NiteCore D10 & EX10 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, COMPARISONS & more!

[selfbuilt]

Just updated the main post with the Hi mode alkaline runtime test on a second D10 sample:

Click your browser reload if you don't see the trace for the second D10.

As you can see, runtime on this sample was back into the expected range. All part of the Vf lottery I guess - at least it doesn't seem to be an issue for performance on rechargeable cells (NiMH/Li-ion).

I was considering the new PD ones but I wasn't sure how the UI would function. Now I understand and I prefer the Extreme's UI.

I haven't decided which UI I prefer yet. But I'm continuing to EDC one of the PD lights, so we'll see ...

 

[Rzr800]

"...As I recall, a number of people objected to the low voltage Li-ion protection in the original NDI, since it could lead to inappropriate early termination. Since most people use protected cells anyway, I agree it's probably not needed - and difficult to implement well (Li-ion only lights, like my Horus FD-1.3, were another matter - much easier to do there).

But I presume the issue you mean here is NiMH protection specifically - and that's actually a very good idea in my view (although I don't know how hard it would be to implement in a multi-power light). FYI, I've just started testing my LF5XT and was surprised to see it has NiMH low voltage protection (i.e. shuts down the light when output decreased to ~25% or so - DMM read 1.15V on the battery immediately afterwards). So it looks like that light has it ...

As far as I can tell (and I am no circuit engineer) the above light not only offers both Li-ion and NiMh circuitry protection...but it actually warns the user before he or she even arrives at that point!
This, to me, is not a matter of screwing with the simplistic nature of the torch...but a feature that CPF members simply don't demand in their torch discussions to begin with...because they're much to busy talking about "oh...and I absolutely hate it when I have to push that button twice!..." in regards to a light that isn't even designed that way for good reason! :sigh:

To give yet another example....how many members took Jetbeam to task http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=176875&page=8 for the design of their switches over all this time even after BOG claimed that they receive very few, if any, back. JB announces a new switch and (hold the phone) makes it even forward activated...the thread goes deader than a doornail for days on end!

I don't ever blame Jetbeam or even 4sevens for 'passing' on some of the harder questions asked (many times there are a lot of them and it is simply impossible) but I believe that we are our own worst enemies when it comes to exactly what we would like to see in these lights and even how they are marketed to us (see the fate of the newest Jet I Pro).

Manufacturers and distributors aren't up here to hold our hands over pages and pages of "if I only didn't have to(s)..." they're here to determine what means the most to us and deliver it.

And if simply protecting our batteries is asking to much of those fixated elsewhere...then maybe I really don't understand the flashaholic syndrome to begin with.

 

[gadgetnerd]

As someone who's ruined a few cells overdischarging them, I appreciate the option of battery protection if it's there. And in the LF5XT it actually is an option, which can be disabled. Can't say fairer than that. Then again there are people object to even having the choice. Go figure.

 

[DM51]

Very good post, Rzr800.

 

[amanichen]

Click your browser reload if you don't see the trace for the second D10.

As you can see, runtime on this sample was back into the expected range. All part of the Vf lottery I guess - at least it doesn't seem to be an issue for performance on rechargeable cells (NiMH/Li-ion).

Holy cow.

I don't know I'm willing to play a lottery that big. I just hope the performance on NIMHs is more consistent =)

 

[selfbuilt]

Very good post, Rzr800.

Ditto.

I don't know I'm willing to play a lottery that big. I just hope the performance on NIMHs is more consistent =)

I'll keep you posted, but I don't expect much of a difference on a regulated NiMH mode (based on results to date and my experience with other lights). It seems to be primary cells that are most effected by Vf in these newer multi-power light.

But this raises another point related to Rz800's comments about what we as a community prize. In the early LED lights, we were lucky if most manufacturers even went for defined output bins. Over the last year or so, it's become commonplace to specify tint bin. Are we finally getting to the point where we will expect/require consistent Vf bins too?

Certainly among modders, we always went for defined Vf bins to best match with a given circuit. I can forsee a day where manufacturers will pick up on this and source what the community wants (assuming they get the feeback that consistent Vf matters). I have a dream ...

 

[amanichen]

But this raises another point related to Rz800's comments about what we as a community prize. In the early LED lights, we were lucky if most manufacturers even went for defined output bins. Over the last year or so, it's become commonplace to specify tint bin. Are we finally getting to the point where we will expect/require consistent Vf bins too?

I don't care about WHAT bin, as long as they're the same. If the bins on all the lights are different, then it would be unethical for a manufacturer to publish a specific set of runtime and brightness numbers (a range would be more appropriate.) While it's not a light manufacturer's job to educate people about LEDs, it is in their best interest to be truthful about the complete products they produce, regardless of how each individual component performs.

