Knife Sharpening

[Lobo]

What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

I bought a cheap Two Stage Smith's sharpener from Lighthound among some other things.
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1704
I really havent been that much in to sharpening before, got me some diamond sharpeners, but they we're next to useless on my knifes (mostly mora, opinel, leatherman tools, and victorinox). But this little cheap sharpener has made my knifes razorsharp, almost all of them! I was wondering if there we're any catch with this one and that I should buy a more expencive system. Maybe it grinds down the knifes too fast? I maybe shouldnt use it with kitchen cutlery (allthough it has worked fine with the ones I have)? I'm definetely no expert on sharpening, neither are my friends and family, but everybody I have showed this to are REALLY impressed. Allthough I guess most people (including me) doesnt really take care of their cutlery, getting a 100USD Global and then not take care of it is all too common.

 

[MoonRise]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Well, it's not really razor sharp. Real razor sharp is a whole level or four of 'sharp' past what that type of sharpener can do on a good day.

Drawbacks to that type of sharpener:

Fixed angle of blade edge, rods have all their wear from sharpening concentrated on one point, fixed grit of rods, the rods can't get all the way into the bolster/choil area of the blade to sharpen there, it is kind of easy to round over the tip of the blade when using that type of sharpener.

If the angle of the rods matches the existing edge angle of the blade, it will work relatively quickly. If the existing blade edge angle does not match the angle of the rods, then you are "reprofiling" the blade and it will take longer to do that than 3-4 strokes. Maybe 300 strokes. Or more.

It's better than nothing, but not as good as some other sharpeners.

 

[Lobo]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Well, I can easily shave armhair with my Leatherman Wave, Victorinox Hunter, Benchmade Mini-Pika and Byrd Cara Cara after using it on them, maybe not razor sharp literally, but it's sharp enough for me.

I know nothing about blade angles, would you say that they differ a lot between knives? Does a certain type of knife have a certain angle?
And would you have a suggestion for a good sharpening system that is not too expensive?
Cheers!

 

[mikehill]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Spyderco Sharpmaker
Mike.

 

[cutlerylover]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

I second mikhills post, the sharpmaker is all you will ever need fro all your sharpenign needs...and if you think that smiths sharpener made your knives sharp your in for a real treat if you get the spyderco sharpener! Different angles have different advantages...the more acute the angle (less of and angle) the sharper the blade will get but as you moves to smaller and smaller angles the edge retention becomes less and less, for the most part...for example if you ahve a really fine edge it will cut like crazy but after the 1st few cuts its dull already, and with a really thin cutting edge the chances of your cutting edge possible chipping or breaking are better...so the compramise of heavy duty cuttign and sharpness has been pretty much agreed on upon lots of knife companies and most factory edges will be about 40 degrees total, meaning 20 degree shapeneing on each side of the blade...

Getting into sharpeneing is not that comp;icated but at 1st it sounds very complicated with all the angles, and different steels and so on...but after a google search and about 2 or 3 hours of reading you will become a pro!

As far as your smiths sharpener goes its great for people who do not know what they are doing when it comes to sharpening, the fixed angle and ease of use is a major plus for beginners...if you really get into it and want your knives much sharper you will just need some basic info which can be found on any knife forum...

but for most non knife nuts who happen to own and use knives, your sharpener will get your knives as sharp as you wil need them for the most part...but once you get them sharper you will never want to go back..its like getting a brighter flashlight, more lumens that impress you makes your old lights seem weak...So once you go down that road you will not want to turn back, lol...

 

[mikehill]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

It also comes with a DVD to explain various knife profiles, angles etc ... Will also sharpen scissors, fishing hooks etc ... Brilliant piece of kit
Mike.

 

[dw51]

Re: Knife Shapening for dummys...HELP!

I don't want to hijack the thread, but which is preferred-Lansky or Sharpmaster? I've narrowed my search to those two.

 

[fnmag]

Re: Knife Shapening for dummys...HELP!

This is a great thread for me. I've always considered knife sharpening to be somewhat of a "black art". I've never got the hang of it probably due to so many different opinions. I've bought all kinds of high quality Arkansas stones, ceramics, many different DMT diamond hones, plus many books. I still haven't got a clue. So after reading the previous threads, it seems like this Spyderco Sharpmaker is the way to go. I have a lot of questions but I'll ask this one, hypothetical, if you knowlegable people had a $1000 custom knife( or even more expensive) would you trust the Sharpmaker to sharpen the knife or would you use some other, more expensive, sharpening system? Cheers.

