Highest capacity AAA NiMH batteries currently available?

[WalkIntoTheLight]

As I consider those run times and if in an emergency, the differences are significant. It would not be so important if the Eneloops would be usable for several years longer, but the need would be for max run times now.

The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.

So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.

 

[JerryM]

I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
Sipik 68 clones. AA

After one week the times were.
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 3min
Eneloop 1hr 32min

After one month
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 5min
Eneloop 1hr 58min

The second Eneloop was better than the first, but as for the Tenergy self discharging I did not find it so. Obviously they had not.

There seems to be a myth surrounding Eneloop batteries that all others are junk, but my own experience disputes that. I will not deny that Eneloops are a proven commodity. I don't know how long the other brands will last in terms of years of usefulness, and I have no dog in the fight. But when questions are posed regarding AAA and AA batteries the responses are normally don't bother with the junk, just get Eneloops. However, even if the Eneloops will outlast others by a goodly amount of time there is a legitimate question as to whether they perform so much better that they are worth the extra costs.
When Tenergy batteries cost around $1.75 each and Eneloops from $3 - to as much as $5 each it makes sense to determine if you are getting your money's worth. So far in my view the Eneloops fall short when compared with Tenergy Premiums or Centuras. Time will tell whether I am mistaken or not for my use. I have not found the Tenergy Blue batteries as good as the other Tenergys.

So I would ask whether or not there have been tests that compare Eneloops with other brands in terms of run time and self discharge rates in actual lights over periods of time? After all isn't that the purpose of batteries?

As for comparing them after several months of not used at some point that is a non-issue as I would not think of going on a long hiking trip with months old batteries not charged. I suspect you would not either. As for emergencies I prefer C and D cells in the car or at home for long run times.

FWIW I have more Eneloops than I will need for a long time, but became interested in other batteries when those other brands were called junk.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Grijon]

The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.

So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.

+1

 

[Grijon]

I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
Sipik 68 clones. AA

After one week the times were.
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 3min
Eneloop 1hr 32min

After one month
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 5min
Eneloop 1hr 58min

The second Eneloop was better than the first, but as for the Tenergy self discharging I did not find it so. Obviously they had not.

I'm truly sorry for how harsh this sounds and I'm not trying to be a jerk, Jerry, but as you did not use the same batteries under the same conditions, I'm sorry to say that this 'test' is purely anecdotal - meaning that it happened. It does not show anything about the batteries themselves.

Nonetheless, it's always fun to see this sort of stuff and I thank you for sharing!

 

[Grijon]

Please understand that this is not meant as an argument, we will each take his choice, but there is a lot of talk about emergencies, and the need for batteries. I have been thinking about when I had an emergency that I needed a flashlight. Really I do not remember when I had such an emergency that I needed a lot of batteries. When I have experienced power outages I do have some cheap 6-9 led lights, but if the weather is the problem I have a supply of bottled gas and lanterns from my camping days. But AA flashlights would not do all that much except for a short time, and maybe a number of times.
A 2-3 cell Maglite has a long burn time and I have not had a situation when I depleted the batteries.

So my question, again not to argue, is what kind of emergencies do you or others experience where you need a supply of AA or AAA or other batteries and also need batteries that have been on the shelf several years?

EDIT To look at one issue-run times.

Maybe another post would be better, however, as I considered run times I thought I would make this observation in reply to a preference for longevity to run times.

As I looked at run times comparing batteries, I do not think that run times are so insignificant. Here are some results.
Fenix LD01 Mid level.
Tenergy Premium 3 hrs 51 min.
Eneloop 3 hrs 0 min

Hi mode
Tenergy Premium 2 hrs 20 min
Eneloop 1 hr 52 min

Terralux 100 Low mode 50 lum
Eneloop 9 hrs 25 min
Tenergy Prem 12 hrs 9 min

4 Sevens mini 1 AA med mode
Eneloop 6 hrs 26 min
Tenergy Prem 7 hrs 49 min

As I consider those run times and if in an emergency, the differences are significant. It would not be so important if the Eneloops would be usable for several years longer, but the need would be for max run times now.


Thanks, Jerry

I have 5 AA flashlights and the 2 single-AA's low runtimes are rated for 40 hours at 8 lumens. My 2xAA E25 is rated 72 hours at 8 lumens. My 4xAA LD41 is rated for 150 hours at 10 lumens. 8xAA TK41 rated for 240 at 15 lumens. Even if all of these runtime ratings are reduced by 50% due to lower-capacity batteries not having been charged in a long time, that's still a lot of emergency lighting!

