Huge Breakthrough in Battery technology - this will be a Game Changer

[xxo]

At the risk of a further shift in topic, in the US it is only 33% - certainly not most. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
Not sure if you're referring to any particular country or worldwide?

You are right, in the last few years natural gas has caught up with coal in the US due to heavy regulations on coal and cheap plentiful natural gas thanks to fracking. That's still 66% of the electricity generated in the USA from burning coal and natural gas.

 

[Hop]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the huge potential for electrically-powered commercial aircraft. We had a solar-powered airplane land in Dayton, Ohio last week as a planned stop-over on its globe circling flight... at night! I hope they didn't "cheat" by charging the batteries overnight in the hanger! Better battery chemistry is sorely needed, and it will be exploited, not suppressed. And of course battery-powered quad-copters and hex-copters are all the rage now. I expect one big enough to carry a human pilot is not too far down the road. As others have noted, we do not yet have the infrastructure in place to support massive use of electric cars, electric buses, or electric airplanes. Electric trains running off diesel motor generators are old technology, but imagine replacing the diesel engines with a battery bank. Or how about cargo ships operating from batteries. Submarines led the way on this, but recharging with diesel engines or carrying your own nuclear reactor on board is hardly a commercially viable enterprise. Point is: better batteries open up more markets.

On pumping water from below the dam to the top of the dam at night: the water head is already there, so why not replenish it at night when demand is low for use during the day when demand is high. This is actually one of the most efficient ways to "store" excess electricity. Super-heated steam stored in underground caverns is another.

Dayton is the home of invention (the Wright brothers designed and built their airplanes here) so I expect big things to happen "real soon now".

Hop

 

[jal]

In the US, coal is dying. Solar hit cost-parity in parts of the country this year (and is expected to do so worldwide next year).

There is a huge amount of work to do - you don't swap energy plants like underwear; as mentioned, storage, ah, "needs work"; and I expect the coal operators to ramp up their political and PR efforts even further than they have in hopes of milking a few more cents out of their investments. But the future is pretty clear.

Circling back to something vaguely on topic, I'm trying to imagine lights with ~5x capacity and the claimed 33x potential discharge rates of lion. Who wants to drive triple XHP70s in a CR123 sized light? Or perhaps the more relevant question, who wants to extinguish the person with the light after they burst into flames?

 

[Lumencrazy]

In the US, coal is dying. Solar hit cost-parity in parts of the country this year (and is expected to do so worldwide next year).

There is a huge amount of work to do - you don't swap energy plants like underwear; as mentioned, storage, ah, "needs work"; and I expect the coal operators to ramp up their political and PR efforts even further than they have in hopes of milking a few more cents out of their investments. But the future is pretty clear.

Circling back to something vaguely on topic, I'm trying to imagine lights with ~5x capacity and the claimed 33x potential discharge rates of lion. Who wants to drive triple XHP70s in a CR123 sized light? Or perhaps the more relevant question, who wants to extinguish the person with the light after they burst into flames?

You swap your underwear? With who?

 

[cogwheel]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the huge potential for electrically-powered commercial aircraft. We had a solar-powered airplane land in Dayton, Ohio last week as a planned stop-over on its globe circling flight... at night! I hope they didn't "cheat" by charging the batteries overnight in the hanger! Better battery chemistry is sorely needed, and it will be exploited, not suppressed. And of course battery-powered quad-copters and hex-copters are all the rage now. I expect one big enough to carry a human pilot is not too far down the road. As others have noted, we do not yet have the infrastructure in place to support massive use of electric cars, electric buses, or electric airplanes. Electric trains running off diesel motor generators are old technology, but imagine replacing the diesel engines with a battery bank. Or how about cargo ships operating from batteries. Submarines led the way on this, but recharging with diesel engines or carrying your own nuclear reactor on board is hardly a commercially viable enterprise. Point is: better batteries open up more markets.

Electrically-powered commercial aircraft are almost definitely never going to happen, barring some extreme leap in physics. Remember, unlike cars, trucks, trains, and boats, aircraft have to lift their energy source, so energy density is critical. It's possible to make a short hop no cargo aircraft run on batteries and/or solar power, but to do something useful you need a lot of energy density in your energy storage medium, and liquid hydrocarbons are orders of magnitude better than batteries. Also, keep in mind that today's quadcopter drones have flight endurance times measured in minutes with payloads of a couple pounds at most.

That's not a significant problem, since (at least in the US) aircraft use only about 3% of the oil consumed each year. In the case where we've eliminated most of the rest of that consumption, continuing to run aircraft on hydrocarbon fuels isn't an environmental disaster.

Battery-powered trains are theoretically possible, but it'd be far more efficient to electrify the tracks instead of hauling around tons upon tons of batteries (that's tons upon tons of cargo you aren't hauling!), and then having to spend hours to days charging them.

As for ships, you've got similar issues to trains with the weight and volume of batteries. I think you underestimate how much power a big cargo ship's engine puts out. We're talking about 7MW to 70MW 2-stroke diesel engines, and these things are sailing for weeks at a time. Can you visualize a gigawatt-hour of batteries? How about charging them? It's more likely that an electrified cargo ship would use primary cells instead of rechargeable cells due to energy density, using a chemistry like aluminum-air and just recycling the batteries after every trip.

 

[vadimax]

I vote for nuclear plant on every vehicle!

 

[HKJ]

As for ships, you've got similar issues to trains with the weight and volume of batteries.