 

[selfbuilt]

I've justed updated the main post with some Hi and Med mode runtimes of a second D10 sample on a number of batteries. As you'll see, max output was noticeably less than my first one - almost 10% in some cases. But the runtime characteristics are still exactly the same (i.e. lower output, more runtime). This illustrates that its not output bin that is the issue, but Vf variation.

I think the take home message here is that since the emitters are not being binned for Vf, there is some understandable natural variation. And I don't think its fair to single NiteCore out for this - it's common practice among almost all the mass-produced lights. I think if we want more consistency in terms of Vf, this is message we should be relaying back to all manufacturers.

These results also help to explain the variation seen by other members here (including nearly as great initial output of D10/EX10s as the Extreme in some cases on Li-ion). But note that the Extreme maintains its initial output level in a highly regulated fashion, whereas the D10/EX10/NDI all drop down to a lower regulated level in my testing. If I were to estimate lumen output of the regulated modes, I'd say the D10/EX10/NDI drop down to ~110-130lumens (depending on sample and battery), whereas my Extreme runs regulated at ~170-175 lumens on both battery types.

I've also done a few med modes on a Sanyo Eneloop - not surprising, the Fenix's current-controlled low modes remain the king:

Anyway, that's going to have to do for updates to these lights for the moment - I'm busy working on my LF5XT review.

 

[Rzr800]

Thanks for the Vf vs output bin explanation and real life example in terms of (finally) determining exactly what is important to us and what is not up here on CPF.

I imagine that a lot of members would just as soon 'sticky' the above and even quick link it every time a perceived difference is brought forward or a manufacturer/distributor vendor questioned on these matters.

Off topic...yet I equate this apparent unwillingness to develop a meaningful dialogue among all of us to my years past frustrations involving the offroad community.

Nearly everybody in offroading felt that it was their 'right' to receive more and more public land for ORV access...yet not a one of them was willing to discuss just what exactly that access should look like or consist of on a united front...nor what they were willing to actually pay in order to make their desires a reality within the framework of what was truly workable.

Thanks again for making us understand the issue here, selfbuilt and hopefully opening our eyes as to how indeed these things get changed to everybody's benefit.

 

[selfbuilt]

yet not a one of them was willing to discuss just what exactly that access should look like or consist of on a united front...nor what they were willing to actually pay in order to make their desires a reality within the framework of what was truly workable.

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Rz800. If things like output, tint, and Vf binning matter to us, then we will need to pay more for it. Obviously, manufacturers have gotten that message very clearly for output bins. Tint bins are starting to become quite well specified too. But the extra costs involved for defined Vf bins is pretty much unknown at this point.

I can see where having reliable availability of defined output, tint and Vf bins simultaneously could be quite difficult for the light makers, if not impossible. It's one thing to do a custom run of a small number of lights off one reel of Cree emitters. But I can't imagine the logistics of sourcing consistent triple-bins for mass-produced lights.

I suspect we will likely have to make due with Vf variability, but perhaps someone with more knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the flashlight making business (especially emitter part sourcing) could comment ...

 

[Rzr800]

"...If things like output, tint, and Vf binning matter to us, then we will need to pay more for it..I can see where having reliable availability of defined output, tint and Vf bins simultaneously could be quite difficult for the light makers, if not impossible. It's one thing to do a custom run of a small number of lights off one reel of Cree emitters. But I can't imagine the logistics of sourcing consistent triple-bins for mass-produced lights...I suspect we will likely have to make due with Vf variability..."

It reminds me of the LiteFlux thread where guys were (evidently) specifying (and receiving) individualized tint.

I would imagine that anything could have a price put on it if, as you say, anybody even bothered to comment on this desire...yet I think manufacturers and even more so distributors get a little bunt out on what would seem to be the obvious:

Anything out of the norm beyond the often ridiculousness of customer service (which, I'm sorry, but vendors often bring on themselves)....you're going to have to pay for.

Heck, we don't even many times offer to meet these guys half-way on some of these costs and tend to lean towards just the opposite:

"How can I get that for next to nothing...or better yet...'free' "?

(sorry to go off-topic; yet even reviews aren't necessarily free....and I'll unashamedly use that segway to plug your battery fund and at least 'appear' to be getting back on track... )

 

[brucec]

Warning: Picture and text heavy!
A minor issue that may need some tweaking involves the brass ring in the head. In case of inconsistent switching, it may need to be adjusted by opening the gap using a fine tip screwdriver or other device (i.e. if the piston sleeve isn't making full contact with it). I didn't have any problems on my D10, but I did notice an issue on my EX10 - a "clicking" sound was heard in the head upon release of the piston switch, and the light was not always disengaging.

