# Your opinions on these Buck, Benchmade, and Spyderco folders



## jsr (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm looking to pick up a decent folder, not something really pricey, but with as good blade and mfr'ing quality as I can afford. My limit is about $60, but if none of these are very good, I'd consider the pricier ones. I'd appreciate your opinions on the following knives I found from Buck, Benchmade, and Spyderco and help answer my questions:

Buck
Adrenaline BK and SPX
420HC blade - is this similar to 440C? Which is better? Which holds it's edge better?
$50 and $60 (for black).
Mantis
440C blade - is 420HC better?
The handle looks slippery, but is it?
$34, more inline with what I was looking to spend.

Benchmade
Red Class Mini-Ambush
AUS-8 blade - a friend of mine said he's not very fond of AUS-8 (and similar -6 and -10) steel blades as they tend to dull quickly. I've also read AUS-8 is not the greatest for corrosion resistance.
Uses a rolling lock blade lock instead of linerlock - how do the 2 locking mechanisms compare?
$50 and $55 (for black).
Snody
N690 blade which I've read is similar to 440C. Better than AUS-8 I'd assume?
$60. Doesn't look quite as nice as the Mini-Ambush black, but is the blade steel much better?

Spyderco - these Byrd line look a bit weird, but they are low priced.
Byrd Crow
8Cr13MoV blade - seems to be proprietary to Spyderco (don't find it anywhere else). Similar to 440C? Which is better, 440C or the 8Cr13MoV?
Handle looks a bit strange (feathers) and it looks wide when closed.
$28, cheap tho! How's the smoothness in opening and closing?
Byrd Meadowlark
8Cr13MoV blade. Handle looks very slippery. Looks wide when closed.
$28.

Below are the pricier Spydercos, Benchmades, and Bucks . A bit pricey for me, but I have some questions on their features:

Spyderco Centofante 4
VG-10 blade - is this similar/close to S30V? Is it proprietary to Spyderco?
A bit too awkward looking and wide when closed. $70.

Spyderco Delica 4
VG-10 blade. Looks wide when closed. I like this better than the Centofante tho...but still looks quite weird. $68.

Benchmade Mini-Stryker
154CM blade - read it's the predecessor to the ATS-34 steel. Is it as good as ATS-34? How does 154CM compare to VG-10, 420HC, and 440C?
$110 and $120 (black). Pricey for me, but the black looks nice.

Benchmade Mini-Griptilion
154CM blade. $90 and $102 (black or ODG). Same questions as above.

Buck Adrenaline Ti
ATS-34 blade - how does ATS-34 compare to VG-10, 420HC, and 440C?
$112.

Thanks.
JSR


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## powernoodle (Feb 17, 2006)

I would go with the Delica, but thats just personal preference. It is Spyderco's best seller, and for a good reason.

They can be had for $42.43 plus shipping here. I don't have the new version 4 flavor, but the prior flavor is very thin. It is still available at the same website in the Spyderco section.

Be like Powernoodle. Carry a Delica. :laughing: 

Edited to add: as for the steels, they are all durable and hold an edge. I can't tell any difference, but I use mine for mundane tasks and have never had to field dress an elephant with one.

best regards


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## ghostrider (Feb 17, 2006)

Hello jsr,

While I don’t have a lot of experience with Benchmade, I do have some with Spyderco and Buck. 



I’ll cover Buck first. My experience with Buck is the 110 Folding Hunter. Mine has the 420HC, and I can’t complain about it. Even though it’s 420 series, I managed to clean and butcher 2.5 deer before it stopped shaving hair off my arm. I do believe in using quality blade steels, but I’m also of the opinion that there are other variables (blade and edge geometry, heat treat, tempering) that also determine the performance of a specific blade. 



I do own and use several Spyderco and byrd knives. The byrd knives have very good steel in “8 etc.”. It is “similar in its properties to AUS-8” however; some people might even say it performs better. They get this steel very hard at 60-61 HRC, and believe me; you’ll know it’s hard if you have to re-bevel the edge. Nevertheless, it takes a mean sharp edge, and is very good at holding it. Often times all it takes to bring the edge back is a little stropping on cardboard. The byrd quality is very good, but especially so for a Chinese made knife. All the mid locks I’ve had required a break in period, and my liner lock was smooth out of the box. Spyderco’s VG-10 is my favorite steel (I’ve never used their S30V, so can’t comment on that). It is a dream at taking an edge, and holds it longer than other steels I’ve used. There’s a lot of people that swear by S30V, but I can’t imagine getting much better than VG-10. Great edge retention and not hard to sharpen. You expressed a concern about the width of Spyderco’s and byrd’s. Don’t let the appearances fool you. The ones you mention, I carry tip-up, and they practically disappear in my pocket. Yeah, they look wide, but once you put them in your pocket, you’ll be surprised at how little space they take up. I carry a lot of stuff in my pockets, so I can’t have a knife that gets in the way when I’m trying to dig something out of them. My Spyderco’s and byrd’s have never presented a problem in that area. Something to note is that the handle of the Raven/Crow series is thicker than the others in the line. Thick handles can add some bulkiness to a knife’s pocket ride, but the tradeoff is that they offer much more comfort in use through prevention of hand fatigue. 



