Brightest I can get <$25. Love my SK68 clone. Research shows XM L2 ??

[93accordlxwhite]

I like flashlights, but I'm budgeted so I just buy what I need. I don't need anything high end, it's simple use for a) bike headlight b) trail hiking at night c) walking/etc. normal use. No waterproof, shockproof, etc. I found the SK68 clone while looking for a cheap bike headlight (it's 80% effective, no complaints). I really like it because it is small/smooth/cylindrical. The button's great, and zoom is easy. I carry spare AA's anyway, so 1 AA is fine. It was my first "good" LED flashlight, and an incredible value.

Now of course I want the next step up. I see there's a SK98 using an 1850 I think, with a T6. I think a T6 is an XM L (maybe they changed names?). So that seems like it would be alright..
^That's like $12.50 including 2 1850s and a charger

But then I found out about the XM L2 which is supposed to be ~20% brighter than the XM L. So may as well do that. And I understand they're binned: Worst -> Best S4/5/6, T2/3/4/5/6, U2/3

I'm having some trouble sourcing the newer XM L2's though. I'd like something that looks like the SK68 as much as possible (cylindrical). Does it matter whether it's powered by AA's or an 1850? AA's (got lots of rechargeables) would be much more convenient. If 1850's were ~20% improvement that might be worth the hassle of keeping track of them. Also I'd like to keep that $25 budget to include a charger & 1850's if possible (I know they'll be cheap ones, how big of a problem is that?)



Here's what I've found so far, all I really want is at least 2 modes, bright & low. Others would be alright, but not a deal breaker:
Nothing on ebay or Amazon
$12.17 Ultrafire 1300lm CREE XML2 U2 5 modes the most stable 502b flashlight+1*charger+1*18650 battery


$13.99 Ultrafire 1300lm CREE XML2 U2 5 modes the most stable 502b flashlight+1*charger+1*18650 battery

$22.50 Crelant V11 LED flashlight Cree XM-L2


$23.80 Crelant V21 LED flashlight Cree XM-L2 LED


And some others:


I can't think of any other sites than those.

 

[Mr Floppy]

Also I'd like to keep that $25 budget to include a charger & 1850's if possible (I know they'll be cheap ones, how big of a problem is that?)

you mean "18650" and how much of a problem will cheap ones be? Well, that depends. If you are looking for high performance then cheap is not the way to go. Safety is also another concern you may want to consider when you go the cheap route. That said, it can be done. SK98, Miller ML102 charger (not version 7.1 , wait for version 8 or may the version 7 is ok, not sure), and you'll have about $12 to spend on a quality 18650.

 

[Mr. Nobody]

Buy a p60 host and source ur parts and build ur own light, hella cheaper and you get the BIN you want

 

[93accordlxwhite]

So is the XM L2 really the best for <$25 or <$50?

Hi everyone, sorry for that awkward first post hey:twothumbs I don't know much about the variations in flashlights (or what makes a $300 light > $50 EXCEPT THEY LOOK AMAZING), but I really love a bright flashlight at night. So I'm chasing that one step at a time My parents 4 D Cell Maglite inspired me to go the opposite route (small and *actually* bright!)

you mean "18650"

Doh that is what I get for copy-pasting off aliexpress

Sorry for the linking, I thought it would make the options I found clearer, forgot my manners:shakehead Thank you for the edit Greta.

Buy a p60 host and source ur parts and build ur own light, hella cheaper and you get the BIN you want

^I'm not familiar with that, or good sites to buy from. It seems like just the p60 drop in LED was ~$17? Putting me over budget pretty quick?

Well you tempted me; I'm researching that last option now, having some trouble with search terms. I'm going to go check out the DIY section for a longg while Which subforum would be best for finding that info? "Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion"?
The XM L2 (U2) is easy to find ~$17 ..oh man U2 would be amazing to have.
I read the rules, so it's not polite for others to point me to a easy beginner's store/retailer, right? I was wishing for something with one-stop shopping (Would PMs be OK?)


