Comparing some HDS, Zebralight, and Anduril User Interface features

[jon_slider]

1. HDS Rotary (HDS UI)
A 24 step dial that goes from 0.02 lumens up to 200 Lumens when using a Nichia 219B 4500K sw45k D220, slightly higher outputs with other LED options)

2. Zebralight SC65 (Zebra UI)
A 3 mode light that can be programmed to scroll through any 3 out of 12 possible outputs, max output 660 Lumens, minimum 0.02 lumens.

3. Wurkkos TS10 (Anduril UI)
A 150 step driver that allows ramping through all the steps when using visually smooth ramping.
Or can also be setup to use any number of stepped modes (from 1 to 150).
Highest mode is 1000 lumens. Lowest mode is 0.02 Lumens,

fwiw, Anduril UI can be programmed to change the number of steps between lowest and highest output. The highest output can also be reduced to a lower ceiling.

For example:

Anduril can be programmed to change the max output to 200 lumens, like an HDS. It can also be set to have 24 steps between the lowest and highest level like an HDS. Instead of a Rotary dial, Anduril will ramp through the output levels when pressing and holding the switch button.

Anduril can also be programmed to have a 660 Lumen maximum, like a Zebra SC65. It can also be set to have 12 steps between lowest and highest level, like a Zebra. Anduril can scroll through the selected number of steps by pressing and holding the switch button. A Zebra will scroll through 3 modes.

I personally consider the HDS Rotary UI to be the most Intuitive, with the fastest learning curve for an Untrained operator.

I consider Anduril UI the second easiest (after HDS Rotary) for an Untrained operator to learn to use.

I consider the Zebralight UI the most difficult to learn to access all 12 modes, because it can only scroll through 3 of them at any time, unless additional clic sequences are added. To access the other 9 modes requires the most complicated clic sequences (and the most forethought).

other differences

Battery Check
HDS has no User accessible Battery Voltage Check
Zebralight can report battery charge on a scale of 1 to 4
Anduril can report battery Voltage.

Shortcut to Maximum
HDS can access maximum by pressing the button while On
Zebralight does not have a consistent direct access to Maximum
Anduril can go to Maximum by double clicking, either from off or from on.

Pocket clip
HDS Rotary has a poor pocket clip option, the factory offering is a very bulky and expensive add on.
Zebralight SC65 has an excellent screwed on pocket clip, included in the price
Wurkkos TS10 comes with a poor, press fit pocket clip, included

Carry weight Battery type, and capacity
HDS typically weighs 104 grams w 16340, up to 850mAh
The Zebra SC65 weights 83 grams w 18650, up to 3500mAh
Wurkkos TS10 weighs 52 grams w 14500, up to 1250mAh

Price
HDS Rotary w sw45k $459 w clip and battery
Zebralight SC65 $97 w clip and battery
Wurkkos TS10 $21 w clip and battery

 

[cave dave]

I have all of these and I like them all!

 

[turbodog]

Thought HDS had a battery thing buried somewhere.

Also it does have the ability to output its current firmware revision using flashes. FWIW

 

[LRJ88]

The HDS does give you a warning flicker and starts cutting off higher light output levels when the cell gets discharged to a certain point, with an option to, in an emergency, run your cell completely flat if need be. Not good for the cell itself, but comparing that to having a flashlight with little juice left and not being able to sacrifice the cell in order to save yourself i way prefer getting the extra time and throw away the overdischarged one when i'm safe.

 

[jon_slider]

I agree,

what you are describing is part of the Low Voltage Protection process, that starts with stepdowns.. The other two UIs also have LVP

What the HDS lacks is a way to check the voltage or remaining capacity of the battery. The HDS cannot inform the operator how much gas it has in the tank, there is no gas gauge. .

The Zebra has a 1-4 blink battery capacity indicator, Anduril reports battery voltage on request. They both tell us how much gas is in the tank.

 

[cave dave]

Throw all three of these hard against a brick wall several times and see which has the best UI afteward!

 

[jon_slider]

Throw all three of these hard against a brick wall

lol, who does that?
Does it affect the resale value? ;-)

fwiw,
The HDS uses a 3mm thick lens, and it is protected by a thick Stainless Steel bezel. The lens does not break.

On a Zebra the lens is 1mm thick, and it is surrounded by a very thin aluminium body. A broken lens is the most common failure on a Zebralight, it can happen even from a minor drop.

