# Can these Eneloops be trusted?



## Igor Porto (Dec 7, 2008)

Hi, after everybody talking how much the Eneloops are good, I decided to try them. I currently use Sony 2500mAh NiMH AAs, but I haven't seen how much they self discharge. Since I don't have a charger that measures the mAh, I'll just charge one and let it sit and test the voltage every day with a multimeter.

In www.batteryjunction.com the 4-pack Eneloops cost US$12, but the shipping costs US$21 to Brazil. Too expensive.

I found Eneloops on www.dealextreme.com for R$17.95 a 4-pack with free shipping. About half the price from batteryjunction.com for me.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6807

Are these genuine and can be trusted, since www.dealextreme.com is a chinese store?

Are there any other LSD AAs that has more than 2000mAh power? Isn't 2000mAh too little compared to the other 2500/2700mAh brands?

Thank you guys.


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## Mr Happy (Dec 8, 2008)

Can they be trusted?

Short answer: don't know.

Long answer:

The retail price for Eneloops is $14-$18 when not discounted. Those are in that range.

I bought a pack of 4 Eneloops in Tokyo that came in a package that looked just like that (except my package was produced for the Japanese domestic market and labeled in Japanese rather than Chinese). See here for pictures.

So on balance, the price and packaging are consistent with the genuine product.


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## Bonky (Dec 8, 2008)

While DX has an ok reputation, I wouldn't get batteries shipped from outside your country unless they're a GREAT deal.


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## Ziemas (Dec 8, 2008)

Bonky said:


> While DX has an ok reputation, I wouldn't get batteries shipped from outside your country unless they're a GREAT deal.


For those of us outside the US, it usually IS a great deal to order from outside of our countries. I'm not paying $30 for four AA batteries at the local store.


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## Bonky (Dec 8, 2008)




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## Ziemas (Dec 8, 2008)

Bonky said:


>


Sayno 2700, to be exact.


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## yellow (Dec 8, 2008)

when "testing" cells just by measuring the voltage, You should also put a load at the cell the same time. Else the data is useless.

PS: make it easier --> USE the cells.
just put into whatever gadget and take the time it runs.
(slows down the whole process, as they have to be recharged and then the self-discharge time starts again ...
but my normal Ni-Mhs are so bad by now - even one day after charging they suck. At multicell application, the chance to get some bummers is very high.
Out of my precharged cells (Eneloop and Uniross Hybrio) not a single one is bad. With the normal Ni-Mhs, one out of a 4-cell pack being next to useless, is an average "value" I have encountered)


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## LEDninja (Dec 8, 2008)

Duracell Pre Charged MADE IN JAPAN are supposed to be the same battery as the Eneloop. You may have better luck finding them locally.
http://www.duracell.com/ca/precharged/en/default.asp

2500 maH Rayovac Hybrids
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/215136


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## UnknownVT (Dec 9, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Duracell Pre Charged MADE IN JAPAN are supposed to be the same battery as the Eneloop. You may have better luck finding them locally.
> http://www.duracell.com/ca/precharged/en/default.asp


 
That's a very good point -

The made in Japan with white top surrounding the +ve button Duracell Pre-Charged are confirmed rebadged eneloops - nicknamed by CPF as "Dura-Loop".

see Duracell Pre-Charged Rechargeables - Buyer Advisory ...

White top surrounds -






Made in Japan 





If you notice the Duracell shoulder is slightly lower and the +ve button slightly longer than my earlier/older eneloop - dated 06-10.

The DuraLoops are also similarly dated (? - embossed on the clear wrapping, but not in the same format) as "7G05" (2007/July/05)

(note: later eneloops - from about 11/2006 on - called "eneloop-R" (link) in other parts of the world - due to the addition of the "R" - registered trademark sign on the end of the name, are lower shouldered with longer +ve buttons)


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## kosPap (Dec 10, 2008)

while on the dura-loop subject, have you kept the packaging? And compare barcodes?
The first numbers indicate country of origin and manufacturer code I think....


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## LEDninja (Dec 10, 2008)

I did not not keep my packaging.
If you look at UnknownVT's picture, above the word DURACELL in the small print it is labelled MADA IN JAPAN.

Check for that as Duracell also sells MADE IN CHINA batteries. The CHINA is in the same spot as the word JAPAN. Most of these are in their charger packs. These are the same as RayOvac Hybrids and are designed by Panasonic. My digital camera do not like them.

