# Eneloops vs energizer rechargeable?



## Brian321 (Apr 7, 2010)

Well i want to buy my first set of AA rechargeables, But i dont want to pay the shipping for the eneloops.

Is there any real difference in the quality of eneloops or the energizer rechargeables that i can get at walmart?

Or do you guys know where i can get some eneloops with free shipping?

Thanks,
Brian


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 7, 2010)

buy the duracell precharged nimh with the white tops, they are rebadged eneloops or commonly called duraloops. They are made in Japan so look closely at the batteries to make sure as the black top duracell precharged are rayovac hybrids rebadged and not quite as good.


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## Brian321 (Apr 7, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> buy the duracell precharged nimh with the white tops, they are rebadged eneloops or commonly called duraloops. They are made in Japan so look closely at the batteries to make sure as the black top duracell precharged are rayovac hybrids rebadged and not quite as good.


 
Can i get these locally? Im not sure if i saw them at walmart.

Thanks,
Brian


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## Russel (Apr 8, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Is there any real difference in the quality of eneloops or the energizer rechargeables that i can get at walmart?


 
Most definitely! Eneloops are the best AA NiMH recharables that I have ever used, and Energizers are the worst!


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## alpg88 (Apr 8, 2010)

i have both, i can't complain about energizer, they are not lsd cells, and have larger rated capacity. 
in my aplication energizers work fine, they only put out about 3 amps, i run tle 300 off them, it runs for a about an hour, bright.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 8, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Can i get these locally? Im not sure if i saw them at walmart.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian



I have seen them at walmart here but you may have to look near the camera section all around the area as they were not with the other batteries in some stores. They also sell them at Target but finding the white topped ones is like an easter egg hunt at times.


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## Robin24k (Apr 8, 2010)

Eneloops or Duraloops are definately worth the extra money. If you have access to Costco, they have a 8xAA and 2xAAA Duraloop pack for $18.49.


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## shark_za (Apr 8, 2010)

Short term performance wise you can get a few more mAh out of the Energisers if you use them straight off the charger. 

I got over 2100mAh most of the time.

I have a few Uniross "performance" cells rated at 2700mAh that show me 2500mAh at 500mA drains. 
If I am planning on using a light or camera extensively the next day I charge them up and use them fresh. 
For everything else I use Duraloops, old Hybrio's and GP Recyko. 

I cant comment on the durability of the Energisers as I stopped using them once I got some other high capacity cells.


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## Kestrel (Apr 8, 2010)

I've only used Eneloops (actually the Duraloop made-in-Japan-by-Sanyo variety) because the self-discharge from traditional NiMH cells (~1% per day) would drive me crazy - that's a deal breaker for me.

For budget 'LSD' (low-self-discharge) NiMH cells, see if you can find the Rayovac Hybrids or the 4.0's around - I hear that Fry's carries them at good prices. They are usually somewhat cheaper than the Eneloops but also not quite as good. I've read the CPF threads on the Rayovac LSD cells and I'd still choose them over any top-quality *non-LSD* cell - I really like knowing that a light I charged up a few months ago is at ~97% of maximum compared to being nearly completely drained, even though it hadn't been used. 

I'd even choose the Chinese-mfg 'black-top' Duracell LSD's (rebadged ROV 4.0's) if the price was good enough - IMO the normal price for these ones is somewhat higher than the comparable ROV's. These are very easy to find in Target, etc, but since the good sales from last year are now only a fond memory, I'm not a fan of the current shelf price.

Also, check online for free shipping on the Rayovac 4.0's - they are pretty common online and a lot of places carry them. Also, check the 'good deals' section on CPF/MP - particularly if you're patient enough to wait for a new good deal to be posted.


