Anyone else completely against lights with built in batteries?

[MyUsernameTX]

Like the OLIGHT ArkPro, it looks great! But as soon as that battery dies, you're toast!

You also have to wait for a recharge and can't just swap the cell

18650 and 21700 lights should be around nearly forever

 

[AMD64Brunette]

I know.

I love my Nitecore NU25 MCT and NU27 MCT headlights,but they have built-in batteries.

 

[jtr1962]

As long as the battery is easily user replaceable I don't mind. I have a bunch of bike lights with a pair of either 18650 or 21700 cells. Just a little soldering and removing some screws if they stop taking a charge. No big deal.

That said I would prefer that anything with built-in batteries uses LiFePO4. I'll gladly trade the lower energy density for thousands of cycles of life.

 

[ChipDale]

I have many flashlights, but none of them has built-in battery. I avoid from buying flashlight with built-in or proprietary battery.

 

[iacchus]

I don't buy 'em, and have no use for them.

 

[dc38]

that warranty better be increasing inversely proportional to the replacability of batteries...because if users are not allowed to replace the batteries in things they OWN, wouldn't that essentially be a license and NOT ownership? (everything is licensed for use these days, btw...

 

[ghostguy6]

Against my better judgment I bit the bullet and bought an Olight Arkpro just to see what all the hype was about. Honestly I wish I could return it. The best features are the high output UV and the laser pointer. The beam patterns on the flashlights suck. The design of the flashlight means one side of the beam will always be flat while the rest is round. Even the laser pointer often has a flat line through it caused by dust on the lense. The throw and the ergonomics are not that great. The depth on the clip on the holster does not fit any of my belts well. I hate the magnetic charging system. Metal objects are always getting stuck to the back of the light. And the battery is non replaceable.

I will not buy any light that uses a proprietry battery or one that is not easily replaceable. I actually would prefer a light that can take both rechargables and primary cells. To me a light is a tool and it is useless when you cant use it because the battery is dead. At least if you can quickly replace the battery it is still useable. My prefered format would be 18650 / 2 cR123 compatable for anything that would critically require a light.

 

[RWT1405]

Friends, do NOT let friends, purchase Olights!

Sorry, I had to start there

As to non-replaceable (or proprietary) batteries, I am NOT a fan

 

[PaladinNO]

Yeah, reason why I don't own any Olights, and don't ever will. Proprietary cells are one thing (looking at you, Nitecore "I"-cells), but so long as they are user replaceble, I can accept it. Proprietary AND non-user replaceable? That is a hard no.

But while I don't like them, and prefer other options, I can see the upside of built-in cells though. They are typically smaller, lighter and have longer runtime when eveything is built as a single device. Thinking primarily keychain lights here. I have wanted to replace my Nitecore Tip's with something AA-sized, but the Tip does everything I want it to, with surprisingly good runtimes.

Downside is, of course, when the battery no longer holds a charge, it's waste, regardless of the state of the buttons, the rest of the electronics and the body.
And I don't like charging something with an uncontrollable current, into what is at that point, by design, a hand grenade. USB-charging is also inherently another point of failure, plus increased risk of debris and water ingress causing damage.

Reason why I like my Nitecore UMS4 charger so much. That thing takes every cell I have put in it (don't like how it handles AAA / AA though), and seems pretty much idiot-proof. Which is how I prefer my battery charging, because once something goes wrong with a cell, it happens FAST and unpredictable.

 

[dc38]

Friends, do NOT let friends, purchase Olights!

Sorry, I had to start there

As to non-replaceable (or proprietary) batteries, I am NOT a fan

It's hard to beat something like the Imini2, though, lol...There's very little on the market that even comes close.

 

[ironhorse]

I do not buy lights that the batteries cannot be replaced or ones that take a non standard battery.

 

[alpg88]

Pretty much all of my scratch build lights have a non replicable battery, but they are regular 18650 or 21700, that I can replace whenever they fail. I usually put enough batteries to last 4-5 hours, which is what I usually need during camping, and I bring enough lights to last me entire trip without a need to charge any.

 

[Robocop]

I also try to stay away from anything with built in non replaceable batteries. I also do not like a light that has a usb charging port on the body of the light and most lights with a sealed battery have this feature built in. I really do not know when people became so lazy that removing a battery to charge it was just too much. From a pure reliability and long term usage standpoint lights that can be serviced in the field will last much longer. Also on board charging for sealed units adds complexity and failure points.