EDIT
I have more RayOvac Hybrids than the Japan Duraloops and they work equally well in everything but my digital camera. So they are not a bad battery and they WERE a lot cheaper than the Duraloops. I do not have a Costco membership so I only have a few Eneloops. The Source (Circuit City) was charging $29.95/4 pack!


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## Daravon (Dec 10, 2008)

Local Target has both the chinese and japanese duracell pre-charged on the same peg. The made in china ones have a black top, the japanese have a white top, and the flourecsent green label on the cells is a bit different. They also have charger packs with both. So they are thoroughly mixed.

I though rayovac hybrids had a pretty decent reputation? Though not the supermegaawosomeness that is eneloop. But still, they should work ok right.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 10, 2008)

kosPap said:


> while on the dura-loop subject, have you kept the packaging? And compare barcodes?
> The first numbers indicate country of origin and manufacturer code I think....


 
I only have the Made in Japan white top version - 
as I had read this Duracell Pre-Charged Rechargeables - Buyer Advisory ... 
so was aware of the Made in China black top version 
(BTW - I have seen black top version in regular AAA 4 packs)

AA barcode (and Made in Japan) - US packaging -


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## Black Rose (Dec 10, 2008)

Daravon said:


> I though rayovac hybrids had a pretty decent reputation? Though not the supermegaawosomeness that is eneloop. But still, they should work ok right.


I have a bunch of them that I use in Wii remotes, a Uniden scanner, and some less demanding flashlights. 

The Hybrids are advertised to maintain 80% charge after 6 months versus 85% after 1 year for the Eneloops.

I have no problems with the Hybrids that I have.

I have more Eneloops simply due to product availability.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 10, 2008)

Daravon said:


> I though rayovac hybrids had a pretty decent reputation? Though not the supermegaawosomeness that is eneloop. But still, they should work ok right.


 


Black Rose said:


> I have a bunch of them that I use in Wii remotes, a Uniden scanner, and some less demanding flashlights.
> The Hybrids are advertised to maintain 80% charge after 6 months versus 85% after 1 year for the Eneloops.
> I have no problems with the Hybrids that I have.


 
There are obviously measurable differences - but whether these are meaningful or significant depends on the application.

Most of the LSD batteries are for most practical purposes about the same.

However eneloops have consistently been the "best" by both reputation and reports in terms of overall electrical charateristics 
(yes, there have been some LSD that seem to "beat" the eneloop in self-discharge tests - like Maha Imedion, Kodak Pre-Charged and GP ReCyko)

But if we look at SilverFox's excellent Eneloop Self Discharge study one can see that eneloops can deliver at the limit, higher currents than the RoV Hybrid (or GP ReCyko - my speculation Kodak Pre-Charge are re-badges?), eneloops also maintain higher operating voltage under-load - which can be important for voltage sensitive devices 

eg: my Pentax K100D dSLR which is notorious for being very battery fussy - please see summary Post #*57* in eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance - where I showed that eneloops over longer term were better than the Kodak Pre-Charged (GP ReCyko re-badges?) - which otherwise were really very good, matching the eneloops stride-for-stride in conventional tests like flashlight runtimes.

So, for now I would buy eneloops as first choice or any confirmed re-badges - 
over any other LSD, unless there is a non-trivial price difference.
(the only exception might be the gray/green color scheme UltraLast Hybrios please see When is a Hybrio not a Hybrio? )

The DuraLoops are normally premium/over priced at most high street shops - but they do occassionally go on sale so can be had for <$10/4


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## Black Rose (Dec 10, 2008)

Good points Vincent.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 26, 2009)

UnknownVT said:


> I only have the Made in Japan white top version -
> as I had read this Duracell Pre-Charged Rechargeables - Buyer Advisory ...
> so was aware of the Made in China black top version
> (BTW - I have seen black top version in regular AAA 4 packs)
> ...



I just found, but did not buy black topped duraloops at Walgreens B&M. The battery and box both say made in Japan. Any idea what they could be? repackaged eneloop? chinese fakes? If they are just Japan eneloops with Duracell label, I will buy them.


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## Mr Happy (Jun 26, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I just found, but did not buy black topped duraloops at Walgreens B&M. The battery and box both say made in Japan. Any idea what they could be? repackaged eneloop? chinese fakes? If they are just Japan eneloops with Duracell label, I will buy them.


No idea what they could be. They are Duracell Pre-Charged with 2000 mAh capacity?