And we could also discuss the topic of older non-LSD NiMH cells which start to exhibit significantly greater self-discharge after only a couple years of use - which would make them them pretty near useless IMO. I intend on using my Duraloops for 5+ years, I fully expect them to retain much of their LSD property over that timeframe. Cheaper non-LSD NiMH's might be worthless due to high-self-discharge (I've read of situations as bad as completely drained in as little as 1-2 weeks) after only a few years. :shrug:


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## alpg88 (Apr 8, 2010)

to op.
to answer your question which first set of rechargeables you should buy, i recommend eneloops. assuming you don't use them in sst90 or 100w halogen light, at the amp rate eneloops wont do. 
you need elite 1700, or titanium high drain cells, neither is lsd, but at that discharge rate, you wont find lsd nimh cells


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## Apollo Cree (Apr 8, 2010)

If you have an app where you're going to always charge the batteries and use them the next day, the non-LSD (Low Self Discharge) batteries may be worth buying. 

I'll agree about the Rayovac 4.0 being worth buying for the cost savings if you can find them. My Fry's has Rayovac 4.0 for under $1.50 each. My convenient duraloop source is over $3.00. Consensus seems to be that Rayovac 4.0 is only slightly less good than Eneloop.


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## mrartillery (Apr 8, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Well i want to buy my first set of AA rechargeables, But i dont want to pay the shipping for the eneloops.
> 
> Is there any real difference in the quality of eneloops or the energizer rechargeables that i can get at walmart?
> 
> ...



Go with eneloops! Best AA available IMO! If shipping is your concern why not buy them from somewhere like Amazon? I recently just purchased 2-8 packs of Eneloops from Amazon and shipping was free! Something to consider....


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## Brian321 (Apr 8, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> Go with eneloops! Best AA available IMO! If shipping is your concern why not buy them from somewhere like Amazon? I recently just purchased 2-8 packs of Eneloops from Amazon and shipping was free! Something to consider....


 
Thats where i didnt want to buy them from, Because with the free shipping they werent going to ship untill sometime next week and i need them by friday(16th).

Also if im going to pay shipping i like to buy other things that way im not wasting my money on shipping.

However I did find eneloops at batteryjunction so i ordered them and a few other things this morning. 

Thanks for all the help,
Brian


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## mrartillery (Apr 8, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Thats where i didnt want to buy them from, Because with the free shipping they werent going to ship untill sometime next week and i need them by friday(16th).
> 
> Also if im going to pay shipping i like to buy other things that way im not wasting my money on shipping.
> 
> ...



Good work! :thumbsup:


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## Thanol (Apr 8, 2010)

Just a side note, the current Energizer 2300 mah AA NIMH are made by Sanyo in Japan.


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## mdocod (Apr 8, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Cheaper non-LSD NiMH's might be worthless due to high-self-discharge (I've read of situations as bad as completely drained in as little as 1-2 weeks) after only a few years. :shrug:



I guess you've never had the pleasure of using the OLD ENERGIZER 2500mAH cells. 

After a couple dozen cycles and about 1 year of age they would self discharge faster than the trickle rate of many chargers. 

From full to dead in a day of resting. 

After how many people had such horrible experiences with those 2500mAH Energizer branded cells, I am left with a very sour taste in my mouth over ever buying a rechargeable cell from energizer again. 

Eric


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## Brian321 (Apr 8, 2010)

mdocod said:


> I guess you've never had the pleasure of using the OLD ENERGIZER 2500mAH cells.
> 
> After a couple dozen cycles and about 1 year of age they would self discharge faster than the trickle rate of many chargers.
> 
> ...


 
Now thats funny....


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## Kestrel (Apr 8, 2010)

mdocod said:


> I guess you've never had the pleasure of using the OLD ENERGIZER 2500mAH cells. [...]


An experience like that would make me want to convert over to their line of alkaline cells for all my lights. :ironic:

Edit: I can just hear it now: "These fancy-shmancy rechargeables don't work fur nuthin', gotta stick with old reliable alkalines from now on."


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## mdocod (Apr 8, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> An experience like that would make me want to convert over to their line of alkaline cells for all my lights. :ironic:
> 
> Edit: I can just hear it now: "These fancy-shmancy rechargeables don't work fur nuthin', gotta stick with old reliable alkalines from now on."



Marketing much ploy? Conspiracy theorist be we may.


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## Russel (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanol said:


> Just a side note, the current Energizer 2300 mah AA NIMH are made by Sanyo in Japan.


 
I wish I'd have gotten the 2300mAh Energizers instead of the 2500mAh cells. The 2500mAh Energizers I bought self discharged at an increadble rate.