 

[chillinn]

The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.

I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year?


That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks." Its batteries that are old, have been abused, or sat too long, or Energizer rechargeables (little joke, heh) with no charge that would display that.


High-self discharge (HSD) batteries, like my rayovac 600mah AAAs, still have a decent charge after 4 weeks (tested!). That's plenty for HSD. Eneloops are not the only decent batteries, and Sanyo is not the only company that knows how to make a good battery. If you don't use your batteries, then it is throwing money away.


idk, I guess I have about 30 something... still collecting... but I'm getting close to the last battery I'll buy for a long long time. I use them all. I start at number 1, use that, move on to 2, 1 goes in the charger, use 2, move on to 3, etc. The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now.


If these EBLs don't work out... its $6 worth of 4 batteries. Tragic, no doubt, my folly for buying crap, but if they last half as long as a pack of Imedions or a fifth as far as a pack of the outrageously expensive Eneloops brand, then they are, in fact, a better deal, period.


Granted, Eneloops have other advantages besides LSD, like resiliance, consistency. They better. They cost more, sometimes, than their weight in silver (it seems like)! My rayovac 600mah HSD batteries that I got 6AAA, 2AA AND the dumb charger for $5 are kicking their butt... I have a couple hinky duraloops... all my duraloops are less than 2 months old. I got those Rayovacs Spring 2014, and charge them every single day, and use them first. 2 are showing capacity degridation. My experience is anacdotal, but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez!

So if you don't mind paying too much, and never seeing the cost value of what you paid for, but are happy to know you have the very very very best, by all means, stock up on Eneloops, charge them up, put them in your storage bunker, and we know they'll still have charge in 8 months. But why even mess with that if you care about something working in 8 months... just get L91/L92... then you KNOW it will work in 5 years.

---
Edit: WalkIntoTheLight, as far as life in this United States goes, I realize batteries are a small thing for most... throwing down a 20 every so often, you can collect a lot of eneloops, and never worry much about the money over time. Wasn't always so, but my economy is pretty tight for the time being, ug, near college student level subsistence, so some weeks, a pack of eneloops can break me. But I can see my rant won't make much sense to anyone that has a stable personal economy... its a friggen pack of batteries, not a house. If only I had toilet trained my cats, I'd have more McGizmo's than anyone.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

If you're comparing run-times of lights using different battery types, make sure the light is properly regulated to give you a flat discharge curve regardless of the battery voltage. Check selfbuilt's reviews to see his discharge curves.

Most quality lights will give you regulated flat discharge curve. Cheap lights might not be regulated at all, and a battery that puts out a lower voltage may run longer, even though it has less energy. And some manufacturers (Maglite is the worst offender) intentionally regulate their lights horribly, just to give impressive numbers on the FL1 specs.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year?

I'm a bit of an Eneloop collector (yes I admit it's a sickness), so I have far more Eneloops than I can use at one time. So, why not charge them up before I put them away for a few years? They retain 70% charge after 5 years, so I like the fact that I can take them out of storage and use them right away. I only charge the ones I've used; those that are still in their packaging I normally use right out of the box without charging.

Basically, they're a replacement for alkalines, so I want them charged and ready-to-use like alkalines.

As for my non-Eneloops (cells I bought before 2006), I do charge them up about once or twice a year, and it does take several days using all my chargers to do this. I should probably just throw them away, as I don't use many of them, but I hate to throw away batteries that are still able to hold a charge. From what I understand, you have to cycle non-LSD cells or they could become unrecoverable.

That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks."

True, but I've owned "cutting edge" high-capacity cells that were like that. They were great when I bought them, but only lasted a year or two before they were crap.

Most non-LSD cells will hold a reasonable charge for about 6 months.

The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now.

I use Eneloops in everything that can take alkalines. In things like remote controls and clocks, this means charging them up maybe once every couple of years. I couldn't use non-LSD cells in that stuff.

If these EBLs don't work out... its $6 worth of 4 batteries. Tragic, no doubt, my folly for buying crap, but if they last half as long as a pack of Imedions or a fifth as far as a pack of the outrageously expensive Eneloops brand, then they are, in fact, a better deal, period.