The TS10 does not have a glass lens.. so, no worries there, but, if you want to throw it at a wall in order to ruin the resale value, be my guest.. you can buy 20 more of them, for the price of a single HDS… LOL!

 

[Random Dan]

Nice write up. HDS rotary is certainly my favorite. I love zebralights too but they've always felt kind of clunky to get to the output I want. Say I'm using medium and I want a little more light. I don't remember which subgroup I'm in so I double click and it gets dimmer. Dang. Now I hold the button down and it cycles low-med-high. Yay, now I have more light. But which subgroup of high am I in? Ugh. At least you have all of the levels available though.

I have an FW3A around here somewhere that I haven't used in a while. Couldn't quite get on with the ramping: it always seemed either too fast or too slow. It is still nice to be able to incrementally move up and down though.

I frequently hand my light to other people and I really like that with the rotary I can just say "spin the back to change how bright it is" and anyone can operate it. The others are not quite so simple.

 

[jon_slider]

Couldn't quite get on with the ramping

you might like using it in stepped ramping instead of smooth ramping

do 3 clics from On.. I think the default will be 7 steps

 

[Random Dan]

you might like using it in stepped ramping instead of smooth ramping

do 3 clics from On.. I think the default will be 7 steps

I tried switching to stepped, but it made the lowest level substantially brighter so I switched back. Actually after using it a bit I like the smooth ramping better than I remember liking it. Almost always I just hold the button down from off and let go once it is bright enough.

I really wish I could get zebralight's build quality and thermal regulation with anduril ui. Actually, my preference would be anduril 2 in simple mode as I don't really use any of the advanced features.

 

[jon_slider]

I tried switching to stepped, but it made the lowest level substantially brighter so I switched back

true
by default, the minimum is set higher in Stepped Ramping,
it is user configurable

by default, the lowest low is in Advanced mode, Smooth ramping

in Anduril 2, the Smooth Ramping speed is configurable to be slower

> I really wish I could get zebralight... with anduril ui.

me too, a Zebra with Regulated Anduril would open my wallet..

 

[peternewb]

Nice write up. HDS rotary is certainly my favorite. I love zebralights too but they've always felt kind of clunky to get to the output I want. Say I'm using medium and I want a little more light. I don't remember which subgroup I'm in so I double click and it gets dimmer. Dang. Now I hold the button down and it cycles low-med-high. Yay, now I have more light. But which subgroup of high am I in? Ugh. At least you have all of the levels available though.

Nice explanation of the problem with the ZebraLight level pairs UI. I still love the flashlight. I program mine to use the same output levels for both lows and both mediums, so I only have access to 4 output levels per UI group, but it's much easier to use:

From off:

• Short-click for Low
• Hold 0.6 secs for Medium
• Continue holding to cycle to High/Turbo before wrapping around to Low, Medium, and High/Turbo again
• Or double-click for High/Turbo

From on:

• Short-click turns it off
• Press-and-hold cycles through Low, Medium, and High/Turbo, starting from Medium
• Double-click to switch back and forth between High and Turbo - choice is memorized

HDS rotary looks awesome! Such convenient brightness adjustment.

 

[jon_slider]

Such convenient brightness adjustment.

agree, the HDS Rotary UI is the ultimate in simplicity.. pretty much polar opposite to the Zebra UI ;-)

HDS Rotary costs a lot more.. especially mine, pimped with a Titanium bezel w Tritium slots:

 

[peternewb]

agree, the HDS Rotary UI is the ultimate in simplicity.. pretty much polar opposite to the Zebra UI ;-)

HDS Rotary costs a lot more.. especially mine, pimped with a Titanium bezel w Tritium slots:
View attachment 52498

Very tempting!

 

[StephenD]

Just a little note on the Zebra UI (maybe a slight defense hehe as I love it so much). I've seen a few people, like me, set hold to high in the programmable G6 / G7 groups - this then means you do have access to high immediately from any state, on or off. If you then set double click to your medium too then you can easily rotate between high (short hold) and back to medium (longer hold), mimicking movement between turbo and your normal level on anduril. Another reason for this, if you care about such things is if you need high in an emergency a hold is a much more reliable thing to do under pressure than a double click. This is an important feature for me but others might not care

Also I definitely consider it a six mode light, not three mode. I use all my six main modes daily without any fuss, and I have most of the other modes available in G7 (higher modes mostly for walking) so pretty easy access to all 12. It took me a long time to figure out how to set up my zebra to work for me as I don't like to have to remember what level a light is memorised to. I think there's two options to avoid this:

1) Have a 'primary' level at each of the three main modes it is always set to, and if you use the secondary level, always switch it back before turning off. This works well if those secondary levels are less often used.

