# Lumapower MVP TurboForce P7 Review - BEAMSHOTS, RUNTIMES, and more!



## selfbuilt (Nov 8, 2008)

_*Reviewer's Note: *This is a review of new Lumapower MVP TurboForce P7. For a comparison to the original 3xCree MVP, please see my detailed review of that light. The MVP P7 was provided by Lumapower for review._

*Warning: Very pic heavy!*






MVP TurboForce P7 on the left, 3xCree on the right

The TurboForce is a new member of the Lumapower MVP family. The original MVP (still available) is a 3xCree Q5 light. This new TurboForce model contains a single SSC P7 (which is actually a single quad-die emitter). Although the two share the same body and overall form factor, the head is considerably different. Here are a quick summary of the features of the TurboForce P7 and the differences between the two models (cobbled from the Lumapower and Battery Junction websites):

*TurboForce P7 Features:*

SSC P7 LED, up to 700 lumens of total output (claimed) 
3 Brightness levels: Hi: ~700L, Medium:~250L, Low: ~50L, Strobe: ~650L 
Wide input voltage from 6.5-10V, supports 2xLi-Ion (RCR123A, 17650, 17670 or 18650) and 4xCR123A (recommended only for low and medium output modes, and up to 4 minutes max on high). 2x18650 is the recommended configuration for the longest runtime.
Over-discharge protection (for 2x Li-Ion batteries) at 4.8V 
"Sidekick" brightness control switch that works independently from the tailcap power switch (tailcap is a forward clicky)
Efficient current-controlled DC-DC power circuit
Anti-Roll body design
AR coated lens 
Dimensions: Length: 264mm, Bezel Diameter: 71mm, Body Diameter: 28mm, Tail cap Diameter: 32mm, Reflector Diameter: 60mm, Weight: 463g(without batteries)
Main Reported Differences between the MVP and MVP TurboForce P7:

The MVP uses 3 individual Cree Q5 LED's, each with its own embedded reflector cone, whereas the TurboForce uses a single SSC P7 emitter and one large reflector.
Reported that overall output is similar, but the 3xCree MVP can throw slightly further while the TurboForce has significantly more spill.
TurboForce SSC P7 is typically somewhat cooler than the 3xCree MVP
TurboForce is slightly longer and has a larger head/bezel (note that the body/battery tubes are interchangeable between the two models)
Estimated street price for either version is ~$200.






Packaging is the same as my MVP 3xCree. Inside the box, the light comes well secured with foam spacers. Included are spare o-rings, manual and warranty card. A removable lanyard attachment ring comes installed by default on the tailcap.











*MVP 3xCree:*
Weight (without batteries): 385g with extender, 329g without extender (237g head only)
Length: 238mm with extender, 170mm without extender
Width: 58mm max (bezel)

*MVP TurboForce P7:*
Weight (without batteries): 459g with extender, 405g without extender (317g head only)
Length: 265mm with extender, 200mm without extender
Width: 71mm max (bezel)

As you can see, the TurboForce is quite a bit taller and heavier. _Note the difference is entirely in the head/bezel - the body/battery tubes are exactly the same size and interchangeable between versions._











Normally, I like to start with a detailed build overview, but I imagine most want to see how the business end of this light differs from the MVP 3xCree. 






As you can see above, the face of the light is much larger on the TurboForce P7. Coupled with the quad-die P7 emitter, I would expect a significant amount of spill for the MVP P7. More on that in a minute - first, here is a comparison of the MVP P7 and 3xCree lights disassembled (P7 first):

MVP TurboForce P7





MVP 3xCree





Again, there is no difference in the body/battery tubes and tailcaps between these two versions. The finish on my TurboForce P7 seems more matte than my glossier 3xCree, but otherwise is indistinguishable (i.e. no changes to the screw threads or any other portion). 

