Designing good daytime rear commuter lights

[BrianMc]

I really like this. Simple, self-contained.

Is there a red single XP-E flashlight like this on the market with a strobe mode?
Easy enough to have a PB Superflash attached to the back of a helmet or something to complement a narrow-beam eyeburner for daylight visibility.

Yeah. It has me thinking too.

DX had a P60 drop in but I don't see it listed now.

The PBSF helmet light is good at night. BUT.. unless my camera completely missed its flashes in the day, it wasn't doing what I hoped. I am running it ON. When 'ON' the whole body is lit long enough to be seen and not just the small flash so it is visually larger fitting 1 What's size matters concept also increasing the amount of light per second.

 

[rice rocket]

I really like this. Simple, self-contained.

Is there a red single XP-E flashlight like this on the market with a strobe mode?
Easy enough to have a PB Superflash attached to the back of a helmet or something to complement a narrow-beam eyeburner for daylight visibility.

DX has a XP-C drop-in for a P60 host, which is ~9 lumens less than the XP-E in top bin.

SKU 26345.

The host I have is a Solarforce L2m, designed for 1x(R)CR123A, but takes 18mm cells, allowing you to use Ultrafire XSL 18350's as well (or you can use the included extension tube and run a full 18650 if you want more runtime).

 

[Offroad'Bent]

DX has a XP-C drop-in for a P60 host, which is ~9 lumens less than the XP-E in top bin.

SKU 26345.

The host I have is a Solarforce L2m, designed for 1x(R)CR123A, but takes 18mm cells, allowing you to use Ultrafire XSL 18350's as well (or you can use the included extension tube and run a full 18650 if you want more runtime).

Wasn't there an "empty" host on DX for these things?

 

[rice rocket]

Yep, in OP and SMO. But for $8.34, that's cheaper than buying the parts separately and soldering them together yourself. But if you really want to...

$2.97, Reflector + "pill": SKU 3257
$3.64, Red Cree LED: SKU 1776
~$3, pick your desired driver

 

[PCC]

It's very impressive how much brighter a larger light source looks at a distance.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I've thought about putting a pair of star-mounted emitters onto a slab of aluminum and using a piece of half inch thick acrylic that has pockets cut into it for the emitters then frosting the outside of the acrylic to disperse the light. This should produce a light with a wide dispersion pattern. Maybe a pair of red SST-90s powered by a TaskLED hipFlex (so that I can vary the output) drawing off of a 14.8VDC Li-Ion battery pack. I need a job that I can bike commute to!

There's a guy who is local to me (Leopold Porkstacker on RoadBikeReview.com's forums) who rides during the day time with a tail light that he made himself with hand tools that uses a pair of cheap Chinese made 10W red LEDs that he bought from eBay. He powers them with a 1A buckpuck and a 14.8V Li-Ion battery. I haven't seen it in person but from the daytime pictures I've seen of it this thing is BRIGHT I think people have said that it will give a Dinotte 400L R a run for the money for less than half the cost.

 

[BrianMc]

That pretty much sums it up for me. .... I need a job that I can bike commute to!

I am leaning that way too.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2623866&postcount=12

I have some cheap (2 for $10) plastic (light) halogen landscape 5" 'headlight bulbs' which put out a band of light hoizontal if mounted as intended. They are useless as light sources with very low lumens per watt, BUT they have those nice prisms at $5 a light. A CuLite (also MTBR DIY lights) might be a decent platform to blast some red LED light in to be spread around. They'd even be aero facing backwards. Two of those will make drivers wonder. Wondering is good you've crossed into the conscious part of the brain!

Start short term with the Census tomorrow. It's been awhile. Bike commute!

There's a guy who is local to me (Leopold Porkstacker ...it will give a Dinotte 400L R a run for the money for less than half the cost.

I'll drop a PM invite to him. Read some of his posts.


NOTE: Added Rice Rocket's DIY to list of options. with approximate cost and lumens. Here.

 

[Offroad'Bent]

Yep, in OP and SMO. But for $8.34, that's cheaper than buying the parts separately and soldering them together yourself. But if you really want to...

$2.97, Reflector + "pill": SKU 3257
$3.64, Red Cree LED: SKU 1776
~$3, pick your desired driver

It's not the P60 I'm thinking about, I'm happy with that drop-in.
It's the flashlight body I'm looking for. Can you steer me to the SKU for a good body for this?
Is it this one here: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24353?

 

[rice rocket]

It's not the P60 I'm thinking about, I'm happy with that drop-in.
It's the flashlight body I'm looking for. Can you steer me to the SKU for a good body for this?
Is it this one here: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24353?

It is that one, but the tail that DX uses is 'counterfeit', FWIW. Not sure what the difference is myself, but that's what I heard on CPF. They're also not bored for 18mm cells, so you'd have to stick to 16340s or CR123As.

