Laser Safety Question

SkOrPn

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@ 5-6', I think you'll find a DPSS green laser over 5mw too brilliant to use as a sighting device, I tried some time ago with a bullet style I'd made for guns and the green was way too bright to focus on unless a very dark target was used. I switched it over to a 15mw red and was much easier to use at those distances. Just my experience.
Yeah, agreed, that is why I am using a painted black cardboard draped over my carpet target. I tried with a red, but my build (bullet style 5mw cat toy + Garrity LED Flashlight) did not come out straight, lol. I think I could use a high quality laser further out from the crossbow, say 35 yards, but then I am putting a LOT of faith into the manufacturer of the laser and would not trust a cheap laser being perfectly straight at those distances. Plus the instructions from the crossbow guys specifically told me 5 feet from the end of my crossbow. Hence why the up close need, and a focusable model laser (SD301). At 5 feet it should be dead on or only 1-2 mm off at most. The Aim Sports arrow sighting tool, is a bullet style you screw into your arrows and I can use it at 35 yards as they make sure the beam is perfectly straight for obvious reasons. However, this can not be used as a pointer for astronomy. I want double use out of it and a good host for future upgrading purposes.

The IR concern is almost enough for me to just not do this at all. Which is why I want to know if IR filtering glued into a SD301 or a DIY module (if I decide to build my own again) would negate the concern, or negate at least 90% of the concern, lol...

I wouldn't mind a more powerful model, but again I need something functional and feel a more powerful model would be a waste of money for my purpose. I asked Tmack what he would charge for a pen or tube style with my specs, but he has not contacted me.
 
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Tmack

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The levels of ir in these pens isn't enough to be worried about. Just treat it with respect like a laser of any power and you'll be fine. It's easy to get spooked by the it, but you should be careful ir or not. :)

Sorry for the delay answer but I really don't go that small. I can build you a 501b host, but it wouldn't meet your criteria. The last pen I built to sell ended up costing me money, so I tend to just recommend a place to buy a decent one, or in your case, recommend parts. :)
 

SkOrPn

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The levels of ir in these pens isn't enough to be worried about. Just treat it with respect like a laser of any power and you'll be fine. It's easy to get spooked by the it, but you should be careful ir or not. :)

Sorry for the delay answer but I really don't go that small. I can build you a 501b host, but it wouldn't meet your criteria. The last pen I built to sell ended up costing me money, so I tend to just recommend a place to buy a decent one, or in your case, recommend parts. :)
Hmm, no thank you buttons here at CPF? Thank you Tmack for the reply. Do you know if that SD301 you recommended has a pot on the driver board? If so, can it be turned down in output or is it already as low as possible on these models? I could drill a nice access hole directly above the pot if need be and cap it with a easily removable sticker or small foam rubber ear plug. Just an idea...
 

Tmack

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I really wouldn't even turn down the pot on those. I've tweaked them both up and down resulting in either death, or nothing at all. You will not notice the difference either way. M
 

SkOrPn

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I really wouldn't even turn down the pot on those. I've tweaked them both up and down resulting in either death, or nothing at all. You will not notice the difference either way. M
Ahh, OK. Thanks again Tmack.
 

Tmack

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Anytime my friend :)

Yeah you'd have to cut it in half, or double it to really notice, and the driver will not allow you to adjust that far by potentiometer.
Best to leave it be. It'll be best for the module, and no headache for you.
 

TEEJ

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BTW - If you get a custom high powered laser from Tmack, just use that instead of the cross bow on the deer, etc, and call it a day.

:D
 

SkOrPn

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BTW - If you get a custom high powered laser from Tmack, just use that instead of the cross bow on the deer, etc, and call it a day.

:D
lmao, then all I have to do is go pick up his unconscious body after he hits the tree at 30 mph? Haha, good one...
 

TEEJ

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lmao, then all I have to do is go pick up his unconscious body after he hits the tree at 30 mph? Haha, good one...

When you get good at it...they run into a mesquite and start it smoking.

:)
 

blah9

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Thank you guys for all the knowledge you're providing. I'm interested in purchasing a powerful laser one day, but it's hard for me to justify it at this point. One day I'll probably spring for one though!
 

