List Lights that use NO PWM

[jon_slider]

Here is a photo, thanks to maukka, that overlays a theoretical PWM square wave over the Zebralight SC5fc pulsed power management system

since the Zebralight pulses don't drop to zero, they are technically not true PWM, but, the Zebra is dropping to within 18% of zero.. That probably explains the long runtimes Zebras get, and technically they use Constant Current, but with a feedback loop that causes large fluctuations in power and brightness, albeit at very high speeds. Imo the Zebra definitely belongs on the List of lights with PWM or Pulsed circuitry. I personally am very disappointed, as I was tempted to buy a new High CRI Zebra, but I do not consider it to be a true NoPWM, NoPulsed power circuit..

 

[ssanasisredna]

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[TCY]

Here is a photo, thanks to maukka, that overlays a theoretical PWM square wave over the Zebralight SC5fc pulsed power management system

since the Zebralight pulses don't drop to zero, they are technically not true PWM, but, the Zebra is dropping to within 18% of zero.. That probably explains the long runtimes Zebras get, and technically they use Constant Current, but with a feedback loop that causes large fluctuations in power and brightness, albeit at very high speeds. Imo the Zebra definitely belongs on the List of lights with PWM or Pulsed circuitry. I personally am very disappointed, as I was tempted to buy a new High CRI Zebra, but I do not consider it to be a true NoPWM, NoPulsed power circuit..

I'm confused, as I remember selfbuilt's reviews claiming that all the ZL lights he tested have no PWM.

From selfbuilt's Zebralight SC600-III (XHP35, 1x18650) Review:
"As with my other Zebralight lights, I don't see any signs of pulse width modulation (PWM) on any the lower output modes. The light appears to be fully current controlled at all levels."

 

[jon_slider]

I'm confused

there is a lot more detail available if you read the other posts in this thread
selfbuilt and maukka have different perspectives and test instruments

it may also help you to read this, and this

 

[TCY]

there is a lot more detail available if you read the other posts in this thread
selfbuilt and maukka have different perspectives and test instruments

it may also help you to read this, and this

Thanks. I remember asking ZL about PWM when I saw this thread, I got their reply and totally forgot about this whole thing exists.

Here's their reply from 16/11/2016:
"Constant current regulators always use a feed back circuitry to measure the output current (that passes through the LED) and adjust the supplying power (up and down) to the LED accordingly. The action itself has (up and down) ripples. Good circuitry designs usually make the ripples so minuscule and/or fast enough, relative to the LED output, that they won't be seen by human eyes. You'll need a digital camera with a global shutter (rather than a typical rolling shutter) or a traditional film camera to detect flashlight PWMs properly."

So according to them the current ripple is supposed to be there if a constant current regulator is used.

 

[sbslider]

I nominate the manker e02 based on the manufacturer's website and the pictures above.

A couple more requested images.

 

[Pinarello]

Re: List Lights that use NO PWM, nor pulses, and are true Constant Current

Missing Surefires! What about their range of lights? I think many of us would appreciate SF testing on PWM

 

[jon_slider]

Re: List Lights that use NO PWM, nor pulses, and are true Constant Current

#107

Missing Surefires! What about their range of lights? I think many of us would appreciate SF testing on PWM

feel free to post any tests you do, include a photo please

Im just a consumer, nobody gives me free samples, but if you want to send me some lights, feel free

I post lights that I research out of personal interest, and anyone can post their own tests from their personal interests.

you can also google surefire flashlight PWM by clicking here
or add the specific model name to your search for more accurate info.

 

[ank]

Acebeam K70

Doesn't seem to use PWM but there's a strange hissing sound on the highest mode

 

[ank]

Acebeam K70

Doesn't seem to use PWM but there's a strange hissing sound on the highest mode

 

[jon_slider]

thanks for contributing ank,
selfbuilt agrees with you that the K70 does not use PWM
the whine is a known behavior, mentioned here but is not PWM caused.

 

[RCS1300]

this thread is not meant to debate whether PWM matters or not. And Im not recommending for or against PWM. Im just trying to list lights in this thread that do NOT use PWM. Basically, just the Facts.

Jon, unless you can prove otherwise I believe that virtually ALL LED flashlights that change brightness levels use PWM. I believe the standard for determining whether a flashlight design is good or bad regarding PWM is whether one can see the pulses with an unaided human eye.

The two threads you have going on this subject that categorize flashlights on PWM is very likely doing a disservice to the flashlight community as you are not categorizing these lights by whether one can see the PWM with the unaided human eye.

I could see going forward with these threads if, for each flashlight on one of these lists, you took a poll of 25 owners and users to determine whether or not they notice PWM with their unaided human eye. Otherwise, in my opinion, these lists are inaccurate and misleading and should be removed from the perceived endorsement of CPF.

 

[Modernflame]

Forgive me if this has already been stated somewhere on this thread, but I thought some clarification would be in order. Regarding Malkoff flashlights, the multimode MDC products use PWM. However, the other devices do not, as they are either single output devices or they achieve low beam by means of a resistor (i.e. current regulation).

