days.
USPS Tracking: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action


International orders are shipped from China via postal airmail, EMS, or DHL. You can query your package by the tracking code above according to your shipping method. 
Please allow 2-6 weeks on average for airmail and custom clearance. 
You can track here: http://www.17track.net/IndexEn.html
or EMS : http://www.ems.com.cn/english.html
DHL : http://www.dhl.com


Thank you for choosing ZebraLight, Inc..


----------



## carl

That's one heck of a package you'll be receiving in 2-4 days! Please report back asap!


----------



## Leoht

I received a Shipping Confirmation today too. Now another 2 - 6 week wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


----------



## henry1960

Primax said:


> i received a shipment confirmation..
> 
> Shipping Confirmation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This email confirms that your order was Shipped. Please contact us if you have any questions about your order.
> 
> 
> Shipping to continental U.S. via USPS takes about 2-4 days.
> USPS Tracking: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction.action
> 
> 
> International orders are shipped from China via postal airmail, EMS, or DHL. You can query your package by the tracking code above according to your shipping method.
> Please allow 2-6 weeks on average for airmail and custom clearance.
> You can track here: http://www.17track.net/IndexEn.html
> or EMS : http://www.ems.com.cn/english.html
> DHL : http://www.dhl.com
> 
> 
> Thank you for choosing ZebraLight, Inc..



NICE!!! Im jealous..I did not recieve my shipping conformation


----------



## Beacon of Light

****NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

This behemoth is here which is unexpected to me as I figured the Q50 would have been green lighted before this, but alas I'm sure there will be happy CPFers with this news. This is probably an idea survival light with that many lumens but also the runtime on low will last a [email protected] Pre-oder now but item is shipping Jan 7th. Who is in on this? I still don't have 18650 lights yet so not sure if this will tempt me.


----------



## TweakMDS

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

All I can say is DAYUM!

I'm not so much into multiple emitter and multiple 18650 lights, but I applaud their efforts to poor all of this in a good looking package and keep the low modes with insane runtimes that Zebralight has become famous for.

Certainly a WOW-factor light.

Edit: among the feature sets, this one would take many of my worries about multiple 18650's away... 
Three independent battery power channel for ultimate battery safty and flexibility (mix and match any 1-3 batteries)

I'm tempted to say this is the best implementation of the multi-xml lights I've seen so far.


----------



## Yourfun2

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

Do you know for sure this has actually shipped?


----------



## CarpentryHero

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

Cellguy and other CPFmp dealers are still waiting for there tracking number or delivery of these lights. I hope they become available by the 11th. So I can treat myself to one for my birthday :naughty:


----------



## tonkem

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*



CarpentryHero said:


> Cellguy and other CPFmp dealers are still waiting for there tracking number or delivery of these lights. I hope they become available by the 11th. So I can treat myself to one for my birthday :naughty:



Ordered mine from Cellguy  He got his tracking this am on the first units


----------



## Yourfun2

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

Good News! They have been released to shippers and should be arriving at dealers Friday or Monday.


----------



## CarpentryHero

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*

Thanks I just saw :thumbsup: 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight-Interest-Thread


----------



## TMCGLASSON36

*Re: ***NEW*** Zebralight's "monster" S6330 Triple 18650 Triple XM-L*



tonkem said:


> Ordered mine from Cellguy  He got his tracking this am on the first units



Just paid for mine and the first 11 will get to give the good or bad news first. Can't wait.


----------



## tonkem

TMCGLASSON36 said:


> Just paid for mine and the first 11 will get to give the good or bad news first. Can't wait.



Yes. Be sure to post first impressions.  will do the same, after I play with it for a bit and compare to my other lights.


----------



## maxrep12

Ordered mine earlier today with the 3 Zebra 18650 combo deal. And a deal it is. Thx CellGuy!


----------



## lightpuppy

Combo deal for me too. Nothing like a new flashlight to get me out at night for a walk. It will be interesting to hear how the 
S6330 vs the Tk75 vs the TM15 compare. My guess is for throw it's easily the TK75 and for best UI it's between the S6330 and the TM15. The TK75 has very basic modes, but easy to use. I do like the flexibility offered by the Zebra Lights. The Nitecore just has lots of mode levels that are easy to switch between quickly.


----------



## redorblack

I went with the battery combo as well, time to step up a bit from the Trustfire 2400 cells and with that deal... why not.


----------



## StarHalo

Hm, well it's not the brightest of the 3 XM-L lights, but that much build quality in a light that big, and it's nearly half the price of the others, hm..


----------



## g.p.

I'm on the fence about this one for those same reasons. The SC600 was just upgraded to 900 lumens, so it only makes sense that that the 6330 will probably be bumped up to at least 2700 lumens on it's first upgrade. I've always gotten the first round, then been tempted by the upgraded version shortly after. I think I might wait on this one.


----------



## twl

g.p. said:


> I'm on the fence about this one for those same reasons. The SC600 was just upgraded to 900 lumens, so it only makes sense that that the 6330 will probably be bumped up to at least 2700 lumens on it's first upgrade. I've always gotten the first round, then been tempted by the upgraded version shortly after. I think I might wait on this one.



It might go to 3300 lumens if they use the XML2.
Malkoff is getting 1100 lumens measured OTF with the XML2 in the new Hound Dog with just 1 XML2.


----------



## g.p.

twl said:


> It might go to 3300 lumens if they use the XML2.
> Malkoff is getting 1100 lumens measured OTF with the XML2 in the new Hound Dog with just 1 XML2.


Yeah, that's more what I was thinking. A jump to 2700 isn't really worth waiting for, but it will probably be more than that!


----------



## moozooh

3300 just won't happen. Cree gives a hard limit of 1052 lumen sustained at 3 amperes—that's best case scenario at 85C before losses in optics. Overdriving the LEDs with the thermal dissipation concerns seen in a light of this size is out of question. At best you're going to see 2900 lm sustained with some 3000..3100 lm in the first couple seconds before LEDs have the time to heat up. Not sure how Malkoff measures his new light, but in any case he clearly states "950 lm sustained", which is the number you should be looking at.


----------



## g.p.

That's still a possible 500lm jump. Not too shabby.


----------



## biglights

g.p. said:


> That's still a possible 500lm jump. Not too shabby.



At that level i think u would be hard pressed to even notice the increase.


----------



## g.p.

Yeah maybe. My biggest lights at the moment are "only" around 1000lm.


----------



## moozooh

ZL will likely update this light to U3 eventually... That'll be 2650 lm or so. Even if one could discern 2400 from 2900, 2650 from 2900 would be pretty tough, eh. 

It appears that XM-L2 has slight differences in forward voltage and whatnot, so updating SC6330 with it would likely require changes to the circuitry. It won't be worth the trouble at least until there's a new LED with a major jump in output, say 1200 LED lumen at 3 amps. Right now top XM-L2 is only some 7% higher than the top XM-L.


----------



## neo_xeno

"Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Max output (H1) spec will be updated later with data from production samples."

From their site!


----------



## GordoJones88

moozooh said:


> 3300 just won't happen. Cree gives a hard limit of 1052 lumen sustained at 3 amperes—that's best case scenario at 85C before losses in optics. Overdriving the LEDs with the thermal dissipation concerns seen in a light of this size is out of question. At best you're going to see 2900 lm sustained with some 3000..3100 lm in the first couple seconds before LEDs have the time to heat up. Not sure how Malkoff measures his new light, but in any case he clearly states "950 lm sustained", which is the number you should be looking at.





moozooh said:


> ZL will likely update this light to U3 eventually... That'll be 2650 lm or so. Even if one could discern 2400 from 2900, 2650 from 2900 would be pretty tough, eh.
> 
> It appears that XM-L2 has slight differences in forward voltage and whatnot, so updating SC6330 with it would likely require changes to the circuitry. It won't be worth the trouble at least until there's a new LED with a major jump in output, say 1200 LED lumen at 3 amps. Right now top XM-L2 is only some 7% higher than the top XM-L.



Thanks for not making me have to type all that out.


----------



## tonkem

neo_xeno said:


> "Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Max output (H1) spec will be updated later with data from production samples."
> 
> From their site!



Nice. Can't wait to get mine.  probably 2600 lumens. ?


----------



## GordoJones88

If you can expect at least 5% brighter per bin, it's an additional 120 lumens for 2520 lumens.

If you can expect at least 7% brighter per bin, it's an additional 170 lumens for 2570 lumens.

Edit: Of course, the XMLU3 bin is essentially the same as the XML2. So, BAM!


----------



## moozooh

Haha, told ya! I'd guess 2600 lm conservatively specified, but probably up to 2700..2750 if kept sufficiently cool. Either way, good job ZL! Dealing a blow to the current competition while saving yourself the trouble of updating the light down the road.



> Max output (H1) spec will be updated later with data from production samples.



As I highly doubt the "last minute changes" included reprogramming all other modes to accommodate the increase in efficiency, that likely means they should be a bit brighter as well. So H2-1 will be closer to 1200 lm after all?


----------



## g.p.

neo_xeno said:


> "Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Max output (H1) spec will be updated later with data from production samples."
> 
> From their site!


Nice find!

Damn, now they will probably get more of my money! :mecry:

:twothumbs


----------



## redorblack

Bonus... my impulse buy just got a bit better, no worry that next week they will release the next bin up... just saw this update on the Zebralight site and was going to comment, as if news from yesterday wouldn't already be posted here 

Anyone have an idea how much current we can expect the batteries to be loaded with (each)? I've took a deal with 3 zebralight batteries included but wondering if the Panasonic 3400 might be getting a)available, b) worth stepping up to yet. Hard to figure out from HJK's battery review which are the best "bang for the buck" or best "money be damned" cells. I see the Ebay prices seem to be dropping from a month or so ago (sent from China), which makes me wonder if the prices are really dropping as production ramps up or are fake cells hitting the market. Think I'll go ask in the battery forum. Oh... with the separate power paths for each cell, and Zebralight's circuitry... is a protected cell just one more thing to go wrong and a waste of money? My Pila IBC charger seems to be minimal risk (each cell charges completely separate from the other one) and I think the flashlight is also...

Scott


----------



## davpet

Dhl Just delivered my light! Sent from China on Monday to Europe. Went through customs. I will play around with it this evening. Unfortunately I still have to work for a few hours.


----------



## twl

redorblack said:


> Bonus... my impulse buy just got a bit better, no worry that next week they will release the next bin up... just saw this update on the Zebralight site and was going to comment, as if news from yesterday wouldn't already be posted here
> 
> Anyone have an idea how much current we can expect the batteries to be loaded with (each)? I've took a deal with 3 zebralight batteries included but wondering if the Panasonic 3400 might be getting a)available, b) worth stepping up to yet. Hard to figure out from HJK's battery review which are the best "bang for the buck" or best "money be damned" cells. I see the Ebay prices seem to be dropping from a month or so ago (sent from China), which makes me wonder if the prices are really dropping as production ramps up or are fake cells hitting the market. Think I'll go ask in the battery forum. Oh... with the separate power paths for each cell, and Zebralight's circuitry... is a protected cell just one more thing to go wrong and a waste of money? My Pila IBC charger seems to be minimal risk (each cell charges completely separate from the other one) and I think the flashlight is also...
> 
> Scott



With a single li-ion battery dedicated to each emitter, the battery load will be somewhere near 3 amps per battery when the light is set at Turbo or whatever they call the highest output level they have.
The reasoning goes like this.
Each emitter needs about 3 amps at (or a little above) its forward voltage of 3.1v to reach the specified lumen output. Each li-ion battery has a range of about 3v-4.2v, depending on its state of charge, with most of the capacity residing above 3.5v.
Since 3.5v-4.2v is not a whole lot higher than the 3.1v forward voltage of the XML, then the current drawn from these batteries will be very closely related to the 3 amps that the emitter needs for full output.
And the circuit is not 100% efficient either.

So, for a "seat of the pants" figure, it will be somewhere near 3 amps draw per battery on Turbo.
Obviously, it will be less current draw at the lower output levels.


----------



## CM2010

How long will it stay on turbo before stepping down?


----------



## twl

CM2010 said:


> How long will it stay on turbo before stepping down?




I don't know the answer to that question.
If it's on a timer, then the timer will step it down at a programmed time.
If it's a thermal step-down, then when it reaches a certain temperature at the sensor, it will step it down at that time.
If it's a voltage step-down, then it will step down when the voltage sensor "sees" the programmed step-down voltage.

These are circuit details which I don't know about the internal design of this light.


----------



## davpet

twl said:


> I don't know the answer to that question.
> If it's on a timer, then the timer will step it down at a programmed time.
> If it's a thermal step-down, then when it reaches a certain temperature at the sensor, it will step it down at that time.
> If it's a voltage step-down, then it will step down when the voltage sensor "sees" the programmed step-down voltage.
> 
> These are circuit details which I don't know about the internal design of this light.



On their site It says that this light is temperature regulated. Will try it out tonight.


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> Dhl Just delivered my light! Sent from China on Monday to Europe. Went through customs. I will play around with it this evening. Unfortunately I still have to work for a few hours.



Pictures please


----------



## selas

twl said:


> I don't know the answer to that question.
> If it's on a timer, then the timer will step it down at a programmed time.
> If it's a thermal step-down, then when it reaches a certain temperature at the sensor, it will step it down at that time.
> If it's a voltage step-down, then it will step down when the voltage sensor "sees" the programmed step-down voltage.
> 
> These are circuit details which I don't know about the internal design of this light.



See this post on the first page:



ZebraLight said:


> A PID thermal regulation will be implemented using 288 brightness levels (all current regulated, but only a few are accessible by users).


----------



## davpet

Okay, I am still in the office, but couldn't resist opening the package: quick first impressions: this light is very small. The pictures don't do it justice. It is much smaller than the TM 11 or 15. It doesn't disappear, but fits nicely in my pocket. The light feels nice and well built. The UI is better than what I expected. Unfortunately the lanyard ring is rubbing off the anodizing.
Sorry for being so brief, I just type this on my mobile phone.


----------



## dra90n

tonkem said:


> Pictures please



Just got mine and here you go! 











Interesting point so far is that if one battery is in, only one of the 3 emitters work. If two are in, then two emitters work. 3 batteries, then all 3 emitters work.


----------



## WmArnold1

redorblack said:


> Bonus... my impulse buy just got a bit better, no worry that next week they will release the next bin up... just saw this update on the Zebralight site and was going to comment, as if news from yesterday wouldn't already be posted here
> 
> Anyone have an idea how much current we can expect the batteries to be loaded with (each)? I've took a deal with 3 zebralight batteries included but wondering if the Panasonic 3400 might be getting a)available, b) worth stepping up to yet. Hard to figure out from HJK's battery review which are the best "bang for the buck" or best "money be damned" cells. I see the Ebay prices seem to be dropping from a month or so ago (sent from China), which makes me wonder if the prices are really dropping as production ramps up or are fake cells hitting the market. Think I'll go ask in the battery forum. Oh... with the separate power paths for each cell, and Zebralight's circuitry... is a protected cell just one more thing to go wrong and a waste of money? My Pila IBC charger seems to be minimal risk (each cell charges completely separate from the other one) and I think the flashlight is also...
> 
> Scott



I just ordered three (3) Panasonic NCR 18650*B*'s (3400 mah) yesterday, tentatively, for my S6330. :naughty: Imho, protected cells are bad because they can unexpectedly thrust you into darkness. In lieu; ZL's vaulted step-down alerts me when my battery is getting into trouble, and, if I'm not prepared to replace/charge the battery; my lowest step-down level lasts for DAYS. On the charger side; I've invested in a Pila IBC too - so, riding bareback was an easy choice for me.


----------



## RCLumens

Awesome - So many thanks to another eagerly awaiting CPF member! I'm looking forward to more feedback and will put an order in pretty soon! Many thanks for sharing!



davpet said:


> Okay, I am still in the office, but couldn't resist opening the package: quick first impressions: this light is very small. The pictures don't do it justice. It is much smaller than the TM 11 or 15. It doesn't disappear, but fits nicely in my pocket. The light feels nice and well built. The UI is better than what I expected. Unfortunately the lanyard ring is rubbing off the anodizing.
> Sorry for being so brief, I just type this on my mobile phone.


----------



## magnum70383

FINALLY someone has it on hand!!! Can't wait for more reviews. I've held off buying this light or the TK75 for a month!!! Ahhhhhhh


----------



## verysimple

Very nice! Free upgrade for those who got theirs already..



neo_xeno said:


> "Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Max output (H1) spec will be updated later with data from production samples."
> 
> From their site!


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> Okay, I am still in the office, but couldn't resist opening the package: quick first impressions: this light is very small. The pictures don't do it justice. It is much smaller than the TM 11 or 15. It doesn't disappear, but fits nicely in my pocket. The light feels nice and well built. The UI is better than what I expected. Unfortunately the lanyard ring is rubbing off the anodizing.
> Sorry for being so brief, I just type this on my mobile phone.



Pictures in the hand and next to other lights, when you can would be helpful. I am likely going to be waiting until end of next week to get mine.  hopefully sooner, but being realistic. I am surprised you got yours so fast. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## davpet

Okay, I am finally home. First of all, I compared the Zebra to the Nitecore TM11: the TM's spill beam is wider, and its hot spot is smaller and brighter on max. I've read about the U3 bins on the Zebra, and was expecting it to be noticeably brighter than the TM11. However after performing some ceiling bounce tests, my lux meter shows that the TM11 is brighter. Same position: S6330: 92 lux, TM11: 110 lux. These figures are immediately after switching them on. My TM15 also measures 110 lux, which is specd. at 2450 lumens. It will be nice to see figures from other forum members with more professional equipment.

One more thing: on the highest mode, the Zebra gets hot really fast. I will try to measure the time it takes for it to step down from high in room temperature.


----------



## moozooh

davpet said:


> I will try to measure the time it takes for it to step down from high in room temperature.



If it steps down in 288 tiny steps like advertised that'll be a pretty difficult task... Depending on your room temperature it might not even reach its max brightness.


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> Okay, I am finally home. First of all, I compared the Zebra to the Nitecore TM11: the TM's spill beam is wider, and its hot spot is smaller and brighter on max. I've read about the U3 bins on the Zebra, and was expecting it to be noticeably brighter than the TM11. However after performing some ceiling bounce tests, my lux meter shows that the TM11 is brighter. Same position: S6330: 92 lux, TM11: 110 lux. These figures are immediately after switching them on. My TM15 also measures 110 lux, which is specd. at 2450 lumens. It will be nice to see figures from other forum members with more professional equipment.
> 
> One more thing: on the highest mode, the Zebra gets hot really fast. I will try to measure the time it takes for it to step down from high in room temperature.



umm that;s disappointing..... Are all batts fully charged?

Edit: Thanks btw for reporting back!


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> Okay, I am finally home. First of all, I compared the Zebra to the Nitecore TM11: the TM's spill beam is wider, and its hot spot is smaller and brighter on max. I've read about the U3 bins on the Zebra, and was expecting it to be noticeably brighter than the TM11. However after performing some ceiling bounce tests, my lux meter shows that the TM11 is brighter. Same position: S6330: 92 lux, TM11: 110 lux. These figures are immediately after switching them on. My TM15 also measures 110 lux, which is specd. at 2450 lumens. It will be nice to see figures from other forum members with more professional equipment.
> 
> One more thing: on the highest mode, the Zebra gets hot really fast. I will try to measure the time it takes for it to step down from high in room temperature.



I know on the ZL's that you can be be if different default "ramps"....IE: on the SC600, I was in a ramp that had 500 L as the highest....and I had to reset it to the ramp that had 750 L as the highest out put.

Is it possible that you are in a similar situation?

Otherwise, it can simply be the beam characteristics. For example, you describe the TM as having more spill (= More Unfocused Light) plus a smaller brighter hot spot. A beam with more focused light, but focused in a larger hot spot, WOULD look larger but dimmer...as a fatter hot spot sucks up lumen output like crazy.

It sounds like going outside in the dark, and seeing what you see in a real world scenario, would be more telling/diagnostic.


----------



## Yourfun2

And the good news is, I haven't ordered one yet. Anxiously waiting for a picture of TM11 alongside S6330. If it is 20% smaller, I can accept it being 15% dimmer. Sure would like to see a decent picture of this much anticipated light.


----------



## davpet

TEEJ said:


> I know on the ZL's that you can be be if different default "ramps"....IE: on the SC600, I was in a ramp that had 500 L as the highest....and I had to reset it to the ramp that had 750 L as the highest out put.
> 
> Is it possible that you are in a similar situation?
> 
> Otherwise, it can simply be the beam characteristics. For example, you describe the TM as having more spill (= More Unfocused Light) plus a smaller brighter hot spot. A beam with more focused light, but focused in a larger hot spot, WOULD look larger but dimmer...as a fatter hot spot sucks up lumen output like crazy.
> 
> It sounds like going outside in the dark, and seeing what you see in a real world scenario, would be more telling/diagnostic.



Hi,

So, how do I reset it? My light came without anything else in the box. No holster, lanyard, instructions. 
There was only an invoice that states that the value of the light is 20 dollars! The company name is Shanghai Akernar Tech CO., LTD. I guess they are doing this to avoid customs.


----------



## davpet

Yes, they are fully charged. I am using Cytac 3100 mah batteries.


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> Okay, I am finally home. First of all, I compared the Zebra to the Nitecore TM11: the TM's spill beam is wider, and its hot spot is smaller and brighter on max. I've read about the U3 bins on the Zebra, and was expecting it to be noticeably brighter than the TM11. However after performing some ceiling bounce tests, my lux meter shows that the TM11 is brighter. Same position: S6330: 92 lux, TM11: 110 lux. These figures are immediately after switching them on. My TM15 also measures 110 lux, which is specd. at 2450 lumens. It will be nice to see figures from other forum members with more professional equipment.
> 
> One more thing: on the highest mode, the Zebra gets hot really fast. I will try to measure the time it takes for it to step down from high in room temperature.



Any pics of the packaging as well as this will be zebras largest light. Packing would have to change.


----------



## davpet

How do I upload pictures here? I am going to grab my camera soon and will take a few pics.


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> How do I upload pictures here? I am going to grab my camera soon and will take a few pics.



I use Flickr to post them post the link using the forum tools.


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, how do I reset it? My light came without anything else in the box. No holster, lanyard, instructions.
> There was only an invoice that states that the value of the light is 20 dollars! The company name is Shanghai Akernar Tech CO., LTD. I guess they are doing this to avoid customs.



?

Who did you order from?

My ZL stuff never came like that at least.


----------



## tonkem

Any pics in the hand, and the packaging as well? also some pics compared to other lights? Thanks for the pics!



dra90n said:


> Just got mine and here you go! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting point so far is that if one battery is in, only one of the 3 emitters work. If two are in, then two emitters work. 3 batteries, then all 3 emitters work.


----------



## xed888

You have to switch it on and double click it and that will change brightness.


----------



## dra90n

tonkem said:


> Any pics in the hand, and the packaging as well? also some pics compared to other lights? Thanks for the pics!



Here you go!






Box it came in, Nitecore TM15, Xtar 3400mah 18650 cell, s6330 in hand


----------



## dra90n

davpet said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, how do I reset it? My light came without anything else in the box. No holster, lanyard, instructions.
> There was only an invoice that states that the value of the light is 20 dollars! The company name is Shanghai Akernar Tech CO., LTD. I guess they are doing this to avoid customs.



Yep, same here. Just the box, the s6330 and an invoice for $20. Will see if DHL send an invoice in the next month for import tax etc


----------



## dra90n

tonkem said:


> Any pics of the packaging as well as this will be zebras largest light. Packing would have to change.








Here you go!

Box, TM15, 18650 cell, s6330 in my hand


----------



## davpet

TEEJ said:


> ?
> 
> Who did you order from?
> 
> My ZL stuff never came like that at least.



I pre ordered it directly from Zebralight, on their website.


----------



## dra90n

Nitecore TM15, s6330, SC600w


----------



## CM2010

Still can't get over how small it is.


----------



## GeoBruin

This assumes that the H1 is programmed to be one of the presets reachable by double clicking. If it's not, you would have to get into programming mode and set H1 as one of the options. 



xed888 said:


> You have to switch it on and double click it and that will change brightness.


----------



## tonkem

dra90n said:


> Here you go!
> 
> Box, TM15, 18650 cell, s6330 in my hand



WOW, that is a small light! I like it.... Thanks for the pics. Much appreciated. How do you like it compared to the TM15?


----------



## xed888

dra90n said:


> Just got mine and here you go! 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting point so far is that if one battery is in, only one of the 3 emitters work. If two are in, then two emitters work. 3 batteries, then all 3 emitters work.



I wonder if this might be the cause of the lower output? i.e. all 3 batts should be at identical Vf....


----------



## davpet

The packaging





Held in hand





I am using the Nitecore EC1's lanyard. It fits through the little hole, so I don't have to use the ring.





With the TMs


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> The packaging
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Held in hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am using the Nitecore EC1's lanyard. It fits through the little hole, so I don't have to use the ring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the TMs



Nice, thanks for the pics. Are you going to be taking any beamshots vs the TM's? Thanks again....


----------



## davpet

GeoBruin said:


> This assumes that the H1 is programmed to be one of the presets reachable by double clicking. If it's not, you would have to get into programming mode and set H1 as one of the options.



It seems that the highest level can't be reconfigured, only the H2: higher, lower, strobe.


----------



## davpet

Tail standing trio


----------



## xed888

sorry to rain on anyone's parade but i am curious as to why it's less bright than a TM11?


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Nice, thanks for the pics. Are you going to be taking any beamshots vs the TM's? Thanks again....



I would like to, however I don't think I will have the time for it today.


----------



## verysimple

few minutes after midnight is manageable. :twothumbs



davpet said:


> I would like to, however I don't think I will have the time for it today.


----------



## dra90n

tonkem said:


> WOW, that is a small light! I like it.... Thanks for the pics. Much appreciated. How do you like it compared to the TM15?



No problem. The s6330 definitely has a wider floodier beam compared to the TM15 but I prefer the UI and lowest low mode of the s6330. The TM15 does have a better strobe. I found that the S6330 heats up quicker than the TM15 (not a scientific test but done with both starting at room temp in off, and then turning to high). Could be better thermal conductivity to the body though?

Incidentally, the lowest setting of the s6330 is lower than my SC600w.


----------



## davpet

I couldn't find my camera tripod, but just had to do it anyway  Of course the camera is on manual exposure.






S6330





TM11


----------



## Globi23

This is only the hotspot?

how about spill?


----------



## TEEJ

Globi23 said:


> This is only the hotspot?
> 
> how about spill?



LOL


That's the light it threw out onto the wall, the spill is the unfocused light that misses the reflector...but, which is represented in the pic..as I'm sure the camera can't separate out the parts of the beam.


----------



## TEEJ

The thing I'm wondering about is if the maker of the lights, who is paid $20 each by ZL, is drop shipping the lights to us with the ZL paperwork.

IE: ZL pays $20/light, charges ~ $180/light, and makes a small profit for their troubles.


----------



## stp

TEEJ said:


> The thing I'm wondering about is if the maker of the lights, who is paid $20 each by ZL, is drop shipping the lights to us with the ZL paperwork.
> 
> IE: ZL pays $20/light, charges ~ $180/light, and makes a small profit for their troubles.




The 20$ amount is just bogus to overstep the import fees/taxes/Vat in Europe and so on...It's how it is with ZL and many other companies when they send things directly from China.

Even in China nobody is going to make light like that for 20$....


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> Yes, they are fully charged. I am using Cytac 3100 mah batteries.



ZL informed me that to get full output, batts need to be of high quality :shrug:

I assume cytac 3100 are Panasonic 3100s?


----------



## jfl

I am using 3400 mAh Orbtronics and I have no trouble believing that this light outputs at least 2400 lumens. The spill is bright and there is a very large difference between high and its sub-level.


----------



## twl

One thing I noticed is that the Nitecore TM seemed to have no difficulty with "the batteries".
Perhaps put the batteries that were in the Nitecore into the ZL, and see if that makes a difference.
If no difference, then it would seem to indicate that it's a difference between the lights.


----------



## juplin

twl said:


> One thing I noticed is that the Nitecore TM seemed to have no difficulty with "the batteries".
> Perhaps put the batteries that were in the Nitecore into the ZL, and see if that makes a difference.
> If no difference, then it would seem to indicate that it's a difference between the lights.


Under the same turbo mode, three 18650's will provide total 9A in S6330 configuration, i.e. 3A current per 18650, while four 18650's will also provide total 9A in TM11/TM15 configuration, i.e. 2.25A current per 18650.
That's why S6330 requires excellent batteries.


----------



## twl

juplin said:


> Under the same turbo mode, three 18650's will provide total 9A in S6330 configuration, i.e. 3A current per 18650, while four 18650's will also provide total 9A in TM11/TM15 configuration, i.e. 2.25A current per 18650.
> That's why S6330 requires excellent batteries.



Thanks.
After spending a little time looking over HKJ's battery tests, I haven't seen any 18650 that couldn't put out 3 amps with a full charge.
Those Cytac 3100 would have to be extraordinarily pathetic to not be able to produce even 1c discharge rate.


----------



## TEEJ

twl said:


> Thanks.
> After spending a little time looking over HKJ's battery tests, I haven't seen any 18650 that couldn't put out 3 amps with a full charge.
> Those Cytac 3100 would have to be extraordinarily pathetic to not be able to produce even 1c discharge rate.



It would be expected if they were recycled lap top cells repackaged as new though.


----------



## juplin

twl said:


> Thanks.
> After spending a little time looking over HKJ's battery tests, I haven't seen any 18650 that couldn't put out 3 amps with a full charge.


It might be individual difference of batteries. A better way to justify is changing to other batteries such as Sanyo 18650 or IMR18650's for TM11/S6330 and repeating the test. If output of S6330 is still less than TM11, then it can infer to the problem of S6330 itself.


----------



## TEEJ

With it actually letting the light run on one cell per LED, etc...if you found ONE cell that was different, even that would be diagnostic.


----------



## CarpentryHero

Wow after reading about how this is wired, I have to ask.... 
(I apologize I've been on NyQuil for three days)

how does it a achieve a one year run time in its ultra low mode when it's wired like three sc600's taped together?


----------



## TEEJ

CarpentryHero said:


> Wow after reading about how this is wired, I have to ask....
> (I apologize I've been on NyQuil for three days)
> 
> how does it a achieve a one year run time in its ultra low mode when it's wired like three sc600's taped together?



Because its not.



And I'm sick with the Flu too.

Its EVERYWHERE this year....I had even gotten the damn Flu shot in the Fall.


----------



## GordoJones88

CarpentryHero said:


> How does it a achieve a one year run time in its ultra low mode when it's wired like three sc600's taped together?



Somebody is gonna have to test it. Better start now.


----------



## CarpentryHero

I got the flushot too, been sick twice since. 

If an led comes on for every battery you put in, my conclusion was they were all indepentantly driven
(which makes sence as that's how you can use different 18650's) 
The circuit is more advanced than I thought (after reading the last couple pages I guessed wrong?)


----------



## CarpentryHero

So the s6330
Low
L1 5.7Lm (26 days) or
L2 1.9Lm (11 weeks) / 0.43Lm (7 months) / 0.09Lm (1 year)
Sc600
Low: L1 2.8Lm (280hrs) or L2 0.1Lm (80days)

80 x 3 batteries = 240 days, so is it that batteries have higher volume that make up the difference? 


I don't want to wait for a runtime test before I buy one :naughty:


----------



## g.p.

The low on the 6330 is lower than the sc600, and should therefore use less power.


----------



## CarpentryHero

By .01 of a lumen according to the specs I posted .09 and .1


----------



## magnum70383

Any night shots yet? com on com on!  

Compare it to the TK75 as well please!


----------



## pano_maker

Is a holster included with the light? Thanks.


----------



## TEEJ

pano_maker said:


> Is a holster included with the light? Thanks.





davpet said:


> Hi,
> 
> So, how do I reset it? My light came without anything else in the box. *No holster, lanyard, instructions*.
> There was only an invoice that states that the value of the light is 20 dollars! The company name is Shanghai Akernar Tech CO., LTD. I guess they are doing this to avoid customs.



It LOOKS like its just the light in a box with an invoice for $20.


----------



## carl

Firstly, a big thanks to davpet and dra90n for all the pictures! Its what all of us have been waiting for!

Just one comment - I can't help but wonder how long its going to take ZL to realize that a light of this weight and size should have included a protruding stainless bezel ring - in no time flat owners are going to complain about having sizeable dings and dents on the front rim.


----------



## GordoJones88

carl said:


> I can't help but wonder how long its going to take ZL to realize that a light of this weight and size should have included a protruding stainless bezel ring - in no time flat owners are going to complain about having sizeable dings and dents on the front rim.


 
It appears to have something of some sort.


----------



## don.gwapo

Thanks for the pics.

The SIZE compared to the TM11 is what I'm SOLD and the lower outputs. 

Don't mind if more or less bright than the TM11, just look at the SIZE... .


----------



## StarHalo

carl said:


> I can't help but wonder how long its going to take ZL to realize that a light of this weight and size should have included a protruding stainless bezel ring - in no time flat owners are going to complain about having sizeable dings and dents on the front rim.



Zebralights don't have traditional bezels; most have stainless retaining rings, yes, but the nose is always body material.


----------



## carl

StarHalo said:


> Zebralights don't have traditional bezels; most have stainless retaining rings, yes, but the nose is always body material.



With their previous small and very lightweight models, their tradition wasn't a problem but with their latest intro into bigger heavier models.....


----------



## carl

This picture caused me to wonder about no protruding stainless bezel. 

Of course, our philosophy here at CPF is that if we happen to drop our lights from a distance, they just need to work afterwards - they don't need to look good


----------



## g.p.

CarpentryHero said:


> By .01 of a lumen according to the specs I posted .09 and .1


Doesn't sound like much, but I'm sure it adds up over a year. 

Also, are all three LEDs on at that level? If so, perhaps it is much more efficient to have three LEDs at .03 each VS one at .1?


----------



## g.p.

carl said:


> Just one comment - I can't help but wonder how long its going to take ZL to realize that a light of this weight and size should have included a protruding stainless bezel ring - in no time flat owners are going to complain about having sizeable dings and dents on the front rim.


They're TOOLS, not JEWELS!!!

:nana:


----------



## xed888

Size comparison to sky ray king?


----------



## moozooh

CarpentryHero said:


> 80 x 3 batteries = 240 days, so is it that batteries have higher volume that make up the difference?



Lots of reasons.

1. Better driver. ZL's circuits have become more efficient since the release of SC600, as was reflected by H502's runtimes and by the upcoming SC600 mk2's runtimes.

2. Better LEDs. The figures for SC600 are valid for XM-L T6, while S6330 was tested with XM-L U2 which is ~7% more efficient.

3. Better batteries used for testing. SC600 runtimes were tested on 2900 mAh Panasonic batteries, while S6330 was tested on 3100 mAh, ~7% more capacity.

4. LEDs efficiency generally increases at lower drive levels, so three LEDs producing 300 lm each will always consume less energy than one doing 900 lm. In S6330, the three LEDs produce 0.03 lm each, while in SC600 it's one LED producing 0.1 lm. For instance, the efficiency of XM-L U2 should be 152 lm/W at 1.6 watts, but may reach 161 lm/W at 0.8 watts, 165 lm/W at 0.4 watts, and over 170 lm/W at lower drive levels at the same junction temperature. The increase in efficiency is also twofold since output decreases with the rise of junction temperature, so the less power is fed to the LED, the cooler it is, and the brighter it shines.

What seems to be a couple percent' worth of difference translates into days on sublumen modes. Even if any of those four reasons contributed 7% each on average—which shouldn't be too far from truth—it would stack up to 31% better efficiency overall ("240 days" would thus become 314). H502 is claimed to run for three months off an eneloop. S6330 was tested on a battery pack with 3 times the voltage and 14 times the total amount of energy, so its claims should be no less believable.


----------



## davpet

twl said:


> Thanks.
> After spending a little time looking over HKJ's battery tests, I haven't seen any 18650 that couldn't put out 3 amps with a full charge.
> Those Cytac 3100 would have to be extraordinarily pathetic to not be able to produce even 1c discharge rate.



I've also tested the light with the blue Cytac 2600s. If I remember correctly they were included in one of HKJ's 18650 tests, with good results. In my light they perform just like the 3100s. I will try to buy different kinds today and repeat the test. Cytac was recommended at the local hunters' shop where I purchased the TM11. They were around $17 a piece...


