4sevens Maelstrom G5 or Quark Turbo 123/2?

[jcalvert]

Jcalvert,

Thanks for your input! I've made my choice and I'm going with the g5:devil:

As for the spell check, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I actually read your previous thread asking about a 1-2 cr123 light. As I was reading, I swear I recall thinking to myself, "this guy has serious writing skills!"

Ti-force,

I actually think the g5 would be easier to mod then the smaller quarks. The head comes apart easily and there's probably more space to work with.

As far as reflow soldering, I don't have access to a reflow solder station, so that's out of the question. I think I'm going to borrow the mcpcb+led from my 123/2 and try it out.

How do you accomplish your reflow soldering? I've seen the oven technique, but it seems a little iffy to me.

Arc,

From simply a flashlight user's point of view and a person who requires a combination of the highest quality available at the lowest possible price, in other words, VALUE, I think you'll love the G5 (remember to look at Planet Optics website at $110, unless you can get it for less elsewhere with your CPF discount).

If you do find it cheaper somewhere with our CPF discount, would please let me know, I might get another to keep in my wife's minivan for she and the kid's safety.

Combined with my Fenix TA21 and EagleTac T20C2 MKII, these three lights fill all my needs in the medium-small size flashlight category without breaking the bank...yet!

Thanks for writing skills compliment, as a former surgical sales rep where business letter writing was a mandatory, I had to learn. The only problem though of not having spellcheck at our immediate disposal while drafting these replies, is that it takes forever for me write all this stuff because where some people call me a perfectionist, which I disagree with, I have been diagnosed as having a form of mild OCD. The kind that makes me proof read over and over until it gets dark out, HaHa! And after all the proof reading, if I still find a mistake, well I won't go into that.

Anyway, I'll look forward to your impression of the light when you receive it and have a chance to use it. Oh and BTW, be sure you get the newer version with 4 lumen mode eliminated and a second max mode added...cool?

All the best,
John

 

[ti-force]

Jcalvert,

Thanks for your input! I've made my choice and I'm going with the g5:devil:

As for the spell check, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I actually read your previous thread asking about a 1-2 cr123 light. As I was reading, I swear I recall thinking to myself, "this guy has serious writing skills!"

Ti-force,

I actually think the g5 would be easier to mod then the smaller quarks. The head comes apart easily and there's probably more space to work with.

As far as reflow soldering, I don't have access to a reflow solder station, so that's out of the question. I think I'm going to borrow the mcpcb+led from my 123/2 and try it out.

How do you accomplish your reflow soldering? I've seen the oven technique, but it seems a little iffy to me.

I forgot that you would be using the MCPCB out of a Quark, which the emitter would already be soldered to. That would probably work just fine as long as the thickness is the same, and as long as the leads aren't soldered too close for the reflector to sit far enough down or anything like that. I actually use a soldering iron for re-flowing. Click here for an example. I don't actually show that I'm using a soldering iron in that thread, but that's how I did it. I clamp the MCPCB into the alligator jaws, then start heating directly under the bottom of the emitter. I recommend that you try it a few times with an emitter that's either bad or not very important to you. This way you get the hang of it without damaging an emitter that you plan to use. Just jump on in and try it out. CPF member Alphazeta gave me those words of advice once, and it worked out very well :thumbsup:.

 

[ACRbling]

Thanks John! I will make sure to post my impressions upon receiving the light.

I actually browse and post on cpf on my phone for the most part. Usually I'm at work or in the restroom. Lol

The safari browser on my phone has spell check and auto correct, but errors in corrections occur quite often, so sorry for that. Haha

Regards,
Alvin

 

[ACRbling]

Oh wow, I didn't know it was possible to correctly reflow solder without a reflow solder station/unit.

So what I have to do is clamp the mcpcb so I have access to both sides.

Tin the contacts under the emitter

Place the emitter on the mcpcb and heat the underside of the mcpcb until the tin/solder under the emitter flows.

Is that correct?

 

[ti-force]

Oh wow, I didn't know it was possible to correctly reflow solder without a reflow solder station/unit.

So what I have to do is clamp the mcpcb so I have access to both sides.

Tin the contacts under the emitter

Place the emitter on the mcpcb and heat the underside of the mcpcb until the tin/solder under the emitter flows.

