# New lathe arrived yesterday!



## jhanko (Sep 30, 2010)

After 2 months of research, I finally decided on a CNC lathe. The wait paid off as I ended up getting a great deal on a great machine with lots of tooling. I got a Mazak Quickturn 6T. It has a Kitagawa 3 jaw chuck and a collet chuck with a complete set of collets, including many Royal expanding internal collets. The shop is still being built, so it's in the garage until it's done. I'm using this time to go over it and get it ready for reliable service.

I couldn't sleep at all knowing the truck was coming in the morning. It arrived safe and sound, but incomplete. The coolant tank didn't make it on the truck. The owner found it and is shipping it soon.

I'm still looking for a small cnc mill with a 4th axis. I'll probably end up getting a Mikini.

Well, time to get back to reading. I have 8 manuals the size of Chicago phone books to read. Hear's a few pics as it arrived...


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## precisionworks (Sep 30, 2010)

Awesome choice ... 7000 rpm spindle, 7.5hp, best control interface in the business. Hard to beat a QT6T :thumbsup:

I know a Mazak consultant, if you ever have the need. His rates are reasonable if you hit any software or hardware snags.


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## Zeruel (Sep 30, 2010)

oo: ooooooooo...


Wow...made in Singapore. :kiss:


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## 350xfire (Sep 30, 2010)

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!


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## nanoxd (Sep 30, 2010)

Whoa.


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## mototraxtech (Sep 30, 2010)

looks awesome. Very clean as well!


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## PEU (Oct 1, 2010)

Awesome, congratulations!

I browse for CNC lathes at ebay from time to time, the current prices are ridiculously low, but importing used machinery and specially lathes to Argentina is a very complicated task :shakehead

I know our very own ex-moderator Rothrandir owns a Mazak too


Pablo
PS: tool envy all over here


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 1, 2010)

Congrats! That looks like a nice machine. How many positions does the turret have?


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## jhanko (Oct 1, 2010)

I flew out to look at it before I decided. It was under power, but not being used. The spindle sounded spooky. It sounded just like a VFD driven motor with nothing attached to it. I thought I would feel nervous standing in front of a spindle turning 6500rpm, but it sounded so good I had to relax. I don't think I'd feel the same with the 3 jaw chuck attached though, even though the chuck says it's balanced to 7K rpm.

This one has an 8 position turret. 12 was an option.


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## precisionworks (Oct 1, 2010)

The rapid specs are 1181 IPM :thumbsup:

That equals 98.4 feet per minute, well over 1.5 feet per second. Stand back & watch the big dog eat.


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## wquiles (Oct 1, 2010)

Amazing - congratulations


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 1, 2010)

No words, just a


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## jtg (Oct 2, 2010)

Wow!,
I would like to know about the rigger.
I have never seen a18 wheeler so cool.
A cover that moves over the entire bed for eash loading and unloading without unloading the entire truck to get at something in the back.
John


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## precisionworks (Oct 2, 2010)

Those trailers are made by Aero Industries & called Conestoga (named for the covered wagons): http://www.aeroindustries.com/products/conestoga/

The supports are all aluminum, and the tarping causes continual movement of the supports ... what I'd call a welder's dream come true, as they break on a regular basis :nana:


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## jtg (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks Barry,
No wonder we do not see many of them. ACtually I have never seen one of those until here on this site.
I now see why not too many use them though if they break that easy.
It would be great to have the repair contract for those though.
anyway, I am going to ask next time that I need a rigger if that type is avaliable.
John


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 14, 2010)

Is she makin' parts yet? 

More pics please


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## precisionworks (Oct 14, 2010)

I saw a Connestoga-style trailer, made by Benson: http://www.bensonproducts.com/page_about.php

The tractor pulling it was owned by The Mickow Company out of Des Moines. They are primarily a flatbed carrier, but made an exception at least this one time: http://www.tmctrans.com/about


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## crf (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow so nice!


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## Rothrandir (Oct 14, 2010)

Good choice on the Mazak, I wouldn't have anything else.

It's been a while since I ran a T Plus, but let me know if you ever need any help.


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## tino_ale (Oct 15, 2010)

Can't wait to see what you're going to come up with your new tool :thumbsup:


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## jhanko (Oct 16, 2010)

TranquillityBase said:


> Is she makin' parts yet?
> 
> More pics please



Not yet. The coolant tank fianally just arrived Thursday. Right now I'm still learning Mazatrol and have to decide on what coolant to buy. I also have to finish balancing the RPC I built. The biggest problem is that I took on the project of remodeling the bathroon a couple weeks ago. I should be finished with that in a few more days, then I can devote all my time to this. I have more pics showing the massive components inside the cab. I'll shrink and post them soon.