 

[KC2IXE]

Re: Knife Shapening for dummys...HELP!

...snip... if you knowlegable people had a $2500 custom knife( or even more expensive) would you trust the Sharpmaker to sharpen the knife or would you use some other, more expensive, sharpening system? Cheers.

Depends on the blade shape of the knife - it's OK for touchups - but unless used carefully, the sharpmaker will round the pint of the blade

Haven't used it on a $2500 custom - but on $800 customs...

 

[bjn70]

Re: Knife Shapening for dummys...HELP!

I use a sharpmaker but I haven't mastered it yet. (BTW, mine didn't come with a video.)

I bought a coarse DMT stone for reprofiling. I put a couple of 2x4's together to make a stand, and cut a notch in them to hold the DMT stone upright at an angle. I cut the notch carefully so that the angle of the DMT stone was about 2 degrees steeper than the sharpmaker rods, that way I can use the DMT stone in the same manner you use the Sharpmaker, and it achieves the correct angle automatically. Then switch to the Sharpmaker for a 2-angle edge.

 

[Lobo]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Thanks Cutlerylover and Mikehill. I contemplated buying the sharpmaker before, but didnt. Even more tempted now, a good sharpener is really a good investment.

 

[cutlerylover]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Yeah, Mikehill is right, mine came with a great video (dvd) showing how to use it to sharpen not only knives, but scissors, axe's, shop tools, even nail clippers...So there are alot of different applications for the sharpenign system...and you also get a nice booklet with instructions in case thats easier for you than watchign the video...I even got a quick history lesson from Sal in the video about knives and sharpening methods...he goes into detail about angles too...Very helpfull! Plus the ceramic rods it uses are very strong, in fact not only does it file any kind of steel but it will even file other sharpenign stones too he shows this in the video...plus the system makes sharpening serrated knives very easy as well which can be a real pain in the butt otherwise...

Sorry for the sales pitch, I do not work for spyderco, lol, I just love my spyderco sharpmaker!!!!!!!!

 

[StevieRay]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Spyderco Sharpmaker
Mike.

Anyone know of a good place to purchase one of these?

 

[Ken 222]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

Anyone know of a good place to purchase one of these?

Save some money here:

http://newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=3595

 

[scubasteve1942]

Re: What's the catch with this sharpener?Why should I get a better?

+1 on the sharpmaker.

 

[js]

Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

OK. I bought the SM204 and received it yesterday.

Here are my first impressions:

I love how compact the SM is. Very convenient and portable! It appears to be pretty high quality and well designed. It's a very ingenius setup I think.

I also liked the instruction booklet and video. As such things go, these seemed pretty good.

So, I read the booklet and watched most of the video (skipped over some tools I won't ever sharpen on the 204) and grabbed one of my chef's knives and proceeded to try to cut a back bevel of 30 degrees on it.

HOLY COW! I realized very quickly that I made a mistake in not buying the diamond hones. I was thinking I could get by without them. Either that or cut the back bevel / re-profile using a belt sander or free hand on my waterstone or maybe buy the EdgePro as well. But given that the extra $60 isn't much of an issue for me (as long as my wife doesn't find out) I just went ahead and ordered them. Have to pay shipping twice now, but oh well.

Anyway, the point is (as has been mentioned already in this thread) that if you have to remove a lot of metal, using the standard SM204 medium grit rods is painful, painful, painful! I spent the better part of an hour last night on that knife and still didn't close the edge everywhere. And I had to clean the rods twice to remove the buildup of metal.

So, what I'm saying is that if you want to re-profile with the 204, the diamond hones are a must.

But why reprofile with the 204?

Well, at the moment, my thoughts on the matter are like this: the 204 is so wonderfully portable and convenient that I really like the idea of more or less keeping that convenience and portability and yet adding the ability to fairly easily re-profile knives. I'm thinking of my parents and parent-in-law's knives when I go to visit, among other things. I like the idea of being able to just add two more hones to the setup and be good to go. In fact, for kitchen knives I don't think I would use the fine hones anyway, so I could always put the medium ones in their slots, and the diamond ones in the slots where the medium ones go.