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## Robin24k (Apr 8, 2010)

I don't think that's true for all, I think they did the same thing as Duracell with the Pre-Charged. Some are made in Japan, and others are made in China. I have some 2300mAh ones that I got a couple months ago that were made in China.


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## Brian321 (Apr 8, 2010)

I was just at my local walmart and i saw the duracell with the white tops, The package said precharged, Are those the duraloops?

Are eneloops better than duraloops or are they about the same?

Thanks,
Brian


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## Robin24k (Apr 8, 2010)

Yup, those are Duraloops if they are white-topped and Made in Japan (check battery, packaging is not always 100%). I'm pretty sure there aren't Made in China white tops, but double-check just to be sure.

They are the same, just rebadged (hence the name).


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## TorchBoy (Apr 9, 2010)

Mmm, Eneloops.


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## Thanol (Apr 9, 2010)

Robin24k said:


> I don't think that's true for all, I think they did the same thing as Duracell with the Pre-Charged. Some are made in Japan, and others are made in China. I have some 2300mAh ones that I got a couple months ago that were made in China.


Hmmm... it could be old stock, but Energizer's older ni-mh lines (2450/2500) were switched to just being sourced from Sanyo rebranded 2300.


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## Ragiska (Apr 9, 2010)

Robin24k said:


> Yup, those are Duraloops if they are white-topped and Made in Japan (check battery, packaging is not always 100%). *I'm pretty sure there aren't Made in China white tops, but double-check just to be sure.*
> 
> They are the same, just rebadged (hence the name).



there are white top made in china duracell precharged.


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## Bones (Apr 9, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> there are white top made in china duracell precharged.



Egsise posted two images of the Sony Cycle Energy Blue which demonstrates this fact in his NiMH AA cell freezer test:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post3078054
-


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## Buck (Apr 10, 2010)

Russel said:


> I wish I'd have gotten the 2300mAh Energizers instead of the 2500mAh cells. The 2500mAh Energizers I bought self discharged at an increadble rate.



I (or rather my SO with my help) abused several sets of 2500 energizers in a Radio Shack LCD TV and they DID NOT LIKE IT! About 1/4 of the cells after 50 cycles would not hold a charge for more than a couple of days. I haven't treated my Eneloops quite as badly, usually, but they support high power drains better AND show amazing cell-to-cell consistency in parallel recharging on my Lacrosse 900. Usually all 4 cells come off at about 5% variance or less, while other NiMN brands (Energizer and Lacrosse, and very old Maha) vary by 10% when new, and 20% or more after being used for a while (and left unused now and then for a couple of months).

The eneloops are just obviously made to be much more durable and to much higher standards than the "higher capacity" cells. I have something like 20 AAs and 12 AAAs and have yet to have one fail to maintain its rated capacity on the charger, and running in an electric shaver, you can HEAR the difference in power! It's significant, as you can see from the high current curves in Silver Fox's tests. Cheap means cheap, not better value, in most cases. Spend a few bucks more for eneloops. They're worth it! :drunk:


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## kramer5150 (Apr 10, 2010)

Ditto what others have said. I have had no complaints form either my duraloops or ROV 4.0 cells.

IMHO in moderate current draw applications the ROV 4.0 cells are ~90% as good overall as ene/duraloops at 1/2 -to- 1/3 the price. If you're running high current incans stick with the ene/duraloops.

Energizers.... I have read too many BAD things about them from too many people on too many different www boards for me to openly recommend them. Even though my 2450 cells have been OK, topping them off every 2-3 weeks.


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## fishinfool (Apr 11, 2010)

Thanol said:


> Just a side note, the current Energizer 2300 mah AA NIMH are made by Sanyo in Japan.


 
Would these be comparable to Eneloops since they are made by Sanyo? I saw some of these at walmart while looking for duraloops. Thanks.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 11, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Would these be comparable to Eneloops since they are made by Sanyo? I saw some of these at walmart while looking for duraloops. Thanks.



the energizer 2300s are not LSD cells but if you get a good batch they discharge slow enough that you can get about the same capacity as the LSD cells if used within a few weeks of charging I think.