byrd Crow

I don’t own a Crow, but do own the Raven, which is simply a larger version of the Crow. I think it’s a great knife. It has smooth action, great ergonomics, and lots of good features. I’ll list a couple reviews done on it as well as one done on the Crow. Pay close attention to the one done by Pete. He’s a professional fisherman, and tested his Raven on the lobster boat. 




http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17497

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=raven



Here’s the Crow review:



http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17456&highlight=crow



I’d recommend any of the byrds. They are excellent quality knives for the price. The Crow can be had for $25 shipped if you live INCONUS, and it looks to be a very nice “little-big” knife.



Spyderco Centofante 4



I’ve been a fan of the Cento 3, so I naturally like the 4. The thin blade makes them excellent slicers, and I really like the wharncliffe blade style. The SS liner gives it a little heft, but not too much. And like most tip-up Sydie’s, it isn’t intrusive in the pocket. VG-10 blade a plus. I think it’s a classy looking gentleman’s knife of sleek design.



Spyderco Delica 4



Again, I don’t have this one, but do own the previous model. Great little knife. It has good ergos and disappears well in the pocket. Again, don’t let the “wide” appearance of the knife when closed fool you. They ride well when tip-up. Don’t know about tip-down since the first thing I do when I get a knife is make sure the clip is positioned for tip-up. 



BTW: Your prices listed appear to be MSRP. You’ll find them to be much cheaper on line either ebay, or some of the reputable dealers.


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## thesurefire (Feb 17, 2006)

Just a comment on steels. I wouldnt buy a knife with anything less then 440c, and I'd only take that if it was really cheap. Aus8, VG-10, and 154CM are all roughly the same, and S30V is the 'standard' High end steel. I've been edcing a spydie native with S30V, and just cant go back. 

ATS-34 is about equal to VG-10 edge retention and slightly better then 420HC and 440C

N690 is simalar to 440C, but with better corrosion resistance (IIRC) AUS-8 should hold a edge better.

Just remember steels all have there pros and cons. 440C losses a edge quickly but is easy to sharpen. S30V may hold an edge for 10 times as long, but may take 20 times as long to sharpen.

If your going to use your knife for low stress tasts like cutting an apple or opening mail you should be fine with about anything, just learn to sharpen it. If your going to be cutting tree branchs with it, slicing up cardboard, and other more stressful tasks, get a better steel that holds an edge. 

In the order of edge retention the steels you listed should be something like:
420, 440, N690, (these next 3 are close) VG10, AUS-8, 154CM, ATS34, S30V, S90V (S90V is very expensive and usally only found in customs)

My list of great vaule knifes is:

spydie native - $45 at walmart (only some yours may not stock them)
Benchmade Mini-Griptilion
spydie Delica
gerber AR 3.00 (should be able to get em for around 15-20 $ on clearance)
Benchmade mini pika


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## parnass (Feb 17, 2006)

thesurefire said:


> .. and S30V is the 'standard' High end steel. I've been edcing a spydie native with S30V, and just cant go back.
> ...



I often EDC a *Spyderco Native*, too, and like it a lot. Bought it for about $40 at a Super Walmart. It's made in USA which is what I prefer.


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## Josey (Feb 17, 2006)

I'd go with the Delica or the new Endura 4, both in VG10, which is the best of the steels you're looking at. You can get both of these Spydercos for $45 or so. S30V is as good as VG10 and maybe better, but some of these companies have not yet mastered that steel and sporatic problems have been reported. So at this point VG10 is really the best.


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## thesurefire (Feb 17, 2006)

I think many people are surprised at how well spydercos stuff performs because they get to caught up in how ugly it is  Once you get past that its pratical all the way.



Josey said:


> some of these companies have not yet mastered that steel and sporatic problems have been reported



I have heard of of problems with S30V chipping, and lots of problems with S90V chipping, however even if it was an issue it would be covered by the warrenty if it was from benchmade or spyderco.


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## chmsam (Feb 17, 2006)

Only my two cents worth but after more than 40 years of carrying, using, and maintaining pocket knives I offer these ideas to consider:

- consider what you want to use the knife on and what you want to cut. That will determine blade style, steel, and carry options.

- consider how you'll sharpen the knife or what you'll need to sharpen a harder steel (i.e.: will you need to upgrade to a diamond sharpener?).

- remember, you get what you pay for. A good knife may well last you a lifetime, could possibly save your life, and you'll have to live with your choice for a long time.