Is that correct?

Yeah, that's the gist of it. Like I said though, practice before the real deal, that way you get the hang of it. Also, remember to make sure you don't have any shorts before you connect power. Any excess solder should flow out of the sides of the emitter, but anything is possible. One more thing - you may also have to use something and push the emitter down while the solder is melted. If it's heated fast enough to the correct temperature, the emitter should just pull itself into place, if not, you'll have to place it yourself.

 

[ACRbling]

Nice! Thanks a bunch Ti

I remember asking you earlier about TIR optics in a quark. I actually found a few at my workplace. I believe they are carclo 16-17mm, and it does seem like it would fit in the quark head. All you would need to do is grind down the tab on the side and it should slide right in.

Weird thing is, I placed it onto the r4 emitter on my pd30 and I couldn't get it to focus like my e2dl. I even got it to project a perfect square like an aspheric, but it also had some spill.

What would you use to hold it in place when its in the quark head?

 

[jcalvert]

Thanks John! I will make sure to post my impressions upon receiving the light.

I actually browse and post on cpf on my phone for the most part. Usually I'm at work or in the restroom. Lol

The safari browser on my phone has spell check and auto correct, but errors in corrections occur quite often, so sorry for that. Haha

Regards,
Alvin

Alvin,

Now that you're going to go bigger and brighter with the G5, but have a lot of experience with the smaller Quarks and were even considering the Turbo, I was curious what your thought about me getting the 123/2 Turbo would be as I'm looking to add a little smaller 4"-5" EDC light to my repotoire. If you remember my call out, I included the Turbo as one of three lights on my own short list.

Below is a repost of my rediculously long post for you to refresh your memory of what I am looking for. You can just zip down to my list of criteria. Compare the Turbo to the other two on my current, short wish list and let me know if this is the light I should go for in this category.

Keep in mind though that I developed a good business relationship with an online reseller that I have purchased products from before and have come to trust. He is making me a pretty darn good offer for both the EagleTac P20C2 MKII and Nitecore SR3 along with several accessories. One issue though to consider is that the reseller doesn't think much of 4Seven's owner's business practices. So although I'm a big boy and I shouldn't let someone's opinion of another cloud my judgement, it does give me pause. What do you think, is the Turbo a very good choice or just so-so? Thanks!

John

>>>HELP!!! Newbie's searching for a 1x/2x CR123A/RCR123A/1x 18650 4"-5" EDC Flashlight
Hello CPF Members,

With only a week under my belt as a new CPF member, still very limited technology and product knowledge and only so much time to do product research, I need to solicit some help, advice, and suggestions in my search for a relatively large EDC-style of flashlight that come as close as possible to fitting my criteria that follows later. Before I give the criteria, let me provide a little background first.

I'll start with the lights I have purchased recently that fall into what I would call a medium-small category and why I like them. They include my first purchase,
1. The Fenix TA21 (XRE-Q5) which I really like for its heft, selector ring, and output levels to name a few.
2. The EagleTac T20C2 MKII (XPG-R5) which is relatively light for its size, but very durable, and offers a very nice combination of max lumens, lux, flood to throw beam quality along with several other very nice features.
3. And lastly, the 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 (XPG-R5) which has a nice bezel-turning UI, the best lux (17K+) and hotspot by far of the three with again, some nice features.

These lights range in length from 5 7/8" (ET T20) to 6 5/8" (TA21), outside bezel diameters of 1 ¼" (TA21 & T20) to 1 ½" (G5), and approximately the same 1" body tube diameter, and all three take CR123, RCR123, & 18650 batteries. In other words, they aren't too big or too small, they all have great hand balance and therefore, they are essentially the same style of light that I prefer. Where the significant differences lie and that I was intentionally looking for in having three separate lights of similar style is in their lumen levels, lux output, and then their flood to throw beam patterns.

Also, I holster all the lights listed above, whereas I am searching for larger, pocketable, EDC-style lights that I would put in large camp short/pants cargo pockets or the tool pocket of my Lee carpenter jean shorts/pants. That's why it can be 4" to 5".