Basically, the difference is that the bezel opening of the head has been enlarged to accommodate the larger reflector for the P7. One thing I've noticed is that there is some "play" in the positioning of the reflector (i.e. it is loose enough that is can become slightly off-centered while tightening the bezel). :shrug: But this doesn't affect the beam pattern in any noticeable way that I can see.

The TurboForce is more substantial in both appearance and actual use thanks to its bigger reflector. I found the MVP 3xCree comfortable enough to carry over-handed (well-balanced and not too heavy), but haven't had a chance to carry this new P7 light canon around as much yet. Although a bit ungainly looking, it doesn't actually feel that much heavier when loaded with 2x18650.

The common build/design of the MVP lights is of very high quality. Screw threads are not anodized unfortunately, so tailcap lockout is not possible. There are also a lot of threads (especially on the tailcap), so you need to do a lot of turning to fully tighten. Lettering and anodizing is very good on my TruboForce P7, although I prefer the glossier look of my MVP 3xCree.

*User Interface*

UI is the same as the MVP 3xCree. The rear forward clicky turns the light on and off, and there's a mechanical side-mounted "Sidekick" switch that moves you through the four light modes (Hi - Med - Lo - 12Hz Disorienting Strobe) in a repeating sequence.

This Sidekick switch works even when the light is off. When the light is on, pressing on the Sidekick switch causes the output to briefly move through Lo before ratcheting on to the next level (it seems Lo is the default state of the light, so the mechanical switch passes through it when changing modes). 

*Beam Pattern*

Here's a comparison of the TurboForce P7 vs the MVP 3xCree on 2x18650 (AW protect 2200mAh, 3.7V) on max. Both lights are at ~0.5 m from a white wall.


















These sorts of up-close white wall shots don't really tell you much for strong output lights, but you can see the Turboforce P7 has a *MUCH* wider spillbeam than the MVP 3xCree. oo: Note the 3xCree spill is only slightly wider than a traditional 1xCree light.

The TurboForce P7 throw is still quite good, although there is a slight "donut" effect due to the quad-die emitter (this is common on P7s). Tint was also cooler on my TurboForce sample, as expected for a P7. 

To better show the difference, here are a pair of outdoor shots from my back yard. The lights are all being shone from a balcony about 13 feet up and 10 feet away from the center hotspot location on the ground. 










Although it looks at first glance like the MVP 3xCree is brighter, this is only because its spill is confined to a much smaller area. The spillbeam of the TurboForce P7 is wider than the camera's field of view. Look at the bricks on the far left of the image - as you can see, the TurboForce illuminates a much wider area. :thumbsup:

This illustrates a limitation of exterior beamshots for lights with bright spill - because of the long exposure times and limited camera field of view, you don't get a good feel for how it really looks. _By eye, the TurboForce P7 seemed brighter overall to me, since it was lighting up my whole yard._  Scroll down to see what my lightbox and ceiling bounce tests say about output.

In terms of throw, the MVP 3xCree throws its centre beam about the same distance as the TurboForce P7 to my eye. I like the P7 battern, as you get a reasonably bright corona around the hotspot. 

*Output, Throw and Runtime Comparisons*

*Testing Method:* All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for the extended run Lo/Min modes which are done without cooling.

Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 1 meter from the lens, using a light meter.

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*






Note: According to both my lightbox and ceiling bounce measures, the MVPs are about twice as twice as bright overall as my best 1xCree Q5 throwers. 

Since lux at 1 meter isn't likely to truly capture the throw of these lights, I've added some additional results for ~10m distance. As mentioned earlier, all P7 lights have a slight donut effect (due to the quad-die emitter design), so I've given my lux readings of the TurboForce as a range from actual beam hotspot centre to the peak brightness found around the edge of the hotspot.

*Output/Runtime Comparison:*










Note that I haven't done CR123A runtimes yet (running low on primaries at the moment ).

*My runtimes show a generally consistent pattern of slightly lower output - with slightly longer runtime - of the TurboForce P7 compared to the MVP 3xCree.* I would recommend you take the actual output values with a big grain of salt, as these bright throwers (especially the large head and wide spill of P7) are likely not getting the most accurate picture in my milk carton lightbox.