One of my favorite knife vendors used to say (and wisely), "Buy the best you can afford." 

I love my Spyderco's and my Benchmades, and the Buck knives with better steels are interesting, too. I personally find steels like 420 or 440A don't hold an edge long enough for me, but YMMV. For the average user 440C, 154CM, CPM154, S30V, ATS-34, and VG-10 are all fine steels. Most people wouldn't know them from one another in daily use, and for some the steel choice is only about one of fad or fashion, and not about a need for a working steel. 

Any steel requires some degree of care and if you take care of your knives, you'll find no reason to worry about corrosion. A little oil or protectant will be needed for any blade. A few minutes of care once in a while goes a long way toward keeping any knife in good shape for a very,very long time.


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## kbog (Feb 18, 2006)

You may also wish to consider lock types. I have some Benchmades and some Spydercos. I find that I carry Spyderco more. I did not think that I would like to carry a lockback after carrying AXIS locks, but I like them quite a lot. You do lose some speed when opening and closing though...


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## Monolith (Feb 18, 2006)

Personal recommendations:

Mini-Griptillion 556 ~$55 - Light weight easy to carry

Benchmite 310 ~$80 - small, unique locking mechanism


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## guyg (Feb 18, 2006)

I own knives in each of your described classes. you have done your homework and ANY of those knives will take care of you. My advise is to get past the steel, learn to sharpen and concentrate on feel and comfort.(PS any steel will chip if abused. S30V is not more prone to this than any other steel.)


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## beautifully-stupid (Feb 18, 2006)

What great selection. 

it looks almost identical to mine just a few months ago. I was looking for a good working knife with a strong lock and useful blade. 

I ended up with a spyderco Endura, which fits my hands perfect, but had the list narrowed down to the Mantis, Delica, Endura, and Mini Ambush. 

I was looking at locks and stayed away from liners.

The Mantis did feel a bit slippery. 

The Mini Ambush Locked up really nicely, and felt great in the hands. I almost bought this one, but decided the handle was a little too thick for me. I opted for a SE Endura, but may still make the Mini Ambush part of the rotation.

The delica/endura, just felt right. But I've always been biased towards thumb holes.... I used to work on the water, and never had time to fidget with thumb studs, or axis-style locks.

Speed is not the issue for me... more ... security in the Hand. I've literally thrown smaller knives ACROSS the room while trying to open Axis Style locks. 

guyg makes a good point... Don't worry about the steel choice, If you get tired of sharpening, you can just give me the knife.

I don't resharpen in the field... I don't plan on being tom hanks in "castaway", I just want a knife that will cut when I really need it.

Bottom line... try them all, put them in your pocket (separately), Take it out, and buy the one that feels the best. When you're done... Make sure to tell us which spyderco you went with.


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## VWTim (Feb 18, 2006)

I'm going to throw another recommendation to the BM Griptilians. I have 3 full size now, one standard 440c combo edge, a D2, and a Ritter in S30V. The solidness of the Axis lock is something I really like. I don't think you can go wrong with one. also good deals are to be found on Ebay.


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## billgr (Feb 19, 2006)

spyderco delica 4. plain edge.


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## ginaz (Feb 20, 2006)

another vote for the griptilian. honestly, people love to talk about this steel and that steel but the differences between them are not readily apparent in normal day to day use. will you be cutting cardboard all day? slicing yards of carpet? dressing multiple deer? scuba diving? perhaps then we should talk about various steels but if you will be opening a box or two, trimming threads, slicing a vegetable or a fruit, sharpening a pencil etc etc then steel type is low on your list. go to a cutlery store and handle them and get the one that "feels" best to you. lord knows it won't be your last knife. and woe be the man that starts frequenting bladeforums.com... but i NEED i new knife! and now i NEED an edge pro to keep them as sharp as possible! of course i NEED a sharpmaker for touch-ups... i don't have a blade in D2 yet... ha ha ha all the way to the loony bin! of course the orderlies at the loony bin carry griptillians! i gotta stop now...


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## John N (Feb 20, 2006)

In the higher price range ($107), I found I *really* like the Doug Ritter version of the Benchmade Mini-Grip - the Mini-RSK .

It has the same handle as the Mini-Grip, but a much more useful blade geometry (IMO) in S30V steel. It is flat ground and has dual thumb studs.

The Axis lock is very addictive. Very slick. This is a VERY ambi-frendly knife and a very friendly one-handed knife.

Oh, and you can get it in yellow if you want to be a bit more funky. He also has his version of the "full sized" Grip if you want a bit more knife, but I find the Mini-RSK about perfect for EDC.

Also, for a very limited time, the RSK and Mini-RSK are being offered in M2 "high speed tool steel", similar to that which is used to make drill bits. Keep in mind M2 will rust, so if you are looking at this, you need to make sure you are willing to take care of the blade. Doug has said that this run is going to be very small (170 pcs, ea size) and it is a pre-order with ETA of March.