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> I've also tested the light with the blue Cytac 2600s. If I remember correctly they were included in one of HKJ's 18650 tests, with good results. In my light they perform just like the 3100s. I will try to buy different kinds today and repeat the test. Cytac was recommended at the local hunters' shop where I purchased the TM11. They were around $17 a piece...



Don't think you need to. I'm just thinking that it'd be annoying if lumens were less than stated.


----------



## Matjazz

moozooh said:


> 4. LEDs efficiency generally increases at lower drive levels, so three LEDs producing 300 lm each will always consume less energy than one doing 900 lm. In S6330, the three LEDs produce 0.03 lm each, while in SC600 it's one LED producing 0.1 lm. For instance, the efficiency of XM-L U2 should be 152 lm/W at 1.6 watts, but may reach 161 lm/W at 0.8 watts, 165 lm/W at 0.4 watts, and over 170 lm/W at lower drive levels at the same junction temperature. The increase in efficiency is also twofold since output decreases with the rise of junction temperature, so the less power is fed to the LED, the cooler it is, and the brighter it shines.



Leds have best efficiency at certain current. Below or above that current efficiency drops. I believe that the "old" xml has best efficiency at 0,2-0,3A. I also did math for H600F run times which proves that ultra low mode is very inefficient.


----------



## moozooh

Matjazz said:


> I also did math for H600F run times which proves that ultra low mode is very inefficient.



While it's true that LEDs have a peak efficiency point, it's not so clear cut. You did math for a certain combination of LED flux bin, lens clarity, DC-DC conversion efficiency, battery self-discharge and voltage sag. But you can't reuse the results for a completely different combination of variables.

By "lumen-hour" math, looking at S6330 specs, we can see that it gives off 4400 lmh at 400 lm setting, 4160 lmh at 260 lm setting, and 4650 lmh at 75 lm setting. This is a weird nonlinear 95%-89%-100% sequence. That efficiency dip around 260 lm couldn't have been caused by the LEDs; XM-Ls peak out at around 0.1 A, so by themselves they should have been significantly more efficient at that current compared to 400 lm. Similarly, SC52 has a dip at 25 lm setting. This just proves driver's own efficiency isn't linear and has a significant say in overall efficiency. It might be optimized for certain loads enough to reach particular runtimes, although it does surprise me that dips happen on M1 rather than M2 or any other secondary mode.

You might indeed be right that one LED at 0.1 lm might be as (or more) efficient as three LEDs at 0.03 lm, but all efficiency concerns combined it could very well work out in favor of that particular setting anyway.


----------



## davpet

xed888 said:


> Don't think you need to. I'm just thinking that it'd be annoying if lumens were less than stated.



Still.. I can't help but think what if all my 18650s suck. Actually, does this light need protected cells at all? It's not stated anywhere. If it really has the u3 bins, and if it really draws 3a/emitter, it should be at least as bright as the TM11. Ok, it should be brighter.


----------



## CarpentryHero

Should be brighter, definitely floodier. I don't think a ceiling bounce test tells us what a light sphere will.


----------



## Yourfun2

With a regulated light, buying new batteries isn't going to change the brightness. If the TM11 throws farther, has more flood, appears brighter and reads higher with a ceiling bounce. Then you either have a defective light or the S6330 doesn't measure up to expectations. We need to hear from more people and see more comparison beam shots.


----------



## xed888

Deleted


----------



## Globi23

xed888 said:


> I think ceiling bounce is a good way to compare brightness. Using a Luxmeter obviously.


if you make sure that the beams have more or less the same size at the ceiling!
For example the TM11 should be hold/or put higher because its so floody
And dont put the sensor in the center of the room, because if you do, your results are not comparable, if one torch has a much brighter spot which shines back directly on the sensor...


----------



## GeoBruin

You are exactly right. Using a ceiling bounce test is as much an art as a science. I can make my Hound Dog XM-L read MUCH higher than my Zebralight SC600 in a ceiling bounce test if I'm aiming the lights straight up at the ceiling with the light placed anywhere near the meter. I actually think I get better readings by turning the meter upside down and suspending it above the table. Then I'm measuring the light reflected off the ceiling and then again off the table. 




Globi23 said:


> if you make sure that the beams have more or less the same size at the ceiling!
> For example the TM11 should be hold/or put higher because its so floody
> And dont put the sensor in the center of the room, because if you do, your results are not comparable, if one torch has a much brighter spot which shines back directly on the sensor...


----------



## Globi23

take two piece of the same paper, make sure they fit on the torches lenses so that no light is emittingon the side, put them on, like diffusors ^^ 



GeoBruin said:


> I actually think I get better readings by turning the meter upside down and suspending it above the table. Then I'm measuring the light reflected off the ceiling and then again off the table.



well that seems to do the job, as long as you keep enough distance between torch and meter (horizontal)


----------



## dra90n

Not sure of the accurate terminology here so bear with me 

I've discovered an interesting issue with the points of contact for the battery. The end closest to the emitters have a spring which is fine. The other end has 3 circular rings soldered on which as I found doesn't make a perfect connection with the positive 'raised button' of Xtar batteries. I thought my torch was faulty but as it turns out, my AW batteries which have a wider flattened button make a good connection.

The Xtar 'raised button' radius is a bit too small to make a solid connection to the positive side of the torch.







AW left, Xtar right


----------



## davpet

GeoBruin said:


> You are exactly right. Using a ceiling bounce test is as much an art as a science. I can make my Hound Dog XM-L read MUCH higher than my Zebralight SC600 in a ceiling bounce test if I'm aiming the lights straight up at the ceiling with the light placed anywhere near the meter. I actually think I get better readings by turning the meter upside down and suspending it above the table. Then I'm measuring the light reflected off the ceiling and then again off the table.



Yes, actually ceiling bounce test is really hard to do correctly. Maybe the only option is to measure the light's other levels, and assume that the manufacturer gave correct figures there. Then when comparing it to an other light, find a level that according to manufacturer specs has the same brightness as the first light. If these two sub levels measure the same on a ceiling bounce test, than on turbo, the higher specd. light should measure higher lux. Of course, manufacturers could be way off with their brightness figures on lower levels. 

I've also noticed that even moving the light and/or the lux meter a millimeter will change the lux readings. So yes, it may very well be that the S6330 is brighter than the TM11.

Subwoofer has a review on the TM11's newest version, and according to his measurements the output is over 2400 lumens. I am only saying this because if we assume that the S6330 is around 2700 lumens with the new u3s, and the TM11 is 2000, it would not be too hard to see even with a naked eye ceiling bounce test that the Zebra is brighter. I don't see a noticeable difference between them, so I assume that their light output is really close. Of course all this could also mean that my TM11 is over-, or that my S6330 is under-performing.


----------



## Fireclaw18

davpet said:


> Yes, actually ceiling bounce test is really hard to do correctly. Maybe the only option is to measure the light's other levels, and assume that the manufacturer gave correct figures there. Then when comparing it to an other light, find a level that according to manufacturer specs has the same brightness as the first light. If these two sub levels measure the same on a ceiling bounce test, than on turbo, the higher specd. light should measure higher lux. Of course, manufacturers could be way off with their brightness figures on lower levels.
> 
> I've also noticed that even moving the light and/or the lux meter a millimeter will change the lux readings. So yes, it may very well be that the S6330 is brighter than the TM11.
> 
> Subwoofer has a review on the TM11's newest version, and according to his measurements the output is over 2400 lumens. I am only saying this because if we assume that the S6330 is around 2700 lumens with the new u3s, and the TM11 is 2000, it would not be too hard to see even with a naked eye ceiling bounce test that the Zebra is brighter. I don't see a noticeable difference between them, so I assume that their light output is really close. Of course all this could also mean that my TM11 is over-, or that my S6330 is under-performing.



I thought the general rule of thumb was you needed at least a 20% increase in lumens to see a noticeable difference with a ceiling bounce test. Going from 2400 to 2700 is far less than 20%. It might not be noticeable to the eye.


----------



## carl

dra90n said:


> Nitecore TM15, s6330, SC600w



This picture (with what looks like someone's warm 'nighty socks' - LOL!) shows the power button real well - it looks like the same power button as the SC600. Some here had previously complained that ZL made the SC600 button too stiff in trying to prevent accidental activation.

1) Is the power button the same as the SC600?
2) In your subjective opinion, does the power button require too much of a hard press? Or is it just right?
3) dra90n, where did you get the glow bands shown on the SC600?
thanks


----------



## davpet

Fireclaw18 said:


> I thought the general rule of thumb was you needed at least a 20% increase in lumens to see a noticeable difference with a ceiling bounce test. Going from 2400 to 2700 is far less than 20%. It might not be noticeable to the eye.



Yes yes, that's what I'm saying. I assume that I would notice the difference if the Nitecore was 2000 and the Zebra was 2700 lumens. Since they appear to be very similar, I guess they are less than 700 lumens apart.


----------



## TMCGLASSON36

Just got my shipping notice from CellGuy a few hours ago. Hopefully it will be here on monday. The pics have me all excited.:twothumbs


----------



## zip

TMCGLASSON36 said:


> Just got my shipping notice from CellGuy a few hours ago. Hopefully it will be here on monday. The pics have me all excited.:twothumbs



I'm happy for you.

Mine is stuck in Customs... I understand though. It is an Instrument of Mass Illumination after all


----------



## keenism

Killer post moozooh.

btw, are the battery rods centered at each led? I was wondering if they were trying to use heatpipes to draw heat to the back of the light but being so close to the batteries and ending so oddly threw a cog in that idea, can someone do some dingin' and let us know if they're hollow or not?


----------



## lightliker

Simple thought: take 3 cirquits of the sc600's in one housing and electronically connect the three switch-connections of each regulator to one switch. Sounds and is also simple :ironic: 


CarpentryHero said:


> I got the flushot too, been sick twice since.
> 
> If an led comes on for every battery you put in, my conclusion was they were all indepentantly driven
> (which makes sence as that's how you can use different 18650's)
> The circuit is more advanced than I thought (after reading the last couple pages I guessed wrong?)


----------



## redorblack

TMCGLASSON36 said:


> Just got my shipping notice from CellGuy a few hours ago. Hopefully it will be here on monday. The pics have me all excited.:twothumbs



Got my shipping notice also. Wonder if that means it is actually on it's way or if he's sent in the info to the postal system for pickup. 

That would be pretty awesome if it actually got here that quick, I was figuring it was weeks to a month away. Could have used a light this bright on my recumbent trike yesterday when I hit a section of flooded road in the dark at about 30mph and suddenly found myself in freezing water up to my lap. Full raingear did what it could do, but a drysuit would have been needed to stop me from getting soaked from that splashdown. My 1 watt strobing bike light couldn't cut through the rain and lights of oncoming traffic.

Scott


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> Yes, actually ceiling bounce test is really hard to do correctly. Maybe the only option is to measure the light's other levels, and assume that the manufacturer gave correct figures there. Then when comparing it to an other light, find a level that according to manufacturer specs has the same brightness as the first light. If these two sub levels measure the same on a ceiling bounce test, than on turbo, the higher specd. light should measure higher lux. Of course, manufacturers could be way off with their brightness figures on lower levels.
> 
> I've also noticed that even moving the light and/or the lux meter a millimeter will change the lux readings. So yes, it may very well be that the S6330 is brighter than the TM11.
> 
> Subwoofer has a review on the* TM11's newest version*, and according to his measurements the output is* over 2400 lumens*. I am only saying this because if we assume that the S6330 is around 2700 lumens with the new u3s, and the TM11 is 2000, it would not be too hard to see even with a naked eye ceiling bounce test that the Zebra is brighter. I don't see a noticeable difference between them, so I assume that their light output is really close. Of course all this could also mean that my TM11 is over-, or that my S6330 is under-performing.



this would correlate with your TM11 and TM15 having the same ceiling bounce lux then but still place the S6330 less than 2400 lumens. I hope more members chime in with their lumens measurements


----------



## twl

Looking at Davpet's wall photos, the TM11 looks brighter to me, by eye.


----------



## xed888

twl said:


> Looking at Davpet's wall photos, the TM11 looks brighter to me, by eye.



I keep hoping he made a mistake (sorry davpet) and that the S6330 is actually much brighter but I suppose I better come to terms with it. bloody disappointing though


----------



## dra90n

carl said:


> This picture (with what looks like someone's warm 'nighty socks' - LOL!) shows the power button real well - it looks like the same power button as the SC600. Some here had previously complained that ZL made the SC600 button too stiff in trying to prevent accidental activation.
> 
> 1) Is the power button the same as the SC600?
> 2) In your subjective opinion, does the power button require too much of a hard press? Or is it just right?
> 3) dra90n, where did you get the glow bands shown on the SC600?
> thanks



Hey don't knock the socks! Lol 

To answer your questions though, the power button whilst it looks the same as my SC600w, it has a softer click (best way to describe it). And as such, requires less effort required to press. Doesn't bother me either actually so 'it's just right' 

The glow bands were from dx dot com. You should find them if you search for 'glow'.i did get both the sc600w and glow bands a while ago though!


----------



## dra90n

keenism said:


> Killer post moozooh.
> 
> btw, are the battery rods centered at each led? I was wondering if they were trying to use heatpipes to draw heat to the back of the light but being so close to the batteries and ending so oddly threw a cog in that idea, can someone do some dingin' and let us know if they're hollow or not?



The rods are centred between each Led and I suspect the wire from each individual positive feeds through it. The rods sound like they're quite thick rather than being thin, but they are hollow


----------



## xed888

Are you able to comment on the brightness, dragon since you have both S6330 and TM15?


----------



## maxrep12

When Selfbuilt reviewed the sc600, he confirmed the ZL's stated lumens.

With the s6330 having xml-u3 emitters, the lumen rating is most likely understated at 2400. In fact, I believe ZL is going to relist the lumen specs to a higher number shortly. 

For those who are looking at a TM11, now is a great time to "get going" and buy one as they are being discounted to $141.


----------



## juplin

dra90n said:


> Hey don't knock the socks! Lol
> 
> To answer your questions though, the power button whilst it looks the same as my SC600w, it has a softer click (best way to describe it). And as such, requires less effort required to press. Doesn't bother me either actually so 'it's just right'


Thanks for the information. I prefer softer button to stiffer one. 
With softer button that's good for health of the thumb, the switch can still be locked out by turning the tube, while you can do nothing to the stiffer button.


----------



## StandardBattery

We need a few more beam shots! I have to agree with other who have stated that the size really seems amazing when you see it next to the Nitecore and even the SC600. I have the TM15 so I'm waiting a little while on this one. The TM15 is really just amazing... I'm still kind of shocked every time I hit turbo on it. I just can't describe it, it seems quite remarkable, even unbelievable, to me. I do really hate the UI though, and the faulty lockout. Since i've seen the TM15 the S6330 may not have the same shock value, but It just may being of such a small size. My SC600 and SC600w still make me smile at least.


----------



## tonkem

redorblack said:


> Got my shipping notice also. Wonder if that means it is actually on it's way or if he's sent in the info to the postal system for pickup.
> 
> That would be pretty awesome if it actually got here that quick, I was figuring it was weeks to a month away. Could have used a light this bright on my recumbent trike yesterday when I hit a section of flooded road in the dark at about 30mph and suddenly found myself in freezing water up to my lap. Full raingear did what it could do, but a drysuit would have been needed to stop me from getting soaked from that splashdown. My 1 watt strobing bike light couldn't cut through the rain and lights of oncoming traffic.
> 
> Scott



I got my notice, and says it will be here by this Saturday. I also have a recumbent, Catrike speed, and I use the Lupine wilma tl or Betty tl when I ride a night  Never been waist up in water in it though...


----------



## g.p.

juplin said:


> ...the switch can still be locked out by turning the tube...


Not on the 6330 though.


----------



## juplin

g.p. said:


> Not on the 6330 though.


I forget :naughty:
Hope it will apply to SC600 MKII .


----------



## TMCGLASSON36

redorblack said:


> Got my shipping notice also. Wonder if that means it is actually on it's way or if he's sent in the info to the postal system for pickup.
> 
> That would be pretty awesome if it actually got here that quick, I was figuring it was weeks to a month away. Could have used a light this bright on my recumbent trike yesterday when I hit a section of flooded road in the dark at about 30mph and suddenly found myself in freezing water up to my lap. Full raingear did what it could do, but a drysuit would have been needed to stop me from getting soaked from that splashdown. My 1 watt strobing bike light couldn't cut through the rain and lights of oncoming traffic.
> 
> Scott



Just tracked the package will be delivered saturday.


----------



## carl

dra90n said:


> Hey don't knock the socks! Lol
> 
> To answer your questions though, the power button whilst it looks the same as my SC600w, it has a softer click (best way to describe it). And as such, requires less effort required to press. Doesn't bother me either actually so 'it's just right'
> 
> The glow bands were from dx dot com. You should find them if you search for 'glow'.i did get both the sc600w and glow bands a while ago though!



dra90n - thanks. And that's good news about the button!


----------



## maxrep12

Mine is landing on Saturday as well. Oh, and of course three powder blue/seafoam green 18650's. 

Whenever I get a new Zebra I am always surprised at how very tiny they are. Economy of size!


----------



## davpet

xed888 said:


> I keep hoping he made a mistake (sorry davpet) and that the S6330 is actually much brighter but I suppose I better come to terms with it. bloody disappointing though



The hotspot looks brighter on my TM11, but overall the Zebra is very bright. Everyone will see that once it's in your hands, it wouldn't matter if it's 2200 or 2700 lumens, because it's so small. And that alone makes it much cooler than the TMs.


----------



## GordoJones88

I think the biggest advantage the Zebralight has over the competition is that it is just so darn cute!


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> The* hotspot looks brighter on my TM11*, but overall the Zebra is very bright. Everyone will see that once it's in your hands, it wouldn't matter if it's 2200 or 2700 lumens, because it's so small. And that alone makes it much cooler than the TMs.



I dont doubt that because TM11 has more throw (lux) which is fine for me. I am just wondering about total overall output (lumens)


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> The hotspot looks brighter on my TM11, but overall the Zebra is very bright. Everyone will see that once it's in your hands, it wouldn't matter if it's 2200 or 2700 lumens, because it's so small. And that alone makes it much cooler than the TMs.


Manufacturing a large light is quite simple. Having a large light on or near your person is not as easy thing to do, unless you want to look like your day job as mall security has spilled over into your personal life.

Producing a powerful and useful small light, however, is an engineering accomplishment. Economy of size does determine in a very real way, how often you will have access to your light. I have no interest in looking like the Sharper Image gadget guy, or the overzealous volunteer fireman with accompanying tool belt. The s6330 is something that can be put in a jacket pocket without drawing attention to yourself, or can be used for the nightly dog walk effortlessy. It can be thrown in your vehicles cup holder. Economy of size is everything.

I have a 5D maglite. That nonsense has been over and done with almost as soon as it started many years ago!


----------



## Zenbaas

Are there still no outdoor beamshots posted anywhere...?


----------



## xed888

Zenbaas said:


> Are there still no outdoor beamshots posted anywhere...?



http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zl-6330-a.html


----------



## redorblack

tonkem said:


> I got my notice, and says it will be here by this Saturday. I also have a recumbent, Catrike speed, and I use the Lupine wilma tl or Betty tl when I ride a night  Never been waist up in water in it though...



Mine says Saturday as well.. sweet. My trikes are the Greenspeed GTO, I also run a couple of Rans recumbents and some old school road bikes.


----------



## moozooh

To those who think their S6330 may be underperforming: don't forget it's a temperature-controlled light. Its performance should increase the cooler it is.


----------



## twl

It's the middle of winter now.
Just saying.


----------



## Yourfun2

Optimum performance would be in the meat locker.


----------



## KeeblerElf

twl said:


> It's the middle of winter now.
> Just saying.



Keep in mind the fellow CPFers in the southern hemisphere - it's not winter everywhere.


----------



## TEEJ

KeeblerElf said:


> Keep in mind the fellow CPFers in the southern hemisphere - it's not winter everywhere.



BUT


Winter is coming.


----------



## maxrep12

xed888 said:


> http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zl-6330-a.html



Thanks for the link. Also check out page 3:

http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330-3.html

I hope someone applied sunscreen to the poor little lamb.


----------



## xed888

maxrep12 said:


> Thanks for the link. Also check out page 3:
> 
> http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330-3.html
> 
> I hope someone applied sunscreen to the poor little lamb.



They tested 1950 lumens shortly after switching on. Disappointing..... 

I raised the issue with ZL but they have yet to reply/comment. There I was, thinking the U3's will boost output....


----------



## Leoht

I received my 6330 in the mail yesterday.









Here is a really rough beam shot taken hand held with my iPhone.



The ambient temperature was 31 degrees Celsius, the little zebra gets hot quick!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


----------



## GordoJones88

Finally a beamshot.
Moar!


----------



## maxrep12

xed888 said:


> They tested 1950 lumens shortly after switching on. Disappointing.....
> 
> I raised the issue with ZL but they have yet to reply/comment. There I was, thinking the U3's will boost output....


I think we have established that ceiling bounce lux tests, which is what was performed, are not that accurate, especially when it comes to lights that have larger hot spots like the s6330.


----------



## davpet

Brief translation of a post from http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330-3.html

"We have in the ceiling bounce test, a pulse output of 1,950 lumens (only briefly after switching on) and an effective maximum output of 1,850 lumens determined, slowly falling to 1,750 lumens."

Today I bought a new lux meter, and the above statement seems to support my findings: no matter what setup I used (I even tried covering the lights with a piece of paper), the TM11 and TM15 always measured higher on the lux meter. The room temperature was 21.5 celsius.

I've also tried, if the Zebra would step down if left on turbo without cooling for 4 minutes. 

The results: (I put the lux meter closer to the light, this is just for relative comparison)


5 seconds
1366
1 min.
1281
2 min.
1247
3 min.
1216
4 min.
1165


I didn't want to leave it on any longer. The light was very hot when I switched it off.


----------



## maxrep12

Leoht said:


> I received my 6330 in the mail yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a really rough beam shot taken hand held with my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> The ambient temperature was 31 degrees Celsius, the little zebra gets hot quick!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


 Nice pics.

That outdoor shot was great. Way to light up your surroundings! Tunnel vision is such a waste.


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> Brief translation of a post from http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330-3.html
> 
> 
> Today I bought a new lux meter, and the above statement seems to support my findings: no matter what setup I used (I even tried covering the lights with a piece of paper), the TM11 and TM15 always measured higher on the lux meter. The room temperature was 21.5 celsius.



The logic of the problem still remains the same. Using a different lux meter does not alleviate the crux of the issue testing here, nor does using paper as a diffuser. The end result is always the same; the TM11 and TM15 have more concentrated beams, diffused or not. The lux meter is not a light box, and the s6330 is a floody light, which I very much prefer from a practical use standpoint.


----------



## Yourfun2

I believe those numbers were for comparison with the other lights. Not meant to be out the front. So far this light is not as bright as the Nitecore and gets hot quickly. That is about all that has been established. Looks like we have a hot potato on our hands.


----------



## maxrep12

Yourfun2 said:


> I believe those numbers were for comparison with the other lights. Not meant to be out the front. So far this light is not as bright as the Nitecore and gets hot quickly. That is about all that has been established. Looks like we have a hot potato on our hands.



The s6330 may get hot quickly. This can come from efficient thermal transfer. 

What has not been established is overall brightness(lumens). A lux meter's readings favor narrow beams even when bounced.


----------



## Yourfun2

The TM11 is a very floody light, has bigger fins and can get pretty hot. The 6330 is a lot smaller so I suspect it won't do well on turbo, especially in a tail stand. Several people have received their lights. I'm surprised by their silence. I guess they are out enjoying their light.


----------



## LEDburn

Yourfun2 said:


> I believe those numbers were for comparison with the other lights. Not meant to be out the front. So far this light is not as bright as the Nitecore and gets hot quickly. That is about all that has been established. Looks like we have a hot potato on our hands.



Congratulations for contributing some more misconceived conclusions due to no grasp of the physics behind testing illumination sources.
You said it yourself, the test in question was not intended for lumen measurement. 
What it was for was to highlight any apparent stepping down in output. It did just that.
So knowing it was not intended for out the front lumen measurement, how do you quantify the statement that you made? There was no numbers for comparison and even if there was, unless they come from an integrating sphere, they mean absolutely nothing.


----------



## davpet

Yes, those lux readings I posted are only to show the decrease in output per minute. Maybe I should have left it on for a longer time to see if there would be a more noticeable step down. I did the same test with the TM11, and at 4 minutes 20 seconds it decreased its output by almost 50%.

As for the light getting hot, I think that is to be expected. After 4-5 minutes, the TMs get hot too, so no big deal.

I still think the S6330 is the coolest 3 XM-L light yet.


----------



## xed888

LEDburn said:


> Congratulations for contributing some more misconceived conclusions due to no grasp of the physics behind testing illumination sources.
> You said it yourself, the test in question was not intended for lumen measurement.
> What it was for was to highlight any apparent stepping down in output. It did just that.
> So knowing it was not intended for out the front lumen measurement, how do you quantify the statement that you made? There was no numbers for comparison and even if there was, unless they come from an integrating sphere, they mean absolutely nothing.



At the end of the day, it still shows that the S6330 is weaker than the TM11 and that should not be the case. Am I wrong?


----------



## maxrep12

xed888 said:


> At the end of the day, it still shows that the S6330 is weaker than the TM11 and that should not be the case. Am I wrong?


Until both the TM11 and the s6330 are tested in an integrated sphere for total lumen output, your conclusion is without merit.


----------



## xed888

maxrep12 said:


> Until both the TM11 and the s6330 are tested in an integrated sphere for total lumen output, your conclusion is without merit.



i hope so. i want to be proved wrong!!!


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> I still think the S6330 is the coolest 3 XM-L light yet.


And I would have to heartily agree with you. Just to be clear, there are quite a few options out there for everyone. As I previously mentioned, the TM11 is on sale for $141. I found a great pre order deal on my s6330 and batteries over at the dealers corner.


----------



## maxrep12

xed888 said:


> i hope so. i want to be proved wrong!!!


When Selfbuilt reviewed the sc600, his determination was that ZL's lumen rating was spot on. With U3 emitters, there is no reason to believe that there is any sort of stretch with regards to the lumen claims for the s6330. 

If it makes you feel any better, ZL is actually going to be evaluating the lumen output based on the move to the U3 emitters and adjusting the rating upwards(my understanding).

My decision to purchase was based off of beam flood, form factor, output, UI, and fire fly modes. In terms of "lumen inches", this thing is a dragon slayer!


----------



## xed888

maxrep12 said:


> When Selfbuilt reviewed the sc600, his determination was that ZL's lumen rating was spot on. With U3 emitters, there is no reason to believe that there is any sort of stretch with regards to the lumen claims for the s6330.
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, ZL is actually going to be evaluating the lumen output based on the move to the U3 emitters and adjusting the rating upwards(my understanding).
> 
> My decision to purchase was based off of beam flood, form factor, output, UI, and fire fly modes. In terms of "lumen inches", this thing is a dragon slayer!



Pleased to hear that ZL's ratings are accurate! I am awaiting ZL's response with bated breath. Unfortunately, Im still at the 'no replacement for lumen' stage. slowly going over to tint snob stage though haha


----------



## davpet

maxrep12 said:


> The s6330 may get hot quickly. This can come from efficient thermal transfer.
> 
> What has not been established is overall brightness(lumens). A lux meter's readings favor narrow beams even when bounced.



The only interesting thing is that the TM15 never manages to beat the TM11 in my tests. Sometimes it even measures a few lux dimmer with the new lux meter. And the Zebra is always last. I'm trying to think of a setup that could be more accurate.. 

I was also wondering if the orange peel reflector decreases the output by a larger percentage than the smooth.


----------



## kreisl

davpet said:


> Brief translation of a post from http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330-3.html
> 
> "We have in the ceiling bounce test, a pulse output of 1,950 lumens (only briefly after switching on) and an effective maximum output of 1,850 lumens determined, slowly falling to 1,750 lumens."



+ 1

Basically the German review states that them folks measured *1700 lumens* while the torch is advertised with *2400 lumens*.

I trust the Germans, i dont necessarily trust Zebralight or selfbuilt lumens numbers sorry.

I do trust selfbuilt relative brightness graphs over the runtime .. but the table of estimated ANSI lumens, no thanks.


Wow. 1700 lumens. What a bummer!!
:tired:


----------



## xed888

kreisl said:


> + 1
> 
> Basically the German review states that them folks measured *1700 lumens* while the torch is advertised with *2400 lumens*.
> 
> I trust the Germans, i dont necessarily trust Zebralight or selfbuilt lumens numbers sorry.
> 
> I do trust selfbuilt relative brightness graphs over the runtime .. but the table of estimated ANSI lumens, no thanks.
> 
> 
> Wow. 1700 lumens. What a bummer!!
> :tired:



they used ceiling bounce comparisons which arent as accurate, supposedly. i hope both of us are wrong ;D


----------



## xed888

davpet said:


> The only interesting thing is that the TM15 never manages to beat the TM11 in my tests. Sometimes it even measures a few lux dimmer with the new lux meter. And the Zebra is always last. I'm trying to think of a setup that could be more accurate..
> 
> I was also wondering if the orange peel reflector decreases the output by a larger percentage than the smooth.



i suppose the only accurate setup would be an integrating sphere.


----------



## Yourfun2

LEDburn said:


> Congratulations for contributing some more misconceived conclusions due to no grasp of the physics behind testing illumination sources.
> You said it yourself, the test in question was not intended for lumen measurement.
> What it was for was to highlight any apparent stepping down in output. It did just that.
> So knowing it was not intended for out the front lumen measurement, how do you quantify the statement that you made? There was no numbers for comparison and even if there was, unless they come from an integrating sphere, they mean absolutely nothing.


I was referring to the German testing of the light.


----------



## davpet

What if I had three batteries in the light: one fully charged, one somewhat depleted, and one almost empty, and I clicked the button 4 times for battery charge information? Would one led blink four times, the other two or three times and the third one once??


----------



## maxrep12

kreisl said:


> ... Them folks ... I trust the Germans ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :tired:


Hanz and Franz, in their flat, with the wall bounce...

Kreisl, it appears you may be one of the few here, aside from the Germans, who do not understand the difference between an integrated sphere and a simple lux meter. Perhaps swing back through when you are up to speed.


----------



## xed888

maxrep12 said:


> Hanz and Franz, in their flat, with the wall bounce...
> 
> Kreisl, it appears you may be one of the few here, aside from the Germans, who do not understand the difference between an integrated sphere and a simple lux meter. Perhaps swing back through when you are up to speed.



Would you be able to perform a measurement on your S6330? Do you have an IS? it could settle all our questions.


----------



## TEEJ

xed888 said:


> Would you be able to perform a measurement on your S6330? Do you have an IS? it could settle all our questions.



The IS can be tens of thousands of dollars, or more, so, MOST of us DO NOT have one.


----------



## xed888

TEEJ said:


> The IS can be tens of thousands of dollars, or more, so, MOST of us DO NOT have one.





I have heard of homemade spheres which probably aren't as accurate but might just do the job


----------



## twl

xed888 said:


> I have heard of homemade spheres which probably aren't as accurate but might just do the job



There are some people right here on CPF who have home made integrating spheres.

The problem arises when the answer doesn't comport with certain desired expectations, and then the questions against the validity of the test start coming in.
Sort of just like is happening now.


Anybody who looks at Davpet's photos and the Taschenlampen photos and gifs can easily see what they are going to see in real life, and they can judge for themselves.


----------



## maxrep12

twl said:


> There are some people right here on CPF who have home made integrating spheres.


 "The Germans" in question are not numbered among them, and did not use an integrating sphere.



> The problem arises when the answer doesn't comport with certain desired expectations, and then the questions against the validity of the test start coming in.
> Sort of just like is happening now.


 Not so. The problem here is that the tools and methodology used, lack the fundamental ability to answer the question being asked(total lumen output). Clearly you are aware that a ceiling bounce does not cut it, no?




> Anybody who looks at Davpet's photos and the Taschenlampen photos and gifs can easily see what they are going to see in real life, and they can judge for themselves.


I have the s6330 and have judged for myself. Shall we make this interesting twl? Should Selfbuilt review the s6330 and find its total lumen output closer to the German bounce guestimate, I will purchase a surefire light and photograph it next to a piece of paper with my screen moniker written on it. If the lumen output is closer to Zebras claim, then you get to purchase a zebralight and take a similar photo. Be a sport and take me up on this?


----------



## TEEJ

He said he trusts the germans more than he trusts selfbuilt...so, he might not go for it.


----------



## twl

I don't bet.
The chips will fall as they may.
I'm not questioning any of the results that have come in. It all seems to fit together from the two different sources who have shown pictures. It's simply the available data at this time. I have no disparaging comments about any of the people who have taken these pictures and provided their test results.

I'm still waiting for any evidence that the light reaches its claimed output. I haven't seen any of that yet.
Maybe that is what we need to see. That's all it would take to set this entire matter to rest.


----------



## maxrep12

xed888 said:


> Would you be able to perform a measurement on your S6330? Do you have an IS? it could settle all our questions.


I have two spheres integrated into my skull!!! Ha ha.:twothumbs Seriously, this light is a beast. Zebras lumen rating has my blessing.


----------



## GordoJones88

maxrep12 said:


> Should Selfbuilt review the s6330 and find its total lumen output closer to the German bounce guestimate.



Selfbuilt has a homemade integrated sphere. However, he cannot fit any of the larger sized lights into his lightbox. He estimates those lights using a ceiling bounce test.

" "est" refers to estimates for lights that are too big to fit within my lightbox, based on comparison to ceiling bounce performance of known lights."

"As always, take my lumen estimates with a grain of salt - they are based on a calibration of my lightbox to ceiling bounce values of other heavy output lights of known calibrated lumens."

This is the same methodology as Davpet and "The Germans" are using. So their estimates should be quite similar in comparison.

Even if the S6330 does not have as many lumens as Zebralight is claiming, it is still incredibly small, bright, and cute.


----------



## davpet

I have repeated the test where I measure the decrease in output on max. At 21.2 celsius room temperature the output slowly decreased for 6 minutes, then it started climbing and falling. Output every minute, for 8 minutes: 91.4, 89.3, 87.7, 86, 81, 75.2, 77, 73.1. Sorry, these values differ from my other post, but I just put the light down on my desk and started the lux meter. The change in brightness is not noticeable, unlike the TM11, which (in this case) after 4:30, started to cycle between turbo and a lower level.

I've also tested the light's response to battery check if the charge levels were different. The leds blink differently. So if you want to be sure all three batteries are fully charged, you have to look at the leds directly during battery check...


----------



## redorblack

Well... I got mine, put a bit of a charge into the new zebralight 3100mah cells and fired that puppy up. It is dark outside and I have about a 200 foot lane I can compare lights on, down a 22' driveway with trees on the sides and end and a reflector at the end. With my SC60 (not 600)<aprox 280L) I barely reflect off the sign at the end, with the Malkoff Wildcat triple XML (ser#0300)<750L?> it lights up to the end dimly, with the S6330 with only one battery in and thus one LED on, it is much brighter at range than the Wildcat, with three batteries in it, it is pretty much daylight out to the sign, the fence, and the trees.

What camera settings would you all like for beam shots? I have a Panasonic DMC-FZ200 and can go full manual with whatever aperture (2.8-8.0), ISO, exposure you consider best for comparison.


----------



## juplin

If the output current can be measured at each battery, it may provide us some clues.
To do this, IMR18500 that can supply more than 3A current and a current meter that connected between IMR18500 and the battery carrier are necessary. Of course, a current meter that connected between 18650 and the battery carrier will also work, if a "shorter" 18650 is used.


----------



## redorblack

Did some comparisons outside across the street... it's freaking cold out there. I set the camera at 2.8 aperture, 1/100 second, iso 400 for the video. Looks much better on a computer screen than it did on the back of the camera. Enjoy...

http://youtu.be/ekTGDLX4Nxg I took some pictures as well prior to video, but they are RAW images, I'll have to convert them before putting them somewhere... I think the video does the job fine.


----------



## redorblack

Interesting factoid... + is down at the base, not up at the LED end of the light. It didn't care that I put the batteries in upside down first shot, just didn't turn on. Also, zero instructions with the light about modes or anything. Oh, and another thing... it is ridiculously bright compared to the headlights of the cars going by. If I use it as a bike lamp on the street I'll be running it on one of the lower levels. 