ThirstyTurtle

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Here's some photos of my new eBay laser. COULD NOT be happier with the product for $18 shipped. I don't see how they make money considering it also came with a (crappy) 18650 and charger.

2u9agyqe.jpg


eqehapaz.jpg


eme7u2yj.jpg
 

TEEJ

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Usually they can hit that price point by cutting all QA/QC steps and measures. That means the longevity and durability, IR filters, etc, are what suffer. You can of course luck out, or, have solder joints fail, diodes shift or overheat, get unwanted IR exposure, etc. (Different wavelengths can have different issues for example)
 

ThirstyTurtle

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Usually they can hit that price point by cutting all QA/QC steps and measures. That means the longevity and durability, IR filters, etc, are what suffer. You can of course luck out, or, have solder joints fail, diodes shift or overheat, get unwanted IR exposure, etc. (Different wavelengths can have different issues for example)

10-4, as much fun as this is, I can see a "real" laser in my future.
 

SkOrPn

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10-4, as much fun as this is, I can see a "real" laser in my future.
LOL, that's how they get you hooked on it...

WHY THAT LASER IS CHEAP!

But it really is not cheap and here's why. A 5th of these products nowadays come from China, the world's largest manufacturing entity. They make a 5th of all products worldwide and have done so without having rules and regulations or equal opportunity employment. In Fact, most experts consider the labour force there to be that of slave labor (which is starting to change). In order to keep the US afloat we even pay all the transportation costs for the ships to run non-stop 24/7/365 so cost of shipping for the Chinese is pretty much non existent, or was for a while anyway. However, as the US continues to collapse so will the Chinese manufacturing system. All their labourers, like any modern rising nation are beginning to demand equal rights, incentives, pay raises, health benefits etc (no different than the laborers did in the last 60 years in US or Europe). Not to mention that now China is beginning to create Taxes on manufacturing companies (historically been non-existent), Safety regulations are being created (costs manufacturers more money), and environmental regulations (costs money) are all starting to be implemented in China and other slave labour countries. As these costs rise (and oil diminishes) for manufacturing companies, so will the costs of the products (exactly what happened in the US). As oil (OIL, a not so infinite resource is responsible for EVERYTHING we consume, food, clothes, products we buy etc, 100% of it all (unless you buy something from a local individual who is 100% off-grid and doing everything the old school 1800's way lol. There is not one product that you can think of that is not here all thanks to a diminishing resource called oil) is here because of a gooey black substance we call black gold. OIL production has steadily declined since the mid 90's when peak oil production was hit. No matter how you look at it, as oil declines and population rises and thus consuming rises etc, there can be only one outcome. Historically China has paid much less for its oil than the rest of the world. I won't get into why this was (long story) but just now in 2014 china is starting to pay the same as the rest of us. By 2015-17 or so prices of products from China will begin to be on par with the majority of the rest of the manufacturing countries. Once this happens, the only countries that will win the manufacturing wars will be the ones that have more resources, people willing to work for less and happy to be poor, and the ones that has the highest quality products (sound familiar? I just described the USA to a T about 60-70 years ago).

So moral of the story is be happy its cheap now, because it won't be for long. Besides, its only your perspective that its cheap. I retired a few years ago and before I did I looked at something like this as cheap and affordable as well. My custom built water cooled computer cost me about 5 grand to build, because I could, and my BMW, Porsche, Lexus and 3/4 ton Dodge V10 PU were all a waste of good money as far as I am concerned, however, now I see all this as being expensive in the long run. If OIL was infinite, that exact same laser in a world with unlimited resources (oil, natural gas and coal) would actually be $1.80, not an insane $18 dollars. The only thing that would stand in the way of your sales would be competition, not costs of manufacturing or transportation. Competition always seems to drive down costs. Which is why in the 1950's you could buy a Hot Dog in NY for 5 cents (the bread, the meat and the condiments were all made just outside the city on local farms), walk 200 feet and do it again with another vendor. If the first vendor was 6 cents, and the second vendor was 5 cents, then 200 feet more distance (today that 200 feet more to walk is now thousands of miles on the other side of the Pacific) was not to much to ask for a penny of savings. Back then we thought oil was a unlimited resource thus oil companies asked very little money for it (and thus the world grew by 5 billion people because manufacturing became easy and cheap), we had no regulations, no safety regulations, no multiple high taxes to pay, no such concepts as minimum wages to pay, health benefits to pay, etc etc, thus everything was cheaper. Not to mention much less people consuming in the beginning. Ford did not have to deal with a million car recalls per year due to safety issues, there were no seatbelts, or air bags for them to spend countless money developing, etc etc. It was the American who started suing companies for wrongful death claims when a family member was killed in a car accident because it lacked safety features. Insurance was for the upper middle class only and not mandatory for everyone. You are just kinda lucky that you live at the tail end of a time when people are paid more on average than all of the rest of human history. 100 years ago and or 50 years from now (when all scientists say oil will be 100% consumed at today's consumption rate), $18 would be more like an entire months pay and you just barely got by if you were very good at managing it. That is not a cheap product. Just the sheer amount of combined effort to get that laser to you is mind boggling and without resources like OIL it can not happen.