-john


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## daloosh (Feb 20, 2006)

The Delica and Endura are perennial standouts for workhorse knives, but the Benchmade MiniGrip and Griptilian are awesome. The Axis lock is my favorite, and the fit and finish are very nice. And look to the RSKs for a little bit more. Finally, they come in nice colors, my wife EDCs a purple one!
daloosh


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## GarageBoy (Feb 20, 2006)

Out of your list, i vote the centofante. Nice solid feeling, VG10 out right rocks (takes an edge that bites) good price great slicer

Don't bother with the Ambush and get the Griptillian instead if you're considering that.

The tanto on the Mini Stryker is less versitile and I think they discontinued the 154CM mini, leaving you with the D2 full size (my favorite steel, well one of) and if I was considering that I'd pick the 710D2 over it. 

And Bucks 420HC is unlike anyother because they actually care about their chemistry and treating. (don't confuse it with 420J2, which is too damn soft to be a blade)

and do your shopping here @ www.newgraham.com Mike and Mary Beth are among the best in the business with great prices


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## GarageBoy (Feb 20, 2006)

BTW:newgrahams site should be back up in a day or two


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## Cones (Feb 20, 2006)

Hi,

Knives are one of my other weaknesses next to torches. 

I would recommend the Benchmade Mini or Full-size Doug Ritter Griptillian.

Excellent value for the money. Fantastic S30V Steel and the Axis lock.


I’ve got loads of pictures and a few reviews of my other knives here :-

http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/ Just look under Knives and Stuff.

I also think my Benchmade 773 Osborne makes for a fantastic small EDC knife. Perfect for letter / box opening and sharpening the odd pencil with.

HTH 

Mark

Pic replaced.


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## jsr (Feb 20, 2006)

Thanks everyone for all the great info and recommendations. I read up more on this thread in bladeforums:

http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828

Lots of good info there also. I think I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

Benchmade Mini-Ambush 10210SB
Spyderco Delica4 (what's the diff between ComboEdge and SpyderEdge?)
Spyderco Native FRN (3.125" blade...legal length in Cali is 3"...will I get in trouble?)
Mini-Griptilian 556SBK or 557SBK (I prefer the tanto blade tho). BTW, why does newgraham's site say 440C blade while BM's site says 154CM?

I'll likely still take a look at the BM Mantis and Spyderco Crow also just to see if those will suit my needs and tastes, plus they're considerably lower priced than the others. Thanks for everyone's help and feedback. I'll hopefully be visiting some knife/cutlery stores this coming weekend.
J.


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## cbxer55 (Feb 20, 2006)

Up until 2002, when I moved from California to Oklahoma, there was no length requirement for folders. Cold Steels plant is in Ventura, and they make the 6 inch Vaquero Grande folder there. So whoever tod you it is 3 inch is full of --it. I got stopped once in 2001 while carrying a Vaquero Grande. The cops eyes got a little big, but that was it, gave it back to me. Did not write a ticket either.


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## jsr (Feb 20, 2006)

Hmm, I'll check with my friend again on the blade length. He's a knife enthusiast as well and he told me the legal length is 3". That's why my selection has all been <3".


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## dano (Feb 20, 2006)

With the exception of automatic knives, there's no folder length limit in Calif.

Spyderco: combo-edge=1/2serrated.
Spyderedge=100%serrated blade.

--dan


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## guyg (Feb 20, 2006)

The 3'' is a good choice for blade length. It will do most cutting just fine. Right now in my pocket is a Bark River Mikro fixed blade with about a 1 3/4 '' blade.


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## John N (Feb 20, 2006)

> Mini-Griptilian 556SBK or 557SBK (I prefer the tanto blade tho). BTW, why does newgraham's site say 440C blade while BM's site says 154CM?



I think Benchmade is just switching some of their models over to 154CM. Both are probably still in the channel. I just picked up a full sized Grip at a local mall-knife place and it was 154CM. I would confirm with the vendor if you have a preference.

Of course, the Ritter RSKs are all S30V (with the exception of the limited edition M2 version) and only available at aeromedix.com.

-john


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## Mike Painter (Feb 20, 2006)

dano said:


> With the exception of automatic knives, there's no folder length limit in Calif.
> 
> 
> --dan



California has a lot of law in nooks and crannies and you have to be careful about whre you have the knife.
"blade longer than 21/2 inches," is illegal on school grounds and there are any number of places where a blade longer than 4 inches is illegal...
California Code is a good place to find things.


