Dedicated throwers

[BLUE LED]

WOW, you have got to love that VPT5700k. I hope they will be available soon.

 

[RCantor]

Hi

Does your NB XPC have one central wire to the led face, or does it have two, one to each corner? My nb xpc looks like the middle picture.

I don't have enough magnification to see the wires. All I can tell you is the NB XP-C die is significantly smaller than NB XR-E die. I don't have an XP-E to compare it to. If I can find an inexpensive magnifier I'll post back.

 

[RBH]

I posted this on 1-7-2012. Didn't get a single reply.

Bruce

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-in-throwers&p=3840925&highlight=#post3840925

. There is still a lot of room for LED tech to grow in the throw department yet

 

[mikesantor]

I have a question. I will admit that I diligently read through approx half of this thread then skimmed the rest. ADD kicked in and I was done for.

Any ways, what is the correlation to diameter of aspheric lens and throw in a aspheric set up?

Reason I ask is I built/had built my first aspheric a few months ago. Knowing full well what LEDs were the best for this I still went away from the grain and tried to get some higher lumens with the SST 90 with a melles griot lens in a 3D Mag. I absolutely LOVE this thing.

My next build is going to be with the XRE or the XPC though I dont know enough about the latter so im still reading on it. I was wondering if it will matter, throw wise, whether I put it in another mag host with another Melles lens or if I put it in a P60 host with Ahortons lens.

 

[Fresh Light]

...

 

[gcbryan]

I have a question. I will admit that I diligently read through approx half of this thread then skimmed the rest. ADD kicked in and I was done for.

Any ways, what is the correlation to diameter of aspheric lens and throw in a aspheric set up?

Reason I ask is I built/had built my first aspheric a few months ago. Knowing full well what LEDs were the best for this I still went away from the grain and tried to get some higher lumens with the SST 90 with a melles griot lens in a 3D Mag. I absolutely LOVE this thing.

My next build is going to be with the XRE or the XPC though I dont know enough about the latter so im still reading on it. I was wondering if it will matter, throw wise, whether I put it in another mag host with another Melles lens or if I put it in a P60 host with Ahortons lens.

I don't know that a Melles lens is or the diameter of a 3D Mag head but the correlation to the diameter of an aspheric lens (or a reflector) to throw is a direct one. Double the diameter and you more or less double the throw.

Unless you have the kind of heatsinking abilities including the techniques used in the DEFT EDC you are going to want to use the XR-E as it can be driven much harder.

 

[Fresh Light]

 

[mohanjude]

Wow that Lambda Varapower Turbo DEFT is good... what cells are you running it?

 

[Fresh Light]

That is with 4 tenergy C cells.

 

[Tatjanamagic]

There's absolute best and that can keep improving as Michael is doing. There is also practical best. Considering price and size and eyesight

I'm amazed at a light that recently came out. It's $14, it's the Smallsun ZY-C10-S. It's a C10 sized light. One 18650, using a XR-E R2 driven at 1A with a 40mm OD head and at least using my inexpensive light meter outside at 10 meters factored back to 1 meter I get 52kcd. The beam for an aspheric is pretty good as well. Better than any of my others.

I'm impressed by the Deereelight DBS-T with turbohead (approximately 52mm I think) and driven at 1.5A. I don't have it but have considered it. It's about $100 I think. It has an output of 90kcd. However that only out throws my smaller $14 light by 33%. At a point good enough and inexpensive enough does the job as well sometimes.

The workmanship on the $14 light is even impressive for that price range. There really isn't any practical use that I have for more throw than that light provides. I'm always interested in something that throws more just out of general interest but getting 52kcs out of a nice looking light that is $14 is appealing and it's hard to justify spending 6 times more for something that throws only marginally better.

So U are telling that this light is better than DEFT EDC? Tell us more... Lens diameter is around 35mm? And EZ1000 XR-E R2 driven at 1A current? 52klux/m throw? Man that is EXTREEME if you are correct?

That would be best thrower in a world only if U can put 1,5 amp EZ900 die inside... In fact it would throw exactly as DBS V3 EZ900...

Sorry I don't believe your numbers... It could have around 30-35k/lux throw...


Edit I google and watched on budgetlight forum... I saw some pictures, and yes this can throw, but it does not throw 52k/luxm...

It could throw around 40 k/lux or slightly more or less depending on lens lottery...

I had first gen of deerelight aspheric and old tiablo A9 aspheric and they throw better than this below(and they are around 55 klux/m)...

Small sun 3m throw

Small sun 10 meters

Also I can add that small sun has decent build quality for $ and probably excellent host for homemade flashlights section.


So friend risk 100$ and buy deerelight aspheric U won't be dissapointed it fries the wall on 10 meters ...That small sun would not be seen beeneth it when beam pointed together at that distance...

But I want to say if U R lucky with dbs U can get ultra clear lenses that will give around 10 000 lux more for sure...

To bad that they are not all identical so u can gain 90-100 klux throw but not really big difference... Some of U will not notice that while I am noticing it...