Oh, and the lanyard ring is just stupidly small for something this dense. This light has a lot of weight compared to most Zebralights. Consider my H51F weighs 2.2 ounces *with* an Eneloop cell in it, and my SC600 weighs 2.95 ounces without the cell. The S6330 is 10 ounces without the cells in it, so a 3.3x the weight of the SC600 even empty. The head feels like it weighs more than the Malkoff Wildcat, but it has the battery holder as part of that. The actual tube you spin off for access is very light as it isn't doing anything but providing protection for the cells and probably not much heatsinking. My SC60 almost depends on your hand to give a path for heat as it will get pretty damn hot if you just set it down rather than hold it. We'll see how this responds to holding vs. tail standing (which it should be awesome at as short and fat as it is.)

Scott


----------



## StarHalo

redorblack said:


> Oh, and the lanyard ring is just stupidly small for something this dense.



Bear in mind that a proper lanyard will break away if too much strain is placed on it - if the lanyard doesn't come off, your hand will..


----------



## StandardBattery

redorblack said:


> Did some comparisons outside across the street... it's freaking cold out there. I set the camera at 2.8 aperture, 1/100 second, iso 400 for the video. Looks much better on a computer screen than it did on the back of the camera. Enjoy...
> 
> http://youtu.be/ekTGDLX4Nxg I took some pictures as well prior to video, but they are RAW images, I'll have to convert them before putting them somewhere... I think the video does the job fine.


Thanks! Looks great.


----------



## xed888

GordoJones88 said:


> Selfbuilt has a homemade integrated sphere. However, he cannot fit any of the larger sized lights into his lightbox. He estimates those lights using a ceiling bounce test.
> 
> " "est" refers to estimates for lights that are too big to fit within my lightbox, based on comparison to ceiling bounce performance of known lights."
> 
> "As always, take my lumen estimates with a grain of salt - they are based on a calibration of my lightbox to ceiling bounce values of other heavy output lights of known calibrated lumens."
> 
> This is the same methodology as Davpet and "The Germans" are using. So their estimates should be quite similar in comparison.
> 
> Even if the S6330 does not have as many lumens as Zebralight is claiming, it is still incredibly small, bright, and cute.



Someone could send him a S6330 to test 

Maybe ZL will send him one. Anybody knows?


----------



## maxrep12

First impressions:

The machine work quality of the S6330 does not disappoint. The head and body appear to have more of a satin surface finish than the sc600 or sc52. The satin texture seams to result in a darker anodization treatment than the brushed finish of the sc600 and sc52. The brushed surface of the sc52 for example, appears to have a lighter and more translucent natural anodized surface. The knurling on the body is not quite as aggressive as the sc600. My preference leans towards very sharp knurling, though I may be in the minority here.

As many members have pointed out, each emitter can be run on its own with a single 18650. With the reflector dimensions matching the sc600, this light is essentially like having three sc600 lights rolled into a dense package. 

The beam profile is indeed smooth due to the multiple emitters with textured reflectors. The beam tint is absolutely great on high. As lower light levels are chosen, some hint of xml green can be seen, but not near as pronounced as the sc600. I was definitely pleased with the beam tint.

The light does get warm quick on high 1. Holding the light barehanded is not an issue, but you feel the horsepower. If I drop to a medium level directly from high 1 the unit cools down quickly. The cooling takes place in such a short period of time that I'm inclined to chalk it up to a pretty efficient thermal transfer from the emitters outwards to the head and cooling fins.


I was not quite prepared for the throw this little grenade produces outdoors. Since the S6330 is essentially like using multiple sc600's, I was anticipating some more distance with this unit, but not this much. Perhaps they bumped the power a bit with the upgraded xml-U3's. I'm guessing when Zebra updates the output with U3's it will be sitting at around 2700 lumens. As Redorblack mentioned in an earlier post, it is ridiculously bright.

Its a heavy chunk to be sure. It can be slipped in a jacket pocket without being visible, and can be plopped in a cupholder without tipping about since it is just a touch over 4 inches. Great economy of size. Man does it feel solid though. There is no doubt when you heft it that your gripping $200 worth of torch! Oh, and the button pressure is more relaxed than the sc600.

The main use this light experiences are long trail walks with the dog, and nightstand duty in firefly mode.

To summarize, I love the utility of the light, and its a real kick in the pants to walk in the woods and have all of your surroundings properly illuminated. Despite not being a thrower, it does tear it up at a distance.


----------



## tonkem

maxrep12 said:


> First impressions:
> 
> The machine work quality of the S6330 does not disappoint. The head and body appear to have more of a satin surface finish than the sc600 or sc52. The satin texture seams to result in a darker anodization treatment than the brushed finish of the sc600 and sc52. The brushed surface of the sc52 for example, appears to have a lighter and more translucent natural anodized surface. The knurling on the body is not quite as aggressive as the sc600. My preference leans towards very sharp knurling, though I may be in the minority here.
> 
> As many members have pointed out, each emitter can be run on its own with a single 18650. With the reflector dimensions matching the sc600, this light is essentially like having three sc600 lights rolled into a dense package.
> 
> The beam profile is indeed smooth due to the multiple emitters with textured reflectors. The beam tint is absolutely great on high. As lower light levels are chosen, some hint of xml green can be seen, but not near as pronounced as the sc600. I was definitely pleased with the beam tint.
> 
> The light does get warm quick on high 1. Holding the light barehanded is not an issue, but you feel the horsepower. If I drop to a medium level directly from high 1 the unit cools down quickly. The cooling takes place in such a short period of time that I'm inclined to chalk it up to a pretty efficient thermal transfer from the emitters outwards to the head and cooling fins.
> 
> 
> I was not quite prepared for the throw this little grenade produces outdoors. Since the S6330 is essentially like using multiple sc600's, I was anticipating some more distance with this unit, but not this much. Perhaps they bumped the power a bit with the upgraded xml-U3's. I'm guessing when Zebra updates the output with U3's it will be sitting at around 2700 lumens.
> 
> Its a heavy chunk to be sure. It can be slipped in a jacket pocket without being visible, and can be plopped in a cupholder without tipping about since it is just a touch over 4 inches. Great economy of size. Man does it feel solid though. There is no doubt when you heft it that your gripping $200 worth of torch! Oh, and the button pressure is more relaxed than the sc600.
> 
> The main use this light experiences are long trail walks with the dog, and nightstand duty in firefly mode.
> 
> To summarize, I love the utility of the light, and its a real kick in the pants to walk in the woods and have all of your surroundings properly illuminated. Despite it not being a thrower, it does light up visually at a distance.



Awesome, thanks for your first impressions. I will likely receive mine tomorrow, looks like it arrived late on Saturday to Dallas  I am sure I will love it....


----------



## scout24

I'm curious... bear with me.  Since this light has three seperate circuits if you will, and runs one emiter per cell, I'm wondering if it will run on one rcr123 with a dummy cell, just to power one emitter, on say, low and medium in an emergency? I would think a 3v primary and dummy cell would work as well, again only on low and maybe medium (powering one emitter), given the 2.7v low voltage cutoff? I'm sure this is not officially supported, and would make ZL engineers pull their hair out, I just wonder if it would work. If so, a whole new level of emergency use versatility...

Edit- not trying to distract from everyone's how-high-is-high-really lumens fest (though I'll admit I'm curious as well... :devil, but I do think this light has merit from a long runtime low level standpoint in regular battery configuration. As, seemingly, do most ZL's. Just trying to think outside the box. I'll bet the same setups may well work in the SC600, too, if they work in this light. I had a TM11 briefly, and this seems to appear about half the volume. Similar high level output would be stunning, higher would be almost scary...


----------



## TEEJ

I think you are correct...it takes a certain minimum amount of power to get an LED to light...but it sounds like this one could boost as needed. The concern might be overdrawing the capacity of the 123 cell. An IMR123 might be better in that case.

If kept on appropriately low draw light levels, its probably able to limp along of flex fuels.

Someone who HAS ONE, and a 123, should check it out for us.


----------



## davpet

I was wondering if there is a real difference between the S6330's IPX7 (2 meters, 30 minutes), and the Nitecore TM's IPX8 submersible to 2 meters specifications.


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> I was wondering if there is a real difference between the S6330's IPX7 (2 meters, 30 minutes), and the Nitecore TM's IPX8 submersible to 2 meters specifications.


Two meter submersion at 30 minutes( which is what both claim) is the ipx8 standard. Since ZL also calls this ipx7, I would error on the side of caution for the time being, that they may have meant one meter at 30 minutes(ipx7).


----------



## tonkem

Just got mine today. Just took the batteries off the charger and took it out in the backyard to compare to my Lupine Betty TL rated at 2600 lumens. The hotspot on the S6330 is tighter and will likely throw further than the Betty. I will take them both out for a walk to get more of an idea for distance, but looks like the Betty has a much larger hotspot. I will also compare to the Lupine Wilma TL that I have, that has a 16 degree beam. The S6330 is wider than the Betty and Wilma handle, but I like the knurling versus the Lupines. Too bad I bought this one for my son, to replace his Sc600. I may have to get me one later. Seems like the lanyard attachment was an after thought, and is very tiny for a light this size.


----------



## tonkem

Here are some photos with my other lights. 

In the photo with the S6330, is the Lupine Wilma TL, Lupine Betty TL-S, Zebralight Sc600 and Sc52, enjoy. I have a good camera, but not sure how to do the outdoor shots yet. Will look around and see what settings to use, and try to post vs the lights mentioned. 

Enjoy

Left to right, Betty TLS, Wilma TL, S6330, SC600, SC52





Betty TLS, S6330, Wilma TL




Betty TLS, S6330, Wilma TL




Betty TLS, S6330, Wilma TL




Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330




Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330




Betty TLS, S6330




Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330




Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330




Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330, SC600, Sc52





I mention my first impressions above in the prior post. I really like this light. Might have to pick one up for myself. 

Here are some amateur beamshots in the back yard with the above lights. All lights are on max output.

Contol





SC52 - 500 lumens using 14500





SC600 - 750 lumens





Lupine Wilma TL - 1100 lumens





Lupine Betty TLS - 2600 lumens





Zebralight S6330 - 2400 lumens





Hope you find them useful. The 6330 is a nice light going up against lights 2 to 3 times the price, in the Lupines 

The Wilma TL and S6330 both are more focused beams than the Betty, as it has a 26 degree beam.

Note about tint between the Betty and the S6330: the s6330 has a slight green tint, when compared directly to the Betty. The betty appears to have a warmer tint versus the S6330. It does not bother me a bit..... 

UPDATE: just took the Betty, wilma and S6330 for a walk. Some have mentioned here that the S6330 gets hot fast. I ran at full power for at least 15 minutes and noticed no difference in brightness and the light was only warm. The temperature was 32 deg with a wind chill to 26 deg, so maybe not a fair comparison. I also ran the Betty the full 15 mins and they were both warm, but not hot. I have taken the wilma and betty out when it was much warmer, over 90 deg at night, and they both get very hot when run on max output for more than 15 mins or so. 

Overall, I am very impressed with the Zebralight and it compares very nicely against the Betty TLS, being that the Betty is an $800 flashlight, it should be an easy choice for most  Get the Zebralight, if you want the most compact, highest power light, with LOW lows, that the Lupines cannot match, even for all they cost  

Another great light from Zebralight. The only issue I see is the lanyard attachment seems an afterthought, as I previously mentioned. Otherwise a Winner, I feel....

Thanks Zebralight!

UPDATE 2: ran all the lights. Zebra s6330, wilma tl and betty tls, and all lights get hot. After leaving on in the heated house at 72 degrees, both the betty and zebra would be uncomfortable to hold the head, but I saw no change in output on either light. I am used to hot potatoes, as I have had the wilma for over a year, and it is very hot when left on max. Both the Lupines and Zebralights are great lights. Cannot go wrong with either, just saving quite a bit getting the zebralight, although it is larger than both the lupines. 

Tony


----------



## biglights

Very nice. Some very nice pictures thanks for sharing!


----------



## magnum70383

Anybody with a TK75 vs S6330? hmmm....


----------



## carl

tonkem - great beamshots and comparisons to Lupines! thanks.


----------



## domx

Where can I get the Zebralight S6330 please?


----------



## TEEJ

domx said:


> Where can I get the Zebralight S6330 please?



Go to the CPF Marketplace, and search for it. You get discounts that way.


----------



## pano_maker

Can someone please post if Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah protected batteries fit the S6330. I just got some and they don't fit either the SC600 or the H600, but the 3100mah version does fit both these lights. 
[h=1][/h]Thank you.


----------



## zip

Zebralight Beam Shots






All on High w/fresh bats - Zebralight SC60, SC600, S6330 and an old Wolf Eyes Storm

Garage is about 75' away

SC60





SC600





S6330 - Thanks to Magnum70383, this pic was updated to a more accurate exposure.:thumbsup:






Wolf-Eyes Storm





My Camera was on auto exposure.

The S6330 is much brighter than shown above.


----------



## zip

AU 3400mah's fit with no problems


----------



## kolbasz

That's very dissapointing!

Sorry man, i borrowed your photos, and made a gif, and i must say, i was expecting much more performance from the S6330!

SC600 vs S6330 gif


----------



## xed888

so when is ZL going to update their lumens rating for the S6330? It's been a while now....


----------



## davpet

xed888 said:


> so when is ZL going to update their lumens rating for the S6330? It's been a while now....



If they test the lowest mode as well, it's gonna take at least a year for them to get the results..


----------



## twl

xed888 said:


> so when is ZL going to update their lumens rating for the S6330? It's been a while now....



I'm pretty sure that they already did that.
From what I'm reading, this light already has the U3 emitters in it.


----------



## xed888

twl said:


> I'm pretty sure that they already did that.
> From what I'm reading, this light already has the U3 emitters in it.



hmm fair point. 

I suppose I was alluding to this: "Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. *Specs will be updated later with data* from production samples."


----------



## twl

xed888 said:


> hmm fair point.
> 
> I suppose I was alluding to this: "Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. *Specs will be updated later with data* from production samples."



Oh, sorry. Yes, I see what you're saying now.
The numbers on the paper may need to change.


----------



## tonkem

kolbasz said:


> That's very dissapointing!
> 
> Sorry man, i borrowed your photos, and made a gif, and i must say, i was expecting much more performance from the S6330!
> 
> SC600 vs S6330 gif



Comparing to the Lupine Betty TLS, it is a monster of a light. I am very impressed with it. What kind of performance were you expecting?


----------



## xed888

tonkem said:


> Comparing to the Lupine Betty TLS, it is a monster of a light. I am very impressed with it. What kind of performance were you expecting?



I have seen other beamshots comparing S6330 and the SC600 and the S6330 is better by far. I reckon it's just how the photos are taken. Manual exposure? (I don't profess to be a photography guru, btw)


----------



## biglights

xed888 said:


> I have seen other beamshots comparing S6330 and the SC600 and the S6330 is better by far. I reckon it's just how the photos are taken. Manual exposure? (I don't profess to be a photography guru, btw)



Thanks for sharing the pictures. In person the S6330 just destroys the SC600 though. Not even close, I put it up to my TN30 and they are pretty darn close. Considering that the ZL is half the size that is quite a feat. The TN30 throws farther, but not by much. The Zl has a much nicer beam with no artifacts.


----------



## kolbasz

xed888 said:


> I have seen other beamshots comparing S6330 and the SC600 and the S6330 is better by far. I reckon it's just how the photos are taken. Manual exposure? (I don't profess to be a photography guru, btw)



Can you share with me these pictures, because i don't see as big difference as the others, or the poor quality of the pics above are cheating my eyes. The gif i made from zip's pics doesen't show much difference thats why i'm bit dissapointed.

If you say it burns the SC600, i believe it!


----------



## tonkem

kolbasz said:


> Can you share with me these pictures, because i don't see as big difference as the others, or the poor quality of the pics above are cheating my eyes. The gif i made from zip's pics doesen't show much difference thats why i'm bit dissapointed.
> 
> If you say it burns the SC600, i believe it!



Kolbasz, what about post 672? they are not professional pics for sure, but you can surely see the massive difference between the sc600 and the s6330. Even versus the betty TLS rated at 2600 lumens....


----------



## maxrep12

> If you say it burns the SC600, i believe it!


Purchased one of the first sc600 lights, and make no mistake, it is an extremely capable light, but my s6330 is in a whole other classification. 

It may be a bit more difficult to consistently catch contrasting brightness differences with online photos when dealing with more flood oriented beams. In person though, the differences are very clear.


----------



## xed888

kolbasz said:


> Can you share with me these pictures, because i don't see as big difference as the others, or the poor quality of the pics above are cheating my eyes. The gif i made from zip's pics doesen't show much difference thats why i'm bit dissapointed.
> 
> If you say it burns the SC600, i believe it!



http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/zebralight/21446-review-zebralight-s6330.html


----------



## zip

maxrep12 said:


> Purchased one of the first sc600 lights, and make no mistake, it is an extremely capable light, but my s6330 is in a whole other classification.
> 
> It may be a bit more difficult to consistently catch contrasting brightness differences with online photos when dealing with more flood oriented beams. In person though, the differences are very clear.



You're correct, the differences are very clear in person. The S6330 is much brighter.

My camera was set on (Auto) so it adjusted the exposure itself.


----------



## magnum70383

I just ordered this light from torchdirect after deciding months between the TK75 and this!


----------



## davpet

biglights said:


> Thanks for sharing the pictures. In person the S6330 just destroys the SC600 though. Not even close, I put it up to my TN30 and they are pretty darn close. Considering that the ZL is half the size that is quite a feat. The TN30 throws farther, but not by much. The Zl has a much nicer beam with no artifacts.



I agree, it's a great and powerful light, it has a nice beam, but it's not a good thrower: the TN30 throws a few meters further than the TM15, and they throw considerably further than the TM11, and what I see in person is that the TM11 throws further than the S6330.
Actually, my TM15's hotspot brightness on high (1300 lumens), is about equal to the S6330's on max.

I wonder if other manufacturers will react to this light, and start making 2-3000+ lumen torches this size.


----------



## g.p.

...

Nevermind, Zip addressed the issue already.


----------



## TEEJ

MOST people seem to be concerned with range, or total lumens...so lights with high lumen numbers do sell.

The niche for this light are those who want a wall of light, similar to the SC600 demographic. A flood of light closer up, at the expense of a narrower beam off in the distance, is typically more useful to most people, even if they don't know it. Many are used to sweeping a wee beam about trying to see what's out there as if they have to view their world through a paper towel tube.

They rationalize that some of those lights "have useful spill" so they can also see where they're going. Of course, that's the part that a flood light excels at...as the beam itself is lighting up what used to be the wee beam's dim spill, plus, the areas way out in front too, etc.

If they can make the powerful flood light's "pocketable" they will be a monster hit. The MAIN impediment to the super lights now, is the form factors. People tend to leave large lights behind. If you can slip a light into your pocket...you are MUCH more likely to HAVE it with you at any given time.


----------



## redorblack

kolbasz said:


> That's very dissapointing!
> 
> Sorry man, i borrowed your photos, and made a gif, and i must say, i was expecting much more performance from the S6330!
> 
> SC600 vs S6330 gif



The problkem isn't with the light, it's with the camera setup. He took the pictures on auto, so the camera was trying to expose the image 'properly', each image has it's own shutter speed rather than having images with the exact same settings which would allow a direct comparison.


----------



## TEEJ

redorblack said:


> The problkem isn't with the light, it's with the camera setup. He took the pictures on auto, so the camera was trying to expose the image 'properly', each image has it's own shutter speed rather than having images with the exact same settings which would allow a direct comparison.



Absolutely. You can make a candle look like a light house beacon if you expose the shot long enough.

On auto, that's what happens...it exposes a darker shot longer, to make it lighter. For a comparison, you MUST use manual settings to get apples and apples...otherwise, everything tends to look too similar.


----------



## maxrep12

TEEJ said:


> MOST people seem to be concerned with range, or total lumens...so lights with high lumen numbers do sell.
> 
> The niche for this light are those who want a wall of light, similar to the SC600 demographic. A flood of light closer up, at the expense of a narrower beam off in the distance, is typically more useful to most people, even if they don't know it. Many are used to sweeping a wee beam about trying to see what's out there as if they have to view their world through a paper towel tube.
> 
> They rationalize that some of those lights "have useful spill" so they can also see where they're going. Of course, that's the part that a flood light excels at...as the beam itself is lighting up what used to be the wee beam's dim spill, plus, the areas way out in front too, etc.
> 
> If they can make the powerful flood light's "pocketable" they will be a monster hit. The MAIN impediment to the super lights now, is the form factors. People tend to leave large lights behind. If you can slip a light into your pocket...you are MUCH more likely to HAVE it with you at any given time.



Economy of size combined with a more useful beam pattern, among other traits, has allowed ZL to continue to 'knock it out of the park" so to speak. The S6330 reveals that the Tiny Monsters are not that tiny after all.

The growing pains this market is experiencing at the moment, is the hesitation many light enthusiasts have in abandoning the previous metrics with which they traditionally judged lights, lux and throw distance. The market is evolving but it is a slow go to be clear.


----------



## christian gpr

*Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

Just me that have preordered directly from the Zebralight webpage and havn't even got a shipping notice yet?

Skickat från min MB525 via Tapatalk 2


----------



## neo_xeno

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

i ordered mine on the 6th from ZL's site and no update whatsoever


----------



## zip

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

Updated Zebralight Beam Shots.

Camera set on ISO - 100, Exposure - Zero
All lights on HIGH w/Fresh Batteries
Garage is about 75'

Zebralight-H30-SC60-SC600-S6330






H30





SC60





SC600





S6330




Thanks to Magnum70383, this pic was updated to a more accurate exposure.

The H30 almost looks like a control shot, but it is on high:candle:


----------



## maxrep12

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

I noticed the retailers in the marketplace(dealers corner) are waiting on their 2nd shipments. Zebra has them listed on backorder. Anybody have stock on these?


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*



zip said:


> Updated Zebralight Beam Shots.
> 
> Camera set on ISO - 100, Exposure - Zero
> ....



Sorry, but "Exposure - Zero" is really funny :thinking: ... it makes no sense. 

I think what you meant was Exposure Compensation - Zero

You need to list Exposure: ISO: 100 - Shutter Speed: ??? - Aperture: ???

Actually ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture (and Exposure Compensation for that matter) are not really important, the important part is that all these are LOCKED at some fixed value for all shots. 

According to the EXIF data on your images The exposure was different for the S6330 photo.

H30: 1s @ f/3.4 
SC60: 1s @ f/3.4 
SC600: 1s @ f/3.4 
S6330: 1/2s @ f/3.4 

So that means that the first 3 are comparable, but the S6330 should be twice as bright to have a true comparison.


----------



## magnum70383

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

Sorry, bought the last one from torchdirect! :nana:


maxrep12 said:


> I noticed the retailers in the marketplace(dealers corner) are waiting on their 2nd shipments. Zebra has them listed on backorder. Anybody have stock on these?




I see we have a fellow photographer here!  I was gonna say the same thing. The S6330 only took half a second to be THAT bright. I can't wait for my light to come!!!


StandardBattery said:


> Sorry, but "Exposure - Zero" is really funny :thinking: ... it makes no sense.
> 
> I think what you meant was Exposure Compensation - Zero
> 
> You need to list Exposure: ISO: 100 - Shutter Speed: ??? - Aperture: ???
> 
> Actually ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture (and Exposure Compensation for that matter) are not really important, the important part is that all these are LOCKED at some fixed value for all shots.
> 
> According to the EXIF data on your images The exposure was different for the S6330 photo.
> 
> H30: 1s @ f/3.4
> SC60: 1s @ f/3.4
> SC600: 1s @ f/3.4
> S6330: 1/2s @ f/3.4
> 
> So that means that the first 3 are comparable, but the S6330 should be twice as bright to have a true comparison.


----------



## zip

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*



StandardBattery said:


> Sorry, but "Exposure - Zero" is really funny :thinking: ... it makes no sense.
> 
> I think what you meant was Exposure Compensation - Zero
> 
> You need to list Exposure: ISO: 100 - Shutter Speed: ??? - Aperture: ???
> 
> Actually ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture (and Exposure Compensation for that matter) are not really important, the important part is that all these are LOCKED at some fixed value for all shots.
> 
> According to the EXIF data on your images The exposure was different for the S6330 photo.
> 
> H30: 1s @ f/3.4
> SC60: 1s @ f/3.4
> SC600: 1s @ f/3.4
> S6330: 1/2s @ f/3.4
> 
> So that means that the first 3 are comparable, but the S6330 should be twice as bright to have a true comparison.



Thanks for the Photography lesson.:thumbsup:

The Camera I used was a Canon Power Shot. (Discontinued of course)
I'm not sure it's capable of the settings you mentioned.
I'll have to check the manual.

Anyway I agree about the S6330 being twice as bright:twothumbs


----------



## magnum70383

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

Zip, I bumped up the photo AROUND 2x as bright  Was this what you actually saw?


----------



## zip

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*



magnum70383 said:


> Zip, I bumped up the photo AROUND 2x as bright  Was this what you actually saw?



YES! That's more like it

Thanks for fixing that.
I uploaded your pic to my updated post so a better comparison could be made.


----------



## magnum70383

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*

Ya no problem. Might not be exact, I still guessed the 2x exposure. ha ha But I guess it looks more like it?



zip said:


> YES! That's more like it
> 
> Thanks for fixing that.
> I uploaded your pic to my updated post so a better comparison could be made.


----------



## maxrep12

*Re: Sv: Zebralight S6330 and S6330b 2400 Lumen flashlights in the making. .*



magnum70383 said:


> Sorry, bought the last one from torchdirect! :nana:



Any other retailers have them in stock, or did you already check? Well, I guess if you bought an 6330 and it wasn't your cup of tea, now would be a good time to throw it up for sale at the marketplace. My brother has been asking about one.


----------



## kolbasz

zip said:


> You're correct, the differences are very clear in person. The S6330 is much brighter.
> 
> My camera was set on (Auto) so it adjusted the exposure itself.



OMG! 

so, THAT was misleading me!


----------



## druidmars

maxrep12 said:


> Economy of size combined with a more useful beam pattern, among other traits, has allowed ZL to continue to 'knock it out of the park" so to speak. The S6330 reveals that the Tiny Monsters are not that tiny after all.
> 
> The growing pains this market is experiencing at the moment, is the hesitation many light enthusiasts have in abandoning the previous metrics with which they traditionally judged lights, lux and throw distance. The market is evolving but it is a slow go to be clear.



Well said. After this baby (that just became #1 in my wish list), the Tiny Monsters are not tiny anymore being 6cm longer. With the light this baby puts out, for me, size is more important.


----------



## Lou Minescence

druidmars said:


> Well said. After this baby (that just became #1 in my wish list), the Tiny Monsters are not tiny anymore being 6cm longer. With the light this baby puts out, for me, size is more important.



I was looking at the Tiny Monster too. Smaller size and lower low outputs of the three eyed Zebra S6330 sold me on the Zebralight instead.


----------



## kolbasz

I have one question guys.

The specs says:



 H1 *2400*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 2 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) or 
 H2 *1100*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 3 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) / *400*Lm (11 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe 

Can someone tell me how it regulates the output in a from to scale? How far can it reduce the 2400 lumens, until 400lm, or what?


Other thought:
The first stable/fix level is *400Lm* , you only can make runtime calculation/prediction with this level, when you go outside
_(Ergo i think this is a 400lm flashlight with a 2400lm turbo mode_)


----------



## maxrep12

kolbasz said:


> I have one question guys.
> 
> The specs says:
> 
> 
> 
> H1 *2400*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 2 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) or
> H2 *1100*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 3 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) / *400*Lm (11 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe
> 
> Can someone tell me how it regulates the output in a from to scale? How far can it reduce the 2400 lumens, until 400lm, or what?
> 
> 
> Other thought:
> The first stable/fix level is *400Lm* , you only can make runtime calculation/prediction with this level, when you go outside
> _(Ergo i think this is a 400lm flashlight with a 2400lm turbo mode_)


I have taken the 6330 on several walks over an hour lengt each. The temperature regulated stpdown that occurs from high 1 never drops anywhere near high 2 at 1100 lumens. The stepdown output is much brighter than 1100.

The light also cools rapidly once it is changed to high 2 or one of the medium settings. The light appears to stepdown to a an output of around 2000 lumens in my estimation.

To be clear though, during winter months I don't think the light can maintain two hours at around 2000 lumens.


----------



## tonkem

Awesome. Thanks for the information, as I had only run mine for around 15 mins, in freezing cold weather.


----------



## maxrep12

The other evening after I had returned from walking the dog, my wife looks at the new ZL grenade in my hand, then looks up at me. Ah, but the next moment was a thing of beauty. She notices its a new light, and it does look pricey, and I know she was a curious about the price. 

In the end, her unspoken position is that if I am walking our mutt at night, I can have any friggin light I choose. She will also afford me the courtesy of not even inquiring about about the cost. Heh heh. ;-)


----------



## tonkem

I have purchased too many lights over the past 3 years, that I just tell my wife how much, as my purchases have ranged quite a bit, from surefires around $100 to a Polarion at $1500 and the Lupine lights at $500(Wilma TL) and $800 (Betty TL) respectively. I usually have to sell one or two when I get a new one, though  How many lights can you carry? I think zebralight has a real winner here, though, in the form factor and sheer power of this little light. Color me impressed 



maxrep12 said:


> The other evening after I had returned from walking the dog, my wife looks at the new ZL grenade in my hand, then looks up at me. Ah, but the next moment was a thing of beauty. She notices its a new light, and it does look pricey, and I know she was a curious about the price.
> 
> In the end, her unspoken position is that if I am walking our mutt at night, I can have any friggin light I choose. She will also afford me the courtesy of not even inquiring about about the cost. Heh heh. ;-)


----------



## maxrep12

Tonkem, 

The Lupines are premium products. Years ago I did some testing for Lupine with regards to their upper end bicycle light systems and the prefered beam angles. Of course the wider beam options quickly rose to the top as the best performance option.

I do miss the gradual warm up of the metal halide HID bulbs. I bet that Polarion is a real kick in the pants!


----------



## tonkem

Actually I sold the Polarion, too big for me, but it was a WOW light for sure. The way LEDs are going, they will soon surpass the Polarion's ability. Looks like surefire may have done it, but we will see if it ever comes out  Or maybe Zebralight will continue to amaze us 




maxrep12 said:


> Tonkem,
> 
> The Lupines are premium products. Years ago I did some testing for Lupine with regards to their upper end bicycle light systems and the prefered beam angles. Of course the wider beam options quickly rose to the top as the best performance option.
> 
> I do miss the gradual warm up of the metal halide HID bulbs. I bet that Polarion is a real kick in the pants!


----------



## Leoht

kolbasz said:


> I have one question guys.
> 
> The specs says:
> 
> 
> 
> H1 *2400*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 2 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) or
> H2 *1100*Lm (temperature regulated output, typical runtime 3 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature) / *400*Lm (11 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe
> 
> Can someone tell me how it regulates the output in a from to scale? How far can it reduce the 2400 lumens, until 400lm, or what?
> 
> 
> Other thought:
> The first stable/fix level is *400Lm* , you only can make runtime calculation/prediction with this level, when you go outside
> _(Ergo i think this is a 400lm flashlight with a 2400lm turbo mode_)



The S6330 uses PID based thermal regulation. PID stands for proportional–integral–derivative.

A good example of a PID is the program that controls elevators. They gradually slow down to stop exactly at the spot needed. 

In the case of the S6330 it will gradually reduce the output as the light approaches it's max output, the cooler the ambient temperature the higher the output that the S6330 will be able to maintain. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


----------



## magnum70383

O man, this happens to me everytime I buy something new! hahaha That stare..... lols!



maxrep12 said:


> The other evening after I had returned from walking the dog, my wife looks at the new ZL grenade in my hand, then looks up at me. Ah, but the next moment was a thing of beauty. She notices its a new light, and it does look pricey, and I know she was a curious about the price.
> 
> In the end, her unspoken position is that if I am walking our mutt at night, I can have any friggin light I choose. She will also afford me the courtesy of not even inquiring about about the cost. Heh heh. ;-)


----------



## druidmars

magnum70383 said:


> O man, this happens to me everytime I buy something new! hahaha That stare..... lols!



It must happen to all of us. Sometimes even AFTER negotiation!! haha

Edit: 100th post. I just turned flashaholic


----------



## davpet

Leoht said:


> The S6330 uses PID based thermal regulation. PID stands for proportional–integral–derivative.
> 
> A good example of a PID is the program that controls elevators. They gradually slow down to stop exactly at the spot needed.
> 
> In the case of the S6330 it will gradually reduce the output as the light approaches it's max output, the cooler the ambient temperature the higher the output that the S6330 will be able to maintain.



In addition, the S6330 uses 288 current regulated brightness levels for the PID thermal regulation. So by naked eye, the brightness change will not be visible. Unfortunately there is no more information about this. For example, what's the max temp where it can still maintain its max output? What is the minimum non user accessible brightness level? etc..


----------



## davpet

Does anyone know if there is a way to distinguish a U3 from a U2 (or a T6) emitter?


----------



## magnum70383

davpet said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to distinguish a U3 from a U2 (or a T6) emitter?



I'd like to know that! And thanks for the info. Learning more everyday here!


----------



## davpet

TM15





S6330





S6330





TM15


----------



## twl

davpet said:


> TM15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S6330
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S6330
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TM15



TM15 clearly brighter.
6330 seems to have wider spill.


----------



## Swede74

I haven't been following this thread closely (too busy playing with my SC52) so if this has been posted already, I apologize. 

If not, enjoy this video made by the Youtube user "nutsforknives"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxqVyYAA4TU


----------



## maxrep12

twl said:


> TM15 clearly brighter.
> 6330 seems to have wider spill.


If you look at the four corners of the photos, it is quite telling what you cannot see with the TM15. The photos also are clipping some of the ZL's flood. Look at the snow in the lower left corner. The high pressure sodium park lights in the lower photos are also illuminating the right side of the pictures for the TM15, which the s6330 could have illuminated on its own.


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> In addition, the S6330 uses 288 current regulated brightness levels for the PID thermal regulation. So by naked eye, the brightness change will not be visible. Unfortunately there is no more information about this. For example, what's the max temp where it can still maintain its max output? What is the minimum non user accessible brightness level? etc..


Having logged several hours on the lightat H1, I can say that the thermal regulation works consistently. As the temperature ramps up after the initial turn on, it remains constant. There are no swings in brightness or temparature that I can detect. In fact, as I am hiking with the light I will periodically switch from H1 to H2 to observe the difference in output. In this manner, any noticeable stepdowns would be revealed when oscillating quickly between the two high levels. The difference between H1 and H2 are always substantial.


----------



## JB

Anybody know the body diameter of the S6330? I see the head is listed as 57mm.


----------



## don.gwapo

Come on zebralight, many of us is itching to have this cute, little, but powerful light in hands.


----------



## eloreno

JB said:


> Anybody know the body diameter of the S6330? I see the head is listed as 57mm.



Just under 45mm


----------



## davpet

maxrep12 said:


> If you look at the four corners of the photos, it is quite telling what you cannot see with the TM15. The photos also are clipping some of the ZL's flood. Look at the snow in the lower left corner. The high pressure sodium park lights in the lower photos are also illuminating the right side of the pictures for the TM15, which the s6330 could have illuminated on its own.



I tried to zoom out as much as possible. Maybe a fish eye optics would have done the job. Finding your way in the dark is definitely much easier with the s6330. The TM15 illuminates a smaller area with higher intensity, but otherwise lives you in the dark.


----------



## maxrep12

davpet said:


> I tried to zoom out as much as possible. Maybe a fish eye optics would have done the job. Finding your way in the dark is definitely much easier with the s6330. The TM15 illuminates a smaller area with higher intensity, but otherwise lives you in the dark.



Oh heck, I have not posted a single photo myself, and don't have the proper equipment to do so in the first place. So thanks for taking the time.

Having logged about 6 hours of hiking in the woods with my dog and the s6330, I have come to realize that the online photos can only partially describe what the Zebra shows you in the real world. The ZL brings the night environment back to life. Throwers can be described in a photo, but not this grenade.

Being one who leans heavily toward flood beams, I would actually like the s6330 to have a bit larger diameter hot spot. The spill is great, but the throw is definitely more than needed/used. So I wonder if the s6330b will actually come out? Will it have too much spill? Are there enough users out there who want less throw but still have all the lumens?


----------



## magnum70383

Have a Pic on how it's fastened onto the bike? 

QUOTE=juplin;4103544]I will use the following 6-inch clamp for woodworking as my clip for "big" bike light like S6330.




One handle of this 6-inch clamp shall be fastened on the front mount of bike.[/QUOTE]


----------



## StarHalo

davpet said:


> I've also tested the light's response to battery check if the charge levels were different. The leds blink differently. So if you want to be sure all three batteries are fully charged, you have to look at the leds directly during battery check...



