ATV Lighting

[DP425]

Allow me to first start by saying, thanks for all of the previous posts that covered "LED conversion" in cars and motorcycles. I already knew HID conversions were not only illegal, but unsafe and a serious downgrade in performance, but the LED bulbs are pretty new (at least it appears the ones that make an honest attempt at replicating beam origination) so my knowledge on this was starting at zero. I first started looking at these bulbs for my ATV, then for my Ducati Diavel (which has an H7 at least for the low beam, not sure about the high beam... and could be a bit better performing). Well, after seeing the info put out as well as the visual pictures showing the deficiencies, it's apparent this is not an option. But, not a loss- I didn't come away with a good 65w recommendation and that's the route I'll be taking.

Yet, I'm still left with my ATV. Of course my ATV isn't street legal, and the factory halogen headlights don't seem to be all that well designed to begin with... But regardless... The draw to LED conversion bulbs for the ATV's for me is primarily a wattage issue. I have two Polaris Sportsmens (both 2013) from their value line; a 400HO and a 500HO. I really like these machines so far... except for one glaring fault... they come with a stator that puts out somewhere around 200w. I'm sure you guys can see where I'm going with this; that's about enough to run the machine by itself (factory lighting) and no additional loads without starting to draw more than the charging system puts out. Pretty poorly thought out if you ask me... it seems like pretty common knowledge that people like to add things to these machines- auxiliary lights, winches, stereos, etc etc. So, pair this with a wetcell 14ah battery, you're primed for a charging system warning... especially if you run a plow (which uses the winch to raise and lower).

Okay, so problem identified- a pretty weak factory charging system... options to solve the problem... Looked into having the stators re-wound to put out more wattage- time and again I was told it's one of the few machines that is pretty well maxed out from the factory. So without the ability to increase output, I need to do two things- increase reserve/storage and decrease load. I had new battery trays fabricated and welded in, so I'm now running 28ah AGM batteries attached to BatteryMinders when not in use. Off to a good start... Okay, so what can I do for decreasing the load? Well, not a whole lot. I swapped the tail light/brake light bulbs to LED bulbs; this saved me a little and my visual assessment on performance difference is that it isn't enough to be concerned about (ATV's don't have any specific requirements for tail/brake lights other than they must exist and function) I am running a 10" Rigid Industries light bar on the front of each quad; they put the factory headlights absolutely to shame. But that only sort of decreases my load. See, I have two lower headlights that serve as the low beams and a single headlight pod at the handle bar stem which serves as the high beam. Obviously if I just killed the factory lights I would be ahead on this. One problem with that- the headlight pod moves with the handle bars... I find this very, very useful on tight trails- it tosses the light in the direction I'm steering rather than the direction the quad is facing. So I find myself running my 10" bar with my high-beam on.

I promise I'm getting to the end here...

Recognizing the difference in beam production, and very possibly, even a decrease in actual lm output, does anyone see a reason I should NOT try these in the headlight pod? My concerns are having a performance change that's so horrible that it becomes pointless to run the pod light (I actually wouldn't complain if the beam here a bit less focused, but not excessively)... AND... environmental issues. Even IF the cooling fans and heat sinks on these "new" LED bulbs are enough to keep them cool in a car, they would be in a mostly enclosed pod with little air circulation. And they could be subject to splash from water and/or mud. Now, I don't swim my quads and don't run snorkels... so if the pod ends up totally submerged, a ruined $60 bulb is the least of my concerns (hydro-locked engine with bent rod and broken piston would be much more costly).

So what are the experts thoughts here? I've tried to think of other alternatives but thus far haven't came up with anything other than this and hacking up the pod light to install a rigid industries square flood... it's not all about aesthetics, but I don't really want my quads looking like mad-max mobiles. I've also thought about mounting lights to the handlebar itself, but I haven't really seen any that wouldn't look obnoxiously large and are still reasonably price (rigid industries value). So I suppose I'm also open to something along those lines if its small enough and isn't going to cost me $400 for each quad.

Alright, sorry for the long post! I just wanted to be sure you all understand my situation, and especially the fact that this is legitimately for off-road use; I saw a thread a guy tried to start about his motorcycle then tossed in "uh I mean for at the track" when pointed to the no illegal use clause! Use for my Ducati is no longer an option and I'm just tossing it around for the quads out of lack of any other options I can think of. If I had waited seven months to buy my bike, I could have bought a generation II that has a full LED headlight from the factory... It's a $1200 part to buy separately and requires a little wiring to make work on the Gen I bikes; I'll obviously just stick with halogen.