I quickly realized the problem - the brass contact ring wasn't always springing back up smoothly after the piston release, but getting stuck or popping up with a delayed reaction (hence the clicking sound). In my case, the problem was easily solved by applying a generous portion of the same low viscosity Teflon lube around the outside of the ring and working it in by repeatedly pressing on the ring. That did the trick for me, but in more severe cases you may need to disassemble the head to more thoroughly lube the spring below this contact ring. This can done by unscrewing the steel retaining ring in the bezel of the EX10 using your thumb or a piece of cloth. The lens and bezel o-ring can then be removed, and the light engine will just fall out the front of the bezel.

Note that I don't consider either this or the overly viscous piston lube issue described earlier to be major problems.

Thanks for the advice as I had a similar problem with the piston releasing on one of my EX10s. However, I would like to warn everyone that there is a potential danger if this is not fixed properly. I worked in the lube without full disassembly and got the piston working more smoothly. But, as it turns out, not smoothly enough because the piston must have popped back at some point (in my backpack). I don't know how long it had been on (max), but it was one hot potato when I finally discovered it. I was barely able to touch it long enough to turn it off and the battery label had partly melted off! Anyways, after a full overhaul and lube job, it seems to be behaving itself. I am still not confident to leave it in clicky mode, but thankfully, I prefer momentary anyways. Hope this helps save some lights and backpacks!

 

[cave dave]

Back in the day HDS used to offer Programability, Flux, Tint and Vf upgrades at about $20 for each one if I recall.
So the HDS EDC U60XRGT cost about $80 more than a B42, IIRC.

Who is willing to do that on a chinese $54 light?

 

[Rzr800]

Back in the day HDS used to offer Programability, Flux, Tint and Vf upgrades at about $20 for each one if I recall.
So the HDS EDC U60XRGT cost about $80 more than a B42, IIRC.

Who is willing to do that on a chinese $54 light?

Great point and one that should probably be a 'sticky' in terms of answering future questions. I think the problem here centers around the fact that CPFer's feedback concerning these items centers around raw complaints...rather than any opportunity for manufacturers or distributors to actually provide these options through true quality CPF suggestions followed by a "put your money where your mouth is" standard fee structure.

 

[LED-holic]

Great info.

With regards to the nimh self-protection, it would be nice to have, but for me, it's not a big priority.

The reason I say this is because I EDC my D10, and as soon as the light isn't as bright on max any more, I charge the Eneloop. Same on my L1D, and other lights.

Battery protection might be a good idea for a light that might get accidentally activated and left that way, but for my personal usage, I'm not willing to pay a lot more money for this feature.

 

[gottawearshades]

So many threads on these lights, I wasn't sure where to post this comment!

I do want to say, thanks, Selfbuilt, you reviews rock.

One of my own impressions. I purchased the EX10 a couple of weeks ago, and just recently decided to also buy a D10. The efficiency on lithiums (my AA choice - I don't work with rechargeables much) is not great, but I prefer the UI to the Fenix L1D and I thought I should have one good multimode pocket light that runs on AAs just in case some apocalypse destroys all the 123A cells.

Anyway, it's amazing how different the beams are, even though they have the same emitter and the same reflector.

The EX10 is not bad, like several other good quality Cree lights I have, with one dark ring around the hot spot but then a more-or-less-uniform corona. The D10 is butt ugly, with more dark rings and a downright splotchy corona.

I don't get it.

So, just my $.02.

 

[selfbuilt]

With regards to the nimh self-protection, it would be nice to have, but for me, it's not a big priority.

FYI, for those for whom this is a priority, check out my new LiteFlux LF5XT review.

The EX10 is not bad, like several other good quality Cree lights I have, with one dark ring around the hot spot but then a more-or-less-uniform corona. The D10 is butt ugly, with more dark rings and a downright splotchy corona.

Since the reflectors are identical, I'm guessing the issue is in the height adjustment of the reflector around the emitter. I've noticed a fair amount of variability among NDIs (which again use the same reflector). A pity the D10/NDI is not user adjustable.

 

[underconstruction]

Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?

I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.

 

[HKJ]

Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?

I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.

I checked the current drain from the battery:
NiMH: 24 mA
LiIon: 7.2 mA

 

[underconstruction]

I haven't seen anyone take a current measurement in ma of the d10 on its lowest mode. Does anyone have any data?