archimedes
Flashaholic
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Sold/Expired FS : Mac's 2x18350 Ti/Da Tri-EDC -New Pics-
- Thread starter grayhighh
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stateoftheart
Enlightened
There's no aluminium in this thread or subject topic its exotic materials. Think your in the wrong place 
Always thought he used good old 6Al4V for his Ti hosts. I would be gobsmacked if he used the cheaper grade 2. Shame he's not here to chime in.
Good few bumps for Grayhigh anyway and hope he's having a good trip and doesn't forget to contact me when he's back
Always thought he used good old 6Al4V for his Ti hosts. I would be gobsmacked if he used the cheaper grade 2. Shame he's not here to chime in.
Good few bumps for Grayhigh anyway and hope he's having a good trip and doesn't forget to contact me when he's back
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archimedes
Flashaholic
Actually this is a sales thread, 6 months stale, and OT ... so I'll leave you to it.
EDIT - looks like Grade 5 for some Macs, and Grade 2 for the Knurly.
EDIT - looks like Grade 5 for some Macs, and Grade 2 for the Knurly.
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stateoftheart
Enlightened
Well I think its still for sale guys and with the interest in Macs at the moment I thought I'd high five it..
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3.9 and 15 what? W/m•K? BTU/hr•ft•F?
It would appear that you have your units crossed. Grade 5 (6Al4V) Ti has always been ~7 W/m•K. Damasteel's data sheet shows ~15 W/m•K. And CP titanium is about 20-22 W/m•K...
Don't forget about specific heat; Grade 5 is about 100 J/kg•K higher than Damasteel.
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stateoftheart
Enlightened
Hey up I mentioned thermal conductivity the units being old school that is in Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft.
It depends on the manufacturer of the grade 5 but a thermal conductivity of 7 would amaze me. You must be referring to 7 as in the new SI units but its still high.
Check the ASTM international standards. Thermal conductivity always been 3.9 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft. If he used low alloy damasteel we are looking at 25 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft so I was being conservative.
http://www.titaniumprocessingcenter.com/grades/grade5.htm
http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/6-4.asp
And on damasteel your getting your units mixed up (with the older SI units) for stainless non low alloy damasteel we get around 15 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft as I originally stated. In your preferred units this corresponds to 25 W/m•K not 15 W/m•K as you say. Please see below data sheet which furnishes us with both values for clarity.
http://www.tigheknives.com/pdf/926-968-Datasheet.pdf
Specific heat would be working in the favour of damasteel if we are talking per kg (new SI units) as the head is quite a bit denser (47% denser in fact) for damasteel I'll have you know. I don't want to do a calculation but I'm sure for a like for like damasteel and ti head we would get somewhere in the region of 20% better specific heat ratio using damasteel.
Today has been a nice lesson as the head could well be well over 6 times as thermally conductive as Grade 5 ti. But to put it in simple terms its massively better at moving the heat away from the driver/led and into your hand, air and the body of the light. It is also able to store around 20% more heat(same as if the comparative ti head were 20% bigger) which will again further help with the overall thermal capacity of the light.
Are we in agreement that all the Ti Macs Tri EDCs and SST-50s were in fact grade 5?
Sounds that good I'm seriously thinking of buying it
It depends on the manufacturer of the grade 5 but a thermal conductivity of 7 would amaze me. You must be referring to 7 as in the new SI units but its still high.
Check the ASTM international standards. Thermal conductivity always been 3.9 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft. If he used low alloy damasteel we are looking at 25 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft so I was being conservative.
http://www.titaniumprocessingcenter.com/grades/grade5.htm
http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/6-4.asp
And on damasteel your getting your units mixed up (with the older SI units) for stainless non low alloy damasteel we get around 15 Btu/hr/sq. ft./F/ft as I originally stated. In your preferred units this corresponds to 25 W/m•K not 15 W/m•K as you say. Please see below data sheet which furnishes us with both values for clarity.
http://www.tigheknives.com/pdf/926-968-Datasheet.pdf
Specific heat would be working in the favour of damasteel if we are talking per kg (new SI units) as the head is quite a bit denser (47% denser in fact) for damasteel I'll have you know. I don't want to do a calculation but I'm sure for a like for like damasteel and ti head we would get somewhere in the region of 20% better specific heat ratio using damasteel.
Today has been a nice lesson as the head could well be well over 6 times as thermally conductive as Grade 5 ti. But to put it in simple terms its massively better at moving the heat away from the driver/led and into your hand, air and the body of the light. It is also able to store around 20% more heat(same as if the comparative ti head were 20% bigger) which will again further help with the overall thermal capacity of the light.
Are we in agreement that all the Ti Macs Tri EDCs and SST-50s were in fact grade 5?