So in searching for a similar light(s) as the medium-small versions listed above in a smaller, 1x or 2x CR123A or CR123A/RCR123A or even the rare, short 1x 18650 flashlight, I'm hoping to develop a list of lights that you guys believe would fit my criteria.

I would then research each one on CPF and on their respective manufacturer/dealer websites as well as YouTube videos (if available) and then pare down the list carefully with all factors taken into consideration and then finally make a decision on one or two different models to purchase.





BTW, a few other criteria include:

• Primary focus #1: preferred length range of 4" to 5" (under 4" is simply too small for my taste),
• Primary focus #2: can accommodate either a 1x or 2x CR123A, 1x or 2x RCR123A, or 1x 18650 battery. But length takes precedent!!!
• no head to tail straight tube styles as I prefer larger bezels than the bodies and slightly larger tailcap diameters (if available),
• tactical/cigar rings are preferable for the added grip on a light of the length,
• lanyard points of attachment, preferably on the tailcap or at a dedicated point,
• 200+ lumens
• maximum lux with at least 5K output and a nice flood-to-throw beam mix,
• preferably, but not essential, a newer version LED (such as the XPG-R5, etc.)
• UI needs to simply be user-friendly. Whether the UI is a rotary selector ring style, bezel turning style, or any other style of UI, they can't be considered too lax or too stiff by the majority of those with the experience of having used them.
• at least three general lighting modes including high/max of 200+ lumens, medium (60-100), and low of below (20). More general lighting modes like my medium-small models listed above would be great. I also want tactical modes available of strobe, SOS & beacon, preferably with a general max/turbo lighting mode included in the tactical group (like the G5), but it's not necessary. Yes, I happen to be one who can see their potential benefit! However, the tactical modes must be either user defined-on/off (especially strobe) or in a separate grouping from the general lighting modes.
• Last mode memory would be preferred (TA21 & G5 have that, the T20 doesn't completely)
• Push button tailcap switch
• Anti-roll, slip resistant medium to heavy knurling or other grip features.
• All the standard items of course, such as a regulated circuitry, forward clicky, etc.

So, there you have the wish list of selection criteria. Please help me find a 4" to 5" EDC-style flashlight that fulfills the listed criteria.

If that light does not exist, I will pare the list down as needed. I will also edit the list if I think of other criteria that I failed to list on this initial "call out" for your help.

Some of the models that I am currently considering based on my own research, without being in any particular order of preference include:

1. EagleTac P20C2 MKII (5.1", I can deal with .1" extra being that it's such a nice light)
2. Nitecore SR3 (4.25", except that I read that it has "possible" selector ring laxity issues)
3. Quark 123/2 Turbo (4.9", this is a real contender at the moment)

This search should give the real flashoholics a nice challenge, so that I (a non-flashoholic) have more time to do other things (you married people with busy kids know what I'm talking about). If you provide a particular product idea, please list its pros and cons.

Thank you all in advance for your assistance.

Oh, BTW, I have looked over Selfbuilt's CR123A/18650 reviews and 1xCR123A/RCR comparisons, but I believe I read that even he admits that the old 1xCR123A/RCR list needs updating.

All the best;
John <<<

 

[ACRbling]

Hey John,

Don't know anything about the SR3, unfortunately.

P20c2 vs. Quark turbo is a tough choice. Both lights have superb UI's, build quality, output and features. I don't even know which one I would pick

Honestly though, I would suggest you get yourself a Quark 123/2 tactical in neutral white xpg r4. It's currently my favorite light and used the most. I cannot recommend the light enough. It runs on 2 cr123's and 17670 li-Lon regulated.

Output on the light is 220 lumens OTF for neutral white and the tint of the led must be experienced. Grab one while it's still available!!

*forgot to mention.. The size and profile of this light is perfect for edc. I'm sure you would not be disappointed.

 

[jcalvert]

Hey John,

Don't know anything about the SR3, unfortunately.

P20c2 vs. Quark turbo is a tough choice. Both lights have superb UI's, build quality, output and features. I don't even know which one I would pick

Honestly though, I would suggest you get yourself a Quark 123/2 tactical in neutral white xpg r4. It's currently my favorite light and used the most. I cannot recommend the light enough. It runs on 2 cr123's and 17670 li-Lon regulated.