I will always much more prefer a single cell twist activated light with a common replaceable battery.

 

[HarryN]

For me, the trick is that we standardized on AA batteries for the household. We always have AAs charged up and ready to go. Also keep energizer Li AAs around for lights that need to work no matter what the temperature conditions are.

I do keep a few AAA s around but not a lot. The just don't store enough power to be interesting.

I hand out headlamps to the family as gifts including the grand kids, and they are already used to charging phones from USB, so it is easy for them to keep them charged up. They are not expensive ones so lights are lost more often than they wear out anyway.

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www.rei.com

or even the little cheap energizers sold at target and similar.
____________

In a worst case situation, I can directly charge things via USB using just a 100 - 150 watt solar panel and one of these USB charge ports attached. No chargers, batteries or solar charge controller needed.

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www.bluesea.com

 

[PaladinNO]

For me, the trick is that we standardized on AA batteries for the household. We always have AAs charged up and ready to go.

Been there, done that, before I swapped to 21700 options.

I found AA batteries not lasting long enough when the power is out for hours. And they didn't produce enough light to my liking. And their formfactor making them hard to tail stand or otherwise get the light where I wanted it.

21700 lights and lanterns solved all my problems in that regard. For one, a lot more options at a not too higher price. Then there's the increased runtime, output, and (to me) better formfactor options. I used to have Fenix AA lights spread around the house, but now I have Convoy S21E's, and they have already proved better than the AA solution (and the Convoy 3X21-series is excellent in this regard).

Having a solar backup is interesting, and is something I am looking into. But having such a system on the scale I would like is expensive! Though I am looking at sufficient solar power for running a fridge and freezer (and preferably more) simultaneously. So the battery pack would have to be big. And on that note, back to proprietary battery solutions - not sure how much I trust a LiFePO4 battery (EcoFlow), which is what I am looking at. But that is a discussion for another place.

 

[WarriorOfLight]

For me personally it is not only lights. It is basically everything with build in battery. I can remember the times when the user was able to replace the smartphone battery without going to a repair shop.

The named company Olight in this thread is in my opinion an very extreme example. They demand a lot money for their lights (in my opinion too much). A lot lights in their lineup need special batteries or have built in batteries. Beside this at least in Germany the service is crap.

Most lights I own can be used with normal cells that can be replaced by the user. I still own very old lights that I still use. With build in battery this lights would be junk because the build in battery would be not usable anymore.

In my opinion this build in battery idea is more to force the people buying new stuff at some point. In (almost) all cases is should be possible to make a solution with a user replaceable battery....

 

[TPA]

I won't buy lights with non-replaceable batteries. I'm fine if it uses an 18650, 21700, etc., BUT, I want to be able to swap it, preferably without soldering. It doesn't take that much extra effort to design a light which can do this as countless lights have proven over the years.

Been there, done that, before I swapped to 21700 options.

I found AA batteries not lasting long enough when the power is out for hours. And they didn't produce enough light to my liking.

AAs don't last long when the power goes out?
Lumintop Tool AA 2.0 gives 2.5 days on low, 12.5 hrs medium, 2.5 hours high, on a single AA. That's why my Mutt version of if (Tool AA 2.0 + EDC15 body) earned its place on my keychain. The EDC15's emitter is even better, giving 80H/16H/2.5H, but I'm willing to give up battery life for the buttery goodness of a Nichia.

These cheap power failure lights (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZZNVKKV) give 250 hours of runtime on 3xAA batteries, with a warm white emitter. Even in hurricane country, 250 hours will get you through everything but the worst storms.

21700 lights and lanterns solved all my problems in that regard.

BLF LT1 Mini was my first 21700 battery light, and I have to say I'm convinced. The extra bulk/weight of these over 18650 lights is well worth it to me. The Wurkkos CL01 lanterns run for weeks with nightly use on their 21700s.

Having a solar backup is interesting, and is something I am looking into. But having such a system on the scale I would like is expensive! Though I am looking at sufficient solar power for running a fridge and freezer (and preferably more) simultaneously. So the battery pack would have to be big. And on that note, back to proprietary battery solutions - not sure how much I trust a LiFePO4 battery (EcoFlow),

Solar's great. I've had some form of solar system running for 30+ years now. Never as the primary, rather as a means to recharge batteries and get power in a major grid-down situation. It has its place. As long as there's been solar panels, the problem has always been batteries. No way around that. I see a ton of people online flocking to EcoFlow and similar and I can't see it. Lithium batteries degrade rapidly over time, even if not used, especially if left fully charged which is exactly where you want them for backup power. Lead-acid batteries can be nasty to deal with. In contrast, I have a 21 year old Honda EU2000 generator. Totally neglected. I think the oil has been changed maybe 8 times? Still starts on the first pull. Still on the original spark plug. I always say I'm going to spend a weekend and give it some TLC, but that never happens. I can guarantee you won't find an EcoFlow unit running 20 years from now. Nor be able to find parts for one.