Rothrandir said:


> Good choice on the Mazak, I wouldn't have anything else.
> 
> It's been a while since I ran a T Plus, but let me know if you ever need any help.



Thanks, I may take you up on that. Mazatrol seems pretty easy to learn, but I still get stuck on things once in a while. The programming manual can be confusing at times.


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## precisionworks (Oct 16, 2010)

> I also have to finish balancing the RPC I built.


The Phase Converter-VFD Forum on PM has lots of info on RPC balancing. As you probably know, a RPC can be balanced at only one load point, so try to figure out the most important point at which to balance.

For a NC machine, some users add a voltage stabilizer to their RPC. Phase-A-Matic makes a very nice unit, but someone with a good electronics background might be able to design & build their own: http://www.phase-a-matic.com/PDF/VSPL-2010-C.pdf

I never did balance my RPC, nor did I add power correction caps. BUT, it powers a not-too-picky manual lathe, and the lathe seems to be happy :nana:

If I ever get caught up in the shop (sometime around 2025) the RPC may get tweaked.



> have to decide on what coolant to buy


Your machine is probably well set up to handle flood coolant, and there are dozens of choices in synthetic & semi-synthetic coolants. You may also want to look into an Accu-Lube applicator ... you'll still want flood for certain ops like deep hole drilling, but the Accu-Lube will replace the flood for most ops. Sometimes cheap on eBay, like 10% of new retail (mine was).


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## seitenryu (Oct 21, 2010)

Lots of coolant nozzles. Just run flood all the time. I worked at a shop doing large batches and it's soooo nice having parts come out COLD. I'll try to remember what we used. It was milky blue from what IIRC.


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## precisionworks (Oct 21, 2010)

> Just run flood all the time.


Quite a few shops still do ... but there are potential problems with flood.

Every flood coolant (that I'm aware of) is water based. IF you are religious about maintaining concentration (meaning a daily refractometer check & addition of more concentrate) you machine & tooling _shouldn't_ rust. 

Flood is not a "one time & forget it" process. In addition to daily concentration monitoring, all coolants require some amount of cleaning, filtration, de-watering and decontamination. If the Ph rises or falls too far, the flood requires chemical balancing.

Phooey you say, we'll just fill the sump with fresh flood coolant, run it til it's stinky nasty dirty foul, and dump the contaminated coolant in the sewer, toilet, lake, river, of landfill (your choice). OK if you don't mind polluting the water your grandkids will be drinking, or if your state has lax (or no) EPA enforcement. Or pay a haz-mat hauler to pump it out & properly dispose of the coolant.

Minimum Quantity Lubrication (MQL) avoids these problems. Using the Accu-Lube (or similar) applicator, gives increased tool life (no thermal shocking with carbide tooling), is much cleaner for the operator, usually results in a better surface finish, is non toxic (vegetable oil based) and generates dry chips.

The fact that it saves a shop money is icing on the cake


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## mototraxtech (Oct 21, 2010)

You would probably have a heart attack if you new where I got my dust abatement for the driveway.

On a side not. I THINK a full on flood system that is maintained would give nice parts and make things last longer like tooling. The fact is water displaces heat very quickly where air just cannot. So for VERY fast and quality machining I would think a mass coolant would be necessary.

On a side note from what I have seen everyone not running a CNC machine make a large number of parts quickly could greatly benefit from a Acculube or similar.


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## Rothrandir (Oct 21, 2010)

I use Trim e206 in mine and it works well on everything I cut (plastic, brass, aluminum, stainless, titanium, you name it). If you're going to cut one thing exclusively you might be able to find a coolant that works best for that, but the Trim is a pretty safe bet.

You might be able to get a 5gallon sample bucket for free if you tell them you bought a new machine and want to make sure it works well for you. Some people have allergies to different coolants.
They know that once you try it you'll likely keep buying it, since it's easier to keep adding to what you have than to empty out and start over with another brand, unless you really have to.

Another great thing to do is get a fish bubbler and run it down into your coolant tank. It will help keep the coolant fresh when you're not running it.


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## cmacclel (Oct 22, 2010)

Rothrandir said:


> I use Trim e206 in mine and it works well on everything I cut (plastic, brass, aluminum, stainless, titanium, you name it). If you're going to cut one thing exclusively you might be able to find a coolant that works best for that, but the Trim is a pretty safe bet.
> 
> You might be able to get a 5gallon sample bucket for free if you tell them you bought a new machine and want to make sure it works well for you. Some people have allergies to different coolants.
> They know that once you try it you'll likely keep buying it, since it's easier to keep adding to what you have than to empty out and start over with another brand, unless you really have to.
> ...