Regulation and runtime on both MVP versions is very good, on all batteries. The selection of pre-defined output levels is also very useful IMO - and it's nice to see consistency between the different battery configurations (i.e. relative output is consistent for all battery types). The MVPs are clearly designed to work best with 2x18650, which has the best combination of output, runtime, and body heatsinking.

It's also nice to see the drop-off in output before the protection circuits are triggered in my protected AW cells (RCR/18650) - good to get some advance warning before the light cuts out on you! :thumbsup:

 *Note that LP advises you to run 4xCR123A on Hi for short bursts of time only.* In fact, the MVP manuals clearly state that you void your warranty if you run it for longer than 4 mins at this level. Med and Lo are perfectly safe to run for extended periods of time on 4xCR123A. I haven't done runtimes yet with CR123A on the P7, but check out my original MVP 3xCree review for a comparison.

*Potential Issues*

I haven't come across any specific problems with the TurboForce P7. As noted in my original MVP 3xCree review, the screw threads on the body tubes can be a little rough, and there are a lot of them in each segment requiring a lot of turns to fully tighten. Not a problem per se, but just something to keep in mind. Anodizing on the tailcap threads would also be nice.

The bezel/head of the TurboForce P7 is considerably larger than the 3xCree, which is also something you may want to consider.

UPDATE: There's also no real anti-roll with the TurboForce, since the wider head is smooth. The 3xCree has effective anti-roll thanks to the beveled regions on the head.

*Preliminary Discussion*

I was certainly a fan of the original 3xCree MVP - good design, excellent current-controlled runtime performance, exquisite regulation, and wide versatility in battery configurations. The Turboforce P7 carries on in the same tradition - it is basically the same light with the same performance, just with a different beam configuration and larger head. :twothumbs

It all really boils down to the beam - although the 3xCree doesn't look too pretty on a white wall, in actual use it produces a pleasing well-defined spill beam with good throw. Spill width is only slightly larger than a traditional 1xCree light, but much brighter.

In the contrast, the TurboForce P7 has one of the widest spillbeams I've ever seen. oo: It covers a much wider area with reasonably bright spill - for example, it lights up my whole back yard from my balcony! Beam pattern is nice with good throw, even corona, and smooth and uniform wide spill. Peak throw is roughly equivalent between the P7 and 3xCree models.

If you are looking for a "typical" throw/spill beam pattern - but with twice the output of a regular 1xCree throw light - the 3xCree MVP is probably your pick. But if you are looking for the widest possible spillbeam - while maintaining equivalent throw - the TurboForce P7 is your best bet.

Two other points to keep in mind are that the P7 version has a much larger head, and the beam tint is typically on the cool side compared to the 3xCree MVP. You also get a slight donut effect in the center of the P7 (unavoidable with this quad-die emitter). Of course, you will get some triangulation of the 3xCree beam pattern at close range. Six of one, half dozen of the other? As always, it's your call!


----------



## EngrPaul (Nov 8, 2008)

Fantastic comparision, I've been waiting! :twothumbs

I was afraid I would have to go buy a newer, better, MVP.  Fortuntately, the Turboforce isn't better, only different. 

I'll stick with my 3xCree for outdoor use, I tend to prefer warmer color, greater throw, and less spill (especially when humid for less spillback). Nice to see it has the better output, too. :naughty:

I also like the more compact head of the 3xCree. I'm afraid of dropping the light on my foot as it is now! :green:


----------



## lumapower (Nov 8, 2008)

Hi Eric,

Thank you very much for your great job again.

Best regards,

Ricky and Lumapower team


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 8, 2008)

EngrPaul said:


> I was afraid I would have to go buy a newer, better, MVP.  Fortuntately, the Turboforce isn't better, only different.