Output on the light is 220 lumens OTF for neutral white and the tint of the led must be experienced. Grab one while it's still available!!

*forgot to mention.. The size and profile of this light is perfect for edc. I'm sure you would not be disappointed.

Where do you recommend I look for one?

Is it at least 4" long?

What is it that you like about it so much?

What are the differences between the tactical (R4) and the turbo?

Why "Grab one while it's still available!!", is it going to be discontinued soon?

Lastly, what does "the tint of the led must be experienced" mean? Thanks!

John

 

[ACRbling]

John,

You can purchase it straight from 4sevens.com. It comes out to exactly $73.60 for the Quark 123^2 tactical neutral white r4 + an AW 17670 li-ion.

The light is 4.5" long with a diameter of .86". Comes with a great clip as well. Best I've come across so far.

The reason I like the light so much (have 3 of them) is because of the size, profile, size, smooth beam pattern, high output, tactical Ui, etc. Trust me, you'll understand once you get one.

The turbo model is not offered with the neutral white xpg r4. The turbo model also comes with a larger head for more throw. But you have your g5 for that. What you need is a small edc light which puts out a wall of light.

The neutral white xpg r4 is a limited run. Once they're gone, they're gone. These led's are not readily available, that's why you don't see other manufacturers offer them in their lights.

After experiencing the color of a neutral white led, I don't think I'll be able to use cool white led lights anymore. So much so that I'm going to mod my g5 with a neutral white xpg r4 led. Things look so much more natural rendered with a neutral white led.

Let me know what you think

 

[jcalvert]

John,

You can purchase it straight from 4sevens.com. It comes out to exactly $73.60 for the Quark 123^2 tactical neutral white r4 + an AW 17670 li-ion.

The light is 4.5" long with a diameter of .86". Comes with a great clip as well. Best I've come across so far.

The reason I like the light so much (have 3 of them) is because of the size, profile, size, smooth beam pattern, high output, tactical Ui, etc. Trust me, you'll understand once you get one.

The turbo model is not offered with the neutral white xpg r4. The turbo model also comes with a larger head for more throw. But you have your g5 for that. What you need is a small edc light which puts out a wall of light.

The neutral white xpg r4 is a limited run. Once they're gone, they're gone. These led's are not readily available, that's why you don't see other manufacturers offer them in their lights.

After experiencing the color of a neutral white led, I don't think I'll be able to use cool white led lights anymore. So much so that I'm going to mod my g5 with a neutral white xpg r4 led. Things look so much more natural rendered with a neutral white led.

Let me know what you think

Is it this one at $67.00, http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_402&products_id=2317.

Hey Alvin,

I do want to try a neutral led flashlight. From what I've read it all boils down to personal taste for how objects are illuminated, including if you're indoors or out, in a rural, natural setting or urban streets, etc. So I want a neutral to compare with my others that are either my (1) XRE-Q4 or my (2) XPG-R5 (the G5 included of course).

What I would hate to have happen though is that I begin disliking the non-neutrals after spending so much money. And I'm nit ready or in a position to get into customizing or modifying at this time. However, it could be that I end up liking both cools and neutrals and want to have both types available...who knows! First things first though, I need a neutral to compare with the others.

BTW, as you know, I'm new to this expansive world of illumination products and technology, would you be willing to do me a favor? Would it be possible for you to put together a short, rudimentory list of definitions of which I can delve into deeper as time permits. Perhaps you could break down a flashlight by its macro parts progressing into the micro parts with names for each, along with non-part terminology like bin and flux, etc. I'm lost when I see these terms being used on CPF and manufactuers websites. If this is possible, I would really appreciate you doing that for me!!!

And then I can ask questions about individual things as needed. I would completely understand if you don't have time, since I don't. Thanks for your consideration.

John

 

[ACRbling]

I'm not an expert in led lighting but I'll try to help you out as much as I can.

At first I didn't have a problem with the standard cool white tint that normal LEDs produced. But once I experienced the neutral tint led, I've found that it looks much more pleasing, both indoors and out. Blueish light is actually straining on my eyes indoors and causes a ghostly/grayish effect when used outdoors (hiking in the forest, trees look creepy).

Current light utilize a few types of LEDs from a handful of manufacturers. Most common at the moment are Cree and luminous.

