After the EMP/Solar Flare/Grid Hack

[Crazyeddiethefirst]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. As I researched the issue, I am struck by the feeling I had about Y2K....nobody really has an accurate way to predict the actual effects with any specificity. Therefore, I will do the same as I did for Y2K: prepare for the worst and pray for the best. My collection of lights affords me a lot of flexibility regarding incandescent Vs LED, but I will expand my supply of bulbs, which currently cover most formats I have...

 

[irongate]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. As I researched the issue, I am struck by the feeling I had about Y2K....nobody really has an accurate way to predict the actual effects with any specificity. Therefore, I will do the same as I did for Y2K: prepare for the worst and pray for the best. My collection of lights affords me a lot of flexibility regarding incandescent Vs LED, but I will expand my supply of bulbs, which currently cover most formats I have...

That is a good way of doing Sir:twothumbs

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

I remember reading a story about the coronal ejection that seared all life from the surface of the earth, some human escaped in spaceships others went deep underground, after a number of years the led`s started to die one by one, so they had to rely on incandescent bulbs and as they wore out, tungsten to make new filaments became extremely had to find and after a 1000 years they were forced to return to the surface of the earth.

John.

 

[moldyoldy]

hmmm, skipping comments about an EMP or CME or ..., the responses tended to fall into one of two camps:
Those who favored a stock of primary cells;
and those whose primary planned lighting support came from rechargeable cells.
In the case of rechargeable cells, various means were employed by which to re-charge the depleted cells.

Regarding primary cells: Storage conditions are important! We have all observed in flashlights stored with cells, that primary cells leak. even the Alkaline cells. and some of the Eveready Lithium cells in my possession have developed fuzz on a terminal long before the listed lifetime expired. Early Lithium cells used in the emergency radio beacons on light A/C were notorious for starting fires. At that time, rechargeable cells were only Nickel-Cadmium Pocket cells with a fluid electrolyte and used primarily in A/C. Hence primary cells do not represent my main interest.

Before the military and the engineering worlds, I spent a couple years in the US Forest Service (early '60s) up on the Bitterroot Divide between Montana and Idaho, 'Big Timber Country' in the 'backwoods'. any doctor was several hours away. So at that remote ranger station, the only power came from a diesel generator in the mule pasture - generation hours of about 0530-1900. off the rest of the time. the USFS relied on primary cells, purchasing "D" Cells and other specialty radio cells by the case. These were supposed to be the 'good' cells, not just the 'carbon-zinc' cells. One of my jobs was to dispose (dig a hole) all "D" cells older than 2 years - the USFS standard lifetime for those D cells. The specialty radio cell supply was easily exhausted each season. One time I asked the fire boss if I could keep some of the D-cells. no objection. so I went thru a case of D-cells testing them.....I buried that case too.

I will stay with rechargeable cells, be they individual 14500 or 18650s or any variation of the USB/18650 combinations.

oops, forgot to include the AA Eneloops as well. The D-cell Ni-MH cells are too pricey. If I need that AH level, then I would switch to the 18650, or 26650, or some battery pack.

 

[broadgage]

Most modern cells require careful charging, and that implies the use of a sophisticated battery charger that is most unlikely to survive an EMP event.

My favoured rechargeable cell are the "old school" D size NiCad 4 amp hour capacity, intended for emergency lighting. These are very long lasting and reliable and can be charged safely without a proper charger.
Presuming that you have a large, charged, 12 volt wet cell battery, these 4AH D size cells may be charged by a simple connection with a resistance in series to limit the current. A lamp is the best resistance since it confirms correct operation by lighting.
Recommended charging is 0.2 amps indefinitely or 0.4 amps for 14 hours.

Example to charge 6 such cells in series I would use a 6 volt 0.3 amp lamp as the resistance. Charging for about 20 or 24 hours would be about right, no great accuracy is claimed, nor is any needed. A not full charge will often serve the purpose, and this type of cell withstands overcharge well.
Fast charging is possible but great care must be taken.

These cells are normally supplied spot welded end to end, covered in heat shrink, and with wires or terminals at the ends. It is a simple matter to buy a stick of the correct number of cells, remove the wires or terminals and insert into a standard cylinder shaped flashlight.
These are widely sold on UK fleabay, may be less popular in America ?

Prices on UK fleabay are often in the region of £2 to £3 per cell, that is a 4 cell stick would be in the region of £8/£12, a dozen of those, a few 4d maglights, and a hundred bulbs could give you lighting for decades provided that you had means of charging such as a PV module.