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## glock_nor_cal (Feb 21, 2006)

Spyderco: VERY Sharp, Cheap, Outstanding quality for the price, but don't expect them to last more then a few years. (Tips are thin, Serrations impossible to sharpen) Customer service is great.
Benchmade: Too expensive. Taking your knife apart voids warranty. Customer service sucks. Axis lock is far and away the best lock I've used.
Buck: I can only comment on the Buck Strider (all other buck's i've seen and handled have been junk). The Buck Strider is an absolute tank, you will feel like youre carrying a folding chisel--but It wont fail on you. Strider will cover customer service for it, free sharpening, maintanence, etc. as long as you own it. These guys have some of the best customer service I've encountered. 

If you want a cheapie, deffinately a Spyderco--buy a new zytel one every year.
If you want quality, get a strider or chris reeve or emerson.


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## guyg (Feb 21, 2006)

To sharpen serrations the best way is with a Sharpmaker or Lansky serrated sharpener. I've not seen Edgero, but I'd say they probably have a setup also. The serrations are sharpened on an edge of the shapening rod. Using the same motion as when sharpening the rest of the blade.
Spyderco shows 2 different methods for this and both work.
Benchmade.."customer service sucks" I'm suprised to hear that. I know they are sluggish when taking care of their dealers, but I'd heard they were good with their customers.Sorry. 
Another word DONT take apart your knife!! Most mfg's including Buck and Spyderco dont warranty if the knives are taken apart.


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## daloosh (Feb 21, 2006)

jsr said:


> Spyderco Delica4 (what's the diff between ComboEdge and SpyderEdge?)
> J.


Spyderco's come in plain edge (no serrations), comboedge (front part plain and back serrated) and full serrations (often called Spyderedge). However, Spyderedge refers to their particular pattern of serrations, seen both in comboedges and fully serrated blades. That's the alternating pattern of two small serrations followed by one bigger one.

Won't go wrong with a Spydie, but I predict it will leave you yearning for more, so why don't you move up to Benchmade, or skip it, and go right to a small sebenza (my favorite small EDC)!

daloosh


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## leukos (Feb 21, 2006)

I'll vote for BM too, mini-grip or if want a little larger, the 710.


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## GarageBoy (Feb 21, 2006)

The 773 is discontinued, NGK should still have a few. And please, do your self a favor and get full plain edge. If you want serrations, double up with a fully serrated one


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## woodfluter (Feb 22, 2006)

glock_nor_cal said:


> Spyderco: VERY Sharp, Cheap, Outstanding quality for the price, but don't expect them to last more then a few years. (Tips are thin, Serrations impossible to sharpen)


 
The latest version of the Delica (v.4) has a flat-ground bevel, not hollow-ground, and that is considerably stronger IMO. Also the tip is thicker. So I think they may have addressed some of your concerns.

As for very sharp, I am impressed with the angle of the edge - it was about right when I received it, which is very unusual. But no factory-made knife comes to you very sharp - or at least not sharpened so it will stay sharp!

I am not a fan of serrations. If I had to be prepared to cut rope under tension very quickly in an emergency, I would certainly get a fully serrated blade and keep it handy. Or better yet nippers! Otherwise, they are useless to me - I do too much fine work with a knife for that, and touch up the edge one or two times a week usually. If you get the plain edge, I don't think you will have to replace it, ever, unless you abuse it beyond reason. I recently got the v.4 Delica and so far am very impressed. The VG-10 steel, which I haven't used before, sharpens very much like 12C27, an underrated Sandvik cutlery steel and the favorite of all Scandanavian knifemakers. But seems to hold an edge better. This might become a favorite.

- Bill


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## daloosh (Feb 22, 2006)

Speaking of the Delica, both the Delica and the Endura v4, are comiing out in waved versions in April, I think. That's a licensed Emerson Wave. Maybe not as pretty as an Emerson, but lightning fast opening in a very nice knife.
daloosh


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## Steve C (Feb 23, 2006)

glock_nor_cal said:


> Spyderco: VERY Sharp, Cheap, Outstanding quality for the price, but don't expect them to last more then a few years. (Tips are thin, Serrations impossible to sharpen)



Well, the Endura that is my EDC and is 15 years old would probably take offense at some of those statements.

The Spyderco SharpMaker keeps the fully-serrated blade razor-like; as long as I remember to touch up the edge every week or so. Yes, Spyderco tips do tend to be thin, but then I don't use my EDC knife as a pry-bar, either. If I have that need and no time to secure a more suitable tool, the tip of the blade will be the least of my concerns. 

BTW, I have had two Emersons; REAL Emersons, not BM clones. Expensive (you're always worried about losing a $300+ pocket knife), difficult to keep sharp unless the edge is re-beveled (that is a personal flaw; a sharpening wizard won't have any trouble), and that thumb disk simply isn't anywhere near as efficient as the round thumbhole, IMO.