I think it may be better to just stick to buying an assembled light (for now at least)
-I don't know what I'm doing, and am having a lot of trouble searching & finding info about p60 hosts
-I don't know what parts I need
..p60 XM L2 U2 emitter
..A donor/host/handle (and for some reason I can't find cheap ones, like the SK68 I wanted), I guess Sure Fire (That's not surefire right?) made the body style? And they seemed to really spike in popularity 2011-2013. I'd love to find a long thin one, but don't know what search term that is.
..18650 battery(ies) + charger? AA's?
-I don't know what parts are interchangeable: p60, XM L2 U2, 18650 batteries, AA, 2xAA
-I don't know how to match up voltages
-I'll still need 18650's + charger (but I could get higher quality product)
^I'm assuming that's like $50-60, but I don't know anything about this. Do used models of these come up for sale from time-to-time?


I'd really like a p60 XM L2 U2 with either 1 AA or 2 AA's though. Is the XM L2 the best LED light <$25 or <$50? Because I was expecting to find tons of info online about them, but it's been difficult so far.


Think I'm gonna look for something in the For Sale section for awhile I guess.

 

[93accordlxwhite]

*edit Somehow through the biking community I found a UltraFire WF-501B for ~$13 that hosts the p60 drop in, the XM L2 U2 P60 for ~$17, still need batteries and a charger.
If I use a host with 1 AA, or 2 AA's, will I run into issues? Thank you. I'd really like to keep my AA's.

 

[bladesmith3]

there is a very nice clone of olig*ts s15 baton that is in your budget, SolarStorm SC01 Cree XM-L2 T6 3-Mode Cool White LED Flashlight
you can google it and find vendors. I have gifted many of these and everyone likes them and uses AA batteries or 14500
I hope the reference is ok. if not feel free to delete this post.

 

[ven]

Look into the convoy range,many options of tints/modes and models

I have the m2 and its a great/solid light(m1 also),highly recommend the brand convoy for value and imo competes with more expensive brands..........sometimes exceeds..........

 

[ven]

Regarding charger,imho cheap should take a back burner,no need to spend big,but good brands are recommended. Panasonic cell,Xtar do some good chargers(as do Nitecore) for around £8 or $12 ish). Shopping careful $20 should get you a good 3400mah pany cell and Xtar or Nitecore single bay charger.

I would avoid any *****fire branded lights due to being hit/miss quality. Some are OK,its finding them.............cells and charger i would avoid altogether.

For a few more $ you can have a dependable and reliable kit that will last and not let you down come time of need:thumbsup:

 

[JasonJ]

Oh wow, buddy, yeah you are definitely a little confused. Easy to do since this flashlight business is practically low-mid level electrical engineering. I was so lost at first when I got into this. I'll try to provide some input that may help you, from my perspective.

I would go about it like this, since trying to assemble your own light right out of the gates, among other things, could lead to damaged parts or injury to yourself; start by choosing what battery/cell (there's a difference) format you want to go with. You mentioned 18650 cells, those are lithium ion.. potentially dangerous, come in a variety of chemistries, require A LOT of respect and sometimes attention. However you get crazy great runtimes and excellent voltage out of a small package.

AA or AAA format lights are clearly more beginner friendly, and is where I started (with one exception). I started my "high powered flashlight obsession" with a clone of the Sipik SK68. All over the internet in a variety of colors and emitters and modes. Single AA, plenty bright, and if disassembled you can learn how these modern LED lights go together and what the parts are. If you break it, you are either out $3-5 or you can use it as a learning experience and buy new replacement parts and try to install them yourself.

My one exception listed above was the SureFire (actual namebrand) G2 I received as a gift. It is powered by 2 CR123a cells. I researched the huge mutli-part P60 drop in threads on this site for months and finally upgraded the light, including some custom wrapped heatsinking. I also bought an Ultrafire 501b as a complete light and that opened the door for me into lights using the 18650 cells.

If and when you get to the lithium ion stuff, dont cheap out. Buy only namebrand, quality cells and use any number of quality chargers, Opus, Nitecore, Tenergy, etc... Go cheap on the Li-ion cells and chargers and they could fail on you, venting with flame and causing severe injury. Plus, you'll be ultimately disappointed like I was and end up spending cash on the real quality stuff anyhow.

Good luck, start simple. For complete lights using Li-ion, as was mentioned, look into the Convoy line of lights. I recommend the M1, the S2, S2+, S3, and the C8. For roughly $25 or less, you can get a complete light, just add the 18650 cell(s).