I keep several of these 4 cell sticks to hand, and old 4 D maglights with incandescent bulbs. The oldest batteries are well over 20 years old and still work perfectly, though I do have newer ones as well.

 

[moldyoldy]

^ Good points Broadgage! Thanks for the input! I forgot about these cells.

I agree that the 'old school' Ni-Cad cells would be good for this purpose. Ni-Cds evolved from pocket-plate (fillable liquid electrolyte) to sintered-plate to jelly-roll, etc. Excellent high-current characteristics which is why Ni-Cds were used in A/C systems. The Ni-Cd chemistry tolerated over-charging very well, so even a simple current-limited charging method such as a current source in-series with an incandescent bulb was effective. I agree that the modern Li-Ion charger, if not protected, could have problems if exposed to an EMP or similar upset event, all depending on the orientation of the charger to the pulse radiation source.

The primary problem with Ni-Cds in my experience was the whiskers growing thru the cell separator, leading to the cell discharging quickly and then with the whisker shorting out the cell, it would not charge. A jolt of high current would 'flash' the whisker, but the tiny hole thru the separator remained, and the failure cycle repeated. I had this consistent experience with the first consumer-grade low-cost GE Ni-Cd sub-C cells inside a wrapper up to D-cell size, or eventually the AA Ni-Cd cells. The problem was not limited to consumer-grade Ni-Cd cells. I spent company money for an expensive Tektronics battery pack designed for one of their a semi-portable Oscilloscopes. in time I repeatedly replaced several cells in this pack, then eventually moved on to other design efforts. Eventually I realized that some sort of low-level constant charging was necessary.

why a battery supply for an oscilloscope? I needed total separation from the AC Mains because I was measuring AC waveforms from Revere Load Cells, which meant measuring as low as a microvolt of delta V output. I even had to drive my own ground rod just outside the R&D lab with a heavy wire coming thru the window to obtain stable readings. We designed truck and track weigh-scales used for payment and we had to be accurate. The track scale was used weighing-in-motion with 1% guaranteed accuracy. All of our scales needed a ground rod on site.

Back to the old Ni-Cds: the large AH cells/packs as found in many surplus houses (Axeman, etc.) could be culled to find some good cells or even entire packs. Hence the proposed usage would be effective for these old packs. In any case, adaptation and innovation will be the rule of the day for 'the day after'!

 

[moldyoldy]

Broadgage and other posters indirectly reminded me that the lighting itself does not have to be a flashlight, or lantern, or candle-lantern.

The little mini-USB based COB lights such as sold by DROK or Vitee via Amazon, and in particular the touch dimmer versions, are a valid light source. avoid the non-dimmer versions. 5-6 of these COB lights cost ~~$10-$18. For general room walk-thru lighting, just 1 or 2 of these COB touch dimmer lights and a USB battery pack and you will have light for the night hours. warm or cold tints are available from different brands. 150ma full current draw.

I handed out quite a few of these to relatives/friends etc. Probably the best use reported back to me has been a night light for the hunting cabins which normally have no electricity. Since these LED PCboards are bi-directional for the USB port, turn the combined USB pack &/or light in the desired direction, set to the level desired, and it will run the entire night easily.

I have an assortment of USB-output battery packs from 5400mah to 20600mah, so far. many vendors sell these. however I have discovered that the useful AH capacities start at about 4-5AH or about 2x 18650 cells internally. my wife uses a 20AH USB pack for her Ikea USB LED light.

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

I suppose you would not need that much light if you get up at sunrise and go to bed not long after sunset, Back to the timetable our body`s were designed for.

John.

 

[irongate]

I suppose you would not need that much light if you get up at sunrise and go to bed not long after sunset, Back to the timetable our body`s were designed for.

John.

That is the way it is now for me =up at 4:30 am =bed 9:30 so it is. That is how life is when you get old!

I really hope we never see the day of a real EMP, but Iran and N.K. well that is another story.

 

[moldyoldy]

FWIW, one quirk or Macke that may have been noticed about these USB output power packs: they shut off automatically if the current drawn from their USB port is too low. different manufacturers have different current cut-off levels. the reason is that keeping the electronics in the USB pack functioning also takes some current, which would otherwise discharge the cells.