Hole in one. I don't know why I write detailed reviews, when I could just get you to summarize it so succinctly! :laughing:

Personally, I also prefer the smaller size of the 3xCree. But I do get a kick out of lighting up my entire back yard with the Turboforce P7 in one shot! And no worries with the beam profile - the massive OP reflector gives you a beautiful smooth profile.


----------



## KeukaLite (Nov 8, 2008)

Absloutely fantastic review selfbuilt! I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the TurboForce until I had read more about it. Your review gives me all the information I need to make my decision. Thank you very much for the time and effort it took to attain and publish these results!!:twothumbs


----------



## Kabible (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks Eric. Your reviews always set THE standard. 

It would be interesting to do a shootout between the Turboforce P7 and the Minglight/Epsilon ED P72.


----------



## EngrPaul (Nov 9, 2008)

Is the section with flats big enough to work as anti-roll? It's hard to tell from the pictures. TIA


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 9, 2008)

EngrPaul said:


> Is the section with flats big enough to work as anti-roll? It's hard to tell from the pictures. TIA


Good question - there is basically no anti-roll on the TurboForce (except for the lanyard ring). The 3xCree has effective anti-roll from the beveled grooves in the head.

I'll add that point to the review ...


----------



## DM51 (Nov 9, 2008)

An excellent comparison review which will be very useful for people making a choice between these 2 lights. Moving to the Reviews section.


----------



## Lite_me (Nov 9, 2008)

First of all, thank you for all your great reviews! I've been waiting for this comparison since you first announced it. 

I have a question about your balcony beamshots. Do you have them labeled wrong? They look reversed to me. :thinking:


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 9, 2008)

Lite_me said:


> I have a question about your balcony beamshots. Do you have them labeled wrong? They look reversed to me. :thinking:


No, they are correct - you can see the beveled head of the smaller 3xCree in the second pic.

The key point is the 3xCree has a smaller spillbeam (edge seen on the bricks on the left), whereas the P7 spill is wider than the field of view of the camera at that range (i.e. lights everything you can see and more).


----------



## Lite_me (Nov 9, 2008)

Got it. It was my monitor settings.  I had it set too dark. I couldn't even see the spill on the P7. I see what you're talkin' bout' now! My bad.


----------



## chee (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks for another great review. I've been thinking about getting a P7 light for quite some time but was a bit wary of all the stuff sold on DX and Kaidomain and was waiting for a quality light.
One question - how does the light feel in the hand? Does it feel balanced, what with the big head and all?

Thanks again.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 9, 2008)

Thank You very much for the review!

While I just can not see myself buying a ~$200 light, I do know what a job it is to do such a detailed review!

:bow: to selfbuilt


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 9, 2008)

chee said:


> One question - how does the light feel in the hand? Does it feel balanced, what with the big head and all?


Hmmm, well, it's not as unbalanced as I would have expected for its size - it doesn't feel that much heavier than the 3xCree (with both fully loaded with batteries). That being said, I think I still prefer the overall form factor of the 3xCree version.


----------



## Sharpy_swe (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks for a great review :twothumbs


----------



## Flash007 (Nov 12, 2008)

Do you have measured :

- the current pulled from the 2x 18650 batteries
- the current delivered to the LED.
- the efficiency of the driver 

Because I want to compare with the Epsilon ED-P72 I have received today.
:thanks: :bow:


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 12, 2008)

Flash007 said:


> Do you have measured :
> 
> - the current pulled from the 2x 18650 batteries
> - the current delivered to the LED.
> - the efficiency of the driver


No to #1, because I know from experience that both of my DMM's introduce too much resistance, which invalidates battery current draw measures.

No to #2, since that would involve desoldering one of the emitter leads (and I still don't trust my DMM's not to cause problems).

As for #3, I have no way of directly measuring that. But at the end of the day, I think actual output/runtime comparison data between lights is of greatest use to most.


----------



## mdocod (Nov 12, 2008)

Great review, thank you!

Looks like one of the tighter beam profiles available on a P7 unit. Not bad at all.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 12, 2008)

Looking some more at this I think I'd rather have the 3 cree.