The only way to tell more is to look at them very closely and see if they look like eneloops. The positive end in particular is very distinctive and is hard to confuse with other batteries.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 26, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> No idea what they could be. They are Duracell Pre-Charged with 2000 mAh capacity?
> 
> The only way to tell more is to look at them very closely and see if they look like eneloops. The positive end in particular is very distinctive and is hard to confuse with other batteries.



If memory serves it was ~2600. I will go back tomorrow and look at them and take a picture if security will let me.


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## Mr Happy (Jun 26, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> If memory serves it was ~2600. I will go back tomorrow and look at them and take a picture if security will let me.


No need to take a picture, it will not help much. But eneloops are 2000 mAh. If the batteries you see are not 2000 mAh they cannot be rebadged eneloops.

If I recall correctly, someone else has also mentioned these other Duracell batteries that are made in Japan. There are several battery manufacturers in Japan though, so there is no simple way to tell which one made these.


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## BatteryCharger (Jun 27, 2009)

So how do we know *FOR SURE* the white topped Duracells are rebadged Eneloops? Just 'cause they look the same and have the same country of origin? Is there any other proof? Even if they are made in the Eneloop factory they could still be different than actual Eneloops - chemistry, quality, etc...


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## Mr Happy (Jun 27, 2009)

BatteryCharger said:


> So how do we know *FOR SURE* the white topped Duracells are rebadged Eneloops? Just 'cause they look the same and have the same country of origin? Is there any other proof? Even if they are made in the Eneloop factory they could still be different than actual Eneloops - chemistry, quality, etc...


Well you can't know for sure. If you want that level of certainty you will have to buy genuine eneloops.

All I can say is that some of us have tested the Duracell version and have found the performance to match up with expectations.


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## Sanyo.Eneloop (Jun 27, 2009)

Eneloop is the Best NiMH available.


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## h2xblive (Jun 27, 2009)

Sanyo.Eneloop said:


> Eneloop is the Best NiMH available.



Well, eneloops aren't always the best NiMH. High capacity NiMH batteries do have their applications.


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## travelinman (Jun 27, 2009)

h2xblive said:


> Well, eneloops aren't always the best NiMH. High capacity NiMH batteries do have their applications.



In my use of both high end NiMH and Eneloops in ham radio uses, I am finding that the NiMH cells can be just as good if used regularily and not mistreated. High on the list of abuse situations is leaving them at too low a voltage (below about 0.8v) for too long, charging them too fast (above 0.5C) or discharging them below 0.5v or so.

The eneloops seem to be a little better at withstanding these abuses, partially I suspect because they are put together with more precision and as such are not as easily harmed by heat.

The best way to gauge the health of my cells is to place them in a LaCrosse BC 700 charger on "Test" mode. That charges them up to full capacity, then discharges them under load (your choice of loads) and them charges them back up again. It then reports on the number of Milli Amps it got out of the cell. That also "exercises" the cell.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 27, 2009)

I just got back from Walgreens. The black top duraloops. Sorry, forgot to check out the look of the nub.

The box says:
AA4
MIGNON/HR6/DC1500

Duracell Rechargeable 2650 mAh
NiMH 1.2V
2005 Made in Japan

The battery says:
Duracell Rechargeable 2650 mAh
AA/HR6/DC1500 NiMH 1.2V
Standard charge 270 Ma for 16h
Made in Japan

Do not open, dispose of in fire or short circuit.


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## Mr Happy (Jun 27, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> The black top duraloops.


Please. They are not 'Duraloops'. If you call them that you will confuse people.


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I just got back from Walgreens. The black top duraloops. Sorry, forgot to check out the look of the nub.



Durahybrids, NOT Duraloops.


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## Wattnot (Jun 27, 2009)

I just bought an 8 pack of Dura-loops on fleaby but I don't have them yet. The seller states right in the auction that they are made in Japan. 

Are the black top ones in the packaging that says made in Japan really made in China? Can anyone find out for sure?


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> Are the black top ones in the packaging that says made in Japan really made in China? Can anyone find out for sure?



The description was for 2650's, not Duraloops.


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## Bones (Jun 27, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I just got back from Walgreens. The black top duraloops. Sorry, forgot to check out the look of the nub.
> 
> The box says:
> AA4
> ...



I think you encountered Duracell's 2650mAh high-capacity NiMH cell, which they appear to be in the process of naming the 'Supreme'. Insofar as I'm aware, it has always had a black material surrounding the positive post and it has always been made in Japan. They are definitely regular chemistry and not low self-discharge NiMH cells.