Just occurred to me - so does this mean you can put batteries of wildly differing voltage in this light, and each emitter will compensate accordingly? If that's the case, then this is the safest multi-Li-ion-celled flashlight ever made..


----------



## tonkem

StarHalo said:


> Just occurred to me - so does this mean you can put batteries of wildly differing voltage in this light, and each emitter will compensate accordingly? If that's the case, then this is the safest multi-Li-ion-celled flashlight ever made..



Yes, copied from their website: Three independent battery power channel for ultimate battery safty and flexibility (mix and match any 1-3 batteries)


----------



## maxrep12

In flight refueling.

Tonight I grabbed an extra set of 18650's(didn't actually need them) as I took the dog out on the evening hike. While out, one by one I switched out the batteries. Since each battery drives its own emitter, there is always at least one emitter to provide light while performing a battery change in total darkness.


----------



## RCLumens

All I can say is a big Thank you top everyone for posting info and reviews of this light! I've been keeping an eye out along with quite a few others! So now I have this light along with the new Jetbeam DDR30. Would love to hear any comparisons with other 3x emitter lights, especially sunwayman t60CS and thrunite tn30 - so if any of the lucky s6330 owners have such comparisons, I'd love to hear your thoughts as to which light shines most useful in your opinion.


----------



## JB

eloreno said:


> Just under 45mm



Thanks!


----------



## Swede74

maxrep12 said:


> Since each battery drives its own emitter, there is always at least one emitter to provide light while performing a battery change in total darkness.



I so wanted to make a witty remark, but all I could could come up with is this: Hmm, a battery change in total darkness with the light on...sounds a bit paradoxical.


----------



## magnum70383

Swede74 said:


> I so wanted to make a witty remark, but all I could could come up with is this: Hmm, a battery change in total darkness with the light on...sounds a bit paradoxical.



Yeaaaah... never have I heard of that lols


----------



## maxrep12

Swede74 said:


> I so wanted to make a witty remark, but all I could could come up with is this: Hmm, a battery change in total darkness with the light on...sounds a bit paradoxical.


Yeah, my sentence didn't come out right. Kind of like a bad haiku.


----------



## petri

maxrep12 said:


> Yeah, my sentence didn't come out right. Kind of like a bad haiku.



hey! do you all have pre-ordered your lamps?


----------



## Swede74

maxrep12 said:


> Yeah, my sentence didn't come out right. Kind of like a bad haiku.



Sorry, I hope I didn't offend you. I just knew there was a witticism hiding somewhere in your post. Unfortunately, I didn't quite manage to winkle it out:thinking: 

More on topic: The ability to run it off 1-3 batteries is a great feature - I would love to see it in a more pocket-friendly (and pocketbook-friendly?) 2-3 x AA or 14500 format.


----------



## TEEJ

Swede74 said:


> Sorry, I hope I didn't offend you. I just knew there was a witticism hiding somewhere in your post. Unfortunately, I didn't quite manage to winkle it out:thinking:
> 
> More on topic: The ability to run it off 1-3 batteries is a great feature - I would love to see it in a more pocket-friendly (and pocketbook-friendly?) 2-3 x AA or 14500 format.



Going to a weaker cell would reduce performance though.

As always, all designs are a series of compromises. More lumens require more power which requires either a reduction in run time or more cell power to handle it...and more cell power requires typically a larger cell, or more of them, and so forth.

Keeping the form factor small means there's less surface area to dissipate heat, which requires reduction in output, and/or additional measures to avoid over heating, and so forth.


----------



## twl

To my way of thinking, all of this is based on the foundation of the concept that this light is basically 3 SC600 lights wrapped up in one outer case, operating off a single electronic switch to control all three lights inside, and so of course they are going to operate independently.


----------



## Erik1213

I just got an email from Zebralight stating the S6330 will be back in stock in three to four weeks.

I guess I have no choice but to wait.


----------



## magnum70383

Wow... they're really taking their time with their awesome lights..........sigh


----------



## kengps

RCLumens said:


> Would love to hear any comparisons with other 3x emitter lights, especially sunwayman t60CS and thrunite tn30 - so if any of the lucky s6330 owners have such comparisons, I'd love to hear your thoughts as to which light shines most useful in your opinion.



Being the owner of a TM15 clone and a T60CS....I would say they are a different class of light. 15,000 lux vs 34,000 lux. I prefer the thrower myself.


----------



## g.p.

Erik1213 said:


> I just got an email from Zebralight stating the S6330 will be back in stock in three to four weeks.
> 
> I guess I have no choice but to wait.


Wonder if they have had to make some updates after the underwhelming first reviews came in questioning ZL's claimed output?


----------



## TheCleanerSD

Still waiting on mine which has been on order since December 28th. I assumed with how quickly I received my preorder SC52 that the wait would be similar on this. I think you are right to assume that there might be some last minute changes/testing happening.


----------



## GordoJones88

It's extremely unlikely Zebralight would ship out a new light that has problems, without proper testing first.


----------



## g.p.

GordoJones88 said:


> It's extremely unlikely Zebralight would ship out a new light that has problems, without proper testing first.


Maybe not "problems" per say, but they are famous for making updates during the production run. It's nice that they are constantly making things better, but it sucks when you're one of the early adopters without any of the upgrades.


----------



## don.gwapo

I guess they are tweaking the afterthought lanyard ring attachment, and the stainless bezel will overlap the head for impact protection.


----------



## g.p.

don.gwapo said:


> I guess they are tweaking the afterthought lanyard ring attachment, and the stainless bezel will overlap the head for impact protection.


That would be great! That lanyard attachment looked like it would just rip the insides of my coat pockets and scratch things.


----------



## xed888

I'd be quite incensed if they underrated their lumens for the first batch.


----------



## GordoJones88

xed888 said:


> I'd be quite incensed if they underrated their lumens for the first batch.



That does not appear to be the case.


----------



## xed888

GordoJones88 said:


> That does not appear to be the case.



Hope self built has a review soon. :thumbup:


----------



## xed888

Erik1213 said:


> I just got an email from Zebralight stating the S6330 will be back in stock in three to four weeks.
> 
> I guess I have no choice but to wait.



A poster on the German forums said ZL told him they would ship his order within the next ten days. He placed his order on 8/1/2013.


----------



## TEEJ

xed888 said:


> A poster on the German forums said ZL told him they would ship his order within the next ten days. He placed his order on 8/1/2013.



Those Germans and their time travel....so clever.



So he'll get his light sometime after August 11, 2013?


----------



## xed888

TEEJ said:


> Those Germans and their time travel....so clever.
> 
> 
> 
> So he'll get his light sometime after August 11, 2013?



ah thats DD/MM/YY.

I forgot you use MM/DD/YY. LOL!


----------



## TEEJ

:nana:


----------



## magnum70383

Still waiting for a good review for this light...


----------



## Samy

xed888 said:


> ah thats DD/MM/YY.
> 
> I forgot you use MM/DD/YY. LOL!




I know what you mean, i always forget to use backwards dates when dealing with american forums. Those pesky backwards americans 

cheers


----------



## Patriot

davpet said:


> I tried to zoom out as much as possible. Maybe a fish eye optics would have done the job. Finding your way in the dark is definitely much easier with the s6330. The TM15 illuminates a smaller area with higher intensity, but otherwise lives you in the dark.



...and they're very helpful and telling pictures. They seem to be very close in overall output to me. Without measuring these two lights in a lightbox or with a ceiling bouce test, I can't imagine anyone suggesting that the S6330 has disappointing output. If it is, it's not by much. The comparison shots are pretty close to what I suspected given the reflector size and Zebralight's lux claims. Given the size of the S6330, I think that's where the real magic is. It's holds it's own in overall output but in a much smaller chassis. I think it's a really amazing design, right down to the individual circuits!


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> ...and they're very helpful and telling pictures. They seem to be very close in overall output to me. Without measuring these two lights in a lightbox or with a ceiling bouce test, I can't imagine anyone suggesting that the S6330 has disappointing output. If it is, it's not by much. The comparison shots are pretty close to what I suspected given the reflector size and Zebralight's lux claims. Given the size of the S6330, I think that's where the real magic is. It's holds it's own in overall output but in a much smaller chassis. I think it's a really amazing design, right down to the individual circuits!



Bingo.

A 4" long light that pumps out over 2k+ lumens can be very handy. A large problem with large lights is that they tend not to be with you, because its too much trouble to lug them around. If the light becomes small enough to go in a pocket, you might actually have it with you when needed. Hence the huge number of EDC and keychain sized lights we tend to CARRY, and the large lights we leave at home/in the truck, etc....and only haul out when we know we need the juice ahead of time.

It not that the average P60 sized light pumps out light better than say a Fenix TK70, its that we tend to not EDC/carry TK70 sized lights.

The 600 lumens with you will make it brighter than the 2,000 lumens you left at home.

With the S6330, you might HAVE it with you.


----------



## Badbeams3

I don`t see myself carrying anything this wide around with me. If I`m going camping or fishing, then I would. So being short and tubby does not attract me. If I`m going to carry a big gun, I want bright. The ThruNite TN30 is "claimed" to put out 3600 lumens...a nice man sized well proportioned light. The Nitecore Tiny Monsters rated at 2000 and 2400 have aggressive styling and good solid performance. The Fenix TK75 at 2600 lumen offers flexibility in that extensions can be added on making it a true long run time search and rescue light.

The Zebralight...that I started out wanting, is starting to loose my interest. True it has a great super low...but that is not the main concern I`m interested in, not in these types of lights. If the Zebralight is putting out less light than the others, and it appears to be, I would rather spend my triple emitter $$$$$ on one of the others. I am not that interested in "cute", but rather performance. I`ll take a Corvette over a VW bug.


----------



## davpet

Patriot said:


> ...and they're very helpful and telling pictures. They seem to be very close in overall output to me. Without measuring these two lights in a lightbox or with a ceiling bouce test, I can't imagine anyone suggesting that the S6330 has disappointing output. If it is, it's not by much. The comparison shots are pretty close to what I suspected given the reflector size and Zebralight's lux claims. Given the size of the S6330, I think that's where the real magic is. It's holds it's own in overall output but in a much smaller chassis. I think it's a really amazing design, right down to the individual circuits!



Yes, they are close in output, but (at least my sample) still scores lower on the ceiling bounce tests.. which shouldn't be the case with the U3 emitters. Of course this brings up an other question: how do I know that there are U3 emitters in the light? Do they look different from U2?

BTW, what are Zebralight's lux claims?


----------



## davpet

Badbeams3 said:


> I don`t see myself carrying anything this wide around with me. If I`m going camping or fishing, then I would. So being short and tubby does not attract me. If I`m going to carry a big gun, I want bright. The ThruNite TN30 is "claimed" to put out 3600 lumens...a nice man sized well proportioned light. The Nitecore Tiny Monsters rated at 2000 and 2400 have aggressive styling and good solid performance. The Fenix TK75 at 2600 lumen offers flexibility in that extensions can be added on making it a true long run time search and rescue light.
> 
> The Zebralight...that I started out wanting, is starting to loose my interest. True it has a great super low...but that is not the main concern I`m interested in, not in these types of lights. If the Zebralight is putting out less light than the others, and it appears to be, I would rather spend my triple emitter $$$$$ on one of the others. I am not that interested in "cute", but rather performance. I`ll take a Corvette over a VW bug.



Ohh, I haven't realized that ThruNite already put XM-L2 emitters in the TN30. 3338 ansi lumens, not bad. I almost got the previous, 3000 lumen max. version, but when I saw selfbuilt's light output charts, and compared the TN30 with the TM15, I was happy I didn't buy it.


----------



## TEEJ

Its appples and ornages, the beams do different things for you.

If carrying a 9" light is the same as a 4" light, sure, carry the 9". 

The floody beams and the throwy beams have different purposes and applications.

For dog walking, hiking, camping, sight seeing at night, etc...a floody beam can't be beat.

A STRONG floody beam will throw further than a middling throwy beam, a few hundred yards is not a problem typically.

If you're Ok with large lights, a larger bezel diameter/reflector, all things being equal, will be less floody and have better throw at the expense of appropriateness for tasks, etc.

Its like a tool box.

You need a 8" #2 Philips head screw driver sometimes, no matter HOW great your wrench is.


----------



## GordoJones88

davpet said:


> Ohh, I haven't realized that ThruNite already put XM-L2 emitters in the TN30. 3338 ansi lumens, not bad. I almost got the previous, 3000 lumen max. version, but when I saw selfbuilt's light output charts, and compared the TN30 with the TM15, I was happy I didn't buy it.



Selfbuilt estimated the TM15 at 2450 ANSI lumens and the TN30 XMLU2 at 2750 ANSI lumens. If the new TN30 is using XML2T6 emitters, it would be on average 7% brighter, or 2950 ANSI lumens. Thrunite used Cree's new marketing slogan "Up To 20% brighter" a little too loosely.


----------



## CM2010

Finally a UK shop has them in stock, will have mine on Saturday.


----------



## tonkem

CM2010 said:


> Finally a UK shop has them in stock, will have mine on Saturday.



Be sure to post your thoughts of the light.


----------



## tonkem

I just gave my son the s6330 that I purchased for him, after playing with it for a week. I miss it already. . I have to go back to using my Lupine Wilma and Betty TL.


----------



## amaretto

tested my second S6330. Again max. 2.000 lumens burst at the beginning but decrease to ~1.800/1.900 lms depending on when measured.
Not the brightest triple XM-L but one of the brightest regarding it's size.


----------



## TEEJ

amaretto said:


> tested my second S6330. Again max. 2.000 lumens burst at the beginning but decrease to ~1.800/1.900 lms depending on when measured.
> Not the brightest triple XM-L but one of the brightest regarding it's size.



Is it in the turbo mode, or the high mode?

It SOUNDS like you might be in high mode instead of turbo?


----------



## CM2010

H1 would be classed as turbo and H2 is 1100 so it looks like he is on the highest setting.


----------



## xed888

I think what the others have said about ceiling bounce tests are correct: Flooders will give a lower lumen reading in a ceiling bounce whereas throwers have higher lumen numbers (assuming both torches are rated equally in an intergrating sphere.

Selfbuilt, might you want to chime in?

Or anyone else knowledgable?


----------



## xed888

amaretto said:


> tested my second S6330. Again max. 2.000 lumens burst at the beginning but decrease to ~1.800/1.900 lms depending on when measured.
> Not the brightest triple XM-L but one of the brightest regarding it's size.



at least they are consistent 

I doubt ZL will post wrong lumens (I realise this is an about turn from what I wrote weeks ago )


----------



## kengps

amaretto said:


> tested my second S6330. Again max. 2.000 lumens burst at the beginning but decrease to ~1.800/1.900 lms depending on when measured.
> Not the brightest triple XM-L but one of the brightest regarding it's size.



My T60CS tested at 2400lumens. Normal high is 1800-1900. It is nearly imperceptible. It takes careful study to see the difference.


----------



## twl

It's not than unusual for a light to lose some output as it heats up. Especially a high power light.
The Malkoff Wildcat is rated at 1350 at turn on, but it stabilizes at 1150, and he states that in his spec release. 
So, for a small 2000 lumen light to lose a couple hundred lumens after turn on, would probably be expected.


----------



## TEEJ

Amaretto - I suppose I should ask how the LUMENS were measured?

That might give a clue as to why they seem consistently low too.


----------



## davpet

xed888 said:


> I think what the others have said about ceiling bounce tests are correct: Flooders will give a lower lumen reading in a ceiling bounce whereas throwers have higher lumen numbers (assuming both torches are rated equally in an intergrating sphere.
> 
> Selfbuilt, might you want to chime in?
> 
> Or anyone else knowledgable?



I think flooders only give lower lumen ratings if 1: the lux meter is placed close to the light, so the brighter hotspot of a thrower is detected by the device, 2: if the flooder light is not placed close enough to the ceiling: some of its spill beam escapes on the side walls. What I do is position the lights close enough to the ceiling, and place the lux meter horizontally as far away as possible, preventing the sensor to see the hotspot directly.

I consistently get higher lux readings on both my TM11 (which has a larger spill beam than the S6330) and TM15.

If the S6330 is 3 new version SC600s put together, light output should be 2700 lumens. All I can say is if that is true, my TMs are around 3000.


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> I think flooders only give lower lumen ratings if 1: the lux meter is placed close to the light, so the brighter hotspot of a thrower is detected by the device, 2: if the flooder light is not placed close enough to the ceiling: some of its spill beam escapes on the side walls. What I do is position the lights close enough to the ceiling, and place the lux meter horizontally as far away as possible, preventing the sensor to see the hotspot directly.
> 
> I consistently get higher lux readings on both my TM11 (which has a larger spill beam than the S6330) and TM15.
> 
> If the S6330 is 3 new version SC600s put together, light output should be 2700 lumens. All I can say is if that is true, my TMs are around 3000.




Think of it this way:

Generally, the lux meter can only measure what hits the detector. 

Light that is bouncing around on the table next to it, on the floor, through the door of the next room onto the cat, etc...is not being measured.

A concentrated beam, pointed straight up, has most of the light come straight down too...proportionally...and, be more likely to hit the detector below.

The more floody the beam, the less light emitted will bounce straight down at the detector.


If you think about surface brightness, and why a smaller LED, even with lower lumen output, will have a higher cd/longer throw/tighter hot spot...

..and extrapolate that concept to the hot spot you create on the ceiling when you aim the light at it.




If the hot spot on the CEILING is say 1' across, THAT is now your effective surface brightness/smaller LED equivalent that is now sending lumens back DOWN at your detector....which reads out in Lux.


If the light is floody, that hot spot might be 3' across instead of 1' across, etc...and, is now functioning as an effectively DIMMER emitter with lower surface brightness...as the lumens bouncing down are more spread out, and, fewer will hit the detector.


This is why they use an integrating sphere, to keep all those lovely lumens bouncing around the detector. They use a shield to shadow the detector itself from the direct emission, and use the homogenized lumens to measure the lux.

They then use calculations to interpret how many lux = how many lumens.


When we do this in a kitchen, its not an integrating kitchen. Some of the light is not sent back to the detector....its illuminating the casserole pan in the sink, etc.


We compensate by measuring some "known lumen lights", see what corrective factors we'd apply to get what we assume we're supposed to get...and then interpret subsequent unknown lights.

The problems of course come from the plethora of variables that kitchen, and that beam angle, hot spot vs corona vs spill RATIOS, wavelengths and paint, what dishes are in the sink/dish drainer, did we mop/dust recently, are the cabinets beech or cherry, etc. 

So, we can get some ball park info, but, that's about it...unless we always test lights that are the same anyway.




So, that's WHY floody lights are hardest to measure informally...getting all the lumens to go to the detector is like herding cats.


----------



## g.p.

Well so much for the lumen increase that I was hoping for with the last minute LED swap. Hopefully ZL will post their official numbers sometime soon. It's pretty weird that they haven't by now...maybe they are making some changes to get the numbers up before releasing the next batch.


----------



## selas

g.p. said:


> Well so much for the lumen increase that I was hoping for with the last minute LED swap. Hopefully ZL will post their official numbers sometime soon. It's pretty weird that they haven't by now...maybe they are making some changes to get the numbers up before releasing the next batch.


Maybe they're recalibrating their integrating sphere...


----------



## xed888

g.p. said:


> Well so much for the lumen increase that I was hoping for with the last minute LED swap. Hopefully ZL will post their official numbers sometime soon. It's pretty weird that they haven't by now...maybe they are making some changes to get the numbers up before releasing the next batch.



If you're basing your comment on amaretto then yes. 

Otherwise there is still hope for someone with an IS. ;-)

Here's what they replied when I asked about new btach: All S6330 shipped so far use U3 LEDs and should be brighter than the 2400Lm specs. However, I don't know when we'll update the specs.


----------



## GordoJones88

xed888 said:


> If you're basing your comment on amaretto then yes.
> Otherwise there is still hope for someone with an IS. ;-)



So far it's Amaretto, Davpet, and "The German" who have all chimed in on the sub 2000 lumen estimation. Selfbuilt cannot fit big lights in his integrating sphere and uses a ceiling bounce estimation also. However, getting an accurate rating of the lumen estimation is not going to make the light brighter.


----------



## moozooh

The real question at hand is, is it bright enough for what it is?


----------



## xed888

GordoJones88 said:


> So far it's Amaretto, Davpet, and "The German" who have all chimed in on the sub 2000 lumen estimation. Selfbuilt cannot fit big lights in his integrating sphere and uses a ceiling bounce estimation also. However, getting an accurate rating of the lumen estimation is not going to make the light brighter.



Amaretto is the German. 
At least we will know if ZL is lying or not.


----------



## g.p.

moozooh said:


> The real question at hand is, is it bright enough for what it is?


Three XML's should be driven harder on turbo than 2000 lumens IMO. If there isn't some reliable info saying otherwise on the lumen specs then I'm going to pass. Current technology can already surpass that and I don't want to lay down the cash on something that is obselete before I even get it in my hands.


----------



## CM2010

Just got mine:


----------



## xed888

CM2010 said:


> Just got mine:



any comments on the "2400" lumens rating?


----------



## CM2010

Not yet don't have any meters or anything will just have to wait for a dark night when the snows goes to get some pics.


----------



## CM2010

Anyone know of any holsters for the S6330?

Maybe the Nitecore EA4 holster would be suitable?


----------



## Essexman

CM2010 said:


> Anyone know of any holsters for the S6330?



Anything a coke can would fit in will do ?


----------



## Badbeams3

This whole thing does not make sense regarding the out put. Even if they had U2`s in there...and using 3 old SC600 circuits...and a common switch, the output should be 2250. More/less on par with the TM 11. The U3`s should easily add an extra 150 lumen I would think.


----------



## moozooh

It would, if there were no thermal control in place. Which is there pretty much because the size demands it in some way. The theoretical "three SC600s glued together" would similarly drop from 2400 to ~1600 lm after five minutes, too, and those combined have larger surface area for heat dissipation.

I've yet to hear official comments on the matter, but I guess there's just no conquering physics. One has to choose between large & bright and small & not quite so bright.


----------



## CM2010

Just been out with mine but with the snow it just illuminates everything already and dulls whatever light you have with you.


----------



## biglights

CM2010 said:


> Just been out with mine but with the snow it just illuminates everything already and dulls whatever light you have with you.



+1. I think we all know what the real tiny monster is :devil:


----------



## biglights

CM2010 said:


> Anyone know of any holsters for the S6330?
> 
> Maybe the Nitecore EA4 holster would be suitable?



I just tried and it wont close all the way. The S6330 fits up to where the head gets big. Not secure, would not recommend using this.


----------



## CM2010

Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## vinhnguyen54

Soooo I got it opened for XM-L2 5000K But then....Hmmmmmm kinda stuck now. All the electronics and the LEDs are on the same board Arghhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## GordoJones88

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Soooo I got it opened for XM-L2 5000K But then....Hmmmmmm kinda stuck now. All the electronics and the LEDs are on the same board Arghhhhhhhhhhhh



Since the S6330 comes with XM-L U3 which is essentially the same as an XM-L2 T6, you are basically switching from a 6300K to 5000K? Or did you get an XM-L2 U2 5000K ?


----------



## sbbsga

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Soooo I got it opened for XM-L2 5000K But then....Hmmmmmm kinda stuck now. All the electronics and the LEDs are on the same board Arghhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Erik1213

Heat the board directly under the LED. Remove original LED. Use low temperate solder. Heat board directly under new LED till solder melts and flows under the LED.


----------



## vinhnguyen54

GordoJones88 said:


> Since the S6330 comes with XM-L U3 which is essentially the same as an XM-L2 T6, you are basically switching from a 6300K to 5000K? Or did you get an XM-L2 U2 5000K ?



Yup. I love Neutral now


----------



## vinhnguyen54

Erik1213 said:


> Heat the board directly under the LED. Remove original LED. Use low temperate solder. Heat board directly under new LED till solder melts and flows under the LED.



But there are many tiny components that I am afraid might burn with the heat.


----------



## davpet

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Yup. I love Neutral now



So, is it XM-L2 T6, or XM-L2 U2 5000K?


----------



## davpet

Could someone measure how hard the leds are driven in the S6330? I think that would make things clearer regarding the light's max output. I would gladly do it myself, but 1: I don't have equipment for it, 2: I don't know how it's done.


----------



## moozooh

They're variably driven depending on the feedback from thermal sensors... What figure do expect to see?

Rated max 2400 lm with U2 would imply 800 lm per LED, so somewhere between 2.85 and 3.0 amps max.


----------



## CM2010

Took a few pics tonight comparing it with my SC600:


----------



## davpet

moozooh said:


> They're variably driven depending on the feedback from thermal sensors... What figure do expect to see?
> 
> Rated max 2400 lm with U2 would imply 800 lm per LED, so somewhere between 2.85 and 3.0 amps max.



Actually I would like to compare it with the TM11 and 15, to see if they are driven harder or not.


----------



## carl

CM2010 - thanks for the comparison pictures - what a huge visible difference!


----------



## xed888

To all those who received your S6330: Any quality issues such as scratches or uncentred LEDs?


----------



## CM2010

Mine is fine.


----------



## maxrep12

carl said:


> CM2010 - thanks for the comparison pictures - what a huge visible difference!


This, and another s6330 owner stated that a single emitter running from an s6330, on the highest setting, was brighter than an sc600 on the highest setting. 

My personal impression is that the xml u3 emitters are being driven harder on the s6330 than the emitter on the sc600. My experience with xml emitters is that they become less green/more white as they are driven harder. Simply cycle through the brightness levels to observe this. The s6330 has a much whiter tint than the sc600. To be fair, this could be a characteristic of the U3, but it seems likely that the 288 step thermal regulation provides more leeway in driving the emitter hotter than the 5 minute timed automatic step down with the sc600.

The underpass photos are some of the few posted that actually do the s6330 justice. Many attempts at comparing the full expanse of the flood oriented beam with throwers, have significantly clipped the s6330's output. Perhaps a panoramic view is required.

In the end, Selfbuilt has confirmed the output of the sc600, *and just today has confirmed the lumen output of the SC52!* The s6330 with the U3 emitters is every bit of 2400 lumens, and as ZL has indicated, the lumen rating will be adjusted upwards to reflect the U3 emitter usage. As many of the s6330 owners have attested, you have to experience the scope of this lights beam outdoors, in person.


----------



## maxrep12

Volume occupied by a can of coke: 390ml

Volume occupied by an s6330: 190ml


----------



## Gemlab

My order is now changed to , new , shipping from China.


----------



## petri

Gemlab said:


> My order is now changed to , new , shipping from China.



My order is changed. Dhl chipped from china. Yes!! 3-4 DAYS ANYMORE WAITING


----------



## petri

petri said:


> My order is changed. Dhl chipped from china. Yes!! 3-4 DAYS ANYMORE WAITING



(chipped) Mean (SHIPPING):twothumbs


----------



## xed888

petri said:


> My order is changed. Dhl chipped from china. Yes!! 3-4 DAYS ANYMORE WAITING





petri said:


> (chipped) Mean (SHIPPING):twothumbs





petri said:


> My orded is changed. Dhl chipped from china. Yes!! 3-4 DAYS ANYMORE WAITING



Please don't spam. You can edit your posts.


----------



## lokenshy

xed888 said:


> To all those who received your S6330: Any quality issues such as scratches or uncentred LEDs?


my friend's S6330 arrived last sunday , didn't find any problem by now, seems very good.


----------



## magnum70383

Just got my S6330. WOW... wow wow it's SMALL. Smaller than I thought from the photos I've seen. This light is bright, gets very hot very quick. Total hand warmer for winter months. I love the power button. Not too firm, not too soft. Now if I can clamp this baby onto my bike. Drivers will look at me weird for having a light brighter than their headlights :naughty:


----------



## CM2010

Great light but not sure how it'll cope in the summer months.


----------



## magnum70383

CM2010 said:


> Great light but not sure how it'll cope in the summer months.


Ya not sure yet. Guess we'll see. I think it's harder for this badboy to cool off since it's so small. But I gotta say, the beam is really really nice.

Actually, been turning it on turbo for a while, the light gets VERY VERY hot. Is this normal? It's so hot I wish the light can be longer so I can hold it at the very end lol


----------



## moozooh

I suppose you could wrap some tape around the handle if it's too hot and you still need the output. It's not as thermally conductive as aluminum, so it won't be so hot to the touch. It likely will make the rest of the light hotter and/or decrease the output further due to increased thermal feedback.


----------



## maxrep12

I've logged about ten hours hiking with the dog with the light on H1. It does get very warm quickly, but not too hot to hold. It is winter here. My guess is that summer weather will simply allow the 288 step thermal regulation to operate more aggressively. This more pronounced stepdown may keep the outer housing of the light at approximately the same temps?


----------



## maxrep12

CM2010 said:


> Just got mine:


Magnum said, "Just got my S6330. WOW... wow wow it's SMALL. Smaller than I thought from the photos I've seen."

Yeah, when the sc52 was coming out I commented that the online pictures really did not scale with the reality of having it in front of you. Zebra lights are tiny. See the coke can above? The s6330 is actually much smaller. The coke can occupies approx 390ml while the s6330 occupies 190ml of volume! I wonder how much volume a TM11 or 15 take up?

Economy of size.


----------



## magnum70383

question. when i set this light to the lowest mode, the leds are not the same brightness. seems like 1 is brighter than the other 2. Is this normal?


----------



## maxrep12

magnum70383 said:


> question. when i set this light to the lowest mode, the leds are not the same brightness. seems like 1 is brighter than the other 2. Is this normal?


Yep. Emitters on high tend to be much more consistent with their max output than when they are driven in the loweat sub lumen level. I believe each emitter has its own resistors for the low levels. The differences in tolerances for these resistors can be seen when eyeballing the emitter.

Thats my understanding anyway.


----------



## magnum70383

sweet. good to know thanks


----------



## lampeDépêche

As far as heat in the summertime goes, some of us are going to deal with it by pedaling faster!

Used as a bike headlight, the constant airflow should help a lot to keep it cool, in high if not in turbo, even in hot summer temps.


----------



## magnum70383

I just want to know how you're gonna clamp these badboys on?



lampeDépêche said:


> As far as heat in the summertime goes, some of us are going to deal with it by pedaling faster!
> 
> Used as a bike headlight, the constant airflow should help a lot to keep it cool, in high if not in turbo, even in hot summer temps.


----------



## MattSPL

magnum70383 said:


> I just want to know how you're gonna clamp these badboys on?



+1
Two of these on the handlebars would be sweet


----------



## lampeDépêche

magnum70383 said:


> I just want to know how you're gonna clamp these badboys on?



My current headlight is a Fenix TK-35, and there's no problem using that with a Two-Fish lock-block, light slung under the bar.

You just need to find a slightly longer velcro-strap for the side that wraps around the light--the rubber itself has no problem expanding to conform to the large diameter.

I don't have my ZL yet, so I can't tell you that I have tried it and made it work. But I have ridden that way with my TK35 for hundreds, if not thousands, of miles, and I don't think the difference in diameter is going to be that great (i.e. cinching the strap around the waist of the ZL, not its head).


----------



## GordoJones88




----------



## DaFABRICATA

I used mine to go to the grocery store this morning when the rain was clear. Dispite the wet roads, the S6330 did a great job! and didn't seem less bright like most lights do in wet conditions.
:twothumbsGoing over bumps resulted in hearing some battery rattle, but no changing of levels or cutting out. I think an isolation sleeve in the battery tube will be needed should it be mounted directly to the bike to avoid rattle.
It was about 55 degrees here in michigan when I was riding and the light never even felt warm running on high. 

A few velcro adjustable ties held the light in place and made it easy to remove. The placement also allowed perfect placement for my thumb to change levels.
And yes, I do want another for the other side!:naughty:

I recieved this light early wednesday morning and have not been able to stop playing with it. Very happy with it so far. The Zebralight UI is one of my personal favorites and this is my first one that allows the "6 click program" to other levels. It's very easy to use.

Anyway, this thing makes a lot of the car headlamps around here look dim! oo:  :duck:

As a side note: Hearing how many people like their SC52's, I placed an order for one a few days ago and have it and an H31fr (flood-red) coming later this week!


----------



## justanotherguy

Nice Rush!
-CDT


----------



## lampeDépêche

Gordo, that's a pretty sweet scooter up in #842.

But don't you think it needs a few MORE HEADLIGHTS?

As Christopher Walken might say, "I've got a fever, and the only prescription is...."



defabricata in #843--nice rig! I like the positioning on the handle-bars.


----------



## magnum70383

hey buddy. are those just velcro straps around your s6330?
for me, i do mostly mountain intermediate trails. do you think the straps will hold up? and will the amount of shock from the handle bars damage the light?


DaFABRICATA said:


> I used mine to go to the grocery store this morning when the rain was clear. Dispite the wet roads, the S6330 did a great job! and didn't seem less bright like most lights do in wet conditions.
> :twothumbsGoing over bumps resulted in hearing some battery rattle, but no changing of levels or cutting out. I think an isolation sleeve in the battery tube will be needed should it be mounted directly to the bike to avoid rattle.
> It was about 55 degrees here in michigan when I was riding and the light never even felt warm running on high.
> 
> A few velcro adjustable ties held the light in place and made it easy to remove. The placement also allowed perfect placement for my thumb to change levels.
> And yes, I do want another for the other side!:naughty:
> 
> I recieved this light early wednesday morning and have not been able to stop playing with it. Very happy with it so far. The Zebralight UI is one of my personal favorites and this is my first one that allows the "6 click program" to other levels. It's very easy to use.
> 
> Anyway, this thing makes a lot of the car headlamps around here look dim! oo:  :duck:
> 
> As a side note: Hearing how many people like their SC52's, I placed an order for one a few days ago and have it and an H31fr (flood-red) coming later this week!


----------



## Gemlab

Got my tracking number today.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

Hello magnum70383, the velcro straps are probably only good enough for road riding with minimal bumps.
Mountain biking would definately require a better mount to avoid it working itself loose. 
If the battery rattle while riding could be solved and a better mount, I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used mountain biking.


----------



## verysimple

looks like a road bike.. dont see him taking it offroad much..


----------



## kwak

If anyone has a TM11 and a S6330 i would greatly appreciate a few comparison pics and a quick comparison review.


----------



## CM2010

On my S6330 on H2 1100lm there doesn't seem to be much difference between my SC600 on 750lm, anyone else find this?

Has anyone got any comparison shots?


----------



## g.p.

CM2010 said:


> On my S6330 on H2 1100lm there doesn't seem to be much difference between my SC600 on 750lm, anyone else find this?
> 
> Has anyone got any comparison shots?


Did you ceiling bounce it? I don't have my 6330 yet, but I would suspect that the 6330 doesn't look much brighter but has a lot more spill in a side by side comparison. A ceiling bounce should show the difference in lumens though.


----------



## CM2010

Just took a couple of pics comparing them, the SC600 pic came out a bit blurry.


----------



## StarHalo

CM2010 said:


> Just took a couple of pics comparing them, the SC600 pic came out a bit blurry.



Which would indicate the shutter stayed open longer on one than the other.


----------



## CM2010

Same settings on both pics, may have been a bit windier on the SC600 pic.


----------



## g.p.

CM2010 said:


> Same settings on both pics, may have been a bit windier on the SC600 pic.


Something is weird, even the street lights in the background are much brighter in the sc600 picture. :thinking:


----------



## magnum70383

Lol looks like the sc600 is much brighter than the S6330. Ha ha. Check the shutter speed, aperture and iso for both pix. Something is wrong


----------



## maxrep12

CM2010 said:


> Took a few pics tonight comparing it with my SC600:


Here is a good comparison of the sc600 and the s6330.


----------



## Warsaw

So basically, if i use only one cell, lowest mode will be at 0,09LM/3=0,03LM?
Can't wait to get this awesome light.


----------



## magnum70383

Warsaw said:


> So basically, if i use only one cell, lowest mode will be at 0,09LM/3=0,03LM?
> Can't wait to get this awesome light.



Ya I tried it. It's definitely lower output if you use 1 battery. So in an emergency situation, you can power this light forever using 1 cell after the other instead of all 3!


----------



## Chauncy

GordoJones88 said:


> The Zebralight S6330 is by far the smallest, but has a rapid thermal stepdown decreasing output pretty quickly. It is also the floodiest 3 x XML light.



is the S6330 more floody than the TM11 - which had a very wide spill angle, I would really like to see an image like selfbuilt's below of the s6330

from selfbuilt:


----------



## pano_maker

*From ZL website*, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_We will stop shipping international orders during Chinese Spring Festival (from Feb 6 to Feb 15)_." [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Received mine on Feb 8th - ordered Jan 4th. EMS shipped. 