I still don't figure on buying a ~$200 light though....


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 13, 2008)

mdocod said:


> Looks like one of the tighter beam profiles available on a P7 unit. Not bad at all.


Yup, it's a beautiful beam. The quad-die donut effect is still there, but not as bad as I would have expected. And sill can't get over the spillbeam width.



PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Looking some more at this I think I'd rather have the 3 cree.


Can't for say for certain yet myself, but I probably would too (if not for the lower weight, then the warmer tint for outdoor use).


----------



## Alin10123 (Dec 1, 2008)

The P7 has the wider spill. But which one has the brighter spill? For example the P7 may light up a much wider area, but as far as the area the spill lights up, the 3x cree looks like it has a much brighter spill to me. Like a much more even transition from hotspot to sidespill. Is that true? Or is it just the pics?


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 1, 2008)

Alin10123 said:


> The P7 has the wider spill. But which one has the brighter spill? For example the P7 may light up a much wider area, but as far as the area the spill lights up, the 3x cree looks like it has a much brighter spill to me. Like a much more even transition from hotspot to sidespill. Is that true? Or is it just the pics?


Yes, the pics are accurate - the 3xCree has a much brighter spill, but the spill area is a lot a less. The P7 is a more typical single-emitter profile of hotspot to spill, albeit with spill over a wider wider area due to the wide reflector.

A good way to think of it is that the lights are putting about the same amount of overall output - the P7 is just distributing it over a wider area, whereas the 3xCree is concentrating it in a narrower one.


----------



## Axion (Dec 2, 2008)

Excellent review as usual. I really like the lux readings at 10m and I hope you make that a regular part of your review.


----------



## toby_pra (Dec 2, 2008)

Very nice review! As alsways...:naughty:


----------



## brianjon (Dec 27, 2008)

Just received my Lumapower MVP and found out it was defective right out of the box. Maybe a bad on/off switch. Anybody else have problems with this?


----------



## applevision (Apr 4, 2009)

Outstanding review, thank you!

Also: very nice "preview" for the upcoming comparison of the EagleTac M2 series:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/227764

It will be neat to see if the same relationships hold up!


----------



## redliner (Dec 12, 2009)

Selfbuilt, great review and much thanks. I like this MVP TurboForce P7 but its big. Do you know of anything that comes close to this in the spill department thats under 8 inches in length and has a head under 2 inches? Thanks.


----------



## jaypoppa (Oct 9, 2010)

I bought the light based on your review and I must concur that you are dead on about the power that it produces, however, after having this light for a short 1 1/2 years, it has finally been put to rest. It is just not a durable as it appears. Granted I've put it through some hell, but it shouldn't fail after the 3rd time Ive dropped it on the street. The battery directly under the light have been replace 3 times and the optical lens have shattered 2 times. I had to order a replacement direct from LUMA which ships from China. (there customer service was pretty good) All in all when this light worked it was the "greatest light ever" but it just can put up with heavy abuse and needs a lot of TLC.


----------



## selfbuilt (Oct 10, 2010)

jaypoppa said:


> I bought the light based on your review and I must concur that you are dead on about the power that it produces, however, after having this light for a short 1 1/2 years, it has finally been put to rest. It is just not a durable as it appears. Granted I've put it through some hell, but it shouldn't fail after the 3rd time Ive dropped it on the street. The battery directly under the light have been replace 3 times and the optical lens have shattered 2 times. I had to order a replacement direct from LUMA which ships from China. (there customer service was pretty good) All in all when this light worked it was the "greatest light ever" but it just can put up with heavy abuse and needs a lot of TLC.


Great story, thanks for sharing. Oh, and :welcome:

Most of us here don't stay with one light long enough to subject it to that kind of use/abuse. But I suspect most of the competition wouldn't fare much better. In some ways, I think we are victims of the rapid release cycle of lights - innovation trumps long-term reliability. This is where warranty support comes in - glad to hear their CS met your needs.


----------