If you want just the host, itc_shop has them, be sure to read the description about the 18mm cells though. They're based out of Hong Kong though, so support may take a while if you encounter issues. Sbflashlights has 'em for a little more, but Jason is really responsive and will assist you in usually minutes if you have any issues.

 

[Offroad'Bent]

Sorry to be dense here, but does the light run on one CR123A or two?
I'm not sure of the difference between 16340 and CR123A.

 

[BrianMc]

I googled and found this host just to ballpark price:

http://www.lighthound.com/Solarforce-L2M-Host-for-1x123-or-16340-Black-Type-2-Anodized_p_2982.html

After DM51 ripped out links to sites on one theread, I wasn't sure this was kosher so I did not list. Here it is and DM51 can remove it - after you've read it. I'd guess there are others this was the first I opened. Presume it is right ID as it has the extension available as an associated link.

 

[rice rocket]

Lighthound is a CPF sponsor, I don't think either would mind.

Here's the 18mm version I was talking about: http://www.sbflashlights.com/Solarforce-Lights/Solarforce-2009-L2m-p7.html

What are the changes in the 2009 L2m?

The 1x123 L2m body is bored to 18mm, meaning it can fit 18mm cells (18650 w/ ECR extender)

A L2-ECR, 1xCR123 extension tube is included for use w/ 18650 cells.

Host includes:
Solarforce L2-CH Tactical Head
Solarforce Battery Tube, fits 1x18650, 2xCR123, 2xRCR123
Solarforce L2-S1 Reverse Click Tailcap
L2-ECR Extension tube for 18650

 

[rice rocket]

The PBSF helmet light is good at night. BUT.. unless my camera completely missed its flashes in the day, it wasn't doing what I hoped. I am running it ON. When 'ON' the whole body is lit long enough to be seen and not just the small flash so it is visually larger fitting 1 What's size matters concept also increasing the amount of light per second.

Backtracking on this thread a little...

So you're saying you'd rather have it solidly on than flash? I disagree with this notion as being more visible; humans (and all animals) notice motion a lot better than just static images. "Size" does matter, but I'd reckon the same size, flashing, would be more eyecatching.

Actually, more annoying is as well. My friend runs both a PB Superflash and a PB Spok, which is a single 5mm flasher. The visual dissonance created by a non-synchronized, non-sequential lighting up of the lights drew my attention involuntarily to his backside.

 

[BrianMc]

I'd reckon the same size, flashing, would be more eyecatching.

In theory yes. IF it IS actually the same size when it flashes for long enough to be seen that size. In bright sunlight I think that flash is so short and the light isn't fully lit long enough to register "full size" on our retinas. Flash/Motion = attention? Definitely. But remember we are like the video camera: 30 frames per second look continuous to us. I think in daylight that energy saving pulse is a tad too short to work well. I also think the short duration of the on may reduce the apparent size of the light in the day. You don't get the same residual retinal imaging in the day.

Also, the main part of the flash is quite directional hard to aim it for short and tall vehicles, ones straight behind, those toward the centerline of a wide lane about to pass, etc. ON solid the aiming isn't as critical the whole thing is glowing.

Actually, more annoying is as well. My friend runs both a PB Superflash and a PB Spok, which is a single 5mm flasher. The visual dissonance created by a non-synchronized, non-sequential lighting up of the lights drew my attention involuntarily to his backside.

I won't say a word. Just keep your feminine side to yourself, buster!

I am ALL for annoying. I found the Swerves double dance really bugged me. I hated/liked it. Latent epilepsy? But the video of the PBST and the PTS indicated the PTS was tame. So the camera doesn't do either justice in flash mode IMHO. Drivers on the other hand, claimed not to have seen me with three PBSF's! I don't think there is a Driving School for the Blind here. The ANSI vest has been a good move. So I am not as concerned about not being seen at all. Too bad there wasn't a way to increase the on duty by double and leave the flash pattern otherwise intact. Each of us bets our lives and you gotta do what you gotta do until we come up with something better.

Maybe I need to track down a moderatelly slow motion/high speed camera to rent to ferret this out. PB has had to have made SOME money on SBSF's maybe they would weigh in?

 

[pe2er]

... From what I read here, they (the 90mm brakes) are worth the extra cost.

Some new developments on the SA Brakes...
Initially, the difference in stopping distance between the small and large drums was 5-6 meters. After finding this difference, he went to velomobiel.nl to install bigger brake drums. They found out that there was a defect in his (small) drum brakes. One of the brake pads (that normally provides 80% of the braking action) did not fit properly. After repair, the difference in brake distance from 34km/h reduced to only one meter. See the very scientific approach to brake distance measurement here.

 

[rice rocket]

Maybe I need to track down a moderatelly slow motion/high speed camera to rent to ferret this out. PB has had to have made SOME money on SBSF's maybe they would weigh in?