Nothing wrong with cheap cells, as long as you don't plan to keep them very long. My issue with cheap cells is you never know when they go bad, and suddenly you're stuck with a dead battery in your device because you didn't realize its capacity was getting bad.

but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez!

That's what the Chinese Eneloops are doing!

 

[MidnightDistortions]

The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.

So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.

I enjoy the LSD technology and Eneloop Pros (or the Duraloops) are good enough for emergencies. You might have to recharge them a bit more often than regular Eneloops, but so far the Duraloops i have function like regular Eneloops, not like the Energizers which needed to be refreshed every year though they are not bad batteries either.

Please understand that this is not meant as an argument, we will each take his choice, but there is a lot of talk about emergencies, and the need for batteries. I have been thinking about when I had an emergency that I needed a flashlight. Really I do not remember when I had such an emergency that I needed a lot of batteries. When I have experienced power outages I do have some cheap 6-9 led lights, but if the weather is the problem I have a supply of bottled gas and lanterns from my camping days. But AA flashlights would not do all that much except for a short time, and maybe a number of times.
A 2-3 cell Maglite has a long burn time and I have not had a situation when I depleted the batteries.

So my question, again not to argue, is what kind of emergencies do you or others experience where you need a supply of AA or AAA or other batteries and also need batteries that have been on the shelf several years?

EDIT To look at one issue-run times.

Maybe another post would be better, however, as I considered run times I thought I would make this observation in reply to a preference for longevity to run times.

As I looked at run times comparing batteries, I do not think that run times are so insignificant. Here are some results.
Fenix LD01 Mid level.
Tenergy Premium 3 hrs 51 min.
Eneloop 3 hrs 0 min

Hi mode
Tenergy Premium 2 hrs 20 min
Eneloop 1 hr 52 min

Terralux 100 Low mode 50 lum
Eneloop 9 hrs 25 min
Tenergy Prem 12 hrs 9 min

4 Sevens mini 1 AA med mode
Eneloop 6 hrs 26 min
Tenergy Prem 7 hrs 49 min

As I consider those run times and if in an emergency, the differences are significant. It would not be so important if the Eneloops would be usable for several years longer, but the need would be for max run times now.


Thanks, Jerry

I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
Sipik 68 clones. AA

After one week the times were.
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 3min
Eneloop 1hr 32min

After one month
Hi Tenergy Prem 2hr 5min
Eneloop 1hr 58min

The second Eneloop was better than the first, but as for the Tenergy self discharging I did not find it so. Obviously they had not.

There seems to be a myth surrounding Eneloop batteries that all others are junk, but my own experience disputes that. I will not deny that Eneloops are a proven commodity. I don't know how long the other brands will last in terms of years of usefulness, and I have no dog in the fight. But when questions are posed regarding AAA and AA batteries the responses are normally don't bother with the junk, just get Eneloops. However, even if the Eneloops will outlast others by a goodly amount of time there is a legitimate question as to whether they perform so much better that they are worth the extra costs.
When Tenergy batteries cost around $1.75 each and Eneloops from $3 - to as much as $5 each it makes sense to determine if you are getting your money's worth. So far in my view the Eneloops fall short when compared with Tenergy Premiums or Centuras. Time will tell whether I am mistaken or not for my use. I have not found the Tenergy Blue batteries as good as the other Tenergys.

So I would ask whether or not there have been tests that compare Eneloops with other brands in terms of run time and self discharge rates in actual lights over periods of time? After all isn't that the purpose of batteries?

As for comparing them after several months of not used at some point that is a non-issue as I would not think of going on a long hiking trip with months old batteries not charged. I suspect you would not either. As for emergencies I prefer C and D cells in the car or at home for long run times.

FWIW I have more Eneloops than I will need for a long time, but became interested in other batteries when those other brands were called junk.

Regards,
Jerry

Tenergy is not a bad brand though i only have the 9volts which seem to be holding their charge over 3 months after refreshing them. I can't speak to whether all batteries are like this but Eneloops are pretty much the only ones i ran into that didn't require refreshing, at least within the first 3 years. They are like any other NiMH battery and can degrade as well, some Eneloop users have ran into 'crap' Eneloops but i suppose that is mainly due to charging/discharging habits.