Neutral white LEDs are slightly less bright than their cool white counterparts. Due to the fact that extra/more phosphors are used to hide the blue tint.

Xre and xpe currently go up to the r2 flux bin for cool white. I believe neutral white is offered up to the q5 flux bin for the xpe die.

Xpg's are currently offered up to the r5 bin with s2 just around the corner. Neutral white xpg's are offered up to the r4 bin, in limited quantities at the moment.

So if you pick up a quark 123/2 in neutral white, you'll be getting the most efficient and brightest emitter that Cree offers at the moment in neutral white.

 

[jcalvert]

I'm not an expert in led lighting but I'll try to help you out as much as I can.

At first I didn't have a problem with the standard cool white tint that normal LEDs produced. But once I experienced the neutral tint led, I've found that it looks much more pleasing, both indoors and out. Blueish light is actually straining on my eyes indoors and causes a ghostly/grayish effect when used outdoors (hiking in the forest, trees look creepy).

Current light utilize a few types of LEDs from a handful of manufacturers. Most common at the moment are Cree and luminous.

Neutral white LEDs are slightly less bright than their cool white counterparts. Due to the fact that extra/more phosphors are used to hide the blue tint.

Xre and xpe currently go up to the r2 flux bin for cool white. I believe neutral white is offered up to the q5 flux bin for the xpe die.

Xpg's are currently offered up to the r5 bin with s2 just around the corner. Neutral white xpg's are offered up to the r4 bin, in limited quantities at the moment.

So if you pick up a quark 123/2 in neutral white, you'll be getting the most efficient and brightest emitter that Cree offers at the moment in neutral white.

Alvin,

You may have noticed that I started a thread titled, "Newbie needs help with understanding flashlight anatomy & terminology." One of the administrators sent me a link to an old thread he put together that should give me the education that I'm looking for. Thanks very much for offering to help. Trust me, I probably will still need to ask you questions as I move along the learning curve.

Right off the bat in fact, curiuosly for educational purposes, can you describe to me the difference between the XPG-R4 LED of the Quark Tactical Limited Run light vs. a Q4-5A neutral white LED available for the EagleTacs that are on my wish list? I'm still trying to make decisions!

If you don't mind, we can communicate via PM's which will help me to learn how to use that method effectively. tre sent me my first ever PM yesterday. I was kind of excited for something new like that. What a dork I am!

I think it would be a better way to communicate without clogging up the forum. That's really pretty funny from a guy who doesn't do Facebook, Twitter, text messaging, etc. I barely even use my cell phone that often for good old fashioned live talking. I prefer the home phone! BTW, if you decide to communicate via PM's. I could provide my home number there so that you could help me even more efficiently, because honestly, I type really very slowly and sitting here at my desk really takes a toll on my low back and my hip replacement, and I'm only 49.

Think about all that and if you can, please describe the LED differences I referred to earlier. Thanks as always.

-John

 

[ACRbling]

John,

Before I fall asleep I'll try to explain the led differences to you.

The eagletacs q4 5a is a older xpe led. It's far less bright and efficient than the xpg r4.
Q4 is the flux bin. Xpe flux bins goes as follows > ...q4, q5, r2, r3 (limited)

5a refers to the tint of the led. It's actually a tad warmer the the xpg in the quark, which I believe is 4c/d.

The neutral white xpg is rated at r4 flux bin. So it should even be brighter than the highest rated xpe cool white at the same drive currents.

Goodnight!

 

[jcalvert]

John,

Before I fall asleep I'll try to explain the led differences to you.

The eagletacs q4 5a is a older xpe led. It's far less bright and efficient than the xpg r4.
Q4 is the flux bin. Xpe flux bins goes as follows > ...q4, q5, r2, r3 (limited)

5a refers to the tint of the led. It's actually a tad warmer the the xpg in the quark, which I believe is 4c/d.

The neutral white xpg is rated at r4 flux bin. So it should even be brighter than the highest rated xpe cool white at the same drive currents.

Goodnight!

Alvin,

Thanks for all the info on LEDS, I'm beginning to make sense of it all.

As for talking by phone, after further thought, I hope that I haven't breached a social-networking protocol and put you in an uncomfortable position, If I did, I must apologize.