The following Malkoff devices do not use PWM:

MDC SHO
Single mode E1, E2 variants
Maglite upgrades
M31 variants
M61 variants
M91 variants
Wild Cat
Hound Dog 18650
Hound Dog XML
Hound Dog Super

 

[DavidRZ]

Jon, unless you can prove otherwise I believe that virtually ALL LED flashlights that change brightness levels use PWM. I believe the standard for determining whether a flashlight design is good or bad regarding PWM is whether one can see the pulses with an unaided human eye.

The two threads you have going on this subject that categorize flashlights on PWM is very likely doing a disservice to the flashlight community as you are not categorizing these lights by whether one can see the PWM with the unaided human eye.

I could see going forward with these threads if, for each flashlight on one of these lists, you took a poll of 25 owners and users to determine whether or not they notice PWM with their unaided human eye. Otherwise, in my opinion, these lists are inaccurate and misleading and should be removed from the perceived endorsement of CPF.

Agreed!

 

[parametrek]

Jon, unless you can prove otherwise I believe that virtually ALL LED flashlights that change brightness levels use PWM.

What do you consider sufficient proof to change your mind? What amount is "virtually ALL" anyway? Are you counting by flashlights made or by product lines? If you are counting individual flashlights sold then maybe the majority of lights use PWM but <i>only because of the millions of SK68</i> flashlights out there. If you are counting product lines do all of the numerous fly-by-night chinese clones count as a single product or a hundred?

Constant current is not difficult to do. Extremely cheap lights will use a resistor or direct drive. Slightly nicer lights will use an AMC7135. Still nicer lights will use a buck or boost regulator. Single mode lights of course have no reason to use PWM and there are still a lot of single mode lights out there.

Of course nearly all of the extremely inexpensive generic multimode chinese lights will use PWM. You get what you pay for. But we as a community don't really care about those lights except as modding hosts.

I believe the standard for determining whether a flashlight design is good or bad regarding PWM is whether one can see the pulses with an unaided human eye.

This thread isn't about passing a good or bad judgment. Using PWM is a technical aspect. Either a light does use it for some modes or does not. I don't agree with everything about Jon's methodology but it is close enough most of the time. (Not everyone can use the dictionary definition of PWM or spend $30 to put together a system to accurately measure PWM.)

The two threads you have going on this subject that categorize flashlights on PWM is very likely doing a disservice to the flashlight community as you are not categorizing these lights by whether one can see the PWM with the unaided human eye.

So? If it shows up on a camera then it means that I can't use the light for taking pictures. That is unacceptable. I completely disagree with his assessment of Zebralight but I wouldn't consider him to be doing a "disservice."

I could see going forward with these threads if, for each flashlight on one of these lists, you took a poll of 25 owners and users to determine whether or not they notice PWM with their unaided human eye. Otherwise, in my opinion, these lists are inaccurate and misleading and should be removed from the perceived endorsement of CPF.

How does someone on the internet saying something come across as endorsement of CPF? But who am I to argue with David Martin, mayor of Stamford Connecticut. As a resident your statements are the perceived endorsement of the entire city and its governing body.

The majority of serious flashlight manufacturers don't use PWM of any kind according to their own statements. The majority of flashlights that I've bought don't use PWM. All of my lights that claim to not use PWM (90% of them) really don't have any PWM observable by eye or camera or meter.

On a related question, should I add a PWM field to my database of flashlights? It would be a LOT of work to go back and add it to the existing 1900 lights but if people feel strongly enough about it I'll do it

 

[sbslider]

x2 to what parametric said

 

[RCS1300]

Constant current is not difficult to do. Extremely cheap lights will use a resistor or direct drive. Slightly nicer lights will use an AMC7135. Still nicer lights will use a buck or boost regulator.

Of course nearly all of the extremely inexpensive generic multimode chinese lights will use PWM. You get what you pay for.

This thread isn't about passing a good or bad judgment.

In the first statement above, you just did!

Many people that want to learn about flashlights, especially before purchasing one, come to this site looking for informed information and opinions. I do. What I found are these two lists that cast doubt on the value of $400 flashlights, not inexpensive Chinese lights. And, the information on these lists was not correct!

If one wants a flashlight for photography one knows in advance that the camera slows down action and as a result, your needs are different than if one is purchasing a flashlight for personal use with the unaided eye.

These lists would be more meaningful for people considering a flashlight purchase if the lists were based on surveys of 25 CURRENT real owners and users per light on the list to confirm PWM exists or does not with the unaided eye.

 

[User 0815]

Would like to add two lights to the List:

1st. Manker T01 II NW, tested in front of oscilloscope with led - no sign exept the DS0201 itself (the force is strong in this device, see ripple on display.)

Sorry, no pic of DSO itself - due to not saving to card. None of mine.

2nd. Sunwayman V11R révolution NW
same curly line of DSO. Pic of evidence must be given later - battery went down Of course not the one in the light, the one in the camera.

Regards Peer