I also use trim e206 on everything and it works well but does take the paint off around a chip once it gets under it. Maybe all coolants will do this.

As for a homemade RPC with that lathe I personally think your nutz chancing it. I would'nt even attempt powering it up with anything other than a Phase Perfect. You must have spent plenty on a lathe of that caliber why skimp on the power? I have read many posts of people blowing control boards on your type of machine when the voltage is no balanced properly.

Mac


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## cmacclel (Oct 22, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> Quite a few shops still do ... but there are potential problems with flood.
> 
> Every flood coolant (that I'm aware of) is water based. IF you are religious about maintaining concentration (meaning a daily refractometer check & addition of more concentrate) you machine & tooling _shouldn't_ rust.
> 
> ...




I do not own a refractometer. With the e206 If you mix it up at the heavy end of the recommended mixture it looks like transparent blue water. Mine on the hand is blue but not transparent so I know I have at least double the concentrate needed to prevent rust. It has worked for me. When I see it getting *thick* I just add some more water and it has worked fine for me for the past 2 years.

Mac


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## precisionworks (Oct 22, 2010)

> When I see it getting *thick* I just add some more water and it has worked fine for me for the past 2 years.


I also use flood, both in the Kysor-Johnson band saw & the Wilton cold saw. Like you, as it thickens (which is daily in the winter when the shop heat is running) water is added to maintain some semblance of the original mix ratio. There is usually some light staining or rusting on the vises on both machines, but not enough to worry about.

My lathe is set up for flood, with a large sump below the base, a pump & filter, etc., but the Accu-Lube works better on the lathe. No coolant gets flung on me, on the ceiling or on the floor. With a "closed cabinet" machine like Jeff has, containment is not an issue. 

Here's an interesting quote from one of the hundreds of MQL articles:



> There are two secrets for MQL success. First, fine aerosol droplets must be directed to the cutting edge being abraded by the action of the chip passing over it. Second, the diameter of the droplets or aerosol particulates must be be held within precise tolerances to maintain optimum
> wetting and lubrication of the critical interface between cutting tool and material. It is important to avoid the demixing of the oil and air that can occur at high speeds.
> 
> The amount of fluid used is generally in the region of 10-50 ml per hour. The amount consumed in the machining process is small and while some fluid remains on the work piece and on the chips, the amount is so small that that the chips can be sold as dry, increasing their value at the recycling stage.
> ...



Also, a number of research papers, using actual factory machines, tooling, and materials, show increased tool life (because of reduction in cutting temp), better dimensional accuracy of the parts being run, and a decrease in surface roughness ... this article compares dry, flood, and MQL on a lathe job running AISI-4340 on a typical factory lathe with a 15hp spindle.

http://www.fbe.gazi.edu.tr/dergi/tr/dergi/tam/20(2)/1.pdf

The article is 10 pages but reads easily.


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## jhanko (Oct 25, 2010)

Wow, as if I didn't have enought to think about already... I definitely want to take advantage of the flood cooling, but have to admit I thought it was a fill and forget kind of thing. I planned on running it thick, as I won't tolerate rust. My machine will also live in the 0% humidity winters of Illinois, so I'll have to keep an eye on the mix. The lathe will definitely not run every day, so agitation/airation may also be needed. My tank holds 20 gals. What's a typical mix ratio of Trim E206? Is tap water OK, or is distilled recommended?

Regarding the RPC, I wouldn't consider using one if any components were directly connected to it, but they're not. The entire machine is powered off a true 3 phase, huge (400 lb), built in step-down transformer that supplies the needed 200v for drives and 100v for controls. The RPC will also be balanced within 5% at 1/2 load, so I'm sure I'll be OK.


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## unterhausen (Oct 25, 2010)

if there are discrete drives with ac inputs, they usually are single phase.


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## precisionworks (Oct 25, 2010)

> The RPC will also be balanced within 5% at 1/2 load


One thing unique to all RPC's is that they are balanced *ONLY *at one load point. Figure out where the machine will run most of the time (30%, 65%, 81%, etc.), and balance at that load.

If that isn't good enough, and it may or may not be, look into a voltage stabilizer: http://www.phase-a-matic.com/VoltageStabilizerDescription.htm Some RPC's are called CNC Converters, meaning they already have a voltage comp circuit, normally housed in a separate metal box that's wired to the RPC. 