Any suggestions for a holster?[/FONT]


----------



## davpet

No, the TM11 has a wider spill beam and a tighter hotspot than the S6330.


----------



## tatopus




----------



## dlmorgan999

That's a nice family shot tatopus. :thumbsup:

It's not, however, making it any easier to wait for my S6330 to arrive.


----------



## tatopus

dlmorgan999 said:


> That's a nice family shot tatopus. :thumbsup:
> 
> It's not, however, making it any easier to wait for my S6330 to arrive.



Thank you! And for me it was not easy.
This is the my Zebras route: China - California - Paris - Kiev (Ukraine)
:huh:


----------



## JetskiMark

Thank you tonkem for the comparison photos and the beam shots. I like how short the S6330 looks next to the SC600. (I have two SC600ws that I really like.)

Does anyone have a picture of a TM11 and an S6330 next to each other?

I am planning on ordering an S6330 when they become available again. I have a TM11 that I like, but it seems so large and heavy compared to my SC600w, that I do not use it much. The lack of lower modes also makes it too bright for walking the dog. The medium levels of my SC600w are perfect for this.

I have compared the specs on the two but a picture would be appreciated.



tonkem said:


> Snip...
> 
> Left to right, Betty TLS, Wilma TL, S6330, SC600, SC52
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilma TL, Betty TLS, S6330, SC600, Sc52


----------



## JeffN

JetskiMark said:


> Does anyone have a picture of a TM11 and an S6330 next to each other?



See post #611.



JetskiMark said:


> I am planning on ordering an S6330 when they become available again.



I thought they were out of stock inthe U.S., too -- then I found one yesterday at Illumination Supply (thanks, Craig!). It was their last one though. Looking forward to comparing it to my TM11s and Skyray Kings.


----------



## JetskiMark

JeffN said:


> See post #611.
> 
> *Thank you. I scrolled through numerous pages looking for pictures but obviously missed that one.*
> 
> I thought they were out of stock in the U.S., too -- then I found one yesterday at Illumination Supply (thanks, Craig!). It was their last one though. Looking forward to comparing it to my TM11s and Skyray Kings.
> 
> *Nice score. I am really hoping for a neutral version to be available when they resume production. A neutral SC52 would also be very nice.*


----------



## Gauntlet3D

Does anyone know if they killed the "B" version?


----------



## tatopus

in the open air))


----------



## moldyoldy

tatopus said:


> in the open air))



This is a very nicely composed photograph. The background nicely gives character to the light by implying durability under rough condtions, yet does not detract from the light itself. The photogs rule of thirds was followed both horizontally and vertically. Well done!


----------



## tatopus




----------



## tatopus

*moldyoldy, *thank you!


----------



## 276

Looks like light junction has a small amount of them. Someone buy them before i cave.


----------



## TBuddha

Thank you 276. I just jumped over to light junction and grabbed one of three S6330 they listed in stock. BTW, CPFSAVE12 still works for a coupon.


----------



## JetskiMark

276 said:


> Looks like light junction has a small amount of them. Someone buy them before i cave.





TBuddha said:


> Thank you 276. I just jumped over to light junction and grabbed one of three S6330 they listed in stock. BTW, CPFSAVE12 still works for a coupon.



* Thanks a lot to the both of you. Like I really needed yet another light.*

I am a sucker for a good deal. For the price, I could not resist.

There is still one left in stock.

I am still hoping for a neutral version though.


----------



## Erik1213

Gah, I have one on the way now.

I need to get rid of some lights. I try to stay under 10 at all times. I will be at 12 lights with this Zebra.


----------



## magnum70383

lol it's a great light. Just buy it guys ha ha


----------



## Lou Minescence

JetskiMark said:


> * Thanks a lot to the both of you. Like I really needed yet another light.*
> 
> I am a sucker for a good deal. For the price, I could not resist.
> 
> There is still one left in stock.
> 
> I am still hoping for a neutral version though.



I almost ordered one last night. I held back for a neutral. Zebralight makes a neutral version everything else. It's only a matter of time. Hope I'm correct. Time will tell. 😅


----------



## neo_xeno

received mine today! it really is a lot smaller than I had expected, can't wait to test it out tonight.


----------



## m900

maxrep12 said:


> When Selfbuilt reviewed the sc600, he confirmed the ZL's stated lumens.
> 
> With the s6330 having xml-u3 emitters, the lumen rating is most likely understated at 2400. In fact, I believe ZL is going to relist the lumen specs to a higher number shortly.
> 
> For those who are looking at a TM11, now is a great time to "get going" and buy one as they are being discounted to $141.





Hello cpf! 

It's my first post - and i'm one of the germans quoted above ;-) so i'll do my best with english grammar.
I payed a lot attention to this thread with all the news about the zebralight - and my wife allowed me to get (our first) a flashlight for daily use at our little farm...

May i ask you, maxrep12, where i can get the TM11 for that rate? 

Best regards,

Ben


----------



## maxrep12

m900 said:


> Hello cpf!
> 
> It's my first post - and i'm one of the germans quoted above ;-) so i'll do my best with english grammar.
> I payed a lot attention to this thread with all the news about the zebralight - and my wife allowed me to get (our first) a flashlight for daily use at our little farm...
> 
> May i ask you, maxrep12, where i can get the TM11 for that rate?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben


I believe it was GoingGear. There was also another outfit that had a similar sale for Black Friday. 

If you do get the TM11, would you mind measuring its volume? The s6330 occupies 190ml.


----------



## carl

just wondering, what are you going to do with volume numbers?


----------



## tatopus

Low battery


----------



## Erik1213

I got mine.

Holy crap.

That's the only words I have for this light.


----------



## Gemlab

I got mine too


----------



## dlmorgan999

As others have said, this light is very compact (even smaller than I imagined). Here is a comparison shot with a Nitecore TM11 and a Zebralight SC600.


----------



## BobK

You know, seeing the pictures, one can imagine how small this light is. But that imagination does not come close to just how truly small it is in real life. I love mine, and have not even had it for one whole day yet. The low low, the high high and everything in between really sets this one apart from all the rest.

By eye, the head is exactly the same diameter as the head on a standard D-cell maglite and if placed lens down comes about 2/3 of the way towards the knurling from the switch (on the same mag) It is just ever so slightly shorter than the sc600 I have. This is one impressive little light.

The last couple of years there have been some real improvements in the flashlight arena, and I am sure that most of us have some truly impressive lights that are suitable for EDC. I even have one of the new SC52 and its 500 lumen high (even if for a very limited time) is a mind blower. The SC600, while getting a bit old by today's standards still impresses with its 750 lumens.(again for a limited time.) If I pick up my Thrunite TN30, with its rather large size (by comparison to those already mentioned) one expects it to impress, and impress it does. But when you whip out this little gem, (the S6330) one does not expect it to compare so favorably to that TN30.

I don't see myself going on any search and rescue operations any time soon, and hopefully will never have to. It is more likely that I will never even have much need for the 400 lumen setting in average use. But with a light this small, you have a chance of actually using it, and what's perhaps even more important, actually having it with you. My TN30 is a favorite of mine, and it's nice and all, but I would have to perceive an actual need for such a light to take it out of its case. This S6330 is handy and small enough that it will easily become the light I grab for first, and have just the right amount of light available for whatever the changing needs require.

My hats off to Zebralight for this one. Actually it's off for quite a few of their creations, but this one is somehow special.

YMMV

Bob


----------



## holylight

I stay in singapore.... almost any other comer is lighted up.my lights are only for working purpose. if i were to buy this light, it will belike over kill at work. 
 
however i do like this light alot, is all this yourfault......


----------



## markr6

BobK said:


> You know, seeing the pictures, one can imagine how small this light is. But that imagination does not come close to just how truly small it is in real life. I love mine, and have not even had it for one whole day yet. The low low, the high high and everything in between really sets this one apart from all the rest.
> 
> By eye, the head is exactly the same diameter as the head on a standard D-cell maglite and if placed lens down comes about 2/3 of the way towards the knurling from the switch (on the same mag) It is just ever so slightly shorter than the sc600 I have. This is one impressive little light.
> 
> The last couple of years there have been some real improvements in the flashlight arena, and I am sure that most of us have some truly impressive lights that are suitable for EDC. I even have one of the new SC52 and its 500 lumen high (even if for a very limited time) is a mind blower. The SC600, while getting a bit old by today's standards still impresses with its 750 lumens.(again for a limited time.) If I pick up my Thrunite TN30, with its rather large size (by comparison to those already mentioned) one expects it to impress, and impress it does. But when you whip out this little gem, (the S6330) one does not expect it to compare so favorably to that TN30.
> 
> I don't see myself going on any search and rescue operations any time soon, and hopefully will never have to. It is more likely that I will never even have much need for the 400 lumen setting in average use. But with a light this small, you have a chance of actually using it, and what's perhaps even more important, actually having it with you. My TN30 is a favorite of mine, and it's nice and all, but I would have to perceive an actual need for such a light to take it out of its case. This S6330 is handy and small enough that it will easily become the light I grab for first, and have just the right amount of light available for whatever the changing needs require.
> 
> My hats off to Zebralight for this one. Actually it's off for quite a few of their creations, but this one is somehow special.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> Bob




Awww man come on Bob, it's posts like this that are going to cost me $199 :laughing:


----------



## TEEJ

markr6 said:


> Awww man come on Bob, it's posts like this that are going to cost me $199 :laughing:



But ones like this that tell you to go to the CPF Market Place, find the coupon/discount codes and who to order from that will help defray that $.


----------



## JetskiMark

I just received mine and I agree with all of the praise that has been bestowed upon this light.

I am pleased with the tint and I prefer neutral tints. I am glad that I did not hold out for a neutral or warm version. Of course, I will buy a neutral version too when it becomes available.

My old AW 2200mAh flat tops work perfectly in it too. This is a bonus as I have about a dozen of these cells.

The only thing I don't like is the lanyard attachment point and the lack of trit slots. I'm not into lanyards anyway, so I took off the ring. The threads were really dry too. It squealed in protest when I unscrewed it for the first time. Have some lube handy. And I mean that in a family friendly way.

Another concern is that my SC600w seems rather anemic now by comparison. Ah, first world problems.


----------



## markr6

JetskiMark said:


> Another concern is that my SC600w seems rather anemic now by comparison. Ah, first world problems.



LOL!!!


----------



## don.gwapo

S6330 Dwarf by King & TM11. .







S6330 head is way darker than body but that's fine with me. :huh:. S6330 is the Tiny Monster now. .


----------



## magnum70383

Buy it. This is my first 1000+ lumen light and I LOVE IT. You won't know how small it is until you see and hold it youself!! Turbo burns your eyes when you forget to hold the button for low mode. Fits in my winter jacket, it has become my EDC. Although not a good thrower, it will light up EVERYTHING around you. I'm glad I didn't buy the TK75. 



markr6 said:


> Awww man come on Bob, it's posts like this that are going to cost me $199 :laughing:


----------



## TBuddha

I got mine today, too. Love it. I have one question, though. The light came in the usual plain cardboard box, but did not have anything else in it. No instructions, no extra O-ring, or anything. Is that usual for this light? Also, the unit was screwed together so tightly I thought I would never get it open. I literally had to take a pipe wrench to it. Seems to be working fine, though.

One other question, in researching this purchase over the last couple weeks, I know I saw a beautiful flow chart someone put together describing how the ZebraLight user interface works. I can't locate it now, and in the absence of instructions (except as found in the ZebraLight product description on their web site) I thought it might be useful.


----------



## don.gwapo

@Tbuddha, mine came with instruction manual only and nothing else. 

Since its my first Zebra, don't know if this is normal not to have accessories on this light.


----------



## Johnno

Received mine a few days ago as well. Arrived in a plain brown box, packaged with a custom foam liner insert shaped to hold the light, covered with a foam lid. The box contained just the light and the printed operating instructions. No lanyard or any other accessories. 

Anyway, VERY happy with the fit and finish of the light itself - flawless and high quality anodizing. It is very well designed and its apparent that a lot of thought went into its design/form. A bit difficult to open/unscrew at first - no lube on the threads, but easily solved with a quick spray of silicon lubricant. Great interface and functionality. Very nice beam tint (no green) and the ultra low is REALLY low. The battery test feature is also a nice addition to the interface as well. 

If I had one thing to gripe about its the protruding nub used to mount the lanyard snap ring. I don't especially like lanyards, especially on smaller lights, so I took off the small split ring, but now I'm left with the mounting nub, which is a little like a tit on a bull, basically serving no purpose now. Would have been nice if the mounting point for the lanyard were a little less obtrusive - perhaps incorporated into a large removable ring (one with a small attachment point and one without) that mounted between the head and the body. Again though, this is just a very minor gripe.

Performance is amazing - blindingly bright, which is to be expected as this sucker pumps out as much light as combining three SC600's. It'll have you seeing three glowing suns for quite some time should you be naive enough to turn it on high and shine it at your face. (Not recommended!) 

Anyway, very happy with the purchase. This light is extremely compact and like many other Zebralights, it does not disappoint!


----------



## Phry

I am considering buying the S6330 however I got confirmation the other day from ZL that they do still intend to release the S6330*b*​ within the next few months, which makes me wonder if I should wait for that, or just buy both! :naughty:


----------



## JetskiMark

Phry said:


> I am considering buying the S6330 however I got confirmation the other day from ZL that they do still intend to release the S6330*b*​ within the next few months, which makes me wonder if I should wait for that, or just buy both! :naughty:
> 
> *Welcome to CPF!
> 
> As many here would recommend; buy both. Light Junction still has one in stock at the moment and a 15% discount code on the home page.
> 
> I am enjoying mine. I'm glad that I did not wait for a neutral version although I will buy one when available.*






Johnno said:


> Received mine a few days ago as well. Arrived in a plain brown box, packaged with a custom foam liner insert shaped to hold the light, covered with a foam lid. The box contained just the light and the printed operating instructions. No lanyard or any other accessories.
> 
> *Mine was the same.*
> 
> Anyway, VERY happy with the fit and finish of the light itself - flawless and high quality anodizing. It is very well designed and its apparent that a lot of thought went into its design/form. A bit difficult to open/unscrew at first - no lube on the threads, but easily solved with a quick spray of silicon lubricant. Great interface and functionality. Very nice beam tint (no green) and the ultra low is REALLY low. The battery test feature is also a nice addition to the interface as well.
> 
> If I had one thing to gripe about its the protruding nub used to mount the lanyard snap ring. I don't especially like lanyards, especially on smaller lights, so I took off the small split ring, but now I'm left with the mounting nub, which is a little like a tit on a bull, basically serving no purpose now. Would have been nice if the mounting point for the lanyard were a little less obtrusive - perhaps incorporated into a large removable ring (one with a small attachment point and one without) that mounted between the head and the body. Again though, this is just a very minor gripe.
> 
> *That is the only thing that is annoying me about this light. When I hold it in my left hand with my thumb on the button, the point pokes me in the palm. I have to use my index finger for a left hand grip to avoid this. I am going to grind mine off. I wish I had a mill.*
> 
> Performance is amazing - blindingly bright, which is to be expected as this sucker pumps out as much light as combining three SC600's. It'll have you seeing three glowing suns for quite some time should you be naive enough to turn it on high and shine it at your face. (Not recommended!)
> 
> Anyway, very happy with the purchase. This light is extremely compact and like many other Zebralights, it does not disappoint!


----------



## JB

What's the difference between S6330 and the S6330b?


----------



## Patriot

JB said:


> What's the difference between S6330 and the S6330b?



b= "bare" emitter. No reflectors = shorter


----------



## carl

i thought bare meant no dome on each led but who would run an led without the dome?


----------



## Patriot

carl said:


> i thought bare meant no dome on each led but who would run an led without the dome?



I suppose that could be an interpretation, however, I think the s6330b is supposed to be about 1/2" shorter than the S6330, which would indicate more than de-doming. Now you've got me second guessing myself though...lol.


----------



## Johnno

I believe the "b" version will use a bare emitter (not domed). If so, then it will probably have a slightly warmer tint as to output and will also trade off a bit less Lumen for more Lux. Bottom line, much more smooth/floody beam with little to no hotspot.  And they'll probably ditch the reflectors as well, resulting in a shorter light overall.


----------



## Phry

Bare emitter to me just meant no reflectors, so all flood, no hot spot. 

Doubt they will De dome anything.


----------



## don.gwapo

Just take a look at the H502. The S6330"B" is going to like that. No reflector so its all gonna be flood and 1/2 inch shorter.


----------



## twl

I'm figuring it will be 3 "mules", meaning 3 LEDs on bare boards without any form of reflector or anything except protective window.
In this case, they could also make it smaller diameter head too, as well as shorter.
Since there will be no pretext about having any form of beam, it would seem prudent to reduce size as much as possible for carry.


----------



## TBuddha

I agree that the lanyard feature could have been more elegant. However, I have found some benefit to the set up. When the light is in my right hand, if the tip of my little finger is against the lanyard nub then my thumb is in the correct position for the on/off switch. To a lesser degree, when the nub is against my left palm, I know my thumb is somewhere in the ballpark of the correct position. 

I have only had this little beauty for a couple of days, so it may come to pass that I won't need these physical cues, but for now it has been my experience that the switch is a little hard to find by feel in the dark, so these cues have been helpful to me.


----------



## JKolmo

Hmm, s6330b. Interesting indeed. If available in a W version I would be forced to get another flashlight. Again.


----------



## Phry

don.gwapo said:


> Just take a look at the H502. The S6330"B" is going to like that. No reflector so its all gonna be flood and 1/2 inch shorter.



My thoughts exactly. 

Zebralight also confirmed the H602 will be out within a month or so. 

Two quality 18650 PROPER flood lights. No silly diffusers or "floody" beams. Proper even circle of light. 

Sounds good to me!


----------



## Glock27

Subject: S6330w

We will release it in April, No pre-order available now.

Sincerely,

Lillian Xu


----------



## justanotherguy

Glock27 said:


> Subject: S6330w
> 
> We will release it in April, No pre-order available now.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Lillian Xu


'W'...POW!


----------



## CM2010

Glock27 said:


> Subject: S6330w
> 
> We will release it in *April*, No pre-order available now.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Lillian Xu



So that means July at the earliest? :laughing:


----------



## JKolmo

July? I assume we're talking April 2014 here... ;-)


----------



## Patriot

justanotherguy said:


> 'W'...POW!



I had always wondered how to spell that! ....thanks!


----------



## Zenbaas

JKolmo said:


> July? I assume we're talking April 2014 here... ;-)



Lol ain't that the truth.


----------



## davpet

It would also be great if they drove the W version a bit harder, to really reach at least 2400 lumens. BTW why don't other manufacturers use the lens system we see in the Lupines? An S6330 sized light would easily accommodate 4 or more leds that way, giving higher lumens and/or less heat.

Yesterday I put my S6330 on a digital scale and it showed 417g with batteries. I always thought that it was a bit heavy compared to how small it is, but knew that mass was needed for the proper dissipation of heat. Until I started looking at Lupine's website, where I saw the 2600 lumen betty's weight: 250g WITH batteries. What is going on here? It's even lighter than the Zebra without the batteries, yet I've never heard of any heat problems with them. This data alone makes me want to order it right now..


----------



## twl

davpet said:


> BTW why don't other manufacturers use the lens system we see in the Lupines? An S6330 sized light would easily accommodate 4 or more leds that way, giving higher lumens and/or less heat.
> 
> Yesterday I put my S6330 on a digital scale and it showed 417g with batteries. I always thought that it was a bit heavy compared to how small it is, but knew that mass was needed for the proper dissipation of heat. Until I started looking at Lupine's website, where I saw the 2600 lumen betty's weight: 250g WITH batteries. What is going on here? It's even lighter than the Zebra without the batteries, yet I've never heard of any heat problems with them. This data alone makes me want to order it right now..



There are many manufacturers which use the optical lens systems in singles and in multiples.
People just have to move their attention away from Chinese lights to see them.

The Lupines are one brand that have them. Also Malkoff Wildcats have them and Oveready TorchLab Triple has them, and SureFire uses them in several applications with single TIR, and custom lights such as Mac's Customs has an optical triple, and Kerberos quad drop-ins, EDC+ triple, Lux-RC, etc.


----------



## Fireclaw18

twl said:


> There are many manufacturers which use the optical lens systems in singles and in multiples.
> People just have to move their attention away from Chinese lights to see them.
> 
> The Lupines are one brand that have them. Also Malkoff Wildcats have them and Oveready TorchLab Triple has them, and SureFire uses them in several applications with single TIR, and custom lights such as Mac's Customs has an optical triple, and Kerberos quad drop-ins, EDC+ triple, Lux-RC, etc.



But just about all of those use XP-G or Nichia 219 as their emitters.

What we don't have is a relatively small light using multi-emitter TIR optics and XM-L emitters.


----------



## twl

Fireclaw18 said:


> But just about all of those use XP-G or Nichia 219 as their emitters.
> 
> What we don't have is a relatively small light using multi-emitter TIR optics and XM-L emitters.



Yes of course. That's because the XML is a poor emitter choice for multiple emitters in a small light because of the heat, such as we are seeing here.


----------



## carl

I could be wrong but looking at the beamshots posted here on CPF of the multiple XPG with optics seem to be even MORE flood than the s6330 and less hot spot - now if you want even more flood that's one thing....


----------



## davpet

twl said:


> Yes of course. That's because the XML is a poor emitter choice for multiple emitters in a small light because of the heat, such as we are seeing here.



7x XML, 2600 lumens, 250g. If that's the poor choice, I'd like to see the good one.


----------



## twl

davpet said:


> 7x XML, 2600 lumens, 250g. If that's the poor choice, I'd like to see the good one.



Please allow me to explain.
With 7 XML at 2600 lumens, that equates to about 371 lumens per emitter. This means that they are driven at much lower than maximum, probably for the very reason of heat. Max for an XML is typically between 800-900 lumens at full 3 amp drive.
In fact, they seem to be driven at about half power, which on an XML is going to be around 1.5 amp.

So, we can presume that the light is capable of handling the thermal load of 7 emitters at 1.5 amp drive, by the fact that it is doing that.

Now, an XP-G2 emitter at the same 1.5 amp drive level is going to give you 488 lumens per emitter. And even with losses associated with the optics for OTF figures, the XP-G2 will yield more lumens output for the same amount of heat produced. 
Or, it might potentially yield the same lumens for less heat produced.

The only time that the XML or XM-L2 have significant advantage over the XP-G2 is when they are driven to higher currents than the XP-G2 can withstand. This makes the XML a good choice for lights which can handle the heat of high drive currents, and we commonly see it used in those applications. But even in those single-emitter applications, we STILL see them being stepped-down in output after only a very short time of running, because the lights are unable to cope with the heat from even a single emitter in a moderate size light, or even some full size lights.

Just wanted to clarify my statement.
Thanks.


----------



## davpet

So, why don't they use 7x XP-G2 then? Based on your explanation, XM-Ls are not worth it in this setup.


----------



## twl

davpet said:


> So, why don't they use 7x XP-G2 then? Based on your explanation, XM-Ls are not worth it in this setup.



I don't know why.
There could be a variety of reasons. The first might be that the XP-G2 may not have been available when they designed the light. Maybe the optics were pre-designed to use XML. I really don't know what went into the decision.

But I will definitely give them credit for making a nice light, and also for not driving the LEDs harder than the thermal capability of the light, so that it (presumably) doesn't require any automatic step-downs because of poor thermal performance like so many other lights must do.

So, in the end, I think the light appears to be good quality, and seems to perform quite well, and I like many of the design attributes.


----------



## WmArnold1

Fireclaw18 said:


> But just about all of those use XP-G or Nichia 219 as their emitters.
> 
> What we don't have is a relatively small light using multi-emitter TIR optics and XM-L emitters.



I wholeheartedly agree with you, Fireclaw18!

In addition to the excellent thermal considerations posted by twl and carl; XP-G(2) has a smaller die and it's easier to focus, optically. Note that the XP-G2 datasheet begins with: "The XLamp XP-G2 LED builds on the unprecedented performance of the original XP-G by increasing lumen output up to 20% while providing a single die LED point source for _*precise optical control*_..." [emphasis added]

Imho, the XM-L(2) just requires slightly larger TIR-optics to mitigate its bigger and more complex die; and, that can be done. In fact, I believe that TIR-optics can be crafted for the S6330 that maintain ZL's classic "10° spot / 80° spill" beam-pattern _*and*_ better control the lumen ratio between spot & spill; e.g. the SC600 directs around 50% of its' lumens into the spot-cone and I calculate that TIR-optics should be able to direct around 90% of the lumens into its' spot-cone. Generally; I'm just taking the SC600's beam pattern, dialing-down its' flood intensity to 60% and boosting its' spot intensity up to 540% for when I need more throw than my EDC SC600 provides. Indeed; when I need more throw than five (5) SC600's merged together would provide!

Before the flames begin; consider that the SC600 floods around 400 lm and that famous wall of light is a little excessive when I'm looking for more throw. 10% of 2400 is 240 lm and I can still navigate around with that while my spot is more than 10 meters away. Further, (imho) a 10-20° spot-cone produces a nice throw and directing 2160 lm into a 20° spot-cone implies an ANSII throw of almost 300 meters!

Subsequently, I'm hoping that someone builds TIR-optics for the S6330 so that it can better compete with the mighty Lupine Betty, et. al.


----------



## g.p.

I got my 6330 today (THANKS CELLGUY! :thumbsup and although I was underwhelmed with the bathroom ceiling bounce, it blew me away in the pitch black tonight! 

Only one problem - one of my LEDs is fickering intermittently. It seems to happen mostly after the light is sitting for awhile, when I first turn it on. It happens on all levels and flashes brighter and dimmer than the selected level. Has anybody else experienced this? I'ge swapped the cells around and cleaned all of the contacts, but hasn't helped. Any ideas?  Has anybody peeled the black sticker off of the battery holder? I would like to check out those connections, but I'm affraid it will void the warranty. Shipping from Canada is insane, so if I can easily fix it myself I would like to go that route.


----------



## TEEJ

twl said:


> Please allow me to explain.
> With 7 XML at 2600 lumens, that equates to about 371 lumens per emitter. This means that they are driven at much lower than maximum, probably for the very reason of heat. Max for an XML is typically between 800-900 lumens at full 3 amp drive.
> In fact, they seem to be driven at about half power, which on an XML is going to be around 1.5 amp.
> 
> So, we can presume that the light is capable of handling the thermal load of 7 emitters at 1.5 amp drive, by the fact that it is doing that.
> 
> Now, an XP-G2 emitter at the same 1.5 amp drive level is going to give you 488 lumens per emitter. And even with losses associated with the optics for OTF figures, the XP-G2 will yield more lumens output for the same amount of heat produced.
> Or, it might potentially yield the same lumens for less heat produced.
> 
> The only time that the XML or XM-L2 have significant advantage over the XP-G2 is when they are driven to higher currents than the XP-G2 can withstand. This makes the XML a good choice for lights which can handle the heat of high drive currents, and we commonly see it used in those applications. But even in those single-emitter applications, we STILL see them being stepped-down in output after only a very short time of running, because the lights are unable to cope with the heat from even a single emitter in a moderate size light, or even some full size lights.
> 
> Just wanted to clarify my statement.
> Thanks.



What light are we talking about with seven (7) XML emitters putting out 2600 L?

The S6330 is putting out ~ 2,700 L with the THREE (3) current U3 emitters, which is 900 L per emitter, not 371.


Are you hypothetically saying that if a theoretical light had 7 emitters, running at a lower drive amperage, that this theoretical light would put out X lumens?

Or are you talking about the S6330?

:thinking:


As for the niche for the S6330, and SC600...they are miniaturized floody lights, meant for bright close range tasks. A MULE (b) version therefore makes sense, as does maximizing the lumen out put and beam spread. If you want throw, these are simply not the correct lights for it...multi-emitters increase the effective surface area and reduce throw...whereas the smaller XPG2 is better for throw, but worse for flooding.

You can silken the throw purse you want from the floody sow's ear, but, there are better starting points if you wanted a clean sheet, etc.


----------



## twl

TEEJ said:


> What light are we talking about with seven (7) XML emitters putting out 2600 L?
> 
> The S6330 is putting out ~ 2,700 L with the THREE (3) current U3 emitters, which is 900 L per emitter, not 371.
> 
> 
> Are you hypothetically saying that if a theoretical light had 7 emitters, running at a lower drive amperage, that this theoretical light would put out X lumens?
> 
> Or are you talking about the S6330?
> 
> :thinking:



Lupine Betty is 7 x XML, and that light was brought up as subject matter by Davpet, and I responded. Reading the quoted post that I responded to in my comment would have given you all the answer necessary to know why I posted what I did.
And it also, is germane to the general discussion of heat and thermal management in small lights with high output.

Regarding the 6330 output, I'll wait for some credible testing to verify its output.


----------



## TEEJ

The way ZL doesn't upgrade its data, I think waiting for TurboBB, Selfbuilt, etc's out put tests is a good idea.


----------



## twl

TEEJ said:


> The way ZL doesn't upgrade its data, I think waiting for TurboBB, Selfbuilt, etc's out put tests is a good idea.



What we need is a real test in a real calibrated integrating sphere.
We already have a variety of other subjective tests, including more than one ceiling bounce test, from more than one source.
Another ceiling bounce test isn't going to solve the questions, no matter who does it.


----------



## WmArnold1

TEEJ said:


> What light are we talking about with seven (7) XML emitters putting out 2600 L?



CPF review of Lupine Betty is here.


----------



## Lou Minescence

Poor job glueing down the tin foil reflector.


----------



## markr6

Lou Minescence said:


> Poor job glueing down the tin foil reflector.



I don't get this!!! Is a QC person, or heck, even the person putting it into a box, seeing this and thinking "eeh, it's not THAT bad. The person spending $199 on a flashlight probably won't notice...box it up!"

I've had nothing but 100% perfection from the 4 ZL lights I purchased over the last 18 months. But it's hard to overlook the issues posted time after time on CPF and makes me feel like I'm playing Russian roulette with every order.


----------



## TEEJ

Lou Minescence said:


> Poor job glueing down the tin foil reflector.



I would have thought it was aluminum foil?




Yeah, I'm holding off on this light for the same QA/QC concerns. My SC600 is at ZL for repairs. Other than SF lights, I have never actually had to return a good light for repairs. (I wreck less than good lights all the time, as I experiment on durability...and if they don't "pass", I don't fix them, as then I can't trust them not to fail again, etc) The SC600 lasted pretty long, and I liked it a lot, very handy light...and it was not used in a tactical role, so, I did feel it was worth fixing under warranty.


----------



## Lou Minescence

It's probably a numbers game. If someone actually noticed the defect and shipped it, they probably thought only half of the lights with cosmetics will come back. The buyer must weigh the shipping options price and how much the defect bothers them. 
Or they thought to themselves " not my light".
I hope the answer is a machine puts the light in a box and no one knows.


----------



## g.p.

TEEJ said:


> The way ZL doesn't upgrade its data, I think waiting for TurboBB, Selfbuilt, etc's out put tests is a good idea.


I was a little worried about the output rating after reading some of the posts in this thread, but after taking mine out last night it's obvious that this thing is putting out the rated lumens. I had my sc600, TK45, TK41 and a few p60 xml lights. It was no contest. The 6330 doesn't seem to be that much brighter in a ceiling bounce compared to the sc600, but out in the dark it absolutely blows it away! Finally I have the "wall of light" that my TK45 was supposed to have!

On the QA issue - this is my 5th ZL and the first one with any issues. The others have been flawless, but this one has the emitter flickering issue and also has part of the lens seal out of place. Also has a huge section of the anodizing worn off inside of the battery tube from what looks like grinding tool marks. Any one of these should have been caught by QA. The emitters are perfectly centered though and the tint is great.


----------



## TEEJ

g.p. said:


> I was a little worried about the output rating after reading some of the posts in this thread, but after taking mine out last night it's obvious that this thing is putting out the rated lumens. I had my sc600, TK45, TK41 and a few p60 xml lights. It was no contest. The 6330 doesn't seem to be that much brighter in a ceiling bounce compared to the sc600, but out in the dark it absolutely blows it away! Finally I have the "wall of light" that my TK45 was supposed to have!
> 
> On the QA issue - this is my 5th ZL and the first one with any issues. The others have been flawless, but this one has the emitter flickering issue and also has part of the lens seal out of place. Also has a huge section of the anodizing worn off inside of the battery tube from what looks like grinding tool marks. Any one of these should have been caught by QA. The emitters are perfectly centered though and the tint is great.



Just a guess, w/o ever having seen one, but, given the separate circuits for each LED, and that you already swapped cells around to eliminate a bad cell, etc...that LED's circuit is probably bad. It COULD be a bad contact or loose solder/connection etc....but probably specific to that one LED.


----------



## g.p.

I think you're right. It gets better for a few minutes, but then goes back to being intermittent. Time to test out ZL's customer service.


----------



## carl

Question in general and for those who have both the S6330 and SC600: if you only had $200, which light would you get for all around use - in the house and yard? Yes, one is smaller, the other is brighter, etc.. With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all, I just don't think I will be buyng both so just asking.


----------



## StarHalo

carl said:


> With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all



So you're just buying one light until at least 2015?


----------



## Lou Minescence

carl said:


> Question in general and for those who have both the S6330 and SC600: if you only had $200, which light would you get for all around use - in the house and yard? Yes, one is smaller, the other is brighter, etc.. With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all, I just don't think I will be buyng both so just asking.



That's a tough question. The lights are different form factors. If I could only have one instead of both, the SC 600 would be it.


----------



## Leoht

carl said:


> Question in general and for those who have both the S6330 and SC600: if you only had $200, which light would you get for all around use - in the house and yard? Yes, one is smaller, the other is brighter, etc.. With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all, I just don't think I will be buyng both so just asking.



If you don't already have an EDC I would suggest you buy the SC600 Mk2, the S6330 is just a little to big for pocket carry.

However if you already have an EDC defiantly get the S6330 nothing else comes close!

I love my S6330 it is my favorite light but my SC600w & SC52 get a lot more use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


----------



## dlmorgan999

Lou Minescence said:


> If I could only have one instead of both, the SC 600 would be it.


That's my feeling as well (and I do have both). The SC600 puts out a decent amount of light and its small size makes it more usable in a variety of scenarios.


----------



## JetskiMark

carl said:


> Question in general and for those who have both the S6330 and SC600: if you only had $200, which light would you get for all around use - in the house and yard? Yes, one is smaller, the other is brighter, etc.. With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all, I just don't think I will be buyng both so just asking.



For a $200 budget I would consider an SC600 or H600, an SC52, a quality 3400mAh 18650, a good 14500 and a decent charger.

In my Zebralight collection, I have an S6330, two SC600w's, two H600w's, an SC52 and an old H60. I find a good headlamp to be indispensable when I am working on any of my cars or many situations where I need my hands free. The H600 also works really well hand held and is tiny for an 18650 light. It makes the SC600 seem large by comparison.

I really like my S6330, but the weight becomes noticeable if I walk the dog for a couple of miles. Not unmanageable, but with the SC600 or SC52, I do not even notice the weight at all. I really like my SC52 and will be adding a neutral version to my collection when it becomes available. I will also buy an S6330w when it comes out.

I'm afraid that I have a Zebralight problem. (In addition to many other makes.)


----------



## Lou Minescence

I found my DeLorme GPS carry case makes a nice holster for the SC6330


----------



## holylight

Lou Minescence said:


> I found my DeLorme GPS carry case makes a nice holster for the SC6330


 
nice fit


----------



## CM2010

Can you buy that case on it's own?



Lou Minescence said:


> I found my DeLorme GPS carry case makes a nice holster for the SC6330


----------



## Lou Minescence

CM2010 said:


> Can you buy that case on it's own?



Yes. Go to-
DeLorme .com-
PN series GPS-
Accessories -
Carry case. $19.95
I've used ithe case for a couple days. So far so good. It's made by Niteize.

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtdItemDetail.jsp?item=29308&section=10095


----------



## Augusto

Lou Minescence said:


> That's a tough question. The lights are different form factors. If I could only have one instead of both, the SC 600 would be it.




I agree. That's why I pre ordered the SC660 mkII yesterday. But I hope I will have both in a few months. Maybe the SC52 too......


----------



## AussieRanga

twl said:


> Regarding the 6330 output, I'll wait for some credible testing to verify its output.



Quite the skeptic, twl! Are you trying to spread misinformation and poorly based opinions?

Find me one Zebralight in the history of the brand that hasn't had it's output verified by selfbuilt? If I remember correctly, all of them equal or surpass the manufacturers claimed output so why would this one be any different?

