1127LB vs PM1236

[las3r]

Hey guys its tax time and I have just enough funds to buy a lathe and need lil help on what to get


i hear the 1236 is the best to get, I like it because it can swallow a Mag D body


I was talking to Matt and he says a PM1127LB is also a 1.5 bore so why can't it swallow a mag ?? Am I missing something lol

but
should I go for the 1127LB and buy accesories to cut threads on a mag and other custom projects and
Ill be saving around $1100

or just buy the 1236 ?? I need to hear some thoughts ASAP because the prices are going up on those lathes

 

[Ziuck]

I have had both. I recently sold off my 11x27LB and purchased the PM1236. The 11x27LB was a nice lathe. It will hold a D mag light. I had upgrade the controller to a KB controller that gave me dynamic braking which was really nice. Controlling the speed on the fly was nice and is the only thing I miss.

The reason I got rid of it was because of the spindle mount and change gears. The 11x27 had a non-standard spindle mount so you would have to make or buy a mount from PM for each chuck. The 12x36 has the D1-4 which are readily available. The change gears were easy to change but a pain. You would have to change out 3 sets of gears to thread 20tpi and then change them back to use the power feed to turn. The 12x36 does have a change gear but you only have to swap it out when using certain thread pitches. For the common sizes you do not have to change any gears.

If you can afford the PM1236 and have to room I would recommend it. If you do not have much room then the 11x27LB is the way to go. I just saw on the Bluemachine group on yahoo a 11x27VFI-LB. It is a 3-phase VFD version. I'm not sure if it is a replacement or another upgrade. Matt does not have it on his site yet.

EDIT: The other issue I had with the 11x27 was with the cross slide/compound. It would flex when parting! The way the gibs are I could never get rid of the flex. I also had problems with my QCTP turning slightly under heavy forces. I think this is because I didn't modify my compound and left it stock.

 

[las3r]

Thanks for sharing ur experance with the 2 lalathes if anyone might no about how much does it cost to convert your home appliance outlets to 220V for the 1236

is it hard to do

 

[darkzero]

i hear the 1236 is the best to get, I like it because it can swallow a Mag D body

The PM1236 spindle can't exactly swallow an entire MagD, only partially. This is how far it can. It's the chuck that will contain most of it. I don't work on Mags so it really doesn't bother me but it's good enough for MagD work anyway.

I was talking to Matt and he says a PM1127LB is also a 1.5 bore so why can't it swallow a mag ?? Am I missing something

Yes. All my MagDs are about 1.55" in dia. The spindle bore may not exactly be 1.5". Past the taper my spindle measures just over 1.53" so none of the Mag Ds I have will fit through. Someone else reported that their spindle bore on their PM1236 was roughly 1.47" so even 1.5" bar stock would probably not fit all the way through.

To completely fit a Mag D through the spindle you would need a 1-9/16" spindle bore like on the G4003. Or you can research into boring it.

The reason I got rid of it was because of the spindle mount and change gears. The 11x27 had a non-standard spindle mount so you would have to make or buy a mount from PM for each chuck. The 12x36 has the D1-4 which are readily available. The change gears were easy to change but a pain. You would have to change out 3 sets of gears to thread 20tpi and then change them back to use the power feed to turn. The 12x36 does have a change gear but you only have to swap it out when using certain thread pitches. For the common sizes you do not have to change any gears.

The change gears & spindle mount were the main two reasons I did not stick with the 1127-VF along with some other minor ones. The LB version was not available at the time & before the LB version these lathes had a DIN 55021 spindle which is similar to the spindle they currently have except it had a nose taper.

Thanks for sharing ur experance with the 2 lalathes if anyone might no about how much does it cost to convert your home appliance outlets to 220V for the 1236

is it hard to do

You can not simply convert a single 110V outlet to 220V if that is what you were referring to. Is running directly from the power panel an option?

 

[StrikerDown]

I don't know your shop/garage layout or it's proximity to the power panel, but most people would add a 220v circuit rather than trying to convert a 110v that is already in the house. The main problem with your house wiring is that there are usually several receptacles throughout the house that are on the same breaker so the existing wiring can't be used.

If you are not an electrician I would recommend getting one to put in a dedicated circuit. An electrician will know codes and procedures for doing this correctly and safely.

It isn't hard to do. The cost is going to vary depending on distances, whether you want the wiring inside the wall or surface mounted conduit and if there is available breaker space in the panel, etc. Calling an electrician for an evaluation and quote would be your best bet.

Remember to take pics and share with us.

 

[BVH]

It's interesting that most people use "220V" when referring to either 220V or 240V. I've only ever known 240V in the 5 homes and 4 towns and 3 power companies I've had. (So Cal Edison in one, Burbank produced power and Pacific Gas & Electric) I guess it's the same thing as using 110V instead of 120V.

 

[darkzero]

I used wonder why too. I always get 120V & 240V on my meters. I asked a maintainence guy once & he told me that was nominal voltage & the lower voltage terms were used due to line losses or the devices or something like that, I forget. But I can't recall ever measuring closer to 110v before. I don't know, I just copy what people say in posts.

 

[las3r]

The PM1236 spindle can't exactly swallow an entire MagD, only partially. This is how far it can. It's the chuck that will contain most of it. I don't work on Mags so it really doesn't bother me but it's good enough for MagD work anyway.

Yes. All my MagDs are about 1.55" in dia. The spindle bore may not exactly be 1.5". Past the taper my spindle measures just over 1.53" so none of the Mag Ds I have will fit through. Someone else reported that their spindle bore on their PM1236 was roughly 1.47" so even 1.5" bar stock would probably not fit all the way through.