I actually do prefer a liner lock, but an el cheapo Spyderco lock-back is as good an EDC tool as you could ask for. When I bought this Endura in 1991, I expected to throw it away in a year or so. But it just keeps on trucking, long after those Emersons have been sold/traded.

I also have a Military, one of two I bought when that knife first came out. One was used as a SWAT knife, back when I was doing that gig. That one was passed on to a young warrior when heart surgery side-lined me. The other, bought as an EDC, is still NIB in a drawer in my closet. It was simply too big for my tastes as an EDC blade.

I expect that this old Endura, especially now that I'm in plainclothes and live a rather sedentary life-style, will survive to be passed on to #1 grandson. I've looked at the new Enduras, and they seem to have every bit of the inherent quality of my old warhorse.

One simply cannot go wrong with a Spyderco...

.


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## glock_nor_cal (Feb 23, 2006)

I guess I'm hard on my stuff. I've broken 3 spydercos and not from using them like a chizel/screwdriver.


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## picard (Feb 24, 2006)

I would choose Benchmade ministryker because the 154CM steel is easy to sharpen, low maintainance. The other benchmade is made of AUS8 steel which is lower quality steel. It doesn't hold edge well. 

I woudl avoid all buck knife completely because it is dedicated for general hunting. Buck knife construction material and workmanship aren't as good as benchmade. It is difficult to explain in words. You have to look at several high end buck knife and compare to Bench made. You will see the difference clearly.

Spyderco makes good emergency seatbelt cutter knifes. However, for survival purpose, Spyderco handle and blade don't even come close to Benchmade. Spyderco inventory sell quickly because they have cool colors for knife handles which appeal to the youth boyscout types. Spyderco isn't used for heavy duty survival situation. 
The millitary use Benchmade folding knifes. They are super tough despite dull color of handle material.


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## Hans (Feb 24, 2006)

picard said:


> However, for survival purpose, Spyderco handle and blade don't even come close to Benchmade. Spyderco inventory sell quickly because they have cool colors for knife handles which appeal to the youth boyscout types. Spyderco isn't used for heavy duty survival situation.



You've never handled a Spyderco Military or a Manix, have you? The Manix in particular is one of the toughest folders out there, and I'd take it over a Benchmade with an axis lock in a survival situation anytime. Lockbacks are a heck of a lot easier to clean than an axis lock when there's a lot of fine sand around. 

Hans


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## Moe (Feb 24, 2006)

I would try to grab at least some of the knives to see if you like the handeling. If heat-treated properly you won't notice any difference in using 440C, ATS34, 154CM (which is almost the same), VG10, D2 a.s.o.
Some of them might be slightly (!) harder to sharpen than the other.
What i am trying to say: stay away from really cheap steels, try to fumble the knive before you buy it, don't make your decision too dependent from which steel the blade is made of. That's only 10% of the performance of a knife.


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## Steve C (Feb 24, 2006)

Hans said:


> You've never handled a Spyderco Military or a Manix, have you?
> Hans



Exactly. The Military is one tough folder. Mine spent several years riding clipped to the thigh strap of a leg magazine pouch (holding CAR-15 mags) for instant access. It got banged, dropped, slammed, dropped, passed around, dropped... you get the picture. Those G-10 scales are very durable; they are nicked and gouged, but the knife stays sound. The young operator I gave it to is still using it, carrying it just like I did, and keeping it serviceable with the Sharpmaker 203 I also gave him.

He told me that 203 got one hell of a work-out during the Katrina unpleasantness, when they were camped out down there for over a month. It touched up all sorts of blades, from SAKs to a couple of K-Bars... 

picard, the thread originator is looking for a decent, reasonably-priced folding knife. He didn't say anything about going into the wilderness and living off the land.


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## jsr (Feb 24, 2006)

Actually, I'm the thread starter. Thanks for all the info everyone's provided. I still haven't had a chance to swing by a cutlery/knife store to take a look at any of these yet. Hopefully will be able to this weekend.


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## Cones (Feb 24, 2006)

I have now taken a few pics of my Ritter Mini Grip. 

More here under knives and stuff :- http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/

HTH

Mark


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## John N (Feb 24, 2006)

Nice going Mark, you've made my wait for my M2 versions of the RSK and Mini-RSK even harder!

Sesh. No justice.



-john


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## IonFire (Feb 25, 2006)

Myself, I EDC , 

1.Benchmade 710 (154cm, D2 stays on shelf)
This recurve does wonders on media like cardboard or the like, really outstanding. This can also be exchanged for my Benchmade 707 for when i am going out somewhere nice.

2.Benchmade 705 (154cm)
Little brother to the 710, which started the new lines.

3.This EDC position gets changed daily, it may have a Kabar/Dozier or a Carson/CRKT M21-02, sometimes a Kershaw/Scallion in red, depends on the mood, it is usually is my loaner spot, i dont hand my BM's over to noobs.