If utility quality 3ph is desired, there are only two ways to get it. Phone up your local utility, tell them how many amp service you need, go to the bank & get a loan, have it hooked up  Back in 2002, my utility wanted $5k, probably closer to $10k today.

Or purchase a digital phase converter, like Phase Perfect: http://www.americanrotary.com/digital-solid-state-phase-converters.html

Phase Perfect guarantees 1% balance at any load, while your local utility may not be quite that good.


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## cmacclel (Oct 25, 2010)

My machine only runs the motor and VFD from the phase converter the electronics and servo motors require there own 10 amp 110v circuit. I have been using an American Rotary 15hp CNC rated phase converter. It has failed on me twice. The first time a run cap blew and scared the crap out of me the amount of smoke that came out of that 2" Diameter by 3" long oil filled cap was amazing. The 2nd time it failed was due to a stuck contactor. If I had to do it over I would definetly spend the extra money on a phase perfect. In fact If I can find someone to buy mine for $700 I will order a phase perfect.

Mac


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## precisionworks (Oct 25, 2010)

> If I can find someone to buy mine for $700 I will order a phase perfect.


All the CNC shops love their PP digital converters ... have yet to hear one complaint (other than the purchase price).



> The first time a run cap blew ... The 2nd time it failed was due to a stuck contactor.


That's the biggest advantage of a Stone Age (pony start) RPC like mine ... no caps & no contactor. A motor bearing will probably fail after 20-30 years, but that's the only thing that can go bad.


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## 65535 (Oct 25, 2010)

Barry, on your RPC since we are on the subject.

The Phases are 90/135/135 degrees out of phase correct?

Rather than a true 120 degrees between phases


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## precisionworks (Oct 25, 2010)

> The Phases are 90/135/135 degrees out of phase correct?


Nada 

120°-120°-120° when voltages are well balanced. 

I thought as you did, until Jim Rozen posted screen shots from his o-scope ...perfect phase sequencing. Couldn't find the photos tonight, but will post when (if) I find them.


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## HarryN (Oct 27, 2010)

Around here there are large charges for hitting higher kwh tiers, and electricity starts to resemble gold. I have seen people install generators for some high load applications, either diesel or natural gas. Sometimes, they do this even for Christmas lights.


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## jhanko (Oct 29, 2010)

Well, I finally finished the bathroom and got to spend a whole day with my baby... I spent the day inspecting things and making a list of things I'll need to repair/replace/adjust. One of the first things I did was check to see if the transformer was tapped correctly for my needs. I was amazed at what I found. I noticed the line in was wired to A1/B1/C1. Checking the data sheet, this turned out to be the 200v input. I don't know what the 3 phase utility voltage is in Oakland, CA is, but I bet it's a hell of alot more than 200v. All this time it was tapped wrong and doing nothing but isolating, not bucking anything. This makes me think one of two things. This machine is very tolerant to overvoltage or it was blowing drives often and that was the reason the owner decided to sell it. Here's a picture of the transformer after I changed the tap to A3/B3/C3 (230v) and it's data sheet. Good thing I checked this!











I might as well include a few more pics while I'm at it. Here's one of the massive X-axis drive. The Z-axis is identical...






This one is of the spindle/motor and the hydraulic collet/chuck closer...






Here's the hydraulic power pack...






Last but not least, the tool pre-setter...


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## 65535 (Oct 29, 2010)

In socal our 3PH comes in at 208V.


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## precisionworks (Oct 29, 2010)

> I don't know what the 3 phase utility voltage is in Oakland, CA is, but I bet it's a hell of alot more than 200v.


208v is pretty common in North America. 

If your utility supplies 208v, the motor is correctly connected at the 200v setting. The reason is that 208v is the nominal system voltage and the voltage rating for the equipment is 3% to 5% lower than that, to allow for voltage drop between supply & equipment.

If your utility supplies 240v, the correct motor connection is 230v, again to allow for the 3% to 5% voltage drop.

This information is from peterh5322 (an EE on the electrical section of the PM forum):



> 200v would be for Japan.
> 
> 208v would be for the North American 120/208 *Y* three-phase system, with 208 between any two phases.
> 
> ...


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## jhanko (Oct 29, 2010)

Damn, I completely forgot about 208.  Still a good thing I checked it for my needs...


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## precisionworks (Oct 29, 2010)

Jeff,

If your shop has the "typical" 240v 1ph service (like most homes & small businesses in the Lower 48) then the 230v setting is correct. If you measure leg to leg, the reading should be around 240v-250v. Either leg to ground should read 120v-125v. If using a phase converter, all three phase to phase voltage readings should be around 240v, +/- 5%.


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