Electrically powered ships are already in commercial use: http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/norled-zerocat-electric-powered-ferry/

The idea is short trips with frequent recharges. As for cargo ships, much more battery development is needed.

 

[jal]

You swap your underwear? With who?

They don't do swap meets where you are?

 

[matrixshaman]

Graphene batteries are now a reality and readily available - at least for RC hobby devices: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/turnigy-graphene.html

Just wish someone would start making some 16340 and 18650 sizes. Looking at one of the 14.8 volt 6000 mah 130C burst capable batteries - about 5" x 2" x1" I think I could easily start my full size V8 with that That is a battery capable of 780 Amps burst and if I recall about 390 Amps continuous.

Also look at this article : http://www.mobilegeeks.com/article/can-graphene-18-ways-graphene-will-change-technology/

 

[matrixshaman]

Hope it works out I am somewhat skeptical of stuff like this til I see it in the real world. Seems odd that a "small Spanish company" has this and not Elon Musk.

Tesla announced something recently about doubling the capacity of their batteries and I'd bet this has to do with using Graphene in them.

 

[matrixshaman]

Electronics manufactures will not be happy , they are counting on the built in battery dying so you have to buy a new device every few years.

John.

I'd say the free market will take care of that problem - be the first to come up with a longer lasting and quicker charging battery and your competition will fall away.

 

[matrixshaman]

And dozens of other amazing batteries on the way: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130...in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air
Many of these are in research at MIT, Stanford U. and so on. Some have amazing specs. Like 200,000 charge/discharge cycles, charging in 3 minutes for an electric car battery and lots of incredible things on the way in battery tech.

 

[StorminMatt]

More of that: any electric car indirectly produces more CO² than any combustion engine driven one of an equal power.

Not always true. Your typical automotive engine is at best about 30% efficient. Power plants are anywhere from 40-60% efficient. Coal plants are at the low end of this range, and the burning of coal produces LOTS of CO2 compared to the burning of gasoline. So if electricity is generated by burning coal, LOTS more CO2 is generated from electric cars than gasoline powered cars, particularly when electrical losses (generators, lines, transformers, batteries, inverters, motors, etc) are considered. About the only advantage to driving an electric car in areas where power is generated from coal would be the fact that you are essentially relying on an abundant, domestically produced fuel rather than imported oil. On the other hand, combined cycle natural gas plants can be 60% efficient - about twice as efficient as automotive engines. And natural gas produces LOTS less CO2 per unit energy than gasoline. So if lots of power in your area is generated from natural gas, electric cars would have a smaller carbon footprint than gasoline powered cars.

 

[magellan]

These stories come up about once a year. Nothing ever comes of it. I can't remember what the last one was. I hope I'm wrong one of these days though.

I was thinking the same thing. You read about some new development in a lab somewhere that sounds really great, but then nothing ever seems to come of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but although a number of better battery technologies are currently being researched and developed that could be game changing, nothing is really ready for prime time right now. I see statements of about actual consumer products being about 5-10 years away, but a lot can happen in that time. The technology that seems most promising right now probably won't be the one in ten years that's in use.

 

[snakebite]

this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-snI8u46XA

is full of misinformation.
those are cheap bak and dlg cells.
yet he called them panasonics.
lots of hype and bs to attract clueless investors?

 

[magellan]

Here's another video on graphene batteries:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8A5UPTWno4c

 

[kaichu dento]

Electronics manufactures will not be happy , they are counting on the built in battery dying so you have to buy a new device every few years.

Another cynical post grouping others into a single category of business model, in order to accomplish what?

Some electronics manufacturers with little imagination will scrabble to do as you've unimaginatively suggested, while others will look for ways to embrace the new technologies. Same as it ever was...

 

[kaichu dento]

These stories come up about once a year. Nothing ever comes of it. I can't remember what the last one was. I hope I'm wrong one of these days though.

Everyone here hoping for it to finally happen! No breath being held on my part, but when/if it happens, new battery purchases in order!

 

[kaichu dento]

A self-labeled opinion piece - which happens to link off to an opinion piece of the opposite viewpoint.

Thanks for posting the link. I prefer to read on both sides of an argument before forming an opinion and I'll be doing much more before eventually forming a personal point of view.

Of course by then the goalposts will probably have been moved again. :sigh:

 

[binary visions]

Since most electricity is generated by burning coal, most electric cars are in effect, coal powered.

My issue with this is that it's a very short-sighted view of the reason electric cars are important.

In order for electric cars to make sense, a few things need to happen: manufacturing/materials technologies need to be cost-effective and efficient enough to drive down the price and waste in producing them, charging infrastructure needs to be plentiful/distributed enough to make charging them easy, and the power-generation behind that electricity needs to be clean.

Unfortunately, those things are all kind of leaning on each other. People won't mass-adopt electric cars until they can feel comfortable driving them without being paranoid they'll run out of charge. Material/manufacturing gets driven down by adoption and refinement, so things don't get cheaper until people start buying. Investment in infrastructure doesn't really happen until more cars are on the road. Etc.

All of this is to say that adoption of electric cars makes sense even if the technology behind it is dirty. Electric cars are good because they kill off a dependency on any one specific type of fuel, and fundamental improvements in the grid or power technologies simultaneously improve improve every vehicle in the grid (vs. the very long tail of people buying new cars and getting rid of old ones). This means pushing the industry forward is positive even when they're not as efficient as a gasoline counterpart. We've had more than a hundred years to improve gasoline engines - EVs just need some time to catch up.