Last notes on the BM's, i really love Benchmades, and it shows in my stash, these are the knives i EDC, i have some more, that dont see carry duty, thier queens. Only thing i needed service on was new clip screws, they had them out to me the next day, screws, 2 clips and without so much as a hiccup, thier Forums are the same thing, there is hardly a spoken word from anyone about bad CSV, this is very rare, as it is quite stellar.

Last thought, Only Benchmade i would never suggest to another or ever purchase again, is the Min-Ambush with the Rolling lock with Indraft. I am not knocking the Red-class line ,just the mechanism involved here, of course, YMMV.
It bit me twice, due to the slightly different opening of it versus the AXIS lock versions of the rest of the lines, some have noted less then stellar lock-up with it, but i can not add on that, only the opening, it the blade, wants to jump out, then slow rapidly. This is when your thumbs catches up and meets the media multiplying edge.

Bucks, well thier classics, i dont have the need to pack that much weight around from say a 110 model, too much weight and mass, great shelf knife hehe.

Spydie's, great knives too like Benchmades, some exotic steels used on limited runs, but they, Sorry Sal, the head of the empire listens very closely to his customers on Bladeforums and is quite active there, a real stand up guy.
So, great steels, cutting edge ideas, and really different looking knives. 
I have several of thiers and they hold thier own easily to higher priced knives, just you have to come to terms with the looks as compared to other knives, these girls are truly diffrent ducks in the pond.


Actually, i have had dealings with all of them online, all had Excellent customer service.
This includes..
benchmade
Kershaw
Spyderco
Buck
CRKT

JMTC

Peace out

IF


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## Kingfisher (Feb 25, 2006)

g_n_c

Benchmade’s Customer Service is excellent; they do a great job. I sent my 2-year-old Mini Grip back with a broken omega spring. It came back with 2 new springs, new handles, washers, and clip, and the blade had been sharpened to a quite scary level. I originally bought the knife in the U.S. so I could not return it to a UK dealer. The insured postage (1way) cost me around £7 – well worth it for a new Mini Grip. The free sharpening service they offer is worth consideration for US customers.









I’ve heard one or two complaints about having to wait around 4 weeks to get a knife back, but this was around the start of the hunting season; which can be expected. 



jsr

There is no folding Red Class Benchmade Snody for $60. You may mean the Monochrome in N690, which I can recommend (it’s a tank) - a tough, solid, slightly heavy, slightly ugly knife. Out of your choices though, I’d get a blue class axis- lock Mini Grip.


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## woodfluter (Feb 27, 2006)

If heat-treated properly you won't notice any difference in using 440C said:


> Good observations - the heat treatment given by the maker is much more important than the composition. However, from the perspecitve of someone who actually uses a variety of knives (on wood, mostly) a good deal, you will probably notice a difference. It really does boil down to (1) what you will be using it for and (2) how fussy you are about an edge. I am very fussy, so I like knives that can retain an edge for a reasonable period but also respond to a few passes on a strop to bring it back to optimal. And I don't use them for really abusive purposes - I have others for that!
> 
> For most makers, the 440C will take an edge very well and hold it for a reasonable time. I have some 440A and AUS-6 blades that I am happy with, but I just know I will have to resharpen them frequently and that will be a very easy task. I really like 12C27 because it strikes a good balance. I have 154CM and ATS-34 and 52-100 blades that are harder to resharpen, but if I know I won't get around to that often enough or am going to put them to very hard use, that is a good choice. I haven't had my Spyderco VG-10 long enough to say anything definitive except that it sharpens much like the 12C27 and if it holds an edge at all longer, it will probably become a favorite.
> 
> Really it all depends on what you use it for and your personal predelicitions. If you want to put things in perspective, recall that very fine woodcarving work was done in previous centuries by skilled and inspired people with crude steels, so it really comes down to convenience rather than possibilities.


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## ghostrider (Feb 27, 2006)

woodfluter said:


> Good observations - the heat treatment given by the maker is much more important than the composition. However, from the perspecitve of someone who actually uses a variety of knives (on wood, mostly) a good deal, you will probably notice a difference. It really does boil down to (1) what you will be using it for and (2) how fussy you are about an edge. I am very fussy, so I like knives that can retain an edge for a reasonable period but also respond to a few passes on a strop to bring it back to optimal. And I don't use them for really abusive purposes - I have others for that!
> 
> For most makers, the 440C will take an edge very well and hold it for a reasonable time. I have some 440A and AUS-6 blades that I am happy with, but I just know I will have to resharpen them frequently and that will be a very easy task. I really like 12C27 because it strikes a good balance. I have 154CM and ATS-34 and 52-100 blades that are harder to resharpen, but if I know I won't get around to that often enough or am going to put them to very hard use, that is a good choice. I haven't had my Spyderco VG-10 long enough to say anything definitive except that it sharpens much like the 12C27 and if it holds an edge at all longer, it will probably become a favorite.
> 
> Really it all depends on what you use it for and your personal predelicitions. If you want to put things in perspective, recall that very fine woodcarving work was done in previous centuries by skilled and inspired people with crude steels, so it really comes down to convenience rather than possibilities.