Lots of talk about sc600 mk II along with speculation that this is the equivalent of three sc600's so, on what do you base your opinion you seem all too vocal about? 
As you said, ceiling bounce is unreliable so you are agreeing the observations cannot give conclusive answers - which they don't, they imply lights with more obvious lux are brighter than one with a similar manufacturer rated output, which is EXACTLY the 'results' obtained.

Trolling again perhaps?



carl said:


> Question in general and for those who have both the S6330 and SC600: if you only had $200, which light would you get for all around use - in the house and yard? Yes, one is smaller, the other is brighter, etc.. With the economy projected to be going back down in the next 2 years and all, I just don't think I will be buyng both so just asking.



If you only have $200 then you should not get a s6330 unless you already have 18650's, a charger etc..
I guess that means get the sc600 mk II and a stash of high quality 18650's and a decent charger!!


----------



## twl

AussieRanga said:


> Quite the skeptic, twl! Are you trying to spread misinformation and poorly based opinions?
> 
> Find me one Zebralight in the history of the brand that hasn't had it's output verified by selfbuilt? If I remember correctly, all of them equal or surpass the manufacturers claimed output so why would this one be any different?
> 
> Lots of talk about sc600 mk II along with speculation that this is the equivalent of three sc600's so, on what do you base your opinion you seem all too vocal about?
> As you said, ceiling bounce is unreliable so you are agreeing the observations cannot give conclusive answers - which they don't, they imply lights with more obvious lux are brighter than one with a similar manufacturer rated output, which is EXACTLY the 'results' obtained.
> 
> Trolling again perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> If you only have $200 then you should not get a s6330 unless you already have 18650's, a charger etc..
> I guess that means get the sc600 mk II and a stash of high quality 18650's and a decent charger!!



Well, the 6330 would be one. Because he hasn't reviewed it.
And from all the available photos shown on this thread, along with the ceiling bounce testing by "the germans" and Davpet, it appears that the TM11 is brighter, and the TM11 is only rated at 2000 lumens. And they are owners of these lights, who have tested them themselves, and got these results, and have also shown photographs on the web, and have these questions. I did not raise these questions. The questions come from actual owners.
So, you can take from that what you will.
I'm waiting for something concrete that disproves these various "anecdotal" findings from various parts of the globe and various examples of the 6330, which all seem to show the same thing.

Ceiling bounce tests and visible output photos are all we have to go on at this time. So, if Selfbuilt doesn't test this in an approved and calibrated integrating sphere, then his ceiling bounce test results are no more valid than "the germans". And the tests should be done on a consumer-supplied light from a random vendor or customer, which was not a special "review light" sent from the manufacturer, so that real world consumer results are what is tested.

Why should I jump to possibly erroneous conclusions about this light meeting its advertised output, in the absence of a calibrated result, when all the anecdotal evidence appears that the output is weaker than the competition? And indeed, why should ANYONE do that, or promote doing that?

"Trolling again, perhaps?"
What do you have against facts, and why should we assume that any company is meeting advertised goals when all the available evidence points against it, and there is no evidence to point for it?
Perhaps YOU are the one trying to "spread misinformation and poorly based opinion" as you so cavalierly accuse others of doing. It would certainly seem that way, since I am calling for calibrated testing, and you are wanting people to just accept whatever you want to promote.

I find it very telling that attacks accusing "trolling" are coming against a person calling for a verified calibrated test result, to put the questions to rest.
Asking for an accurate test that gives the true answer could hardly be called "trolling".


----------



## TEEJ

I'd call it skepticism and leave it at that.

The entire thread is speculative anyway.


----------



## holylight

y haven any hero do a full review on this light


----------



## WmArnold1

AussieRanga said:


> Find me one Zebralight in the history of the brand that hasn't had it's output verified by selfbuilt? If I remember correctly, all of them equal or surpass the manufacturers claimed output so why would this [S6330] one be any different?



Well said AussieRanga! I feel the same way and felt that your statement should be stated again. In fact, the only ZL specification creep I've ever seen has been to *increase* their values.

*Although it's good to read about personal experiences and independent opinions, (even bad ones) ZL's longstanding credibility prevails with me until a proper review is published.
*
Skeptics; state your case and stand-down for a proper review. Excessive trash-talk is trolling and you deserve all the backlash you'll get from CPF'ers. Indeed; significant backlash _*defines*_ a troll ==> i.e: if you're getting significant backlash; you're a troll - period - buy whatever you think is best and take your excessive trash-talk somewhere else.


----------



## TEEJ

holylight said:


> y haven any hero do a full review on this light



Because there are not many out yet...and, it takes time to do a review?


----------



## don.gwapo

Really enjoying this light every night. I called it "Shorty Monster". S6330 next to EA4 XM-L2. 






It puts my TM11 and SR King on vacation. .


----------



## pano_maker

Lou Minescence said:


> I found my DeLorme GPS carry case makes a nice holster for the SC6330



Many thanks for this. Just picked one up on Amazon.


----------



## henry1960

With many of you out there that has this light can someone tell me at the 400lm setting how long with it being on will or will not get hot...


----------



## don.gwapo

I've been running mine on H2 1100 lumens for as long as the battery can sustain using the supplied Zebralight battery. The light never even get hot just a tad warm on room temperature 70F with no cooling so running it on 400 lumens will be no problem.


----------



## holylight

TEEJ said:


> Because there are not many out yet...and, it takes time to do a review?



true and agree


----------



## henry1960

don.gwapo said:


> I've been running mine on H2 1100 lumens for as long as the battery can sustain using the supplied Zebralight battery. The light never even get hot just a tad warm on room temperature 70F with no cooling so running it on 400 lumens will be no problem.



Thanks don.gwapo...


----------



## Swede74

In this video from Lightjunction they have 6xCR123 batteries in the carrier. They seem to fit, but are they really supported? On Zebralight's site it says "Working voltage 2.7V-4.2V" (per independent slot / bay) but two fresh CR123 means 6V:thinking: If I had a ZL S6330 I might try a single CR123 + a spacer in an emergency, but I don't think I'd try 2XCR123.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t__oUKd_OOE


----------



## Lou Minescence

It would be a heated warranty argument if you ran CR 123's in the light because of the video. The other points about the light seem correct.


----------



## WmArnold1

Swede74 said:


> In this video from Lightjunction they have 6xCR123 batteries in the carrier. They seem to fit, but are they really supported? On Zebralight's site it says "Working voltage 2.7V-4.2V" (per independent slot / bay) but two fresh CR123 means 6V:thinking: If I had a ZL S6330 I might try a single CR123 + a spacer in an emergency, but I don't think I'd try 2XCR123...



LED driver electronics are something like 80% efficient. So, if the S6330 is driving it's LED's at 30 watts, then the driver is dissipating around 7.5 watts. However, efficiency does down the toilet when grossly exceeding the _*warranted *_working voltage. Given that 6.0 minus 2.7 is more than double 4.2 minus 2.7; I'd expect the driver electronics to rise up to three times farther above ambient than they normally do. i.e. they'll get blistering hot..



Lou Minescence said:


> It would be a heated warranty argument...



Heated being the operative word here.  But, I'm still impressed that ZL's S6330 survived its over-voltage abuse, at least for a little while..


----------



## Lou Minescence

It seems the Light Junction video has been taken off you tube.
I checked the batteries in my S6330 today. They were all purchased together 3 years ago. They were run in different lights. One battery only saw occasional use. Well it showed when I checked the batteries with a volt meter. One was 4 volts, another 3.8 and the third was 3.6v. The battery with 4v was the one that was occasionally used.
You could kind of call the S6330 a poor mans battery capacity tester. Put a known good cell in it with some others and see how they compare. They will all be run at the same level of drain.
I still haven't figured out how to read the battery tester function of the light. Four quick presses from off and the light flashes the LEDs a few times and the last one it only flashes two of them instead of all 3. Morse code 3,3,3,2 ?


----------



## davpet

Lou Minescence said:


> I still haven't figured out how to read the battery tester function of the light. Four quick presses from off and the light flashes the LEDs a few times and the last one it only flashes two of them instead of all 3. Morse code 3,3,3,2 ?



The light tests the batteries separately. If you initiate a battery check, and all 3 leds blink 4 times, it means that all three batteries are at full capacity. If one of them blinks less (3, 2, 1x for example), it means that the battery's capacity, driving that led is lower.


----------



## kolbasz

Can someone share with us a wall shot of the S6330, just to see the spill?


Any news about NW tint?

Thx!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Got one of these in the mail today, what a lil beast, love it!


----------



## magpullin

Never had a ZL. How does the UI compare to the EA4?? I tried one and did not like it very much. Have to lightly half click to get low and end up at times getting blasted with high. 
I think the ZL UI would work better. For those who have tried both, do you agree?

Also, are any retailers selling with a discount. I thought I read someone was offering 15% off retail ($199.00??)at one time. Where are you guys getting the best deal??
Thanks....Matthew


----------



## TEEJ

magpullin said:


> Never had a ZL. How does the UI compare to the EA4?? I tried one and did not like it very much. Have to lightly half click to get low and end up at times getting blasted with high.
> I think the ZL UI would work better. For those who have tried both, do you agree?
> 
> Also, are any retailers selling with a discount. I thought I read someone was offering 15% off retail ($199.00??)at one time. Where are you guys getting the best deal??
> Thanks....Matthew



With CPF discounts, you can get them for ~ $180-ish


----------



## Lou Minescence

magpullin said:


> Never had a ZL. How does the UI compare to the EA4?? I tried one and did not like it very much. Have to lightly half click to get low and end up at times getting blasted with high.
> I think the ZL UI would work better. For those who have tried both, do you agree?
> 
> Also, are any retailers selling with a discount. I thought I read someone was offering 15% off retail ($199.00??)at one time. Where are you guys getting the best deal??
> Thanks....Matthew



The user interface requires a quick push for high and a long push for low. When I'm half asleep and don't push the button long enough, the light will blast 2000+ lumens instead of .2. Very unpleasant. I don't use a Zebralight in the middle of the night.


----------



## davpet

Just received my Lupine Betty TL S, so now I have an other light to compare the S6330's light output to.

This is the 26 deg. version, so the hotspot is less bright than the Zebra's, therefore it shouldn't perform too great in a ceiling bounce test.

I chose two setups, and - as a reference - tested the TM15 as well, with its very bright hotspot.

The results: setup 1: (LUX, 30 sec. after power on)


S6330
Betty TL S
TM 15
108
132
128


Setup 2:


S6330
Betty TL S
TM 15
117
148.8
145.1


Just for fun, if you do the math (for setup 1 for example), and assume that the TM 15 is exactly 2450 lumens, then the Zebra will give 2067 lumens, and the Betty 2526. Lupine claims the Betty to be 2600, and based on these measurements, it is believable.


----------



## magpullin

Lou Minescence said:


> The user interface requires a quick push for high and a long push for low. When I'm half asleep and don't push the button long enough, the light will blast 2000+ lumens instead of .2. Very unpleasant. I don't use a Zebralight in the middle of the night.


_
So if I push down and keep holding it down I am assured of it coming on in Low and just staying there or will it start cycling through the modes? _



TEEJ said:


> With CPF discounts, you can get them for ~ $180-ish



Is there a code for this and which dealer if offering this price??


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Someone said once hold it down and say zebra. That's long enough to release and it'll stay on low, if u hold it down it will cycle modes. LMH, LMH.


----------



## TEEJ

Go to CPFM, and go to the Good Deals thread, and the first post in the thread is a running list of the discount codes for each vendor.

Then, look for the threads that those vendors have in the DEALER section, and, take the best combo of discount and starting price/free delivery, etc...that is offered that day.


----------



## magpullin

TEEJ said:


> Go to CPFM, and go to the Good Deals thread, and the first post in the thread is a running list of the discount codes for each vendor.
> 
> Then, look for the threads that those vendors have in the DEALER section, and, take the best combo of discount and starting price/free delivery, etc...that is offered that day.



Aah... Never even knew this was over there. Thanks for that info, will change many of my future purchases I'm sure.


----------



## TEEJ

magpullin said:


> Aah... Never even knew this was over there. Thanks for that info, will change many of my future purchases I'm sure.



Another tip...look in the CPFM WTS threads. People do a lot of "catch and release", where they buy a light to see what its like, and then sell it to be able to try another one...and they are selling all but new lights at used prices. They are also selling stuff they bought before they realized they needed to come up with $ to pay their taxes, alimony, bookie, etc.



I buy MOST stuff used for that reason.


----------



## Lou Minescence

magpullin said:


> _
> So if I push down and keep holding it down I am assured of it coming on in Low and just staying there or will it start cycling through the modes? _
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a code for this and which dealer if offering this price??



The modes will cycle past low if you push and hold the switch down longer than a second. 
The user interface is easy to learn and works well one handed. I just don't trust not getting blasted in the night because my reflexes did not push the button long enough for low when I am half awake. 
Check the discount codes and find a dealer with the best deal on shipping. Not all Zebralight dealers have the light in stock yet. You may have to wait to get the best price.


----------



## magpullin

Lou Minescence said:


> The modes will cycle past low if you push and hold the switch down longer than a second.
> The user interface is easy to learn and works well one handed. I just don't trust not getting blasted in the night because my reflexes did not push the button long enough for low when I am half awake.
> Check the discount codes and find a dealer with the best deal on shipping. Not all Zebralight dealers have the light in stock yet. You may have to wait to get the best price.



Ok. This is what I thought. I think I will like this UI better than the EA4. Although similar, this one seems a little easier to get to the desired mode without a mistake.

Thanks for all the good info, you guys are a great help :twothumbs


----------



## TEEJ

OK, its time:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...Triple-XM-L-2400Lm-Flashlight-Interest-Thread

$179.99 for S6330, delivered.


----------



## markr6

COME ON S6330w!!!


----------



## juplin

Lou Minescence said:


> The user interface requires a quick push for high and a long push for low. When I'm half asleep and don't push the button long enough, the light will blast 2000+ lumens instead of .2. Very unpleasant. I don't use a Zebralight in the middle of the night.


That's the worst part of Zebralight's UI, followed by constant ON/OFF of medium mode in a period of time such as night at home.
Olight S20's UI similar to Zebralight's but augmented with mode memory is better in every aspect.


----------



## TEEJ

juplin said:


> That's the worst part of Zebralight's UI, followed by constant ON/OFF of medium mode in a period of time such as night at home.
> Olight S20's UI similar to Zebralight's but augmented with mode memory is better in every aspect.



Except that I hate memory mode.



On the SC600 for example, I leave it on the turbo hi m L factory defaults, and its fine.


----------



## juplin

TEEJ said:


> Except that I hate memory mode.
> 
> 
> 
> On the SC600 for example, I leave it on the turbo hi m L factory defaults, and its fine.


I understand. That's why I suggest that Zebralight should add an option with mode memory feature that will please everyone. :naughty:


----------



## holylight

maxrep12 said:


> Volume occupied by a can of coke: 390ml
> 
> Volume occupied by an s6330: 190ml



which has smaller volume? ea4 or s6330


----------



## rmteo

holylight said:


> which has smaller volume? ea4 or s6330


EA4 - 162ml


----------



## TEEJ

holylight said:


> which has smaller volume? ea4 or s6330



If its 164 cc for the EA4, that yields ~ 5.3 lumens per cc

If the S6330 is 190 cc, that yields ~ 14.2 lumens per cc, making the S6330 almost three times smaller for its output.




Or, an inefficient design like the EA4 would need to be ~ 3x larger to match the output of the S6330, etc.


----------



## JetskiMark

TEEJ said:


> If its 164 cc for the EA4, that yields ~ 5.3 lumens per cc
> 
> If the S6330 is 190 cc, that yields ~ 14.2 lumens per cc, making the S6330 almost three times smaller for its output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, an inefficient design like the EA4 would need to be ~ 3x larger to match the output of the S6330, etc.



Interesting way to rate lights. I like it.

I wonder what the LCC is on the SC52 with a 14500? How about the LCC of the Nitecore TM26?


----------



## holylight

TEEJ said:


> If its 164 cc for the EA4, that yields ~ 5.3 lumens per cc
> 
> If the S6330 is 190 cc, that yields ~ 14.2 lumens per cc, making the S6330 almost three times smaller for its output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, an inefficient design like the EA4 would need to be ~ 3x larger to match the output of the S6330, etc.



tks for the reply. I think I will wait for zl or other better multiple aa light. I really like control and feel of zl light though.


----------



## TEEJ

JetskiMark said:


> Interesting way to rate lights. I like it.
> 
> I wonder what the LCC is on the SC52 with a 14500? How about the LCC of the Nitecore TM26?



Its simply one way to judge the form factor relative to the output.

Some lights have decent total output, but are very large...and, you could get the same out put from a much smaller, more easily carried light....or, get massively more output for that size, etc.


A lot has to do with portability. If a light is too bulky to simply slip into a pocket, you will tend to not have it with you.


The out put of a light you left behind is ~ zero.


----------



## rmteo

JetskiMark said:


> I wonder what the LCC is on the SC52 with a 14500? How about the LCC of the Nitecore TM26?


TM26 - 429ml = 8.15L/ml, SC52 - 32.4ml = 15.4L/ml (14500) = 8.6L/ml (AA).


----------



## TEEJ

rmteo said:


> TM26 - 429ml = 8.15L/ml, SC52 - 32.4ml = 15.4L/ml (14500) = 8.6L/ml (AA).



Notice that the Li-ion lights are putting out a lot more L per cc than their Nimh counterparts...simply due to the smaller form factors that higher energy density allows.


----------



## rmteo

Although the SC52 with NiMH still beats the TM26 with Li-Ion.


----------



## TEEJ

rmteo said:


> Although the SC52 with NiMH still beats the TM26 with Li-Ion.



Well, 280 L/32.4 cc = ~ 8.6 L/cc, which the TM26 can't match. Of course, the more heat a high out put light produces, the larger it must be to handle the heat...and multi-LED light needs room to mount the extra LED's, etc, which of course means that proportionally, they must have a proportionally larger form factor.


----------



## dlmorgan999

TEEJ said:


> The out put of a light you left behind is ~ zero.


 :thumbsup:


----------



## rmteo

TEEJ said:


> Well, 280 L/32.4 cc = ~ 8.6 L/cc, which the TM26 can't match. Of course, the more heat a high out put light produces, the larger it must be to handle the heat...and multi-LED light needs room to mount the extra LED's, etc, which of course means that proportionally, they must have a proportionally larger form factor.


Huh??


----------



## TEEJ

rmteo said:


> Huh??



OK, think of it this way...if an ant were the size of an elephant, it couldn't even move, even though, pound for pound, the ant is "stronger".

The larger amount of thermal mass, and reflector space, a larger light needs to work, the less L per cc it can produce, as more and more volume, proportionally, is essentially devoted to infrastructure.


----------



## rmteo

TEEJ said:


> OK, think of it this way...if an ant were the size of an elephant, it couldn't even move, even though, pound for pound, the ant is "stronger".
> 
> The larger amount of thermal mass, and reflector space, a larger light needs to work, the less L per cc it can produce, as more and more volume, proportionally, is essentially devoted to infrastructure.


Huh?? But you calculated the S6330 as 14.2L/ml.


----------



## TEEJ

rmteo said:


> Huh?? But you calculated the S6330 as 14.2L/ml.



He had asked about the larger TM26 though.


----------



## rmteo

TEEJ said:


> He had asked about the larger TM26 though.


So your ant/elephant theory applies to the TM26 but not to the SC6330?


----------



## davpet

190x14.2 = 2698.. I feel that's an overstatement for the S6330's output.

BTW, it seems that the "ant/elephant theory" doesn't apply to the Betty TL S, 'cause it manages to outperform the TM11, 15, and the S6330, whilst being almost 170 grams lighter than the S6330. The Zebra is the best 3 xm-l light, but overall, even compared to it, I can't believe how tiny and light the Lupine is. Even its output decreases slower, if left on "turbo", despite having much smaller mass. How they've achieved this is a mystery.

Of course, the Zebra's lower lows are very useful, and make it an unbeatable all-round light. Love them both. The TMs however, are on a long vacation..


----------



## carl

I doubt the Lupines have the same amount of runtime as the ZL since it only has 2x18650 - another reason why its lighter with one less battery. Also, the Lupines leave your wallet lighter too


----------



## davpet

Of course, runtimes are difficult to compare, 'cause they both have automatic thermal protection that will slowly decrease output if the light gets too hot. And their output is also not exactly the same.. and of course, as you mentioned, two vs three batteries.  As for the mass, 283 grams without batteries (Zebra) vs 250, with them (Lupine). My Zebra is 417g with 3 batteries, that makes one cell cc. 44.7 grams. So, with two, its weight would be 372.4g. Still 122.4g heavier than the Betty.

Oh yes, the wallet problem.. I sure hope no new super light will be released in the next few months, 'cause I'll go bankrupt.


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> Of course, runtimes are difficult to compare, 'cause they both have automatic thermal protection that will slowly decrease output if the light gets too hot. And their output is also not exactly the same.. and of course, as you mentioned, two vs three batteries.  As for the mass, 283 grams without batteries (Zebra) vs 250, with them (Lupine). My Zebra is 417g with 3 batteries, that makes one cell cc. 44.7 grams. So, with two, its weight would be 372.4g. Still 122.4g heavier than the Betty.
> 
> Oh yes, the wallet problem.. *I sure hope no new super light will be released in the next few months, 'cause I'll go bankrupt*.



Does that mean you already ordered your Deft-X?


----------



## davpet

TEEJ said:


> Does that mean you already ordered your Deft-X?



Wow, I didn't even know about this light until now.. Actually, I was never really into throwers, but after reading those specs.. Oh, well, I would probably be fine if I had nothing else but the led light on my mobile phone.


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> Wow, I didn't even know about this light until now.. Actually, I was never really into throwers, but after reading those specs.. Oh, well, *I would probably be fine if I had nothing else but the led light on my mobile phone.*



Bite your tongue!


----------



## holylight

holylight said:


> tks for the reply. I think I will wait for zl or other better multiple aa light. I really like control and feel of zl light though.



ZL will release a 3 x aa S5310 next month and this is from reliable source


----------



## Phry

holylight said:


> ZL will release a 3 x aa S5310 next month and this is from reliable source



They should concentrate on having the existing models in stock first!


----------



## Warsaw

Mine S6330 was delivered few days ago. It's extremely awesome light. First impression after unpacking is like: "what the f..., how can this be so small?". After pressing "on" for the first time i wasn't disappointed, wall of light. 
For people that wants small flashlight, a lot of lumens, and don't need heavy throw it's great choice  
At that moment i have only 3x18650 so I was not able to compare it at full power to sc600, but i did comparison - 1 led in s6330 vs sc600, and my impression is that s6330 gives a bit more lumens (not measured though, just a feeling).


----------



## holylight

Phry said:


> They should concentrate on having the existing models in stock first!



Maybe u can find what u are looking for here  
http://www.zebralight.com/


----------



## Phry

holylight said:


> Maybe u can find what u are looking for here
> http://www.zebralight.com/



No. 

SC600 mkii and S6330 out of stock.

Why release a new light when you can't even supply your existing models?


----------



## TEEJ

Phry said:


> No.
> 
> SC600 mkii and S6330 out of stock.
> 
> Why release a new light when you can't even supply your existing models?



Amateurs.

My S6330 should arrive this week.

You guys just need to know where to look.

And they DO provide their EXISTING models, you just want a PARTICULAR set of models that are in short supply due to high demand and manufacturing requirements, etc.

You're essentially saying that the car dealer can't take an order for a new model until he gets in more of the old models?



That's not typically how it works...its all on a rolling basis in manufacturing.

Is it BETTER if they can keep up? Sure, they make more money that way, faster, before their competitors come out with models that you might decide to get instead.



From what I understand the S6330 production was complicated, and the lines were tied up finishing that up, which delayed the production of the new SC600 as well. 

I believe that by April-ish, ZL will be cranking things out on a more steady basis.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

This light is great. So bright, yet goes so dim. I am really enjoying this pocket beast.


----------



## Lou Minescence

PoliceScannerMan said:


> This light is great. So bright, yet goes so dim. I am really enjoying this pocket beast.



Agreed. And the size makes it perfect for carrying. I'm still using the holster for my GPS and it fits like a glove.


----------



## Warsaw

I tested runtime at H2 1100 lumens, with 3xAW 3,1 mAh. At home with fan cooling.
Zebralight declare "temperature regulated output, typical runtime 3 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature"

1st led stepped down after 2:45:20
2nd after 2:48:50
3rd after 2:55:30

One of the 18650 was almost brand new (bought 2-3 weeks ago), rest of them are 1 year old.

So ZL estimations looks quite accurate.


----------



## davpet

Warsaw said:


> I tested runtime at H2 1100 lumens, with 3xAW 3,1 mAh. At home with fan cooling.
> Zebralight declare "temperature regulated output, typical runtime 3 hrs, runtime varies greatly with ambient temperature"
> 
> 1st led stepped down after 2:45:20
> 2nd after 2:48:50
> 3rd after 2:55:30
> 
> One of the 18650 was almost brand new (bought 2-3 weeks ago), rest of them are 1 year old.
> 
> So ZL estimations looks quite accurate.



Yes, those are excellent runtimes. Considering that the Nitecore TM11 manages 3 hours at 1100 lumens with 4 18650s.

I think the runtime time differences of the leds come from the fact that they are not driven at exactly the same level. With my lux meter (with only 1 battery in the Zebra) I measured that on all levels, the led closest to the switch is the most powerful. Only a minor difference, but it's there.


----------



## carl

I'm trying to decide if the battery tube is too big for me or not. Earlier in this thread, the battery tube was expected to be 44.4mm = 1.75 inches which is also the standard diameter of the cardboard center of a toilet paper roll. Are those numbers on the battery tube diameter correct? Thanks.


----------



## JetskiMark

The knurled portion of mine measures 1.763 inches.



carl said:


> I'm trying to decide if the battery tube is too big for me or not. Earlier in this thread, the battery tube was expected to be 44.4mm = 1.75 inches which is also the standard diameter of the cardboard center of a toilet paper roll. Are those numbers on the battery tube diameter correct? Thanks.


----------



## Calcustom

I really like all the different lumen levels on the s6330 and its so small and bright. 

Carl, If I remove the battery tube I can slide a cardboard tube from a roll of toilet over the batteries with no problem.

Just a size comparison photo Nitecore TM 26 / Zebralight s6330


----------



## Warsaw

Yesterday one of XML's died without any reason  
6 weeks of waiting, 5 days of using, and now i will wait probably 2+ months until it will go back to China and arrive again :x

My second ZL, and second one that required replacement....

ZebraLight is capable of making awesome products - electronic (low mode, runtimes) and look is imho great. Is it my bad luck or the quality could be better?

I will miss s6330, this is really cool item.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Wow. Sorry to hear that! I have 3 headlamps and 3 flashlights from ZL with never a single problem.


----------



## carl

JetskiMark said:


> The knurled portion of mine measures 1.763 inches.



thanks - exactly what I needed.


----------



## carl

Calcustom said:


> I really like all the different lumen levels on the s6330 and its so small and bright.
> 
> Carl, If I remove the battery tube I can slide a cardboard tube from a roll of toilet over the batteries with no problem.
> 
> Just a size comparison photo Nitecore TM 26 / Zebralight s6330



Question: What sticks out sideways more - the batteries or the 3 posts of the carrier? Thanks.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

They look about equal to me. Either way it's awfully close.


----------



## carl

PoliceScannerMan said:


> They look about equal to me. Either way it's awfully close.



ok, thanks


----------



## carl

Warsaw said:


> Yesterday one of XML's died without any reason
> 6 weeks of waiting, 5 days of using, and now i will wait probably 2+ months until it will go back to China and arrive again :x
> 
> My second ZL, and second one that required replacement....
> 
> ZebraLight is capable of making awesome products - electronic (low mode, runtimes) and look is imho great. Is it my bad luck or the quality could be better?
> 
> I will miss s6330, this is really cool item.



Goes to show, with multiple emitters and drivers, the complexity and number of parts that can malfunction goes up - in this case by 300%. Sure, running three XMLs may be more efficient than, say, a single SST-90, but 3 of everything - or at least 3 of each main component - looks to be a major weakness of these multiple emitter lights.


----------



## TEEJ

My S6330 is due to arrive on Friday.




I always wonder about the pros and cons of multiple emitters, albeit I think with current technology, they are probably the best way to get massive lumens, as we don't have cost effective single emitter solutions that can pump out thousands of lumens.

As the light has redundant circuitry, one set for each LED/Cell...its probably MORE likely to be able to at least produce some light even if one or two go south on you.

So, while theoretically, more components = more opportunities to break....in reality, I don't really see my multi-emitter lights having reliability issues OR my single LED lights.

So, redundant systems = higher chance of at retaining at least some function in an emergency

AND

More parts = more parts to break/less chance to retain at least some function in an emergency. 

AND

Less parts to break = higher reliability

Single circuit/LED system = if it breaks, its dark.




IE: It might not really matter in the overall scheme of things.


----------



## carl

Yes, redundancy is key, just like redundant systems on a Navy Jet flying over the vast Pacific - although for a flashlight situation, maybe not quite as pressing. You have a good point. Better to have one or two out of three LEDs go out rather than one out of one.


----------



## juplin

carl said:


> Yes, redundancy is key, just like redundant systems on a Navy Jet flying over the vast Pacific - although for a flashlight situation, maybe not quite as pressing. You have a good point. Better to have one or two out of three LEDs go out rather than one out of one.


Redundancy with LED's and circuits is always welcomed. But the critical component in S6330 shall be the button, which I don't feel very comfortable for my two SC600/W. The button of my SC600/W will go crazy sometimes, then will be back to normal a few minutes later. I can't fully trust the button.


----------



## twl

I spent a while last night playing around with a new 6330 at my ZL dealer friend's house.
I thought that the button was a lot better than the Zebralights that I had tried out in the past.

It's a cute little XML triple. A bit too fat for pocketability, though.
Brightness was good, but I'm accustomed to bright lights, so it was okay. My initial impression was that it could actually be hitting the claimed 2400 lumen mark, or close to it.
It was quite cold last night, so I didn't notice any issues with stepping down, and we didn't have it on for any long periods at any one time.

I didn't buy one, but I liked it better than I thought that I would.


----------



## davpet

carl said:


> Goes to show, with multiple emitters and drivers, the complexity and number of parts that can malfunction goes up - in this case by 300%. Sure, running three XMLs may be more efficient than, say, a single SST-90, but 3 of everything - or at least 3 of each main component - looks to be a major weakness of these multiple emitter lights.



Actually, I would expect any of today's single or multi (be it 2x, 3x, or 100x...) emitter led lights to easily last a lifetime without any problem. Especially in this price range. Even professional, everyday use should be no problem for a light like this. I still have some of my old halogen flashlights I got as a gift from my parents over 20 years ago, and they still work with the original bulb. Granted, I only use flashlights for fun.


----------



## Warsaw

Actually, this flashlight on turbo is getting hot very quickly (not suprising taking into account small size of light vs output). At home, without cooling it's matter of minutes until it reach 55C. I didn't noticed any stepping down. I was trying to make time-lapse using tablet with 1 frame every 12 seconds with fixed settings, but still didn't seen a difference in output, so I decided to pass at 60C. I'm not sure if temperature regulation works properly, if it let flashlight to get so hot (past 60 degree) without reducing output radicaly, letting temprature to still grows rapidly. TM26 at this point cuts output by half... Or maby someone at forum went above 60C and observed radical reduction of output at some point?


By the way - what is safe temperature for that kind of flashlight?


----------



## davpet

Warsaw said:


> Actually, this flashlight on turbo is getting hot very quickly (not suprising taking into account small size of light vs output). At home, without cooling it's matter of minutes until it reach 55C. I didn't noticed any stepping down. I was trying to make time-lapse using tablet with 1 frame every 12 seconds with fixed settings, but still didn't seen a difference in output, so I decided to pass at 60C. I'm not sure if temperature regulation works properly, if it let flashlight to get so hot (past 60 degree) without reducing output radicaly, letting temprature to still grows rapidly. TM26 at this point cuts output by half... Or maby someone at forum went above 60C and observed radical reduction of output at some point?
> 
> 
> By the way - what is safe temperature for that kind of flashlight?



The S6330 will never step down like the Nitecores, 'cause it uses a 288 brightness level thermal regulation. But it works, I tried it with a lux meter (I also posted the data on this forum). Also, a cool emitter is always brighter, so that's an other reason the output drops. I may be wrong, but I think the electronics should be able to easily handle 55-60C. I think the first thing light manufacturers take into consideration when setting the thermostat is that it should not be uncomfortable to hold.


----------



## Warsaw

davpet said:


> The S6330 will never step down like the Nitecores, 'cause it uses a 288 brightness level thermal regulation. But it works, I tried it with a lux meter



Indeed, I would just expect major reduction in output, (when flashlight is getting too hot to keep in hand) that would let to cool the light, or at least keep it at same max temp level. And i didn't noticed it. 

The question is - what will happen if you press turbo and go away without turning it off. Will it reach some particular temperature level (65C? 70C?), and than reduce output enough to cool/keep temp on maximum safe level? Or will it still keep growing - that would mean that temp regulation doesn't work properly in my opionion.

Another thing im wondering about - is it possible to even destroy flashlight electronics by reaching some high level of temperature (like 80C for example)? Or those safe regulations are only to avoid burning of hand/overheating 18650s? For example - core of my graphic card easily reach 100C+ in stress and it doesn't make failure of electronic.

None of my previous flashlights had so high potential of geting hot in few moments. Tk70 is able to reach 60-62C in room after 20+minutes on turbo, but thats it. S6330 is small heater


----------



## TEEJ

Mine arrived yesterday (A day early).

The defaults are H-M-L, which work fine. I didn't see an additional setting for "Turbo" or anything in the manual that mentioned "Turbo".

It may be that because of the massive number of brightness levels it has programmed into it, that the HIGH is simply as high as it goes, and it will incrementally set-down as needed to not cook off.


----------



## Warsaw

My mistake in naming. By "turbo" I mean not confirmed yet 2400 lumens.

Regards
Warsaw


----------



## davpet

TEEJ said:


> Mine arrived yesterday (A day early).
> 
> The defaults are H-M-L, which work fine. I didn't see an additional setting for "Turbo" or anything in the manual that mentioned "Turbo".
> 
> It may be that because of the massive number of brightness levels it has programmed into it, that the HIGH is simply as high as it goes, and it will incrementally set-down as needed to not cook off.



"Turbo" is just max output. H1 in this case.  How do you like the light?


----------



## davpet

Warsaw said:


> Indeed, I would just expect major reduction in output, (when flashlight is getting too hot to keep in hand) that would let to cool the light, or at least keep it at same max temp level. And i didn't noticed it.
> 
> The question is - what will happen if you press turbo and go away without turning it off. Will it reach some particular temperature level (65C? 70C?), and than reduce output enough to cool/keep temp on maximum safe level? Or will it still keep growing - that would mean that temp regulation doesn't work properly in my opionion.
> 
> Another thing im wondering about - is it possible to even destroy flashlight electronics by reaching some high level of temperature (like 80C for example)? Or those safe regulations are only to avoid burning of hand/overheating 18650s? For example - core of my graphic card easily reach 100C+ in stress and it doesn't make failure of electronic.
> 
> None of my previous flashlights had so high potential of geting hot in few moments. Tk70 is able to reach 60-62C in room after 20+minutes on turbo, but thats it. S6330 is small heater



Nitecore TM15 is the same. It can run for around 20 minutes in room temperature without cooling on max 2450 lumens, before it reduces output. The S6330's thermal regulation will not let the light heat infinitely. Also it uses PID thermal regulation, like some home thermostats.


----------



## TEEJ

davpet said:


> "Turbo" is just max output. H1 in this case.  How do you like the light?



So far, I like it. I have not had a chance to really check it out though other than a bit of shining around, etc. It might be 2700 L if its 3 U3's.


----------



## Bag681

Okay so now on the zebralight website for the s6330, it says
Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Specs will be updated later with data from production samples.
Whats the difference between this cree and the previous one? Im wondering the lumen output difference as well as efficiency.

Please do not change thread title. Title changed back to original.


----------



## TEEJ

Bag681 said:


> Okay so now on the zebralight website for the s6330, it says
> Jan 7, 2013, last minute changes: all S6330s come with XM-L U3 LEDs. Specs will be updated later with data from production samples.
> Whats the difference between this cree and the previous one? Im wondering the lumen output difference as well as efficiency.
> 
> Please do not change thread title. Title changed back to original.