 

[93accordlxwhite]

Ok it's taken a long time, and a lot of confusing searching, but I think I'm on a more clear path now. Thanks largely to the communities & individuals who take the time to make the information easily available and (somewhat) understandable

Number 1) Increase my budget. In my reading someone pointed out, "Pay once, Cry once", and they had a great point. I don't think I'll ever spend >$50 on a light (since I rarely use them) so this will be it. Plus the law of diminishing returns applies, etc. I just want the best bang for my buck.

Number 2) Switch to 18650s. It's just going to be a lot easier in the long run, and I can get a sipik 98 clone (or some other 1x18650 or 2x18650 light) to replace my sipik 68 clone

Number 3) Focus on LED emitter model number, and more importantly, bin (it all clicked when I found CREE's chart comparing their LEDs). Am I right in saying that, "What matters most is what LED bin type you have" instead of focusing on flashlight model, or even battery? I understand that a 18650 will drive the LED harder than AAAs, or a cell with a lower voltage. I am unsure if the actual construction of the flashlight other than the LED bin type is important though (I understand that some knockoffs are prone to overheating due to poor heatsinks?, other failures, etc.). So basically I am looking for the cheapest, best-reviewed 18650 light that has something like a XM-L T6, XM-L U2, XM-L2 T6, or XM-L2 U2 (right?). (Seems like the most likely candidate would be an XM-L2 T6 which would outperform an XM-L U3, better still, an XM-L2 U2 [which is only ~10% brighter than the XM-L2 T6 anyway, but hey may as well, depending on color temperature]). **Note, I do not know what a driver is, does, what models are commonly available, and why/if they matter (I just found out about them looking at the Convoy models' customizations). Here is what I know as of now:
7135*3 output current 1050mA
7135*4 output current 1400mA
7135*6 output current 2100mA
7135*8 output current 2800mA
^So I would assume a higher current output would drive the LED harder, produce more lumens, and reduce battery life more quickly (as well as increase heat). The driver seems like a very important factor to consider when choosing a light, seeing as how there is almost 3x the difference in current output between the lowest and highest model offered.

there is a very nice clone of olig*ts s15 baton that is in your budget, SolarStorm SC01 Cree XM-L2 T6 3-Mode Cool White LED Flashlight
...and uses AA batteries or 14500

^Thank you, I realized now that the current sipik 68 I have uses a XR-E Q5 LED (chart below), putting out ~100 lumens maximum (and I'm using a AA). That really puts things into perspective. I found a SolarStorm SC01 Cree XM-L2 T6 3-Mode Cool White, claiming 230 lumens max, and 7500-8300K color temperature (which seems high to me, but it would probably be good as a bike light, probably not so much as a night-hiking light) for $15 shipped. That would probably be the cheapest option. Dang now I'm thinking about a second light to use with AAs bladesmithI guess I could focus on finding a 18650 first, then start searching for an XM-L2 T6/U2 14650 if you pushers keep enabling me.. a few weeks ago I didn't even know that LEDs were such a strong point.. now.......

Look into the convoy range,many options of tints/modes and models

Thank you ven, I found some of the Convoy range on aliexpress. There are quite a few, all in the $14-17 dollar range shipped. The only thing I noticed is they don't have the adjustable zoom like the sk98 clones(?), but are listed as "Switch Mode: Zoom Out"- I don't know what that means. They are really sleek, good-looking lights though. The "Focal Length- Non Adjustable" leads me to believe they only have one zoom/focus setting. This taught me something new that I haven't seen mentioned before in my searching: drivers. And also, how nice/important it is to be able to customize things like driver model and LED bin when buying a light (if for nothing else than choosing color temperature). The different models seem to all be very similar though, I don't quite understand the differences between them. Thank you for pointing me to them, I was seriously thinking up until now that I should just pick the best reviewed/highest quoted lumen output sipik 98 clone I saw on ebay with an XM-L2 U2 and it would be the brightest light I would find in my budget. Do you have any other pointers you can share about customizing when buying (specifically, which features are important to consider), and websites that more commonly offer those options to consumers? (I mean as a packaged light, not as individual LEDs, unless it is very easy to swap LEDs. I do have a soldering iron [adjustable butane so it might be too hot] so if it's easy to do, that would be great I guess. Then I'll have a thousand lights..... you guys... why didn't you warn me flashlights are so rapidly addictive)



Ok, so to be honest here (don't laugh now), I had searched eBay for XM-L2, and was planning on a $10 shipped "Cool White WF-501B CREE XM-L2 U2 LED Flashlight 18650 Torch Lamp 5 Mode Tactical" which somewhat curiously also lists a bulb in the description as both XM-L2 U2 and "XM-L T6 L2" I also found the Convoy S2, S5, & EagleeyeX2 with XM-L2 US-1A on aliexpress that I was considering.