Anyway, I will have a more in depth report in a month or so, with pictures and a more informed assessment of the 204.

What I can definitely tell you is that I'm very sure that this sharpener is going to be ideal for weekly (or even daily) touchups of my knives. It more than meets my requirements of convenience and portability! I think that at $50 it's a flat out bargain, and would probably complement an EdgePro nicely.

Of course, all of this has been mentioned before! Just adding my 2 cents.

 

[Pax et Lux]

Re: Knife Shapening for dummys...HELP!

I have the Lansky. It was as I expected, for what I paid.

I have had good results, considering I'm still learning. I personally think it's better to start off small, learning about the theory behind sharpening and the characteristics of different steels - at least, that's where the enjoyment is for me.

I have a few minor complaints about the system:

1. I thought that it would come with more instructions: using the rig and the theory behind sharpening. There were pages of colour photos trying to sell me Lansky products, but just a few lines about using the actual system. Luckily, I had already seen the best tutorial on using the Lansky:
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/knives1c.htm

This is from the Steve "Sharpening Made Easy" Bottorff website (the home page is http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm).

2. The course stone is quite mild for working on blunt knives. I'd recommend getting an extra-course stone in the hope of speeding things along, and maybe the clamp to hold it to a workbench.

 

[fnmag]

Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

Thankyou for your first impression post. It is helpful reading. You mention that you've ordered the extra Sharpmaker diamond hones, I assume, for your chef's/kitchen knives. Do you think you'd still have ordered the diamond hones if you only used the Sharpmaker for your hunting/carry/EDC knives?

 

[paulr]

Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

I found the Apex to be somewhat of a PITA, the course stones get sludge all over the place and the fine ones are very slow operating. But it sure makes getting a consistent bevel angle trivial. I think they have some diamond hones for it now and that probably helps a lot. I haven't used mine in ages and I guess I'll put it on BST if I can find it.

 

[js]

Re: Please help: Spyderco Sharpmaker or EdgePro Apex?

fnmag,

No. I wouldn't use the diamond hones on my Sebbie! Or any other personal knife.

My kitchen knives are all Henkels four star knives, and I got them a long time ago--before I knew what I know know about good knives. I have been sharpening them by hand on a Japanese water stone, 800 or 1000 grit IIRC, or with a course DMT paddle. I have been putting a 22.5 degree edge on them (45 degree included).

However, before that, I was periodically sending them out to a "professional" knife sharpening service done through my favorite kitchen/chef's store. And that SOB was using a grinding wheel and taking off a LOT of metal--and screwing up the angles from time to time. When I figured that out, I was pissed, and never did that again, and laboriously re-ground the bevel by hand and with my 22.5 degree angle guide. It's a small plastic wedge that I put on the bench stone to set my starting angle. Then I keep it there by eye and feel. Slow, non-fun process.

Anyway, point is that the edge was considerable. A lot of area there at the 22.5 angle. So, reprofiling to a 15/20 compound bevel means taking of way more steel from the shoulders than is easy to do with the SM medium hones. I could put sand paper around the hones and do it that way. Or with a bench sander. Or any number of other ways, I'm sure. But I figured, what the heck, I want the diamond hones. Makes the 204 that much more versatile. And it will make re-profiling my larger chef knife SOOOOO much easier than my smaller one.

Unfortunately, I am now lusting after some Japanese kitchen knives. If I could just prevent my wife or any guest from using them . . . (ha!) I still remember the first time a walked in to see my sister-in-law sticking my chefs knife (that I had *just* sharpened the week before) POINT DOWN into the metal silverware holder cage on the dish drainer. I didn't say anything, but was none too happy. And when I pulled it out and looked at it, sure enough, there was a considerable ding in my nice freshly sharpened edge.

So, I can just imagine what that would be like with a $800 Hattori KD! Someone on www.knifeforums.com brought his 240 mm KD to work (he's a chef) and left it at his station, then came back to find one of his co-workers using it to punch a hole in an olive oil can. (no joke). The women who did it is still alive and well, thanks to this persons very enlightened outlook on material possessions. LOL!

paulr,

Hmmmm. I'm mildly interested in your EdgePro if you do sell it. Shoot me a PM when/if you put it on B/S/T.