As for the reason i prefer Eneloops/Eneloop Pros over any other NiMH battery is the idea they hold their charge longer than most others and is pretty much like expecting a flashlight to work over several months of just sitting there. I have noticed too, that Eneloops will still be charged several months of not being used. In fact the unused cells which were manufactured last May still work right out of the box, never been charged or used. That is among one of the main reason Eneloops gets so much high praise. Under testing they might not last as long as high capacity cells, but at least they will still carry a charge when you need them and they'll still function in 5 years, and possibly longer. If your high capacity cells last that long then that's a good thing. 500 cycles seem decent enough for me for emergency use and i use regular Eneloops as a basic workhorse. If i don't need to change the batteries out within one use then that's all i need. I don't really mind charging batteries at the end of the night or every other night but if i find myself having to replace batteries mid use all the time then i would need to use a higher capacity battery. Not arguing here, just having a nice discussion about battery usage and i prefer to maximise the lifespan of my batteries so i can get 7+ years out of them before they need to go into recycling. Heck i use 10+ old rechargeables for low drain devices.

I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year?

I generally only buy enough rechargeable NiMHs that will get me through 7+ years. Having a few extra cells for emergency usage isn't really a bad idea and i check them yearly, every 6 months when they get older and check them more frequent as they age.

That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks." Its batteries that are old, have been abused, or sat too long, or Energizer rechargeables (little joke, heh) with no charge that would display that.

That was a definite case with the older Energizer cells, newer ones are good for a couple months at least, i haven't tested their charge retention yet mostly because they get used.

High-self discharge (HSD) batteries, like my rayovac 600mah AAAs, still have a decent charge after 4 weeks (tested!). That's plenty for HSD. Eneloops are not the only decent batteries, and Sanyo is not the only company that knows how to make a good battery. If you don't use your batteries, then it is throwing money away.

This kinda ties into your first part of your post. Some people do need to leave a flashlight in their car or the garage or buy enough batteries to be used in any kind of situation. I make sure i have some charged batteries ready to go in an emergency and 'using' them could actually cause having dead batteries when you need them charged. I only got 1 charging unit plus i got an Eneloop charger. I need to get a few more or an 8 cell charger and some solar power going for my battery pack, plus another charger that will be my individual solar battery charger. You never know what might happen and when camping it would be much easier to carry a few extra batteries but a charger as well. Plus when batteries are crap the older ones get pushed into use and then it's buying an extra set for emergency use so you got fresh batteries for emergencies. Even though some HSD cells can last up to several months most of them tend to lose their maximum capacity over the years.

idk, I guess I have about 30 something... still collecting... but I'm getting close to the last battery I'll buy for a long long time. I use them all. I start at number 1, use that, move on to 2, 1 goes in the charger, use 2, move on to 3, etc. The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now.

That's not really a bad idea, except i use Eneloops in more than just flashlights, so i prefer keeping my battery analyzer as free as possible so usually when my main Eneloops go out i have a charged set of older, crap HSD batteries ready to go and generally i just swap them out when the batteries get low, usually though i'll charge the Eneloops before they are fully drained though. 1.18-1.24 volts is usually when i start recharging them.

Granted, Eneloops have other advantages besides LSD, like resiliance, consistency. They better. They cost more, sometimes, than their weight in silver (it seems like)! My rayovac 600mah HSD batteries that I got 6AAA, 2AA AND the dumb charger for $5 are kicking their butt... I have a couple hinky duraloops... all my duraloops are less than 2 months old. I got those Rayovacs Spring 2014, and charge them every single day, and use them first. 2 are showing capacity degridation. My experience is anacdotal, but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez!

Isn't that the whole point though, we want to support and keep interest in Eneloops so Panasonic will continue producing them, though that might be the reason we have Chinese Eneloops floating around. We love the quality of them and i'll buy other brands as well just to try them out but it's the fact that they work after 8 months or 2 years in storage! I don't think the prices are that bad, for Eneloops they're worth it and i don't think people buy 100s of them just to keep them in storage, i couldn't imagine people buying batteries just to keep them in storage either, but they are designed to work in storage so there's no reason to buy some for that reason. People stock up on alkalines and can food too for storage, why not Eneloops?