You should probably just dress up a dummy on a propped up bike, and drive past it a couple times and see for yourself.

 

[pe2er]

... I also think the short duration of the on may reduce the apparent size of the light in the day. You don't get the same residual retinal imaging in the day.

Also, the main part of the flash is quite directional hard to aim it for short and tall vehicles, ones straight behind, those toward the centerline of a wide lane about to pass, etc. ON solid the aiming isn't as critical the whole thing is glowing.

Here is a short comparison of the PBSF with the 1 Watt DX spotlight in daylight. PBSF on continuous and flashing. The camera is slightly offset to the left side. I Move around the PBSF to show the relatively narrow beam it casts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzbMk6-mK3Y

 

[BrianMc]

You should probably just dress up a dummy on a propped up bike, and drive past it a couple times and see for yourself.

In the devil made me do it Department :devil: :

Smart answer 1: I found it hard to be on the bike and driving by at the same time. OH! you mean a DIFFERENT dummy!

Smart answer 2: I tried that, but he got run over! :sick2: :mecry:

A tricky thing to set up. I didn't think I could find safe spots to video in the first place. Leaving the camera unattended, traffic screwing it up, that sort of thing. I hit on taping to AVOID a drive by and a mannekin. A Crash test dummy like Buster from Mythbusters, is out of my price range. A substitute strong enough to wear a helmet and vest on the bike standing in the middle of a street while you approach from different angles and maybe in different height vehicles is not that easy.

BUT! :thinking:

I don't NEED no stinkin' dummy inflatable or otherwise.

No, I only need the helmet at head height above the saddle, but not necessarily EXACTLY above the saddle. In can be on a stand that holds the bike upright, which is another issue. The ANSI vest on a hanger hung below the helmet maybe with jacket and a pillow inside the jacket to round the vest out a little. I can try different arrangements to get the best by my eyes. I was VERY lucky to hit on the school drive. All but unused on some evenings and weekends. Nice and wide. :thumbsup:

Some young drivers might still think it funny to hit the lighted bike standing in the street, though. Maybe a concrete block with warning markings either side to remove their sump should they act on thoughts of that sort. :shakehead

I can get ready tonight but it will be tomorrow night, soonest.

 

[BrianMc]

Some new developments on the SA Brakes... After repair, the difference in brake distance from 34km/h reduced to only one meter.

So when COLD the difference is minimal on small wheels.

Untested and no conclusions possible:
1. After repeated stops or slowing on a long descent
- The larger more massive brakes should both hold more heat and cool better = perform better.

You have no long downhills. You may not have any anticipated multiple close together stops to heat brakes up. In which case you won't gain much.

2. On larger wheels turning at fewer RPM, the increased lever arm should allow more stopping power. The 70 mm work great on 20" wheels. On 700C, not very well by the reports I have heard. One brief ride of a bike from the showroom by a person with experience of the 70 mmm said it was an improvement. Not very scientific.

 

[BrianMc]

Here is a short comparison of the PBSF with the 1 Watt DX spotlight in daylight.

My first impression (other than the known beaminess), is that enlarged with two 1/2 watt lower LED's and a 1-3 Watt main LED, and twice the diameter and more floody main lens, and we'd have what we are looking for in a day blinkie. Oh, and a lower power night mode. Ultraflash, Superflashes bigger brother. Also Ultraflash Stealth for those who want a to match their carbon fiber bits. Larger, and hungrier, it could run two AA's.

Planet Bike can PM me here to ask me to evaluate a prototype. Some sacrifices have to be made in the scientific pursuit of safer cycling! :laughing:

What they look like up close isn't necessarily what a driver sees approaching them in bright sun. Since my movie camera is not up to the task, I must recruit the human eyeball. I might talk Kathryn into helping as she has a vested interest in my hide.

I would like to make a record of what I (we) see driving by a lights on a static bike with vest and helmet arranged similar to a rider. Maybe if I took a cell phone pic at every 50 ft (15 m) to mate with my comments at each distance, something could be learned.

I can mass three SBSF's side by side. If they have slightly different pulse rates they will go in and out of synchrony. Might shed light on the size/blinking issue and solid on. I can also arrange a fan of three: one centered straight back, one aimed toward the center line and the other in between. The outer at 45 , 30, 22.5 degrees, and 15 degrees to determine which startegy works best.

Any other ideas to add to the testing?

 

[Offroad'Bent]

Lighthound is a CPF sponsor, I don't think either would mind.

Here's the 18mm version I was talking about: http://www.sbflashlights.com/Solarforce-Lights/Solarforce-2009-L2m-p7.html

OK, ordered the drop-in, host and rechargeable CR123As.
I'll report back how it compares with the Superflash and Mars 4.0.