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## fishinfool (Apr 11, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> the energizer 2300s are not LSD cells but if you get a good batch they discharge slow enough that you can get about the same capacity as the LSD cells if used within a few weeks of charging I think.


 
Thanks Lynx! I have some older energizer 2450mah's that don't last very long but these newer energizer 2300's are suppose to be a lot better that the 2450's. Of course none of these come close to my eneloops.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 12, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Thanks Lynx! I have some older energizer 2450mah's that don't last very long but these newer energizer 2300's are suppose to be a lot better that the 2450's. Of course none of these come close to my eneloops.



I have some old 2300s, I have them in a few things I use and have to recharge them every 3-4 months. For stuff you don't use a set of batteries up more than once every month the eneloops start making more sense but for stuff you use them up and recharge weekly they are more cost effective IMO. Save the LSD cells for items that you find with dead nimh in them from self discharge.


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## fishinfool (Apr 13, 2010)

I use the energizers in remote controls and the eneloops in my flashlights and camera gear. I am now looking through DX at some 14500's and a charger.


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## mdocod (Apr 13, 2010)

Hello fishinfool,

Choose your charger wisely. 

Eric


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## fishinfool (Apr 13, 2010)

mdocod said:


> Hello fishinfool,
> 
> Choose your charger wisely.
> 
> Eric


 
Thanks Eric! I was stuck on the Pila IBC, the Cytac 139 from 4sevens, and the UltraFire WF-139 from DX. I ended up ordering the UltraFire WF-139 along with TrustFire Protected 14500's, 18650's and 16340's. These are my first Li-ion batts and charger. Before this was AA eneloops, energizers and the c9000.


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## Apollo Cree (Apr 13, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Would these be comparable to Eneloops since they are made by Sanyo? I saw some of these at walmart while looking for duraloops. Thanks.



Just because it's made by Sanyo doesn't mean it's LSD - Low Self Discharge or "Eneloop." Does anyone know for sure whether Sanyo makes non-LSD NiMH batteries? 

Note that "black top made in China" Duracell precharged, or Rayovac 4.0 batteries are only a little less good than Eneloops. They're much better than non-LSD NiMH batteries.


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## fishinfool (Apr 13, 2010)

Even though they're not as good as eneloops i still have plenty of use for them. They're still better than alkalines right?


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## Brian321 (Apr 13, 2010)

Do eneloops have as much MAH as a energizer lithium? ( Im not really sure how much MAH primary AA's have).

Thanks,
Brian


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## Apollo Cree (Apr 13, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Even though they're not as good as eneloops i still have plenty of use for them. They're still better than alkalines right?



The main concerns would be: 

1) High self discharge - How much capacity will they have left 1, 2, or more weeks after you charge them? 

2) Lifetime - How quickly does the capacity decrease vs. time and number of cycles?


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## Avatar28 (Apr 13, 2010)

I haven't looked lately but if you have one up there the H.H. Gregg stores around here were selling the Eneloop 4xAA packs for like $7 or $7.50.


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## fishinfool (Apr 14, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> The main concerns would be:
> 
> 1) High self discharge - How much capacity will they have left 1, 2, or more weeks after you charge them?
> 
> 2) Lifetime - How quickly does the capacity decrease vs. time and number of cycles?


 
Well I'm almost at the end of a break-in mode of 4 of these new energizer 2300 nimh's, so I think I'll experiment with these and check their capacity with my ZTS MBT-1 battery tester once a week for several weeks. I'll keep you posted.

Lifetime? Well I started a spreadsheet for all my eneloop, energizer, and duracell nimh rechargeables. I've got each one numbered and we'll just have to wait and see how they all compare over time. So far I'm only keeping track of mAh and the difference in mAh compared to the last charge, R/A or break-in. Should I keep track of the voltage too? It seems like the voltages are the same most of the time and really don't change much.


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## InHisName (Apr 14, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> The main concerns would be:
> 
> 1) High self discharge - How much capacity will they have left 1, 2, or more weeks after you charge them?
> 
> 2) Lifetime - How quickly does the capacity decrease vs. time and number of cycles?