Sounds that good I'm seriously thinking of buying it
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You originally listed the properties without units which is why I replied. I've used SI for all my units but they are easily converted.
I am also familiar with the ASTM B348 physical properties for grade 5 titanium. Temperature aside, thermal conductivity is not absolute. Separate labs regularly get different results. This is partly related to purity and partly because of acceptable error. The approximate range for grade 5 Ti is 6.7-7.2 W/(m·K). ATI Metals, who are a huge US Department of Defense supplier of titanium alloy, lists their lab results as 6.9 W/(m·K) at 0 degrees F and slightly higher at room temperature, ~7.2 W/(m·K). I think we'll both agree that the thermal conductivity of grade 5 is relatively low compared to aluminum or copper.
It seems like the only thing we disagree on are the values for the damascus. As far as I know, Mac only used Chad Nichols Stainless Steel Damascus and not the barrel steel you linked (which is for rifles by the way). Since I couldn't find a datasheet for the Nichols I substituted a similar alloy, Damasteel's martensitic stainless damacus. Thermal conductivity is only 15 W/(m·K). Depending on who's correct, the damascus could be anywhere from 15-43 W/(m·K). The difference between 7 and 15 isn't that great for a flashlight, but 43 and 7 is a different matter.
I don't feel like calculating the specific heat ratio either and see no point to continuing this, especially in someone else's sale thread. Let's call it a day, shall we?
Personally, I wouldn't use either of the damascus' over titanium based on thermal properties alone. Aluminum or copper would make a much more significant difference. Regardless, this light is gorgeous and I think that's what counts here. :thumbsup:
I am also familiar with the ASTM B348 physical properties for grade 5 titanium. Temperature aside, thermal conductivity is not absolute. Separate labs regularly get different results. This is partly related to purity and partly because of acceptable error. The approximate range for grade 5 Ti is 6.7-7.2 W/(m·K). ATI Metals, who are a huge US Department of Defense supplier of titanium alloy, lists their lab results as 6.9 W/(m·K) at 0 degrees F and slightly higher at room temperature, ~7.2 W/(m·K). I think we'll both agree that the thermal conductivity of grade 5 is relatively low compared to aluminum or copper.
It seems like the only thing we disagree on are the values for the damascus. As far as I know, Mac only used Chad Nichols Stainless Steel Damascus and not the barrel steel you linked (which is for rifles by the way). Since I couldn't find a datasheet for the Nichols I substituted a similar alloy, Damasteel's martensitic stainless damacus. Thermal conductivity is only 15 W/(m·K). Depending on who's correct, the damascus could be anywhere from 15-43 W/(m·K). The difference between 7 and 15 isn't that great for a flashlight, but 43 and 7 is a different matter.
I don't feel like calculating the specific heat ratio either and see no point to continuing this, especially in someone else's sale thread. Let's call it a day, shall we?
Personally, I wouldn't use either of the damascus' over titanium based on thermal properties alone. Aluminum or copper would make a much more significant difference. Regardless, this light is gorgeous and I think that's what counts here. :thumbsup:
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stateoftheart
Enlightened
Yep ok let the sale roll on. Think we have helped ascertain that by having a Damascus head the light is awesome in more ways than one which should help it disappear quicker.
It looks better with the Damascus head on a Ti body, a copper or brass head would not suit the ti body as much. Its probably well balanced with the heavier head and longer lighter body too.
This is from Brian Tighe Knifes though just confirming they do use the barrel damasteel I referred to above...the martenistic steel you mentioned seems to be of a different quality.
http://www.tigheknives.com/pdf/926-968-Datasheet.pdf
It looks better with the Damascus head on a Ti body, a copper or brass head would not suit the ti body as much. Its probably well balanced with the heavier head and longer lighter body too.
This is from Brian Tighe Knifes though just confirming they do use the barrel damasteel I referred to above...the martenistic steel you mentioned seems to be of a different quality.
http://www.tigheknives.com/pdf/926-968-Datasheet.pdf
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archimedes
Flashaholic
Would be sorta funny if @grayhighh stopped by soon to post that this might've sold elsewhere several months ago ....
stateoftheart
Enlightened
I'd laugh too but I think the chance is slim unless he has changed his mind, but he has not withdrawn it yet....
Nevertheless it serves as both a bump and lesson on the physics of CPF exotic lights.
Nevertheless it serves as both a bump and lesson on the physics of CPF exotic lights.
bubble
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2013
- Messages
- 571
Some of us are still waiting for an answer..
I said a long time ago I would take it.. or just a part of it and another member was interested in the body..
stateoftheart
Enlightened
Its not mentioned he would split I'm sure if you bought the whole thing as in I'll take it it would be a go.
grayhighh
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
- Messages
- 729
I am really sorry that I wasn't able to reply to some private messages. I wasn't home for the last 6 months. This item is now withdraw.
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