 

[mikesantor]

I don't know that a Melles lens is or the diameter of a 3D Mag head but the correlation to the diameter of an aspheric lens (or a reflector) to throw is a direct one. Double the diameter and you more or less double the throw.

Unless you have the kind of heatsinking abilities including the techniques used in the DEFT EDC you are going to want to use the XR-E as it can be driven much harder.

Thanks for all the clarifications.

From what i researched, the melles lens are very high quality lenses (ans damn expensive).

So for simplicity's sake, i guess i will go with another 3D mag and the xr-e.

Thanks again for the help.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[Ptery83]

I received the DBS V3 Flashlight (reflector) yesterday with an extension tube and also an aspheric head to be able to switch back and forth. The light worked great out of the package but when I swapped the pill to the aspheric head I could not get power. I later learned that it was b/c I didn't use the spring provided for the aspheric head. While troubleshooting I put the pill back in the reflector head and it powered up fine but then the lens dome covering the led just fell off. Looking at the dome lens (not sure what this is called) it has a rough appearance from where it separated from the emitter. Alan from Dereelight says it should still work fine this way. I'm a flashlight noob, obviously, so any suggestions on using the bare emitter or how that happened? There was no physical damage and I was running 2 cr123 surefire cells in the correct orientation. Thx.

 

[Tatjanamagic]

I received the DBS V3 Flashlight (reflector) yesterday with an extension tube and also an aspheric head to be able to switch back and forth. The light worked great out of the package but when I swapped the pill to the aspheric head I could not get power. I later learned that it was b/c I didn't use the spring provided for the aspheric head. While troubleshooting I put the pill back in the reflector head and it powered up fine but then the lens dome covering the led just fell off. Looking at the dome lens (not sure what this is called) it has a rough appearance from where it separated from the emitter. Alan from Dereelight says it should still work fine this way. I'm a flashlight noob, obviously, so any suggestions on using the bare emitter or how that happened? There was no physical damage and I was running 2 cr123 surefire cells in the correct orientation. Thx.

Here we go again... Watch this:
Did U read this? If U have any problem with your DBS read my post

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...hrowers/page12

Post 6

 

[Ptery83]

Yeah Tat I read that a while back and I have oiled the threads and been very careful tightening every piece. My problem is not with the threads but with the lens covering the emitter coming off....

 

[Rikr]

Wow!!! I want one of those VPT/DEFT lights....That is AWESOME!!!

 

[Fresh Light]

I've gotta say, though, that I prefer the DEFT the way it came from Saab and the VPT the way it came from Lambda. That pic was done w/o using the 2nd optic in the DEFT. I messed with that a little but it'd take some tuning to get it perfect.
Now if the two were ever to collaborate on a project it would be something special. Lambda's got amazing skill with in-house machining and use of huge 6+ oz Cu heatsinks he direct mounts the LEDs to, so no star, not to mention he does his own printed circuits and perfecting the variable control to get the upper limits on pushing the LEDs. Saab couldn't get a reasonable price on or couldn't find the lenses he wanted, so what does he do? He made his own. Not to mention all his work with R&D that is years ahead of anybody else is doing. Not to mention his work with making Carbon Fibre parts and using Beryllium springs and other really cool stuff. Yeah, a 2C VP running a Saab modified LED light system would be about as good as it would get. But, for now a VP SST90-DEFT running at[FONT=verdana, sans-serif] 13.84 Amps is kinda cool. [/FONT]

 

[gcbryan]

According to Saab in the DEFT EDC he uses Ahortons stock lens.

 

[gcbryan]

So U are telling that this light is better than DEFT EDC? Tell us more... Lens diameter is around 35mm? And EZ1000 XR-E R2 driven at 1A current? 52klux/m throw? Man that is EXTREEME if you are correct?

That would be best thrower in a world only if U can put 1,5 amp EZ900 die inside... In fact it would throw exactly as DBS V3 EZ900...

Sorry I don't believe your numbers... It could have around 30-35k/lux throw...


Edit I google and watched on budgetlight forum... I saw some pictures, and yes this can throw, but it does not throw 52k/luxm...

It could throw around 40 k/lux or slightly more or less depending on lens lottery...

I had first gen of deerelight aspheric and old tiablo A9 aspheric and they throw better than this below(and they are around 55 klux/m)...

Small sun 3m throw

Small sun 10 meters

Also I can add that small sun has decent build quality for $ and probably excellent host for homemade flashlights section.


So friend risk 100$ and buy deerelight aspheric U won't be dissapointed it fries the wall on 10 meters ...That small sun would not be seen beeneth it when beam pointed together at that distance...

But I want to say if U R lucky with dbs U can get ultra clear lenses that will give around 10 000 lux more for sure...

To bad that they are not all identical so u can gain 90-100 klux throw but not really big difference... Some of U will not notice that while I am noticing it...

I'm not telling you anything regarding comparing it to the DEFT EDC. The lens in the Smallsun is 25% bigger than in the DEFT EDC.

I also don't have a calibrated light meter so all I can do is tell you what it reads and compare how accurate it might be by other lights I've measured and others have measured as well.