2) Change the primary memorised level based on the time of day.

I do a mixture of these. Hold is always set to max lumens (600 for me) and the secondary level (200) I use occasionally to ceiling bounce light a room then always put it back to 600.

My other two modes are set to 55 during the day (double click) and 0.2 lumens (single click). At night when I don't want to dazzle anyone I drop them down to their secondary levels of 4 lumens (double click) and 0.03 lumens (single click). I just switch these back in the morning.

So this all works really smoothly for me. I have access to six levels when I need them and never worry what level a mode is currently memorised to.

I think my main annoyance when I use anduril is that my main memorised mode during the day (which I normally like to be 50-100 lumens) is now way too bright at night and I ain't doing 10 clicks to change it. So to get to usable light it normally means ramping up from moon which just really annoys me as an interface haha but maybe wouldn't bother someone else.

Just a final note although this of course creates a very different UI and potential confusion with moving to other UIs I've had no problem with this. I play around with Anduril and standard UI lights all the time and my brain seems fine switching.

 

[jon_slider]

when I use anduril is that my main memorised mode during the day (which I normally like to be 50-100 lumens) is now way too bright at night

I agree

In Anduril on my Emisar D3AA, I set the floor to my nighttime output (level 10 = 0.1 lm). I set the floor output to not ramp up automatically, when I hold for moonlight. I set the memory to my daytime output (about 40 lumens). I also enable 10 minute hybrid memory.

For me the problem w programming the Zebra G6 and G7, is that hold to cycle no longer goes LMH, it tends to go LHM, which makes me unhappy. And I aint doin 6 or 7 clics to change groups.. lol

 

[StephenD]

Haha, fair enough yeah I would click off then back on to get to low, I never use cycle for that.

That's an interesting Anduril setup, I think my problem is I have no testing equipment but I really like to have known lumens with known run times so am stuck to what the reviews use (default 7 levels).

I recently got a d3aa and that and my zebra (sc64c le) are my two EDC candidates - I love both UI's and really enjoy thinking about the pros and cons of each so not trying to diss Anduril. I've been really enjoying quarter speed smooth ramping for moon control (currently have a newborn so lots of night usage and even using the lowest lumens a lot). The d3aa default 7 aren't bad either - the second ramp after moon is around 5 lumens so it's not that big a wait hehe.

I just have an irrational dislike of ramping from moon haha maybe just 10 clicks twice a day would solve all my issues.

 

[jon_slider]

Congrats on your growing family!

I really like to have known lumens with known run times so am stuck to what the reviews use (default 7 levels).

understood.. I have the benefit of a lux meter, that I modified to read lumens directly. I use it a lot, to check what memory level Im saving ;-).

I do prefer 12 stepped modes, homage Zebra ;-)
On my D3AA I use a ceiling of 110 (about 420 lumens), which changes the outputs of any stepped modes..

The runtime to output correlation I like to reference is the maximum sustainable output, which I get from other reviewers runtime graphs. For example the D3AA will sustain about 250 lumens (step 5 of 7), for about 1 hour and 20 minutes, per the green line on this chart from this review

 

[StephenD]

Ahh yeah I'd love to be able to measure lumens for anduril calibrations but I think a bit too much work to set that up for me right now.

That's great to know 110 is about 420 lumens (did you say in another thread somewhere you have dedomed 4500k 519a's too, which you recommended me?) that's exactly around where I'd like my ceiling.

Yes i saw that review I think it's with a 5700k so probably coming down to about 200 sustained for us do you think?

 

[jon_slider]

yes, the 420 lumen level 110/150 is from my DD 4500K 519a ;-)

> about 200 sustained

I think that is a reasonable guess.
On my D3AA
Step 6 of 7, reads 222 lumens on my meter
with 12 steps, step 10 reads 211 lumens.

I expect at those steps, the battery will last about 1.25 hours.

If I lower the output by half, which is step 5 of 7 (106 lm), or step 8 of 12 (91 lm), the runtime should double