 

[PaladinNO]

AAs don't last long when the power goes out?
Lumintop Tool AA 2.0 gives 2.5 days on low, 12.5 hrs medium, 2.5 hours high, on a single AA. That's why my Mutt version of if (Tool AA 2.0 + EDC15 body) earned its place on my keychain. The EDC15's emitter is even better, giving 80H/16H/2.5H, but I'm willing to give up battery life for the buttery goodness of a Nichia.

The Tool AA Ti is the one I do want to try as my keychain light replacement (currently have a Nitecore Tip SS). But no, I don't find an AA light to be a reliable light source when the power goes out. I will say it does depend on the usecase, and for navigation it's certainly plenty, but I'm referring to constant room illumination.

Following the specifications on paper, the Tool AA says 4 hours on Medium (~150 Lumen). The 3X21E does the same on Low for 75 hours. And it does it with a, to me, much better beam pattern.

I currently have 3x 3X21E (all with 60° TIR, and considering a 4th) , 1x 3X21A (with diffuser, and I will buy another Soon™), 1x Sofirn BLF LT1, and 1x Fenix TK75 and TK76, both with 3 extenders for 12x 18650 cells. And currently also a Sofirn Q8 Plus, but I am considering selling it for said another 3X21E.

I needed the big ones back in October, which is why I have since bought more. And when "everything" takes the same 21700 cells (I swear by Molicel P50B everywhere), it's just what I want. And I prefer overkill (see "minimum usable illumination"-thread - less is fine for 90 % of the cases, but I like having more Lumen available if needed).

And when I have at least 3 smaller lights on each floor, all 21700, just to find, turn on and suitably place the big ones, a single AA light doesn't do anything for me. I'm not saying single AA lights are bad, I'm saying I don't want them as a backup I would rely on.

We all have our preferences.

 

[TPA]

Following the specifications on paper, the Tool AA says 4 hours on Medium (~150 Lumen). The 3X21E does the same on Low for 75 hours. And it does it with a, to me, much better beam pattern

I'm using the AA 2.0, with NiMH batteries. 14500 does give much more output, but at substantially reduced runtimes, like the 4H you mentioned. The 3X21E would be a bit awkward hanging from my keychain.

I needed the big ones back in October, which is why I have since bought more. And when "everything" takes the same 21700 cells (I swear by Molicel P50B everywhere), it's just what I want. And I prefer overkill (see "minimum usable illumination"-thread - less is fine for 90 % of the cases, but I like having more Lumen available if needed).

I also like overkill during power outages, but I'm not going to carry a 3x 21700 light in my pocket everywhere I go. If size is no object, then just get an EcoFlow unit and plug a table lamp or 4,000 lumen shop lamp into it.

 

[PaladinNO]

I'm using the AA 2.0, with NiMH batteries. The 3X21E would be a bit awkward hanging from my keychain.

I also like overkill during power outages, but I'm not going to carry a 3x 21700 light in my pocket everywhere I go.

Yeah, the 3X21 is...a bit too big to carry gingerly, shall we say. Even with the handle. Excellent portable work lights though, considering most other options are lacking in the CRI-department, or for extended outages. But I have tried bringing a 3X21E on one of my late-night walks, and I rather enjoyed the heft of it. Made it into a mini-workout, carrying it for 90+ minutes.

If we're talking EDC-lights, then I carry an Emisar D4K and Acebeam E75 (yes, both of them at the same time). Plus a Nitecore Tip on the keychain.
I have tried to EDC an AAA / AA-light as well, but I found them lacking in output. I needed / wanted 1000 Lumen, minimum.

And while I saw the AA Tool giving 900 Lumen, I believe it was off-hand, I just know it wouldn't last me a day. And if it did, then certainly not a week. Back to personal preference, and having tried the smaller lights, I don't want to trust a light I can't reliably use as I need it through a week.

21700 lights works great for me though, both in size, power and runtime. Except on the keychain, of course, but there I only need it for navigation.
Needs and wants and usecases are of course individual.