Obviously now I'm going to wait a bit to see if I can narrow down my preferences a bit more. I think the perfect flashlight would be:
-Zoomable (or I guess focusable? is that the same?) like a sipik68/98
-Have the highest powered driver (I guess that's a 7135*8?) because I can always change the mode to medium/low, but I can't set a 7135*3 higher, right?
-Have High/Low settings at least, hopefully medium too or more. Don't need strobe or S.O.S.
-Be small and tubular like the Convoys/Sipiks (pocketable)
-Be 2x18650 or 1x18650 (not really sure of the difference)
-Have an XM-L2 U2/3 (But I think I'm willing to sacrifice some lumens to get a color temperature in the 5000-7500k range. XM-L2 U2-1A is 65-7500k so that should be fine) I think I'll end up getting 2 lights, one for hiking with a lower temperature (what do you think would be good? Looking at the pictures under the "Convoy S2+ Gray Cree XML2 U2-1A EDC LED Flashlight,torch,lantern,lanterna bike ,self defense,camping light, lamp,for bicycle" 4000-5200k all look to render pretty much the same CRI at night.)
-Have a low voltage warning I guess? Does that matter/is it even useful? I can tell when a light gets dim..
-Be under $25 shipped


I've already got the following chosen:
-XTAR XP4 Panzer Ni-MH/Li-ion Charger with USB Charging Port for Cell Phone & Car Adaptor ($35 shipped amazon)
^will this be able to replace my LaCrosse BC-700? Theoretically I think it can, then I can sell the BC-700 to make up a bit of money
-2PCS 18650 NCR18650B 3.7V 3400mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery Flat Top for Panasonic ($19 shipped amazon)
^I guess it would be best to wait on choosing flat vs button tops, but I've seen a lot of ways to modify the flat-tops to work in series (especially important if I get a 2x18650) so I don't think it would be a problem.


Some questions I still have:
-Does anyone have a chart of the XM-L/L2 bins & color temperatures/CRI's? I couldn't find one.
-Can you point me to some good websites and companies which offer customization options? So far I've got aliexpress, dealextreme, not really ebay, amazon, & Convoy
-Can someone explain how/if 2x18650s would be more beneficial than 1x18650? I'm under the impression the voltage would double, but current remain the same. So 2x18650s would = more power to the LED, more lumens, same runtime (or less, since it's a higher voltage?) Is it really necessary to have a 2x18650 light? I'd probably be using it on low most of the time, and it seems like 1x18650 are much more common.


I'd link to some good resources out there I found of battery & charger comparisons for all the lurkers learning along with me, but can't. Basically search "should I buy 18650 batteries on eBay" to learn why it's worth spending a few extra dollars per battery. And the Xtar VP4 is pretty much the consensus of the go-to budget charger. I think this thread will help a lot of new users. Thanks everyone.

 

[RetroTechie]

Am I right in saying that, "What matters most is what LED bin type you have" instead of focusing on flashlight model, or even battery? I understand that a 18650 will drive the LED harder than AAAs, or a cell with a lower voltage. I am unsure if the actual construction of the flashlight other than the LED bin type is important though (I understand that some knockoffs are prone to overheating due to poor heatsinks?, other failures, etc.).

In general, it's: battery (-ies) -> driver (determines LED current) -> exact LED type used -> optics. Everyting else is a sideshow, and/or subject to personal preferences. Starting at the business end, work your way back depending on your requirements (LED tint, lumens needed, acceptable time between battery swaps @ higher modes, etc).

As for optics: a throwy light (tight beam) is only useful if you're doing search & rescue type jobs, want to locate cattle on the other side of a field, or spot a crocodile 200m away in the river. For close-up work, you want an all floody beam. For most uses, a beam profile somewhere in between (and with less pronounced hotspot) is more useful. Check reviews to find out what beam profile, modes, user interface etc to expect.