Anyway, thanks for sticking with me on this post! I'm really looking forward to hearing your input!

 

[Franco]

DP425,

I don't think that retrofiting an LED into the high beam reflector will solve your problems. Replacing a single bulb probably won't greatly reduce the load on your electrical system, and you might not be happy with the resultant beam pattern.

If you can live with it as is, just keep that little LED bar for closer illumination, and swap out the high beam bulb for a good quality one. I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable members on here can give you a recommendation. This would be a cheap and effective solution, and not take up much of your time.

Conversely, you could just scrap the factory lighting altogether and mount in some small modular lights. Some of Hella's lower grade modular projectors, or the like, could be used. I'm pretty confident that there are some options under your budget. This would get you decent lighting considering the speeds you'll be doing, and it'll use around the same amount of electricity if you unplug the factory lights.

Best of luck with finding a solution!

 

[cland72]

I'd suggest removing all your factory incan bulbs, and buying a Chinese-made LED light bar to mount to your front rack. With a little electrical work, you can run your LED light bar by either using a separate toggle switch, or by using your factory headlight wiring to activate a relay for when you turn on the high beams.

Check out eBay item 181428411545. A friend has two of them on his UTV and they have worked well for the last few months while we've pounded on that machine over several weekends.

 

[DP425]

Thanks for the input everyone!

What I am already running are the Rigid Industries SR 10" light bars with the driving configuration. These put out about 5500lm in a much more effective beam pattern than the factory lights. So in terms of general lighting in front of the quad, I'm more than good to go.

The only reason I use the top "high beam" pod light is because it moves with the handle bars and tosses more light in the direction I'm turning rather that the direction the ATV faces. I'm sure some of you area aware how big of a difference you can have between the direction the ATV is facing and the direction you're turning can be on tight trails; it almost ends up being a case where you're at full lock left and by the time your front lights toss illumination on your new direction of travel, you're already there. In all honesty, while the LED light bar I have installed does absolutely incredible things for forward illumination, it being so bright does seem to make observation to the lateral more difficult.

It seems the ideal solution might be a pair of some sort of smaller "bullet" style LED flood light that can be mounted on the handle bars. I've been looking around, but with little success. There seem to be a lot of halogen options, usually 35w each, but that's 70w total- very much the opposite direction I want to be going!

 

[DP425]

I found "Vision X"; any experience with them? They have lights as small as 1.7" and beam spreads up to 60 degrees (though 30-40 seems more common)

 

[cland72]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Try eBay item 331215763651 instead. They are much smaller, and probably wouldn't be nearly as intrusive on your handlebars.

 

[Supur-Lyte]

Have you seen the thread about the forum member who is designing, building and selling LED lights?

 

[DP425]

Have you seen the thread about the forum member who is designing, building and selling LED lights?

OH... thank you for that link! I have only read the first post but it already looks impressive who knows, maybe I can find a good use for one... or two!

 

[GhostMatador]

Keep in mind that your stator is rated at 200 Watts while idling. Meaning you'll only be in a negative charge when you're pulling over 200 watts sitting there. Driving it will produce more wattage. I'd throw in 2 of these:

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1195/39789/Polaris-Blue-Xenon-Headlight-Bulbs

and that leaves you 75 watts for your other lights. Computer and readout doesn't use much more than 25 watts. Also I would give my opinion that the ratings on stators are usually a bit modest (although it is a Polaris hahaha) I have Yamaha raptor with all kinds of stuff hooked up and never had a problem.

 

[bnemmie]

DP425, I am working through the exact same problem. I have a new '14 Polaris 570 and wasn't happy with the stock light output. I splurged and got the Polaris LED Upgrade kit for the headlights and have been very happy with the results. The lights are much brighter and now the low beams no longer cut out when the high circuit is activated. I still have the problem with the light on the headlight pod. It's still halogen and I'm not a fan of having the mix of LED/and halogen. I have researched various options for LED bulbs but wasn't convinced that the output would be enough for my needs. So i came up with a temporary solution like you thought about: I mounted a spare pair of Rigid Duallys on the handle bars with some bar mounts with tabs and I wired up a switch in a temporary location. Its not a pretty solution, but its effective. At least until I can get a proper LED upgrade for my headlight pod. BTW I also replaced the taillights with LEDs just to save my battery a little bit. It works well and is significantly brighter.