I would be interested as to which, if any, of the following images resemble the cells you saw in Walgreens:


















For more on Duracell's NiMH cell re-naming and catagorization iniative, see this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2995756
-


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## Wattnot (Jun 27, 2009)

Ahhh. Thank you Marduke and Bones. It didn't click at first but I see the 2650 now. 

I wanted the actual Eneloops but everyone's price was still a tad high so I went with the CPFMP "good deals" recommendation for the Duraloops on ebay from



seller media_mill. It's a good deal. I'm getting 8 AA for $16 shipped.

Eneloops are awesome. I tried them in my Canon EX430II flash and from a full manual discharge, it was ready in 3 seconds. It takes about twice that with alkalines. Also, I can run only 4 of them in my TK40 with full output - no problem.


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## Mr Happy (Jun 27, 2009)

[deleted]


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## Bones (Jun 27, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> Ahhh. Thank you Marduke and Bones. It didn't click at first but I see the 2650 now.
> 
> I wanted the actual Eneloops but everyone's price was still a tad high so I went with the CPFMP "good deals" recommendation for the Duraloops on ebay from
> 
> ...



That is a good price Wattnot.

Hopefully, you purchased from this auction, which states the cells are 'made in Japan', as opposed this auction, which is silent as to the origin of the cells.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 27, 2009)

Bones said:


> I would be interested as to which, if any, of the following images resemble the cells you saw in Walgreens:




*This One.* Without the swirly above the AA.


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2009)

Those are high capacity cells, NOT low self discharge.


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## Bones (Jun 28, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> *This One.* Without the swirly above the AA.
> 
> (Image)



The actual Duraloop package should resemble one of these Flashlight Aficionado:












It should also be labelled as 'Pre-charged' or 'Active Charge' as shown. The capacity, if stated, should be about 2000mAh, and the cells themselves should be clearly labelled as having been made in Japan. They should also have a white material surrounding the positive post.

If the cells you're finding don't meet these criteria, they're not re-badged Eneloops.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 28, 2009)

Bones said:


> The actual Duraloop package should resemble one of these Flashlight Aficionado:
> 
> It should also be labelled as 'Pre-charged' or 'Active Charge' as shown. The capacity, if stated, should be about 2000mAh, and the cells themselves should be clearly labelled as having been made in Japan. They should also have a white material surrounding the positive post.
> 
> If the cells you're finding don't meet these criteria, they're not re-badged Eneloops.



It looks almost exactly like this one, except the package is cardboard back and plastic front. The was no "Active Charge". (I copied the words verbatim in my other post) I also saw this exact picture, which I bought. They were 800 & 2000 mAh and had white tops.  But they only had one package of AA and one of AAA left. :sigh:


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## Marduke (Jun 28, 2009)

Can you make up your mind?

You quoted specs for high cap, showed a pic for high cap and said you bought those, then show a pic for LSD and say you bought those.

Which is it?

What does it say ON THE BATTERIES YOU BOUGHT.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 28, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Can you make up your mind?
> 
> You quoted specs for high cap, showed a pic for high cap and said you bought those, then show a pic for LSD and say you bought those.
> 
> ...



The batteries I "bought" were Duracell Eneloops. The AAs looked exactly like the picture I posted. The AAA were obviously a little different.

Why it is confusing and also why I posted about the blacktop Duracells is the package of White top and black top were exactly the same, save for two differences. The mAh (lower for Duracell Eneloops) and the package itself (all plastic for Duracell Eneloops & cardboard and plastic for black top Duracells)

I recognized the "Duraloops" immediately and bought them. I also saw the black tops were made in Japan and wondered if they too could be repackaged Eneloops. I then posted here.

I have the Duraloop packages. Do you want me to post some pictures?


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## Mr Happy (Jun 28, 2009)

There are many, many types of rechargeable battery in the world, and only one of them is the eneloop. There are even many different types of rechargeable battery made in Japan, and even many made by Sanyo, but only one, just one, of those is the eneloop. If you are not sure how to tell them apart, your best option is to buy actual branded eneloops.


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## Marduke (Jun 29, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> The batteries I "bought" were Duracell Eneloops. The AAs looked exactly like the picture I posted. The AAA were obviously a little different.
> 
> Why it is confusing and also why I posted about the blacktop Duracells is the package of White top and black top were exactly the same, save for two differences. The mAh (lower for Duracell Eneloops) and the package itself (all plastic for Duracell Eneloops & cardboard and plastic for black top Duracells)
> 
> ...



Again, you are greatly confused. The picture you posted was NOT for Duraloops.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 29, 2009)

Here is what I bought. I uploaded the pictures that I just took.