Anyway wow, lots of discussion about this but that's great. I don't have an overabundance of Eneloops or NiMHs laying around. I use around 80% of them, 40% of them are Eneloops, i know my crap cells are on their way out, in fact i have a set of Energizers that i used in a light where one of the batteries is under 30% so it's just dragging the rest of them down but the rest of them are no higher then 55% anyways so those will just get used in my PC mouse/remotes and then more of my Eneloops will be put into service so it's not like i bought them to never be used, i knew some of my older cells were on their way out so i got a 16 pack of Eneloops for that reason. I also got a pack of Duracells, got some Goal Zero batteries and a set of Energizers as well which is already being used. That's just for my AA stock, my AAA stock are all crap batteries but most of them are used in low drain devices and they average around 70% capacity so i don't have any AAA Eneloops, plus i'm getting the Pros for my AAA flashlights in the future. I didn't want to get new AAA cells right away though since i had to get new AA batteries since all my crap cells were only 50% capacity.

 

[JerryM]

I'm truly sorry for how harsh this sounds and I'm not trying to be a jerk, Jerry, but as you did not use the same batteries under the same conditions, I'm sorry to say that this 'test' is purely anecdotal - meaning that it happened. It does not show anything about the batteries themselves.

Nonetheless, it's always fun to see this sort of stuff and I thank you for sharing!

Hi Grihhon,
I did not take it in a negative way. No problems, and we are just trying to learn explore and enjoy the hobby, which is useful, and fun at times,

I agree my test is not significant from the point of statistics. It was not intended to be. However, it does show that on that day with those lights and batteries the Tenergys outperformed the Eneloops. That cannot be reasonably disputed, and was in response to comments that the Tenergys might do well when freshly charged, but in a week or a month they would be discharged to a much larger extent than Eneloops. That has proven to be incorrect in my own trials of several lights, AA and AAA, and with different batteries. Such tests do in fact show something about the batteries. Not to a designer, but to a person wondering what to buy to get the best bang for the buck. To a newby who asks what to buy in batteries for his lights it is not so simple to say that everything except Eneloops are junk. I dispute that with some information from some tests that give info as to how long will a certain battery lasts in my flashlights. At the same price I would probably buy Eneloops, and have plenty, but they have priced themselves out of my market until I can determine that they are worth twice or more than Tenergys which have performed better for me. I have a couple more batteries that have not been charged for almost two months, and I will run my unscientific tests on them when they sit idle a bit longer.

I realize that one can do all sorts of experiments that are very useful. I very much appreciate those efforts and find the interesting. However, some of us, are not so interested in at what point a battery reaches 50% of capacity at 1 amp as we are in what they cost and how they perform in our lights. That is my own focus. I am not designing anything so although interesting at times such tests and information is of limited usefulness to me and the average user,not on these forums. I have used them when I wondered which lion batteries to buy, and once was surprised at how well some Trustfire 18650 had performed.

I realize that many here have forgotten more about batteries and light than I will ever know. But I can determine how much something costs, how it performs, and if it will last long enough to be cost effective. I have not found such information here or on CPF. For that reason I think that some of the attitudes regarding batteries are not reasonable or helpful.

I very much hope 2015 will bring you and yours blessings and prosperity.
Regards,
Jerry

 

[chillinn]

That was a definite case with the older Energizer cells, newer ones are good for a couple months at least, i haven't tested their charge retention yet mostly because they get used.

Unfair of me to joke about Energizers. Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. They were deader than dead. One charged up with zero problem and worked immediately, the other gave an error on my eneloop charger, would not take charge. But I just got a NiteCore D4, and last night I was reading stuff (to resurrect old depleted NiMH, use high current charge), wanted to try it... and the one that wasn't working charged up and works. These don't hold capacity sitting more than 36 hours, but they work fine in my red Gerber Ultra Tasklight... I think the charge slips away before the light can even use it all LOL. However, they were sitting in a box for 10 years, and I used the Hell out of them back then... for flash photography (until I found I prefer to take pictures in the dark without flash by pushing fast film and using long aperture times-- I cannot figure out how to take pictures in the dark with a digital camera). Anyway... just kidding, Energizer! (But we'd all really like a 3v Li primary AAA, please!)

 

[MidnightDistortions]

Unfair of me to joke about Energizers. Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. They were deader than dead. One charged up with zero problem and worked immediately, the other gave an error on my eneloop charger, would not take charge. But I just got a NiteCore D4, and last night I was reading stuff (to resurrect old depleted NiMH, use high current charge), wanted to try it... and the one that wasn't working charged up and works. These don't hold capacity sitting more than 36 hours, but they work fine in my red Gerber Ultra Tasklight... I think the charge slips away before the light can even use it all LOL. However, they were sitting in a box for 10 years, and I used the Hell out of them back then... for flash photography (until I found I prefer to take pictures in the dark without flash by pushing fast film and using long aperture times-- I cannot figure out how to take pictures in the dark with a digital camera). Anyway... just kidding, Energizer! (But we'd all really like a 3v Li primary AAA, please!)