I found that out because my wife uses the Ikea LED light powered via a USB plug for her nightlight in the bathroom and plugged in to a USB power pack. The current draw from the Ikea LED USB light is insufficient to keep some of my USB power packs operational. the shut-off time varies between the USB packs from less than a minute to 5 min or more. hence I use one of the little LED lights mounted on it's reversible USB plug in a second port and set that to a low output level. or if the USB pack has a single port, then the COB LED light is the nightlight albeit set to a higher output level.

noting also that I attempt to avoid use of the AC mains for alarm clocks or checking out anything that goes 'bump' in the night. my first instinct is to reach for a flashlight at the bedside and check out the noise, never for a light switch. My UPS beeping is my first warning of a power failure, although if a Thunderstorm is expected, I will shut that off to save run time just in case. I routinely use my UPS to keep my cable modem & wireless router up/running during power failures - checking on the extent of any power failure is the first task. The cable system itself has never failed in multiple living locations, even for day/night long failures. not sure what their backup system is.

edit: The Ikea LED USB light draws about 50ma at 5v

 

[broadgage]

I do not believe that ANY of the USB based devices mentioned would survive an EMP attack, they all contain electronics.

The future after an EMP would be either flame based lighting or very simple incandescent electric lighting from low tech batteries, ones without any inbuilt protection circuit and not reliant on an electronic battery charger.

 

[moldyoldy]

I do not believe that ANY of the USB based devices mentioned would survive an EMP attack, they all contain electronics.

The future after an EMP would be either flame based lighting or very simple incandescent electric lighting from low tech batteries, ones without any inbuilt protection circuit and not reliant on an electronic battery charger.

I concur - given that the average electronic device is sitting on a shelf or in a drawer somewhere in conventional living quarters. the KV/meter induced from past nuclear tests is scary.

however the EMP pulse outcome changes depending on storage in a metal box, preferably steel, or some metal wrap of sufficient density. I use the common surplus US Military .50 cal ammunition boxes to store my more versatile chargers, USB power packs and lights. The overlapping flange is key here.

going off topic a bit: I do know that EMP testing is being conducted, both generation and susceptibility. The EMP source is not a nuclear device. as one general commented to me: "all I have to do is to send an EMP drone down the line of battle and everyone is back to iron sights".

 

[broadgage]

Just about on topic, does anyone still manufacture wet Leclanche cells ? The dry components should keep forever and the assembled cell should be utterly EMP proof.
Not portable of course but still useful. A quick google suggests they are no longer made.

I have stored the materials to make basic lead acid cells, the materials store indefinitely and the working life should be 20 years or more once assembled.

 

[irongate]

Here is some information on EMP's and what countries are planning to do their warfare with it.

http://allnewspipeline.com/Dr_Peter_Pry_Is_Nuclear_Deterrent_Enough.php

 

[BloodLust]

I might spring for a Crossbreed Resistor Ark Protector bag. $20.
I'll load it with a quality AA light with moonlight mode and AA lantern. A solar panel (Like a Goal Zero Nomad 7 and a Guide 10+ charger/power bank. Single bay USB charger (Liitokala Lii100 or Olight UC). Some alkalines as backup.
The lantern is a backup to the flashlight and the single bay charger is backup to the Guide10+.
Keep the Ark bag in an insulation lined metal ammo can.
In the can as well are some candles, tinder, lighters, matches, ferro rod with striker.

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I just took a bath using just a bucket of water and the bathroom lit with only a tea light.
Simulation of a water shortage and power outage.

 

[irongate]

I might spring for a Crossbreed Resistor Ark Protector bag. $20.
I'll load it with a quality AA light with moonlight mode and AA lantern. A solar panel (Like a Goal Zero Nomad 7 and a Guide 10+ charger/power bank. Single bay USB charger (Liitokala Lii100 or Olight UC). Some alkalines as backup.
The lantern is a backup to the flashlight and the single bay charger is backup to the Guide10+.
Keep the Ark bag into an insulation lined metal ammo can.
In the can as well are some candles, tinder, lighters, matches, ferro rod with striker.

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I just took a bath using just a bucket of water and the bathroom lit with only a tea light.
Simulation of a water shortage and power outage.

Good idea on the bag, Thank You

 

[Confederate]

How about a safe? Will most heavy safes protect electronic equipment from an EMP event?

Are protected 18650 batteries safe? Or will the protective circuit be in danger of being fried?

Thanks!

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Are these new phones ect that charge wirelessly be more susceptible to an emp as they charge by induction.

Also phone`s and tablets are never truly turned off unless you pull the battery so an emp will still get them unless they are shielded.

John.

 

[irongate]

On this bag you can cut it in halve and store different items in each one. Then seal it with aluminum heating duck tape and you are good to go. It one bag someplace and one different place

 

[xdayv]

One thing I don't like about the ARK protector bag is it doesn't have a sealing mechanism like a zip lock type. There are other products that have one, more convenient. But to its effectiveness, I cannot determine.