Difference:

3 x 800 L = 2,400 L

3 X 900 L = 2,700 L


----------



## carl

Warsaw said:


> Actually, this flashlight on turbo is getting hot very quickly (not suprising taking into account small size of light vs output). At home, without cooling it's matter of minutes until it reach 55C. I didn't noticed any stepping down. I was trying to make time-lapse using tablet with 1 frame every 12 seconds with fixed settings, but still didn't seen a difference in output, so I decided to pass at 60C. I'm not sure if temperature regulation works properly, if it let flashlight to get so hot (past 60 degree) without reducing output radicaly, letting temprature to still grows rapidly. TM26 at this point cuts output by half... Or maby someone at forum went above 60C and observed radical reduction of output at some point?
> 
> 
> By the way - what is safe temperature for that kind of flashlight?



Question: Does the button get hot along with the rest of the head?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

No it does not.


----------



## TEEJ

carl said:


> Question: Does the button get hot along with the rest of the head?



NO.



Actually, I just ran it on hi for an hour, and it never got too hot to hold the entire time, and, the button was cooler than the head. The face/glass was not that hot either. Overall, the temp management is first rate.


----------



## carl

Sounds good - no hot button. thanks.


----------



## KDM

I can't wait to buy one, but the only way I will is if the "w" version is ever released. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Zenbaas

KDM said:


> I can't wait to buy one, but the only way I will is if the "w" version is ever released. Fingers crossed.



Guys what would be the difference in actual use between this version and the bare emitter version.?


----------



## davpet

Okay, I just run the S6330 and then the Lupine Betty TL S at the same spot with a lux meter for 20 minutes, with no cooling, at room temp 22 celsius. I think this will answer the questions about how the Zebra regulates output as it starts to get hot. Enjoy! 

We can see, that at some point, the Zebra almost, and the lupine more than halved its initial output, but interestingly, the brightness changes are so smooth, that they are not detectable just by looking at the reflected light. Also, both were pretty warm after 20 minutes, but the Zebra was a bit cooler. And the buttons were also warm on each. 


Lupine Betty TL S (lux)TimeZebralight S6330 (lux)270730 sec230226451 min.22552610221922580321402529420952501520102496618952246718401993818581732916821464101576meter powered off 
11161711341214841128131544121214146915071514281670161471168617141116731813481662191452

1652201392


----------



## JetskiMark

davpet said:


> Okay, I just run the S6330 and then the Lupine Betty TL S at the same spot with a lux meter for 20 minutes, with no cooling, at room temp 22 celsius. <Snip> *22 °C is equal to 71.6 °F*



Thank you for that. I have long admired the Lupine lineup but never wanted to spend the amount required to buy one. I am happy with my S6330 and it's nice to see that I am getting somewhat close to the output of the Betty for a fraction of the price. Add in the excellent low settings and the non-proprietary batteries and I am very pleased.




KDM said:


> I can't wait to buy one, but the only way I will is if the "w" version is ever released. Fingers crossed.



I was going to do the same. But when I found a dealer that had them in stock and a $35 discount code, I could not resist for $165 shipped. I plan on adding a neutral version to my collection if it ever becomes available.


----------



## Warsaw

Davpet, thanks for the table. Interesting.
Actually you can notice steps of output on white wall. They are very very small, and quite often (every 1-2 seconds)


----------



## magpullin

Mr. annoying, useless, little lanyard clip... Meet Mr. grinder.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Nice work!


----------



## amaretto

> Thank you for that. I have long admired the Lupine lineup but never wanted to spend the amount required to buy one. I am happy with my S6330 and it's nice to see that I am getting somewhat close to the output of the Betty for a fraction of the price.





> Yesterday one of XML's died without any reason
> 6 weeks of waiting, 5 days of using, and now i will wait probably 2+ months until it will go back to China and arrive again :x
> 
> My second ZL, and second one that required replacement....


 
One of the reasons for the difference in price? There it is. Ever heard of a defective Lupine?
China mass-production vs. handmade


----------



## Warsaw

I agree and i disagree at the same time 
It's still 200$ flashlight, so we should expect top quality in my opinion.


----------



## xed888

amaretto said:


> One of the reasons for the difference in price? There it is. Ever heard of a defective Lupine?
> China mass-production vs. handmade



Lupine is quite expensive so not many people buy it so sample size will be smaller than ZL.


----------



## maxrep12

amaretto said:


> One of the reasons for the difference in price? There it is. Ever heard of a defective Lupine?
> China mass-production vs. handmade



Yes, I have owned two defective lupines(Edison and Betty). I have never had a defective ZL. 

Lupines are great, though.


----------



## TEEJ

maxrep12 said:


> Yes, I have owned two defective lupines(Edison and Betty). I have never had a defective ZL.
> 
> Lupines are great, though.



So, hand made defective French crap lights.



LOL

Seriously, ANY light, or any product for that matter, CAN be defective/not perfect.

If you have a 0.001% problem rate, that's 1 out of a thousand....so if you sell 10,000 lights, that might mean 10 of them have complaints.

If you sell 1,000,000 lights, that's 1,000 complaints with the same quality control level....enough to show up on forums, etc.


There is a tendency on ALL forums for any negative comments to carry a disproportionate weight, as people are typically thinking very hard about if they should get something...and if every comment is positive, they ride that wave...but, one negative that hits a hot button for them, and the light/product, is no longer in contention for a purchase.


The Klarus XT11 had a batch of plastic cigar grip rings that apparently were fragile, and there were approximately 8 posts where people said their ring broke.

From that, the light was labeled as having a weak ring....even though no one else had that issue. They did switch back to aluminum rings, but, the unbroken plastic rings stayed unbroken....etc.

So, out of perhaps 100's of thousands of lights, ~ 8 negative experiences essentially undid the 1,000's of positive experiences others had with the same product.


Its a forum-thing...and, completely normal. Anecdotal evidence is what a forum typically provides, and, there is no correction for statistical weight...its randomly posted, etc....and the reader needs to interpret the weighting as appropriate, which most don't.

So, those who like/love a product tend to discount posts in contradiction to their own experiences ("I smoked for 50 years, and it never hurt ME"), and those that either dislike a product or prefer a competitive product, tend to accept anything negative and filter out anything positive, and so forth...as that procedure tends to help support/maintain their opinion.

So if you are a fan of DX-type stuff, you tend to look for posts that say "My DX light works great but my SureFire broke", and get all warm and fuzzy as it made you feel good about your DX lights....but, the same post makes a guy who paid $400 for the SF go apoplectic and provide examples of the opposite experience, etc. 

As a forum is NOT representative except by accident, you can get a thread where 100 people say their crap-fire 1x 18650 10,000 mah cells are amazingly great and one guy says they're bogus...and if you're a newb, you'd see 100 FOR the crap-fire 10,000 mah 18650, and only one against...and, weigh them....to decide if YOU should get a crap-fire, and so forth.


So, "I had one that broke, but my XYZ never did" type threads are, well, needed to be taken as anecdotal rather than as representative data. IE: It may be a TRUE statement, but, not necessarily predictive of what your own experience might be.


----------



## romteb

TEEJ said:


> So, hand made defective French crap lights.



I'm pretty sure Lupines are made in Germany.

Petzl on the other hand is a french company, confusing isn't it ?


----------



## davpet

romteb said:


> I'm pretty sure Lupines are made in Germany.
> 
> Petzl on the other hand is a french company, confusing isn't it ?



Yep, they are made in Germany.. or at least that's what is written on them. I don't see the "made in china" on my Zebra..


----------



## TEEJ

LOL - the point was that it didn't matter, I could have said Mongolian or Lichtensteinian, Umpalumpalian, etc.


----------



## magnum70383

So has ZL updated the specs on this light yet? They are the slowest company ever......


----------



## Phry

magnum70383 said:


> So has ZL updated the specs on this light yet? They are the slowest company ever......



I love the look, feel and UI of their lights and have and do own many. 

How slow they are to do EVERYTHING is really starting to put me off them however.


----------



## Zenbaas

Phry said:


> I love the look, feel and UI of their lights and have and do own many.
> 
> How slow they are to do EVERYTHING is really starting to put me off them however.



Yeah was very interested in this light but them not updating info makes it seem like they just don't care about their products.


----------



## TEEJ

If there's a pattern that's not working for them, its telling about stuff they are planning to develop.

The threads go like this:

1) They say - Hey, we want to make a new bright light that runs on 18650's, we're working on it!

2) We say - That's Great! How bright and when will it be out and will it have a clip because I need a clip, and will it tail stand and have multiple brightness levels and sub-lumen levels and no blinkies, or maybe hidden, or, readily accessible blinkies, and what's the run time and how long before step down and why don't you use Nimh's instead of Li-ions?

3) They say - Thanks for your input! We're working on it!

3) We say, this is BEull SheeT! Where's the damn light? Why don't you have a release date!

4) They say - Yes, we have no bananas. 


Etc.

If they do guess at a date because they are bombarded with questions...like MOST guesses, they are not known for being right.


So - Makers do this because they want to generate buzz, and get people excited so as to encourage a big opening order to kick start things, etc....BUT, some people hear about a light they want that doesn't exist yet...and want it NOW.


So the strategy doesn't work for ZL, here, due to the nature of the hobby....of COURSE we want it now.


----------



## scout24

Hey, the Umpalumpians make some really nice stuff... quit givin' 'em grief, Teej!


----------



## PocketBeam

scout24 said:


> Hey, the Umpalumpians make some really nice stuff... quit givin' 'em grief, Teej!



I know that sometimes Teej can come across as being negative... but at least in the last few pages he hasn't, except for the one above. And he wasn't the one that started the please update the specs comment.


Any way, I think it is taking longer to get specs because of the last minute upgrade to the U3. I am guessing they have to send it out to get the lumen numbers.

btw, 0.1% would be one in a thousand.


----------



## TEEJ

LOL

I HAVE a S6330, and, I SWEAR I have nothing against Umpalumpians. 

If what I said made it look like I was negative about the light, or Umps, etc....its my way of making a point, which, I suppose, could be less obscure. Its my nature.



If you re-read what I said, its possible to see its not actually negative...unless that would include pointing out that no one can announce a product in development on CPF/CPFM and NOT be deluged by demands for its delivery, etc.

That's a neutral observation.


----------



## PocketBeam

I don't want to derail the thread, but I thought post 1067 was negative and I was about to plus one scout, but then I looked at the last few pages of your posts... overall not entirly negative. Just remember, people often can't tell when you are joking or just being sarcastic, etc. I know I still make mistakes, so I appreciate feedback.

So back on track. I came here hoping to find reviews or beam shots, etc. So far not much, and no beam shots? And based on the chart I saw it looks like the 3xU3 is hitting 2400 lumens? Is that right?


----------



## scout24

With apologies to Jerry and Elaine, it's ok as long as you're not an anti-Umpalumpite...  

Back on topic, in the end it's just flashlights, boys and girls... I'm as excited as anyone, hate waiting as much as anyone, and hope these are the biggest problems and anxieties that we collectively ever have... :grouphug: lovecpf


----------



## holylight

Hi guys got a question. What's the different between Zebralight in cool white and warm. 

Looking at YouTube comparison sometimes cool white look brighter however sometimes warm looks brighter.

I was referring to this video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Wf2KFI4TE


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Cool is always brighter, warm is about 20-30% less bright, but renders colors better. Give-take.


----------



## markr6

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Cool is always brighter, warm is about 20-30% less bright, but renders colors better. Give-take.



I've heard 7% less, but maybe it depends on the type of LED? (XM-L vs XP-G). When comparing Zebralight's cool and neutral next to each other, it makes one look blue and one look yellow so it's hard to realize which one you would want. I found the warm is much better tint. Don't "hunt" white walls - my advice is to try walking around with each for about 15 mintues at a time so your mind doesn't play tricks on you.


----------



## PocketBeam

First of all that was a cool white versus neutral white, not warm white. The cool white is usually brighter because at any given moment the bin can be higher. In other words, you can get a U3 cool white, but if you want a warm or neutral then you have to use a T6 bin. Over time they catch up, but they are always a bin or two behind.

In the video they compare the SC600 to the SC600w. Well we know that Zebralight offers the "w" model a few months later than the primary model. We also know that Zebralight is always upgrading their lights. Which means maybe during the delay they put a better bin in. So really you are not comparing the latest cool white against the latest neutral white.

Also in that video, they are obviously using a video camera. This means that they probably have auto gain and auto white balance and some other auto settings. So the camera is changing what you see, even from scene to scene. Also they never show long shots, so we don't see how far they reach.

As far as cool white versus warm white, a lot of people are used to incandescent light bulbs, which tend to be warm. Warm is another word for more yellowish or redish. Cool is a blue tint. Remember these are slight shifts, as we still call ordinary light bulbs white.

I like a slightly warm light. But I order the brightest cool white. If I wait for another tint, then by then there is something even brighter in the cool white.

There is another factor, that is color rendering. I.e. how well a light can light up each color. For example will an apple look nice and red or grayish, same for grapes, or oranges, etc. That video did a terrible job showing how they light up colors differently. But that is ok since most people use it in a wooded or urban enviroment. Most people don't need to see exactly which shade of red a car is, just that it is a red car.

I am a painter. I would never use one of my flashlights to paint, even a neutral white one. The color rendering is just not perfect enough. But for seeing things I think cool white is more than fine. I think this article explains things well and explains why the CRI number can lie to you. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/10/08/2011/51652/colour-rendering-from-led-lighting.htm


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

markr6 said:


> I've heard 7% less, but maybe it depends on the type of LED? (XM-L vs XP-G). When comparing Zebralight's cool and neutral next to each other, it makes one look blue and one look yellow so it's hard to realize which one you would want. I found the warm is much better tint. Don't "hunt" white walls - my advice is to try walking around with each for about 15 mintues at a time so your mind doesn't play tricks on you.



You may be right, I was thinking about lumen loss from reflector.


----------



## PocketBeam

I tried to find a good Cree chart showing the lumen difference. I couldn't find one with the U3, but I found one copyright 2013. This is for XM-L, and these are from the highest bin from the chart, presumably the highest availible at the time. I pulled the 2000ma numbers as I think they are more relevant.

Cool white U2 742 luminous flux
Neutral white T5 643 luminous flux
Warm white T3 544 luminous flux.

Of course we have U3 now, but these numbers are good for comparison. They are a snapshot in time.

So I get 13% less and 27% less respectivly. Or, if we compare from warm white then neutral is 18% brighter, and cool is 36% brighter.

Link to reference pdf - http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/document-library#XLamp XM-L


----------



## TEEJ

I think its ~ a 2-3 bin difference in lumens, so an XM-L2 T6 might be as bright as an XM-L U3, etc.


----------



## TEEJ

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Cool is always brighter, warm is about 20-30% less bright, but renders colors better. Give-take.



Cool is always brighter, and warm is always dimmer, but warm doesn't always render color better. Most high CRI lights are warmer, but being warmer doesn't give you higher CRI in of itself.

It takes more power to make the warmer tints, and less for cooler ones, so for any given set-up, the cooler light will make more lumens.

In practice, you tend to see more with the cooler versions of lights than warmer versions.

I find I like the warmer lights for some applications, and the cooler ones for others...so I'll get both versions typically.


----------



## henry1960

Well Took The Plung And Ordered Me A S6330..15% Off..Now My Zebralight Collection Is Complete..For Now:tinfoil:


----------



## holylight

I am considering between tk75 and s6330. In terms of brute power tk75 wins. However s6330 is compact in size. I finally decided to wait for warm s6330.


----------



## holylight

Zebralight reply to me next month will come out with the warm s6330. Good thing they will release it.


----------



## kolbasz

holylight said:


> Zebralight reply to me next month will come out with the warm s6330. Good thing they will release it.




2 months ago they were on a different opinion. I suppose costumer's pressure made them changed their mind.
Hope they will come out with xm-l2, and both warm white and neutral tint.


----------



## Phry

holylight said:


> Zebralight reply to me next month will come out with the warm s6330. Good thing they will release it.



They STILL don't have any CW versions in stock on their own website! Has been like this for months. SC600 MKII is the same.

Come on ZL, you have to make the darn things!


----------



## holylight

Lol. We love the lights....


----------



## Phry

Got me one at last. 

This thing is crazy small. Nitecore now have a cheek to call their lineup tiny! 

Very impressive, usable light.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

I've had this light for a few months now and am completely satisfied with it.
It's been totally reliable and I LOVE the ability to program the levels just like my SC52! 
The small size and huge output causes everyone who sees it to be impressed. The most common response is WTF!!! Lol!
I can toss it in my backpack and lug it with me anywhere I need a LOT of output.
Flashlight technology has come so far since I first joined CPF!!

Hopefully Zebralight will step up production to help avoid future shortages and frustrated customers.


----------



## Gemlab

I got a Raine small Molly pouch #06mscy
It fits this light very nicely .$16.95 made in USA.
www.raineinc.com


----------



## Phry

DaFABRICATA said:


> I've had this light for a few months now and am completely satisfied with it.
> It's been totally reliable and I LOVE the ability to program the levels just like my SC52!
> The small size and huge output causes everyone who sees it to be impressed. The most common response is WTF!!! Lol!
> I can toss it in my backpack and lug it with me anywhere I need a LOT of output.
> Flashlight technology has come so far since I first joined CPF!!
> 
> Hopefully Zebralight will step up production to help avoid future shortages and frustrated customers.



+1


----------



## justanotherguy

can anyone provide me some comparison to a sky ray king....I picked one up since the price seemed like a no brainer...
?


----------



## justanotherguy

justanotherguy said:


> can anyone provide me some comparison to a sky ray king....I picked one up since the price seemed like a no brainer...
> ?



And I was curious to see how the big ZL compared...if its a fair amount brighter or floodier I would pick one up....If they are neck and neck I will stick with the $40 special...
Tony


----------



## TEEJ

justanotherguy said:


> And I was curious to see how the big ZL compared...if its a fair amount brighter or floodier I would pick one up....If they are neck and neck I will stick with the $40 special...
> Tony



Its not apples and apples.

The Sky Ray's are all over the map as far as out put and quality control, etc...and are not regulated like the ZL....so they get dimmer as the cells drain, etc. Also, if you drop your SR King, it might break into little pieces/not work anymore, but the ZL will probably still work, etc.

IE: Tool vs toy.


I have both. One is OK to play with/use to drain cells, etc...the other is for work.

The SR King is a lot larger too, and less convenient to carry.


If you don't need it to work all the time, or to be bright for too long, or be as easy to carry, etc, its just to mess around with for example, sure the king can be fun. If its for any PURPOSE, and you might need to count on it for anything, get the ZL.

Or do the flashaholic response, and get both.


----------



## newbie66

Zebralight is taking too long to ship out new stocks to the distributor in my country. I emailed them asking when it will arrive but they said they don't know either. They may also stop selling Zebralight products because their capital is tied down and it takes too long to get new stocks. I feel sad that this had to happen. 

Come on Zebralight! Ship the lights already!!


----------



## oeL

newbie66 said:


> Zebralight is taking too long to ship out new stocks to the distributor in my country.



I don't see a benefit of buying Zebralights (and others) at resellers. Compared to the resellers in Germany, the price at the manufacturers online shop usually is not higher (incl. shipping, customs duties and taxes). And you will most likely get the brand new up to date sub-model with all current features.

For Zebralight, I used the DHL shipping option, and they made a "custumer-friendly" customs declaration.


----------



## newbie66

For me if I were to purchase online from manufacturer and used DHL or some other express shipping method, it is gonna cost a bomb for me. As listed on Zebralight's site the charges for using DHL is probably between $30 to $80.
Anyway, it is not even possible to order from Zebralight's own site since almost all their products are out of stock. Don't know what is going on there.


----------



## carl

1) Just wondering, does anyone think the S6330 is too heavy? The light is 10 oz and 3 batteries are almost 6 oz to make 1 pound. An average can of soda weighs 13 - 14 ounces. A guy is selling his light on ebay with the comment that its too heavy so just asking what you all think...

2) I see a few holsters mentioned here. Which holster is the best?


----------



## TobyZiegler

carl said:


> 1) Just wondering, does anyone think the S6330 is too heavy? The light is 10 oz and 3 batteries are almost 6 oz to make 1 pound. An average can of soda weighs 13 - 14 ounces. A guy is selling his light on ebay with the comment that its too heavy so just asking what you all think...



Noo way S6330 is too heavy. Think about around 2000 lumens in such a small and sturdy package!
It's quite insane how small and light this light is.

If you only need 200-500 lumens, well there are smaller and lighter lights of course. Maybe he just went the wrong way and should have bought a SC600!?


----------



## carl

Bright Guy states S6330 WITH batteries weighs 11 ounces. If the light itself weighs 10 ounces, that number seem too low. Can someone weigh their light with batteries? Thanks.


----------



## juplin

S6330 is too heavy for EDC. It's the role for SC600 or Olight S20 which I carry for these days.
Best choice for S6330 shall be the bike light.


----------



## JetskiMark

carl said:


> Bright Guy states S6330 WITH batteries weighs 11 ounces. If the light itself weighs 10 ounces, that number seem too low. Can someone weigh their light with batteries? Thanks.





JetskiMark said:


> <snip> Thanks for the weights. The TM26 is a dense little light. This inspired me to exert the effort to stand up and take several steps in order to grab my old Sunbeam SP5 digital scale. The lights were already on my desk.
> 
> Nitecore TM11 with Eagletac protected 3100mAh cells weighs 18.6 ounces/530 grams.
> * Zebralight S6330 with FastTech Panasonic protected 3400mAh cells weighs 14 ounces/397 grams.*
> Zebralight SC600w MKIb with a FastTech Panasonic protected 3400mAh cell weighs 4.6 ounces/130 grams.
> Zebralight SC52 with an Eagletac protected 14500 weighs 2.1 ounces/61 grams.
> 
> My SC52 has become my favorite dog walking light despite the coolish tint. I never notice the weight even after several miles.
> 
> I am looking forward to taking a long walk with the TM26. I will definitely be aware of the weight the entire time though.


----------



## carl

Thanks Mark!


----------



## sticktodrum

My S6330 arrived today! It's my first multi-LED light and it's quite the specimen. I'm going to take it with me to class tonight and walk home, lighting up my neighborhood! 

This thing is tiny, really tiny, for what it puts out. Rather sturdy too, not that heavy. I'll throw it on the scale when I get a chance.


----------



## tonkem

sticktodrum said:


> My S6330 arrived today! It's my first multi-LED light and it's quite the specimen. I'm going to take it with me to class tonight and walk home, lighting up my neighborhood!
> 
> This thing is tiny, really tiny, for what it puts out. Rather sturdy too, not that heavy. I'll throw it on the scale when I get a chance.



Congrats on the light. It is an excellent light with no competition in its size, IMHO.


----------



## bbb74

DaFABRICATA said:


> I used mine to go to the grocery store this morning when the rain was clear. Dispite the wet roads, the S6330 did a great job! and didn't seem less bright like most lights do in wet conditions.
> :twothumbsGoing over bumps resulted in hearing some battery rattle, but no changing of levels or cutting out. I think an isolation sleeve in the battery tube will be needed should it be mounted directly to the bike to avoid rattle.
> It was about 55 degrees here in michigan when I was riding and the light never even felt warm running on high.
> 
> A few velcro adjustable ties held the light in place and made it easy to remove. The placement also allowed perfect placement for my thumb to change levels.
> And yes, I do want another for the other side!:naughty:
> 
> I recieved this light early wednesday morning and have not been able to stop playing with it. Very happy with it so far. The Zebralight UI is one of my personal favorites and this is my first one that allows the "6 click program" to other levels. It's very easy to use.
> 
> Anyway, this thing makes a lot of the car headlamps around here look dim! oo:  :duck:
> 
> As a side note: Hearing how many people like their SC52's, I placed an order for one a few days ago and have it and an H31fr (flood-red) coming later this week!



Have you just got the SC51 clipped onto a reflector attachment with the reflector removed? It doesn't come off? I've had a h51r come off attached to the strap on the end of my saddle bag and I thought that was impossible...


----------



## Warsaw

Warsaw said:


> (03-13-2013, 11:25 AM)
> Yesterday one of XML's died without any reason
> 6 weeks of waiting, 5 days of using, and now i will wait probably 2+ months until it will go back to China and arrive again :x
> 
> My second ZL, and second one that required replacement....
> 
> ZebraLight is capable of making awesome products - electronic (low mode, runtimes) and look is imho great. Is it my bad luck or the quality could be better?
> 
> I will miss s6330, this is really cool item.



Zebra, I'm still waiting for your love...


----------



## newbie66

Warsaw said:


> Zebra, I'm still waiting for your love...



Still haven't got your light back?


----------



## DaFABRICATA

bbb74 said:


> Have you just got the SC51 clipped onto a reflector attachment with the reflector removed? It doesn't come off? I've had a h51r come off attached to the strap on the end of my saddle bag and I thought that was impossible...




Thats acually an SC31w. You are correct that the mount is just a reflector mount with the flashlight clipped to it. I've rode like this for quite some time now and have yet to have the SC31w fall off. I do try to keep an eye on it just incase....so far, so good. As for the S6330...mine is still working great. I don't ride with it on the bike,


----------



## LEDburn

They seemed to release a few s6330 and sc600 mkII flashlights then remain as back ordered. 
I notice they are shipping the sc52w with an XM-L2 - perhaps they are switching to XM-L2 CW for these models and are just waiting for a suitable quantity of emitters..

If that's the case, I'm glad I waited, but at the same time, I hope not for those who pre-ordered theirs or got it soon after release!


----------



## Warsaw

newbie66 said:


> Still haven't got your light back?



I've received it in Thursday. It took ages, but Zebra sended me brand new item. 
I noticed that the battery carrier is now made ​​of a different material (a different color, more resistant). 

Over the weekend I tested a flashlight with a thermometer. In the maximum mode, flashlight head surface temperature remains below 54 degrees (C). However, if you disable it while hot and turn the back on, torch starts with maximum power and lowers the brightness for some time. At some point, the temperature can reach 63 degrees, (propobly more if you do it several times) but in time it goes back to the level of 54 degrees or less. Tests carried out at room temperature. 

In maximum mode, with cooling, flashlight goes off after 1h25m. Without cooling, after about 2h14m. (Panasonic 3.4 mAh, protected).


----------



## newbie66

Warsaw said:


> I've received it in Thursday. It took ages, but Zebra sended me brand new item.
> I noticed that the battery carrier is now made ​​of a different material (a different color, more resistant).
> 
> Over the weekend I tested a flashlight with a thermometer. In the maximum mode, flashlight head surface temperature remains below 54 degrees (C). However, if you disable it while hot and turn the back on, torch starts with maximum power and lowers the brightness for some time. At some point, the temperature can reach 63 degrees, (propobly more if you do it several times) but in time it goes back to the level of 54 degrees or less. Tests carried out at room temperature.
> 
> In maximum mode, with cooling, flashlight goes off after 1h25m. Without cooling, after about 2h14m. (Panasonic 3.4 mAh, protected).




Nice to hear you got a new one, you deserve it. What is the color of the battery carrier? I see some are either gold or silver.

Really nice testing too. Hopefully the light can last long.


----------



## Warsaw

Previous carrier was gold. After only several 18650's replacements, there were visible signs of usage. 
This one is silver. Surface seems to be much more durable.


----------



## newbie66

Warsaw said:


> Previous carrier was gold. After only several 18650's replacements, there were visible signs of usage.
> This one is silver. Surface seems to be much more durable.



I see. The silver one better be durable. If there are any more problems, I hope we will hear about it. I think others would want to know its durability as well. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## magnum70383

I'm looking at Zebralight's site. They never updated the specs on this light....


----------



## Zenbaas

magnum70383 said:


> I'm looking at Zebralight's site. They never updated the specs on this light....



So were their claims accurate I wonder.


----------



## magnum70383

lol. I remember reading that Selfbuilt was thinking of reviewing this light. Guess he didn't have time to do so


----------



## D2000

TEEJ said:


> So, hand made defective French crap lights.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Seriously, ANY light, or any product for that matter, CAN be defective/not perfect.
> 
> If you have a 0.001% problem rate, that's 1 out of a thousand....so if you sell 10,000 lights, that might mean 10 of them have complaints.
> 
> If you sell 1,000,000 lights, that's 1,000 complaints with the same quality control level....enough to show up on forums, etc.
> 
> 
> There is a tendency on ALL forums for any negative comments to carry a disproportionate weight, as people are typically thinking very hard about if they should get something...and if every comment is positive, they ride that wave...but, one negative that hits a hot button for them, and the light/product, is no longer in contention for a purchase.
> 
> 
> The Klarus XT11 had a batch of plastic cigar grip rings that apparently were fragile, and there were approximately 8 posts where people said their ring broke.
> 
> From that, the light was labeled as having a weak ring....even though no one else had that issue. They did switch back to aluminum rings, but, the unbroken plastic rings stayed unbroken....etc.
> 
> So, out of perhaps 100's of thousands of lights, ~ 8 negative experiences essentially undid the 1,000's of positive experiences others had with the same product.
> 
> 
> Its a forum-thing...and, completely normal. Anecdotal evidence is what a forum typically provides, and, there is no correction for statistical weight...its randomly posted, etc....and the reader needs to interpret the weighting as appropriate, which most don't.
> 
> So, those who like/love a product tend to discount posts in contradiction to their own experiences ("I smoked for 50 years, and it never hurt ME"), and those that either dislike a product or prefer a competitive product, tend to accept anything negative and filter out anything positive, and so forth...as that procedure tends to help support/maintain their opinion.
> 
> So if you are a fan of DX-type stuff, you tend to look for posts that say "My DX light works great but my SureFire broke", and get all warm and fuzzy as it made you feel good about your DX lights....but, the same post makes a guy who paid $400 for the SF go apoplectic and provide examples of the opposite experience, etc.
> 
> As a forum is NOT representative except by accident, you can get a thread where 100 people say their crap-fire 1x 18650 10,000 mah cells are amazingly great and one guy says they're bogus...and if you're a newb, you'd see 100 FOR the crap-fire 10,000 mah 18650, and only one against...and, weigh them....to decide if YOU should get a crap-fire, and so forth.
> 
> 
> So, "I had one that broke, but my XYZ never did" type threads are, well, needed to be taken as anecdotal rather than as representative data. IE: It may be a TRUE statement, but, not necessarily predictive of what your own experience might be.


This was a great comment that deserves some praise. Well considered and written.


----------



## Likebright

Okay, 
I have just hop, skipped and jumped through this whole thread and my overall consensus is that this light is worth a try. 
I just placed my order with Light Junction. I have several Zebra lights, SC600II, a couple of H31 and I really like them. I miss not having a momentary on but that is the only gripe i have with the interface. You can customize your output pretty well and the semi-flood throw is just about perfect for most of my uses. Now I am looking forward to the S6330. Bet I'll like it!
Mike


----------



## don.gwapo

Size and output, I'm pretty sure you'll going to like it just like us. And it's just a hair longer than the SC600II. :devil:.


----------



## davpet

Guys, I ordered the SC600 II, and compared its output to the S6330 driven with only one battery. Interestingly, the S6330 is a bit brighter, with only one led running, so it seems to be driven harder/emitter. Actually I expected the opposite. Also, the anodizing is more blueish on the 600, not the olive greenish color like on the S6330. Also, unfortunately the anodizing was already scratched off at 3 places on the front edge of the light, when I took it out of the box. Which is interesting, 'cause I use my S6330 daily, throw it in my bag or pocket, and the anodizing is still in perfect condition.


----------



## davpet

Also, S6330's 400 Lm level is brighter than the SC600 II's 500 Lm. (1032 vs. 950 lux)


----------



## Capolini

D2000 said:


> This was a great comment that deserves some praise. Well considered and written.




*WARNING: I AM VERY DIRECT!
*
I first want to say that my experience was from a different manufacturer.

It was written well. Teej is very knowledgeable! The thought process and the statistics may very well be valid.

However[!], In my mind, this was written mostly by statistics and the point of view favoring the manufacturer.

I do understand that several defective lights out of thousands and thousands may not deter a person from getting that light."IF" the manufacturer is WILLING TO CORRECT The DEFECT!

For the consumer who has gone through frustration/defective product more than once with the same light and manufacturer, the dissertation by "Teej" becomes meaningless! 

The affected consumer is NOT concerned if 10 out 100,000 or 100 out of 1,000,000 people have a defective product from a specific manufacturer!!!

His[speaking for myself] frustration stems from the fact that the defect has continually happened and the manufacturers reply is "This is Normal"! It is their way of justifying that they are NOT going to try to correct the problem!! That problem is condensation like phenomenon under the lens.

I guess we can all agree to disagree!! I already have a pretty good idea of what the response to this will be! I will wait and see if I am right!

Just another point of view from my personal experience regarding this topic

*Ciao,,,Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"*


----------



## Etsu

TEEJ said:


> If you have a 0.001% problem rate, that's 1 out of a thousand....so if you sell 10,000 lights, that might mean 10 of them have complaints.
> 
> If you sell 1,000,000 lights, that's 1,000 complaints with the same quality control level....enough to show up on forums, etc.



Just to nit-pik, 0.001% is 1 out of 100,000. Not 1 out of a thousand. Selling 10,000 lights means you have... well, probably no complaints. Sell 1,000,000, you only have about 10 complaints.

But, I get your point, otherwise.


----------



## stevenkelby

Failure rate isn't the issue anyway.

You actually get more customer loyalty if you're product/service has a problem and you handle it well, than if you're product/service does not have a problem. 

Companies are judged on how they treat the people with an issue, not how many people have an issues or what the issues are.

I like ZL and will buy more from them but they could have handled things better in the past.


----------



## Capolini

stevenkelby said:


> Failure rate isn't the issue anyway.
> 
> You actually get more customer loyalty if you're product/service has a problem and you handle it well, than if you're product/service does not have a problem.
> 
> Companies are judged on how they treat the people with an issue, not how many people have an issues or what the issues are.
> 
> I like ZL and will buy more from them but they could have handled things better in the past.



Totally disagree!!

Lets say a company has 200 customers and 50[ remember you wrote its not HOW MANY PEOPLE!!] of them are dissatisfied because of reoccurring problems.Your telling me that it is MORE important to develop a good relationship with the customers than the AMOUNT of people who have an issue with them?! They will be "Out of Business" by word of mouth!

Also, I would be much more loyal and willing to continue to buy from a company with a dependable product than to go back to an UNDEPENDABLE company who works with me and is nice to me because their product keeps failing!! That is common sense, a no brainer!

Failure IS an issue when it keeps happening and they[China] do not do anything about it! I do not think I am any different. Who would like to spend time and money sending the same product back and getting another with the same defect??!! That type of failure is an issue!

Locally they are treating me well! However, in order to make a change or correction on the product, that comes from China and they have no intentions of correcting the problem.

I love your pooches,,looks like they are Siberians like mine!

*Ciao,,, Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"

P.S. I am feeble when it comes to "copy and paste"*!!!! Check out my thread "TK-75, Condensation issues, again"

*A failure is not a failure unless you fail to recognize that something NEEDS to be changed!*

One of a Thousand simple minded quotes that I have written!


----------



## Capolini

Etsu said:


> Just to nit-pik, 0.001% is 1 out of 100,000. Not 1 out of a thousand. Selling 10,000 lights means you have... well, probably no complaints. Sell 1,000,000, you only have about 10 complaints.
> 
> But, I get your point, otherwise.



I would say that IS nit picking!!! Why would you focus on that??!! I WAS NOT referring to his stats. I just threw numbers out off the top of my head!!

Glad you got the point.

*Ciao,,, Roberto,,, "Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"

Now I am going to call "Teej" up and straighten him out!!!! lol,, lol!!*


----------



## Etsu

IMO, a low failure rate is more important than service, especially when mail-ordering. I don't want the hassle of getting a problem fixed in another country, so I'd rather pay more up-front for a product with a very good quality-control record, than deal with returns and repairs later. Besides, I usually throw away my receipts long before the warranty expires.

When I was deciding between 4sevens and EagleTac, I went with 4sevens not because of their service, but because they had a lot less complaints on this board. Service is good if I ever need it, but I'd rather not need it.


----------



## Capolini

Etsu said:


> IMO, a low failure rate is more important than service, especially when mail-ordering. I don't want the hassle of getting a problem fixed in another country, so I'd rather pay more up-front for a product with a very good quality-control record, than deal with returns and repairs later. Besides, I usually throw away my receipts long before the warranty expires.
> 
> When I was deciding between 4sevens and EagleTac, I went with 4sevens not because of their service, but because they had a lot less complaints on this board. Service is good if I ever need it, but I'd rather not need it.


----------



## Capolini

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED??!!! Post #1128! How did "Etsu" quote get there with my Husky and no other written info. in the body??!! I could not delete it!!