Yeah i get the same problem with my older Energizers as well.. at least the 2500mAh ones. My dad has some 2000mah ones that still work pretty good. Have to check to see if they hold their charge though.

 

[chillinn]

Yeah i get the same problem with my older Energizers as well.. at least the 2500mAh ones. My dad has some 2000mah ones that still work pretty good. Have to check to see if they hold their charge though.

Just FYI, the one that worked immediately (i.e. charged up as if 10 years never happened) was a 2500mAh. The one I just resurrected last night is a 2300mAh. But I have no way to know actual capacity until there's enough $$ for an analyzer.

 

[Grijon]

Hi Grihhon,
I did not take it in a negative way. No problems, and we are just trying to learn explore and enjoy the hobby, which is useful, and fun at times,

Glad to hear and thank you very much!

I agree my test is not significant from the point of statistics. It was not intended to be. However, it does show that on that day with those lights and batteries the Tenergys outperformed the Eneloops. That cannot be reasonably disputed, and was in response to comments that the Tenergys might do well when freshly charged, but in a week or a month they would be discharged to a much larger extent than Eneloops. That has proven to be incorrect in my own trials of several lights, AA and AAA, and with different batteries. Such tests do in fact show something about the batteries. Not to a designer, but to a person wondering what to buy to get the best bang for the buck. To a newby who asks what to buy in batteries for his lights it is not so simple to say that everything except Eneloops are junk. I dispute that with some information from some tests that give info as to how long will a certain battery lasts in my flashlights. At the same price I would probably buy Eneloops, and have plenty, but they have priced themselves out of my market until I can determine that they are worth twice or more than Tenergys which have performed better for me. I have a couple more batteries that have not been charged for almost two months, and I will run my unscientific tests on them when they sit idle a bit longer.

Well said; with this explanation I fully understand what you did and why - and I agree completely!

I realize that one can do all sorts of experiments that are very useful. I very much appreciate those efforts and find the interesting. However, some of us, are not so interested in at what point a battery reaches 50% of capacity at 1 amp as we are in what they cost and how they perform in our lights. That is my own focus. I am not designing anything so although interesting at times such tests and information is of limited usefulness to me and the average user,not on these forums. I have used them when I wondered which lion batteries to buy, and once was surprised at how well some Trustfire 18650 had performed.

I realize that many here have forgotten more about batteries and light than I will ever know. But I can determine how much something costs, how it performs, and if it will last long enough to be cost effective. I have not found such information here or on CPF. For that reason I think that some of the attitudes regarding batteries are not reasonable or helpful.

I very much hope 2015 will bring you and yours blessings and prosperity.
Regards,
Jerry

I understand some more, ha ha! Again well said, sir, and I thank you and return the well wishes!

 

[JerryM]

Hi chillinn,
Quote
Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. end quote

Ain't it strange that some things can remain out of sight-out of mind for a long time, and when/if you discard it you discover you need it badly within the next week?? But then it is gone.

 

[ChibiM]

The good thing about eneloops, is that you don`t even have to test them.. you just simply know they will work well!
no discussions necessary, no hours of waiting.. Just take them when you need them, and they will work.


Not saying that tenergy are bad cells.. I never had them.. and honestly, I would like to try them out (because you like them so much). But they just don`t look as good as eneloops :thumbsup: (which might not be of importance to some)

and maybe someone should send CPF member HKJ some tenergy cells for testing.
as well as CPF member PowerMeUp for some heavy cycle testing.

 

[JerryM]

The good thing about eneloops, is that you don`t even have to test them.. you just simply know they will work well!
no discussions necessary, no hours of waiting.. Just take them when you need them, and they will work.


Not saying that tenergy are bad cells.. I never had them.. and honestly, I would like to try them out (because you like them so much). But they just don`t look as good as eneloops :thumbsup: (which might not be of importance to some)

and maybe someone should send CPF member HKJ some tenergy cells for testing.
as well as CPF member PowerMeUp for some heavy cycle testing.