Anyway, I think I have enough online reading material to keep me occupied for some time and I know I can always write my questions!

One last thing, if I decide on getting a Quark 123/2 in the limited run, neutral white LED, is 4Sevens the only place to get it with their 8% CPF discount, or can I get it somewhere cheaper? I'm always looking for a deal!!!

And as for the Turbo, since it's not a limited run item, again is there a retailer that would offer a better price with a bigger CPF discount?

Thanks for everything!

-John

 

[ACRbling]

No worries John. If you have any further questions, down the road, send me a pm. If you really need to talk to me, that's fine also.

As for buying the light, I don't know of a retailer which offers the limited run 4sevens lights. If you do find one, it'll probably be 2% cheaper, which isn't much. I'd rather purchase the light from the source, just in case, you know?

Same deal with the turbo. 4sevens has everything instock and their service and shipping times are great.

For your two lights, the prices are more or less the same among the retailers. The maelstrom g5 on the other hand is much cheaper through a dealer other than 4 sevens. I just have to make sure I get a new updated model and not the old one, with the gimp UI.

Regards

 

[jcalvert]

I appreciate all that. Since you apparently don't have the G5 yet, don't forget: http://www.opticsplanet.net/4sevens-maelstrom-g5-flashlight.html.

John

 

[jcalvert]

John,

Before I fall asleep I'll try to explain the led differences to you.

The eagletacs q4 5a is a older xpe led. It's far less bright and efficient than the xpg r4.
Q4 is the flux bin. Xpe flux bins goes as follows > ...q4, q5, r2, r3 (limited)

5a refers to the tint of the led. It's actually a tad warmer the the xpg in the quark, which I believe is 4c/d.

The neutral white xpg is rated at r4 flux bin. So it should even be brighter than the highest rated xpe cool white at the same drive currents.

Goodnight!

Hey Alvin,

I'm confused about the information provided by the manufacturers for two of the 4"-5" lights on my short list with neutral white LEDS.

The EagleTac P20C2 MKII w/ a neutral white Q4-5A and the limited run, 4Sevens Quark 123/2 Tactical w/ XPG-R4 that you have recommended.

The confusion stems from both the info you provided above and the manufacturer's listed specs.

The ET is listing its max lumen level for the Q4-5A at 270 (OTF), whereas with the Quark, the max lumen level is listed at 230lumens (XPG-R5) minus 7% (to compensate for the neutral XPG-R4 LED) for a total of 214(OTF?).

If the XPG-R4 is supposed to have more output than even the older, cool, white LEDS, let alone the older neutral white Q4-5A's and since the lights are of very similar dimensions, how can there be not only an inverse disparity, but such a large one at that?

To add to the confusion, some claim that just because a new LED emerges on the scene, it doesn't necessarily mean it will provide more output than older versions, all other things being equal that is.

If you can help clarify this, it will help me make a decision. Thanks!

-John

 

[ti-force]

Nice! Thanks a bunch Ti

I remember asking you earlier about TIR optics in a quark. I actually found a few at my workplace. I believe they are carclo 16-17mm, and it does seem like it would fit in the quark head. All you would need to do is grind down the tab on the side and it should slide right in.

Weird thing is, I placed it onto the r4 emitter on my pd30 and I couldn't get it to focus like my e2dl. I even got it to project a perfect square like an aspheric, but it also had some spill.

What would you use to hold it in place when its in the quark head?

I'm not really sure about the focusing issue. Are you saying it focused correctly with one XP-G and not another? Are you certain that you had the same focal length on each emitter?

I'm not sure what you could use to hold it in place. Maybe some type of flexible adhesive? I'd go with something that's removable. Maybe clear silicone? Whatever you decide to use, be sure you check the datasheet to make certain it won't effect the emitter negatively in any way. I believe I've read that super glue can fog the dome of certain Cree emitters.

 

[asdalton]

I have an Eagletac T20C2 MkII with the XP-E Q4 neutral white LED module, and there's no way it's putting out 270 lumens.

The XP-G R5 module is supposed to be 300 lumens OTF, so it doesn't make sense that an emitter with a much lower flux bin (Q4 --> Q5 --> R2 --> R3 --> R4 --> R5) would be only 10% dimmer.