 

[DP425]

Keep in mind that your stator is rated at 200 Watts while idling. Meaning you'll only be in a negative charge when you're pulling over 200 watts sitting there. Driving it will produce more wattage. I'd throw in 2 of these:

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1195/39789/Polaris-Blue-Xenon-Headlight-Bulbs

and that leaves you 75 watts for your other lights. Computer and readout doesn't use much more than 25 watts. Also I would give my opinion that the ratings on stators are usually a bit modest (although it is a Polaris hahaha) I have Yamaha raptor with all kinds of stuff hooked up and never had a problem.

I cannot swear to this, but I'm about 95% positive that Polaris rates their stators at something like 3500 or 4500 RPM. They are most certainly not rated at idle, and they are definitely not under rated. I love my machines, IMO they have hands down the best AWD/4x4 system available, but the "value line" seem to almost be engineered to barely produce enough wattage to run the bike as it comes from the factory.

 

[DP425]

DP425, I am working through the exact same problem. I have a new '14 Polaris 570 and wasn't happy with the stock light output. I splurged and got the Polaris LED Upgrade kit for the headlights and have been very happy with the results. The lights are much brighter and now the low beams no longer cut out when the high circuit is activated. I still have the problem with the light on the headlight pod. It's still halogen and I'm not a fan of having the mix of LED/and halogen. I have researched various options for LED bulbs but wasn't convinced that the output would be enough for my needs. So i came up with a temporary solution like you thought about: I mounted a spare pair of Rigid Duallys on the handle bars with some bar mounts with tabs and I wired up a switch in a temporary location. Its not a pretty solution, but its effective. At least until I can get a proper LED upgrade for my headlight pod. BTW I also replaced the taillights with LEDs just to save my battery a little bit. It works well and is significantly brighter.

Yeah, between everything I'd seen on here about the LED "conversion" bulbs and their performance (granted, pod light application is a good bit different than automotive), and the concern that the little fan could get trashed from the eliments, or the unit over-heat due to the very small, non-ventilated compartment the fan and heatsink would sit in... AND finally, taking a good look at the space behind the reflector and considering there may not even be enough space to fit the whole heatsink/fan tail piece... well, I've just totally given up on the idea of running the pod light at all. I'll most likely unplug it and use that plug to wire in a couple small vision X pods on the handlebars.

I too want to get the factory LED headlight assemblies and I've seen outstanding reviews of them on the Polaris Forum. But, nearly $800 between my two machines isn't going to happen too soon. I've got a lot more than I even want to think about tied up into electrical modifications to these things as it is.

 

[-Virgil-]

Yeah, between everything I'd seen on here about the LED "conversion" bulbs and their performance (granted, pod light application is a good bit different than automotive)

No, actually, it isn't. The lamps are different (often cheaper and more pathetic on an ATV) but the optical principles involved are identical.

 

[DP425]

No, actually, it isn't. The lamps are different (often cheaper and more pathetic on an ATV) but the optical principles involved are identical.

I was speaking more toward my application; my pod light only serves the purpose to toss some light in the direction I'm turning the handle bars, so long as it isn't a spot beam (actually, more spread is better for me given the short distances), then it would serve its purpose. I use it on trails in the woods where a tight turn leaves me steering into a location that otherwise would be void of light. Beam integrity wasn't really a concern of mine, just cutting current draw and if possible, bringing more light with it. A good, moderate flood beam would actually be ideal. Point is, for my uses (everyone's use on ATVs are different), my application is very much different than in a car.

I understand what you're saying about reflector design and all of that; an LED conversion is still not going to perform the way the reflector was designed to perform. But for my application that doesn't matter much, and actually could have had a benefit depending on how dispersed the beam would have ended up. I don't use my pod light (considered my "high beam") for a high beam; my 10" SR2 light bar entirely drowns out my factory lights.

But non-the-less, it's all a moot point for me anyway; I'm abandoning the pod light anyway. There is just no good solution to decrease current draw, maintain reliability and retain usefulness (which, given the somewhat narrow beam it has already, isn't that much to begin with). If I could just pull the thing entirely and replace it with some quality LED units, I would. But it's integral to the "dash" assembly that holds the main gauge and switches. So I'm stuck with it unless I want to get exceedingly creative... and I do not. I'm leaning heavily toward two Vision-X 1.7" or 2" pods clamped on the handlebars. I could even build an adaptor harness to use the same light plug and control them with the high beam switch.