Yes and also the impedance of the cells increases and messes up the ability to deliver higher currents or even medium currents. Eventually only low currents give nearly the same capacity. The C9000 shows a brief number (1.68) on my AAA Duraloops right after starting to charge. Then the voltage shows 1.24 or what ever is normal at begining of charge. When it increases over 2.08 or so THEN you will see HIGH and it refuses to charge the cell. Need a lower pulsed current charger than the 2 amps.

To fishinfool, if you have a c9000, record the impedance test voltage for each cell and note changes over the long time. Keeping track of this will give you early warning of when a battery looses capacity at high current drains.


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## thebeans (Apr 14, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Well i want to buy my first set of AA rechargeables, But i dont want to pay the shipping for the eneloops.
> 
> Is there any real difference in the quality of eneloops or the energizer rechargeables that i can get at walmart?
> 
> ...



Amazon has Enloops with free shipping. Not sure how their prices compare to others. $20.07 for 8 AA, $10.84 for 4 AA, $31.20 for a Power Pack which includes 8 AA, 2 AAA, 4 D and 4 C adapters, and a charger. Enloops


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## Thanol (Apr 14, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Just because it's made by Sanyo doesn't mean it's LSD - Low Self Discharge or "Eneloop." Does anyone know for sure whether Sanyo makes non-LSD NiMH batteries?
> 
> Note that "black top made in China" Duracell precharged, or Rayovac 4.0 batteries are only a little less good than Eneloops. They're much better than non-LSD NiMH batteries.



The materials that I saw on the 2300mah show that they don't retain charge as well as regular LSD's (I'm not sure what brand they used to benchmark) but the difference wasn't that huge (~5-10%) in comparison to the older 2450mah (which was at like <50% retained on the same graph).

Edit: I looked at the graphs again and at 6 months the new Energizer 2300mahs were estimated to be at 83% capacity and at 12 months 80%.


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## fishinfool (Apr 14, 2010)

InHisName said:


> Yes and also the impedance of the cells increases and messes up the ability to deliver higher currents or even medium currents. Eventually only low currents give nearly the same capacity. The C9000 shows a brief number (1.68) on my AAA Duraloops right after starting to charge. Then the voltage shows 1.24 or what ever is normal at begining of charge. When it increases over 2.08 or so THEN you will see HIGH and it refuses to charge the cell. Need a lower pulsed current charger than the 2 amps.
> 
> *To fishinfool, if you have a c9000, record the impedance test voltage for each cell and note changes over the long time. Keeping track of this will give you early warning of when a battery looses capacity at high current drains.*


 
How do I go about doing that? Do I need a dmm? Sorry but I still have A LOT to learn.


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## Russel (Apr 14, 2010)

MH-C9000 Impedance test


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## fishinfool (Apr 14, 2010)

Russel said:


> MH-C9000 Impedance test


 
Thanks Russ!


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## TakeTheActive (Apr 15, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Thanks Russ!


*Interpreting Maha MH-C9000 Impedance Check Voltage*​


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## fishinfool (Apr 15, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> *Interpreting Maha MH-C9000 Impedance Check Voltage*​


 
I am now keeping track of the Impedance Test voltage along with the end of charge mah. I am doing a break-in of some energizer aaa 850's and the impedance test voltages are 1.56v, 1.63v, 1.58v, and 1.62v. So according to your post they are:

*~1.60VDC: *Healthy, vibrant, probably new; provides GT 90% Capacity.

Thanks TakeTheActive!


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## bstrickler (Apr 17, 2010)

I have a pair of 4+ year old white Duracells that are still going. Still run for about 45-50 minutes in my AA^2 Quark, on max (about 2 amp draw). The other 4 I had were goners, unfortunately (maybe 30 seconds on high, before the light went out, and wouldn't take a charge after that).

Right now, I use the white Duracells, 2450 Energizers, and some 1600 mah green batteries (can't remember their name off the top of my head. But they're about as old as the Duracells, maybe older).

Don't buy the Energizer charger/battery combo! Those are POS chargers and cells. They're chinese cells, which dent VERY easily. My Quark tailspring dented the bottom of the cells. And that spring isn't as strong as some other AA lights I have. Plus, the charger sucks. Overcharges the batteries (1.65-1.7v), and causes em to get hot.