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## Marduke (Jun 29, 2009)

As you hopefully see, those pictures are not what you posted before and stated "they look just like this"

Also, those prices are pretty aweful...


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## travelinman (Jun 29, 2009)

OK, for all you Canadians reading this, you can get 4 AA President's Choice LSD (rebranded eneloops) for $12.99. Here's what they look like, the authentic eneloop is on the left, the president's choice rebranded eneloop is on the right and the package is below. And yes, the back of the package states "Made in Japan".


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## DM51 (Jun 30, 2009)

Marduke said:


> As you hopefully see, those pictures are not what you posted before and stated "they look just like this"


They look exacly the same to me - different pictures of the same product, as far as I can tell. Where do you see a difference?


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## Marduke (Jun 30, 2009)

DM51 said:


> They look exacly the same to me - different pictures of the same product, as far as I can tell. Where do you see a difference?



The pic in post 35 is of 2650's, not Duraloops.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 30, 2009)

Marduke - You do realize I was talking about two things at the same time, which I admit can get confusing.

I first posted about the black tops, which had the 2650 mAh. I only posted to find out if black tops could be rebranded eneloops too. They're not, thanks :wave: for the clarification. Later on, I mentioned I bought the white tops. I never described those, because I knew they were eneloops, until I was prodded to do so. 

The pictures I took and posted of the boxes say 2000 and 800 mAh. The mAh is only written on the back, which I didn't take a picture of. I also took a picture of the tops to show they were white topped.

Oh, post #35 is what I saw, but did not buy at the B & M.

I hope that clears things up.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jul 26, 2009)

Has anybody removed the outer covering of a Duraloop? I was wondering if underneath it actually has an Eneloop labeled casing.


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## Marduke (Jul 26, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Has anybody removed the outer covering of a Duraloop? I was wondering if underneath it actually has an Eneloop labeled casing.




Why would it? The factory puts on seperate shrink wrap casings for each customer. It would be unnecessarily expensive to put on two, and make the cell unnecessarily thick.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jul 27, 2009)

what if there is an identifying digit series printed on the cases? or big red letters that say "ENELOOP"?

BTW, saw some 4-packs of 2000mAh pre-charged nimh made in japan white-top batteries with 4 holes and a very very slightly square-shaped button in Wallyworld by the garden stuff, hidden at one of the aisle-ends facing the side wall. $9.00 on clearance. Don't remember the brand, but it was some red, maybe orange package, wasn't Westinghouse, but there were a lot of westinghouse rechargable batteries on that same aisle-end. Next time I'm there, I'll try to confirm.


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## MarioJP (Sep 13, 2009)

What I don't understand is why does something like this exist??. I mean any company like Duracell should make their own LSD batteries. Why would they get another's manufacture batteries and then label it their own???.

There has to be a reason why Duracell can not make their own LSD batteries. This is confusing. If this was not confusing enough, people can get mixed up with primary copper top disposable alkaline if you looked at the cell without looking at it carefully first.

I like these batteries but I just wished it was from Duracell not Duraloop.


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## Marduke (Sep 13, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> What I don't understand is why does something like this exist??. I mean any company like Duracell should make their own LSD batteries. Why would they get another's manufacture batteries and then label it their own???.
> 
> There has to be a reason why Duracell can not make their own LSD batteries. This is confusing. If this was not confusing enough, people can get mixed up with primary copper top disposable alkaline if you looked at the cell without looking at it carefully first.
> 
> *I like these batteries but I just wished it was from Duracell not Duraloop.*



Why? What makes you think Duracell's batteries would be any better? To my knowledge all of their NiMH cells are rebrands of someone else's.


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## MarioJP (Sep 13, 2009)

I was just curious to see why.


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## alfreddajero (Sep 14, 2009)

Sorry if i sound a bit confused here, but what is the difference between the precharged and active charged cells. Too me they both sound like lsd cells.


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## Bones (Sep 14, 2009)

alfreddajero said:


> Sorry if i sound a bit confused here, but what is the difference between the precharged and active charged cells. Too me they both sound like lsd cells.



Insofar as I'm aware, there is no difference, and thus far the 'Active Charge' label seems to be restricted to the United Kingdom and parts of Europe:

http://www.duracell.com/uk/products-list-cells.aspx

It remains to be seen whether Duracell intends to change the label for the North American market as well, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of this to date.


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## alfreddajero (Sep 15, 2009)

Thank you Bones for the clarification......thought it was new but it sounded like the same thing.


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