To completely fit a Mag D through the spindle you would need a 1-9/16" spindle bore like on the G4003. Or you can research into boring it.





The change gears & spindle mount were the main two reasons I did not stick with the 1127-VF along with some other minor ones. The LB version was not available at the time & before the LB version these lathes had a DIN 55021 spindle which is similar to the spindle they currently have except it had a nose taper.



You can not simply convert a single 110V outlet to 220V if that is what you were referring to. Is running directly from the power panel an option?

It looks like that's a 3D mag body and I don't think ill be doing that large of a body mainly 2D cut down to a 1D, my breaker box is about 20yards from my house so I don't think it should be to hard to run to my garage

 

[precisionworks]

It's interesting that most people use "220V" when referring to either 220V or 240V. I've only ever known 240V in the 5 homes and 4 towns and 3 power companies I've had.

USA distribution voltage (today) is 240-480. Utilization voltage (what comes into your breaker box) runs from 1% to 3% lower because of line losses, so 233-238 is nominal (or 466-476). Electric motors for USA use are standardized to run at 230-460.

There are still a lot of motors rated 208-230 & be careful of those (as in surplus or eBay finds). They are a nominal 220 motor that's meant to run as low as 200 or as high as 240. Not a prob if your nominal is 230 volts more or less. Can be a big issue if your nominal is 250 (and there are places in the USA that run that high) because that's 13% over the 220 that they are designed for. Keep all motors within +/- 10% of nominal (nameplate) voltage & they run for years or decades. Go below or above that & life is short.

 

[StrikerDown]

I used wonder why too. I always get 120V & 240V on my meters. I asked a maintainence guy once & he told me that was nominal voltage & the lower voltage terms were used due to line losses or the devices or something like that, I forget. But I can't recall ever measuring closer to 110v before. I don't know, I just copy what people say in posts.

Due to line drops or resistance of the wire over distance, the actual voltage into your home will vary with the distance from the transformer on the pole. It may be several volts above 120 if close, and as low as 107 if some distance away.

Actual standard is supposed to be 117/234 VAC. One house I lived in as a kid had the transformer box in the yard by the garage where the panel was! We went through light bulbs pretty fast! The measured voltage was never below 122/244 and sometimes went as high as 126/252! That was measured by the power company when my dad complained. they plugged in a box with recording paper for a couple days to get the average.

Here is the test though and the winner will get a free glass of ice water at the nearest Starbucks!

Explain why on a most 3 Phase circuits (excluding hi leg delta circuits) do you get 110-120V on one leg to neutral but you get around 208V between two hot legs?

 

[Th232]

Explain why on a most 3 Phase circuits (excluding hi leg delta circuits) do you get 110-120V on one leg to neutral but you get around 208V between two hot legs?

I think it's because each leg is +/- 120 deg out of phase compared to the other two?

Edit: Now watch as I get this wrong because I didn't google it...

 

[StrikerDown]

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

Congratulations, your free glass of ice water will be available at your nearest Starbucks on your next visit!

 

[precisionworks]

From our friends at NEMA:

Explain why on a most 3 Phase circuits you get 110-120V on one leg to neutral but you get around 208V between two hot legs?

That describes a 120-208 Wye system, pretty common in the USA.

In a Wye configured system, the phase-to-neutral voltage is equal to the phase-to-phase voltage divided by the square root of three

208V / 1.73 = 120V phase to neutral

Since each phase in a 3 phase Wye configuration is 120 degrees from each other, the L-L voltage is not the
algebraic sum of the L-N voltages but a vector addition. A quick method that can be used for phase angles that are
120° apart is to use the Line-to-Neutral voltage multiplied by √3.

V L-N x √3 = V L-L (120V x 1.7333 = 208 V)

The other common 3-phase USA system is 240v Split Phase Delta (aka 120-240 Delta)

One phase is split (center tapped to ground) to derive 120, phase-to-phase is 240 & phase-to-ground is 208.

 

[BVH]

My old 1985, 120 lb Sorensen 40V 70A variable Linear DC power supply is tagged as 230V. Do you think the 5% rule applies? I'm running it on 240V with no issues. It's main transformer is multi tap with 208, 220 & 230 taps and a smaller transformer is also multi tapped. Have them both on the max 230 tap.

My 1986 Sorensen 40V 50A transformers are 208, 220, 230 & 240 Volt tapped for comparison.

 

[las3r]

here is my panel box in my home since i do not have one in my garage in a few weeks im going to see how much it might cost to have a 220v box put in my garage

 

[precisionworks]

The good news is that 15-17-19 are unused & a double pole breaker only needs two open positions.

The usual way to bring 240v to the garage is to install a 40A or 50A double pole breaker in (for instance) position 17-19. Run the appropriate size wiring to the garage, with wire sizing based on both amp draw & total distance of run from breaker box to the garage load. In the garage install a small subpanel that can hold half a dozen breakers for the different circuits that you'll run.

 

[350xfire]

What Barry said. Here is what I did.
Ran a 3 conductor plus ground cable (I think 8 gauge) from main panel to sub panel. Like Barry said you need to slots on your main panel to feed the sub panel.

The cable used will have a red, black, white and bare lead... My house is only a year old so I'm not sure if codes have changed. The black and red go to the breaker. The bare and white will go to the obvious spot where the ones in the main panel are located. You will see a couple of terminals where the originals will be attached to. Just use an empty slot. Once in the sub panel, repeat what you did in the main panel.

BTW, you only need to run the white wire if you want to run 120 out of the panel as well. If you only want 240v then no white is needed.

Yes, it is against code to leave an empty slot in your panel like I have... I've been meaning to cover it up.