The 2450's are Japanese cells, and are much higher quality than their Chinese counterparts (think titanium vs aluminum in strength, and you have the quality comparison).

~Brian


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## mikekoz (May 1, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Would these be comparable to Eneloops since they are made by Sanyo? I saw some of these at walmart while looking for duraloops. Thanks.


 

I just bought some Energizer Recharge AA cells which I have not seen before. They are 2300mah, made in Japan, and they claim to hold a charge better than their 2450mah cells over the course of a year. I bought some other Energizer 2300mah NIMH cells several months back that had similar claims, and they work great. They both were not labelled "precharged" or "LSD", but they definitely do not discharge quickly.


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## Light Sabre (May 1, 2010)

I have 8 of the New Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeables. On my BC-900 they all came in right on the money mAh wise, just like the Duraloops do. They are made in Japan, but obviously they are not LSD. Not much difference in mAh between 2000 to 2100 Duraloops and the 2300 Energizers, so the Duraloops are the much better deal in the long run.


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## fishinfool (May 1, 2010)

mikekoz said:


> I just bought some Energizer Recharge AA cells which I have not seen before. They are 2300mah, made in Japan, and they claim to hold a charge better than their 2450mah cells over the course of a year. I bought some other Energizer 2300mah NIMH cells several months back that had similar claims, and they work great. They both were not labelled "precharged" or "LSD", but they definitely do not discharge quickly.


 
I also bought a few of these new 2300's and so far they are great. I still have some older 2450's that I still use in remote controls plus I found a couple older 2200's that still hold a charge. All of them I noticed are made in Japan but I don't see anything that says Sanyo on any of them.


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## fishinfool (May 1, 2010)

Here are the break-in numbers on the 8 energizer 2300's I bought 2-3 weeks ago: 

2272, 2270, 2238, 2276, 2295, 2276, 2260, and 2267.

We'll see how they do after a few months of use.


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## Lynx_Arc (May 1, 2010)

mikekoz said:


> I just bought some Energizer Recharge AA cells which I have not seen before. They are 2300mah, made in Japan, and they claim to hold a charge better than their 2450mah cells over the course of a year. I bought some other Energizer 2300mah NIMH cells several months back that had similar claims, and they work great. They both were not labelled "precharged" or "LSD", but they definitely do not discharge quickly.



the energizer 2300s generally are good cells, I got about 20 of them about 5 years ago for about $6 a 4 pack on clearance when the 2500s came out. I recommend them as daily use or even monthly use cells if you can get them cheaper than duraloops on sale as they tend to discharge in about 3-6 months and have over half a charge left a month after charging which for most times is very useful. In a power outage I had a dozen of them I cycled through my car charger for 4 days powering a CCFL light and lantern here, they don't mind being charged fast either... 1-2 hour chargers are no problem.


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## Light Sabre (May 1, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Here are the break-in numbers on the 8 energizer 2300's I bought 2-3 weeks ago:
> 
> 2272, 2270, 2238, 2276, 2295, 2276, 2260, and 2267.
> 
> We'll see how they do after a few months of use.


 
I got similar readings on my 8.


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## fishinfool (May 1, 2010)

I've been buying different nimh brands just to see how they compare to my eneloops over time. So far I have Powerex 2700's, Energizer 2450's, 2300's, 2200's, Duracell 2450's, 2000 regulars, 2000 duraloops, Rayovac platinum 2100's, and Diehard (Sears) 2000's. I've been keeping track of everything and anything about these batteries so we will see how they do over time. 

Man, I think I need a life. :thinking:


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## 07accordEX (Feb 28, 2012)

fishinfool said:


> I've been buying different nimh brands just to see how they compare to my eneloops over time. So far I have Powerex 2700's, Energizer 2450's, 2300's, 2200's, Duracell 2450's, 2000 regulars, 2000 duraloops, Rayovac platinum 2100's, and Diehard (Sears) 2000's. I've been keeping track of everything and anything about these batteries so we will see how they do over time.
> 
> Man, I think I need a life. :thinking:



Just curious which you found to be best? I am looking into the Ansmann 2850's


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