I don't dispute that, however, there is an implication that it is not true for other brands. You admit you have not used Tenergy. How then can you say they are inferior?
I do not really have a dog in this fight, but since the price of Eneloops is so high compared to Tenergy, for instance, it is reasonable to determine if they are that much better. In my unscientific tests they are not. I did not charge the batteries I used, but let them deplete as they would. As to liking Tenergys, I had never heard of them until somone asked what was the best AA/AAA batteries for the buck. I checked prices and thought that eneloops, at $3-$4 each vs Tenergy at $1.68-$1.75 each, had about priced themselves out of many folks market, at least mine if you are looking for the "best bang for the buck.". I wonder how one can give the best advice if he has never tried other brands that are less expensive. Who stores their batteries for a year and does not recharge them before use?

Years ago my ME prof made the statement "The answer to an engineering problem is not efficiency, but dollars and cents." That was before NASA and that might not always be true. However, if you cannot afford the best efficency you must make compromises.

I wish that instead of bad mouthing everything except eneloops you who have a greater knowledge than I do would do a run test with some other brands than eneloop (include eneloop) and prove with tests how other brands perform in specific lights and how long they put out enough light to be useful under most circumstances.

I do not have experience regarding how slowly various brands of batteries self discharge. Does anyone here have such data? It would be helpful. It is of little importance to me if an eneloop will remain charged for 5 years and be usable. I don't have so many batteries that charging them after a month or more is a problem.
So I would challenge (a friendly challenge) anyone here to make some comparisons as to length of time since charged and run times, and compare the prices of Tenergy (or other brands) vs eneloops and show that eneloops are worth the difference at current prices. I realize it would take months to do such, but it won't happen without "the first step." Isn't that the kind of thing one does for fun?

Maybe then one can say anything but eneloop is junk, but so far no one had proven such. "Saying a thing don't make it true."
One could do curves showing how long it takes for a XX month old to reach X % of charge.

Best Regards,
Jerry

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I'd definitely like to see some Tenergy's go through the same torture tests we've seen from the gen1 vs gen4 Eneloops, and Japanese vs Chinese Eneloop testing. Even if they only perform half as well, maybe they're worth the price.

 

[JerryM]

I realize that it might not ever be high enough on the priority list to do, but I would too. I want to reiterate that the only interest I have in Tenergy is whether or not it is cost effective compared to other brands.I certainly have no quarrel with anyone wanting what they perceive as best. I do have a couple more batteries, eneloop and Tenergy, that I charged and set aside for a more than one month comparison. Around the 21st I think I will see how they stack up. I have the impression that the eneloop holds its charge better than the Tenergy Premium, but even though it has a higher voltage it did not run as long.
I bought some Tenergy Centuras to see how they will last, but have not had them long enough to find out.

I am not necessarily sold on Tenergys to the exclusion of other brands. It just happens to have been mentioned in a question as to Tenergy vs Eneloop considering the cost of each. So far, however, the results have been good with them.

I am wondering what "torture tests" you are referencing? Maybe heat and cold and time?

Thanks for the reply.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I do have a couple more batteries, eneloop and Tenergy, that I charged and set aside for a more than one month comparison. Around the 21st I think I will see how they stack up. I have the impression that the eneloop holds its charge better than the Tenergy Premium, but even though it has a higher voltage it did not run as long.

Tenergy Premiums are not low-self-discharge, so Eneloops will definitely hold their charge much better over the long-run. Most non low-self-discharge cells can hold a decent charge for about 6 months, but after that they probably won't have much left. Extremely high capacity cells might hold a charge for only a month or two.

Tenergy Centuras are their LSD brand. I have a couple of their 9 volt Centuras. They seem like decent batteries, but we'll see if they still hold up in a few years. My 8.5 year old Eneloops still have almost all their original capacity, have excellent LSD, and can still be used in high-drain devices. Every other non-Eneloop I've owned has degraded to only handling low-drain devices by that time.

I am wondering what "torture tests" you are referencing? Maybe heat and cold and time?

No, look for the threads on gen 1 vs gen 4, and Japanese vs Chinese Enloops. They were high drain / high charge full cycles done to the cells, to see how many cycles they would last and what happens to their capacity. Obviously they came nowhere close to their rated number of cycles (which I think is based on partial discharges and charges, and at a lower charge/discharge rate), but the gen4 did seem to have about twice the cycles as gen1, so the "2100 cycles" vs "1000 cycles" seems accurate (as a ratio), at least for the Japanese cells.