Here in the US a large company (or even a small one for that matter) could not manufacture that laser for anything less than 50-80 bucks, or more, and even then companies would barely profit or break even with everything they have to pay out just to get it to you. Not to mention no one here in the US cares about their own people any more, all we want is cheaper products (the American Entitlement mindset), and more in the wallet to buy with (the majority anyway) and to raise the quality of life in another country we don't even live in, and to heck with the unemployed going homeless or already homeless American. If we truly cared about our own people, we would not be buying Chinese stuff at all, myself included. So the $18 laser will win the sales race over the $180 laser 80% of the time (probably an understatement lol). If the Chinese had the same safety regulations in place, their laser would have the same quality built into it, same IR filters, etc and would cost near the same as buying it from an American manufacturer, if not more (considering transportation costs across the Ocean).

Do you remember when Wal-Mart first came out? What was their initial selling point? "Made in America" signs were hanging every where in the stores. Tags on products rarely said Made in China back then. That is because our prices were just as low, our quality even better, we had pride in buying only American made products (everyone back then wanted to know where it was made and gawked at anything not made here in the US), and we did not have so many rules and regulations in place hindering such products. Along with an endless, or what seemed like an endless supply of very cheap OIL (which now manufactures everything) freely flowing out of our very own land, mostly in Texas, the South and the Midwest... Need I say more?

Anyway sorry for the rant but, its not cheaper because they cut corners (that's a tiny minuscule aspect of it, they cut corners because they can and we allow it), its cheaper because America and other countries allow it to be cheaper PERIOD. If we would charge more for access to the American and European buying forces, maybe prices/competition would be the same and then American companies could start to compete again. However, put simply, we need at VERY minimum three or four times more oil for the exact same price we pay now to even consider becoming a manufacturing powerhouse again. Its just too late for all that because all that OIL resource that we need has long been found and consumed... 1500 wells go dry everyday and only a few go up in their place. There's only a little bit left and all that is the more difficult, much more expensive stuff to get at.

Please forgive this post but that is why that laser is $18 and it is NOT cheap by a long stretch, it's costing you is other ways that you do not recognize yet. Fact is an American family is starving somewhere because we buy Chinese products, and then the Feds uses our taxes and raise more taxes to try and feed that family "WE" put there in the first place... That is not how it is supposed to work, people are supposed to buy stuff from their local neighbors and local farmers and local manufacturers. But we don't... So they died out, their equipment rusting away, warehouses closed down, and the people are now on welfare or food stamps, and the Feds trillions of dollars in debt trying to pay for it all... IMO that Chinese made item is the most expensive product in world history, buying anything from anyone other than something that was engineered, built from the ground up here in the USA (or your local community, where ever that may be) will cost us dearly in the long run.

Don't feel guilty though, because the fact is unless everyone stands up and does what is right, and at the same time, nothing will change. I am a billion percent certain we Americans (the majority anyway) will not see what has hit us until it has long occurred and WAY too late to try and change it. Because it already has and very few seen it coming. Thus why should YOU (or I) worry about it? Its a done deal, so just enjoy the cheap benefits while it lasts, and prepare to die sooner rather than later. The world is going back to a 2 billion human population by the end of this century and nothing is going to stop it... Not unless we find a unlimited cheap replacement for OIL (That's not going to happen) or another Planet to live on with the same resources waiting to be consumed (That's not going to happen either, lol).