Is this website SLOW tonight or is it my computer?? I think it is mostly this website because I can open any other window as normal.

*Ciao,,, Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"*


----------



## stevenkelby

stevenkelby said:


> You actually get more customer loyalty if you're product/service has a problem and you *handle it well*, than if you're product/service does not have a problem.
> 
> Companies are judged on how they treat the people with an issue, not how many people have an issues or what the issues are.



This is a fact, not an opinion 

If you disagree, your definition of *"handle it well" *is wrong.

Zebralights issues have been bad for Zebralight and it's customers because they did not handle it well.



> I love your pooches,,looks like they are Siberians like mine!



Thanks! Big one is Alaskan Malamute, small one is Swedish Vallhund, but all are in the Spitz family


----------



## TEEJ

Sometimes people are talking about parallel concepts w/o realizing that they are parallel, but not the same concept.

IE: Some above are talking about whether its "ok" to HAVE a failure rate from the perspective of the guy WITH the failure, and others are talking about it from the perspective of the manufacturer, and realistic expectations.


Obviously, its like any other statistic. If you have a common scenario, such as driving to and from work every day...knowing that a percentage of people doing that DIE every day, you do it anyway....and so do most of your family and co-workers.

Is it a good idea to drive to work and back?

Should you?

Well, if you are in the wee band of the bell curve who didn't make it that day...nope, you should have stayed home that day.

If you are in the fat part of the curve that made it, sure, it was fine.


Now break that down to the CAR. What if wee cars like a smart car simply gets bunted when whacked by not so wee cars, like a Humvee...and, if you had a choice between which to be in in a high speed bumper jousting match, you might pick the Hummer.


Of course, very few people pick the Hummer, as other than the whacking thing, they are mostly impractical.

So, we all risk DEATH on a daily basis to accomplish rather mundane things.

That's statistics.


If we want to look at it from the manufacturer's point of view, a "death RATE" is a practical way to look at it. If from the about to be or already dead guy's perspective, we want a ZERO rate, which, of course, is not a feasible objective, despite its obvious attractions.



So, every one who says its not OK to have a failure and every one who says its OK to have a failure, are just looking at it from different perspectives.

Those who say that while the lowest failure rate is preferable, and it is reasonable to not expect zero as the rate, also expect the manufacturer to at least not take a dump on their head when a failure DOES occur.

Where the overlap is, is what the manufacturer DOES about it.


Some are simply unable to respond in a consistent way that leaves all the failure customers feeling that it was "taken care of to their satisfaction".

Some are able to make MOST customers feel that way, some are able to make SOME feel that way, and others hide under the desk when the phone rings so no one yells at them.


----------



## Etsu

I also think the service expectations depends on how long you've had the light. If this is a brand-new light, I'd be pissed if I had to wait 1-2 months for mailing time plus repairs, not to mention the extra cost of mailing. My tolerance for failures in new items is very low. This is something that the manufacturer should catch before shipment. I understand they can't be perfect, but something like a light that doesn't turn on is unacceptable quality control for a mid-to-high-priced light.

However, if this is a warranty issue on a light that's a couple years old, waiting 1-2 months for a fix isn't a big issue.


----------



## TEEJ

Generally, the Chinese companies are very slow....but, my buddies and I have had SureFires that took several months to be repaired, and, that didn't work when they were finally received. So no one is perfect in product OR customer service.

On this forum, we will NOT see a representative balance of CS related posts, as in most cases, people are angry and want to vent if UNHAPPY, but, if everything goes fine, they say nothing, as, well, that's what they EXPECTED.

So if we see a few posts complaining about ANYTHING FROM ANY MAKER, they could in fact be MOST of the complaints made about that maker...and not representative of what any individual may expect.

Its just life as we know it.

That doesn't make it RIGHT that it takes a long time to get back a Surefire, and then finds its still broken, or a ZL, etc...but, these things will happen, and, you need to maintain a context about it to not make yourself go nutz.

Its everyone's individual right to never order another XYZ because the experience with first one disappointed them....and that's the chance the maker's take.


----------



## sticktodrum

A whole lot of yelling going on here... 

Now if only they would make a 6330w.


----------



## stevenkelby

Capolini said:


> Totally disagree!!
> 
> Lets say a company has 200 customers and 50[ remember you wrote its not HOW MANY PEOPLE!!] of them are dissatisfied because of reoccurring problems.Your telling me that it is MORE important to develop a good relationship with the customers than the AMOUNT of people who have an issue with them?! They will be "Out of Business" by word of mouth!



I didn't really answer this sorry 

The answer to your question is yes 

It's actually better to release a product that has a 100% failure rate and is an absolute disaster, *then handle that situation correctly*, than it is to release a perfect product in the first place. Counter intuitive maybe, but true and proven time and again.

If a company releases a product (or provides a service) and the customer is dissatisfied, that company then has an opportunity that they would not otherwise get. The company has the opportunity to demonstrate incredible customer service, fixing the problem quickly and fully. The company can go over the top, giving the customer an amazing experience and proving to the customer that if they have a problem, the company will go well above and beyond what's expected, to ensure that the customer is 100% satisfied. It gives the customer more confidence in the company than they had before there was a problem.

That builds loyalty that can't be built in any other way.

The most loyal customers of a brand are those that had a problem and were blown away with how well it was taken care of.


----------



## Etsu

stevenkelby said:


> It's actually better to release a product that has a 100% failure rate and is an absolute disaster, *then handle that situation correctly*, than it is to release a perfect product in the first place. Counter intuitive maybe, but true and proven time and again.



I don't believe it. Unless that company has a good reputation before releasing 100% junk, its reputation will suffer enormously. Many of those customers won't bother dealing with warranty; they'll just return the junk to the retailer and never buy from that company again. For those that do go through warranty, it's a hassle and they won't want to risk the bother again.

The company would have to do some amazing things to retain customers, and that would be far more costly than releasing a good product in the first place. I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just not a good or profitable way to do business.


----------



## photonmaster

Does anyone know if the bare emitter version of this light is still going to be released?

If so, when?


----------



## stevenkelby

Etsu said:


> I don't believe it.



It's true anyway 



Etsu said:


> Many of those customers won't bother dealing with warranty; they'll just return the junk to the retailer and never buy from that company again.



What if the customer doesn't have to deal with it? What if the company has your contact details and address and sends you a package that blows you away with how awesome it is? Or you can go to any retailer and get the new item, no questions asked?

Would everyone who had a problem with the SC51 have been happier if they were sent an SC52 for free? That may have been a better investment for ZL than what they actually did (nothing, or worse, sent another faulty light. Now you have 2 (or more) bad experiences with ZL). ZL handled it badly.



Etsu said:


> The company would have to do some amazing things to retain customers, and that would be far more costly than releasing a good product in the first place.



True, but the company would come out of it with customers/brand ambassadors for life, a priceless investment.

I'm not making this stuff up but don't have any sources sorry, there's no point in me taking time to find sources now and I learned about it years ago. 

If you're interested, try googling:

Customers come back because they get amazing customer service, not because of product or price.

Dissatisfied customers whose complaints are taken care of are more likely to remain loyal, and even become advocates, as those that are ‘just’ customers.

Anyway, ZL had an opportunity and they handled it badly, IMO.

Best regards,

Steve.


----------



## Capolini

I see your still !!! It is time to move on! like "Teej" said, "Different perspectives"!!

Have a nice Holiday weekend everyone!

*Ciao,,,Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS".........Getting ready to do it!*


----------



## davpet

Since we are ordering these lights online, from a galaxy.. country far far away, fast customer service is not even an option. Heck, I even choose dhl all the time, and still feel it's slow, whereas it only takes like 2.5 days for the light to get here. I don't even want to imagine what would happen if something went wrong with the product. Writing a letter, packaging it, going to the post, PAYING money for sending it back.. I don't know if I would bother with it. Probably, by the time they fixed or exchanged the light, there would be a newer model out. Of course, if there was a Zebralight dealership somewhere nearby, I would just visit them and ask for an exchange. So, the products I order online better be perfect. When I bought my nitecore tm11 last year, it was a different story, 'cause the dealership is like 15 minutes walk from my house. So I just went there, tried a bunch of tm11s, and chose one. If there was a warranty issue, I would just go to them after work, and they would change the light. But waiting weeks or months?? no thanks.


----------



## fnj

TEEJ said:


> If you have a 0.001% problem rate, that's 1 out of a thousand



I don't want to belabor this, but as far as I can see, this never got corrected or noticed. 0.001% is 1 out of 100,000, not 1 out of 1000. Big difference.


----------



## TEEJ

fnj said:


> I don't want to belabor this, but as far as I can see, this never got corrected or noticed. 0.001% is 1 out of 100,000, not 1 out of 1000. Big difference.






LOL

Yeah, its been noted a few times.


----------



## Phry

Sooo...

About this bare emitter version...


----------



## davpet

Phry said:


> Sooo...
> 
> About this bare emitter version...



About version 2? Or a nw model?  I just received the SC52w, and the light color looks so much better than the cool white S6330' or the SC600's. Can't wait for the SC600 II w.


----------



## tonkem

Seeing Zebralight releasing so many XML2 lights, wonder if the 6330 will be updated? Put the light over 3000 lumens? And perhaps a 2nd revision of integrating a lanyard, versus adding a lanyard attachment, or removing the lanyard attachment all together....

I decided to email Zebralight with this very question. Will post back what response I get.

Zebralight's response: 
*Staff (Lucy Pan)*
9/5/2013 8:12:46 PMDon't know the production plan for the next batch yet.
Thank you for your support!


----------



## davpet

Yeah, I emailed them a few days ago with a similar question.. Got almost the same answer. 

The only problem with an update would be that 3000 lumens is not a big improvement. Perhaps going to 4000 would be nice, but that would require the addition of a led, and I don't think they should increase the size of the light. Unfortunately leds are only getting better very slowly. It would be nice if someone found a way to eliminate most of the heat the diodes produce. The other thing is that batteries seem to improve even slower. A few mAh/year maybe...


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> Yeah, I emailed them a few days ago with a similar question.. Got almost the same answer.
> 
> The only problem with an update would be that 3000 lumens is not a big improvement. Perhaps going to 4000 would be nice, but that would require the addition of a led, and I don't think they should increase the size of the light. Unfortunately leds are only getting better very slowly. It would be nice if someone found a way to eliminate most of the heat the diodes produce. The other thing is that batteries seem to improve even slower. A few mAh/year maybe...



I hear that, I was going to pick up the Lupine Betty TL2 head, to use with the extra TL battery I have, but ONLY 4500 lumens, versus the 2600 lumens I already have in the Betty TL-s, and the decrease in runtime and the light steps down from 4500 lumens within minutes, depending on temperature, but hey I may just get it anyway


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> I hear that, I was going to pick up the Lupine Betty TL2 head, to use with the extra TL battery I have, but ONLY 4500 lumens, versus the 2600 lumens I already have in the Betty TL-s, and the decrease in runtime and the light steps down from 4500 lumens within minutes, depending on temperature, but hey I may just get it anyway



I've heard that you need the new battery tank for the Betty TL2 head to function properly. I was also thinking about getting a TL2 S, but unfortunately they increased its size a bit.. ok, still lighter than the S6330.. The other thing is that the lowest mode is 30 lumens. If it had Zebralight's user interface and low lumens, it would be much more appealing. Still, 4500 lumens is NICE! Wonder when the others start playing catchup. Oh, and one last thing, the price: 685 Euro for the TL2 S.. it's like four S6330s or what..


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> I've heard that you need the new battery tank for the Betty TL2 head to function properly. I was also thinking about getting a TL2 S, but unfortunately they increased its size a bit.. ok, still lighter than the S6330.. The other thing is that the lowest mode is 30 lumens. If it had Zebralight's user interface and low lumens, it would be much more appealing. Still, 4500 lumens is NICE! Wonder when the others start playing catchup. Oh, and one last thing, the price: 685 Euro for the TL2 S.. it's like four S6330s or what..



Where did you hear that the old batteries would not work with the TL2? 

Saw this on the Lupine Germany store: The lamphead runs on all Lupine TL batteries


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Where did you hear that the old batteries would not work with the TL2?
> 
> Saw this on the Lupine Germany store: The lamphead runs on all Lupine TL batteries



If I could just remember... I think I read it on a lupine forum that the new light head draws too much current for the older 2.5 Ah battery tank to handle normally. Well, it may not be true, but I would definitely get a new one for that head. But I've just realized an interesting thing: TL2 S light set: 685 Euro; TL2 light head (470 Euro) + 3.3 Ah battery tank (85 Euro): 555 Euro. Even, with the 6.6 Ah battery pack, it's gonna be cheaper separately, than in a set.


----------



## Erik1213

I either have a bad battery or a defective light.

This has happened twice, one of my emitters will shut down while the others have 4 flashes on the battery check. Checking the battery shows that the protection has tripped. The other two cells show 3.90 and 3.95 volts. They are all Zebralight 18650s. I have installed a set of Redilast cells to see if it happens. I have also recorded the emitter that is shutting down early.

Has anyone had an issue with uneven loads or bad Zebralight batteries? I leave this light on moon mode almost all of the time unless I grab it for a dog walk. The cells are recharged before a hike and I haven't noticed any strange operating while hiking/camping with the light.

EDIT: I grabbed the offending cell off of the charger after the protection circuit had reset and a small charge had been accepted into the cell for checking. The voltage was 3.5 volts. I am wondering if the protection circuit is faulty. However, the i4 is showing two bars on the other two cells and one bar on the offending cell.


----------



## One missed call

Response I received from ZL on 9/25/13:



> Ticket status: Completed
> 
> Department: Sales
> 
> Subject: S6330
> 
> Thanks for your comments. We will be busy working on smaller lights for the next few months.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038


----------



## Rod911

tonkem said:


> Seeing Zebralight releasing so many XML2 lights, wonder if the 6330 will be updated? Put the light over 3000 lumens? And perhaps a 2nd revision of integrating a lanyard, versus adding a lanyard attachment, or removing the lanyard attachment all together....
> 
> I decided to email Zebralight with this very question. Will post back what response I get.
> 
> Zebralight's response:
> *Staff (Lucy Pan)*
> 9/5/2013 8:12:46 PMDon't know the production plan for the next batch yet.
> Thank you for your support!



Why isn't this happening sooner than later? I kind of want to order an SC52w at the same time as an XM-L2, NW version of this light.


----------



## davpet

For a while now, this light has been listed on Zebralight's site in the discontinued products section. Wonder why this is, 'cause the S6330 is much better than 3xml lights from other manufacturers.


----------



## tonkem

Considering your sig line, you have many multi emitter lights. Which is your favorite? You going to pick up the TM26?



davpet said:


> For a while now, this light has been listed on Zebralight's site in the discontinued products section. Wonder why this is, 'cause the S6330 is much better than 3xml lights from other manufacturers.


----------



## LEDburn

I emailed them about a week ago and they said they are still planning to have the S6330 and S5310 and possibly even Q50 in their future line-up but limited production capability at present is what is holding them back.

I actully emailed them mainly to see when SC62d will be available and in case anyone is interested, they said about 10 days which was a week ago so we should hopefully see something this week!!


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Considering your sig line, you have many multi emitter lights. Which is your favorite? You going to pick up the TM26?



It's hard to decide between the Betty and the S6330, because the former is more powerful, (in my opinion) has a better beam pattern, and is much lighter, but the latter has much better brightness levels including useful low modes. I was considering to buy the TM26, but I find that Nitecore TMs are a bit large compared to the Zebra and the Lupine. So if I decide to spend that much money, I would just spend a little more and buy the Lupine TL2 S, which is much lighter and more powerful than the TM26.


----------



## Phry

I have emailed Zebralight to see if a bare emitter version of the S6330 is still planned.

Probably not at this rate. Such a shame if this doesn't happen.


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> It's hard to decide between the Betty and the S6330, because the former is more powerful, (in my opinion) has a better beam pattern, and is much lighter, but the latter has much better brightness levels including useful low modes. I was considering to buy the TM26, but I find that Nitecore TMs are a bit large compared to the Zebra and the Lupine. So if I decide to spend that much money, I would just spend a little more and buy the Lupine TL2 S, which is much lighter and more powerful than the TM26.



Davpet, it seems I am the same as you are with the Lupines. The TL2 has more modes and lower low than previous as well as the ability to select your own levels, which I like the best. It would be nice if they would have continued the Wilma in flashlight form, but they said they would only focus on the Betty, Betty TL2 and Piko in flashlight form. 

I am looking forward to seeing what comes out next from Zebralight, I think I will pass on the Nitecore.... I just picked up a Lupine Piko TL Max for my wife and it is quite a powerful little light.


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Davpet, it seems I am the same as you are with the Lupines. The TL2 has more modes and lower low than previous as well as the ability to select your own levels, which I like the best. It would be nice if they would have continued the Wilma in flashlight form, but they said they would only focus on the Betty, Betty TL2 and Piko in flashlight form.
> 
> I am looking forward to seeing what comes out next from Zebralight, I think I will pass on the Nitecore.... I just picked up a Lupine Piko TL Max for my wife and it is quite a powerful little light.



Yes, the TL2 has better modes than the TL, but that 30 lumen lowest mode is still a bit high. Yesterday I got up in the middle of the night, and with 100% dark adapted vision, I found even the L1 of the S6330 a bit high, so I double clicked it to go lower.  The betty's or even the piko tl's low mode would have been an overkill. But I also have to add that it already happened three times that I couldn't switch the S6330 off, 'cause the button was not responding, so I had to remove all the batteries to "reset" it. Or when I washed my SC600 II under the tap, the glass fogged up from the inside.. 

I am still thinking of ordering a TL2 as a Christmas present for myself.  Of course, a redesigned S6330 would have been nice.


----------



## tonkem

davpet said:


> Yes, the TL2 has better modes than the TL, but that 30 lumen lowest mode is still a bit high. Yesterday I got up in the middle of the night, and with 100% dark adapted vision, I found even the L1 of the S6330 a bit high, so I double clicked it to go lower.  The betty's or even the piko tl's low mode would have been an overkill. But I also have to add that it already happened three times that I couldn't switch the S6330 off, 'cause the button was not responding, so I had to remove all the batteries to "reset" it. Or when I washed my SC600 II under the tap, the glass fogged up from the inside..
> 
> I am still thinking of ordering a TL2 as a Christmas present for myself.  Of course, a redesigned S6330 would have been nice.



Yeah, I am having a time deciding whether to pickup the TL2 head for myself to add to my "extra" 5ah battery. As for the getting up at night, I use my Zebralight Sc52 for that on just above the lowest setting is perfect, and very small. I keep the betty TLs or the Wilma TL on the nightstand in a holster in the case that I should need more light  Glad to see another who like the Lupines on this forum, seems there are not many of us


----------



## tonkem

Davpet, did you ever get the TL2?


----------



## kj2

tonkem said:


> Seeing Zebralight releasing so many XML2 lights, wonder if the 6330 will be updated? Put the light over 3000 lumens? And perhaps a 2nd revision of integrating a lanyard, versus adding a lanyard attachment, or removing the lanyard attachment all together....
> I decided to email Zebralight with this very question. Will post back what response I get.
> Zebralight's response:
> *Staff (Lucy Pan)*
> 9/5/2013 8:12:46 PMDon't know the production plan for the next batch yet.
> Thank you for your support!


I asked yesterday, and got answer today. They will come with an XM-L2 version, only no known release date.


----------



## tonkem

That sucks that we cannot get any idea of a release date. Say "in a few months" or "next week". The waiting is not fun 



kj2 said:


> I asked yesterday, and got answer today. They will come with an XM-L2 version, only no known release date.


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Davpet, did you ever get the TL2?



I ordered it about two-three weeks before Christmas.. then on the 20th of December I received an email that it's out of stock, and will only be available in the middle of January. So I decided to cancel my order. Since then I haven't ordered it again. I guess I'll just wait for a brighter light.. like over 5-6000 lumens to really notice the difference.


----------



## tonkem

Agreed, I have decided to hold off as well. I have upgraded one of my Wilma TL's to 1300 lumens with the 26 deg beam and a better color temp, versus the 15 deg beam that I had before. The beam is more like my Betty TL at 26 degrees and really the difference between 1300 and 2600 is not THAT MUCH. The TL2 head, a la carte option, has not materialized, so I am relegated to be content with the Wilma and Betty that I have, as well as my 6330. 

Will be keeping my eye on Lupine, hoping they will bring back the Wilma TL at 2800 lumens, although they have said they will not.... I preferred the smaller size of the Wilma to the Betty head, anyway.



davpet said:


> I ordered it about two-three weeks before Christmas.. then on the 20th of December I received an email that it's out of stock, and will only be available in the middle of January. So I decided to cancel my order. Since then I haven't ordered it again. I guess I'll just wait for a brighter light.. like over 5-6000 lumens to really notice the difference.


----------



## carl

dear zebralight - please make the new S6330 more like the Lupine and less like the other Asian soda-can sized lights. There are already a bunch of huge one-pound short and fat lights out there.

1) Use 2 batteries instead of 3 or 4. This makes it more compact and much lighter. If buyers want more battery life, make a longer extended battery tube which holds 4 batteries (2 pairs of batteries end-to-end) as an accessory (Lupine offers a longer battery as an accessory). 

2) Add another emitter (4 total).

3) Call it the new S444 (4 inches long, 4 emitters, 4000 lumens)

This way, it more directly competes with Lupine in the areas of compactness, weight, and brightness. 

Thank you.


----------



## tonkem

Did you send this to them? I just want a new 6330  

Did you get any new Lupines?



carl said:


> dear zebralight - please make the new S6330 more like the Lupine and less like the other Asian soda-can sized lights. There are already a bunch of huge one-pound short and fat lights out there.
> 
> 1) Use 2 batteries instead of 3 or 4. This makes it more compact and much lighter. If buyers want more battery life, make a longer extended battery tube which holds 4 batteries (2 pairs of batteries end-to-end) as an accessory (Lupine offers a longer battery as an accessory).
> 
> 2) Add another emitter (4 total).
> 
> 3) Call it the new S444 (4 inches long, 4 emitters, 4000 lumens)
> 
> This way, it more directly competes with Lupine in the areas of compactness, weight, and brightness.
> 
> Thank you.


----------



## StarHalo

carl said:


> 2) Add another emitter (4 total).



Not necessary in the age of the MT-G2..


----------



## carl

tonkem said:


> Did you get any new Lupines?


 I wish!


----------



## carl

StarHalo said:


> Not necessary in the age of the MT-G2..



ok, agreed.

It will be a 1xMT-G2 and 2x18650.

So now we'll call it the S432 (4 inches long, 3000 lumens, 2 batteries).

This configuration will give us something we have come to expect from Zebralight - a much much smaller and lighter torch than the competition. And most importantly, something DIFFERENT from the many other 1+ pound, soda can shaped lights that are so big they sit on the shelf not being used 99% of the time.


----------



## davpet

Actually Zebralight should manufacture something similar to the Niwalker Minimax, which will be out soon. I personally think that 2x18650 is not enough for these high output lights - the Minimax will have 4 of them. I could live with it if my Lupine Betty had somewhat thicker body.. and more modes. So, new "big" light from Zebra, (at least) 2xMT-G2 leds, and the battery tube should not be bigger than the S6330's. I was also fantasizing about Lupine releasing a new model with at least 3 MT-G2s under a lens system.. lots of lumens!


----------



## WmArnold1

carl said:


> dear zebralight - please make the new S6330 more like the Lupine and less like the other Asian soda-can sized lights. There are already a bunch of huge one-pound short and fat lights out there.
> 
> 1) Use 2 batteries instead of 3 or 4. This makes it more compact and much lighter. If buyers want more battery life, make a longer extended battery tube which holds 4 batteries (2 pairs of batteries end-to-end) as an accessory (Lupine offers a longer battery as an accessory).
> 
> 2) Add another emitter (4 total).
> 
> 3) Call it the new S444 (4 inches long, 4 emitters, 4000 lumens)
> 
> This way, it more directly competes with Lupine in the areas of compactness, weight, and brightness.
> 
> Thank you.



I hope that ZL designs the S6330 to compete better with the Lupines too - however;

1) Recall that one of the big features of the S6330 was three separate drivers; one for each LED / Battery. Personally, I love the failsafe-ness of that! Extending the battery tube to accommodate twice the batteries in series would allow twice the run-times. Which would become 4-hours in high gear!

2) Adding another emitter would be okay; but ZL's design would probably be 4-emitters + 4-batteries. That would be okay with me tho..

3) ~ no arguments here ~
________________________________

Something nobody has mentioned for a while, and my greatest hope, is that ZL incorporates _*TIR optics*_ to better manage what I consider excessive spill. Because, the Lupines have TIR... ~grins~

Don't get me wrong; I love the 80-degree spill-cone of my SC600, I would just rather collate some of those lumen into the hot-spot. Imho, one only needs 200 Lm or so to avoid stepping into holes; imagine having all but that focused within the hot spot! ANSI-throw would be phenomenal because TIR optics can allocate lumens nearly independently of beam pattern.

Bottom line; my pocket EDC is a flooder - the SC600. It covers me well until I need to focus on objects that are more than, say, 20 meters away. If I'm going to buy another light for more *throw*, I'd rather keep (or even reduce) the spill I enjoy from my SC600 and boost the hot-spot by more than 3 times. Imho, TIR optics can collate 75% or more of OTF lumens into the spot-cone!


----------



## davpet

WmArnold1 said:


> Something nobody has mentioned for a while, and my greatest hope, is that ZL incorporates _*TIR optics*_ to better manage what I consider excessive spill. Because, the Lupines have TIR... ~grins~
> 
> Don't get me wrong; I love the 80-degree spill-cone of my SC600, I would just rather collate some of those lumen into the hot-spot. Imho, one only needs 200 Lm or so to avoid stepping into holes; imagine having all but that focused within the hot spot! ANSI-throw would be phenomenal because TIR optics can allocate lumens nearly independently of beam pattern.
> 
> Bottom line; my pocket EDC is a flooder - the SC600. It covers me well until I need to focus on objects that are more than, say, 20 meters away. If I'm going to buy another light for more *throw*, I'd rather keep (or even reduce) the spill I enjoy from my SC600 and boost the hot-spot by more than 3 times. Imho, TIR optics can collate 75% or more of OTF lumens into the spot-cone!



Well, the Piko TL has 22 degree optics, is about 1.5 times more powerful than the SC600 II (according to my measurements), and still has about the same throw. The Betty has 26 degree optics, has at least a few hundred lumens more output than the S6330, and still has less throw. While there is almost no spill to speak of, the hotspot is much larger than the Zebra's. I've had them both for quite some time now, but still can't decide which beam pattern I like better. Still, the Lupines look more advanced, those optics probably cost more than simple reflectors.


----------



## davpet

tonkem said:


> Agreed, I have decided to hold off as well. I have upgraded one of my Wilma TL's to 1300 lumens with the 26 deg beam and a better color temp, versus the 15 deg beam that I had before. The beam is more like my Betty TL at 26 degrees and really the difference between 1300 and 2600 is not THAT MUCH. The TL2 head, a la carte option, has not materialized, so I am relegated to be content with the Wilma and Betty that I have, as well as my 6330.
> 
> Will be keeping my eye on Lupine, hoping they will bring back the Wilma TL at 2800 lumens, although they have said they will not.... I preferred the smaller size of the Wilma to the Betty head, anyway.



Tonkem, I just checked Lupine's website and they sell a DIY upgrade for the Bettys with XM-L2 leds. It increases output from 2600 to 3000 lumens and it's 95 Euros. Not that expensive, compared to their new lights. Ok, I know it is only 400 lumens plus, but still..


----------



## WmArnold1

davpet said:


> Well, the Piko TL has 22 degree optics, is about 1.5 times more powerful than the SC600 II (according to my measurements), and still has about the same throw. The Betty has 26 degree optics, has at least a few hundred lumens more output than the S6330, and still has less throw. While there is almost no spill to speak of, the hotspot is much larger than the Zebra's. I've had them both for quite some time now, but still can't decide which beam pattern I like better. Still, the Lupines look more advanced, those optics probably cost more than simple reflectors.



Thanks for sharing your findings Davpet! Technically, there's only two throw parameters; spot-cone angle and OTF lumens within that spot-cone. But, deciding which beam pattern we like is the biggest factor affecting what throw we will get.



tonkem said:


> I have upgraded one of my Wilma TL's to 1300 lumens with the 26 deg beam and a better color temp, versus the 15 deg beam that I had before. The beam is more like my Betty TL at 26 degrees and really the difference between 1300 and 2600 is not THAT MUCH. The TL2 head, a la carte option, has not materialized, so I am relegated to be content with the Wilma and Betty that I have, as well as my 6330.



Ditto Tonkem; I find it most interesting that you switched a 15° beam to a 26° beam on one of your TL's. 20° or so seems to be the EDC sweet-spot for my lifestyle. Do you keep two TL's handy? One with 15° and the other with 26°?? That sounds like what I want to accomplish with a SC600 & S6330 - separate flashlights; one for near work and one for far work.

And, as a secondary "far work" flashlight, I wouldn't mind if my S6330 had six or even eight 18650's because I'd only bring it into play when I need more throw than my EDC provides. Meantime, I'd keep it in the glovebox, toolbox, or maybe even strapped onto the far side of my Bat-utility-belt. But the separate EDC will always be nearest & dearest to my heart and I can't imagine anyone EDC'ing any size of the S6330 without carrying something else too; maybe a key-chain light.. ~grins~

Sorry for rambling a little.. I envy you guys with the Lupines. Although TIR's are a lot more expensive to design & tool-up for, in the end, they're just injection molded parts too. ZebraLight could sell millions of them!!!


----------



## Fireclaw18

WmArnold1 said:


> I hope that ZL designs the S6330 to compete better with the Lupines too - however;
> 
> 1) Recall that one of the big features of the S6330 was three separate drivers; one for each LED / Battery. Personally, I love the failsafe-ness of that! Extending the battery tube to accommodate twice the batteries in series would allow twice the run-times. Which would become 4-hours in high gear!
> 
> 2) Adding another emitter would be okay; but ZL's design would probably be 4-emitters + 4-batteries. That would be okay with me tho..
> 
> 3) ~ no arguments here ~
> ________________________________
> 
> Something nobody has mentioned for a while, and my greatest hope, is that ZL incorporates _*TIR optics*_ to better manage what I consider excessive spill. Because, the Lupines have TIR... ~grins~
> 
> Don't get me wrong; I love the 80-degree spill-cone of my SC600, I would just rather collate some of those lumen into the hot-spot. Imho, one only needs 200 Lm or so to avoid stepping into holes; imagine having all but that focused within the hot spot! ANSI-throw would be phenomenal because TIR optics can allocate lumens nearly independently of beam pattern.
> 
> Bottom line; my pocket EDC is a flooder - the SC600. It covers me well until I need to focus on objects that are more than, say, 20 meters away. If I'm going to buy another light for more *throw*, I'd rather keep (or even reduce) the spill I enjoy from my SC600 and boost the hot-spot by more than 3 times. Imho, TIR optics can collate 75% or more of OTF lumens into the spot-cone!



I liked that the S6330 was probably the safest multi-18650 light in existence. Having each cell separately power a different LED was inspired. No need to use cells of the same capacity or charge level. No risk of having one cell deplete, get reverse charged by the other cells and explode.

Personally, I'd like to see an even smaller version of the S6330... same triple LED setup, but with XM-L2 neutral LEDs. I'd like the bezel to be the same width as the battery tube to make.

TIR optics would be nice. Note that TIR optics can be made with spill to give a more traditional beam pattern. A TIR optic could be shorter than a reflector and make for a smaller light.


----------



## WmArnold1

Fireclaw18 said:


> TIR optics would be nice. Note that TIR optics can be made with spill to give a more traditional beam pattern. A TIR optic could be shorter than a reflector and make for a smaller light.



Exactly! The spill from a conventional reflector is just the raw LED spatial emission between 40 degrees and 10 degrees or so. (Ref) A TIR can "spill" a much smaller percentage of the total spatial emission into the same angular range.


----------



## tonkem

WmArnold1 said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings Davpet! Technically, there's only two throw parameters; spot-cone angle and OTF lumens within that spot-cone. But, deciding which beam pattern we like is the biggest factor affecting what throw we will get.
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto Tonkem; I find it most interesting that you switched a 15° beam to a 26° beam on one of your TL's. 20° or so seems to be the EDC sweet-spot for my lifestyle. Do you keep two TL's handy? One with 15° and the other with 26°?? That sounds like what I want to accomplish with a SC600 & S6330 - separate flashlights; one for near work and one for far work.
> 
> And, as a secondary "far work" flashlight, I wouldn't mind if my S6330 had six or even eight 18650's because I'd only bring it into play when I need more throw than my EDC provides. Meantime, I'd keep it in the glovebox, toolbox, or maybe even strapped onto the far side of my Bat-utility-belt. But the separate EDC will always be nearest & dearest to my heart and I can't imagine anyone EDC'ing any size of the S6330 without carrying something else too; maybe a key-chain light.. ~grins~
> 
> Sorry for rambling a little.. I envy you guys with the Lupines. Although TIR's are a lot more expensive to design & tool-up for, in the end, they're just injection molded parts too. ZebraLight could sell millions of them!!!



Currently I have the 15 deg 1100 lumen Wilma and a 26 deg 1300 lumen Wilma. I actually prefer the smaller head of the Wilma versus the larger head of the Betty. The 1300 more lumens of the Betty is not THAT much brighter, so I am content using and carrying the Wilma most of the time. The 1100 15 deg model does not throw that much further and has a bluer tint than the 26 deg with a warmer tint that is more like the Betty. 

I use the Betty on occasion, but grab for the 1300 lumen Wilma for most cases.


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## markr6

I would really like to see this light come back! Ever since it came out I didn't see a need for it, and I guess I still don't...but the wow factor from such a small light and great UI is pulling me in.


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## carl

new s6330 on ebay for $145 - looks like authorized dealer.


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## Zenbaas

carl said:


> new s6330 on ebay for $145 - looks like authorized dealer.



Link? Or rather PM...


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## Phry

Does anyone know the latest word from Zebralight about the S6330b?


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## Foot Hill

Phry said:


> Does anyone know the latest word from Zebralight about the S6330b?



Anyone? 
Very interested in this light.


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## carl

A ZL sales rep stated they stopped production of the regular S6330 temporarily to catch up on production of their smaller lights. However, if using a dedomed LED for greater throw/warmer tint is such a good idea from ZL's point of view, I would think they would have produced a dedomed SC600 by now - the fact they don't doesn't bode well for future prospects of the dedomed S6330b.

I do hope they resume production of the regular S6330 or make another multi-emitter, multi-battery light. We can always send the light to Vinh to get it dedomed by him.


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## Phry

carl said:


> A ZL sales rep stated they stopped production of the regular S6330 temporarily to catch up on production of their smaller lights. However, if using a dedomed LED for greater throw/warmer tint is such a good idea from ZL's point of view, I would think they would have produced a dedomed SC600 by now - the fact they don't doesn't bode well for future prospects of the dedomed S6330b.
> 
> I do hope they resume production of the regular S6330 or make another multi-emitter, multi-battery light. We can always send the light to Vinh to get it dedomed by him.


The S6330b had nothing to do with dome removal. 

It was going to be a bare emitter version, so no reflectors. 

It would be a few mm shorter due to this, and all flood.


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## carl

ok, I thought "bare" meant dedomed. I stand corrected. oops! I suppose if ZL has cancelled this "b" version, once could look at the new Eagletac flood light - the model escapes me at the moment - although without the nice ZL UI. 

BTW, the NIB S6330 on ebay sold for $173 about a week ago. If ZL never makes another hi-power multi-emitter light, I wonder if I should have bid on it.


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## g.p.

The sc6330 is still one of my most used lights. Really wish ZL would do another multi emitter light!


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## henry1960

Yes It Is...I have Mine On The Night Stand And Use It A Lot In Back Yard At Night....Would Be Nice If They Made Another!!


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## g.p.

Mine lives on the nightstand too. The super low levels and stable tail standing make it the perfect night light for when my little guy sneaks into our bedroom at night. Great for camping too...a level for every need.

Only downside is that there is no way to lock it out when throwing it into a bag or suitcase other than removing all of the batteries. I've never had it turn on accidentally though.


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## Lou Minescence

Is anyone running unprotected cells in their S6330 ? It is time for me to get some new cells for mine and I figured if the s6330 has a low voltage cut off I will get some unprotected cells. I'm currently running protected Eagtacs. I looked through this and other threads and couldn't find anyone mentioning running unprotected cells. 
Thanks.


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