I agree with just about everything (some of those steels I have no experience with). There's more to edge abilitite than the steel type. My Boker/Magnum Subcom Folder is pretty good at holding an edge yet only has 420J2. Other's have reported similar experiences.


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## jsr (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks again to everyone for providing so much info!
I finally got a chance to take a look (and feel) at some of the knives this weekend. Went to a cutlery store in the mall. They sold Surefires also so I checked out the E1L, E2E, and Z2. They're a lot smaller than I thought...skinnier than the lights that are based off the SF designs.
At the store, I handled the following:
Buck Mantis
Spyderco Byrd Crow
Spyderco Native
Spyderco Delica4
Benchmade Mini-Griptilian
I handled a few other knives, some from Kershaw with the assisted opening.
Here's what I thought about each (sorry about laymens or incorrect terms, this is my first time looking into knives):

Buck Mantis - Much smaller than I thought. It's the skinniest (least thickness) of all the knives. A bit tough to open 1-handed, hard to get leverage on the opening point of the blade (needed to start it off 2-handed, then could open it with my thumb). The linerlock is integrated with the outside body, so that's how they saved a lot of thickness. Handle was ok, not as slippery as I thought, but since it's Al, still slicker than the plastic handles. Not bad considering I can get one for $21 online (forgot how much it was at the store). One thing I found out was that I don't like the disengagement of the linerlocks. It was somewhat difficult for me to press the linerlock out of the way to close the blade. I had to pull up on the blade to press the linerlock more easily, but still not the smoothest action.

Spyderco Crow - Damn it's about 2x the thickness of the Buck Mantis! It's a chunky knife! Opening action was smooth and I could do it easily 1-handed. Handle felt pretty good and grippy. The blade does look quite weird still. It has the standard linerlock and again, I didn't like the extra effort, additional force and work, and lack of smoothness required to disengage the linerlock to close the blade. Similar in operation to the Buck Mantis, but easier to open 1-handed. A good deal for $18 online ($27 at the store), but a bit too thick for me with all the other stuff in my pockets. Tho it's easier to open than the Mantis, I'm leaning toward the Mantis for a low-priced knife due to the much smaller form factor.

Spyderco Native - Smooth opening and a solid, quite loud click when locked. The blade is pretty chunky and overall the knife is larger/chunkier than the Delica 4. If the handle is held w/ the index finger on the plastic, the pinky is off and not touching anything which feels weird. The back part of the blade is indented for a finger, so if the index finger is put in the blade indent, the full hand grips the knife, but the roughness of the edges where the index finger grips isn't comfortable and I could see it getting more uncomfortable if I'm gripping tightly for more force, etc. Closing was smooth tho. I like the closing action with the simple pressing at the middle/back of the handle much better than the pressing of the liner on the Crow.

Spyderco Delica 4 - Same smooth opening and solid click as the Native. Blade has that awkward bird shape common in most Spydercos, but is smaller, less chunky looking than the Native. The handle is slightly longer and smaller (not as high) and fits in my hand better w/o needing to place my index finger on the back of the blade (not made for that anyway) for proper grip. Much more comfortable to hold than the Native and felt less chunky in my hand. Closing was the same smooth action as the Native.

Benchmade Mini-Griptilian - Played with both the tanto and drop-point blade versions. The drop-point one had the 154CM blade w/ ODG handle, while the tanto had the older 440C w/ black handle. It's much sleeker, smaller looking and feeling than the Spyderco folders. It felt nice in my hand, comfortable, good grip. The Axis lock is amazing. It was super smooth to open with my thumb and locked solid. There is a click, but not nearly as loud as the Spyderco's click when it locks. Closing was just as smooth...really really nice. The Spydercos were smooth in opening and closing, but the Mini-Grip was just a bit better and I found myself opening and closing it constantly.

I wanted to check out the Benchmade Mini-Ambush also, but they didn't have that in stock. I wanted to see how the locking mechanism felt since it's different from the others.

Tho I really like the Mini-Grip, the Delica4 is almost $20 cheaper online. Since I'm just looking for a good entry-level folder to carry for security and use whenever I need to cut things, I don't know if I can justify the additional cost for the Mini-Grip (tho I do like it). I've narrowed my choices down to the Mini-Grip if I'm willing to spend to cash, the Delica4 if I'm not willing to spend as much, or the Mantis if I just feel like being cheap.
Thanks again for everyone's help and great info. I have to find another to play with the knives again as I already went to that one store twice and didn't buy anything...hehe.


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