That is how they made money off the $18 laser! Besides, they left out the IR Filter because they also manufacture the IR Safety Glasses as well...

The End!
 

TEEJ

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That is a rather centric view point of course, as, w/o the above process you describe, the Chinese, etc, would not evolve to have regulations and fair work practices, etc....and eventually level the playing field, once again..Its part of that rising tide raising all boats thing.

:D

For example, remember when people talked about "cheap Japanese crap"?

Then, Japanese companies had a young work force, no one had retired, and, GM, etc, had more people on pensions than in the factories to support, etc...and, then, Japan caught up, improved the quality and so forth, and now, many of their products are MORE expensive than US products, and they brought manufacturing to the US to reduce costs/increase profits.

China is now where Japan had been, and Korea is in the throes of a similar transition, etc.


The end result, if allowed to follow its natural course, will be as you described, in that the 3rd world will move to the 2nd, and the 2nd will move to the 1st, and so forth...and, eventually, its cheaper to buy local, for all concerned.


Its unrealistic to expect a family that can barely pay their bills to pay 10x more for something they need, its just not going to happen at a proportion that would matter enough to stop the pattern. People shop by price more than any other parameter. Sure, quality, etc, come into play...but for the most part, they start with a budget, and then shop within it.


The pattern, repeated throughout history, is that a new entity undercuts the established entities to gain a toe hold and market share, then, grows INTO one of the established entities, so that THEY can be under cut by who ever's the new guy on the block at that time.


A buddy of mine is a staunch buy American proponent (I try to as well, etc...), and, we were out of ammo, and, he wanted to go to Walmart because their .223 and 9 mm prices were the lowest he found. While there, I was joking about the American Flags for sale, and that they were all probably made in China. They had tons of flags for sale. I saw one's for $4, and for $40, etc, (Same size). I saw the expensive ones were made in the USA...BUT - they HAD USA made flags, so, I felt COMPELLED to pay 10x more for the same sized flag because it was made in the USA....I had to put my money where my mouth was essentially.


Could I afford to do that for every purchase I made, always? Probably not...but the FLAG seemed to scream out for justice in that issue at least.

:D
 

hikingman

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I appreciate all the safety info here, because I'll soon be receiving a 3 watt 445nm from Tmack, and I still have lots to learn. Possibly should have gone for just a green pointer, what what the hell. I wanted to be able to light my campfires without matches anymore :laughing: Before doing that I will get an Eagle Pair for sure. And have any friends look the other way.

But seriously, there was all the joking about knocking a deer out, etc., but if I were in Montana in back country and came upon a grizzly (as I did some 40 years ago, thankfully without incident). This could be a true protective device, yes - no? I'm really curious about that.

But even more important, this aspect of reflections is something I didn't really think about. How far away is a pair of eyes safe from harm? Either direct or reflective? It has been thoughtfully pointed out that reflective surfaces can be deceivingly everywhere. So you aim it at a big pine tree for just a moment and hit a nail!

Just for conversation sake, say you DO hit a reflective surface that you didn't see (and with hopefully no one else around). How far away does that have to be to be safe (in case it happens to come square back at you)? EDIT: I realize this is a difficult question and maybe the answer is already obvious, but given that it seems to be OK to aim at non reflective objects in the outdoors, I'd like an idea where the distance would have to be for an unseen reflective surface not wiping your eyes out permanently if it just so happened to reflect right back to you. Maybe chances of that are slim, but based on the lasers power, is there a rule of thumb?

Dave
 
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Tmack

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No rule of thumb. So many variables. How reflective, what percent of the power are you getting hit with etc. Just don't let it happen is the best rule of thumb.

Oh and your baby ships tomorrow my friend :)
 

ThirstyTurtle

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qe3a3yse.jpg


Man I love those focus adapters!

Great googly moogly!

Tmack, I know your have your customs thread but do you have or have you thought about making a sales thread where you have a couple of your most popular or favorite lasers listed with prices? I think you'd sell quite a few if you had a couple favorites for people to choose from with a known price, just an idea to consider!
 
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