I think the perfect flashlight would be:
-Zoomable (or I guess focusable? is that the same?) like a sipik68/98

Overrated - more of a fun gimmick than useful, imho. Zooming mechanisms don't usually provide the best of beam profiles, and lose a lot of the LED's lumens output in the process. That's ignoring mechanical issues or effect on how water-proof a light is.

If you're doing mostly distance work, get a good thrower. Otherwise, get a light with more floody beam. With enough lumens that'll still do fine for targets that are a bit further away.

-Have the highest powered driver (I guess that's a 7135*8?) because I can always change the mode to medium/low, but I can't set a 7135*3 higher, right?

Many drivers have something like a 10% -> 30% -> 100% -> strobe -> SOS cycle. Read: with a high-current driver, lowest modes are higher as well, and may become too high for close-range use, dark adapted eyes, or drain batteries faster than you'd want for those lower modes. On the other end, 2A+ may heat a flashlight (head) so quickly you can only use it on high for a few minutes. And drain batteries fast enough that you don't use the highest mode often. Rendering that high mode more for show than practical.

Look for a driver that does multiple modes, with ~1.4-2A LED current on high. That'll keep heat in bounds, provide you with plenty lumens, decent runtimes on a single 18650, and actually useful lower modes.

-Have High/Low settings at least, hopefully medium too or more. Don't need strobe or S.O.S.

+1. For the most part, flashy modes are annoying. :thumbsdow Some drivers can be set / configured to drop those flashy modes though (sometimes by on/off actions, sometimes using a solder bridge on the driver board).

-Be 2x18650 or 1x18650 (not really sure of the difference)

A single 18650 packs a lot of power compared to AA size batteries so will give you decent runtimes. Using Li-ions in series has safety implications, which I'd avoid as long as you don't fully understand what those issues are.

-Have a low voltage warning I guess? Does that matter/is it even useful? I can tell when a light gets dim..

No you can't, when a light is well regulated. But you'll find you lose the higher-output modes. For single-cell lights that's enough to avoid over-discharging a battery. So in practice, lack of a low voltage warning isn't really a problem.

If you want to save on batteries, a good method is to buy slightly older (lower capacity cells) from good brands (LG, Samsung, Sony, Sanyo/Panasonic). For example 2900 mAh vs. 3400 mAh doesn't make much difference for runtimes, but can make a big difference in price. In any case, avoid cheap 18650's with made-in-China cells inside. And before buying, make sure the chosen battery will fit into the light length-wise (see for example: protected vs. unprotected cells).

-Does anyone have a chart of the XM-L/L2 bins & color temperatures/CRI's? I couldn't find one.

Cree.com -> LED components -> Products -> XLamp LEDs -> Discrete -> XM-L2 -> "DOCUMENTATION" tab -> "XM-Family Binning & Labeling" has the info you want.

-Can you point me to some good websites and companies which offer customization options? So far I've got aliexpress, dealextreme, not really ebay, amazon, & Convoy

Try FastTech, they have a good selection of hosts, LEDs, drivers, and driver/LED options for some hosts like the Convoy series. For loose parts & hosts, there's quite a few other webshops (CNQualityGoods comes to mind, but there's many more). Just Googling for a part you have in mind, will lead you to places that sell it.

-Can someone explain how/if 2x18650s would be more beneficial than 1x18650?

Yes... 2x the energy contents. But requires a driver that converts the higher voltage to ~3V for the LED(s).

Is it really necessary to have a 2x18650 light?

NO. Our grandparents didn't have those, and they survived anyway. Nor does 99% (or is it 99,9% ?) of the world's population. But a true flashaholic may need one sooner or later, to get his/her lumen fix. :devil:

I'd link to some good resources out there I found of battery & charger comparisons for all the lurkers learning along with me, but can't.

http://lygte-info.dk

 

[PoorerthanPoor]

Ok it's taken a long time, and a lot of confusing searching, but I think I'm on a more clear path now. Thanks largely to the communities & individuals who take the time to make the information easily available and (somewhat) understandable
Thanks everyone.

I didn't want to clog up the page by quoting your entire message but I just wanted to say thanks for putting all that together. It will help guide me in choosing my first light.

 

[funkychateau]

If you want a well-machined, well-finished, XML-U2 light that is really bright, look at a Convoy C8 from one of the vendors like Fasttech. Assuming you are not looking for a really small pocket light, these things are a fantastic option for about $17.