When I've tested my Uniquefire HS-802 which is driven at about 1A I've gotten 33kcd which is about what many others have gotten as well. We know that an aspheric of the same size as a reflector will throw much further. We also know that the HS-802 is basically a C10 size as is the Smallsun. Therefore it should throw further than the 30-35kcd that you have suggested. Nothing "EXTREME" there.

I also have an aspheric that I put in a light that is more or less P60 size but just a bit bigger and with a screw-in pill so the effective aspheric is about 30 mm and this is driven at about .83A with a freshly charged 18650. This light has already measured about 23kcd and did so again tonight as I measured this and the Smallsun again at 10m.

Therefore I have every reason to think that my meter is fairly consistent and is reading in line on other lights with the readings that others on here have gotten as well.

Also keep in mind that my readings are with freshly charged batteries and I'm not allowing them to run for 3 - 5 minutes or any real world useful burn-in time. I'm sure I wouldn't get these numbers after 3-5 minutes. They are what they are.

They are good enough for short periods of time however (which is how I generally use a light like this) for me to hesitate regarding ordering a $100 light that may only throw 33% further. In a contest that wins and is a good number but in the real world it doesn't impress me as much as the numbers I'm getting from the Smallsun considering the price and other factors.

Is it actually 47kcd rather than 52kcd...who knows? It's definitely $14 vs $100 however and it's definitely a bit smaller so all in all pretty impressive.

With great heatsinking running it at 1.5A would eke out a bit more output. Without great heatsinking it would probably have an adverse affect so for something less than the DEFT EDC in headsinking characteristics I think 1A is optimal. Any gains from output from overdriving have to be squared before the throw is increased so that's not really a major factor all things considered IMO.

So to recap the DBS has an optic that is 37% larger and costs about 600 percent more and throws about 33% more...and I still wouldn't mind having one!

 

[saabluster]

I posted this on 1-7-2012. Didn't get a single reply.

Bruce

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-in-throwers&p=3840925&highlight=#post3840925

Sorry about that. I honestly didn't see it. Part of the problem is that those who would know are currently in business and you are essentially asking them to show their cards. Not so sure that is a good idea for most businesses. Of course the other issue is that there really isn't anyone that I know of putting significant R+D into throw technologies. How many companies other than mine do you see trying to actually redesign the components themselves. That is really where future advancement will be seen. I'll give you a little bit of insight into where things can go.

There is a roughly 70% improvement in performance that can be made with current optical(non-LED) and thermal solutions. A further 95% can be achieved via LED package improvements. This is assuming no advancement in LED die tech going forward. I've tried to simplify it as much as possible for you as there are many factors at play in all this that affect those numbers up or down. Beyond what is covered in those numbers are what I see as two major leaps forward that could happen in the throw world. They currently reside in labs only. One is laser based and the other is LED based. That is all I will say about that. Hope that helps answer at least some of your questions.

 

[saabluster]

I'm not telling you anything regarding comparing it to the DEFT EDC. The lens in the Smallsun is 25% bigger than in the DEFT EDC.

I also don't have a calibrated light meter so all I can do is tell you what it reads and compare how accurate it might be by other lights I've measured and others have measured as well.

When I've tested my Uniquefire HS-802 which is driven at about 1A I've gotten 33kcd which is about what many others have gotten as well. We know that an aspheric of the same size as a reflector will throw much further. We also know that the HS-802 is basically a C10 size as is the Smallsun. Therefore it should throw further than the 30-35kcd that you have suggested. Nothing "EXTREME" there.

I also have an aspheric that I put in a light that is more or less P60 size but just a bit bigger and with a screw-in pill so the effective aspheric is about 30 mm and this is driven at about .83A with a freshly charged 18650. This light has already measured about 23kcd and did so again tonight as I measured this and the Smallsun again at 10m.

Therefore I have every reason to think that my meter is fairly consistent and is reading in line on other lights with the readings that others on here have gotten as well.

Also keep in mind that my readings are with freshly charged batteries and I'm not allowing then to run for 3 - 5 minutes or any real world useful burn in time. I'm sure I wouldn't get these numbers after 3-5 minutes. They are what they are.

They are good enough for short periods of time however (which is how I generally use a light like this) for me to hesitate regarding ordering a $100 light that may only throw 33% further. In a contest that wins and is a good number but in the real world it doesn't impress me as much as the numbers I'm getting from the Smallsun considering the price and other factors.

Is it actually 47kcd rather than 52kcd...who knows? It's definitely $14 vs $100 however and it's definitely a bit smaller so all in all pretty impressive.

With great heatsinking running it at 1.5A would eke out a bit more output. Without great heatsinking it would probably have an adverse affect so for something less than the DEFT EDC in headsinking characteristics I think 1A is optimal. Any gains from output from overdriving have to be squared before the throw is increased so that's not really a major factor all things considered IMO.

Your numbers for that light sound right to me given its size. I ordered one last week just to take a look and see what it does. I'll report back my findings.